Full IC analysis -- YES PLEASE!!! :-) I'm soaking this up. It's still black magic, but at least it's understandable at a high level, thanks to your explanation.
@AndrewZonenberg
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I'd love to see it too. I'm quite familiar with digital CMOS reverse engineering but RFIC layout is black magic to me.
@PeterHuson
3 жыл бұрын
Yes!
@jordantekelenburg
3 жыл бұрын
Yes
@RogerDiotte
3 жыл бұрын
LOL Black Magic...Laying out the paper towels around my chair to expunge all the drool and drips in the exciting episode also!
@awesamhead
3 жыл бұрын
Yesssss please..
@PedroDaGr8
3 жыл бұрын
I can't think of anyone more qualified to do this analysis!
@Ozzy3333333
3 жыл бұрын
I can, engineers from my work, we are currently working on 106gbps pam4 with a single lane (diff pair), and 8 in parallel for 800gbps bandwidth.
@Thefreakyfreek
2 жыл бұрын
I cant tink of anyone more unqualified than me I just got my rtl sdr and I'm in to bipolar antennas and just learned that bigger does not mean better in antena
@cvspvr
Жыл бұрын
@@Ozzy3333333 how much 8k vr porn could you stream with 106gbps?
@quieroverduras
3 жыл бұрын
I would like to see a full IC analysis. Thanks for the video, Shahriar.
@proudsnowtiger
3 жыл бұрын
Loved that little 100 GHz phased array you popped out half way through. Any chance of more on the design process for that?
@MegaKFO
3 жыл бұрын
I would like to see the IC analysis.
@gglovato
3 жыл бұрын
Me too, I'd love to see this as well
@fluffy_tail4365
3 жыл бұрын
seconding this!
@Zeigren
3 жыл бұрын
Thirding!
@artrock8175
3 жыл бұрын
Fourthing!
@flantc
3 жыл бұрын
Yes please!
@hpux735
3 жыл бұрын
As always more is better!! An IC analysis would, of course, be appreciated!
@graybeardmicrowave3074
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! They may be getting the circular polarization from the notches on the suspended patch element; not just to electrical lengthen it. Though it does look too symmetrical. On rectangular patches you can generate LHCP or RHCP by trimming two corners (relative to the single feed point) to generate a quadrature resonance along the orthogonal edges. Though the polarization isolation and BW is poor compared to a true quadrature feed. On the feed board, it looks like every other column has a single slot with a large chip, and the orthogonal slots with a smaller chip. Maybe TX with linear polarization on the bottom patch, and RX with simultaneous LHCP and RHCP on the top patch, with dual LNA and quadrature splitter. That gives them the massive downlink bandwidth. What’s the element pitch? Looks much too tight for X-band, so maybe TX and RX elements interdispursed. All just a guess on my part, but fascinating array.
@paulround8501
3 жыл бұрын
The number of Starlink dish disassembles I have seen and thought, Signal Path needs to do one of these, and here it is, I am not disappointed at all. Oh and yes, full IC analysis is absolutely required for this.
@noipv4
2 жыл бұрын
I watched the entire video on a Starlink connection 📡Thanks a lot for the details, especially the X-ray image analysis.
@_hammyhamster_
5 ай бұрын
The best block diagram description of a circuit I have ever heard. Thank You.
@boshacka
3 жыл бұрын
Dude you should do a lot of videos on this thing! Besides the IC stuff, I would love to see some more on depth analysis the phase array, maybe you could even replicate it in a 3d array sim and demonstrate the focusing, multi beam, sidelobes, cool stuff! And I honestly think this could get a ton of views, gotta milk that spacex hype
@UNSCPILOT
3 жыл бұрын
The fact that these receivers only cost 500$ with this level of engineering is seriously impressive, especially for a first generation of the Starlink system, I look forward to the later iterations
@Thesignalpath
3 жыл бұрын
It is being sold for less than 1/5th of its cost.
@NomenNescio99
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome I've been waiting for this!
@RiyadhElalami
3 жыл бұрын
Please, FULL IC ANALYSIS. That would be amazing. I love you Shahriar.
@Thesignalpath
3 жыл бұрын
I love you too! :)
@rowanjones3476
3 жыл бұрын
I’d been hoping this antenna would find it’s way to your bench since the first video. Thanks for offering your insight - fascinating as always. And yes, I’d love to see a deeper analysis of the RFIC.
@BradleyFarnsworth
3 жыл бұрын
Nice analysis Shahriar! I appreciated to see the Tesseract cameo as well.
@Thesignalpath
3 жыл бұрын
Of course! ;)
@jeffstull2534
3 жыл бұрын
I know zilch about any of this mumbojumbo but was still mesmerized and watched it. Thanks for the next video on this technology.
@hecker..8903
2 жыл бұрын
YES for for full IC analysis! and YES for this type of mailbag stuff analysis..! An excellent video! Thanks!
@Nik930714
3 жыл бұрын
When i watched the original video from Ken, my first tough was that he should send it to you. I'm really glad that this he did. I've not watched your video yet, but i'm sure its going to be interesting.
@TNTsundar
2 жыл бұрын
Love your channel. Keep these kind of videos coming. Thanks.
@Allen.Morrison
Жыл бұрын
Excellent analysis and explainations. Really enjoyed getting to see how StarLink implemented their phased arrays and how to think through their possible design decisions. My two favorite parts were the antenna D.O.F. analysis, which gave me good ideas about how to design future antennas, and then the 100 GHz array, which I may even use as a comparision in my Master's defense.
@mc_cpu
3 жыл бұрын
Came from the recent eevblog video. How have I missed this channel? Better late than never!
@decibel_tastic2869
3 жыл бұрын
RHCP/LHCP: might I suggest the element is excited by the linear 14GHz Tx slot dipole, ditto 11/12GHz Rx which when passed via the PCB dielectric to the first circular suspended patch, allows that to reradiate CP, translating Linear to CP and the upper crescent shaped patch acts as a director in the cavity. Net effect is CP element with some directive gain, adequate CP XPI (Cross-polar isolation), and fractional bandwidth performance on the allocated frequencies. CP is absolutely required with LEO satellites, using linear would mean skewing continually , nightmare.
@milolouis
3 жыл бұрын
Yesssss!!!! Noone could do a better KZitem analysis than Mr Path.
@vanniealdamar9386
Жыл бұрын
I'm stay tunned hopping for starlink v2 dish teardown and analysis
@sorooshrasty9438
3 жыл бұрын
Dear Dr. Shahramian, it would be great if you do an IC analysis as well.
@ianjuby
2 жыл бұрын
Dude - that was fascinating and beyond excellent. I get my starlink this week hopefully, so I'm super stoked.
@IanJohnstonblog
3 жыл бұрын
Please please please do a detailed IC analysis. This was so educational! Thank you!!
@MoraFermi
3 жыл бұрын
That milky, semitransparent foil under the copper patch antennas was likely FEP: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinated_ethylene_propylene
@charleskeller4288
3 жыл бұрын
and FEP should be cheaper than "Teflon" since you mentioned the cost of using Teflon.
@MarkFunderburk
3 жыл бұрын
I've been waiting for this one.
@gregorymccoy6797
3 жыл бұрын
I will be digesting this for some time. A lot more information than I was expecting.
@k7iq
3 жыл бұрын
Great video ! It would be neat to have even a partial IC analysis. Could you please if you have a chance, take some more closeups of the IC side of the board ? Was wondering more about their construction of those areas too. Love this one !
@kevy1yt
3 жыл бұрын
I need some of that magic red fixing tape!
@soheilsalmanishabafrouz6493
3 жыл бұрын
As always fantastic , I would love to see the IC analysis.
@scienteer3562
3 жыл бұрын
My guess is that each of the 2 H slots per element are to dual band the antenna for TX and Rx to cover the widely spaced frequencies. While the slots look about the same size and shape, one is clearly closer to the edge of the patch. Perhaps they phase alternate elements with a 90° shift so the superposition of 2 elements creates approximate CP. Really impressive structure. This is not a case of just sending it to the local PCB fab. I bet they have developed a custom in house fab process for this, in parallel to designing the antenna.
@SeanBZA
3 жыл бұрын
They have an existing PCB fab, there for doing all the SpaceX electronics and Tesla boards, so likely this is all in house designed and built. Impressive amount of design work though, and definitely not built down to a price point either, but to meeting the design spec correctly.
@MarkRose1337
3 жыл бұрын
Your comment about the 90° shift and superposition of 2 elements to make circular polarization makes sense to me. The two lobes not only serve as polarized directors, but should also effectively lengthen the directors to better match the half wavelength of the frequency band (also taking into account the velocity factor of the copper) when transmitting in the opposite polarization. Very clever!
@gglovato
3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see an "RF mailbag" where you dissect interesting RF stuff sent to you
@hillseg
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Very interesting topic, please do more!
@GregUzelac
3 жыл бұрын
Wow!!! One of the most interesting tear downs EVAH!!
@funtechu
3 жыл бұрын
Of course there is interest ;)
@DalePGatorcq
Жыл бұрын
wondering about the power requirements. What is the power regulation from power adapter to the dish? Plug into wall, converter to DC. What is the DC voltage to the Antenna?
@aamiddel8646
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. A long way away from slotted waveguide phase array antennas. BTW Have you noticed that the small IC's line up differently with the 'patch' antenna? Why?
@moremartin320
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing! You did a great job explaining about all the different chips and components on the board. Much appreciated! Now I don't have to open my dish. lol.
@Maltanx
3 жыл бұрын
I watched and enjoyed the video but I didn't understand anything at all about the whole rf working of the antenna. An idea for a series of videos: how about an "RF for noobs" series where you talk about RF design and workings without being too much technical? You do have the capabilities to explain RF design to everyone. I know your videos are targeted to a specific group of people, but it would be nice to start understating your in depth explanation for us who believe you RF guys are wizards.
@justrandom7214
3 жыл бұрын
He does have some more basics videos. Have a look at his rf component videos for example. Another channel which does quiet a bit of basics is w2aew for example.
@jayzinho10
3 жыл бұрын
Sir Shahriar, you are PhD supervisor goals.🥺🤩
@Lunar787
3 жыл бұрын
Full IC analysis please!
@CraigBurden1
3 жыл бұрын
Very very interesting, thank you for sharing your knowledge of the dark arts! I would have loved a closer view of the populated side of the board
@supernumex
3 жыл бұрын
awesome video! would be interesting to go into detail on some of the chips and have a quick look at the datasheets.
@faridonn4005
3 жыл бұрын
IC analysis please! Thanks loads!
@AlfredoMazzinghi
3 жыл бұрын
Would love to see IC analysis as well! Great video, I don't know much about antenna design but was very very interesting!
@Darieee
3 жыл бұрын
fantastic video .. some IC analysis would indeed be a super cool addition
@balrampillai5314
3 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to an IC Analysis video!
@waterbearinvesting5383
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Signal Path, was wondering if you have any idea who might've made those FEMs (MACOM perhaps)? Also, you mentioned the power within the board probably supports Si based products like SiGe and BiCMOS, but we all know that III-V compounds operates more efficiently under KU & KA bands, do you think the FEMs are made of GaAs or GaN perhaps? Thanks in advance.
@Edward-tz7xz
2 жыл бұрын
Magnificent explanation. Thank you.
@Superkuh2
2 жыл бұрын
The front side of the isolating meta-surface of periodic squares around the circular patches is different from the back side @ 29:30 . The front is very regular. The back shows lots of variations in shape.
@kingraine1
3 жыл бұрын
This is amazing, Dr Shahryar
@RideGasGas
3 жыл бұрын
In the Ku band linear polarization is typically used for satellite communications to GSO satellites, but interestingly SpaceX's FCC filings do use circular polarization for the Ku band user terminal links.
@haniehahmadi2628
Жыл бұрын
Dear Shahriar, Thanks for your video. Is this phased array antenna used in the space station?
@Nick-jz3ic
3 жыл бұрын
Awesome video. Please go into more detail
@niyaziugur
3 жыл бұрын
we want full chip analysis
@jhwblender
Жыл бұрын
29:18 You may be seeing EVA here, or some other lamination bonder. EVA is quite common in the solar industry as a bonder between layers.
@grahamjones5885
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent analysis! Thanks.
@phiber9
3 жыл бұрын
amazing analysis. thank you so much!
@GregCormier
3 жыл бұрын
For the price, do you think they are selling this unit at-cost, or at a loss?
@Thesignalpath
3 жыл бұрын
At tremendous loss.
@mattg2k4
3 жыл бұрын
Business Insider estimates the cost to SpaceX at $2400: www.businessinsider.com/spacex-starlink-satellite-dish-user-terminal-cost-stmelectronics-outsource-manufacturer-2020-11 so a $2000 loss to SpaceX.
@avejst
3 жыл бұрын
Great video as always Thanks for sharing :-)
@rogeronslow1498
3 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to see this modelled in CST or similar.
@DrFrank-xj9bc
3 жыл бұрын
When I've seen these structures, and heard that 10GHz is 'low frequency', how does this compare to the 400..800MHz receiving frequency range of the former Arecibo telescope.. as there the individual reflector panels had been replaced years ago.. Do you think, that they implemented similar antenna array structures over the whole 300m dish?
@BasovMichail
3 жыл бұрын
I do love how did you repair it at the end. Could you share that magic orange tape with us? )))) P.S. I guess nobody who watch it don't want IC analysis...
@computerjlt
3 жыл бұрын
Irony is getting an ad for a "4g/5g radiation protector" beanie before watching this video lol
@RC-fp1tl
3 жыл бұрын
Same!
@logikgr
3 жыл бұрын
Same. WTFG (WTF Google)?
@richardwatkins6725
3 жыл бұрын
beautiful design
@TinCanSailor
3 жыл бұрын
Do you know how the terminal acquires signa lock? I am curious if the ground terminal uses GPS to share its location.
@leozendo3500
3 жыл бұрын
Would it be possible to decap some of the rf chips and see the die picture? I believe it would be lots of fun
@JimGriffOne
3 жыл бұрын
Looking at antenna design at 100GHz, would it be possible to downscale to open up the THz band? Or are the main limitations in the design of the oscillators/amplifiers? I understand making an oscillator and amplifier so small would be extremely difficult.
@davidpowell5603
3 жыл бұрын
That array of square patches is very small compared to the antennas, I doubt that it would have a bandgap at the operating frequency. I think a high impedance surface is more likely.
@Bob3519
3 жыл бұрын
What do you think about the $500 price point? Are the selling it at cost, at a loss, or making a profit on the hardware?
@TeslaTales59
3 жыл бұрын
Very complex but I did get a good lesson! How can a car GPS antenna work so well and be so small?
@rkan2
3 жыл бұрын
only 1Ghz i guess :P
@nekotherion7317
3 жыл бұрын
Full IC analysis, PCB xray, and acid etch the layers down on the IC's
@cowshittt
3 жыл бұрын
Not necessary to have two feeding points to achieve CP. The patch can be slightly elliptic making one of the diagonals of it capacitive and the other inductive. when fed two orthogonal modes can be excited achieving CP due to the reactive loading.
@lohikarhu734
3 жыл бұрын
the white paint, if it's like the paint on Canon lenses, is a tiny bit 'off-white', but is more 'white' in long-wave IR :-) for best thermal performance, as per you suggestion...I have to come back, for a '2nd helping' ;-) I see lots of R&S gear there. A subject that I know a little bit about ;-) bye for now.
@w5cdt
3 жыл бұрын
Nice job…..thanks!
@pazzaglini1
3 жыл бұрын
This phased array antenna seems to use true time division per your video. That is similar to what Boeing PAA uses. I am surprised it is a KU frequency antenna at this day in age. It appears they shrunk down the MMICs used in the Boeing antennas. This antenna is a hybrid design with separate positioner for partial steering at the 60deg lat. for coverage. What we don't see is the controller and the power supply that powers the beam steering. Also the polarizer is not known. The SPAC (system phased array controller) is not seen in your video that defines the bean forming bore site with the LNB and the BUC. Need more information to do a good evaluation. My company remanufactured the PAA for the E6-b on Tinker AFB that was built by Boeing.
@dogastus
3 жыл бұрын
Any idea what the gain of the antenna is?
@cogoid
3 жыл бұрын
From the FCC licence application: 33.2 dBi at 11.83 GHz (RX) 34.6 dBi at 14.25 GHz (TX) This corresponds to the aperture efficiency of about 56% Note that this is the gain with the beam at the boresight. With the beam at the maximum slant of 56 degrees, the gain will be 2.6 dB lower.
@dogastus
3 жыл бұрын
@@cogoid Thanks for the answer. So it seems near the same figure as an equivalnet sized parabolic dish but with the advantage of it being 'steerable'.
@rancosteel
3 жыл бұрын
If phased array technology has been around for 100 years then why did cable and internet service begin with dish satellite networking in the first place instead or fiber optic cables?
@Thesignalpath
3 жыл бұрын
Price.
@foxytoe
3 жыл бұрын
yes please. do ic.
@Alfredorubiocubillan
3 жыл бұрын
Hi brother how are you? I do have a question, How far the signal can reach? Let's say I put it on my house's roof and I walk 500 meters away from my house, could I still get the signal on my cellphone at that distance? By the way Amazing video!
@Golem386
3 жыл бұрын
Please please please do full IC analysis :-)
@robertfenney
3 жыл бұрын
Totally awesome!
@dpeilow
3 жыл бұрын
+1 for full IC analysis please...
@davidgustafik7968
3 жыл бұрын
Sooo, witchcraft, got it. Thanks for the great video!
@gionag
3 жыл бұрын
to answer the question... YES :) please
@JamesRains-u8b
2 ай бұрын
EBG likely to prevent surface wave propagation due to the finite gaps between the circular patch layer and subsequent coupled patch layers. These are circularly polarised elements. There’s a 90 degree hybrid between each antenna and front-end module.
@vaualbus
3 жыл бұрын
Would also interested to see what topology of array is this? i guess is 2D uniform array or not? Also I would imagine you need a pretty beast PC to simulate this... My 4 patches array I had to did for a project at university took like 4min to simulate to simulate 1k+ element I imagine it take hours....
@antoinejou1182
3 жыл бұрын
you don't need to simulate the entire array to make it. you can simulate it as an infinite array for almost 90% of the array, then just do the simulation for the surrounding (3 or 4 last rings is enough). Anyway, many company use supercalculator, 1 core per radiating element, meaning a thousand of core which is not a crazy investment for Musk :).
@TerryPullen
3 жыл бұрын
I thought Dishy was supposed to have a heater to melt snow. Looks like the ICs are the heater.
@w__a__l__e
3 жыл бұрын
thanks dude
@illiakukharenko8920
3 жыл бұрын
THUMBS UP FOR FULL IC ANALYSIS!!!
@TerryPullen
3 жыл бұрын
Can I have some of that red tape? I've got a bum knee.
@AgentOffice
3 жыл бұрын
Need zoom in
@John-oo9bu
Жыл бұрын
One downside with Starlink is that damage caused by dinosaurs isn't covered.. Had to replace mine twice already! 😢
@ernestowiebe5046
3 жыл бұрын
Make a video about your X-Ray machine
@yiannisross
2 жыл бұрын
curius of alternative uses, for those that have the firmware knowledge
@stevec5000
3 жыл бұрын
How are KZitem reviewers able to get these to tear apart when they aren't available for home use yet and the date has been pushed out to Late 2022?
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