Immagine believing thoracle is fine but rhystic/tithe is bad. You've lost your commander opinion privileges
@xzeroxman
Ай бұрын
Exactly 😂
@thorne5072
Ай бұрын
The issue with thoracle could be resolved by banning consultation
@Coolhand118
Ай бұрын
@@thorne5072 I mean tainted pact also exist too but I assume you agree with notion that should also be banned too right? Thing is, both tainted pact and demonic consultation see no play without Thassa’s Oracle and Thassa’s oracle is still a good card even without consult or pact. You could just draw your deck somehow and win with thoracle and it’ll be seamless.
@haltone3249
Ай бұрын
@thorne5072 tainted pact, leveler, consultation, any variety of turbo self mill. The card is just not okay in any highpower to competitive level game. Hoggak is the issue, not everything supporting him
@adaubu3063
Ай бұрын
how many times have you lost to thoracle before?
@Coolhand118
Ай бұрын
Imagine thinking that a two card combo that is a renowned combo in CEDH is not bannable but two cards that taxes players for playing the game is bannable is insane. Rhystic study and Smothering tithe are good cards sure but they're not bannably good. Pay your taxes how you should.
@lydiax6527
Ай бұрын
Rhystic and Tithe banned but thoracle and the best mana accilerator unbanned? This is rage bait
@SSJKirik
Ай бұрын
As someone who completely agrees with you, let me also clarify: Rhystic Study, Smothering Tithe, Esper Sentinel, etc are all a set of cards I affectionately call the "Annoy-o-tron Suite" Decks with one will often run the others, so where you'll find Rhystic Study you'll also find Esper Sentinel. This leads to game interactions that are just a constant "You gonna pay 1?" or announcing that you're paying the 1, which ... becomes bothersome after a few games in a row of it. THIS is the biggest gripe people have with these cards, is that they all constantly require either you or your opponent to stop and clarify something - and they're all attached to things that occur regularly *each turn*, so unlike a card like Monologue Tax, you can't really completely avoid it unless you remove the card. Now, you SHOULD be removing those cards when they do come up, but games EDH rarely play out that "neatly" I've found. I don't think they're egregiously powerful or broken on their face, they're just fucking annoying.
@gnarleytarley3870
Ай бұрын
either rage bait or this guy is just really bad at magic and should learn to play before he speaks.
@Coolhand118
Ай бұрын
@@gnarleytarley3870 I’m leaning towards rage bait or his commander takes are bad because from what I hear he plays legacy and vintage so you can take it or leave it
@jamesfilyawDigginGabe
Ай бұрын
Rage bait seems likely, but it also seems likely that this is just the truly unfiltered dogshit opinion of someone who doesn't pay their taxes, and frequently feels the downside of not doing so.
@evantheilman2751
Ай бұрын
Rhystic Study is annoying, but its far less egregious than Smothering Tithe. There are several effects that say "spells your opponents cast cost 1 more", which is all Rhystic does when your opponents understand it. Few people would really call Grand Arbiter Augustin bannable, and he also has cost reduction for your own spells. Smothering Tithe is far more brutal because you can't choose to not draw a card during your turn, while you can choose to not cast a spell or to cast fewer spells on your own turn to avoid the Rhystic trigger. Tithe also interacts with forced draw effects, while basically nothing can force you to cast a spell.
@eggfinallap
Ай бұрын
The comments section is full of awful takes. P.S. what about banning Demonic Consultation? Doing so would shut down Lab Maniac and Oracle while only having to ban one card not two. It's also not like anyone plays DC the way it was intended. (Sadly there is no templating change feasible that can require the player to name a card they can reasonably hit.)
@hexennacht.
Ай бұрын
If taxing enchantments annoy you this much there are THOUSANDS of ways to remove them. Awful take, none of these cards deserve bans, and half of the current banned cards need unbanning.
@pokepersonzach8574
Ай бұрын
W take right here, only cards on the ban list should be ones that are game ruining like Shaharazad and balance…prime time and griselbrand and other such powerhouses shouldn’t be banned…there’s always going to be a next most powerful thing.
@jacobcooper7257
Ай бұрын
Rhystic and Tithe just die to removal. In a 4 or sometimes 5 player game, it will likely be removed quickly. I totally get dockside and crypt being bonkers, I play dockside to loop in combos, and crypt for the fast start it can provide, and oracle can get outta here. Oracle is kinda dumb and is definitely the most “ban worthy” out of these five. I agree with the point regarding another fast combo taking its place, but that has more to do with the play patterns of “cEDH” and those play circles. As for the point about crypt being pricey it 100% is overpriced. Cool beans if you’re a collector, but just proxy it. Nobody is gonna cry if you proxy a couple pricey cards for your deck.
@afterburn819
Ай бұрын
the thing with taxing pieces like Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Study is that other people are greedy and don't want to pay the tax when they should be. Commander players just want their cake and eat it too which is why cards like these get out of hand. In one of my pods my friend always tells me he is never paying the tax when I have any of those pieces out and I just end up too far ahead. Yes it slows your gameplan but you should be looking to get it answered or keep it at bay so the advantage is minimal!
@thorne5072
Ай бұрын
Most fast mana rocks, there’s too many.
@GeneralTheritt
Ай бұрын
This is basically "i dont like when my opponent stax, but if they can win turn 1 or 2 they should". A great example is just the blatant "well other 2 card combos exist"... the issue isnt that they exist, its that Thoracle enables so many with almost no downsides. Lab maniac and other draw deck cards require you to A. Establish the card on the board. B. Successfully get the trigger of drawing a card but not having any cards in your deck C. Openly getting said state out at instant speed if possible for minimal interaction and D. Not lose your creature prior to the trigger. Thoracle has 2 requirements. A. It successfully enters the battlefield, and B. You have greater devotion to blue than your library has cards. The second that trigger is on the stack you have to either stifle it or remove so mucb blue devotion its likely impossible, unless thoracle is the only devotion they have left. Why would i meet so many requirements and worry about my draw into no deck when i can just 2 mana thoracle knowing its infinitely more safe? Moreover, it enables a 4 mana combo. It doesnt require anything ridiculous, just 4 mana. Which is some of the lowest mana to just win a game. Comparing Sol Ring and Mana Crypt isnt fair either. Saying "well one is just as good and its printed in every precon" but openly acknowledging the price for crypt is ridiculous because of just how much value it has is ignorance. If you want to justify for cEDH sure, but if you look at it from the average player perspective of having maybe 200-300 dollars IF THEYRE INVESTED in mtg, means 1 card makes up a 2/3rds of their deck in cost. You shouldn't advocate for cards unless youre acknowledging proxies are allowed, which in sanctioned wizard events, they aren't. And most people who use it are intending to win fast anyway, so why enable fast mana turn 0, because a dude has 100s of more dollars than you? If you have opinions on commander like this, stick to Vintage and Legacy where your moneybags early turn wins opinion means something.
@Coolhand118
Ай бұрын
I feel like that lab man is way more restrictive than thoracle in same way that jace, wielder of mysteries is more restrictive than thoracle. Thoracle requires less mana and less cards to win. That and depending on the pod, can win on turn 2 or turn 3 depending on how good your hand is. But the argument on "Well X is legal so Y card should also be legal" doesn't hold up when said other cards are way worse than the best on. Otherwise I completely agree with you.
@hexennacht.
Ай бұрын
2 card combos that deserve bans are ones were the format does not have an answer. EDH has nearly every card at it's disposal. If you're losing to Oracle, your deck isn't good enough to be playing against that player. If your locals allow proxys, that's great, you can play the powerful cards too! But tournaments should never allow them and you can make the decision to play underpowered or spend the money. Tournaments do not care about your wallet. The secondary market does not care about your deck building skills. If you think the average player only has $200 to spend on cards, you're just wrong. This game has been marketed to ADULTS with expendable income for it's entire life. If you want a cheap secondary market, you can play Pokemon with the children who also don't have money. Or a novel concept, a different format. Just because the format doesn't fit your lifestyle does not make you the majority. Look into pauper.
@Coolhand118
Ай бұрын
@@hexennacht. I mean casual players usually play with cheaper cards mostly and combos are a bit frowned upon especially really cheap combos at that are really frowned upon. Lower power tables don’t really like cards like Rhystic study or smothering title because it taxes how players on how they play the game. You usually see those cards in higher power pods or CEDH where they don’t care about all of those cards. If anything, higher power players including CEDH players recommend you to proxy cards. Now if you’re going to a tournament that’s one thing to run the actual but it’s another thing to expect players to not expect players to play by how much they can afford. You make it seem like commander players can’t make budget decks, if anything that shows that they’re building responsibly. But there’s always three different power levels of EDH, there’s EDH, high power, and CEDH, you might it seem like if you can’t with cheap cards but that’s straight not true. They have banned cards for CEDH like paradox engine and flash even though they see no casual play which why you don’t see casual players play with flash, paradox engine, or Thassa’s oracle, That and some other cards too. But regardless what all this comes down too is rule zero and what too play and what not too in certain pods.
@GeneralTheritt
Ай бұрын
@@hexennacht. Saying magic is only for adults is forgetting how this was marketed to kids and teens for years and that generation grew up with the game. It has and should be a game for everyone, not just for the people who grew up with it, and saying "well only money spending players should get the best and coolest cards because secondary markets don't care about you" is pretty much admitting Magic is heavily skewed in balance towards those who are willing to spend significantly more in order to increase their winrate. Especially eternal formats where likely many new players don't have the willingness or funds to immediately buy powerful cards over a hundred dollars. The average magic player will absolutely justify the purchase because they're HEAVILY INVESTED, the *average player*, a hobbyist who isn't solely focused on magic or just got in, or is a few sets new but plays a lot, likely will not spend 200 dollars on a singular card. As for Thoracle, matchups exist. If I'm playing Selesnya rush or gruul stompy, or orzhov control or something lacking blue, and I don't draw one of my VERY FEW interaction cards that can be cast extremely early... how is that "my deck isn't good enough"? Thoracle's whole power is the fact that it has so few answers because you need to immediately counter or nullify its effect, or counteract the original deck-leveler. Likely with 4 mana, many blue decks are going to have answers, and an excess of mana to utilize later into a match. Coalition victory costs 7 mana and has likely won less games than thoracle combos have, because thoracle is just that reliable- I can reanimate it, return it to my hand, and its trigger will happen all over again. If almost every deck has no reason not to include Thoracle combo as just a random alternate wincon, its not healthy for the format.
@Arankchess112
Сағат бұрын
The ban list should solely be based on power level and how it warps the cEDH meta, and nothing else. Saying Mana Crypt should be banned due to price is dumb. Thoracle is a nasty card to handle, but it and other 2 card combos need to break through 3 players worth of interaction to succeed. If Thoracle is countered or stifled, thats an instant gg, wereas Chain of Smog or Bomberman into outlet or Kinnan Basalt into Thrasios or others are not nearly as devastating to recover from should it be countered. The taxing effects of Tithe and Study i agree should not be banned.
@palwatcher6903
Ай бұрын
everything in the reserved list...even the weaker ones in the reserved list. don't put that terrible pay wall for CEDH...
@philippvonhulsen5627
22 күн бұрын
But CEDH doesn't really have a paywall. Like 90% of CEDH tournaments are proxy friendly, and almost nobody has problems with proxies. and if you put in a little effort, nobody even notices that you are playing with proxies.
@elliotbanbury6442
Ай бұрын
Mana crypt should be banned, all the rest I’m chill with
@elliotbanbury6442
Ай бұрын
It’s so powerful and at its price point is very restrictive, and it’s a very clear way to push the power level of your deck.
@kaskjmerecollier3917
Ай бұрын
You clearly play blue, it's so very obvious and biased
@kmopm777
Ай бұрын
He banned rhystic studies. I don't get your opinion
@danacoleman4007
16 күн бұрын
i agree 💯
@prestonbeaulieu4379
Ай бұрын
Everyone's talking about rystic study and tithe. Nah, keeping mana crypt in casual commander is wild. That card literally gives you more mana than black lotus by turn 2, and every turn aftet that is just gravy. The format would be better off without crypt or sol ring, but the RC is a joke, and WOTC puts ring in every precon, so they're not helping either.
@hexennacht.
Ай бұрын
In the same way that Crypt or Sol should be banned, there are a bunch of cards that should be unbanned. The RC is definitely a joke. Look up their take on why Gifts Ungiven is banned but Intuition isn't and you'll laugh.
@eliasfajardo6148
22 күн бұрын
unban Hullbreacher!
@willnorambuena1716
Күн бұрын
I don't know how to, so i suggest ban jajajaja sad
@damonicruz2408
Ай бұрын
I think you should be banned from commander
@gokumonki3
Ай бұрын
This is a joke right 😂
@unB10
Ай бұрын
Wow couldn't disagree more. Thoracle has to go. Rhystic and smothering tithe are irritating but nowhere near a bad. At least lab man requires you to draw a card to win. Thoracle is just lazy. Also, ban led.
@Jedibob5
Ай бұрын
Rhystic draws you a bunch of cards IF your opponents are dumb. The temptation not to pay the one is the only reason it's so relevant. A 2U enchantment that just said "Spells your opponents cast cost 1 more" wouldn't see that much play. Tithe is more troublesome in that paying 2 on any draw is a lot harder than 1 on every spell, but at least the Tithe player needs a payoff for all that mana to do any good. Agreed on Thoracle and LED. Crypt also should've been banned years ago. I could take or leave Dockside - it can be obnoxious for sure, but at least it usually can't give much advantage on turn 1 or 2, where fast mana is most impactful.
@evantheilman2751
Ай бұрын
There may be efficient two-card wins apart from Thoracle, but if there was anything better, it would be run at the rate Thoracle is now and it would be what we were talking about instead. There's just not really a two-card combo for three mana total that just wins you the game, and can be done on the stack in a way that if the Thoracle trigger gets countered while Consultation is on the stack, you can just choose to not exile your library because you choose what card to dig to when Consultation resolves, rather than when you cast it. Its not just good, it's safe and doesn't go all in. Perhaps Consultation deserves the ban more than Thoracle itself, but Thoracle is the only version of the effect that wins immediately, rather than having to wait for you to draw a card normally, and it's the cheapest version of the effect. I absolutely believe it deserves the ban, as it requires no setup apart from having the cards in hand.
@unB10
Ай бұрын
@@evantheilman2751 exactly. If they banned decon you would just see a resurgence of the card Leveler. That's why I love Nadu. It's so irritating to play against, but it's hilarious to see thoracle players seethe at losing to combat damage in cedh. Granted some people play thoracle in Nadu, but that's just because they have no imagination.
@georgesingletary2380
Ай бұрын
These takes are crazy
@ivikivi32vonbaum
Ай бұрын
This is probably the worst take I have heard so far.
@danacoleman4007
16 күн бұрын
then why did you type it?
@moxbismuth
Ай бұрын
none of them should be banned. the banlist shopuld stay how it is. maybe remove a couple things, but nothing should be added at present
@pokepersonzach8574
Ай бұрын
This is the only good take I’ve seen in these comments. The ban list should only be things that break the game and make it grindy to an unreasonable level. Shaharwzad and balance come to mind. But cards being powerful shouldn’t be banned…there will always be a replacement that becomes the next most powerful thing.
@ToadboyVlogs
Ай бұрын
Rhystic study should never be banned.
@jamesfilyawDigginGabe
Ай бұрын
Rhystic Study and Smothering Tithe are stax pieces if you're not irresponsible, and we're not out here banning stax pieces are we? Thats a stupid opinion.
@adaubu3063
Ай бұрын
none of these cards are getting banned. Expensive commander staples sell packs. There is no way that wotc will ban them while this remains true. (edit: wording)
@philippvonhulsen5627
22 күн бұрын
WotC doesn't ban cards in commander. The RC does, which is an entirely different that doesn't care about selling packs.
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