Very reasonable assment, however, there is a slight caviat. If Souther had been in command he would have done the reasonable decision to fly with an escort, lets say at least two cruiser sized vessels. Mars can afford to fly their BBs alone due their technical superiority and their hangar capacity, Earth cant and they know it, so they rely on their numbers. No Dreadnought would ever fly solo. It would be far more likely that instead of the King, the Nathan Hale might pick up the Cant survivors, since the lead leos can be seen on solo assignment far more often. This would put a whole new spin on the events since the leos have two things going for them, their utterly oversized PDC grid (due to them being of terrible quality) and their marine complement. It would be an interesting thought experiment.
@smithcourtney
4 жыл бұрын
Space doc says that the Agatha king and other ships of that class were made go fly alone and were adaptable.
@protato911
4 жыл бұрын
@@smithcourtney Yes but I from what I know that might not be the strategy that Earth used, If I remember correctly despite having way less advanced ship compare to Mars (and the short coming of the new Leonidas class battleship didn't help), they have way more ships compare to Mars, 5 to 1 during that event. So that is very likely that the Agatha King will be leading a small fleet (maybe with a few cruiser or destroyer escort) that can proven to help. Like space doc said Mars have completely different philosophy in designing their Navy compare to Earth, building small amount of very powerful and multi functional ships compare to Earth strategy of building cheaper one or refitting older ships. Plus the outcome can also depending of the Captain of the ships, one of the reason the Donnager lost is because the Captain underestimate the Stealth ships and even that the Dony manage to took out 4 before the boarding. I Believe that due to the limitation of the ship/fleet Souther will be more careful in picking fight, using hit and run or coordinate the fleet differently rather than turning the ship into basically a stationary gun platform.
@joesmith1810
3 жыл бұрын
@@protato911 @courtney smith Also remember that even if the agatha king was made to go alone, at this point it was rather long in the tooth compared to something like the donnager, and as a result the navy's consideration of what to do would likely have been different from when it was originally designed.
@494Farrell
4 жыл бұрын
The truman class has an amazing pdc armament, the targeting systems weren't that great so they compensated with more guns, this ended up being overkill and made the ship all but impervious to torpedo attacks. Souther would have also been aware of the limitations of his ship and probably gone all in right off the bat, with far more torpedoes.
@joesmith1810
3 жыл бұрын
The ship with the overcompensation was actually the Leonidas class battleship. However you are right that Souther would have used basically continuous torpeo fire, while likely burning hard for friendly space and signaling for reinforcements (especially since he would likely see his first duty to be to warn UNN command of the "Martian" attack on a UNN ship.
@DaddyHensei
3 жыл бұрын
Ya First Pass clearly missed that. Not to mention the King is more reliable as it is a dated but tested design. The donnager had to shut her engines down. Souther also pretty good at killing martians. So he’s used to fighting a technologically superior enemy. He wouldn’t be as overconfident as the Martians were.
@will2brown50
2 жыл бұрын
The Truman class has less PDCs than the donnager. Significantly less. Which makes sense given it is 100m shorter but still. It would have no better chance of intercepting amun Ra torpedoes than the donnager.
@admiralcasperr
4 жыл бұрын
the Truman class can hold a lot more marines then the Donnager, as it's a hybrid Battleship/Troop Carrier, thus, even with the large boarding party it might've won the boarding battle.
@OceanHedgehog
3 жыл бұрын
The Donnager's problem wasn't that it didn't have enough marines, the issue was that it had been riddled with railgun and torpedo hits, which would have incapacitated most of its marines and crew.
@riosasin3086
3 жыл бұрын
but even marine of MCRN is better than earth
@riosasin3086
3 жыл бұрын
@@AnonD38 i still wonder why donnager don't have goliath armor squad, did they dead before they suit up ?
@riosasin3086
3 жыл бұрын
@@AnonD38 Donnager was flag ship, power armor squad alway on board, i understand about the budget, may be because underestimate their enermy the squad had been kill before suit up when the first torpedo hit
@bjturon
3 жыл бұрын
Or Admiral Souther, unlike Captain Yao, opens fire with everything he has at the first chance... or his battleship is escorted because he doesn't carry escorts in the belly of the ship, the hanger space likely accounting for the difference in size between the Donnager and Agatha King. I be interested in a video on how Yao could have won the battle.
@OceanHedgehog
3 жыл бұрын
@@tachy1801 Yeah, Donnager successfully took out 4 stealth ships before they could even launch the boarding pods. Had the Donnager launched its four corvette-class frigates, there's no chance the stealth ships could win.
@phetproductions5818
3 жыл бұрын
@@OceanHedgehog The Donnager can only carry two corvette class frigates. It can swap that out for 4 morrigan class patrol destroyers.
@Matt-yg8ub
3 жыл бұрын
If the Tachi wasn’t parked.....and was out doing its job in the first place, Yao wouldn’t have been surprised by the rail guns and would have simply missile spammed the PROTOGEN Ships.
@Matt-yg8ub
3 жыл бұрын
@@OceanHedgehog it didn’t have 4. Just look at the docking bay.
@Matt-yg8ub
3 жыл бұрын
@@phetproductions5818 sources vary on the composition and numbers....but I agree with you.
@marcc1830
4 жыл бұрын
Souther is a more cautious commander than Captain Yau. He likely wouldn't just let the unknown signal follow the King and wait for them to get in range for engagement. There is high likelihood that he would radio in more ships. The King might still be loss but there would be a much larger engagement and higher chance of exposure for Protogen. The UNN has many more ships in the system and since UNN ships are at disadvantaged one on one with MCRN ships, there would likely be more ships being able to respond to call for help. Thing is, Captain Yau is commanding the most powerful ship in the system, for her, the worse is facing off a UN fleet. They might have the numbers but no stealth tech. Souther on the other hand would be commanding a old cruiser, expecting possible engagement with Mar with stealth tech and better ships. They would have different expectation going into the fight.
@lastechocorp1841
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah the Donnager only fires 1 volley of torpedoes entirely confident in there superior tech. To them it didn’t matter who the enemy were worst case they were UN and even then it would be 6 outdated ships designed by suits not soldiers. Where as worst case for the Agatha King it’s 6 MCRN fast attack cruisers. So one Truman class in that situation is gonna start burning for friendly space whilst dumping as many torpedos as they can and would be avoiding a CQB with 6 more advanced ships swarming it. They may engage in CQB when the withering torpedo barrage reduced the enemy numbers to something like 3 vs 1 by this time the Agatha King will have taken significant damage from enemy rail guns by which time the 3 remaining ships will inevitably have caught more than a few PDC rounds. The battle would be much longer but the main difference in my mind is that the Agatha King wouldn’t be relying on the first volley of torpedos to kill all enemy ships because they won’t be under estimating the enemy
@mikejohnstonbob935
4 жыл бұрын
Didn't protogen initiate CQB? they're should be much faster and agatha's reduced PDC means they're more likely to be boarded. Donnager fired 1 volley because they only had time to fire 1. There seemed to be very little time between the first volley and the CQB and everything would play out exactly the same between the two ships.
@lastechocorp1841
4 жыл бұрын
@@mikejohnstonbob935 true though the donneger is said to be equipped with rapid reload torpedo tubes both fore and aft. if they hadnt been over confident they would have done what the Agatha king would have and thats a near constant barrage of torpedoes. also the time from first volley away to cqb was not very short as torpedo range is massively grater than cqb effective range. now this is mitigated in that the donneger wouldn't necessarily fire on site ie the moment the protogen ships were in range.
@joesmith1810
3 жыл бұрын
@@mikejohnstonbob935 there were at least a few minutes between first torpedo launch and even the first salvos of torpedos reaching their respective targets. Enough for a few conversations in the CIC, and even long enough that the captain was fine with LEAVING THE CIC (for some bloody stupid reason) and coming back before the first PDC rounds were fired.
@Matt-yg8ub
3 жыл бұрын
@@mikejohnstonbob935 Nope, the battle was time compressed for tv. The Donnager fired a single conservative volley because Yao was far too overconfident. As for the Truman class having fewer PDCs that’s a function of the Donnager mounting more for Propaganda reasons...and also being larger and needing more. The Truman class was legendarily defensible and could withstand missile barrages Far in excess of what few missiles even six stealth frigates could conventionally launch.
@milocabral7428
3 жыл бұрын
A fight between the Donnie and Agatha would likely not be as one sided as you think. For starters admiral souther is a far less cocky and arguably, a more competent commander than Yao, this cautious approach would likely aid the Agatha king in its battle. Another factor is as stated on the wiki, “The effective targeting range of the Truman-class is shorter than that of most MCRN warships but its extensive PDC grid enables it to endure even the largest torpedo volleys, protecting the ship from harm while coordinating fleet movements or bringing her railguns to bear.” The ship is aging but known for its extreme sturdiness and reliability, leading me to believe it has a stronger hull than the Donnie, the ship also doubles as a troop carrier meaning it’s boarding operations could be far more effective than the Donnie and fending off boarding operations from the Donnie would be likely easy, given the close proximity battle, the range of the rail guns means very little, a single shot from the Agatha would kill the Donnie and it is my belief with the presumably thicker hull of the Agatha it could take two to destroy the king herself. While she has less torpedo launchers (by only 5 I may add) they are still also capable of loading multiple warheads including tactical nuclear which both may very well load in this instance, and it is also worth mentioning select ships of the Truman class were upgraded to hold more torpedo launchers and point defense weapons, it is my firm believe given the importance of the Agatha king she would have these upgrades meaning the Agatha would actually possess more auto loading torpedo launchers by 1. however still possess 10 less PDC cannons. All in all given the circumstances of crews commanders and ships I think that the battle could truly go either way
@will2brown50
2 жыл бұрын
The donnager dominates the Truman in every aspect. It is martian, so significantly higher quality, + 100m longer therefore just significantly better armed. Donnie foehammer railguns are way bigger and basically one shot ships. The Donnie also has much more PDCs and they are better than the Truman class. Just no competition here. Realistically though, the UNN can field at least three Truman classes per every donnager class, so it's never a 1 on 1 situation. The Agatha king was concerned that the Hammurabi could seriously damage or destroy it. The Hammurabi is half the size of the donnager.
@Bajicoy
4 жыл бұрын
Don't forget the Agatha King has superior infantry numbers so the stealth ships would not even try to close in being content to barage the Agatha king with missiles without entering cqb The terror that Admiral Suthers inflicted the MCRN jupiter/saturn fleets with was really remarkable. Great break down!
@tackytrooper
3 жыл бұрын
The UNN suffered much heavier losses numerically than Mars did, Souther or no Souther. Had the losses been roughly proportional, the UNN would have maintained a 5-1 numerical advantage. But it did not, so it lost multiple ships for every martian ship destroyed.
@Bajicoy
3 жыл бұрын
@@tackytrooper yup, reminds me of the UNSC vs Covenant battles of old
@VuLamDang
3 жыл бұрын
@@tackytrooper Overall UNN loss more ships than MCRN, but iirc Souther's Jupiter fleet loss was comparable to MCRN equivalent fleet - Souther is a legendary admiral, but his fleet is just one of the fleets that engaged in the war
@reentrysfs6317
2 жыл бұрын
@@VuLamDang it looks like the unn we’re on the offensive most of the time So that might be the reason for there defeat
@Bitchslapper316
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, it was well made. My thoughts on it are a bit different and I think you are grossly underestimating the UN in this situation. The main reason the Donnager was defeated was because the captain was extremely smug, partly because of the firepower she had at her disposal. Most martians are extremely paranoid as well, including the captain of the Donnager. She underestimated her possible opposition, she didn't take the threat seriously and she didn't believe Holden. Those aren't mistakes Souther would have made. It's more likely Souther would have listened to Holden, put the king on high alert and had it launch all of It's support craft. He also would have called in reinforcements well before they were engaged in battle. It wouldn't have been the agatha king against a few stealth ships, it would have been a battle group on high alert. There is a reason the UN was winning the last war against mars. Numbers and strategy.
@tackytrooper
3 жыл бұрын
It's hard to call what they did "winning." Both sides were being attited heavily, but near the end of the war it is stated that the UNN's numerical superiority has shrunk from 5-1 to 3-1. Some basic napkin math indicates that the kill ratio was wildly in favor of Mars. And the more they shrunk that gap the more their tech advantage would have begun to tell. It also has to be assumed that in such a lethal, fast-paced war that replacement of lost ships would be mostly limited to ships already nearly complete, which would rule out any potential industrial advantage of Earth in significantly impacting the course of the war.
@Matt-yg8ub
3 жыл бұрын
@@tackytrooper Mars can’t win a war against Earth. FULL STOP. It might prevail in a limited conflict, but in an actual war, Earth holds the sword of Damocles over their heads. MAD prevents Mars from actually ‘winning’ anything. Souther was winning in the Jovian system and would have taken the Martian naval yards at Calisto (basically ending Mars ability to fight) If Nguyen hadn’t screwed things up.
@ElzariusUnity
4 жыл бұрын
In books, Cant is not that important by itself. It's just one of the hundreds of ice haulers. To OPA it was just a just enough reason to spark a rebellion.
@CoffeeFiend1
2 жыл бұрын
Theresa Yao was quite arrogant though and didn't believe anything could take on the Donnager effectively. Admitedly she didn't initially know the 6 ships had railguns. But had she known ahead of time she was fighting 6 frigates with railguns she would have launched her auxiliary craft and bought her railguns online far sooner. In the actual battle she leaves her railguns quite late and only orders them online when she grows impatient the battle is dragging on and wants to finish it.
@JoaoSoares-rs6ec
5 жыл бұрын
the Truman might be less advanced but was even matched to the donager, sutter was the best the UNN had, he had caused so many troubles to MCRN they wouldn't have engaged easily, in my view Sutter would first call four supor, jammed he would head to the rest of the jupiter fleet shortning the distance and considering the jaming other ships would be sent, the donager was hap way to mars, considering weaker torpedo guidance he would have fired more then just a dozen torpedos, the UNN had good PDC so he woul position on a way to minimise the ship profile and maximize PDC couverage, once in railgun range they would engage same results, if sucesseful in ringing the bell by this time the amon ra ships would have picked the incoming UNN ships and bug out, if not the results would have been the same, a skiff our shutle powerd down its just a piece of debree,
@tackytrooper
3 жыл бұрын
No the Agatha King is decidedly not a match for the Donnie, ship to ship. The Donnie lost because of its arrogant captain. With a better leader the CQB battle outcome would have probably been quite different.
@JoaoSoares-rs6ec
3 жыл бұрын
@@tackytrooper less advanced no doubt, but they are a matched, yes the captain was arrogant the hole Martian navy is, that's why it would have been different whit the Agatha, this is about tactics not technology.
@hanz5555
4 жыл бұрын
I dont think Eros would crash into Earth because Julie said to Miller she was RACING, most likely with Roci.
@s.31.l50
4 жыл бұрын
Your contents are great, keep up the good work!
@owentaylor8700
5 жыл бұрын
great idea for series, well done
@FirstPassOfficial
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@Husker5454
5 жыл бұрын
Nice ! I like the swap idea . Your vids are really well put together . Il try help promote !!
@FirstPassOfficial
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Its very much appreciated :) I’ve got a few more ideas to swap ships around so I’ll try to keep ‘em coming
@DaddyHensei
3 жыл бұрын
I think you truly underestimated Souther and the Agatha King. Mars believed the donnager was invincible. Souther and the UNN know that the Agatha King while powerful isn’t immortal. Not to mention while being older design the Truman class can go toe to toe with a donnager. Souther I think would have fired a lot more torpedoes and would have burned hard for UNN controlled space all the while calling in for reinforcements as the UNN knows they are at a tech disadvantage. Because Souther is in command, I’d say he’d even have a decent chance at getting away. At the very least the Agatha King would have exhausted every last weapon it had its disposal.
@peadarruane6582
5 жыл бұрын
Spoiler Warning . . . . . . Without Holden and Miller, would they have figured out the Ring Station and opened the gates, and would some like Ashford had gotten their way, and end up provoking the station into cauterising the whole system. Then again without holden to steal the limelight Maneo mightn't have gotten jealous of the press Holden was gettin at the gate and not started up the whole thing lol
@lastechocorp1841
4 жыл бұрын
They wouldn’t have had the influence of Clarissa Mao they wouldn’t have gone in shooting and cooler heads may have prevailed
@stevinacanstevinacan9618
3 жыл бұрын
eeehhhh I don't think this is how it goes at all. The Donnager lost to the stealth ship because it was an inexperienced crew vs an extremely experienced one. If this was the Agatha King headed by Sutherland I think you get an extremely different outcome maybe even an outright victory for the Agatha King.
@stevinacanstevinacan9618
3 жыл бұрын
@Kato Ho Ten Soeng its general use of tactics this other channel did a really good break down as to how the crew of the Donnager the writer made sure everyone knew how little experience they had, most just used Sims and the Captain's "experience" she was bragging about was bullying belter pilots in a Flag ships. Meanwhile the crew of the Anubis were military contractors. Generally that means they're battle hardened vets who were the best of the best. So the Anubis wasn't so much more advanced technologically their crew just had way more experience in a "fair fight" out in space.
@DaddyHensei
3 жыл бұрын
I agree. I’m pretty sure Suther would have fired everything he had at the very least against those ships. Not to mention the Protogen ships only have 3 pdc guns leaving clear gaps in their point defense. Because well their primary defense is their stealth. Surely the King would have a probably got 3 of those ships with it opening barrage. The Agatha King was also a very important ship to the UNN and would have had the upgrades for the Truman class. The Truman class is also while date more dependable and rugged than the donnie. As well as the crew has far more experience but also far more experience with dealing with a technological superior opponent. I also doubt the Agatha King would have been alone like the donnie, since the donnie can carry her escort ships in her hangar. UNN wouldn’t leave their capital ships undefended. There would be at least a destroyer or something along those lines with the Agatha King. Suther would also try to escape to UNN controled space all the while calling for help. He would be focused on his mission of getting information back to UNN command.
@relikt582
2 жыл бұрын
While I agree the Agatha King would take more torpedo hits, it is unlikely that the initial barrage would have been as pathetic as it was in this video. Souther would have launched 40, if not more, due to the doctrinal difference of quantity vs quality
@ChanticoChulo
3 жыл бұрын
back ground music is epic got me wanting to Play Star trek online and blow up some Klingons lmao
@marcusclementson4026
4 жыл бұрын
Protogen stealth ships v OPA Behemoth would be interesting
@redforest9269
4 жыл бұрын
That would require time travel.
@MemoirsofaBasketcase
3 жыл бұрын
Couple rail gun hits would pop the Behemoth.
@JipSlinger
2 жыл бұрын
OPAS behemoth is actually one of the stupidest "warships" ever. it will never be able to dodge railgun fire, even outside of the 1000km railgun range. The behemoth can probably not fire its own railguns, because it will likely rip the entire hull apart because it was not designed for military use. clear win for the protogen stealth ships, unless the behemoth carries so much torpedoes the stealth ships cant handle the first volleys because of their pdc disatvantage. however, if the protogen ships get in to railgun range (which they likely will) they will only have to aim for the reactor and the behemoth is done.
@L8ugh1ngm8n1
4 жыл бұрын
Interesting premise with a few flaws. 1). The only reason the Donnager went was because Holden's message said that they had found Martian tech on board the Scopuli. He was basically blaming Mars for the lose of the Cant. Remember the Cant would have remained the same no matter which ship arrived as it was Belter created term to highlight the lose of a ship that the Belters considered important to their survival. 2). Nyugen command the Agatha King not Souther. Nyugen was in the pocket of Mao and Protogen 3). Suother commanded the Okimbo., so somewhere along the line their would have had to have been a change in command. 4). Mao was in bed with certain parts of the UN so it makes very little sense for a UN flagship to have gone and investigated the circumstances, even if it had I doubt the Stealth ships would have fired on it.
@c4tze
3 жыл бұрын
i hope in the tv series earth builds more amunra ships to hunt marco
@user-cz1yu1tc8e
4 жыл бұрын
+100500 for that *supreme* music!
@felixleong61
3 жыл бұрын
What's the title of the music? It sounds like supreme commander but I still can't find it lol
@FirstPassOfficial
3 жыл бұрын
kzitem.info/news/bejne/xISK14uvqH-Igpw
@felixleong61
3 жыл бұрын
@@FirstPassOfficial Thanks a lot First- Pass!🙂
@soullegend8169
5 жыл бұрын
You should do the TARDIS
@FirstPassOfficial
5 жыл бұрын
Maybe a combat Tardis? 🤔
@auxencefromont1989
4 жыл бұрын
mars would be the perfect suspect....
@kerbodynamicx472
3 жыл бұрын
Poor Donnager, it is not ready for worthy opponents
@Matt-yg8ub
3 жыл бұрын
Your scenario is highly unlikely. You placed WAY to much weight on the Truman class having slightly fewer PDCs than the Donnager and no weight at all on the legendary performance of the UNN defenses meaning the Truman class could wether even the largest missile barrages with ease. You also confused size with effectiveness. The Donnager had larger rail guns...who cares? The Truman’s slightly smaller ones are every bit as capable of killing a frigate and even more effective for being smaller, more maneuverable, less energy intensive to operate and carrying a higher rate of fire. The UNN is nowhere near as arrogant as the MCRN, Souther is NOT Yao, he’s a brilliant tactician and picking up survivors of what appears to be a Martian attack…and then being approached by stealth ships…. Would definitely put him on high alert that this is a competent threat. He’s also not looking to start a war with Mars and would probably let the other side fire first, otherwise there’s always the “fire a warning shot” to draw a line in the sand and make intentions clear. If the Protogen fleet fire on the AK…Souther is going to bury them in missiles and rail gun rounds and kill half of them before they ever get into range to reveal their secret rail guns. It’s a trade off, we the audience and by extension the commander of the vessel, WANT to know who destroyed the Canterbury… but unlike Yao who was arrogant enough to think she could just fire a few missiles to disable whoever it was and then take prisoners, Souther knows he has to survive the battle first…and he knows they aren’t going to make it easy for him. CAPTAIN Yao never stopped to question why anyone would feel confident facing off against the Martian Flagship… ADMIRAL Souther on the other hand has the wisdom and experience to question why an apparent Martian force is attempting to start a war with Earth, and he’s expecting a hard fight.
Пікірлер: 77