I find it cheaper to replace the clutch than replacing a transmission that cost almost what a used tractor goes for. Also, I've noticed gear drive trans are much better for heavy work and can last a lifetime if properly maintained.
@joegeorgia8989
4 жыл бұрын
That was surprising. I have a hydrostatic transmission tractor and got it that way because my property is very hilly and uneven. The hydro transmission made it alot easier to drive around and do work. Now 15 years later I started doing open field mowing and quickly learned the value of a geared tractor.
@Dirtbikesforlife16
4 жыл бұрын
Doing this test in high range on the hst seems pointless the high range is for driving on the road. Medium or low would be much more interesting
@user-fl4wn9dn2c
4 жыл бұрын
it couldn't be any more stupid to test it in high.. need to test low range against 1st gear....... stupid test comparison.
@harryballzack
4 жыл бұрын
Agreed. But having a HST they don’t have any power in any of the three ranges. L3830
@jamesmclamb3682
4 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly. What's the purpose of this video really? Is Messick's overstocked with a whole lot of gear drive tractors?
@turbodiesel8651
4 жыл бұрын
Gear drive is stronger than hydrostatic no matter which range you compare them in. Hydraulic power is not giving direct power to the wheels like a gear will. Hydro is more convenient but gear is stronger. This test is a very valid test and isn’t stupid at all. If you want the conveniences of hydro your going to lose some pulling power but many folks don’t need to pull a lot with a small tractor. That’s why we have options, what works well for one may not for another. There are pros and cons to both drive systems. That’s my opinion, feel free to disagree
@charlotteantiquepowerengin6277
4 жыл бұрын
@@turbodiesel8651 isn't that kind of a generalization? The miracle of hydraulics us that a hydraulic systen actually _does_ put power from the pump directly to the motor that turns a wheel, with less loss of energy than with a standard drivetrain. In application, you are replacing the drive shaft, awkward u-joints and etc. The pulling power of the vehicle is limited, ultimately, by the quantity of hydraulic fluid it can carry and keep cool. If it were practical to load up the little Kubota with 60 gallons of hydraulic fluid and a couple of coolers, a powerful axial piston pump could be used to drive the wheels and multiple accessories to out perform the gear drive tractor, while still using the same fossils fuel engine. All that said, since about 2005, ive thought hydraulic drive systems to be the wrong direction. Hydraulic systens are expensive, and it is the nature of liquid to seek more efficient means of travel than that you've selected for it. In other words, they break and are messy polluters. Far better to use a mechanical drivetrain and put your money into researching electric power. The electric tractor is the future. As for me, I've got a couple of tractors, and both are gear drive and run on fossil fuels.
@cleonmain1291
4 жыл бұрын
I am fortunate to have a L3200 gear drive tractor for discing and bush hog mowing. And a B2301 loader tractor. I prefer the gear drive because of it's ability to work at a set speed while working on food plot's and mowing my 2 miles of trails. But a hydro-static is a much better loader tractor, almost instant direction changes. So you need both! Thanks for the video.
@russianacorns8080
3 жыл бұрын
Or get a shuttle I think it’s the best thing since sliced bread, no torque loss, no whine, plus instant direction change.
@storemannc
2 жыл бұрын
Yes wish there was a shuttle option, Be awesome if u could get the GST transmission on this size tractor
@HunterWilson22
4 жыл бұрын
Uhh... where's the rest of the video, where you put the HST in low range???
@metalhead4700
4 жыл бұрын
All he’d do is spin the tires, that’s why the test was done in high.
@brandtwebber5761
4 жыл бұрын
Once you spin it's over in my experience. In a hydro machine you shouldn't.
@javery50
3 жыл бұрын
@@brandtwebber5761 they can both pull the same load up until the tires break loose. He should have tested to that point and there would not have been a difference. The tires are the limiting factor.
@mojorizn72
3 жыл бұрын
Unnecessary
@zacharysandberg
6 күн бұрын
If the gear tractor is pulling 3 times the hydro in high, it's going to pull about 3 times the hydro in low.
@jebova2301
4 жыл бұрын
Good video, and I love my gear drive l4400, but I think the test was a little flawed. When the gear drive started going on the first test, it was jerking around and had time to build a tiny bit of momentum. That momentum could lead to a shock value that reads higher than the actual pulling force. I think this is why the values were much closer on the second test in hi-4. Also, hi-1 would be much more similar to the medium range in the HST model if it is anything like my l4400. In it, lo-4 gives a top speed of 4.2mph, and hi-1 gives a top speed of 4.4mph, meaning they are very similar to each other in final ratios. Considering my gear drive has a top speed in hi-4 of 14.9mph, that means both of those gears are in the bottom 1/3(both less than 30% of the overall top speed/tallest gearing). Either way, keep up the videos. There has been a lot of very entertaining and also educational information, and I think we all appreciate it.
@stevieg.4816
9 ай бұрын
I havea L3800 gea`r but for your comment on second time closer? Hell He was in 4th low. You have a gear unit and know low in 1st pull pull your head off.
@robertwofford4985
4 жыл бұрын
I'm for gear drive.
@ricksanchez7459
4 жыл бұрын
That high pitch whine drives me crazy on hst.
@viperstrike3827
4 жыл бұрын
I use earplugs on tractor anyway
@user-fl4wn9dn2c
4 жыл бұрын
yes I agree... BUT their better for loader and dirt work. I have a L3800 HST. don't like the wine
@SuperHerefords
4 жыл бұрын
You'll hear that in the Std. L and MX series. Step up to a Grand L 60 or an older Grand L 40 series and virtually no whine. I don't know how they managed to quieten down the Grand L's like the way they did but they did.
@MrBsizelove
3 жыл бұрын
My experience with my kioti tractor is there’s only a high-pitched whine and high range if I’m in four-wheel-drive
@MrBsizelove
3 жыл бұрын
Did you put the HST in four-wheel-drive?
@TheSnakeman3
4 жыл бұрын
Would have liked to see the HST in low range and in 4WD so it breaks the tires loose like you did the gear drive. If the gear drive has 300% more pulling power over HST, then all salesmen should mention that when selling a tractor.
@rickywoods3101
4 жыл бұрын
I have both and the gear drive for sure has more pulling power
@eosjoe565
4 жыл бұрын
@@rickywoods3101 Gear drive all day every day. No relief valves to open. It's just engine-clutch-gears-tires.
@pedrobatista4439
4 жыл бұрын
@Robert Black1911 You missed the point. Both tractors were in 4WD and High range exactly to point out that a gear tractor pulls a lot more while the HST can't even spin the wheels and is a noise maker.
@javabean215
4 жыл бұрын
Agreed. If you're hooking to a load with a HST, you're in low, not high. I'd be really curious about the peak numbers there. No question to me that if you're pulling/ground engaging almost all of the time a gear is better, but this vid gives the impression that HST can't pull even half of what a gear will.
@rickywoods3101
4 жыл бұрын
@@javabean215 Their high end gear ratio is the same between them both. That's why he had them both In high to give them the same load and see which one is more efficient at transferring the power to the ground. if you put them in low without downward pressure they both will just spin
@Hoodyhoo2121
4 жыл бұрын
Please try the hydro in medium or low range. I'm curious to see if it catches the gear drive at some point?
@TheBrushcutter
4 жыл бұрын
It won't. The power loss through a hydro system is ever present. A manual, geared system is positive lockup. No power loss. On the hydro drive units there were too many checks on the don't like side of the list when I was looking for a tractor. Power loss was a biggie but that infernal obnoxious high pitched whine was the deal breaker. I was looking for a compact and found a 4wd B2320 with fel that had 71 hours, less than 2 years old for less than half the new price. I only have one complaint, and that is the valve type 3pt system instead of the pick a point that older/other tractors have. But that was just a matter of readjusting the driver(me) lol. Once I figured out how to use it, it was as easy as the old Deutz that my grandfather had that all of us learned to operate. And with the on fender shift/lift/control arrangement that little tractor is sweet to run. I couldn't be happier with it.
@anymanusa
4 жыл бұрын
@@TheBrushcutter it will, regardless of power loss because the weight and grip of the tractors won't allow even half power to be transmitted to the ground. The tires would slip. This pull off should have been done in the lowest range. It baffles me how he said that he wanted to limit wheel spinning, but the hydro isn't even capable of spinning in high range.
@harryballzack
4 жыл бұрын
GREGG G DUETZ! Have one with no brakes. It’s a scary ride on a hill! Stays hooked to a 15’ bush hog. If it gets to going a little fast just drop it all the way down and it will stop eventually 😂.
@eddieb9110
4 жыл бұрын
@@anymanusa no way. That's why you saw the gear drive smoke it in high gear.
@JeremyAkersInAustin
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheBrushcutter Power loss is irrelevant in a test like this. The tires can only transmit so much power to the ground. Once you exceed that limit, the tires slip. As long as the HST has enough power to slip the tires in medium or low range, it would offer the exact same pull number on the scale because at that point the limit is the tires, not the amount of power being delivered by the engine or transmission.
@perrywade3728
4 жыл бұрын
I would have like to seen a 4th gear pull in both hi an lo. As well a pull in all 3 ranges of the hydro
@baronallison941
4 жыл бұрын
Right on. Compare each tractor in each gear at each range, make a chart, THEN compare. Todd at Project Farm is probably LHAO right now.
@stevenfirst8222
4 жыл бұрын
I love how blown away you were about that result. I am also suprised it is that much.
@markproulx1472
4 жыл бұрын
That was fascinating. Despite the results, I’ll stay with my HST. As a novice whose work doesn’t regularly involve ground-engaging equipment, e.g., plows, disks, I love the HST’s ease of operation.
@cargotoolshop5319
3 жыл бұрын
Hydro was meant for mowing your grass, shuttle was made for bucket work, stick shift was made for straight pulling
@cargotoolshop5319
2 жыл бұрын
@First Choice Mechanical remember we are talking about little tractors, not heavy equipment or large tractors, I have used both and I prefer a manual transmission only if it has a shuttle shift, I know that hydro tranny's are great and all, bit again we are talking about budget tractors, not high end fancy stuff that the boss is paying for, but a at home cheaper the better little tractor, if you save some cash and it takes a little bit longer to get your work done, that's what I would do, but I'm old school, stay strong
@chasetemple3129
Жыл бұрын
@@cargotoolshop5319 can’t a shuttle shift do pulling work as well as a stick shift
@darthnatas953
Жыл бұрын
@firstchoicemechanical1403 Because hydrostats change directions and speed quickly and effortlessly without any shifting, and are better for loader work like on a skid steer. Excavators already have a massive hydraulic pump to run that boom and stick, so it just makes sense to run the tracks with that as well. A gear drive tractor is better to run a 15' batwing mower in one direction all day without overheating, and none of the heavy tractors are hydrostat as far as I know, although some large tractors have electric drives.
@remb9614
4 жыл бұрын
I’ve always had a suspicion that gear drives pull a lot harder just because of old farmall tractors I used to play with. They were only 20-30hp but will literally flip themselves trying to pull if theres traction. You gotta be ready for that. I guess there is a clutch slip issue but the gearing is so low your not frying those clutch plates. My opinion, hydro is convenient but you do lose significant power to the ground in small tractors.
@techguy9023
2 жыл бұрын
I think the gear drive lasts longer than hydrostatic
@terryeffinp
4 жыл бұрын
It is awesome you guys go out and play around with these machines and test them out. I can't wait to have a Kubota of my own one day!
@indianaoutdoors4379
4 жыл бұрын
People it was done in the grass due to that being where the load cell is buried. Its not birried on his parking lot where people can damage it/it be in the way. Also he did the test in high to try and keep from spinning the tires/overloading that load cell. In low gear the gear drive would most likly max out the load cell. The hst would probably be in the upper limits. Is it truly scientific? Well no but its also something to consider.
@terryk3118
4 жыл бұрын
I'm going with the gear drive...
@GPOutdoors
4 жыл бұрын
Thanks Neal. That was pretty interesting. I am not super mechanical, but I don't work my tractor in high gear. Maybe do the test again but in low, and on a more consistent surface? Grass is a wild card, I think. I'd like to see that. Thanks!
@DLTJR1959
4 жыл бұрын
Most folk today don't really use ground engaging equipment much. Gardens used to utilize a plow and disc harrow. Now they use a PTO tiller. The gear will have more available HP to the PTO than a hydro. A box blade or a land plane use gets back to traction issues more than power issues. For the vast majority of folk hydrostat will continue to be the transmission of choice even though the cost is higher. Thanks for the videos Neil. I appreciate them.
@karaayers2867
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly what I've known for years. The gear drive advantage is great when pulling and also when pulling constantly at high rpm the heat is handled more efficiently by square cut gears and shafts. The hydro units don't handle the heat nearly as good.
@stopspinskydiving
4 жыл бұрын
Well that was an easy one. Of course gears engaged are more powerful than a wet sump clutch system. I still have the HST for ease of use though.
@rsmith2786
4 жыл бұрын
What does a wet sump clutch have to do with either the gear drive or HST tractors in this video? Neither have a wet sump clutch. The gear drive tractor has a dry clutch and the HST is...well, an HST. It uses a pump and fluid coupling system.
@mattcanfield6384
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly wet sump is a atv thing ....
@jaredkuczer5510
4 жыл бұрын
First off easy win for gear drive because the HST wouldn’t let the tires dig/ spin. Basic tractor pulling right there, no spin no power output. You don’t buy a HST for pulling power, your not going to go plow with it, it’s for ease of use, gears drive is just better for pulling regardless of high or low range
@garsonprice3441
3 жыл бұрын
My neighbour had a 24 HP HST tractor. I had a 20 HP shuttle shift. Mine would pull a cord of wood in my trailer up my back mountain with ease, although slowly in 3/12 gear. The bigger HP HST in low range would bog out and stop barely into the hill. Varying the throttle made no difference. I've been told by dealers that HST sacrifices 30% of your HP. So 50% loss in the HST seems like good math in my example.
@mattcanfield6384
4 жыл бұрын
Got a gear drive Kubota L new last year zero regrets absolutely hate that whinny hydro trans they have there place but not in my garage
@JoeBlow-24
4 жыл бұрын
Theoretically both tractors spinning the tires with the same weight and grip will pull the exact same. The hydro never broke traction because it was in high range, there is no equivalent to the gear drives 1st gear even in high range. Friction dictates pulling power, the hst was in a range that could not produce the torque required to defeat the friction. This test should have been done in the correct range for both tractors individually. Same weight and HP with the same tires should require the exact same torque to break loose the wheels this is simply a difference in power curves not capabilities.
@davem4169
3 жыл бұрын
thats what i was thinking
@urbanawoodproject3123
4 жыл бұрын
Hi Neil, these comparison videos are some of the most interesting content you put out there. Thanks so much for doing this. I would love to see you do a comparison video on turning radius. That number isn't always clear since Kubota's printed specs often assume wheel braking. I think comparing the BX, B2601, B2650 (or LX2610) would be great, maybe some L's too if you're into that.
@copisetic1104
4 жыл бұрын
Changing directions fast is paramount for me, mowing and loading I’ll take the HST any day.
@treylem3
3 жыл бұрын
C'mon Neil, why not test hydro medium at least where most use loader? Really like your channel. Thanks
@SouthernStyleLawnCare
4 жыл бұрын
I love how Unbiased your channell is. Keep it up. I went with the L2501 HST as I use the loader alot. I just have to get used to the Whiney noise the HST's make. Take care.
@cargotoolshop5319
3 жыл бұрын
Can you get a shuttle shift with the manual transmission
@jamesgardner83
3 жыл бұрын
l2501 with gear drive has a transmission powered pto, which means when you push the clutch in to change direction the pto shuts off, which is less then ideal when bush hogging.
@Towing417
4 жыл бұрын
I want to see project farm do a similar test
@babranson1
4 жыл бұрын
My 1992 1920 shuttle shift Ford would out pull either of my Kubota 5030 or 5740 HSTC. I hooked a root while plowing a neighbors garden and the 1920 broke one of the 7/8 hitch pins. One of the best tractors I’ve owned.
@otahu26
4 ай бұрын
Also.. We had Small Tractors with Gear drives pulling 110 000 lbs of paper at the Port doing long shore man work... Those tractors had over 23000 hours before they needed clutch replacements. Shuttle shift is a bonus. Nothing beats on a tractor worse then Long Shore man pulling 16 rolls of industrial size paper rolls along with it's trailer.
@jc-botaman1077
4 жыл бұрын
So which new tractor would you like to buy? The one with the burnt clutch or the one with the abused hydro. I'm not buying a L3901 from Messick's anytime soon. LOL
@BiffsEquipment
2 жыл бұрын
Great video Neil.. where a hydro really shines is when your doing fine detailed work or loader work.. it’s not very enjoyable moving buckets of material all day long with a clutch on your left foot.. you’ll realize your left leg will start to be in quite a lot of pain after an 8 hour shift and the level of precision with the loader/bucket is not nearly as good.. but a good operator can easily overcome these obstacles with a gear driven tractor and if your anything like me you may even prefer to use gear driven over a hydro most of the time. Surprised I missed this one 👍🏻
@caschenbeck
4 жыл бұрын
I have a MX5200 HST and I would have liked to seen the comparison in low on both and like others suggested, maybe do this on pavement instead of grass.
@supersnot4
4 жыл бұрын
Doesn't really matter much, since you'd be in low to do any work like this. In that case, either tractor is more than capable of spinning all 4 tires, so they both end up having the same pulling power. The advantage here goes to the HST since you don't have to stop and shift gears, you can just keep building up speed depending on what you're pulling.
@royj8549
4 жыл бұрын
Lots of people asking what the Hydro would pull in low - answer is exactly the same as gear. Assuming similar weight, similar tires, and similar psi, you're always limited by traction. At plowing speeds, the pull force is identical (limited by tire slip). The gear will use less fuel, and / or deliver more power to the PTO due to less parasitic loss. That's the real advantage. Disadvantage is clutch wear for loader type of work.
@SCDeerAddict
2 жыл бұрын
Want to bet?
@brandonmorales7704
3 жыл бұрын
I'm not surprised I use this same tractor at work and it's super powerful and 4wd works darn good tbh
@SLCFarms
4 жыл бұрын
Downhill breaking is best with gear drive as well the engine will help maintain speed. Also you can get constant travel speed. Hydro is nice for loader work or a lot of back and fourth. I wish you would have done the test in all the ranges on both machines for comparison.
@johnmedlin5894
4 жыл бұрын
I'll take HST all day long, especially for efficiency and ease of use functionality. Gear drive is great for grunt work like that, but for my personal use, I'm not pulling up stumps.
@eosjoe565
4 жыл бұрын
There is no question that HST is more convenient for most folks especially when working in confined spaces around the yard. The lack of HST pulling power can be a bit frustrating though. I've owned a 30HP gear drive tractor and a 30HP HST and the gear drive will drag the HST machine all over the field.
@johnmedlin5894
4 жыл бұрын
@@eosjoe565 Great to know, but I bet it's simply because the gearing is much lower. Makes sense why HST has a little faster top end speed. I'm mostly doing mowing and loader work around our property.
@Cutecumber12564
4 жыл бұрын
@@johnmedlin5894 that's where you're wrong, I'm pretty sure he gear speed would have a higher speed than hst
@petergisel4864
4 жыл бұрын
I was guessing it would be around a 14% difference. I saw a video on a manual vs. automatic in a jeep wrangler where the manual put down 40 more horsepower which is equivalent to around 14%. I understand that a hydro-static is not a car automatic but they are both fluid drive systems when you really at a basic level. Very impressive experiment.
@court2379
4 жыл бұрын
A car torque converter operates very differently. It uses a turbine, while a tractor has a positive displacement piston based pump. Also the losses probably don't scale the same. The gear drive is more efficient though and while the logic behind your answer is off, the answer is probably pretty close.
@petergisel4864
4 жыл бұрын
@@court2379 True. They are very different pieces of machinery. The point i was getting at was exactly what you said about the gear drive being more efficient at transferring power. I think it would be interesting to see how these drive systems compare on a dyno.
@tomcleverley18
4 жыл бұрын
For many people the Hydro the advantage for their home(stead) because they may not pull anything harder than the Roto-tiller or push harder than some snow or occasionally put new gravel on the driveway. For mowing lawns and the pasture, or cleaning out the horse stalls the Hydro is probably a better fit. If you want to do real tillage with plow, disc, and harrow, or you want to pull logs out of your own wood lot, then the Gear Drive will always be the best option. Gear drive is the more efficient way to get HP to the Ground, but jobs that require frequent F/R, and/or speed changes may make the Hydro the better option not just for ease of use, but save the clutches. For what we do here at our little Kentucky Farm our 2 smallest tractors (17 + 24 HP) are Hydro and the others (33, 49, and 120) are Gear Drive. There are Gear Transmissions that have F/N/R, a reverser that makes direction changes much easier for the operator and the machine is designed for it too
@markfulwood7415
4 жыл бұрын
I run an MX5200, HST, BB2572 Box Blade, about 8 to 10 hrs a day. For me, grading BOC, and general fine grade work, the HST is the deal! I'm on my 8th different tractor at my job, site work, road base crew work. I started with a 5100, 2572 box. Had 3 or 4 of those, I've put 3000 hours on one of those, and the only problem encountered, was the bushings on the speed control pedal, @1800 hrs. My ultimate favorite, is the MX5200, with a BB3578 box, water in the rear tires, and that's it. Ultimate fine grade weapon. Enjoy your vids, live life, 6 ft. At a time! #Tractortrash
@harveygibbons1113
4 жыл бұрын
I’m going to stick with HST! I think the positives massively outweigh the negatives and definitely compared to gear driven tractors
@MessicksEquip
4 жыл бұрын
Totally agree!
@harveygibbons1113
4 жыл бұрын
Messick's Equipment do you prefer HST? What does Neil like?
@laillahilaallah001
2 жыл бұрын
Never change messicks, i love your intro!
@gtuttle4
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! It really doesn't matter if the gear drive out pulls the hydro IF you can't get traction! I had a 20 hp John Deere lawn mower (430) and when using the full 20hp, I simply spun, not accomplishing any work at all!
@philipchamberlain9563
4 жыл бұрын
Could ya redo the test both in Lowest possible gear and 4 wheel drive and diff locked (max pull) (and on a service that is less slippy if possible - hard dirt or pavement)
@davem4169
3 жыл бұрын
those factors alone improve the testing by 300% maybe not lab perfect but way more real world than the way neil decided to video this "test"
@CT_Yankee
4 жыл бұрын
I may be stupid, but why didn't the HST ever spin the wheels like the manual did? I would have pushed the HST to the point of spinning the wheels for a more realistic comparison.
@codyscherer6930
4 жыл бұрын
i grew with standard gears on my tractors love them i hate hst. in the last 15 yrs i think we have replaced one clutch maybe. gears pull stronger and i personally feel like i have more control between gear selection throttle clutching and independent brakes. also i think older tractors are just flat out better, the tie rods on my old ford are 2x as big as a tractor of similar size and hp over recent yrs, just everything was built bigger and heavier.
@djmiller5563
4 жыл бұрын
I had no idea the gear drive would perform that much better...kinda leaning towards the gear drive now due to "pulling power" being a huge requirement for me.
@donraptor6156
2 жыл бұрын
I have had boh! I traded my gear drive for a HST! Never regretted it! No clutch to change!
@johnb4183
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely ! Pulling power needs to be done on pavement with same or similar tires and pressure.
@daveperala4965
4 жыл бұрын
I wish you would've done the hydro in low range to break the tires loose after just so you'll have a comparison with the gear drive.
@deanbarr5740
4 жыл бұрын
Good review and good results Neil. I've only owned one hydrostatic tractor which is my current tractor. I have to say i prefer the geared transmission. The ever present squall and whining from the hydrostat is very annoying. But, my 11 year old granddaughter cand drive my J.Deere 3025. She'll soon be using the F.E. Loader.
@steveholton4130
4 жыл бұрын
I always have thought that to get MAX Pull or Push you want the Lowest gear available. I would use Low gear (1st), Low range either way. Where is my error? If tires break traction add weight to the axle that slips until neither axle slips and you then have Max Traction. Creeper Gear at Max traction puts Max Power to the ground. That's all she wrote and why we spend the Big Bucks for 4WD. sdh in CT
@redmanaaron97
4 жыл бұрын
I knew the manual transmission would win.. however I was only expecting a 20-30% difference at most. Other people mentioned the HST should also be tested in low range.. which makes more sense to me. Loader work and the like should only be done in low range
@7891ph
4 жыл бұрын
Reading through the comments makes me think that many people don't seem to realize that each design is optimized for a given performance range, as well as ideal workload. First things first. Both will do a good job at forward and back type work, so both are sutable for loader work. That being said, if you're looking for a tractor for primarily loader work, with minimal heavy drawbar work, the hydro will most likely be the model for you. It's capable of decent towing, as well as draft work with a plow or subsoiler/ripper. But it's optimized for constant forward/reverse usage. If,on the other hand you're looking for a tractor that can still do a good job with a loader, but is going to spend most of it's time doing tillage, mowing, planting/harvesting type work, then the gear transmission will be a better fit. It all comes down to actually knowing what you need the tractor for.
@davidhughes8636
4 жыл бұрын
Using the clutch would act like having it in a lower range, ya need to go to med to let the hst be able to break traction like the gear did to make it fair.
@AJmx2702001
4 жыл бұрын
Just goes to show what the old IH engineers said way back when they offered tractors with Hydro trans
@SHcinema
3 жыл бұрын
I own a gear drive L3200. I would not consider this a fair test of either tractor, however, each was unfair in a different fashion. One was unfair in that it was not allowed to slip, the other was unfair in that it was allowed to slip. So, in each case it's really about how much motive force the tires can muster. Having said that, the HST cannot ever equal the Gear Drive just by the nature of fluid drive (allowed to slip due to pressure relief, etc.) vs. physical drive (new clutch will stall out engine before it gives up). It's really just a test of how close the HST can come to the GD tractor. You don't purchase an HST for maximum drawbar pull, you purchase the HST for ease of forward vs. reverse and overall handling of the tractor, no moving a gear selector around, no clutch pedal to mess with, you don't have to stop the tractor to change gears through the selected power range. You could see that he was struggling with the gears in the GD where in HST he just moved a lever and gently moved the pedal. I love my gear drive L3200, but there are times that I'm working the loader or the box blade and wish I had that easy to use HST, but pushing into hard earth with the loader, the gear drives power comes into play but it's less convenient to use. If I was pulling a plow in a field though, I doubt I'd ever care about needing an HST. So really, you choose the transmission based on need, convenience and for some, money, but I think that's the least concern because if it was a high concern you wouldn't be looking at Kubota in the first place!
@bearkawiboy6246
10 ай бұрын
We’ve real world tested the same model John Deere 3320 M/T and HST, and it’s not even comparable when it comes to hydro vs M/t in horsepower! The manual just gets more power to the ground and it’s obvious in many situations. The only thing the hydros offer in my opinion is ease of use when it comes to changing direction.
@Shane_O.5158
4 жыл бұрын
i think hydrostat. it has many advantages, you can choose your speed from 0 to top speed, which means if your rotry hoeing or pulling thru hard soil you can slow down or speed up. gears are stuck with thair minimum speed , and if that's too fast it won't work well. only disadvantige is if you cut a hose your stuck where it runs out of fluid. ( which i have never heard of happening ).
@masoncarver460
3 жыл бұрын
I just purchased a l2501 hst and in low range its a beast will fill the box blade to full and spilling over even does well in med range i believe the hst can do just as good as gear drive in low range and prob pretty close in mid range either way glad i went with kubota though the l series is a great tractor i just like the 2501 for that old tractor feeling with no emissions junk
@Tomrryaniv
4 жыл бұрын
I guessed the gear drive would significantly pull better than the hydro only because of my personal experiences. I have an HST Kubota Grand L4060 and an ASV RT-40, both rated at 40HP. The RT-40 out performs the Kubota time and time again.
@kellyiliketractors4855
4 жыл бұрын
Wow! Neil you are taking a lot of heat for this video. I actually think it’s a very good video, thanks for posting. You certainly got everybody talking and thinking about the differences between these 2 tractors. I do believe the results are easy to misunderstand, and many people have touched on why this is the case. The force the tractor can pull is usually limited by tractive force. So things like the weight and tire type have a big impact. What this test shows is that the gear transmission has more mechanical advantage in high range 1st gear than the HST in high range. In high range 4th the results were much closer. It’s worth noting that HST in high was not able to spin the tires, while the gear transmission could easily in high 1st. If you re ran the test with the HST in low I believe that you will find the pulling force to be equal for both tractors as it will be limited by available traction. You can even run the gear transmission in low range, but I doubt you will achieve higher pulling value due to the limitations of traction. So what does this mean to a tractor owner? If you were able to achieve unlimited traction the gear transmission would always out pull the HST due to mechanical advantage assuming you don’t break anything. Understand that the gear ratios are designed to allow the tractor to operate at full engine speed and very low ground speed. Not because an insane amount of torque is required to pull things around.
@ritterjon
4 жыл бұрын
💥 That was very interesting, I didn’t think there would be such a big difference. *keep on tractoring!*
@2LateIWon
4 жыл бұрын
I think for kicks and Google's you should have done the hydro in low
@marklyons3792
4 жыл бұрын
Interesting test. Please do it again but on concrete in a range of gears. I have a hydro 3901 and I know 3rd gear is nothing but a road gear. Put it in 2 where most work is done and just pull load readings.
@tomanderson5405
4 жыл бұрын
I would like to see a moving pulling test. Trying to start a freight train with dead headed fluid is a tough job to start with. Put the load cell in between the tractor and something for a load sled and see how that changes the results.
@jbcowherder6210
4 жыл бұрын
manual trans will have less power loss due to no slippage. every good operator knows to get moving THEN drop down your disk/planer/etc. and engage the earth, so clutch wear will be minimal. FWIW: i own a M series hydrostat, but we just bought a manual trans L series because it will mainly be used for stationary work, where a hydrostat will just be uselessly pumping fluid for no reason.
@kevchard5214
4 жыл бұрын
I grew up on a farm when Deer first introduced its hydro trans (a long time ago). Pulling sugarcane trailers out of a muddy field with 100+ HP the hydro would bog before getting stuck but if you put a plow behind it they would not pull like a manual trans and also clutches on a manual is cheeper to replace than a clutch pack on a hydro. I own a Kubota 23HP now for gardening and I would not have a hydro on a small HP tractor unless all I was doing was cutting grass with it. Hydro looses a lot of HP.
@zoggrog8823
4 жыл бұрын
it is literally a 1 hp difference.
@johnspitz7933
4 жыл бұрын
Not going to lie Neil, that test was very flawed with both tractors. First of all, it should be done on pavement with both tractors. Second, the HST, HAS TO BE in LOW RANGE to make any significant torque to the wheels. They will never break loose in high range even in loose sand. Third, the gear drive should only be in 1’st or 2’nd gear, with the engine at about half throttle, and feathering the clutch carefully, to prevent the wheels from actually breaking loose. I’m pretty confident that you’ll see making another video, is very much worth it. For everyone.
@Blast357
4 жыл бұрын
On that size tractor... HST High range arent use to work, they are used to drive point A to point B, can't even break the tire loose!... try in Medium range or Low range. the manual will still win but not by 3 times... its a fact, manual will "always" win unless you have a real HST transmission like a dozer. but the HST on a compact tractor is nice to foward/reverse compare to manual shuttle. Hydro shuttle kill them all... (farm tractor!)
@BGWenterprises
3 жыл бұрын
Liquid in tires and pressure difference can make a difference. Makes me ponder wether the SST had liquid filled rear tires, at a lower pressure. Or the rear interlock was used on the SST over the HYD. Other then that, I know a HYD loses a ton of grunt in hi range. . not suprised by the large advantage of the SST over the HYD. 0.01c
@darthnatas953
Жыл бұрын
I imagine it depends on the tractor. My excavator is a hydrostat, so they certainly can be made strong enough to pull whatever you want, but this little tractor here with the hydrostat is weak sauce if it won't even spin the tires. Hydrostat tractors can overheat when doing steady hard work like bushhogging or plowing for a few hours. Don't like them for that reason. If I wanted to do loader work I would get a large skid steer or small track loader.
@freedomisntfree_44
4 жыл бұрын
I got a Mx 6000 hydro and if it’s in low you won’t stop it lol high gear is for one place to another
@demonadarius
3 жыл бұрын
So i just got the little B2401dt and noticed immediately it has way more pushing and pulling power than the b2601. However the b2601 is much simpler to use for loader work. Don't get me wrong you can obviously use a loader on the geardrives but the constant clunking around of the gears is very tiresome. Also the unsynchronized gears are hard to engage, double clutching is sometimes needed.
@garymccarver5006
2 жыл бұрын
I've had both and there's no doubt that the gear drive out pushes and out pulls the hydrostatic. The hydrostatic gives up too soon even when there's traction left. I'll never have another hydrostatic.
@davebarnessr.5805
4 жыл бұрын
Interesting test and comparison . I guess what your gonna do with it will decide which is best from your application, I have a L4701 Hydro with R4’s . I have all the power and torque I need regardless of what I’m doing. Had I not had a gravel drive that’s a quarter mile long I probably would have bought a smaller tractor, which I was borrowing ( I hate borrowing) to grade before, so when I got my own, I did not want one with the shortcomings of a smaller lighter tractor, now when I grade there is no screwing around, the Kubota monster knocks it out and don’t take all day to do it, nuff said.
@madman432000
Жыл бұрын
Results as expected. Gear trans should always pull harder. no slippage unless the clutch fries or tires break loose. Hydro will always have slippage and thus loss of pulling power. Wish my Sub-c had a gear trans.
@Wingman77tws
4 жыл бұрын
that is on par with what our L6060 with hydrostat does. even in mid range equivalent to 3rd gear in low range normally, it will not spin the tires. the hydrostat is convenient and really good most of the time, but it for sure is weak. and it is not power efficient.
@poorfatman5317
4 жыл бұрын
If you slip that hydrostat like you was you're going to burn it up it'll overheat that's why they don't even put it on bigger tractors because it can't handle heavy work for long periods of time
@elijahwerner6130
4 жыл бұрын
I've done a lot of work with both kinds. I like the hydrostat much better when doing loader work and other tasks requiring a lot of forward-and-back, or precision work. But for field work, give me a gear drive any day.
@tsafa
3 жыл бұрын
Is the PTO horsepower the same power that goes into the drive Wheels?
@extraacct478
4 жыл бұрын
Would like to have seen a closeup of your foot. From e whine on the hst it sounded like you were pressing down further as the test went on so to be fair you should also have shifted the manual to high gear (not just high range). If you want max power out of an hst you barely press it down. That’s the equivalent of 1st gear. Didn’t sound like that’s what you did so please clarify.
@2009rummell
4 жыл бұрын
I learned something new. Didnt know you could get a small tractor that's gear drive anymore
@andrewhutson2824
4 жыл бұрын
Great video! Loved the surprise on your face!
@jessicacopeland1644
3 жыл бұрын
Hydro trans is a useful option, but only for those who need repetitive direction changes or widely variable speed control (mowing is a good example)... where the productivity of speed and direction control make up for the loss of fuel efficiency and positive torque. Gear trans is better suited to those who spend more time working at a consistent speed and direction (tillage, row cropping, etc.)... where the positive transfer, consistent speed, and fuel efficiency is of primary importance.
@leedawson8301
4 жыл бұрын
Just a thought, the further you press the forward pedal down on the hydro transmission the faster you go. In saying that, the clutch system is different. While the manual transmission pulls by clutch release the hydro pulls by pressure. You won't get the same pressure in high range hydro as you will in high range manual. The true test would work best in low range for both tractors. However, while the manual transmission pulls by the clutch dump, the hydro will fail because of safety features in the pump. The manual will force breakage while the hydro pressure guards against it. Personally I prefer the hydro based on my terrain and my force in getting it done. In the manual transmission I would break my tractor.
@BaronBoar
Жыл бұрын
A 2001 B7500 gear drive, is that pretty similar to a cars manual transmission?
@brockbyers8075
4 жыл бұрын
Fun test though not many or any are doing this thanks for sharing.
@ironmalice93
2 жыл бұрын
I would love to see this video with the MX5400 hydrostat vs gear. I would also have purchased a Mx6000 if it were offered in gear driven rather than in just hydrostat.
@walz1414
2 жыл бұрын
You might have said and I missed it, but are the rear tires ballasted in either machine? Found my L3130 gear drive pulled a lot harder after I refilled the beet juice in both tires (leaky valve stem).
@scottyb4606
2 жыл бұрын
Do it again using all the ranges of the HST. Nobody is going to try to pull a dead load in high gear. Or better yet - put your meter away and chain those tractors together and have a good old fashion pull off.
@dougpeirce726
4 жыл бұрын
Assuming the two tractors weight the same, same front to rear weight, have the exact same gear ratio and tire sizes, The geared transmission will always have a greater pull force. The hydro transmission is more ergonomic friendly on the operator and in the transition from static to kinetic ground forces at the wheels, the hydro might be easier for the operator to maintain a more consistent pull force. The volumetric and mechanical efficiencies of the hydro trans is approximately 87%. The overall efficiency of the manual transmission with a new clutch will be about 93%. It is simple physics....
@johntmccrakin109
4 жыл бұрын
Redo! Do over. Low Range, 4wd, turtle mode and diff locked for both. Do it right. Put the money where the KZitem’s is.
@michaelbayerl1683
4 жыл бұрын
Would really have liked to see each in lowest gear for more real world idea of max pull. But, thanks again anyway.
@davedunn2124
4 жыл бұрын
Would of been interesting to see what the hydro would of done in low for contrast
@dwawa23
4 жыл бұрын
Neil this stuff is fun, thanks for doing it, but this one is just bad experiment design. You went to the point of breaking ground contact with the geared, but did not get that much power put to the ground with the high range on the HST. Putting it in medium would have likely gotten there. Also as you point out not comparing gear ratios across the machines and doing a test that is somewhat equivalent makes the whole thing pretty pointless. I thought from the title you were going to have an actual pull test between the two, but difficult of course with new equipment. Maybe some comparable used pieces will become available at some point. Thanks for pumping out content none the less!
@robertheinkel6225
4 жыл бұрын
Hydros are not used for tractor pulls, but really shine in other areas. For loader use, the hydro wins, and you will never wear out a clutch. For hard pulls like field work, the gear drive shines. So short answer, if you are using the clutch a lot, use the hydro.
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