Steve what do you think this comparison would mean for the A7r4 (61 mgpxl) vs A6600 (24 mgpxl) ?
@safeharbor7
8 жыл бұрын
Great video Steve... I always learn something from you, thanks. Always look forward to your videos. Thumbs up...
@StephanEilert
8 жыл бұрын
Great video, as always. You and Tony northrup are the best youtubers when talking about technical stuff (and other things as well). Concise, simple and fast! Do more videos, sir haha. I wish I could get money with wildlife photography, here in Brazil we have so much potential, but not sure who will pay =/ :D Thanks a lot.
@DennisTurbay
8 жыл бұрын
My 2 favorite channels too!
@Jones12ax7
8 жыл бұрын
Nice to see another Brazilian that like both these channels too!
@klackon1
8 жыл бұрын
Another very enjoyable video Steve; thanks a lot. I am perfectly happy with the results from my D500 and EM1's and have no requirement for a FF camera.
@houganghomme
8 жыл бұрын
That Book of his : Great Buy.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
Thanks!!
@sharonleibel
7 жыл бұрын
Bought it yesterday evening. Couldn't stop reading it (And jumping to change settings on my 2 bodies in the process... Every 3-4 minutes). Eventually, I wend to bed at 4am... :) Great book!
@SMGJohn
Ай бұрын
Interesting that we now have 60 megapixel sensors, but also Fujifilm has 40.1 megapixel APS-C sensor, even micro 4/3 are 25.6 megapixels now LOL
@johnmontana18
3 жыл бұрын
There is a disadvantage for the crop camera. If shooting a flying bird of other moving animal you might miss it as it can more easily go out of the frame. With full frame you probably still have many of those shots with a wing or such remaining in the frame. Or you get too tight and have no space to include more environment. My D850 gives me a lot of room to capture the special shot.
@sctm81
6 жыл бұрын
But wouldn't you rather have a cleaner slightly lower res than a slightly higher res with much more noise?
@woodygreen6826
8 жыл бұрын
Hi Steve, As always, this was a great video. I have tried to explain this point to people, but have never had a clear resource to point them to in order to explain it. THANKS for taking the time to do this. I will certainly share this video with my fellow photographers.
@WolfFeX
6 жыл бұрын
Can you do this video with a D850 and a D500?
@backcountrygallery
6 жыл бұрын
I might - but as I mention in the video, as the pixel density of the FX camera goes higher, the results are closer. With the D850 and D500, there's virtually no difference.
@EvulDali
8 жыл бұрын
Objective and to the point video!
@pgulysse1
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks. This great video probably needs an update. With the recent releases of the A1, A7R4, R5, Z9, and things or sensor/processor technologies getting better and better, wondering if shooting FF and crop when editing, or shot in crop mode, are not making users demands for more advanced APSC bodies irrelevant. I am seeing people asking if Canon will drop the EF-M system to introduce RF APSC bodies (RF APSC "smaller" bodies with huge FF RF Lenses?). Those high FF MP sensors are making the need to have advanced APSC bodies like D500 or EOS 7D mirroless version, a bit irrelevant. I think makers like Canon, Nikon Sony are pushing FF, and only Fuji will remain the main APSC actor, the only one later probably..
@강민기-q6q
4 жыл бұрын
This isn’t true. For the results the tests are not false. D500 vs croped image from full frame, D500 wins. But the point is pixel density. His theory is based on this, more density on sensor=more resolution. This isn’t true. For the right test we have to compare with equivalent lenses on each bodies. And when we have exactly same images with different focal length to equivalent crop and FF, the density means nothing. Density isn’t related with resolution on sensors. Because the picture is same. For example let’s compare two different size of books. One is extremely small the other is much bigger but these are same books except size difference. When we look a random page no matter the small one is small the amount of letters and paragraphs are exactly same with big one. It’s just about the amount of light or dynamic range things. Not about resolution. Due to his wrong theory people get confused. 20mp crop body has same resolution with full frame 50mp camera?! No way. If so manufacturers would have made 5~8mp crop bodies instead of 20mp. He should make another video when he realize he is wrong Going back to the topic crop body image vs cropped image from FF, when using same lens, image from crop body is better for sure. It could be similar with cropped one from 50ish mp FF and 20mp image from crop body.
@ellbertdinoy
6 жыл бұрын
i had better result on my 5d4 30mp vs my 7d mkii 20mp using a tamron 150-600 both @600mm taking picture of saturn two days ago with the strawberry moon.. 7dmkii had a better total zoom of 960mm and was not able to get saturns rings vs on my 5d4s total zoom of only 600mm and cropped the image
@scallen3841
5 жыл бұрын
Wow made simple to understand , with no BS like others
@StrangeTu
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much - my favorite helpful channel as a beginner!
@mgk2
8 жыл бұрын
FF sensor might not have the "special pixels" yes, but don't forget the better colour reproduction/tonality and dynamic range. Guess you being a wildlife shooter don't care about those as much, but to a landscape photographer it's very relevant and most will certainly favors a ff setup.
@StephanEilert
8 жыл бұрын
of course, but hes a wildlife photographer, therefore hes focusing on his field. FF all the way, unless you need to crop :D
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
I actually do both landscape and wildlife and always use a FF camera for landscape. That said, keep in mind that when you crop a full frame camera, it tends to lose a lot of those traits. As the video shows, cropping virtually eliminates the noise advantage. As for dynamic range, a cropped D810 has LESS dynamic range the the D500 or a D7200. See for yourself: www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Nikon%20D500,Nikon%20D810(DX)
@mgk2
8 жыл бұрын
Interesting. I assume "cropped D810" as in shooting in APS-C mode. How does the DR differs if you crop in post? Does DR suffers the same as shooting in camera crop mode?
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
First off, sorry if that link was troublesome - the YT comments section isn't linking it right for some reason. My admittedly vague understanding if this. Dynamic range is directly tied into the noise floor of the image - basically there is an "acceptable" limit for noise when we look at dynamic range. As you know, if you crop a full frame image, you magnify the noise. Magnifying the noise increases the noise floor and reduces the dynamic range. So, if you had an image that used the entire frame with some dark shadows, the size of the noise in those shadows would be relatively small and acceptable when you tried to lift them. However, step back and shoot the same image in crop mode and the pixels are relatively larger since you have the same field of view in a smaller area of the sensor - and the noise looks worse since it's now magnified as well. Hope that makes sense :)
@slsanchez64
8 жыл бұрын
Hi Steve. Great Video. I have been thinking about a similar question related to my Nikon D610. It has a option to switch between FX and DX modes. So, why I would ever use the DX mode? The only reason I can think of is if I needed to use the image without any Post Processing. It seems like same light is captured in the same pixels in either mode. What do you think? Thanks
@HaydenToltzmann
8 жыл бұрын
What was it like being in journey? 😂
@borlach321
4 жыл бұрын
If you are an amateur and not yet great at composition or framing your shot, should you stick with a crop camera?
@WhittyPics
7 жыл бұрын
You are comparing apples to oranges. DX will give you more reach for subjects you can't get that close to like birds. D500 will give me 20 megapixels on the bird where if I use a D800 and crop it I am only get about 15 or 16 on the bird unless I carry a lot heavier glass to make up for the crop sensor. If I don't need the reach I will grab the full frame. If I do need the reach or have the need for more FPS I will use the crop D500. I think both cameras have their uses and advantages/disadvantages depending on the situation.
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
Yes I am comparing apples to oranges - that's the point of the video. Also, did you watch it? You and I have come to the same conclusions.
@WhittyPics
7 жыл бұрын
I watched it. Hard to beat a D800 for image quality.
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
No doubt at all. Full frame is always the better choice unless you start cropping heavily, that's when you have to start considering DX cameras that are of higher pixel density. Like I say, we agree.
@WhittyPics
7 жыл бұрын
Enjoy your videos.
@ozrenbalic6051
7 жыл бұрын
There is no need to "carry a lot heavier glass to make up for the crop sensor". Equivalent glass doesn't have to be a lot heavier, and in some cases might actually be lighter. Don't forget that crop factor needs to be applied to both focal length and f-stop, so f/2.8 on crop sized sensor is equivalent to f/4.2 on FF.
@DennisTurbay
8 жыл бұрын
Thanks, this was exactly what I wanted to ask you)))
@onlyonecannoli3952
3 жыл бұрын
Steve, glad you found life after Journey!
@gamwpanagia
8 жыл бұрын
D500 all day cause it's cheaper lol :p
@yokoreia
8 жыл бұрын
Did you reacquire 200-500 f/5.6 you use on this video, I was tossed between that lens and your 300 f4 with 1.4 TC, got the former after testing 1.4TC, you make good, cut to chase video.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
I'm trying it for the third time. I'm actually trying to test it on a trip now - I think I may finally have a good copy. The next video will likely be a review and comparison between the 200-500 and the 300 PF.
@AprilClayton
Жыл бұрын
I really appreciate this test.
@bhuboydeleon3699
7 жыл бұрын
Hi, now that d850 is announced, do you think the combo d500/d810 is still a good choice or a d850 is better. I have a d500 and was planning to buy d810, to have similar combo as yours, now d850 is announced, is it better to sell my d500 and get it, or the combo is good too. Thanks
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
IMO, the D850 does everything the D500 and D810 can do - only better.
@voyageruno8938
6 жыл бұрын
Even if the pixel density after cropping against the d500 still isn't there? How come?
@fmls8266
6 жыл бұрын
d850 is 19.4 Megapixel cropped, pretty close to the d500 20.9
@Postoasted
8 жыл бұрын
Very informative, thanks.
@adamturner9061
Жыл бұрын
Hi Steve. Wouldn't it be better to just use a 1.4tc on the full frame to get the crop factor + 45mp instead of 24mp of the crop sensor?
@backcountrygallery
Жыл бұрын
That's how I would do it today. However, this was a 2016 video and we didn't have 45 MP+ back then :)
@jdsmphotography2144
4 жыл бұрын
Great review, can you please repeat the comparison D500 vs D850 (foucing on the focus point spreadability)
@stevewaycott
8 жыл бұрын
Steve, I notice a couple shots in the video of you using a Nikkor 200-500mm f/5.6E. Is there maybe a video coming up discussing/reviewing/comparing that lens? Particularly with the D500.
@zorank1791
4 жыл бұрын
but how much is the difference if you scale to size for web publishing (2-4 Mpx) or small prints (6-8 Mpx)? I believe it is less evident difference in sharpness.
@TheBluesine
6 жыл бұрын
With the exception of long distance shooting for wildlife and possibly the odd sport pic, I don't get it why photographers should need too crop.... If your a good photographer you should be using what you've learnt and frame your shots correctly...!! THEN a good full frame camera wins hands down, all the time...
@spritual_enlightenment
7 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Didn't expect D500 files would be this good. It is a wake up call. Many thank you.
@Ryomichi
6 жыл бұрын
This video need an update. Is it still true now when full frame sensor resolution can range from 30 to 40 megapixel, and when cropped to apsc size can get close to 20 megapixel.
@TheCaro2
8 жыл бұрын
In the real world, photographers tend to frame their pictures as well as they can while shooting. This means, that when you use 50mm at crop, you are actually shooting with 85mm with kino. The end result is, that kino really has much more details, cleaner image at higher ISO's etc..
@brotherdom1
6 жыл бұрын
Boy you cover alot in a vid Moral of the story ? Stay alert Thanks ,Im going to reccomend you to the camera club ,well nikon members only lets keep this secret from the canon guys and guirls
@jameslarsen9814
8 жыл бұрын
Great video!! I went with a Crop body more for the sake of saved money. I'm also quite enjoying your book, very very good job, its helping me out a lot. I'm 15, so these tips are extremely helpful. The "lunch money" for buying it was completely worth it!! :)
@getzapped4453
6 жыл бұрын
Outstanding ,Thanks for the vid Steve. I only wish I would have found this earlier to save from all the wasted web searches and page reading just to still only get part of the picture. I have one question, about the DX pixel density technique issues, you mentioned, but in a sports shooting situation,, would it be correct to say given same lens, speed and apt. settings the FF is easier to capture a sharp image because of less pixel density? I thought I read some where you were needing to run high S speeds with the D500 to get sharp results, where for sports its most likely around 1,000 on a monopod....Thx again for the vid.
@parthtewari1862
6 жыл бұрын
hi can you please tell me which camera is best and why? nikon d7500 or d750? thanks
@52701970
7 жыл бұрын
without even watching the entire video, the crop camera is better because of the pixel density.
@itsjim2875
3 жыл бұрын
Enlightening & very helpful - thanks, Steve!
@Thomasjcolbert82
4 жыл бұрын
I have a question. I have a EOSR and 7DMKII. I feel if I shoot the EOSR in crop mode. The photos are better than the 7DMKII. Or if I shoot full frame and crop, it’s better, more contrast. Is it because it’s much newer? The 7DMKII is now 6 years old I think.
@backcountrygallery
4 жыл бұрын
I'd guess that it's because of how much newer the EOSR is compared to the 7DII. I'd think something like a 90D would be a better comparison. Much closer to the same gen.
@Thomasjcolbert82
4 жыл бұрын
Steve Perry I appreciate the reply! Ok, so, maybe it’s time to sell this 7D then while it’s still relevant. I’m waiting to get the R5, so we’ll see what happens. There was mention of a 7D3 on canon rumors I think.
@parthapaul4319
5 жыл бұрын
Hai steve i m in india. Your video and teaching method is awesome. i am regularly watching those video. Plz steve i need some help from u for easing my brain. I m totally confused for getting a good quality dslr for my next wildlife photography trip between d7200 and d7500. i've a nikon afs200-500 lense. I already went through your review on d7500 was fantastic. But if u did me a favour a little bit,it would be better. 1st its (d7500 vs d7200) picture quality,clarity,sharpness is far better then d7200? 24 megapixel vs 21 megapixel,,picture sharpness,clarity or density after croping,brightness with d7500? 2nd how far can i go d7500 iso management? 3rd is it well suited with 200-500 lense and this lense with d7200 is well suited too? Which one would u like i to buy or which one is your favourite? I know U knows d7200 pics quality, image sharpness etc very well.u also used d7500. So plz sir give me your valuable decission to me on that matter. Till then i m keeningly waiting your reply. Have a good day.
@backcountrygallery
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the kid words. I actually do cover most of the questions you have in the D7500 review, but to put it simply, I'd rather be out shooting with the D7500 for what I do (wildlife) that the D7200. Sensor performance is like the D500 (ISO etc) as is quality. Both the D7500 and D7200 are well suited to the 200-500, so no worries there. Hope that helps :)
@parthapaul4319
5 жыл бұрын
@@backcountrygallery thank u sir.
@joeschmitt5704
8 жыл бұрын
Another excellent video! I bought your book about shooting wildlife and found it to be informative, interesting, but most important, useful. Well worth the purchase. Thanks Steve for producing these videos. Joe
@jerrypoller6902
8 жыл бұрын
For me, this proves the desirability of cropping in the camera when the shot is taken. I tend to shoot wider than necessary with my D610 and then sometimes have to crop significantly to get the picture I want. After seeing this vid, I'll be trying to get tighter with my shots to minimize the cropping in PP. Thanks for the great vid.
@JBSwanstrom
8 жыл бұрын
Thank you for cutting through all the crap that is spread by the full frame snobs.
@jonthornton8714
8 жыл бұрын
You really are very good at explaining things. Thanks.
@smooth6718
4 жыл бұрын
As usual... you're explanation, especially when you include the animation, charts, etc., is the best! I own a D500 and a D750, and I was trying to capture a bird in the water with my 750. I normally use my 500 for birds, but I had inadvertently picked up the wrong bag. Almost immediately, I noticed the black rectangle in the viewfinder. I knew what it was, but I had no idea why it was showing up. When I returned home, I immediately went to KZitem for help. (Forgetabout the manual!) I found at least four instructional videos, and as usual, yours was above and away all the others. I totally understood the subject now; however, I still have no clue as to why my 750 was on the crop setting. You showed clearly that the crop settings can't be changed in one easy step. Just an FYI, in comparing all the other videos with yours, you talk at light speed, so I have to pause the video, write down what you have just said, then hit play. When the subject is about something I have never heard before, I have to stop even more frequently. But that's okay, because 1) your video is "fully packed" - probably 3X all others combined, and 2) having to pause and write is a small price to pay for a thorough. Many thanks, Steve. Keep on keeping on.
@Kikotronik
6 жыл бұрын
So I should not upgrade from d7200 to d750?
@Bullittphotography
7 жыл бұрын
Excellent! Just became more certain that I will switch from D7000 to D500 :-)
@NJA2k8
8 жыл бұрын
Now getting a D500. I'm sold
@Mitch.Wasserman
8 жыл бұрын
You won't be sorry. Loved my D7100 but love the D500 even more.
@chengteh
8 жыл бұрын
I picked up a D500 a few weeks ago! It's amazing, you'll love it!
@valerianosartoflight5712
8 жыл бұрын
Thanks realy good information to keep in mind depening on what your shoting and if you need to crop (=
@PhotographyByLenny
8 жыл бұрын
Wow! Thanks for the comparison. Great information.
@badr_marfou
7 жыл бұрын
But full frame with high resolution will give you more flexible area to crop into, while cropped body will force you to be more precise at the time you shoot, which will not be always easy
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
It will - and if it's the same pixel density, it's a win all the way around. Where the crop camera comes into its own is when it's a higher pixel density than the full frame camera (like a D500 vs D5).
@rickthiel31
7 жыл бұрын
Outstanding Video...Thank You Sir
@Mitch.Wasserman
8 жыл бұрын
Great video full of useful information once again. Plus, I own the D500 so love hearing the positive info.
@zahirjlg
3 жыл бұрын
Excellent. Brutally simple and clear.
@michaldziekonski3162
2 жыл бұрын
You the Man!
@BigBoss-gb4cx
4 жыл бұрын
APSC >>> FF
@ScaRxFaceLP
8 жыл бұрын
Soooo, the only point this video delivers is, that for wildlife or anything telephoto based, you should take a crop camera if a ff body has not enough zoom.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
LOL - yup, pretty much! You'd be surprised how often I see this and get questions though.
@noenken
8 жыл бұрын
Thanks for saving eight minutes of my life.
@ScaRxFaceLP
8 жыл бұрын
yeahh... tought there is maybe something interesting, but nope
@woodygreen6826
8 жыл бұрын
Christian and Goggi, there's no reason to be impolite. This has been an ongoing debate for a long time, and Steve's clear explanation and test shots clear things up for people who were unsure how a crop body could outperform a full frame in certain situations.
@keithdunnivan8099
6 жыл бұрын
Imagine the time he puts into making theses videos for people that need them. Your comment was inconsiderate.
@thomaseriksson6256
Жыл бұрын
Good info
@inkedcrows
8 жыл бұрын
I always learn so much from your videos Steve and this one was no different. Wish you had an on line video teaching course on photography, I would sign up in a second. Thanks again for taking the time to make this video for us.
@DavidAnderson-vt8iq
8 жыл бұрын
Very cool comparison - thanks for the video.
@nandi123
8 жыл бұрын
Excellent demonstration and video. Thanks Steve!
@poeticflairphotography7087
7 жыл бұрын
Hello Steve. Great work you are doing here. What's your take on using a 1.4 XTC with a cropped nikon body say D7100. Working with 200-500. I understand the lense become F8 and It will still autofocus. Any other thoughts? Thanks
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
The 200-500 seems to take a 1.4TC really well. From an optical standpoint, it's pretty good. However, it will slow down focus and like you say, it's an F8...
@blessedvillain
8 жыл бұрын
Sir, this is a great video! You are very good in explaining things. Thank you for sharing!
@simonwinn-smith4972
5 жыл бұрын
Tremendously informative, thanks!
@alifonso1981
5 жыл бұрын
Hi, Mr. Perry.. I have a full frame camera and in the settings it gives me the option to switch from full into 1:1; 16:3 etc. What if I switch from full into 1:1 or something else rather than full? Would that affect my image? Thank you in advance.
@backcountrygallery
5 жыл бұрын
See this article - backcountrygallery.com/the-cropping-epidemic/
@jemdost6724
6 жыл бұрын
What do you think about if I were to simply choose to put my Sony A7rii setting to APS-C mode which crops in body before taking the picture. Do you think this will be just as good as using a cropped sensor camera? My main goal is to be able to shoot the moon as detailed as possible with my 70-200 then use crop mode and then use 'clear image zoom' function in my sony that let's me zoom 2x in body. I just literally thought of this so I'll be testing myself but it will be good to know your thoughts before I get to try if you have any. Cheers!
@backcountrygallery
6 жыл бұрын
Cropping in camera is the same as cropping in post. No image quality advantage one way or the other.
@psyamok3735
6 жыл бұрын
great info! thumbs up!
@TheMetroPhotographer
5 жыл бұрын
Great video! Clear and straight to the point!
@wgdrumline
7 жыл бұрын
I wish you said something about using a full frame like my D810 in crop mode.
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
It's the same as what's shown in the video. Crop mode in the camera is exactly the same as cropping on the computer (assuming you're cropping to the same pixel dimensions). Makes no difference at all.
@6-Iron
5 жыл бұрын
Wait a minute - Why wouldn’t you just frame the shot in such a way that it minimizes the need for cropping? Sensor size has very little to do with composition.
@backcountrygallery
5 жыл бұрын
Ideally you would - that's how I try to work. However, there are times you simply can't get close enough to fill the frame so then you have to make some choices.
@RonaldvanDuijkeren
6 жыл бұрын
Great video and well explained.
@RobertKingofMaine
8 жыл бұрын
Very good job Steve :) I learned from that and now know.
@NildoScoop
7 жыл бұрын
Very good and clear review.
@solarsynapse
7 жыл бұрын
I have a stupid question. Are the crop cameras the same 3:2 ratio as the full frame?
@IanWilkinson
7 жыл бұрын
Yes! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format
@allabouthim03
8 жыл бұрын
some people still want get it.
@michaelcampbell5567
8 жыл бұрын
So you're saying unless you are close enough to not have to crop, the D500 is better? What about the FF is better under any circumstance nonsense?
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
That's sort of what I'm saying, but not quite. If you have to crop FF to the same size as a DX / APS-C body, then you're better off with the DX / APS-C body IF they are of higher pixel density then the FF camera (which is almost always the case). If you don't need a heavy crop on a FF camera, then it's tricker. For example, if I only need to crop my D810 to the 1.2X area, then I'd have (roughly) the same number of total pixels between the D810 and the D500, so no difference. Less crop than that would favor the D810, more crop would favor the D500. As a very general guideline, if the crop body is going to have significantly more pixels than the full frame body after cropping, then go with the crop camera. Of course, in the real world you'll have to make the best call you can since from moment to moment one camera may be better than the other. Also, no FF is not always better - if it were, these tests would have shown it :)
@michaelcampbell5567
8 жыл бұрын
I'm glad to see you aren't on the koolaid.
@johnlondon7620
8 жыл бұрын
Use a D500 for critter and fast action subjects/sports and the D800E/D810 for portrait's and landscape.
@ozrenbalic6051
8 жыл бұрын
Nobody sensible says that full frame is better when you crop it to match DX's FOV. When you are reach limited and use only cropped portion of the frame there are no IQ advantages to full frame, it acts as a crop sensor in every way (noise, details, DOF control). But remember that this behavior does not stop at DX sensor, superzoom with fixed lens and small sensor will beat D500 if you are reach limited and have to crop D500 enough. I will say that there is one advantage to cropping FF though, you can crop to a nicer composition in post. With DX you are stuck with what you have composed on the spot, and when shooting fast action usually there's isn't enough time to carefully compose.
@TheExtraTerrestrial
7 жыл бұрын
How is the D500 showing less noise at ISO 6400 than the D810? That doesn't seem right to me. While the high-ISO performance on the D500 is supposedly pretty good, I don't see how it's going to beat a full frame sensor. I compared my D7200 to my D750, and looked at 100% crops at ISO 3200. I preferred the D750 shot in some cases. It looked to have less noise, but was also blurrier. Now at ISO 100 (or reasonably low values), I agree that the DX cameras give more detail when cropped. Anyway, thanks for the comparison.
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
It because of the crop and normalization of the D500 file against the cropped D810 file. Had both been shot full frame (no cropping the D810) the D810 would have easily won.
@TheExtraTerrestrial
7 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Steve. After doing more research, I see that in many cases, the high ISO noise performance on the D810 isn't so hot. In fact, the D500 looks pretty comparable to it, which is actually amazing considering it's only DX. I guess I am spoiled by my D750 which does an amazing job with noise. Anyway, decided to give the D500 a try since I do shoot a lot of wildlife. Even on DX, I have to crop very often, so that pretty much negates the FF advantage.
@sghound
6 жыл бұрын
sorted. thx for this steve!
@mttudotcom
6 жыл бұрын
Thank you - that fills in a lot of gaps!
@nevakee716
8 жыл бұрын
D5 has an AA filter that reduce sharpnes, so the d500 should be sharper than d5 with the same equivalent lens. Really hope a 80Mpix d820 announce at photokina
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
Yup, in my experience the AA filter does make a small difference in sharpness in favor of the D500 (but not enough to really worry about)
@nevakee716
8 жыл бұрын
+Steve Perry i think it can also be compensate by the fact we use ff lens on the d500.
@riotrob
8 жыл бұрын
Would like to see crop vs FF+1.4tc.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
Stay tuned, it's coming :)
@shanmugasundaram6625
8 жыл бұрын
The wild card here is the d500 excellent sensor
@BubuSnow93
7 жыл бұрын
Shanmuga Sundaram not really, you would get almost identical results with something like a D7200. The whole point of the video of that the only reason Ff beat APS-c is the bigger size, but if you crop (and doing so you remove the advantage) they perform the same if not worse, it's really not a matter of cameras
@erikvdlooy6515
4 жыл бұрын
Hi Steve; what a great explanation , thank you very much!! It would be very interesting to see how the D500 compares with cropping images from a D850. Would the D850 win this test from the D500? I would be very interested to see what your thought is about this... (I'm thinking about upgrading from my D750 to a D850... OR.... buy an extra D500 next to my D750). Of course, this is for wildlife/bird shooting... what do you think would win? thanks for thinking along!
@backcountrygallery
4 жыл бұрын
I checked that with the D850 review - the D850 in DX mode is virtually identical to the D500. In fact, I don't use a D500 anymore - the D850 has one built in :)
@erikvdlooy6515
4 жыл бұрын
@@backcountrygallery Thanks for your reply! Based on your review (crop vs cropping full frame) I thought in the same theory you are mentioning! I still need to view your D850 review...which I will do in a minute....I hope that one is good as well because I bought myself de D850 today :-) Thanks for helping out!
@Audimann
2 жыл бұрын
@@backcountrygallery Well the D850 in dx mode gives 19.8 MP so nearly a D500. But I still use both. D500 is still a great machine!
@danneukirch4486
7 жыл бұрын
Heres a thought, taking this further, could you use the same logic to demonstrate that a MFT camera such as the Olympus Em10 mii (say with the 300 f4) will beat a DX/1.5 crop camera?? Would be interesting to see a comparison. Or is 1.5 crop the 'goldilocks' sensor size for wildlife? What do you think Steve?
@danneukirch4486
7 жыл бұрын
Loving your videos. Just bought your ebook :)
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
Sorry for the delay in responding. Honestly, I'm not sure where this actually starts to break down, but I suspect that an M4/3 camera will hold up better (once normalized) than a DX cropped to the same size.
@danneukirch4486
7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the reply, Steve.
@RSP13
6 жыл бұрын
Brilliant
@wouterj.vanduin8706
8 жыл бұрын
For a real conclusion one issue should not have been ignored here. D500 does not have an AA-filter, D5 does, so that could have a very great influence on the sharpness.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
The thing is, every full frame Nikon in the 20~24MP range (and I think Canon for that matter) have an AA filter, so there's no way to test without on. That, and in the real world that AA filter is always there, so these results are consistent with what you'd get if you were out shooting these two cameras. Also, keep in mind that the "AA-less" D810 still couldn't quite beat the D500 either.
@wouterj.vanduin8706
8 жыл бұрын
I understand that and I agree with it, though not completely. For sharpness more facts are important. Not only the number of available pixels is important, but also the pixels-density of the sensor. That's why normally a fullframe sensor is better, simply because it usually has a lower pixel-density. Another important factor somehow ignored in the test is that an FX lens used on a DX camera always makes use of the best (centre) part of the lens.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
Keep in mind this wasn't an FX Vs. DX comparison. In my book, FX always wins given equal field of view. However, the point of this video was that when you need to heavily crop your FX sensor then the crop camera is a better choice. As for lenses, nearly all wildlife photography is done on a DX camera is done with FX lenses, so again, these results reflect what you would see in the real world. You don't have to like the results, but they are what they are.
@brucehawick
8 жыл бұрын
This was a really worthwhile video, and demystifies something that I've been struggling over for a while now. Thanks very much!
@maxfactor4209
7 жыл бұрын
the question is how much light do u have? i believe in a relatively dark scene the 9 mp come from ff has better details than 20mp crop
@backcountrygallery
7 жыл бұрын
Check out the link to the website. I did one of the tests at ISO 6400 and while there is less noise in the 9MP file, the 21MP file kills it in detail; I'd take that one anytime.
@rodrigomalutta
7 жыл бұрын
Great Steve
@LeonardoValerianoMarco
6 жыл бұрын
Great video indeed! But there is another fact that need to be payed attention to: also the aperture needs to be multiply. So you were testing a 300 f4 lens with a 450 f6 on dx. That's I think the more important thing, because it means you cannot have on a dx a real f4 blur. Instead cropping a fx the blur will remain the same! At the end my thinking is: more pixel density = more definition (no matter dx or fx, but the firsts usually have more compacted sensors), fx corps give prettier images or atleast most versatility and free of choice. What you think? Thank you for your video and your guides, amazing!
@backcountrygallery
6 жыл бұрын
A couple of thoughts :) First, yes, you are correct about the effective aperture / DoF (however, note that the exposure doesn't change - I know you didn't mention it, but I don't want anyone else getting confused if they read this). However, the DoF change is ONLY if you are the same distance as you would be with an 450mm FX lens on an FX camera (i.e shooting a 300mm on DX side by side with a 450mm on FX). If you are using a 300mm on an FX camera and a DX camera side by side, you'd find the DoF is the same (just more crop on the DX camera). I do disagree that FX crops are prettier than shooting at DX. If I can get more pixel density with DX, I'll shoot it rather than crop a lower pixel density FX sensor.
@LeonardoValerianoMarco
6 жыл бұрын
But ofcourse! I haven't thought that probably if someone will shoot with a dx or fx, the subject will be the same size and that means that in one case will be farther and then... With the same dof. For the prettier I was meaning that having a more blurred background it would lead in nicer images, but the whole idea was based on a wrong thought, so you are right again! :) Thank you so much for take your time and answer me, I really appreciate. Keep your work on, is really great!
@mitali6778
8 жыл бұрын
Hi Steve, great video! Enjoyed the book as well. What do you think of DxOMark's Perceptual Megapixels? With the same lens, they show a dramatic change when going from a Fx to Dx - often a 50% reduction. Realize you are doing a cropped Fx comparison in this video but their data is pretty persuasive and discourages me from going to Dx bc I can't predict well how much crop I'll need (I prefer larger animals, it would be different if birding) Thanks, look fwd to your thoughts on DxO
@pipari21
8 жыл бұрын
If I understand correctly the DxOMark's Perceptual Megapixels are calculated and not based on any real observation of images like this video does. So I would take them with a grain of salt.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
Actually, I haven't really looked at it that hard - DxO kind of turns me off with their camera scoring. They say one thing but the real world says another, so I haven't spent too much time on them. All I know are the results I see in my images. This video was based on what I've been doing in the field for years and it pans out. If you want more detail, it's better to use a crop camera than to crop a full frame camera to the same FOV. I believe what I see :) That said, keep in mind that the full frame advantages are real and I try to shoot full frame whenever I can. I like the crop camera for when I need more reach or when I need to go light, but otherwise I'll prefer full frame. Like you say, it's sometimes hard to predict if you'll need to crop or not, so that has to play in as well (I've been known to start with a crop body and keep an FX body in a backpack if I get close enough to use it :)
@tzewengfoong9591
8 жыл бұрын
DXO's PMP confuses lots of people :-) However, its a nice value that incorporates several factors that are of interest to photographers. 1) the sensor MP actual Output (vs specified) and 2) the Lense base resolution (for zooms at the sharpest focal length). [ The critics that say its "calculated" thus irrelevant is like saying calculating wing lift is irrelevant to flight of planes. Just because you cant do the calculations does not mean its of no value(S shaped wing ? LOL) ] Note: the relevance of the 2 factors above will be different for different use cases. eg: a super zoom like the 18-200 on a D7000@18mmF8(very good) vs D7200@135mmF5(very bad). These 2 scenarios cannot be inferred from the DXO PMP values, but you can get that info if you look it up on their other detailed graphics. You just need to know what to look for and where. Note that my example of a super zoom, which has very varied IQ as you zoom, will result in less relevance of the PMP compared to a 50 mm F1.4 Prime, which will have a much more significant PMP value(although still use case dependent). Hope I didn't confuse you more ..
@pipari21
8 жыл бұрын
Well PMP is at least misleading concept to those who don't know what is it based on or don't have the interest to find out. Like this video shows, you get more detail out of crop sensor than FF cropped to same size if the pixel count is the same, no matter what calculations you make. You can calculate complicated things in many ways and make something look better compared to other things by changing the variables you are calculating. Thats why I trust measurements more than calculations.
@ozrenbalic6051
8 жыл бұрын
P-MP difference between FF and DX is real and can be confirmed by visual inspection. FF will almost always beat DX sharpness wise, even if the sensor resolution is the same. For people who prefer visual comparison see this: www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=963&Sample=0&FLI=3&API=0&LensComp=687&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=3&APIComp=0 Same resolution FF and APS-C camera, same lens, FF is a lot sharper everywhere, including in the corners. And if we compare equivalent focal lengths and equivalent apertures and close lens on FF down the difference will be even greater. But please note this has nothing to do with comparison performed in this video. To get this advantage you have to fill entire sensor with the desired frame, which means using a longer focal length or moving closer to the subject when using FF. If you are only using aps-c portion of the sensor and throwing the rest away there is no advantage in sharpness (or in DOF control, lower noise, dynamic range) to full frame. Same thing applies if you have to crop DX sensor to match FOV of an even smaller sensor.
@ulrichlambert3879
8 жыл бұрын
at least some clever stuff ! But to be 100% accurate you should probably mention that the lens you are using is a high quality prime. With a lesser quality lens you would probably reach a limit where the lens would not be capable to resolve higher pixel density leading to contrary results (i.e sharper results with less pixel density on the sensor)
@hansforsstrom5772
8 жыл бұрын
First of all Steve, a great video as always. I do however agree that glass matters as would distance to the subject, available light, dept of field, risk of shake etc under the conditions where a DX camera actually would be of interest, for instance birds in flight. Personally I get sharper results using my D750 than my D7100 with my Tamron 150-600 even after cropping in post to the same field of view. When taking pictures of a still subject a few yards away I would zoom with my feet to fill the frame instead of cropping and the FF-camera would win every time :-) Don´t you agree?
@nicodimus2222
8 жыл бұрын
I just have to ask...what wildlife allows you to get a few yards away?
@hansforsstrom5772
8 жыл бұрын
Don't know if your just trying to be funny but the pictures used to "prove" that crop is sharper isn't of wildlife but taken of a near flat surface a few yards away. My point is that this comparison therefore dosen't say that much regarding crop versus FF when shooting wildlife because many parameters are left out. Lens resolution for one, that I found being very important for wildlife shots.
@backcountrygallery
8 жыл бұрын
I'm going to reply to all the concerns here at the same time. First off, keep in mind that higher pixel density will never cause you to have a worse photo than lower pixel density, no matter what kind of lens you're using. You never "lose" anything, just in some cases you aren't taking advantage of it. If you take a photo from a high pixel density camera with a poor quality optic and downsize it to the lower pixel density camera, you'll find the higher pixel density camera will never be worse and in most cases - even with a poor optic - will still look better. As for distance, conditions, etc - they make no difference. If you're shooting the same subject at the same distance, and have one image at 9MP and another at 21MP, the 21Mp image will keep more detail. Again, downsize and compare and this will be obvious. In many cases, the complaint with full frame vs crop comes down to technique. If you have poor technique, you'll find an FX camera is much more forgiving and when you look at 100% crops, it will seem like it's doing better. However, if you take your crop image and normalize it to the same size, the crop image will tend to show more detail. Again, I want to emphasize that I'd still rather shoot a full frame camera if I don't' need to crop :) However, if the subject is out at a range where I'd need to crop to DX, I'll slip on my D500 every time and put the D5 back in the bag. Finally, keep in mind that the test in the video was merely to demonstrate what I see in the field all the time. I never get the same level of detail with my DX cropped full frame cameras as I do with my higher res dedicated crop bodies. Never.
@ulrichlambert3879
8 жыл бұрын
I have to disagree. Lenses are the most important part of the equation in your example. Cropping down will never bring back quality. You get confused between resolution and sharpness. I don't care having more resolution if pixels are not sharp because of a too demanding high density sensor.
@bernardosilva7306
7 жыл бұрын
Perfect information dude, thanks!
@joaovtaveira
7 жыл бұрын
Again the same error about the resolution concept.
@joshmdmd
7 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised you didn't mention the versatility of cropping a high resolution sensor. You can change your composition after your shot which is very effective in changing environments (event photography, sports, some wildlife etc..) Great video on the technical end!
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