The supraphysiological delts have entered the chat
@edwinatwell7423
3 жыл бұрын
Derek doesn't have delts. He has bowling balls istg.
@furezj
3 жыл бұрын
LBGTQ group needs to see this. Every argument that I hear in the news is about not giving her the opportunity to do something she loves. They never bring up the fact that they're taking away potential opportunities from the women that have worked very hard to get where they are but cannot compete with the physical differences granted to a transgender woman.
@axreason
3 жыл бұрын
lots of lgbtq people are opposed to MTF women competing in the women's category, myself included. what we're seeing on tv and in the media are bullshit discussions produced by major news networks who always want opposing sides to fight, in order to make "good tv".
@danielm6871
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah all they do is relate it back to racism. Or There is no such thing as a fair playing field
@darkwaterbucket4268
3 жыл бұрын
As a part of the LGBT community I do not claim this bs
@franug
3 жыл бұрын
They just dont care about women🤷♀️
@mikesignorella9249
3 жыл бұрын
The stupid part is that she DOES have the opportunity to do something she loves. She could compete in the mens division. It's her decision to take womens hormones and destroy any chance she would have at competing with men. Nobody is taking away her ability to compete fairly against men but herself.
@user-cf1iw7tf3k
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine if Lasha transitioned
@hamletshero
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly 😂😂😂😂
@MrHyjac
3 жыл бұрын
This comment is fucking gold!!!
@mikeyvesperlick6982
3 жыл бұрын
Lasha probably transitioned into 3 guys already 🤫
@CharlieAligaen
3 жыл бұрын
Name would be Shasha
@unclejay9205
3 жыл бұрын
Hahaha! He'd smoke everyone. Funny yet unfair
@Yawdan
3 жыл бұрын
So I guess they are getting rid of anti-doping.
@andrewlowman8073
3 жыл бұрын
Would it matter in weightlifting? All the top athletes use PEDs
@larryboi2706
3 жыл бұрын
@@andrewlowman8073 probably bye bye to olympiCs
@superliro100
3 жыл бұрын
@@andrewlowman8073 What is top for you? Olympia medallist, Continental medaillist, National medailist? Or even lower.
@Yawdan
3 жыл бұрын
@@andrewlowman8073 not all the top athletes compete in a different gender category.
@MitgliedT5
3 жыл бұрын
nope, she has to keep a certain Testosteronlevel. The criticism is more about the physique, the muscle mass and stuff.
@evisceratemtg6141
3 жыл бұрын
Unpopular opinion: they should have their own class.
@uncanaldeentretenimiento9918
3 жыл бұрын
Yes.
@johnsontan345
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, i'd still tune in to see the shitshow
@juliangernos
3 жыл бұрын
Its quite a popular opinion actually.
@jenhardin6593
3 жыл бұрын
Not unpopular! You are correct! Let them complete against another transitioning male. Not against born females
@winstonsmithsoul
3 жыл бұрын
There is one, it’s the special Olympics.
@HickLif3
3 жыл бұрын
Like you said, if you go from not even coming close to medalling, transitioning, and then winning championships there is something wrong. Imagine if a man did that, quit competing for a few years after being very mediocre and all of a sudden starts winning championships with monster level testosterone. Everyone would call foul
@ficolas2
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine an actually elite athlete transitions, and then beats everyone by a stupidly high amount like 100kg on the total
@HickLif3
3 жыл бұрын
@@ficolas2 didn’t someone recently transition and break world records in powerlifting by a LOT. It only got recalled after the massive backlash
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
lasha literally did this and the people love him LMAO
@ficolas2
3 жыл бұрын
@@deliciousdishes4531 what? Lasha has never changed his gender wtf
@ficolas2
3 жыл бұрын
Oh you mean being mediocre and then winning championships Well of course lasha dopes, everyone juices lol
@Djehuty99
3 жыл бұрын
Female category exists for a reason, going through male puberty, being a male for 35 years has given her huge advantage over biological female lifters, it's completely unfair to every other competitor she's going against.
@Johnny-Joseph
3 жыл бұрын
Unfair? What does fairness have to do with sports? Normal male T levels range from 280-1100 ng/dl, with elite athletes often exceeding these ranges. Is it unfair a 280 ngml man will compete against man with 4x the testosterone levels? By your logic there should be inter-male categories too.
@omariscovoador7486
3 жыл бұрын
@@Johnny-Joseph if you are a male with shitty genetics you can't still compete, but against other Males, not try to enter female competitions like a coward Just to win something.
@Djehuty99
3 жыл бұрын
@@Johnny-Joseph what's with the lame attempt at strawman? What's your point anyway? Fact is that she had every physical advantage that comes from being a biological male for 35 years, larger bone density, more muscle mass, ALOT more strength in upper body (on average biological males are 2/3 stronger than females in upper body and 1/3 stronger in lower body). Biological females who make it to the top of rankings and qualify for Olympics are both genetically most gifted/talented for and hardest workers. They qualified because of their hard work and talent. Laurel is, lets not beat around the bush, at best an below average super heavy male weightlifter, but then she goes to female category, crushes all competition and is competing for world records? What are you even on about? It's the definition of unfair to every biological female that has been busting her ass to get to the top.
@Johnny-Joseph
3 жыл бұрын
@@Djehuty99 if you can't see the point then you need to take logic lessons
@peekaboojujitsoo525
3 жыл бұрын
stop calling that guy a she....he's fucking man for christ sake
@ClayHales
3 жыл бұрын
There is the other end of this as well. By allowing 4x testosterone, that seems to mean there is supra physiological level of testosterone for women that won't be a failed test.
@paulallenscards
3 жыл бұрын
Supra
@WhaddupImJohn
3 жыл бұрын
Toyota
@ClayHales
3 жыл бұрын
@@paulallenscards touche.
@lutze5086
3 жыл бұрын
I think that rule only applies to .. men
@ridhabenammar715
3 жыл бұрын
@@lutze5086 No it doesn't only apply to "men". It applies to all women. It was created because of the intersex women who had insane amount of testosterone. So now all women can dope near that level without raising red flags. That rule is still rushed though as, even if the reason was to be more inclusive to certain intersex people, it just allows women to dope to higher levels.
@cherries4life387
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine being the 4th place finisher at the Olympics if Laurel medals. Might be your best chance for an Olympic medal and then somebody who has benefited from being a man for decades beats you
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine being 2,30m tall, and then tiny Naim Suleymanoglu comes and outlifts you! A guy who benifitted from being tiny all his life! Truly unfair. It's almost like fairness in extreme sports is a fucking laughable concept.
@schmaloney
3 жыл бұрын
@@deliciousdishes4531 the one thing is caused by coincedence and nature. The other thing is a decision made by human.
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
@@schmaloney well depends on what you mean by "decision" here. Cause trans people don't transition randomly for no reason. It's also been naim's decision to go to the doctor when he felt bad, presumably.
@eloy2133
3 жыл бұрын
@@deliciousdishes4531 the decision is competing in the other sex category. That's what's not fair to cis women competing.
@kylephipps4744
3 жыл бұрын
@@deliciousdishes4531 yes sports are about using your body to your advantage but there are barriers like weight classes and division based off your sex not your gender women's league is for bio women not so much trans women because gender doesn't change your sex
@epaminontas6972
3 жыл бұрын
Speak your mind Zack, your following has enough sense to realize the situation is ridiculous. I agree 100%
@epaminontas6972
3 жыл бұрын
@@John_MySpace I see that, but what does it matter? As long as the people who are engaged in the sport understand his position then other ppl dont matter. The mob is always gonna be bitching about stupid shit, it's better to disconnect yourself from Twitter and the cesspool it houses.
@epaminontas6972
3 жыл бұрын
@@John_MySpace perhaps, but look at people like ben shapiro or joe rogan. No matter how much controversy they get into, they have sponsors every episode of their podcast. And honestly if zack did get "cancelled", the Twitter mob would forget about him in a week. Plus he holds a pretty popular position backed by undeniable numbers.
@epaminontas6972
3 жыл бұрын
@@John_MySpace that's true, but also crowder has his mug club, so hes making a shit load of money regardless of sponsors. I dont know how much zack makes off of merch and his website, but he presumably relies on sponsors and stuff. I get that hes trying to stay away from politics, but this issue needs to be addressed as it is very important to the future of weightlifting
@dogico
3 жыл бұрын
Love that people preface their shitty opinions with "hope I don't get canceled by twitter," literal virtue signaling right there.
@epaminontas6972
3 жыл бұрын
@@dogico not really, he is genuinly scared of the backlash that could occur from him voicing his opinion
@armwrestlingfan6804
3 жыл бұрын
I just want the south park episode to be real
@jer3887
3 жыл бұрын
I'm not here to talk about my transition!
@tylorstreett7824
3 жыл бұрын
Awwww yeeeeeah, brother!
@warfreddy6968
3 жыл бұрын
Devon Larratt should transition and just curl the weight at competition.
@Vinsanity_93
3 жыл бұрын
i knew this comment was coming
@ggarr91
3 жыл бұрын
I got you homie
@thefourthbrotherkaramazov245
3 жыл бұрын
The most surprising thing about all this is that people actually have to explain this.
@syahrules
3 жыл бұрын
Laurel Hubbard is 43 years old? isn't that really really old for an elite level Weightlifting athlete in general?
@edwinatwell7423
3 жыл бұрын
That's ANCIENT for the sport.
@Yawdan
3 жыл бұрын
Not when you have the super-soilder serum and learned the sexy jutsu.
@PaulSteere
3 жыл бұрын
Yes it’s really old. Most elite lifters tend to peak in their 20’s and by their 30’s have either lost their place in national squads to younger lifters or have retired for whatever reason. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is Lu who is 36 - a real anomaly - but he would have retired already if the Olympics hadn’t been delayed a year. As far as the women’s supers go where Hubbard competes, gold is 100% going to Li Wenwen who is the ripe old age of 21.
@syahrules
3 жыл бұрын
@@Yawdan Oiroke No Jutsu did save the shinobi world!
@syahrules
3 жыл бұрын
@@PaulSteere Zack's video with Max Aita discussion on MEV and MRV made a lot of sense to convince me that Lu's is definitely on that Winstrol juice.
@00Wra7h
3 жыл бұрын
Im from NZ and I watched the interview of one of our ladies getting told she's not going to the games as this trans person has beaten her and taken the spot. when she said what options did she have they pretty much said either drop a weight class (a total of 15kgs I believe) or retire . I'm super happy when NZ wins any medals in the games as were a small place of just over 5 million people and it's great to see , but this , if she gets any medal I'll be ashamed of what has happened as we all know this could be the domino effect to woman losing in most sports vs the trans contenders if their fully included going forward
@rosemaryconstable5620
3 жыл бұрын
It was 18 kilos in 3 months to drop a weight class, she did it then told the selectors to get fluffed. Good on her!
@skellt
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine this scenario if an elite top-5 male athlete transitioned and dropped to the required T level for 12 months, say 260-280ng/dl. Would their total suddenly be comparable to that of an elite female athlete in their weight class? Do you think it would change people's minds on how ridiculous of a stance to take it would be to claim that that's fine?
@supernoodles908
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine lasha...
@DBD253
3 жыл бұрын
@@supernoodles908 post doping ban Lasha transitioning would be a sight to see.
@coachcoopfitness
3 жыл бұрын
I think thats the best way to point out the ridiculousness. If you had Shi Zhiyong go to -300ng/Dl, he would be beating women in his weight class totals by a hundred freaking kilos.
@supernoodles908
3 жыл бұрын
@@coachcoopfitness yeah, pretty much
@branfashionistad7579
3 жыл бұрын
@@DBD253 o
@highintensity415
3 жыл бұрын
Crazy nowadays you have to preface your argument with so many disclaimers and clarifications just to be able to state the obvious
@danielm6871
3 жыл бұрын
Crazy, stupid! you have to be an apologist and hope the lefties don't come for you. No one i know irl supports this craziness, I dont understand why a minority has so much power!
@bobbyb4024
3 жыл бұрын
@@danielm6871 "why minority has so much power" What?
@danielm6871
3 жыл бұрын
@@bobbyb4024 why do minorities have so much influence over the majority?
@janinebelleestrada7096
3 жыл бұрын
@@danielm6871 trends
@bagofsteel9152
3 жыл бұрын
@@bobbyb4024 How could you miss the context of Daniel M's point? What, did you potentially think he was speaking about race or something after the precursor topic of transgenderism being so obvious??? Cut that out.
@troyb5843
3 жыл бұрын
At least Li Wenwen is gonna win gold by 40+ kg, but imagine missing out on a medal because of this.
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
so unfair, this transgender person is just at such a high advantage becuase of this!!! Oh wait their lifts are dwarved by this chinese girl. It's almost as if this is bs lmao
@troyb5843
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine missing the point by this much. Zach would lose to Li Wenwen too, no offense, but that doesn’t mean it would be fair to let him compete. This is a tough problem but the conversation shouldn’t be driven by whether the advantage Laurel has is so overwhelming as to be insurmountable, but rather by whether or not it is enough of an advantage as to violate the spirit of sport. Which for reasons outlined here, in this case for the sport of weightlifting, it certainly seems to. Trans inclusivity is a worthy pursuit for sports, there will be a learning curve as the world and each sanctioning body tries to figure this out. The point here is that THIS solution seems to be a bad one. There is ambiguity and nuance here, too much to get into in the comments really, but denying totally the advantage Laurel clearly has is not a productive way to approach the conversation.
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
@@troyb5843 there's no such thing as fairness in sports. So stop pretending there is. There is no such thing as spirit of sport, that's a laughable concept. People are doped to the gills, people are supported by their countries, people have vast genetic differences. If naim comes and outlifts me I'm not gonna cry foul either, just cause he's a tiny guy. That's how things work. Sport is not and will never be fair. It's a giant money and propaganda machine and nothing more. If you think this is a problem, well then you gotta think about what having a female category means. You can't discern male from female easily, simply because sex doesn't work on a dichotomy, it's a spectrum. Female categories have always been an uphill battle because of this.
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
@waoh3 All these women are also gonna lose to Wenwen to no fault of their own. If I'm 2.3m and have to lift against Naim I also have a severe disadvantage. Sports is always unfair. The reverse problem, which no one seems to ever mention (hmmm I wonder why?????), is that the rule "you compete against what you were assigned at birth", means that women have to compete against trans men. That literally means that women have to compete against men. And it has historically been a much bigger impact than trans women athletes. So either you kick out trans athletes completely, just so you can have your female division. And that's just not a justified thing to do.
@theakbars98
3 жыл бұрын
@@deliciousdishes4531 Laurel Hubbard is 41. Even Lu will stop competing at that age. 41 year olds don't medal. Edit: and with dogshit form to boot.
@gordiebrooks
3 жыл бұрын
How can you possibly allow 4 times an elite woman athlete’s testosterone level and say that’s fair to women !!
@nicholastartaglia4276
3 жыл бұрын
I did a field study on this topic in college and had a mixed political viewed school. The only conclusion during my presentation that I suggested and more than 3/4 of both sides agreed to was a transgender division. The only problem with this however, was the number of actual participants that would compete in it. I have my own point of view but this topic needs an actual open discussion and solution since it’s becoming more common in all sports.
@tobiasbrunner4720
3 жыл бұрын
also the lack of interest from the public (= no money)
@theodorehoffer6810
3 жыл бұрын
What I found was a genuine lack of interest in female competition. More people participate in gender arguments and title 9 than watch an event.
@nicholastartaglia4276
3 жыл бұрын
@@theodorehoffer6810 that’s honestly the same in any sport. In tennis, they have “equal” pay from majors even though women have less play time on the field and they have to have their match before the men since everyone would leave after the men’s finals.
@ks7266
3 жыл бұрын
@@theodorehoffer6810 Normally, male divisions are older and, well, more impressive. The majority of the weighlifting comunity is masculine, so its not a surprise that men receives more time in the sport
@nicholastartaglia4276
3 жыл бұрын
@@ks7266 not really just the weightlifting community. Sports in general draw mainly masculine crowds. And it makes sense since males typically on average outperform females by a lot.
@lloydo-za
3 жыл бұрын
Any other weight lifters competing at elite level at 43 years old?
@nathr7375
3 жыл бұрын
@Michael McVady u need to edit that but i agree.
@marks-0-0
3 жыл бұрын
Is there be any Trans males competing in weightlifting at Tokyo?
@realfinepork7308
3 жыл бұрын
@@strange-universe powerlifting and strongman are far less explosive so makes sense they peak later
@dianaflowers715
3 жыл бұрын
I agree. So unfair to all the women who have worked so hard.
@Sheabutta587
3 жыл бұрын
I wonder, if she does manage to medal at Tokyo, will there be an appeal or something. I can't imagine China/Russia/etc being very happy about that when those athletes livelihoods and future careers depend on those medals
@Banana_Split_Cream_Buns
3 жыл бұрын
What about all of the developing world, for instance? Countries outside the North America - Western Europe - Australasia bloc simply just won't put up with it. My own country had a MTF athlete named Hannah Mouncey. Google her. She used to be an elite male athlete of the highest athletic standard and a massive frame and you see her compete against tiny little child sized women from Central Asian or wherever and it's just not right. It would be funny if it weren't true.
@InTrancedState
3 жыл бұрын
They'll start transitioning men over to women categories and taking a massive advantage of that new system. Then we will see something done about it. This gap will be exploited to the max until it's figured out and closed
@GGCandle
3 жыл бұрын
Every woman in his class needs to boycott the competition. United they take the stand.
@BJerrell
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine Eddie hall/Hafthor transitioning and absolutely demolishing women's powerlifting and strongwoman till the end of time
@danielkelleher7246
3 жыл бұрын
They would lose 70% of their muscle mass by taking years of testosterone blockers.
@BJerrell
3 жыл бұрын
@@danielkelleher7246 would only need to keep testosterone at 288 Ng/dl which is still 4x more than biological women. Even if the amount of muscle isn't the same (and you're assuming 70% loss of mass based on nothing), try comparing a Worlds Strongest Man. Literally the strongest man in the world, to this Olympic weightlifter who was mediocre as a man (compared to men's elite/world class level athletes) and now that suddenly a woman (in her 40s now mind you, well past peak Olympic competitive age) and she is still a dominant force in the sport, winning championships and guaranteed a spot at the Olympics. My point being, if this is how a mediocre male athlete can perform as a woman (while suppressing testosterone to low male levels still over 4x higher than females) imagine a literal world champion transitioning and competing. You can argue whatever you want but they would absolutely crush natural born women. There is no other logical conclusion.
@kevinblank1481
3 жыл бұрын
@@danielkelleher7246 no they wouldnt since that rule only applies to weightlifting, not to untested powerlifting and strongwoman
@able75dev60
3 жыл бұрын
Please let this happen!
@joshuaconklin8378
3 жыл бұрын
@@danielkelleher7246 >70% You just made up that number. It's easier to maintain muscle mass than build it I don't think there's any evidence you lose that much muscle in transition.
@Harlequin52
3 жыл бұрын
People say there aren't enough transgenders to compete in their own category. I say: And why is this a female athletes problem?
@mojo8094
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for speaking up, Zack! I've had conversations with people (who obviously don't even lift) who are deadass 100% convinced that a year of hormone replacement therapy nulls any, ANY advantages transwomen have over born women in strength sports. If you don't blindly agree with them they will call you transphobic!i This is ridiculous!
@amorfati4927
3 жыл бұрын
It’s so simple it doesn’t even need explanation. Regardless of your beliefs on trans, it is by definition heavy doping. You would be banned on retroactive testing and like Derek pointed out compared to the hyper elite you are still heavily doping. That’s just talking about levels alone without getting into body structure.
@ridhabenammar715
3 жыл бұрын
Good thing everyone is doping at that level
@amorfati4927
3 жыл бұрын
@@ridhabenammar715 Of course, and again this is just on the doping part. Comparing the dopiest of dopers to the couple people that are fairly or maybe even completely clean at the elite level... I’d be willing to bet their doping advantage isn’t comparable to at a bare minimum 4x the Test levels at time or competition and if you want to count training in which people are tested and you can go back to when Laural identified as male because retroactive tests are a thing that people are disqualified where on the lowest level of a normal male compared to a genetic freak female it’s 4x Test and on the genetic freak male to a lower T female it’s like 119x the T. Trenbaloni sandwiches or what ever I’m willing to bet don’t have near that equivalent of advantage. That doesn’t even get into bone density, level lengths, the fact that their hip structures aren’t even remotely close because one is meant for carrying and shooting a child out of their body where one is not and a list can go on that is far more different than, say Michael Phelps and his flipper feet and long arms won the genetic lottery.
@ThomasShatter
3 жыл бұрын
@@amorfati4927 "That doesn’t even get into bone density, level lengths, the fact that their hip structures" You know that all those things differ even in cis women population? Btw we know for a fact that trans women performance in running actually dropped to the level of cis women. Almost as if hormonal therapy actually worked...
@cberry8939
3 жыл бұрын
Look up Women's Masters Records. The one I found isn't up to date (September 1st, 2019), so it shows the previous record for women's 87kg+ for ages 40-44. Snatch 77 kg + Clean and Jerk 102 kg for a 179 kg total... this genetic phenom obviously stomps all of these records
@stfuna4b
3 жыл бұрын
That’s literally so low, lots of amateur guys have those numbers
@ricardotezza
3 жыл бұрын
Tô be honest. I hope she wins just to see the world burns and maybe to wake up the female sports scene.
@JeewanthaBandara
3 жыл бұрын
She’s not strong enough for that unfortunately.
@cherries4life387
3 жыл бұрын
yeh no chance of winning because of Li Wenwen (not sure how her name's spelt) but she could medal and that'd be disastrous.
@JeewanthaBandara
3 жыл бұрын
@Sloth FromTheGooniez Born a dude yes. But I don’t mind call her a female. It’s the competition and fairness aspect of this I disagree with. I just don’t think she should be competing against women. That’s all
@iskenderryskulov3452
3 жыл бұрын
@@JeewanthaBandara isn't that weird? You cannot tell a person to not to call himself"she" but it should not be your obligation to call him the way he wants to be called. Isn't that a freedom of word?
@jaivl1106
3 жыл бұрын
@Sloth FromTheGooniez She's not. The discussion is about the fairness of women's competition including athletes with stronger physiological advantages than even PEDs, not if she's a women or not.
@PapaBurgandy111
3 жыл бұрын
The fact that this is even a topic for discussion is absolutely insane. It is not bigotry to point out this athlete has had enormous genetic advantages and her competing against women is unfair. It is going to destroy the sport completely, if it is permitted to continue.
@michaelmcgee335
10 ай бұрын
He not her. Get it right.
@PapaBurgandy111
10 ай бұрын
@michaelmcgee335 I did get it right. It takes absolutely no effort on my part to respect her preferred pronouns.
@MrHyjac
3 жыл бұрын
I’d love to hear what the biological women competitors think of this.
@עידונווה-ק4ס
3 жыл бұрын
They won’t open their mouth, exactly like they didn’t have the guts to say anything to Semenya
@whospiltmybeer
3 жыл бұрын
@@עידונווה-ק4ס it's not about not having guts, but being afraid of gettiing "cancelled"
@עידונווה-ק4ס
3 жыл бұрын
@@whospiltmybeer That is guts by definition- Doing what you believe is right whatever the cost is.
@Raymanray85
3 жыл бұрын
They either agree or they get labelled “terfs” which is a “trans exclusionary radical feminist” you’re either in the movement or you’re the enemy. Imagine being an aspiring young teenage athlete, why even bother?
@MrHyjac
3 жыл бұрын
@@Raymanray85 Also does this not break wadas doping rules? 1st potential to enhance or enhances performance and 3rd violating spirit of the sport?
@itsRaquelCruz
3 жыл бұрын
I agree Mr Girafa! I feel like this is something federations should start thinking about. It's not fair keeping things the way they are. I mean, trans athletes exist and there aren't enough of them to get their own category. Until then, I believe there could be ways to make things a bit more cohesive. In team sports it's definitely easier, maybe make it so that the teams have equal or similar numbers of trans athletes. But when it comes to individual sports, it's sooo tricky. Not talking about Laurel specifically, but maybe having them compete in different weight classes than their actual weight? Having specifics for athletes who transition later in life vs early in life? I really don't know, but it's definitely something to think about.
@aricrufle408
3 жыл бұрын
Chris Chan is getting strong god damn.
@PiedPiper97601
3 жыл бұрын
You are spot on. It's not fair. I can see and support trans females who transition at or before puberty. And what Laurel is thinking, what level of entitlement is going on there, with her with her coaches, with her country... it's hard to quantify or even speak about without the grotesque absurdity stinking up the room.
@axreason
3 жыл бұрын
thing is, most NZ weightlifters are thinking what the rest of the world is thinking. especially the women she's competing against.
@emiljorgensen5340
3 жыл бұрын
I agree, if somone transitions early in puberty I think it would be fair to let them compete, but not otherwise.
@hitoshura2800
3 жыл бұрын
@@emiljorgensen5340 no, never let them compete against women ever, they aren't women. The argument is "they wouldn't get male puberty" and hence none of the advantages, but would you allow a male who is built like a bean pole and had puberty issues and development issues compete against women just because they're at a handicap too? No. I'm a skinny dude and if I entered a competition in boxing against professional women in my weight class I'd probably get mauled. Should I be allowed to compete because I don't stand a chance? NO. the different sex categories exist for a reason, if in the end we're going by "well they don't have advantages because they didn't go through puberty" we might aswell abolish all sex divisions and let people compete based on ability regardless of sex. Let them have their own league. There's nothing wrong with that
@paulshearer8762
3 жыл бұрын
If this sht goes on, I'm not watching or supporting athletics anymore
@Franklin-zc2jo
3 жыл бұрын
As a not particularly successful powerlifter with 185kg high bar back squat I learnt to clean and press with youtube not taking it seriously just couple of days a week playing around. 3 months later I managed a clean and jerk of 115kgs at high 80s body weight. Thats 15kgs off the best clean and jerk at the 2018 womens 90kg class at the last commonwealth games. I dont know if transwomen should or should not be able to compete with cis women but transwomen are going to start winning all the competitions.
@ah7027
3 жыл бұрын
well the best cj in that event was actually 142kg but i get your point either way lol. Also if laurel hadnt hurt herself she wouldve easily won that event which is a joke. she snatched 120 on her only attempt. that was 7 above the next girls best.
@bonesh0ckerz
3 жыл бұрын
@@ah7027 Calling him a female is rather amusing. Western culture continues to amaze me (of denial, delusional, defiance and lack of any logical thought ).
@MRDAthe5TH
3 жыл бұрын
Everyone should have seen this shit coming, when they named that Kardashian dude. Woman of the year.
@sz5263
3 жыл бұрын
An insult to real women.
@sethcondon4697
3 жыл бұрын
Don’t let them shame you into fear Zack. Speak your mind, tell the truth.
@GPrinceps
3 жыл бұрын
Impossible to "tell the truth" when he is still referring to Hubbard as "she". A biological male is not a "she". Never will be. Identity has no effect whatsoever on human biology.
@Jk21053
3 жыл бұрын
@@GPrinceps exactly it's wrong
@traviss9059
3 жыл бұрын
The Guardian 100% put 10 nmo/l instead of 288 ng/dl because it's less used and looks like a smaller number to normal people.
@jonnym610
3 жыл бұрын
Isn't that the measurement the IOC uses? Could just be that
@sergiocalderon6325
3 жыл бұрын
I don't know what the actual rules state but if the rules specify nmol/L, then it would make sense the guardian would use the same. Few countries, namely usa, use Ng/dl. A marathon isn't defined as 40 whatever kilometers it's defined as 26.2 miles even if they are the exact same length.
@urgamecshk
3 жыл бұрын
Nmol Is a "metric" thing. My reports on Canada are also in them (33 😎)
@hititwithit
3 жыл бұрын
@@sergiocalderon6325 As far as I know nmol/L is the international standard, and (as usual) pretty much only the USA uses a different metric. And the marathon is defined as exactly 42.195 km. The distance in miles is based on that.
@leftphilange69
3 жыл бұрын
There are literally men denied TRT at this level. This is absurdly high for a female. This is like a man being at 5000 ng/dl which would likely take upwards of a gram of gear a week to achieve.
@ikeeverett
3 жыл бұрын
I'm grateful that you were respectful in your critique - using her correct name and pronouns, even when referring to her pre-transition career, etc. This video shows that it's possible to criticize a trans person's choices without being transphobic.
@gixelz
3 жыл бұрын
yes - i am in the same boat. it's possible to disagree with things (sometimes) that have to do with LGBT stuff - doesn't make us transphobic or homophobic. we could be wrong (we're wrong about a lot of things, right?) We could be right. glad he was respectful too.
@jlacr8056
3 жыл бұрын
what’s your Twitter
@stanpokhilko7346
3 жыл бұрын
Let’s just stop having women’s sports at all, we will just call it sports where the best of the best compete against each other no matter what their gender is.
@rtpimAPEX
3 жыл бұрын
You would see a drastic decrease in women's participation, aren't we supposed to encourage it?...
@GGCandle
3 жыл бұрын
I mean- they wanted equality....
@mr.anderson2807
3 жыл бұрын
Exactly and in my opinion they brought this on themselves with feminism and wokeness
@gsp4prez
22 күн бұрын
@@mr.anderson2807are the wokes in the room with us right now?
@MrAckers75
3 жыл бұрын
Caster Semenya had 5nmol when tested and even then the iaaf said it was extremely high for a woman so 10nmol is a bad joke
@0penthaughtz
3 жыл бұрын
Hopefully after this person defeats all the biological women they will be competing against, and sets a new record. That's so impossible for any biological woman to beat, then maybe we can finally have a honestly conversation about, gender and or at least steroid use in sports.
@ctcv-to8kq
3 жыл бұрын
Not gonna happen. Hubbard's current total is roughly 47 kilos below the current total record. He'll never get there. No medal for Hubbard, none.
@0penthaughtz
3 жыл бұрын
@@ctcv-to8kq The IWF restructured their weight classes in 2018, some previous records may be nullified.
@ctcv-to8kq
3 жыл бұрын
@@0penthaughtz Yes, I know that. She set the new total record in 2019. All previous records are nullified for PED purposes (primarily). Do you think Hubbard stands a chance at the podium? Just curious.
@0penthaughtz
3 жыл бұрын
@@ctcv-to8kq 60/40 chance of a gold metal and 50/50 chance of setting a new record. Both are possible, but I guess well have to wait and see.
@ctcv-to8kq
3 жыл бұрын
@@0penthaughtz Yeah, it'll be interesting one way or the other. I know I'll be watching.
@BoereViking
3 жыл бұрын
Why don't we ever see FTMs competing just all the MTFs....
@jonbell6355
3 жыл бұрын
This is very easily explained, And as i have no fear or the woke or any other type of community, its like this... If you let men compete in women's sports and lets say how it is this is a man being discussed in the video, then women's sports will become pointless. Its not difficult to fix just ban any competitor that was born male. they might fancy being a sportsperson but unfortunately that is not their destiny. life's tough get over it all you wannabe trans sports guys out there, go find another purpose in life.
@jacobitosuperstar
2 жыл бұрын
or, they should have their category or a genderless category, because they can't also compete as men. And I think that it is unfair to not let them compete, but we have to work out another solution that is not just jamming them in the female category and ruin the sport...
@LucasDimoveo
3 жыл бұрын
I think this is a scenario in which broader social movements (which I wholly agree with) miss the mark on domain-specific issues. I'm sure we'll collectively correct our mistakes as we move forward into the future
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
the problem is that this "domain specific issue" is actually tackled by the broader movement: You can't easily discern between male and female in every case, simple as that.
@PkGregor
3 жыл бұрын
"That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for womankind."
@AruMaLyon
3 жыл бұрын
“That’s one small step to the sidelines for cis genders, one hyperspace leap for trans-kind!”
@ZoeCuiM
3 жыл бұрын
Here's an easy solution. If an athlete loves the sports enough, the athlete should hold off the transition till the career is over.
@Taziod
3 жыл бұрын
Goes from lackluster mens weightlifter to elite with seemingly worse totals. I don't know what else needs to be said, just flat out isn't fair.
@axreason
3 жыл бұрын
i'm very happy you made this video. when Eoin posted about it a couple of days ago, i felt that it was necessary that someone with a big audience would talk about it. it's a very serious issue, and there won't be any change if no-one's willing to speak up in a serious manner. people can bitch all they want by ridiculing it, but that won't make anything better. i really do feel for Laurel, she's facing a LOT of backlash, hate and transphobia. nevertheless, my empathy and respect for her as a person, does not matter when it comes to the question of her competing in the women's category. i've always thought of sex as a spectrum, but the fact of the matter is that most people are born with distinctly female or male bodies. after going through puberty, no matter how low a MTF woman's t-levels are, she has a physical foundation that benefits from being born male. i don't even care about the current t-levels, they're irrelevant. especially in strength-based sports. it is flat out unfair to other athletes, and hypocritical of both the IWF and the IOC to change the rules like this. it's as if they thought "oh well, i guess we'll just have to let them compete or else we'll be dealing with a lot of backlash". but it's like you said - we should't care about what outsiders think, most people don't even know what weightlifting is. the decision has to be based on science and facts, not their fear of monetary losses in the form of lost sponsorships or whatever. this is a nuanced discussion, and unfortunately we're likely to hear a lot of bullshit from "both sides" if the media picks up on it. knowing that Fox news is going to run with this shit and use it as en excuse to hate trans people, sickens me. this is not the same as allowing trans children to play on their volleyball teams. thanks for being respectful, Zack! we can all benefit from just a bit more empathy, especially the weightlifting community. it's okay to rant, it's great - as long as we're punching up and not down.
@IvanM272
3 жыл бұрын
I agree that he has the right to be called the way he wants to. But i can't have empathy or respect for someone that deeply down on their soul know what's going on. Nobody better than Laurel knows he wouldnt be able to achieve the Olympics or be able to compete at this high level if its not on the womans division. How can someone have empathy and respect him? I will keep calling him because that's what he deserves right now. He is doing an horrible thing and crushing someone's dream because of his EGO. I have no problem in calling someone a she if that's how they prefer. But this guy? No, he doenst deserve it. He doesnt deserve any respect at all, because he is not caring about the feelings or caring about the athletes. He doesnt care about anyone and should get a lot of backlash. Unfornatly, hate comes with the backlash, so he will get that as well for being selfish. Again, not a problem for me to call someone the way they identify, but Laurel doesnt deserve it. He is hurting to many people while only caring about himself.
@Canadianswiss
3 жыл бұрын
@@IvanM272 You are such a very hateful person.
@wendilubinus6029
3 жыл бұрын
It’s not just about the current level of testosterone! It all years as testosterone also there is a testosterone storm in the womb!
@ahmarcamacho8404
3 жыл бұрын
Pete rubbish with currently 35mg/dl can deadlift more than 95% of the male population. They think testosterone following through your veins is what drives the physical prowess when it doesn't.
@TomWalsh1
3 жыл бұрын
Appreciate your analysis of the issue without denying her right to exist. The conversation around trans-athletes has been poisoned by bad faith arguments. The central question: How do we share the sports we love without destroying their competitive balance?
@kay_to_the_J
3 жыл бұрын
Nicely stated
@majmunovski
3 жыл бұрын
Compete in the gender division you were born in
@gracefool
3 жыл бұрын
Denying the insanity of sex changes isn't denying Laurel's right to exist any more than denying the gender identity of attack helicopter. Quite the opposite, if you actually care about someone you oppose their self-harm.
@Alnivol666
3 жыл бұрын
Participating in competitive sports is not a right, though. To me the answer is pretty simple : no. It can always compete with the men if competing is the point. But yeah...it would never qualify for the olympics in the men's category.
@PoeticMachineDreams
3 жыл бұрын
Perfectly said.
@daryltippens7932
3 жыл бұрын
The point he makes at 13:30 is the point I bring up all the time. I’m not even a top 1000 powerlifter, in any league, at my absolute best. If I hit just my 95% numbers at any comp as a female at the same weight I could be ranked top 5 in almost all leagues. I’m all for everyone being whomever/whatever they want to be, but we have to look at what could happen as a result of this. Now I assume that anyone transitioning is going through more than I could possibly understand and I would never advise against someone using their freedom in that manner. From the pure aspect of fairness and apparent genetic advantages, I ask everyone who doesn’t think there is an advantage to just openly look at these facts and decide if this doesn’t present potential problems for biological women!
@sixofsix
Жыл бұрын
Not sure if you'd be Top 5 in almost all leagues after all the hormone therapy. Im against transgenders in sports btw, but I simply don't think it's as simple as saying what ever weights you are capable of lifting now are the same weights you'd lift after your hormone levels were altered and tuned down to female levels.
@ZoeCuiM
3 жыл бұрын
Imagine transgender athletes set the world record so high, it literally has to be broken by another transgender athlete.
@anonymous-yg1hy
3 жыл бұрын
From one perspective, this appears to be a way for a relatively old and underperforming athlete to circumvent the doping rules in order to gain a competitive advantage and remain competitive past his/her prime.
@montgomeryharr30
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Zack I realise this is a very nuanced conversation and a very difficult one. You're clearly coming at it very respectfully and with good intent. One thing I'd suggest is when referring to non trans female weight lifters, it's probably best to use the phrase "cis-female". It may seem like a leap but when you refer to cis-female in this context as just female, you're being exclusive of women like Laurel from your definition of "female". I know that isn't the intent and I think this video is very carefully constructed. Just food for thought. Appreciate you Zack!
@albertnicolau4139
3 жыл бұрын
No, he's correct. He's refering to sex not gender, you can't be transsex. There are indivuals who are intersex which is separate from trans.
@McMeatBag
3 жыл бұрын
Bro, transition and make those Olympic dreams come true
@2mad2behere
3 жыл бұрын
You had the article up so long I forgot I’m watching a video so my dumbass tried to scroll down.
@artistphilb
3 жыл бұрын
Reading the article it's difficult to work out what "transitioned" means in Laurel's case? seems like it means just took female hormones and nothing else? articles about this seem to deliberately avoid being specific about this, if this rule change is what allows Laurel to compete, then it would appear that this is the case?
@AD-md5uk
3 жыл бұрын
Hubbard is a role model for any man wanting to win a gold in womens sports.
@michaelhusar3668
3 жыл бұрын
lol
@networth8754
3 жыл бұрын
Good conversation Zack. You speak from a vantage point of authority and expertise.
@richardv2141
3 жыл бұрын
Next you'll be able to use 10 pound plates and call them 100 pounds . Or ride a motorcycle on the marathon and call it a new type of shoe . What the hell it's upside down world where anything goes now .
@kennethg9277
3 жыл бұрын
Damn, that motorcycle identifying as a shoe is a good idea...
@stephenc2481
3 жыл бұрын
All women competitors should protest and boycott Olympics.
@MAB-nj8wf
3 жыл бұрын
I'm as liberal and progressive as they get, but make no mistake, this is pure BS. EVEN IF, someone goes through an entire transition (male to female), there will STILL be an advantage to that person's performance. Going through male puberty allowed your bone structure, ligament & tendon strength, to always be stronger. Going the other way (female to male), the newly transitioned male will never be able to realistically compete with other males. For the exact reasons stated. I think it might be time for Weightlifting to go away for a while. I love this sport, and have been involved since 1993, but the leadership, at best, can't control the drugs in the sport, and will violate all ethics, to make sure butts are in the seats at events. They have given NO guarantee that drugs are out of the hierarchy of the current world class lifters. Now, with this mess; and how they question and extensively test REAL females who might have some male features and slightly off testosterone... ...yeah, it's all messed up.
@chitownsuperfan
3 жыл бұрын
You seem to possess common sense, so you cannot, by definition, be "liberal and progressive". Kudos to you, but careful, you're gonna be labeled a "transphobe" by the woke sociopaths!
@MAB-nj8wf
3 жыл бұрын
@@chitownsuperfan No, I'm a bonafide liberal and progressive. And I've been called other things... ...socialist... ...communist... whatever. Either way, I'm all for the LBGTQIA, etc. community. And I will back everything they do and stand for, except this. And actually, that community may not have an issue with my point of view, but I don't want to guess.
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
yeah she's so much stronger biologically, that she won't even be able to slightly compete with Wenwen.
@MAB-nj8wf
3 жыл бұрын
I would literally stand up and cheer Hubbard, if "she" decided to complete with the men, in the 109+ class, group B, and came in dead last, while having the most exquisite make-up, lipstick, and nails on. I think that would send a larger and more positive message to the trans community, by far. At the very least, it would prove that the IWF actually understands science and biology, and the protocol for both.
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
@@MAB-nj8wf it would not send a better message to the trans community if class them as men.
@BrendanTietz
3 жыл бұрын
Great video and love the way you covered it! It is disrespectful to allow transitioned M to F to compete with other women in any sport. It disrespects the other women, it disrespects sport and it disrespects reality relating to the obviously proven advantages the M to F transitioned athletes have over non transitioned women. I am totally fine with what someone does with their own life but that doesn't mean we should allow them to take away the fairness of sports from passionate athletes. There really is only 1 debate here, is a singular persons needs to be identified as a woman worth more than the other women's needs to participate in fair sport. The way I see it, no. I think most see it this way however I suppose in time with how it all unfolds we will see what the world says.
@fazzolarijames
3 жыл бұрын
Brendan, great to see you take a stand king 💪
@BrendanTietz
3 жыл бұрын
@@fazzolarijames hahahaha always bro! you’d probably be pretty shocked how out spoken I am but on KZitem I tend to stay away from that. Not from fear of persecution but rather I just want my viewers to focus on lifting and not the drama. Not that there’s anything wrong with providing a spot light on it as it’s important but so many channels already do that so I try to keep mine around just information or training. However I have a feeling in my podcast I might start to add some sections about topics such as this because it’s extremely important we don’t just ignore this. Critical theory and the dissolution of reality is the most dangerous aspect of the modern world culturally.
@s.mahath.9644
3 жыл бұрын
I actually like this comment, and I agree. Playing devils advocate for a minute; are sports inherently fair at the elite level? Doping is everywhere, some athletes like Phelps and Lebron are genetically perfect for their sports, ball tampering exists in baseball and American football, fighters get away with HGH and rabbit punching, and soccer players are able to dive in the goal area for PKs, and by extension officiation misses calls.
@BrendanTietz
3 жыл бұрын
@@s.mahath.9644 definitely agree with that point and tbh lifting is probably the least fair sport. It’s as bare bones as it gets and essentially determined by genetics as where someone like Steph curry was amazing off of pure skill, dudes like the softest body in the nba LOL. But I suppose my counter point would be with all that we’d still want to maintain as much fair sport as possible and since we’re talking about the elite level it’s actually the most level playing field minus some things with doping.
@ThomasShatter
3 жыл бұрын
"t is disrespectful to allow transitioned M to F to compete with other women in any sport." "reality relating to the obviously proven advantages the M to F transitioned athletes have over non transitioned women" No it's not. For example we know for a fact trans women performance in running is basically the same as cis women. We also have transgender athletes that trasitioned over a decade ago and were constantly losing to cis women(Rachel McKinnon). So where is that advantage? She should completly dominate the sport if we go by your logic...
@purplemonkeydishwasher9360
3 жыл бұрын
Laurel actually grunts like a man. There is no way that believing you're a woman should allow you to compete with other women. They might as well just remove the gender basis of competition and just pit men and women together in all compeition. Even if Laurel destroys the competition (which I think they will) I would say the woman in second place is the actual winner.
@GGCandle
3 жыл бұрын
I noticed the same thing. What alternate reality have we warped into??? There's also a BMX transwoman who's qualified as an alternate competing who claimed if she wins gold, she plans to burn the American flag on the podium.
@offwiththefairies77
3 жыл бұрын
@@GGCandle "HE". Stop calling them she/her/woman etc. They are men.
@gentriage
3 жыл бұрын
Even Miss Nevada is transgender.
@drogerflav6350
3 жыл бұрын
In retrospect i think testosterone isn’t as indicative to strength as we thought she lost handedly placing last
@krc306
3 жыл бұрын
I want men to hold every single world record, including the female's records
@rjchi7317
3 жыл бұрын
Lol
@mmftw
3 жыл бұрын
Lmao
@chamomilecraft
3 жыл бұрын
Honestly the most fair way to fix this system is start looking at competitive classes for Trans athletes only. It would mean trans women aren’t just smoking us bio women at twice our age and trans men would have a more honest shot in competition. I mean even then it gets weird due to levels of transition but 🤷🏻♀️
@BrandonWilliams-wf6hg
3 жыл бұрын
Did she fully extend tho
@brandee8828
3 жыл бұрын
Did it *
@Rhynome
3 жыл бұрын
@@brandee8828 No miss, please don't do that. It's just spiteful for no particular reason.
@questionableethnicity2268
3 жыл бұрын
@@Rhynome no particular reason? There is a reason people are spiteful toward this person.
@chriswr_
3 жыл бұрын
@@questionableethnicity2268 you can spite her as a competitor, but that spite shouldn’t carry over to how someone chooses to live on their own skin. Be better.
@questionableethnicity2268
3 жыл бұрын
@@chriswr_ No dude, you be better.
@andrewvasey1070
3 жыл бұрын
The 800 meter runner you mentioned is intersex. What that means is that she is female, but has higher testosterone, however, because of female level androgen receptors, her body doesn’t use the testosterone as effectively as a man would.
@danielsundstrom8312
3 жыл бұрын
You tell em' Telly!
@nattylonglegz4506
3 жыл бұрын
Yes the situation is unfair BUT it is important that we be respectful and supportive of Laurel and moreover all people of all gender identities/expressions when discussing this topic
@aprilsummers6447
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Honestly reading through the comments is heartbreaking. Yes I think what Laurel Hubbard is doing is wrong, but it saddens me that people are using this story as an excuse to be blatantly transphobic.
@arnodc5
3 жыл бұрын
Damnit I thumbs up the video before watching it again
@martov4330
3 жыл бұрын
Don't worry Zack, your last rant was lovely. Also I signed up for your Patreon and I'm still waiting for my invite to the Olympics ?
@Crotes1990
3 жыл бұрын
It's a disgrace for not just the sport, but for the whole Olympic event.
@diabolus2856
3 жыл бұрын
Larry is a joke. I wonder how his dad feels about his son being the best in a woman’s weightlifting competition.
@suminshizzles6951
3 жыл бұрын
AFAIK they retain bonemass, bone structure and density as well as increased tendon mass. They are also allowed to retain up to ten times more testosterone than any normal women. This whole issue should be a non starter but because of world gone PC mad and woke people this madness is allowed to continue.
@jessejustsick
2 жыл бұрын
It'll be fair when a biological woman transitions to a man and takes home gold over biological males. I'll be over here holding my breath for that to happen. Send flowers to my funeral.
@TheWatchman1893
3 жыл бұрын
A body cultivated and grown swimming in testosterone gives an untold amount of advantages.
@jean_mollycutpurse_winchester
3 жыл бұрын
He's not a she. He's a he.
@maximillianherridge2209
3 жыл бұрын
Li Wenwen's total wr is 69% of Lasha's and Laurel's best total as a woman is 95% of hers as a man, I know these are not the best numbers to use, but still
@Johnny-Joseph
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah... maybe don't compare any competing athlete with lasha. Half the man's diet is anabolic steroids
@giorgig4828
3 жыл бұрын
@@Johnny-Joseph as if the same isn't true for any other lifter in the olympics
@Johnny-Joseph
3 жыл бұрын
@@giorgig4828 na the moment he decided he wasn't going to compete again he could literally juice without testing. Watch his inhuman weight jumps start as soon as he announced he was no longer competing
@giorgig4828
3 жыл бұрын
@@Johnny-Joseph uhh... okay? My point still stands
@Johnny-Joseph
3 жыл бұрын
@@giorgig4828 no it really doesn't...
@lshunley
3 жыл бұрын
First time I heard someone talk about the numbers. This has always been my thought. When people go from a low level Male competitor to an elite level female competitor in a short period of time. Strength sports shows a clear picture that these women have an advantage. The numbers speak for it self. It's a lot easier to see than a skilled sport.
@derrick_v
3 жыл бұрын
All females in the same weight class shouldn't even go out on the platform. Make a statement that is is wrong.
@deliciousdishes4531
3 жыл бұрын
why would Wenwen throw away a gold medal for literally 0 reason lmao.
@powerlifting1012
3 жыл бұрын
They are also sponsored by companies and that's a terrible look they wouldn't let it happen
@makaan699
3 жыл бұрын
@@powerlifting1012 well then that's sad that athletes' integrity is limited by the fact they are just walking ads.
@WHAT_1400
3 жыл бұрын
@@makaan699 they need to eat
@seanseanston
3 жыл бұрын
@@deliciousdishes4531 Exactly; I see that in 2019 Li Wenwen snatched 147kg, which is 1kg more than what Hubbard jerked in 2017. Meanwhile Li Wenwen has jerked 186. Somehow I don't think Laurel Hubbard is in danger of winning the gold this time.
@peteurpola8405
3 жыл бұрын
The "funniest" part is his/her age which is 43 years. That should probably tell you something about the advantage he has over the female competitors if you can compete at the olympic level at 43 years old.
@dilbin97
3 жыл бұрын
I'm a pretty staunch trans rights supporter and I think your point here is good and you don't say anything "cancellable," despite how the commenters from both sides might extrapolate your point. Weightlifting is its own domain with it's own problems with doping, scoring, hormone testing etc. and at the elite level its reasonable to place restrictions on who can compete where purely for the sake of keeping the competition exciting, and the problem of categorizing genetic/biological outliers will always exist. That is not to say (as you explicitly don't say here) that trans people shouldn't be allowed to participate in any sports, or given the respect and rights they deserve in everyday life. Sports should consider modifying guidelines to fit the advancing social and scientific understanding of gender to accommodate people that don't fit the common mold (like Caster Semenya), while still keeping competition interesting and letting genetic outliers shine at the elite level, but obviously this isn't an easy task and there will always be a back and forth discussion and controversy surrounding certain athletes. Luckily there isn't a hoard of people rushing to change their entire biology, lifestyle, and identity, while maintaining an elite level of training in order to potentially receive an "easy" ticket to athletic fame, as most comment sections seem to think, and I doubt there will ever be.
@Second247
3 жыл бұрын
Fully agreed. One major issue with this trans-issue is that it just highlights ugly truth of sports: Nobody is not born equal, not even within gender categories (it's funny that people see equality within women to be such an issue). While in actuality there never has been fairplay or equal change. + There's drugs and corruption enabling much more to certain nationalities. Similar to immigrants who are easy to hate because they standout. People in their simplicity just take trans athletes as be-all-end-all issue. Not saying that there would not be an issue with transathletes, but once you start to stir things up all sorts of difficult questions starts to rise up.
@dilbin97
3 жыл бұрын
@Bidenz Diaper Oh please, the girl who did a press run through Fox news, Soule, placed 6th, and her co-plaintiff, Smith, placed third behind only one of the two trans athletes and still qualified for State. There are cis women faster than them both at the national and state level. As I said athletic agencies can do a better job of defining the lines between men's and women's divisions, and maybe this could/should impact the ability for specific trans athletes in Connecticut to compete in the division they want to, in the same way that a hormone condition could for any athlete (see Castor Sinema). But this media driven frenzy whipped up over two high school athletes at the county level is obvious fodder for a culture war I'm not interested in participating in.
@edmund3504
3 жыл бұрын
You said it yourself. No excuses, just improve.
@Al.j.Vasquez
3 жыл бұрын
Put Shi Zhiyon on 280 nanograms for a year, for the sake of it, Shi will still snatch double bodyweight.
@samuelmassicotte9645
3 жыл бұрын
He already snatches double bodyweight I think..
@leeharveyoswald5277
3 жыл бұрын
*triple
@samuelmassicotte9645
3 жыл бұрын
@@leeharveyoswald5277 He’s 73kg. He snatched 170kg. 73 x 2= 146kg. 73 x 3= 219kg No he does bot snatch triple bodyweight
@leeharveyoswald5277
3 жыл бұрын
@@samuelmassicotte9645 I was saying IF he was on 280 nanograms of testosterone, he'd be snatching triple bw. Currently it's more like 2.4x
@Al.j.Vasquez
3 жыл бұрын
@@leeharveyoswald5277 but 280 namograms would be low for a healthy elite male athlete, isn't it? That's why i said double bodyweight, because his performance might decrease a bit, but he would still be waaaay above any woman ever. The best Chinese 76kg female Zhang Wangli did a 115kg snatch to win the Asian Championships, it would be easier for Shi to maintain weight and compete at the 76 cat than dropping all the way down to 64kg. This is all unnecessary speculation, bit I'm oretty sure that even with his testosterone reduced to 280, he Shi would still do 2x body weight.
@steffanofumo
3 жыл бұрын
It needs to be considered that this person started with a baseline of being much stronger and with superior bone density than the average male, let alone a female competitor, and not to mention that weightlifting is specifically used to mitigate muscle and bone density loss in transgender individuals in the first place, weightlifting is literally the perfect sport for a transgender individual to keep every single advantage has long has possible after transitioning.
@japphan
3 жыл бұрын
Being one of those extremely woke people, I approve of this message. Giving anyone a way to compete on uneven terms is to not take them seriously as athletes. Telling someone "sure, you can have an unfair advantage" is just patronizing. Now, there is much to be done on all levels of sports to give trans people a forum to compete on fair terms. Influential voices, such as yours, Zack, can be a great help in this.
@tirentu
3 жыл бұрын
its a really tough topic because all the transphobes are just chomping at the bit to use it as an excuse to be shitheads, and yet it is a real issue especially in a sport like weightlifting. obviously trans people should and must be allowed to compete, but it is definitely and obviously the case that having like 4x peak testosterone levels is going to make you able to lift heavier weights than your cisgendered competition. i wish trans people werent a culture war issue so there could be a real conversation on the subject without it being weaponized by conservative politicians to pass bills meant to harass trans kids at school, or without instantly being canceled by a bunch of tumblr morons for not falling in line with their talking points.
@hclaessen
3 жыл бұрын
Feeling sorry for the New Zealand girl who lost her Olympic place to the transgender lifter.
@kraven4444
3 жыл бұрын
Why would the guidelines allow for 4 times the MAX normal female testosterone levels??? super sketch. Do they also allow 4x the max male test. levels??
@stradivariousedge
3 жыл бұрын
Very informative, respectful, and professional background But I would also like to hear the opinion of a professional olympic weightlifting woman born athelete. I think their opinion is the most important in this conversation since it can impact them directly.
@stradivariousedge
3 жыл бұрын
@@ems7623 I'm actually an MD and weightlifter myself, so I am knowledgeable about the topic. I said "I would *also*". Because I hear many people (often straight males) saying think about how it may take a space (medal or podium space) for a woman born athlete. I think it's important to include, scientists, medical doctors, physiologists, coaches, and athletes -trans and woman born- in the conversation.
@garethevans3600
3 жыл бұрын
I'm not from your sport but have spent my life doing a range of other sports and with sisters who have completed at very high levels. What you see in your sport is just being played out in other sports because sport is sport. To do well you have to have certain abilities and almost invariably this favours men. Any athlete who promotes men in women's sport is blind, stupid or hates women. Any non-athlete who promotes men in women's sport is ignorant or an activist with money or fame as an agenda.
@hainleysimpson1507
3 жыл бұрын
That's because most sports put emphasis on things men are good at since most sports were made by men and are played by men.
@garethevans3600
3 жыл бұрын
@@hainleysimpson1507 I am all ears. What sport do you suggest for women where they outcompete men? Sport is something that involves competing in a physical sense otherwise we call it something else. On almost all physical planes men are naturally advantaged (except maybe ultra marathon running) - that is biology. It may be unfair but it is. This is an argument that has no teeth unless you care to raise something useful in terms of biology or a useful redefinition of sport.
@Spades340
2 жыл бұрын
@@hainleysimpson1507 So what things are women good at, then?
@TeamRelsonGracieFL
3 жыл бұрын
For those specific people that are okay with PEDs in the sport, would they have a leg to stand on arguing against trans women competing against cis women? Because it seems too similar to distinguish.
@metoonunyabidness1391
3 жыл бұрын
The fact that you had to open this video by pleading not to be “canceled” is very telling...
@coachcoopfitness
3 жыл бұрын
The tolerant left
@Banana_Split_Cream_Buns
3 жыл бұрын
Precisely!
@Banana_Split_Cream_Buns
3 жыл бұрын
@@coachcoopfitness as a leftie, how authoritarian the left have become embarrasses me. We used to be the ones supporting free speech. Now it's basically just people like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Jimmy Dore, Kyle Kulinski and Krystal Ball.
@ashleygarvin7177
3 жыл бұрын
My nmol/dl is sub 10 naturally (7nmol/l) and I managed a 180kg bench press at 95kgs. Admittedly I never really focused on weight lifting so I don't have comparable numbers to provide. But legitimately I could enter a meet with full beard, huge delts and everything and destroy the women without even having to block my test levels. I am sure with a few years of weight lifting I could achieve similar. For me the sub 10nmol/l requirement is comical
@missruth26
3 жыл бұрын
I can’t listen…. Every time you call her “her” No! HE. Is. A. HE!
@jackdemoguitar
3 жыл бұрын
Why are transgender people not happy with just participating in the sport? Why do they need to compete in the Olympics? I have zero problem them doing a meet in their own category
@noahj5250
3 жыл бұрын
Pretty scary we are now afraid of being cancelled for saying someone who has been a man for most of their life shouldn’t be allowed to compete against women, in weightlifting of all sports.
@teatowel11
3 жыл бұрын
Pretty scary that people who believe Laurel is a man are now afraid not to call Laurel a women. You can have a different opinion on the ideology of gender, it doesn't mean you hate them.
@tetsuan25
3 жыл бұрын
So this bloke couldn't beat other men and now beats women by pretending he is one. He's a man all the women should boycott.
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