To optimize this setup, you could consider changing the way that the Lift is held up by your chest harness. It looks like the Lift flops around the way you have it attached currently. There may also be potential for it to fall down partway into the chest harness carabiner, which might then obstruct the device. You could pass a small and thin loop of cord, or an elastic hair-tie, through one of the carabiner attachment plates on the Lift, then clip that to your chest harness (basket hitch, etc.). If the cord is thin enough and only attached to one plate, you should still be able to open the Lift without removing it from your chest harness and possibly dropping it (YMMV, I have not used a Lift myself). Another advantage, if the cord were weak enough to break under a moderate load, is that you would not have to worry as much about being strangled by the chest harness if you fell in a strange way that would pull it up around your neck. You may want to use the shortest length quickdraw you can find for this method to keep the Lift farther away from your face, but still above the GriGri. And for steeper cliffs, it is always useful to have some spare prusik cord clipped to your harness. Just in case you find yourself hanging on a weighted ascender and can't manage to take tension off the line! I started Top Rope Soloing using a chest ascender and GriGri on two lines (similar to you), then two independent ascenders and swapping to a GriGri at the top for lowering. Now I use a Taz Lov2 with an ascender on a second line as a backup. That way I don't have to pull up slack while I climb, but I can still lower down without having to disconnect from my primary device and potentially make a serious mistake. I like your reasoning behind pulling up slack and it's physical/mental similarities to the process of lead climbing. I tend to use TRS more as a way to enjoy the outdoors and tap into the "flow state" of climbing that I enjoy so much. Maybe we will run into each other at Hammond Pond sometime, although I usually climb at other crags to avoid the traffic. Climb on!
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for your suggestions. You are right that the quickdraw is a little too long but the result is that the Lift ascender is pulled lower than and away from my chest harness so it won't be pulled into my chest harness. I will try with a shorter quickdraw so that it will catch falls faster. With a shorter quickdraw (or maybe my current quickdraw), I think I will use a cord to attach the dogbone to my harness so that the Lift ascender will sit higher (which I believe is the spirit of your suggestion). I am a little concerned that attaching the Lift directly to my harness will make my harness bear the load during a fall and I don't want to worry about relying on the cord breaking. I agree with carrying a prusik cord which I always do since I use it for a rappel backup. On an overhang with this TRS set up, I don't think it would be too hard to do a pull-up on one strand and take slack on the GriGri to unweight the Lift ascender strand but a prusik cord would make the pull-up easier. The Taz Lov2 looks awesome! When I get tired of pulling slack through my GriGri, I'll definitely check it out. I climb all over the area so maybe we will run into each other sometime. Thanks again for the great suggestions and have fun and stay safe!
@DerrickNedzelMtnBike
5 ай бұрын
Great discussion guys. I am new to TRS, I purchased Yann Camus’ online course, I read Andy Kirkpatrick’s book On The Line and I have a guide lined up to review my procedures after I work thru all my practice on procedures, escapes, etc and think I am ready to head outside. I really value reading your discussion to understand your areas of concern and how you address those challenges for yourself. I accept full responsibility for my choice to TRS, your discussion is another useful resource for me. Thanks guys!
@CtHtThomas
Жыл бұрын
This looks super practical, since keeping the grigri on 100% of the time should dramatically cut down on faff when switching to lowering. For mileage laps up long pitches, I recon a single strand with two ascender-type devices is still preferable (to be able to climb longer with one rope, and without feeding through the grigri). However, for cruxier climbing where I want to move up and down to work things out, but I still want two devices, I really want to try out this method!
@MrJohnthec
Жыл бұрын
re: grigri - there's plenty of content out there about the grigri not being reliable for solo lockup. It's assumed by many that it will always do what's expected because we use it and it works most of the time for non-solo uses. It's been demonstrated to not always catch. Check out bliss climbing. I'd recommend IF relying on the grigri in the system, placing incremental backup knots downstream of it.
@JonWuClimbs
Жыл бұрын
Yes, it is a good point that the Gri Gri was designed to be used with your hand on the brake strand so it would be safer if you backed up the Gri Gri.
@sciencesaves
2 жыл бұрын
This is my favorite setup, I just use a Kong Duck instead of the Camp ascender. Top rope soloing feels so much safer to me than relying on a partner for slack and belay. I also don’t like debris/rocks falling on my belayer. Top rope soloing is the best IMO 👍
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback. The Kong Duck seems similar to the Camp Lift except it looks like the Kong Duck may be able to handle higher loads. I'll have to check it out. Stay safe!
@6800891
2 жыл бұрын
20% of climbing injuries are attributed to belay related mistakes. I also use 2 ropes and feel safer than relying on a belayer. Use two ascenders, one on each rope and never have to feed line. Falls are of such a shirt height, the odds of schock breaking both ascenders is lower than driving to the crag. Thanks for your video.
@6800891
2 жыл бұрын
I meant that the risk of injury from breaking both ascenders is less than being in a car accident.
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
@@6800891 I agree that the risk of two ascenders on two separate lines failing is extremely low and I will probably try that set up at some point. For now, I like using a GriGri on one line because it feels similar to finding a stance and placing protection and I like the ease of rappelling and doing laps. Thanks for watching!
@6800891
2 жыл бұрын
@@JonWuClimbs indeed, I will admit that when I reach the top and rappel down, it is a pain to switch over one of the ropes to a figure 8 for rappel. I may try your setup, though with my beal birdie in place of a grigri. Climb on!
@bamboleo6165
2 ай бұрын
Thank you, bro.
@JonWuClimbs
2 ай бұрын
Thanks for commenting. Stay safe
@memeyou241
2 жыл бұрын
You didn't show a fall, on this setup. I want to see it in action. Thanks for sharing.
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
There is a fall at the 5:10 point in this video: kzitem.info/news/bejne/jqKJ0KqrbIFeaY4 I am climbing using the same set up. You can't see the device but the Camp Lift is taking all the load even though I pulled the slack through the GriGri. I'll probably have a better video with falling later. :-) Thanks for watching!
@memeyou241
2 жыл бұрын
@@JonWuClimbs Thanks. I watched the other vid -- I see, it worked well. Cheers.
@elijahsheffler3738
2 жыл бұрын
What’s the purpose of using 2 independent lines as opposed to just having both devices on one rope?
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
In my setup, the Camp Lift Ascender needs to be on a weighted line so that the rope will automatically feed through the ascender but the Gri Gri cannot be on a weighted line because I have to manually pull the rope through the Gri Gri as I climb. Two lines also provides redundancy. If you use a different setup with two devices that automatically capture progress on a weighted line then you could potentially use one line but I have read that it is also possible that if your primary device fails then it could cause your backup to fail if both are on the same line.
@thelifeofraymond
Жыл бұрын
@@JonWuClimbs Do you have a figure 8 with bunny ears as the top knot?
@JonWuClimbs
Жыл бұрын
@@thelifeofraymond Wow, good catch! In the video, it is a figure 8 with bunny years but that's not what I use for top rope solo. For top rope solo, I use a bowline on a bite because it is easier to untie. In the video, I just intended to demonstrate the devices on two fixed lines and not the knot.
@ashtaylor4382
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Are there any downsides to clipping both devices directly to your belay loop? I follow the same rope set-up and use a Petzl micro trax on one strand and Gri Gri 2 on another strand. Both devices on the belay loop directly without a chest harness. Micro above, Gri Gri below. Feeds just fine and can't think of any added risk but maybe I'm missing something? Thanks!
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
I connect the Camp ascender to a locking quick draw and then to my belay loop so that I will have some separation between the two devices. The chest harness just lets the ascender sit higher in the system. The Camp ascender captures progress by bending the rope. While probably extremely unlikely, I can imagine the Gri Gri pushing against the ascender, changing the orientation of the ascender, and causing it not to catch. I haven't used a micro tax so I can't comment. I would just make sure that one device can't cause the other device to fail.
@ButterBallTheOpossum
2 жыл бұрын
Is the camp lift Uiaa certified?
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
No, the Camp Lift is not UIAA certified. It is CE certified for the EN 12841 B standard for rope access and it is not intended for fall arrest so it is clearly not intended for top rope soling. When I use it for top rope soloing, I make sure that the rope feeds smoothly to minimize shock loading and I always use a backup.
@djayers
2 жыл бұрын
I've not tried it myself, but there are several videos around here that suggest the GriGri doesn't always latch on if there's nothing holding the brake strand of the rope. I've got both a Kong Duck and Camp Lift and although I doubt either would take much shock, with the kind of setup you're using with the rope continuously fed, I can't see that being an issue.
@JonWuClimbs
2 жыл бұрын
When belaying with a GriGri, the hand on the brake strand should be a backup and should not need to actively apply force to the brake strand. I'll do some research on failure modes when there is no hand on the brake strand. Thanks for pointing this out. I agree that as long as the Camp Lift or Kong Duck smoothly capture progress then shock loading should not be an issue. Just be careful on overhangs and not let the tail end of the rope rest on your leg. Thanks for watching and your feedback!
@craigspaulding4871
2 жыл бұрын
Negative. The GG is also used for lead rope solo and catches falls without any weight but the weight of the rope. Check out the Lead Rope Solo group on FB. Lots of examples of people using it there. There is no issue if the primary ascender fails. The GG will catch.
I was at Hammond Pond in Newton, MA practicing crack climbing: www.mountainproject.com/route/105908313/cracker-jack It is not a great climb but it is close to my house.
@lowpolysquare
2 жыл бұрын
@@JonWuClimbs It looks like a great place to learn. I need to find something similar in my area. Thanks!
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