Just before I continue watching, thank you for sharing how the pickup tube works. I'd never really given them much thought before but it all makes perfect sense. Another vid I'm surprised hasn't taken off the way some do.
@richardhz-oi8px
6 жыл бұрын
Have you thought about trying what some television collectors do with picture tubes with open filaments, charging a cap and having it across the filament and tapping the neck of the tube gently, if it touches momentarily it can weld the filament back together. It isn't a guaranteed fix, but it has the possibility to work
@mrnmrn1
4 жыл бұрын
I've just read again how color Saticon tubes work. It's CRAZY! They have *diagonal* color filters of transparent-yellow and transparent-cyan. The yellow blocks blue light (the result is G+R), the cyan blocks red light (the result is G+B). The filter stripes are diagonal to give 90° phase shift of the two signals, but as a side effect it also causes a shift in the order of color components of each scanline, only every fourth scanline has the same order of color components, this has to be compensated... During scanning, on the target you get the G+R and G+B signals amplitude modulated on top of the Y signal, the carrier frequency is described by the physical spacing of the stripes (usually 3.9MHz, Hi-Band Saticons are around 6MHz). After amplification of this mish-mash-modulated signal, it is being fed simultaneously through a 0.5MHz and a 3MHz LPF, and a 3.9MHz BPF. By adding, substracting, inverting, 90° phase shifting and 1H delaying of these three signals in a specific way, finally a standard PAL/NTSC signal is being produced. You can read more here in this service manual of a Panasonic camera: freeservicemanuals.info/en/servicemanuals/viewmanual/Panasonic/WVP35E/WVP35N/WVP55E/WVP55N/ Sony Trinicon tubes are completely different. Trinicon is the only single-pickup-tube system which uses actual RGB filters, it has vertical stripes of R, G and B filters. So unlike color Saticon, which produces color difference signals, Trinicon produces RGB signals. Much more precise color rendition. Trinicons are beam index tubes, the index electrode tells the color decoder which color filter is being currently scanned. A much more elegant way in my opinion.
@12voltvids
4 жыл бұрын
This is why the trinicon tubes looked so much better. A saticon mixed field (smf) trinicon delivered color that looked almost as good as a 3 tube camera.
@mrnmrn1
4 жыл бұрын
@@12voltvids Yes, the difference is astounding even through a VHS capture (recorded with the same Hitachi VT6500 VCR) Trinicon: kzitem.info/news/bejne/r7CKrXmpqKp9YHo Hi-Band Saticon: kzitem.info/news/bejne/ln5nqpyqb3RqrZg
@12voltvids
4 жыл бұрын
All single tube color cameras did this, not just the saticon which was used in hitachi cameras. Panasonic had their newvicon and even the old toshiba vidcon worked the same way. Only sony did it differently with the embedded electrode in the target which provided the color timing signal, and of course the RGB filter. This is why sony cameras always had superior color. Trinicon was available as vidcon and saticon camera. I still have 3 working trinicon cameras but the last time I used them 2 didn't look that good.
@mrnmrn1
4 жыл бұрын
@@12voltvids I think I said basically the same in my first comment: "Trinicon is the only single-pickup-tube system which uses actual RGB filters". But Panasonic used Saticon as well, not just Newvicon. I have two Panasonic WVP-55 and a WVP-200, both models use single Saticon tube, the WVP-200 has Hi-Band Saticon. Although I didn't know that Saticon-based Trinicons exist, I thought all Trinicons were Vidicon based.
@12voltvids
4 жыл бұрын
@@mrnmrn1 Nope, the HVC2800 consumer camera was a SMF (Saticon Moxed Field) as well as all the broadcast versions, DXC1800, BVP1/BVV1 betacam. That was t he "disposable" betacam that sony sold zillions of to the broadcast indstry. The 3 tube version was the BVP 3 / BVV1. The PVP1 was essentially the same camera as the DXC1800, but with the mount for the BVV1 dock recorder.
@peteb2
6 жыл бұрын
In the 80s i was swapping out hundreds of Saticon camera tubes in basic security CCTV cameras that were installed all across London. I went through trays and trays of the things as spares. Sometimes the cameras though were a super-sensitive model so that meant a Newvicon.... and you had to set the target voltage using a VTVM with a really high impedance on the input so as not to load the camera target circuit... More TRIVIA... Saticons appeared in Lost in Space as humanoid aliens without faces and sparkly bowler hats!
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
The Newvicon was a Panasonic development, Saticon Hitachi. Saticon had that wire to the front of the face plate, and they were also a high sensitivity. Vidicon was the most popular, and correct target voltage needed to be set with vtvm as the target was typically fed through about a 20 meg ohm resistor or something high like that.
@grassulo
6 жыл бұрын
I love tube cameras, I have a few of the consumer grade ones and they just have this charm about the image, like 1970's TV quality. I have started to repair my 1977 Aiwa front loader cassette deck like your Technics and it is spectacular, the auto loading is disconnected but I got the capstan and reel belts and cleaned the head. HOLY COW this thing can make an Iron Oxide tape sound like a chrome tape, and chrome tape sounds almost as good as CD if you record it a bit hot, they knew EXACTLY what they were doing!
@zx8401ztv
6 жыл бұрын
So the final one has a similar idea to oscilliscope operation, they really did explore every avenue for different ideas. I suppose there must have been a problem using scan coils in such a small tube, or perhaps it was just space limitation. Clever buggers though :-D.
@thepatsny
6 жыл бұрын
Reminds me of the Ring doorbell system that's popular today
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
thepatsny This was cool when it was new but the bug problem was it still used a camera tube and they are fragile. Mounted on the back of the door it got banged around a fair bit.
@Ihavetruth22
3 жыл бұрын
Those were expensive camera$ back in the day.
@12voltvids
3 жыл бұрын
Yes everything was back then.
@old64goat
6 жыл бұрын
Too bad the tube filament is open, I guess you can make a display board and mount them on it and hang it on your wall, it would be neat to have all the different little camera tubes on display from the oldest to the newest tubes.
@markanderson350
6 жыл бұрын
I never knew how a camera tube worked, It is clear Sony was the leader in making these small.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
I should connect up an old B/W camera to a high rez security monitor and show how good they were. No pixels to limit resolution, a good B/W tube camera onto a good security monitor can display 1000 lines resolution easily. Yada yada yada I know there are only 525 scanning lines, how can you have 1000? That is horizontal lines of definition. Each scanning line can have 1000 or more points. It is all limited by the bandwidth of the amplifiers. Color tubes were limited by the dot pitch, or stripe pitch of the tube. Black and white tubes have no such limitation. Neither do monochrome cameras. I have a brand new never used black and white very high resolution security monitor. That would do the job.
@markanderson350
6 жыл бұрын
@@12voltvids would be interesting. We all go digital oy to lose all that detail to pixilation when we blow things up. Yes we are throwing away detail for digital.
@KylesDigitalLab
4 жыл бұрын
@@12voltvids What about 3 tube cameras?
@12voltvids
4 жыл бұрын
@@KylesDigitalLab I don't have a 3 tube anymore. I leased a dxc me 3 tube camera for a year and then the 3ccd came out.
@discatte
2 жыл бұрын
Started searching for some saticon info and this video was up top. Great stuff :3
@grassulo
6 жыл бұрын
It's crazy that you can get a wifi security camera with HD resolution and IR capability for peanuts, technology was really interesting back when those cameras were made, but then China came into it's own just like Japan did, but for much cheaper.
@rawr51919
6 жыл бұрын
First, I guess. Tiny things make for challenging repairs.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
Never fun to work on things this small.
@grassulo
6 жыл бұрын
I never liked Sony stuff I get their vintage gear now and it's junk and not worth fixing, but something like a Pioneer or Technics or Mitsubishi or Aiwa or Sharp hell yes! Sony was always like it's awesome at first but good luck fixing it, and terrible service manuals always! And no replacement parts! I got a BRAND NEW head for my Aiwa cassette deck from 1977 and it was ten dollars in the original paper wrapping, Sony doesn't have anything like that because they didn't think that way...
@DAVIDGREGORYKERR
6 жыл бұрын
About the same size of of the picture tube in the viewfinder of my MV750I DV8 CANON CAMCORDER
@williamsquires3070
6 жыл бұрын
If it operates much like a CRT tube, but with a current-sense resistor to pick off the video signal, how do they get rid of the noise in the video signal at the horizontal oscillator frequency? Do they phase-shift the horizontal oscillator signal 180, then feed it - amplitude shifted - into the video amp chain, sort of like noise-canceling headphones? Or do they use a boost-mode SMPS (instead of a flyback transformer+horiz. output transistor) with lots of filtering for ripple, and the usual feedback from the secondary winding back into the PWM controller chip?
@KylesDigitalLab
3 жыл бұрын
How does the tube camera handle the inverted image from the lens? Does it scan from the bottom to top? Also this is a B/W saticon right?
@12voltvids
3 жыл бұрын
Well all tubes are monochrome. How they make color is put a color stripe filter on the face of the tube. (For single tube cameras) Sony did it different than others. Sony used an RGB stripe filter and an index grid to synchronize the color multiex circuit. Other color tubes used cyan and green and clear filters. Use level differences to figure out the color. Yes it scans bottom to top.
@KylesDigitalLab
3 жыл бұрын
@@12voltvids I know how single tube cameras process color (and the Trinicon) My question is, is there a color stripe filter on the tube or is just B/W? And if there is a stripe filter is it the RGB one used in the Trinicon? That's what I meant sorry.
@12voltvids
3 жыл бұрын
@@KylesDigitalLab This one is black and white.
@xeroinfinity
6 жыл бұрын
I use a camera in my apartment door peephole today, i see all kinds of crap! Nice show n tell video !
@matthewbestdfghy
6 жыл бұрын
I hate crawling up in my attic. I did it today wireing up and installing up electrical boxes for innercting smoke alarms.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
Tell me about it. They expect me to do this at work, and crawl in crawl spaces. I am at the point now where is someone wants that fiber run under the house, or through the attic I hand them the box and say you run the fiber, I will hook it up, because I am running it around the outside. Thanks to asbestos in insulation unless I have a full hazmat suit on with OSHA respirator I am not going up there.
@matthewbestdfghy
6 жыл бұрын
@@12voltvids I am always afraid I will fall through the drywall. Not because I am unable to fix it myself but I work 55 hours a week mandatory but I no time to deal with it unless I am on at a stay at home vacation.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
55 hours a week! Wow, that is too many hours a week to work. We work 37.5 at my job, and then anything above that is x 1.5 or if we work a stat x3 pay scale which is nice but the government takes half of it. When the workload gets really crazy they can mandate mandatory OT, which happens usually after a big storm and there are plenty of outages. In January I think I will opt in for compressed work. 3 10.5 hour days followed by a 7.5 and then 3 days off every week. The guys that are already on that shift say they love it.
@rawr51919
6 жыл бұрын
That pretty much means more YT time (and more pretty much everything else time too). Might see more than one vid a day every once in a while due to the extra time.
@grassulo
6 жыл бұрын
If you think you have a rat in your attic, get a no kill trap and bait it with cheese, I've had many pet rats and they went crazy for it and it's sure fire for catching a wild rat it's not a joke, and don't kill them, just take them to the rich a-hole neighbors house and release them there, they will find a way in XD. I actually had two wild rats as pets and they were jumpy at first but became friendly, their super smart.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
Dont have one now. Trap took care of it.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
Rich A-hole neighbor? That would be the entire neighborhood. Hard to find a house anywhere around here that isn't worth well over a million. I have more teslas in my neighborhood.
@grassulo
6 жыл бұрын
@@12voltvids Jesus that's like space balls in real life! Oh my God! But where I live no one's house is that expensive and probably won't ever be.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
@@grassulo Vancouver and surrounding area is for millionaires. Housing is out of reach for many. For those of us that bought years ago we are house rich. As the song goes "if I had a million dollars I'd be rich...." not here you wouldn't. You would be able to buy yourself a 800 sq foot starter house if you were lucky.
@widecast
6 жыл бұрын
It would help if the object under discussion was actually in the shot at the time.
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
It was.
@shaun9107
6 жыл бұрын
The mistery package could of been a repair , so now they get it back they are likely to be paying more than its worth WORKING !!!
@12voltvids
6 жыл бұрын
shaun I had a stereo sent to me that had 103 in taxes and a digital 8 camera sent that had about 50 in taxes owed. One was held and the owner paid before I picked it up. The other was left at the door and I called to fine out the cost and added it to the bill. I am very clear to anyone shipping me items to not use DHL, fed ex or ups as they charge between 17 and 37.50 regardless if there is tax owed. Usually they open the package. Someone looks at it. Looked it up on Ebay or Amazon. Finds the highest price and uses that for tax calculation. Since I was not expecting a repair this was likely a sample of something or a donation of something. Either way I won't know. I have been burned before. I was sent a package worth about 10 bucks and 3 weeks after it was left at the door by fed ex I got a surprise in the mail. A bill for 39.00. 37.50 of that in paperwork charged. The kicker is I never got the item as someone saw it at the door and took it. I believe it was a power bank as I was expecting one that never arrived. I refused the charges and filed an appeal with fed ex but they say "the driver delivered it as per our policy as no signature required" I refused to pay and they sent it to collections. So yes I am pissed as I have no recourse. Driver said it was delivered.
@shaun9107
6 жыл бұрын
I am no market expert or mathematical wizard but even I need to know the overall cost of something due to those Business sharks sneaking around . I bet they make more one this one as they hold auctions of unclaimed goods .
@grassulo
6 жыл бұрын
I caught a big rat at my mom's apartment outdoors and he was like my bad neighbor delete pet in my apartment complex, took the rat about a week to become really friendly with me and another week to realize what I want to do! a little spy and assassin, better than a dog! Even chewing the gas pipe from a stove and into a refrigerator and eating quite a lot of their food You have no idea how you can delete an asshole neighbor with a good pet rat! XDXD
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