The worst part about Klyden is that he knew that Topa is female and still made her hate all the females.
@Soulxstar
6 күн бұрын
The same thing Klyden's parents taught him, I can help but admire klyden from the writing angle (I hate him tho) because it's a person that learned that he was forced to change and yet it's so fixated on his culture that can't see the damage said culture is doing, he doesn't think about the life that it was took away from him because he's grateful with the life he has, and want to impose that idea into his child, he was hurt to find that he was a female at birth because his whole life was a lie but can't seem to understand that it was the lie that hurts not being born female
@jeremysteel-lr3he
5 күн бұрын
He changes near the end it actually very sweet
@bddb9239
5 күн бұрын
@jeremysteel-lr3he , once he realized how close he came to never being able to take back the things he said and did.
@witchofcandies3221
5 күн бұрын
@bddb9239 which was the wakeup call he needed. Not that what he did throughout the series wasn't wrong and ignorant, and i definately don't like him. But I can agree that seeing who he became by the end of the series was kinda sweet and did show that while he was ignorant, he DOES care more about topa than his beliefs
@jaredojeda2304
5 күн бұрын
She, he Is a she , no matter the operación , he Is a she
@Lieutenant_Dude
6 күн бұрын
Bortus did the right thing, but you can see Klyden has a huge heart and loves his child very much.
@shinraset
5 күн бұрын
I agree with you. I suppose it is as the adage goes, "Hells road is paved with good intentions." Klyden actively choosing ignorance and repetition of the cycle of hate and discrimination while understandable is not a good thing.
@reddawn1873
5 күн бұрын
There is such a thing as loving and being abusive It's so twisted
@XultanisDragon
5 күн бұрын
@@shinraset Not ignorance. The choice isn't being based off of something like that. The choice is being based on wanting to keep his child safe. He knows how mocclus will treat Topa and how his own people will demonize her and hurt her. Thats why he pushes for the surgery because like he said, unhappiness is better than despair. Klyden sees all things his child won't have because of how she was born and wants to protect her from that. The way you use ignorance for this situation doesn't fit the context.
@ED-LETRICAL
4 күн бұрын
Her *
@Spider-PunkOffical
4 күн бұрын
Her child* Let's not play make believe. That's a woman and no surgery will change that.
@HammyAndSammy
4 күн бұрын
Ah man goes to show how Victims can hurt others too, Klyden is a victim of their outdated belief, and now he's starting a cycle of misery again
@mrhalloween3592
5 күн бұрын
I love this dynamic because they’re both correct in their arguments; it’s the culture that they are forced to exist in that’s wrong.
@yonakakurai1737
6 күн бұрын
Okay, you convinced me. I'll watch it just because these characters.
@Sage2000
6 күн бұрын
Trust me... Masterclass in storytelling
@Shaakireen8875
5 күн бұрын
What?? These disgusting gay + aliens?! 🤢🤢
@AnAppleWithEyes
5 күн бұрын
I too recently gave in and am 6 eps in. It’s pretty dang good
@daigothrenten3236
5 күн бұрын
I love them fav characters
@spirited154
4 күн бұрын
Yep. Fellow convert here. I'm just getting into S2 and I've closed every episode saying "This show has no right to be this damn good!" Absolutely stellar on every level.
@SoldierofKreig
3 күн бұрын
The fact klyden was always a female really shines a light on current conditions people deal with. The truth shall set you free especially if you accept it and not run from it like Klyden
@SnakeMan448
5 күн бұрын
Klyden should be angry at the society that made him male without his consent.
@scarletbrotherhood7273
4 күн бұрын
Why should Klyden be angry at his own society/culture? Moreover, why are we applying human morality to an alien species? You really think humanity is a beacon of morality or something? You think we’re elevating above the rest of the galaxy, and they must rise to meet our morale standards?
@sinlordpink8147
4 күн бұрын
@@scarletbrotherhood7273We were born to inherit the stars.
@SnakeMan448
4 күн бұрын
@@scarletbrotherhood7273 Surely even alien species care about consent.
@scarletbrotherhood7273
4 күн бұрын
@@SnakeMan448 Why would they? Or better question, why would you assume they would? We’re talking about something that is, of course, universally understood and accepted here on Earth (for the most part). That being said, the Moclans very clearly don’t when it comes to this. Once again you are using human morality to dictate what is acceptable in alien cultures. It’s a TV show so this is discussion simply for the sake of discussion. This statement isn’t directed at you, just anyone reading through the comments.
@scarletbrotherhood7273
4 күн бұрын
@@sinlordpink8147 Terra Firma I see you
@mreese8764
5 күн бұрын
I like how formal their speech is at home, compared to the casual speech at their star ship work.
@gloopglop7540
6 күн бұрын
Bortus was right from the beginning
@Sage2000
6 күн бұрын
Yes, but it was a necessary journey for both
@ryanlow6901
5 күн бұрын
The Orville is such a great show that I hope another season or 2 come out soon 👇agree
@Sage2000
6 күн бұрын
Masterclass in writing, acting and directing
@thecultofjohnnydelr.soulsw7010
4 күн бұрын
😂à
@christianthrasher8677
4 күн бұрын
Unhappiness and despair are two sides of the same coin I understand that klyden wants to protect his child but what he did to topa is wrong
@spike23s12
5 күн бұрын
Unhappiness is better than despair! Wow!
@thomasreese8028
4 күн бұрын
Unhappiness is despair.
@humansperson3404
2 күн бұрын
It's not
@thomasreese8028
2 күн бұрын
@@humansperson3404 is too
@danielkoenen859
3 күн бұрын
I adore moclans. They're so intense and so on point.
@carriemosman5678
10 сағат бұрын
Klyden says he loves him with all his heart , but not really cause unlike bortus he only loves him as male, while Bortus loves his child, unconditionally male or female.
@jasonbourne5020
6 күн бұрын
Straight with extra steps
@toxic_tomb1238
6 күн бұрын
To be fair, being straight on their planet is like being mega gay in the 1930s on earth, like (spoilers if you are planning on watching the show, if you dont care or have already watched then this doesnt matter) this one elderly moclan woman was forced to live in the mountains in a cave because she was a woman, because all female moclans are forced to get a sex change to be male at birth, because female moclans are rare and are seen as a bad omen(i think) so they are an oppressed minority.
@x_Laki_x
6 күн бұрын
If I remember correctly both of them find out they were born female.
@babelette
6 күн бұрын
No, only the mate is female who was transitioned to male. They are talking about their kid who is in the same boat.
@Ampheline
6 күн бұрын
@@x_Laki_xKlyden was born female, Bortus was born male
@Ampheline
6 күн бұрын
OP, you DO realize that dating a trans person does not equate to dating their assigned gender at birth, right?
@Silverin_
3 күн бұрын
"I would give anything to be ignorant of my beginnings" A truly deep line for folk wanting and trying to forget their past trauma as whatever gender they were before transitioning. I myself am MtF but im still closeted about it irl
@Silverin_
3 күн бұрын
One day I'll finally be able to start my transition, and maybe then I'll finally feel at home in my own skin
@josephmckee3605
4 күн бұрын
That's some classic projestion going on their, can't accept himself so is unable to accept others like him
@williamnone
3 күн бұрын
I like how this portrays marriage through an alien couple.
@bluecoin3771
Күн бұрын
Unhappiness and despair are closer than one may think.
@RyoKatsumata
2 күн бұрын
This is acting. Like, really acting. I can't explain the feeling I get when I see these to argue. It's so raw and real man.
@azcomicgeek
3 күн бұрын
I hate myself for what society did to me so I will pass that hate onto my offspring instead of challenging that society.
@romelleabdulaleem283
3 күн бұрын
That's why Klyden is so screwed up.
@projekk_wasabi6301
4 күн бұрын
I don't know why, but the Orville actually made me cry sometimes
@Arbidarb
5 күн бұрын
They did well with Klyden's character. I always felt like he came across as a woman. The fact that he actually was one fits perfectly.
@Brokenheartpoet
5 күн бұрын
No truer words have ever been said
@andrewcummings7832
4 күн бұрын
Unhappiness is just another route to despair
@miriamemanueleforneris3701
5 күн бұрын
Klyden: Are you mocking me? Bortus: Im mockling you! (Mocking+moclan)
@notahandle965
5 күн бұрын
500 cigarettes
@Qwer-teaBinch
5 күн бұрын
Me every time something slightly upsetting happens
@LovesGaming37
5 күн бұрын
Unhappiness in neighbors with despair
@CrossplatformGamerMasterRace
Күн бұрын
I wonder if Klyden will choose to transition now that he has left Mocklin society.. it could make for a powerful episode.
@shockwavecg
3 күн бұрын
Here are both your Emmy's, your Oscars, and your BAFTAs. Well done both of you, sirs!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏🌹🌹💐💐
@king_controlled_chaos91
Күн бұрын
Unhappiness is better than despair
@lilyrose1581
3 күн бұрын
But here's the thing Topa has options outside of their culture and Society and I think that's even more disparaging knowing that there is other options you feel even more trapped
@proudamerican1933
2 күн бұрын
Like a wise man once said “I would rather be clean then comfortable”
@williamwinder5011
15 сағат бұрын
Funny, with all your heart,you say? It's a shame then, that your heart is too small to love at all.
@Moving_Target65
18 сағат бұрын
I do not know much about the Star Trek franchise. But logically speaking, Bortus could take Topa and move to Texas, USA and cite ancient local tribal laws that forbid sex change surgery on children. Just a thought. 😊
@elenachristian9860
3 күн бұрын
Klyden is the very definition of self-loathing.
@oliveks82
3 күн бұрын
Alright okay, I’ll watch this show. I’ve seen enough shorts to get me interested lol
@mardigrassnowballs3258
2 күн бұрын
I truly on a visceral level cannot stand Klyden!
@AliceSylph
16 сағат бұрын
I love this because it massively speaks to in the closet gay/bi parents "teaching" internalised homophobia
@MH-yx1pv
4 күн бұрын
Self Hatred. Turned inwards, it becomes our personal hells: addiction, obsession, compulsion, depression, violent relationships, illness. Projected outward, it becomes our collective hells: violence, war, crime, oppression
@KJetixsSuccessor
4 күн бұрын
Unhappiness *is* despair dumb-s.
@kazma7972
3 күн бұрын
I can understand Klyden
@cobaltprime9467
3 күн бұрын
Klyden didn’t love Toppa enough
@naimaibrahim6997
2 күн бұрын
He dose, he just has a bad way of showing it
@gemmaparas6014
5 күн бұрын
what kind of society do they live in? Theirs is so uselessly repressive! Do they not deserve happiness?
@pbonfanti
5 күн бұрын
I dont call uselless, for a very harsh environment, it made sense, in another context , would be too much, also how they reproduce without females, the females are now obsolete, like single women who use sperm banks say they need no men.
@OnionyCabbage
3 күн бұрын
It’s funny that after this episode, tons of people started calling Klyden “she” just because of transphobia.
@Darlf_Sevil
2 күн бұрын
Anything ? You know they can delete memoriesright ?
@chrisfreda503
5 күн бұрын
Unhappiness and despair sounds the same to me
@LuEynch
5 күн бұрын
Dictionary Reference Unhappiness: Unhappiness refers to a state of sadness or dissatisfaction. It can be caused by various factors, such as negative life events, unmet expectations, or relationship problems. Unhappiness can manifest in different ways, including feelings of sadness, anger, frustration, or loneliness. Despair: Despair signifies a complete loss of hope. It's a feeling of utter hopelessness and dejection that can be brought on by challenging or unfortunate circumstances. Its not the same and i think despair is way worse
@HakoYigarashi
20 сағат бұрын
FIVE HUNDRED CIGARETTES!!!
@jarikshan130
2 күн бұрын
Klyden is wrong. Unhappiness LEADS to despair. I understand where he's coming from and what he's been taught all his life, but he is still very much wrong.
@JasonSmith-yo8nd
5 күн бұрын
Klyden never considered the 3rd option of just being female.
@Sly9192
5 күн бұрын
Yeah he did, he would be going against their people's beliefs and could have been killed.
@JayReaction530
3 күн бұрын
He didn't have a choice
@JazRealEstateBuyer
4 күн бұрын
Yes yes yes Woman are the holders of Wisdom!
@legendoflex6881
5 күн бұрын
Bortus is right. Kayden is wrong. We feel for them both
@randallsmerna384
5 күн бұрын
Great argument against gender swapping... What could go wrong? 🤔🤔
@naimaibrahim6997
2 күн бұрын
No it's a great argument against forcing genders on people who don't feel comfortable with it
@adamolivas1895
5 күн бұрын
How long did it take for them in the make up chair
@jessedunn9835
3 күн бұрын
It wasnt about them or their gender dysphoria and inability of acceptance of their daughter cuz of their gender.
@princehadesplayz9160
Күн бұрын
He says he would do anything but that’s a lie
@kairrma
3 күн бұрын
the fuckin orville
@thestreamingone8885
Күн бұрын
"I'd rather my child suffer than know the truth." Klyden truly was worthless.
@BalthasarCarduelis
4 күн бұрын
Klyden is a satire of TRA's, who could not be openly criticised for the abuse they did to children through their vicarious childhood transition at the time that this program was made. Thankfully that age of insanity is beginning to wane, and we can openly say things like this comment now.
@bizzaroblake2519
5 күн бұрын
Im no expert but isnt unhappiness the same as despair or closely related?
@pscion12
5 күн бұрын
Despair basically means you lose all hope. In a sense it’s worse, you lose motivation, you feel fatigued, you lose sight of any objectives, you fall into a persistent state of sadness, it’s a horrible place. Some fall into that state but manage to get out but some don’t.
@bizzaroblake2519
5 күн бұрын
@pscion12 though I feel at one point the can happen at the same time depending on how bad it is
@Qwer-teaBinch
5 күн бұрын
I think it depends on the person. Me personally, I GO through despair all the time, but I fought tooth and nail to get to feel this range of emotions. To pursue the knowledge of why has been encoded into my D.N.A, even if my body has trouble following suit. I'd never give that knowledge up for blissful ignorance, but at the same time, I realize this is not a burden just anyone should carry, lest they be crushed. The hardest part about it is not dumping it on others.
@pbonfanti
5 күн бұрын
No, unhappinnes is mild , despair is suffering which make you lose even the reasoning skills.
@michellel564
3 күн бұрын
What does the kid want?
@idkpeerpressure2854
5 күн бұрын
Klyden actually went through it himself, so I'm inclined to take his side over Bortus' even though i agree with Bortus on a moral level
@gem4life933
5 күн бұрын
Yea, but I think the difference is. The environment Topa would be raised in. If they were on their home planet. Being female might very well be a death sentence. But Topa is raised on a ship with many different species of life forms. And while her own people would look down on her. She would have many more that would stand with her and protect her
@IamMeHere2See
5 күн бұрын
I know. I have sympathy for Klyden's position. That's what makes this so engaging!
@asdfg9659
5 күн бұрын
nuh. no one has a right to destroy their kids sex
@IamMeHere2See
4 күн бұрын
@@asdfg9659 I get what you're saying, but the argument is that this was once deemed a necesssary medical procedure to increase survivability for the species as a whole, because they swriously fucked up their planet. If you want, think of it as an extreme version of gender roles. They had a purpose, but now society has progressed past the the state where they could be considered required. The point isn't that it's "never acceptable." The point is that it is "no longer necesaary." The best way to look at it is to compare it to humanity & Vulcan's own policies of anti-genetic engineering & strict adherence to logic in Star Trek. They're ideologies that they should have long outgrown, but their echoes ressonate to this day. In Klyden's case, it's manifested as a fear of nonacceptance, and it's his journey to confront his own fear to fight for his child's acceptance, whatever she chooses.
@squarebear619
Күн бұрын
I knew he acted very effeminate and that he assumed the maternal role and now understand why. I just thought it was their norm as a hmosxl couple. The changes they do don't really seem to work well.
@He_yzekb67
4 күн бұрын
y'all so who's the top between klyden and bortus?
@user-co1hh6qx6v
3 күн бұрын
Commenting on all vid
@glassesm.3
Күн бұрын
What got me during this scene is that they only want what's best for Topa, but it's their own different experiences and circumstances that's preventing them from reaching that goal together like they should as a married couple. UGH, I love their relationship and journey throughout the show so much.😩🥺🥹🥰🥰
@Trillioncapo
4 күн бұрын
I like how people treat a series like its real life how dumb can people be🤣
@naimaibrahim6997
2 күн бұрын
Bro thinks fiction isn't supposed to be a reflection of reality, truly media literacy doesn't exist anymore
@RealityTrailers
5 күн бұрын
Traitor!!! Wait, what?
@connermartin2571
5 күн бұрын
What is this movie
@yvindthorsby7916
5 күн бұрын
TV show, The Orville
@erynkados
5 күн бұрын
It's the TV series the Orville
@capincrunch1184
5 күн бұрын
Ask him why Siri has sucked since it first came out on the iPhone 😂 as him how after the 4s Siri actually has progressively gotten worse. Ask him why the chip is the only update
@thecultofjohnnydelr.soulsw7010
4 күн бұрын
What is this LGBTQA storyline, I don't get it 🤷🏻♀️
@anotherarmchairhistorian2831
5 күн бұрын
Klyden was a piece of scat.
@user-zd8on8bu3o
6 күн бұрын
Then you are a coward
@valz2282
6 күн бұрын
U try finding out u were born a girl but grew up a man it can scar people but judging from ur response I’m sure u love scarring kids don’t ya
@tiattahiscupcakecandykatan2453
6 күн бұрын
he has woman immotions, never go wokeness say no to LGBTQ
@takummie
5 күн бұрын
And you are a hypocrite
@DoraTheMFDestroya
5 күн бұрын
@takummie No, they aren't.
@tylerhendrix14
3 күн бұрын
But... unhappiness and dispair are the same thing..
@fdfnfgnjfdjfjfk1436
Күн бұрын
lgbt??
@Wesley-1776
5 күн бұрын
Remind me how this is pro trans?
@stancal9249
5 күн бұрын
Because this is earlier on in the arc, before the resolution. The full arc definitely promotes the idea of being true to one's self and not conforming to societal views on "proper" gender identity. Even Klyden comes around to it. It's a little circuitous, but that's because the arc simmers and stews before resolving.
@stancal9249
5 күн бұрын
**to add additional context, Topa is born female, very soon thereafter has a government-directed surgery to become male. Later in their life, they admit to feelings of alienation and confusion. Upon learning of their surgery, she undergoes an additional surgery to return to female. In a very literal sense, she fills the transgender story of "being born a different gender". They just throw in a gender surgery when she was a baby that deals more with Bortus and Klyden's feelings on their child's gender identity into conflict as well as highlight the culture's societal views on gender.
@Wesley-1776
5 күн бұрын
@@stancal9249 No I know. But the arc ends with a culture that trys to force children to transition being seen as evil and a force to transition at birth child reverting to their actual sex. Change Moclean to Trans community and the whole thing gos right out the window.
@leanmeanmarceline5196
5 күн бұрын
@@Wesley-1776 it's because the mochlans are forcing the choice on them, when topa decides to live as a girl it is shown to be a good thing because they are choosing their own identity instead of listening to what her oppressive home culture says. Also it might be better to look at it through the lens of forced unnecessary corrective surgery being done to intersex children to make them "normal"
@neitan6891
4 күн бұрын
To me it reads more pro-intersex. Doctors and families in the past have picked and forced a gender identity on intersex infants, often performing “corrective” surgery to make the children conform physically to one gender or the other and hiding it from the child as they grow up. Many don’t identify with the sex they were forced into as infants, with some identifying as the other sex and some not identifying with either but that choice and their original anatomy was taken from them by doctors and patents trying to make them “normal”
@jaydubyo
5 күн бұрын
Unhappiness is despair... despair is unhappiness😅
@twistdspartan8133
5 күн бұрын
It's funny tbh... cause look at what's happening today. Insane parents forcing their children to comform to what they think is right instead of teaching their children valuable lessons and letting them decide when they are grown at 18.
@naimaibrahim6997
2 күн бұрын
Funny considering they're arguing over letting their child decide before they're 18
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