Unnatural Vegan defended Kalel because it is better to have 4 non-vegan candy bars a year than to completely revert back to an omnivorous diet.
@jasdyer180
5 жыл бұрын
I agree
@marilynhorne4954
3 жыл бұрын
But she later reverted to eating animal products virtually at every meal like most of these people do
@Megleighpd
6 жыл бұрын
My partner is an omnivore and has no intention of ever becoming vegan or vegetarian. However, being in a relationship with me (a vegan) has lead to him DRASTICALLY reducing his intake of animal products. I would venture to guess that somewhere in the range of 70-75% of the food he eats is vegan (the other 20-25% being mainly vegetarian, and the occasional meat). Some weeks this would be closer to 90-95% if I'm cooking or we are traveling together. To me, this is a net good.
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
Megleighpd That is an excellent example of a positive, balanced approach.
@lilvegan
6 жыл бұрын
I'm still so baffled that people dont understand how it looks from the omni perspective to say, I eat buttered popcorn throughout the year, non vegan candy, and buy leather shoes. To the defensive carnist on the fence of veganism, this disproves all accounts of veganism (on the basis of ignorance but what does that matter?) A vegan person with a platform should not be downplaying the use of animal products. Period.
@Megleighpd
6 жыл бұрын
And it baffles me how people who live their lives on the internet don't understand how to interact with people in the real world. You can be very clear with people how you feel about eating and using animal products, while still being practical and **gasp** sympathetic to people's valid concerns and hesitations about adopting a vegan "lifestyle" --as the youtubers say. If by "downplaying" you mean "being a normal person and letting things slide sometimes", then yeah. Don't get it twisted. No "carnist" I hang out with--which, let's be honest, is most of the people I know--does not understand why I am a vegan and what it entails. But it's not my job to "save" them. I lead by example. And you know what? A lot of them use a lot less animal products (and therefore cause less suffering) because of it. If that isn't encouraging to you than I'm sorry that you don't have the same hope as I do for the progress we've made.
@lilvegan
6 жыл бұрын
Megleighpd wow lotta assumptions there, calm down. Go back and read what I said. When an outspoken vegan makes a "I'm not a veGaN AnYm0RE??" Video, it's carnist confirmation bias clickbait. It really shouldn't be defended.
@blackphantasm8359
6 жыл бұрын
Megleighpd How is it not downplaying if she claims you can be vegan and purchase non-vegan things intentionally?
@theseitanrecipe8180
6 жыл бұрын
926 days without the recipe. Yes, he might not know what is Reducetarianism, but you clearly don't know what is Releasethekaleseitarianism.
@n-3262
6 жыл бұрын
The Seitan Recipe its been this long?😂 wtfff
@annathiika5755
6 жыл бұрын
See, now it's a meme and it keeps you coming back haha
@taylornelson6403
6 жыл бұрын
I appreciate this
@demthot2710
6 жыл бұрын
The Seitan Recipe amen
@allysathomas4582
6 жыл бұрын
I appreciate your dedication. Not all heroes wear capes.
@asimplewanderer6101
6 жыл бұрын
Its funny that i am not vegan, but i agree with what (many - not all) vegans fight for. Unnatural vegan i guess, in a way, is that one step closer for me becoming vegan. Its probably because she is very level-headed and doesnt lash out at non-vegans, or any bimbos, for that matter
@saltoftheegg
6 жыл бұрын
A Simple Wanderer same
@dialecticalveganegoist1721
6 жыл бұрын
Wait untill you become vegan. When I still ate meat I didn't understand why vegans acted so harsh to my behaviour, fast forward 1 year after reading some philosophy books and watching askyourself and thinkabouthis, and now I consider myself a militant vegan.
@mariemai2902
6 жыл бұрын
If you interested to move towards veganism. I can recommend to learn about five vegan recipes, and cooperate them in your daily life. for quick cheap ideas I can recommend the channel Caitlin Shoemaker. I also love borrowing vegan cookbooks from the libary. Just looking through them encourages me to try more. Smith and Daughters Vegan eat is my favorite cookbook. incredible delicious foods!
@annathiika5755
6 жыл бұрын
Same. VGs shitty style just convinces me that making the personal moral choice is wasted energy because the support system doesn't exist and has no solidarity. Unnatural Vegan does the opposite and actually makes the case.
@andreaaldrich4046
6 жыл бұрын
A Simple Wanderer Level-headed, unethical, and illogical. Peace.
@AndrewFeinberg1
6 жыл бұрын
I'm in a long-distance relationship with someone who introduced me to veganism almost two years ago. We're 100% vegan when we're physically together, but I tend to deviate away from veganism living here in Japan, where animal products are much harder to avoid, specifically fish. Even though I don't follow a fully vegan diet (I eat fish on occasion), having the "vegan" label hanging over our relationship has forced me to think through my choices much more than if I identified as simply "pescatarian" or "vegetarian". I go out of my way to purchase soy milk instead of cow's milk, and I read the labels to avoid as many dairy and egg products as I can. Reducetarianism is a lived practice for me right now, and it feels like less of a "slide backwards" than I feared it could have been otherwise. It feels manageable for me living in this new country, a place where I have yet to build a cultural and linguistic understanding of what is/isn't vegan around me.
@hugomarquez3189
2 жыл бұрын
Don’t get hang up on the labels, just keep in mind where your North Star is, and then do what you have to do. I was vegan for a while but still ate honey, so I wasn’t technically a vegan; one night at a party I ate cheese so I guess I was no longer a vegan? (even tho I ate vegan ever since). I bought shoes that probably have something non vegan in them, I also bought a computer that’s probably not entirely vegan…at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. We live in a world where meat is eaten every day, and breakfast, lunch and dinner. What matters is that you know what’s right and wrong, and you adapt to your circumstances. You may not always be able to do what’s right but you know what’s right, and you try to do what’s right most of the time, ideally all of the time. Whatever way somebody wants to label you is irrelevant anyway. Getting hang up in all or nothing labels risks you feeling that you can never attain “vegan” status, and going completely off as a consequence. It’s not about that, it’s about reducing animal suffering as much as possible. We won’t be able to eliminate it, so whatever you do to reduce it is welcome, the more the better.
@sustainablysam
8 ай бұрын
Just ask a Japanese person who is vegan?
@barbarakrammer
6 жыл бұрын
Since I’m watching your videos i’ve reduced my meat consumption (i don’t eat meat from monday to friday) and i haven’t increased my egg and dairy consumption to “compensate”! Love your aproach! Sorry for any possible grammar/spelling mistakes - english is not my first language
@57caa
5 жыл бұрын
That's awesome! Update please!!
@sustainablysam
8 ай бұрын
Is the goal to be vegan?
@Strawberrycream100
6 жыл бұрын
The vegan youtube drama has snatched my wig so hard
@HariMundra
6 жыл бұрын
rrrl same my scalp is a mirror
@SolidVermillion
5 жыл бұрын
Saaame
@Sam-xr8ne
3 жыл бұрын
lol
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
I really admire your approach, calm & rational sticking to the facts rather than making personal attacks. Very classy!
@ellen2805
6 жыл бұрын
I was kind of laughing at how angry he was that his video got taken down. "She took it down because I criticized her! She won't debate me because she's a coward!" Uhh...no... It got taken down due to the fact he kept calling people inbred, kept insulting their appearance and intelligence, and kept saying how he wanted to beat or dismember a child... Yep, totally mature criticism tactics. Name calling and threatening kids. KZitem sure should have left it up!
@lunacharles7821
6 жыл бұрын
Ellen Gilbert yeah, I think the examples he made about dismembering children (UV's children) was the main catalyst. I know he was using these examples to make his point, but YT has a right to take it down because of that. YT is a private company that has the right to delete anything. They are not the government. "Freedom of speech" means the government can't arrest you for your beliefs/opinions, but it doesn't exclude you from being kicked out of a private platform for your speech.
@ellen2805
6 жыл бұрын
I agree. I'm sure he'll just say I was too stupid to understand his point, but I actually thought he made a good argument. It's very clear how he places equal value on the life of an animal and the life of a child and when you equate the two and see it from his point of view it made sense. I just found him using someone's actual flesh and blood baby as the example uncalled for and abhorrent. You can insult people all day every day and it'll just make you look like a jerk, but c'mon the kid's done nothing and has no place in your internet arguments.
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
Ellen Gilbert He's not well...
@bruisley709
6 жыл бұрын
Ellen Gilbert Oh poor you did he hurt your feelings? That is the reason why it was taken down because Kalel could not handle the criticism so she took it down and then tried to cover it up by making a fake conversation with someone to make it look like a viewer of hers took it down. She is a lying scumbag and she deserves all the criticism she gets. Just because your offended by words should not mean his video should be taken down because of those words.
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
Bruisley "Kalel took it down"? Do you think she has that much power over what KZitem does? It was taken down due to his hateful delivery.
@frankde58
6 жыл бұрын
Vegans don't eat meat but they do eat eachother
@iheartslug
6 жыл бұрын
The reductionist approach was the approach we took when I worked in HIV prevention. It works. People are more likely to make behavioral change in steps.
@Ethelgiggle
2 жыл бұрын
Just don't have sex duh
@PhoenixRising87
6 жыл бұрын
I don't get why you're the bigger whipping post of the vegan KZitem community compared to Richard. I'd rather have a person calmly talking about vegan issues minus all the woo and pseudoscience so common in most vegan circles as a voice for veganism than a screeching reactionary manchild who blows his top at anyone, vegan or not who looks at him the wrong way (see the tantrums he threw at you, Reg Flowers, and Plant Eats after mildly criticizing him; I'm almost certain that the reason he's not directed any ire at me for criticizing him on my channel is that I'm still a relative nobody with just over 920 subs). Seriously, how do people think that any attention to veganism is better than no attention at all? Have PETA's antics really taught people nothing?
@magnumopus7406
6 жыл бұрын
Not an argument. Swayze misconstrues VG's position and has rather hilariously defended occasional animal product use/consumption in her videos about the Kalel situation.
@bruisley709
6 жыл бұрын
Well when people are as stupid as unnatural vegan is, it is hard to not yell at them. It is like an autistic child at a grocery store sometimes you have to yell at them to get your point across before they do something stupid. Just because she is speaking in a calm voice trying not to offend anybody does not make her points right. She has said Kalel is vegan even though she buys leather boots, has butter popcorn and has 4 candy bars a year which I think is a lie because she lies all the time. But about 3 months ago she was telling vegan cheetah he isn't vegan. Like I said sometimes yelling at retards can help them understand better ;)
@freevoice1817
6 жыл бұрын
She isn't vegan.
@bruisley709
6 жыл бұрын
Freevoice Unnatural Reducetarian
@silverscreen4522
6 жыл бұрын
ElectricMayhem87 (Ashleigh) unnatural vegan doesn't care about veganism
@sophroniel
6 жыл бұрын
I didn't know that there was a name for what I'm trying to do! 😅
@mozartwolfgang4656
4 жыл бұрын
Shit is the word.
@shandiwarren6454
4 жыл бұрын
@@mozartwolfgang4656 So you're agreeing with VeganGains? Or am I misreading your comment?
@chae1557
4 жыл бұрын
Same!!
@lidahall5928
6 жыл бұрын
Does he not realise that most vegans don't become vegans overnight? Also, isn't he inherently guilty of having been a "filthy Carnist" in the past?! Did he wake up one day as a kid and declare he was never consuming any form of animal product whatsoever again - because I find that a little hard to believe... I understand why he accused the woman of hypocrisy but really, she didn't _have_ to come clean about occasionally eating chocolate thereby indicating some form of ethical integrity (one could argue). I also understand that black & white thinking about veganism is incredibly off-putting to non-vegans. As for calling vegetarians sociopathic monsters/pieces of shit - well, I'm not sure what to say about that.
@zidapplip
6 жыл бұрын
Lida Hall He buys a dog from a breeder while claiming he is vegan, yet expects purity from everyone else.
@lidahall5928
6 жыл бұрын
*zidapplip* Yeah, I know. He's guilty of hypocrisy himself - as I'm sure quite a few could _potentially_ be accused of. I got the impression he was really more upset about the fact that Kalel has a bigger following than his, deep down, if I'm honest. I concede that I could be wrong, though, and I'm not afraid to say as much.
@ichabedichlieb4745
6 жыл бұрын
Lida Hall why do you make conclusions without having watched his response videos? I assume you didnt, because already the first point is incorrect. VG didnt call her a bad person or " filthy" for not being fully vegan, he just said that you are not vegan if youre consuming animal products and buying leather shoes. So... Wtf are you talking about? UV actually Said the same thing to vegan cheetah, that buying animal products even if you could avoid it, makes you a non-vegan, whatever else you might be, but not a vegan. And VG pointed that out. Instead of acknowlinging that, you revert to ad hominems how VG is supposedly being a dick to anyone who isnt vegan. Please go watch his videos. If you actually did, your comment allows the assumption that you might be very biased towards uv.
@lidahall5928
6 жыл бұрын
*ichabe dichlieb* Look, I actually think Richard has quite a few redeeming features. Unfortunately, these *really* were not on display in his first video about Kalel. He sounded incredibly angry and made repeated misogynistic slurs. He also *did* refer to vegetarians as "piece of shit people". I said I "got the impression that he was upset about the fact Kalel had a swifter ascent on 'Vegan' KZitem". Yes, I'm probably guilty of paraphrasing, because the first video was taken down and I admit I haven't gotten around to watching the second response - because I've not yet had the time.
@ichabedichlieb4745
6 жыл бұрын
Lida Hall If you didnt have time, maybe dont make conclusions/ comment. I watched both sides and i totally think VG is right here. So you say you know he said vegetarians are piece of shit people ( context missing, VG swears a.lot unfortunately), yet you admit you might be Paraphrasing... Dont know what to make of that tbh... Anyway, it also not much to do with my response/the content of your first comment. I said, you are making a lot of assumptions/ flat out false statements and ad hominems in your comment... And people even liked it. Its kinda typical for UV's comment section. Even though, in VG's there are a lot of morons too, but in a different way... Anyways your response has nothing to do with what ive said.
@BornAScout
3 жыл бұрын
Reducing is the only way I've been able to stay vegetarian for so long, slowly moving towards being vegan. I used to "cheat" more often the first year, but now I don't even see meat as food, it's not appealing at all. Better a lifetime as an imperfect vegetarian/vegan than a small time hyperfixated on perfection.
@runaway817
6 жыл бұрын
What baffles me is that people like this Vegan Gains guy actually think they're doing more good than bad with the shit they post? If his goal is to help further the vegan movement, I can guarantee people that are casually interested in thinking about going vegan would see his stuff and be immediately turned off forever. He's hateful and pseudo-intellectual. He's excellent at garnering views and passionate reactions, but he's working really hard to turn people away from going vegan forever.
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
TJ I was thinking the same thing, his approach makes Veganism look unappealing
@Lyxtwa
6 жыл бұрын
He just posted a video exposing that the motivation behind his videos is to publicly humiliate his targets and make them feel as "much pain as he can give them." It's clear that these styles of videos serve primarily as an emotional outlet and any kind of positive effect on others is a secondary thought.
@runaway817
6 жыл бұрын
@Udi Cassiopeia That just completely reinforces my opinion that the man is just crazy and doesn't deserve any attention. He's a stain on vegan KZitem.
@caffacaff
6 жыл бұрын
But isn't his point still accurate? Kalel was never a real vegan, she was a reducetarian then and she shouldn't try to say that she should still be considered vegan. She was still trying to water down the definition of veganism. And so maybe veganism isn't for most people then and maybe reducetarian can be, but his point still stands. I don't agree with how Richard acts most of the time but he still is right in a way.
@azuzu71
6 жыл бұрын
Being vegan is about the animals not other vegans.
@mcresent
6 жыл бұрын
Dont think VG has an issue with kaleel not being vegan, its when she calls her self vegan and not obliged to the term; creating confusion/misinterpretation to many . Maybe she should just be called reducetarian, or a striving vegan, nothing wrong with that as long as she is striving to do better and better .🤷🏻♀️
@manager6691
6 жыл бұрын
Belle V Kalel doesn’t call herself anything, she doesn’t identify with the vegan label at all anymore because of toxic vegans giving veganism a bad name.
@mcresent
6 жыл бұрын
Bryce Andrew Calling herself nothing is also fine as well. I simply pointing out what led to this whole confusion.
@melvegan5750
6 жыл бұрын
Of her own admission she has called herself vegan.
@corpsecandy2076
6 жыл бұрын
calling yourself something you by definition are not, then blaming vegans for being "toxic" and calling you out is just playing victim. She lied, and anyone with half a brain and values honesty SHOULD have a problem with that. She blatantly lied when she called herself vegan over the course of her videos, when she really was not. End of story.
@therobin980
6 жыл бұрын
TheCherroes if you accidentally eat something non vegan, you're still vegan.
@mickybyrne60
6 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly. He really doesn't care about the most effective Vegan Activism. Being right or "destroying" somebody is what he and his fanbase care more about.
@ssbinge
6 жыл бұрын
It's because he's a failure, and as a result of that, he's a misanthrope.
@q..q2291
6 жыл бұрын
Everlong Raider I’m not fond of him, nor do I think he’s a good advocate for veganism, but he is right about Kalel. Is that the most important thing? Maybe not, but you can’t just dismiss him.
@mickybyrne60
6 жыл бұрын
Sam Stone - She's vegan in the sense that she won't accept any animal products from people. If someone offered her something to eat and it has milk in, she is not going to say "sorry, I'm vegetarian". She'd most probably say "sorry, I'm vegan" or "Sorry, I'm trying to be vegan so no thanks". Kalel labelling herself vegetarian isn't reflective of her reality, nor is it necessary, or practical for what she's trying to achieve. She's mostly vegan and advocates for veganism, not vegetarianism.
@potatertots2060
6 жыл бұрын
He’s like the vegan idubbz
@mickybyrne60
6 жыл бұрын
AnHeC Why do you delude yourself into thinking veganism is some kind of moral benchmark for ethics? There's so much more we can do other than veganism to reduce suffering. Plastic waste for example is catastrophic to the environment, and sea creatures suffer as a direct consequence. More and more whales are turning up at beach shorelines full of plastic waste. I'm pretty sure "vegans" also contributed to that with their grocery shopping bags. How about the endless electricity we use? That harms the environment also. How about the low paid workers that get zilch for picking those Bananas for you? I'm sure their quality of life is just as important to you? I'm sorry but the more time goes by, the more the term "vegan" becomes diluted into something insignificant to the bigger picture. As Swayze has iterated, Vegan Gains consumes palm oil, which indirectly results in deforestation, and destroys animal habitats. He also feeds his dog meat. He got his previous dog form a breeder. These are NOT vegan choices. Is Richard not a vegan? Of course he is. (To me he is, anyway). The line that gets drawn is different for everyone, but I'd rather there not be a line at all. That's why the reducetarian movement is so important for the reduction of animal suffering. Everyone needs to contribute to make a significant impact.
@Amanda-kw1vh
5 жыл бұрын
I have recently become vegetarian and I can confirm that the reason I didn’t got straight into veganism was because of the pressure that came along with it.. Feeling like if I messed up once I would feel attacked or not worthy of being called a vegan.. I think transitioning phases help alleviate some of that pressure
@samiam2088
5 жыл бұрын
He’s either interested in more views, hence the outrage tantrums OR he’s interested in feeling smugly superior to others on his moral vegan high ground (but forget about the pure bred wolf dog he bought).
@cccecccilia
6 жыл бұрын
Vegan gains calls everyone dumb but he's the one who got a dog which he had to feed buckets of fresh meat everyday hahaha
@amyy164
6 жыл бұрын
Why he didn't talk about buying a dog from a breeder and feeding it meet thus increasing the demand for meat products?
@samuelluttrell-henshaw2322
6 жыл бұрын
Less is better than none. When people are put under pressure to eliminate every animal product at the same time, they are more likely to give up and THAT’S bad for veganism and for animals. We need more vegans like you to spread this message! Thanks Swayze!
@ThiccVegan
6 жыл бұрын
I get this all the time! I have been Vegan for 3 years - I have had maybe 5 slip ups? mostly because I was not aware of products in the food. I also have leather roller skates - I roller skate semi professionally and there (at the moment) is no other option for me. But Vegans will come for me! I'm like..... why? why is every thing else I do no valid because I have leather skates - I HAVE NO OTHER OPTION! am I just meant stop and give up....
@vgnfrlf8903
6 жыл бұрын
Thicc Vegan why don't you buy some of the vegan skates?? not hating, just asking. i personally have 2 pairs of leather shoes from before i was vegan and i would never buy them again
@annabelsummer2643
6 жыл бұрын
Lol one of my vegan friends is a semi professional skater, it's disingenuous to say that leather is necessary.
@kaspermuje9597
6 жыл бұрын
Just dont call yourself vegan thats all
@weremad
6 жыл бұрын
I don't really know how it works for roller skates, I'm a figure skater in training, and there are almost no options, and the ones that have almost no leather are either really really expensive or basically useless if you are going to try to do any jumps.
@testosteronic
6 жыл бұрын
And vegans wonder why people don't want to become vegan! When you have a fully vegan diet but there's just one thing in your life that isn't vegan you get screamed at. Why would anyone want to join a group of people who seem to actively want to jump down your throat for not being absolutely perfect?! It's so off putting
@lilcrabbybabby
6 жыл бұрын
If someone quit smoking, let's say 5 years ago, and 4 times a year has a cigarette during a stressful time or they want to indulge themselves, whatever, would you still consider them a smoker? I certainly wouldnt. I would consider it a slip-up. But they still actively dont smoke everyday, they only have an occasional slip, how does that change their status to smoker all of a sudden? So yes, I would consider Kalel a vegan still, a slip-up, purposeful or not, doesnt all of a sudden change your status. It would be different if let's say, someone was claiming they weren't a smoker, but still smoking everyday, like if someone claimed to be vegan, but still ate eggs every morning, that would be lie, not an very very rare indulgence. To ask the majority of people that weren't or arent vegan to never indulge in anything that could have possibly harmed animals ever again, is extremist for a lot of people. Isnt it far better to ask them to try their hardest, not to shame them for a slip-up or a mistake, and still allow them to be a part of the community with that label to hopefully better animals lives? Isnt that the whole point?
@magnumopus7406
6 жыл бұрын
If someone quit murdering, let's say 5 years ago, and 4 times a year murders during a stressful time or they want to indulge themselves, whatever, would you still consider them a murderer? I certainly wouldnt. I would consider it a slip-up. But they still actively dont murder everyday, they only have an occasional slip, how does that change their status to murderer all of a sudden?
@TheGreatDetectiveKnows
6 жыл бұрын
Right on Magnum. These people are completely braindead and against basic facts.
@Yorker1998
6 жыл бұрын
Not sure I would consider buying non-vegan candy bars a "slip-up" as oppossed to slipping up on an addictive habit such as smoking.
@Avenger222
6 жыл бұрын
One has a victim, the other does not. Magnum is 100% right.
@Hitogata
6 жыл бұрын
FFS That is NOT a fair comparison! You don't murder a cow by having a KitKat once a month. Kalel is Vegan.
@rachelturner1975
5 жыл бұрын
I watched a ted talk about reducetarians and i am eating less meat for the animals and environment 👍
@vegangaze
6 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I understand you are explaining reducetarianism, but notice how that isn't vegan? That was the entire issue- someone claiming they were vegan when they weren't avoiding animal products where possible and practicable. Kalel said herself they were indulgences. Pretty sure in his video he didn't say 'you're either vegan or you're scum', I think it was, 'you're either vegan or your not'. It felt like you said that to avoid saying the actual sentence, which in itself it valid- you either reduce animal product consumption where possible and practical or you don't- this is why other labels, such as reducetarianism are helpful because they are more fitting. Though they are doing something, it's simply not vegan- that's all that was truly being addressed. People get annoyed if people claim the colour red is actually blue- (though I don't think we should express our anger in the way it was). I think the point is being missed here. Also I don't think it's fair to downplay the effect of advocacy that we are doing currently. There are people out there busting their guts doing outreach, getting people on the challenge 22 link for example. The number of vegans is rising rapidly. I think the fact you are a vegan and you constantly undermine the efforts of vegans (may not be intentional, but it feels that way sometimes) and overplay how terrible the community is as a whole is incredibly unsupportive. We can appreciate the efforts of other movements while still advocating a label that we see as more helpful towards the final step. Veganism currently has so much more to figure out and move into. Saturating the definition to one just like ones that already exist is redundant
@JonathanWeihs
6 жыл бұрын
lol, you think the point is being missed here, you idiot. It's called drama and more viewers. Eat some meat. The bloodier the better.
@vegangaze
6 жыл бұрын
@@JonathanWeihs lmfao
@vegangaze
6 жыл бұрын
@@blazeking1211 oh I know she doesn't support our side very often, I'm just naive enough to hope she will do something more positive with the large platform she's lucky enough to have
@mirandazhang2024
6 жыл бұрын
Reducetarianism involves the reduction of animal product consumption, regardless of extent or motivation. That means both vegans and mindful omnivores can be included in the label. It's a more inclusive label which, I believe, is a significant step towards effecting wider change; especially since it's unclear where we draw the line with vegan. After all, "where possible and practical" is specific to each individual.
@vegangaze
6 жыл бұрын
@@mirandazhang2024 yes but it isn't veganism- that was the main issue- Kalel was trying to change the definition at the beginning. It as a movement will be valuable but it isn't an end goal. There must be clearer views of what societal change we are striving for. And possible and practicable, though can be loosely defined at times, are quite clearly understood
@TheTofuGoddess
6 жыл бұрын
I am living for this feud
@t.o.4251
6 жыл бұрын
I'm not living for UV having to deal with more drama but I do like Richard getting taken down a notch
@PhoenixRising87
6 жыл бұрын
I'm wondering when this entire movement is going to grow up and stop acting like teenagers (or toddlers, in Richard's case).
@funkymunky
6 жыл бұрын
The Tofu Goddess Grow up.
@anonchick4789
6 жыл бұрын
The Tofu Goddess top 10 anime battles
@CharleeCharlie
6 жыл бұрын
ElectricMayhem87 (Ashleigh) people who think diferent than me are immature.
@cimy1261
6 жыл бұрын
Hello, I would like to suggest for you to reach out and talk with Rationality Rules, he is very logical in his thoughts and videos, and recently has shown interest in veganism. I think a conversation between you too, or a debate could be very interesting to watch
@mate123bur
6 жыл бұрын
She'll just tell him: "Very good!! You're already vegetarian. That's awesome don't go any further!" Thumbs up, end of conversation :). Meanwhile cows and chickens continue to suffer from his purchases.
@cimy1261
6 жыл бұрын
Mateo I don't think so. She has a video from a while back discussing the moral behind veganism, and is a response to a debate. Since that video I always thought it would be interesting to hear her debate someone. And she wouldn't say that. She never said that eating eggs and milk is ok. She just says that's better to be vegetarian than omnivorous. And he isn't vegan, i think, cause he doesnt know that much about the milk and egg industry. The comment you just made now completely misrepresents what she stands for, and the message she tries to spread. A message she made very clear in this video even
@cimy1261
6 жыл бұрын
Notorious J why?
@maegangershon1711
4 жыл бұрын
As a non vegan, I have found the reducitarian movement to be far or approachable and far more grounded than most vegans. I have gone (almost) vegitarian and vegan is my end goal. Vegan can still be an over all goal where as reduction over time is the path to it.
@katabulous
6 жыл бұрын
“This doesn’t happen in real life” says the guy literally doing the thing
@Wya14
6 жыл бұрын
Thank you UN. Reducetarianism keeps me sane, even thought I get mocked by both omnis AND vegans alike, which is very disheartening in the long run.
@them1stocles
6 жыл бұрын
What? I’m confused. Someone who buys leather shoes or eats butter is not vegan, surely. I get that doesn’t mean maybe a huge deal, that perhaps they win more people over to the agenda, perhaps even they’re having a better overall impact on reducing animal suffering. I get the arguement, i agree with a lot of what is said in that and you articulate that point well. But (sorry), the word vegan should stay fairly straight forward and i can’t see buying leather and/or butter is alligned with vegan, its just not. Or at least i can’t see it. I don’t know any vegans who could explain that to me. I think Richard is trying to keep the words meaning, in a very brutal way that i wouldnt do.
@andreaaldrich4046
6 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I agree. I'm sure the cow she wears on her feet wanted to take one for the team, so she could have comfortable feet as she works on the bigger agenda and her reducetarian movement. She's a hypocrite and ass-kisser. Unsubbing.
@annabelsummer2643
6 жыл бұрын
Andrea Aldrich I've unsubscribed - she's a weak activist who only bashes other vegans. She tears the community down and teaches new vegan viewers that they only need to half ass veganism.
@vegandreamer8203
6 жыл бұрын
Kalel thinks that she does so much for veganism so its ok she buys candy bars, leather shoes, silk, buttered popcorn, perfumes tested on animals. Idk if she only bought 1 time by accident id still say shes vegan. Seems she is purposely purchasing animal products.
@caffacaff
6 жыл бұрын
Vegan Dreamer yeah there is a difference between consuming an animal product, acknowledging you shouldn't have done it if you're vegan and having no intent to doing it again with having intent to do it again when you feel like it and trying to water down veganism to suit you. I agree with UV about reducetarianism but I feel like she's going off on tangents from the original point Richard had regarding Kalel.
@q..q2291
6 жыл бұрын
filtereyeblind I see you in all the comments trying to water down the concerns people have about the label veganism. Why? It’s perfectly reasonable to not agree with a vegan knowingly buying non vegan products out of indulgence and vanity.
@nicholasallatt-trodd1596
5 жыл бұрын
I love how down-to-earth and science-backed your videos are!
@James-zr1lu
6 жыл бұрын
Nice strawman - Richard never said he didn't prefer some one to be a reducatarian over a full pledged omnivore. Obviously a reducatarian is better but ultimately being a reducatarian is still not vegan.
@valken666
6 жыл бұрын
Why waste time on reducetarians when there are people who consume vast amounts of animal products? Infighting is a bad image for veganism.
@gCuezy
6 жыл бұрын
The point is that it isn't "IN"-fighting. A reducitarian is not a vegan. Reducitarians are fine, reducitarians saying they ARE vegan is not.
@kezzamedic
6 жыл бұрын
Well he calls people nasty reducitareians or vegetarians it does seem he sees no difference
@q..q2291
6 жыл бұрын
Valken it’s not about image or effective activism. Those things are important, but there is still right and wrong and we shouldn’t shy away from those discussions.
@jessicaemslie7149
6 жыл бұрын
I could totally get on board with reducetarianism . Veganism has always put me off with the extremest labels and the struggle during travel and social situations. This would allow those situations to be less stressful and make me much more likely to eat vegan at home at least .
@moi-cb9yh
6 жыл бұрын
is it just me or do the Richard guy's arguments sound a little too much like something onion boy would say?
@tamaraarcher855
6 жыл бұрын
A perfect example of what you were talking about. My friend and I wanted to go vegan at around the same time. She became disillusioned with the vegan community and only became a vegetarian and is now convinced being vegan would be too difficult. If she were still considering going vegan, even if she weren't fully vegan, she would be eating less milk and eggs than she does now.
@mrlloydval2887
6 жыл бұрын
well reducetarianism is great, but if someone is buying animal products because they want to and it's not necessary then they are not in line with veganism.
@notthefather3919
5 жыл бұрын
Fine, but why are vegans so obsessed with labels rather than the end goal?
@armani3762
6 жыл бұрын
Veganism is reducing harm to what is practically possible. Intentionally buying chocolate bars with milk a few times a year and buying a Pair of shoes with a small amount of leather is not vegan. PERIOD.
@newbreed1199
6 жыл бұрын
Armani Yeah those are not Vegan. Also intentionally buying Palm Oil is not Vegan.
@q..q2291
6 жыл бұрын
Armani I agree, we can do better!
@newbreed1199
6 жыл бұрын
Aaa Aaa Animals are harmed and suffer in the process. We don’t need palm oil. If you intentionally buy it you are not Vegan and are no better than the other fake Vegan Kalel.
@daria6241
6 жыл бұрын
Yes because if im vegan and i slip up or buy something non vegan I can never call myself vegan again. People arent allowed to make mistakes I guess 🙈
@ganasde65
6 жыл бұрын
Is buying 3 non vegan candy bars a year worth this level of outrage though? This type of cultish gatekeeping is such a waste of time. If Kalel wants to call herself vegan, let her. As UV said, why is palm oil excused just because it fits within the rigid definition of veganism?
@lysseast2380
6 жыл бұрын
This is all well and good but just call yourself reducitarian not vegan. Also I still find it odd that when a different vegan KZitemr purposely bought animal products you said he wasnt a vegan and that we needed to have a distinct definition of what vegan is, but kalel can still be vegan when she dies the same thing... Like what? Why?
@wschippr1
6 жыл бұрын
Alyssa Bestler People can change their minds about topics
@yon4348
6 жыл бұрын
@@wschippr1 yes they can. But they should address that change and explain why. Otherwise she lays herself open to a charge of hypocrisy. As it stands she has tried to justify a change in the definition of veganism on very flimsy grounds!
@q..q2291
6 жыл бұрын
Alex Noa I think kalel’s subscriber count might have something to do with it though........
@pattycarljackson
6 жыл бұрын
I agree if you aren’t vegan you shouldn’t call yourself vegan. I’ve seen people say they are vegan and then non vegan give them an odd look and say I thought vegan don’t eat animal products. You can’t just change the definition of something and if people do this it can change what veganism is to meat eaters and then we’ll just have people walking around calling themselves vegan. I actually see this happen and it pisses me off.
@drsalka
6 жыл бұрын
yep, seen it too many times.
@matildecassetta29
5 жыл бұрын
by being so set on arguing the semantics of veganism, it becomes nothing more than an autodafé or a badge of pride instead of a means to an end. I highly doubt that someone who consumes animal products on the regular would call themselves vegan, since we have that other splendid label that is _vegetarian_. Also, just because one consumes only vegan-labelled products , it does not mean they are making the most ethical and sustainable decision by default, since the definition of what is and isn't vegan isn't a god-given truth. ALSO, real and permanent change can only come from changes in legislations and the economic system, and private initiative can only do so much. I don't think a radical approach is necesseraly better than a critical one, it's just easier to apply and defend because it paints a world of black and white, good or ungood, vegan and not vegan. Which is obviously not the case.
@jackriver8385
5 жыл бұрын
My mom literally said to me that she doesn't support the meat industry and all I could think was "but.. you eat meat?" And it's usually not organic meat either. I didn't say anything but I was very puzzled by it. Different thing, I know, just kinda similar I guess.
@talllett7959
4 жыл бұрын
To be fair, the majority of “vegans” still use toilet paper that isn’t vegan, their cars still have leather on the steering wheel or they use modern medicine (majority of which no longer fits the new definition of veganism). Vegan only until recently had to do with products outside of food. Vegan by definition had nothing to do with clothes, make up, or items. So new vegans themselves changed the definition of veganism and still do not abide by the new definition.
@laughatdarkness1286
4 жыл бұрын
I've had someone call me vegan because I use almond milk instead of regular milk. I'm a vegetarian. I still eat dairy because I am picky and cannot stand beans, so I NEED to eat cheese and yogurt and eggs for protein.
@ChannelRichard
6 жыл бұрын
Kalel should change her messaging to "transitioning vegan" or "aspiring vegan" or "99% vegan." VG should support her in correcting for her last remaining blind spots (candy bars, popcorn, shoes) rather than just yelling at her. UV should continue supporting Kalel while also respectfully holding her to the same standard she held Vegan Cheetah for the sake of clarity and consistency, which arguably matters but doesn't merit vitriol. Solved?
@DoubleDelishdotcom
6 жыл бұрын
ChannelRichard amen
@RhiannaBarr
5 жыл бұрын
Applause
@katkat7828
6 жыл бұрын
The thing that irks me about a militant stand like that of VG and any others that lashed out at Kalel... When is one allowed to refer to themselves as a vegan? Is there a magic number of months or years that you have to be vegan for to call yourself a vegan? If someone like kalel eats that chocolate bar and then is completely vegan apart from that incident, is she then allowed to call herself a vegan again upon digestion of said candy bar? Could I call myself a vegan if I ate meat as recently as 5 days ago and then decided to go vegan for the first time in my life? Is veganism a state of mind? The labels are confusing and off-putting to a majority of non vegans. As for Vegan Gains - he hates you because you have made him look stupid on several occasions.
@katkat7828
6 жыл бұрын
NatuHealth I understand all that. My meat eating scenario referred to a person who is brand new to veganism. Say I ate meat last week and this week I commit to a fully vegan lifestyle. Am I a vegan? Or do I need to earn my stripes? That's the whole problem with all of the labels to me.
@saltoftheegg
6 жыл бұрын
It’s so true. Why can’t people wrap their minds around that?
@dialecticalveganegoist1721
6 жыл бұрын
Veganism is not a something you can wear when it fits you. Just like being antiracism, you either are a racist or not. I can't hate a certain group of people only 4 times a year and still call myself someone who is against racism. Veganism= antispecism. Once you see animals as sentient beings and not as an object you can use for your own convenience, then you are a vegan.
@katkat7828
6 жыл бұрын
0XYG3N I understand that. It doesn't really answer the question though.
@saltoftheegg
6 жыл бұрын
0XYG3N You definitely didn’t watch the whole video. VG fans do this kind of crap at an alarming rate. There’s no way to reason with them because they aren’t listening to you, they’re just waiting for their turn to talk so they can make the same point using a different combination of words.
@MrsNorry
5 жыл бұрын
I'd also like to add that it's a very ableist viewpoint to say that every single person who isn't vegan is a terrible person. There are many physical ailments that could prevent a person from going completely vegan, but it doesn't mean they can't at least reduce their use of animal products where they can. I have Crohn's disease, a chronic gastrointestinal illness that comes along with a lot of severe food sensitivities. I can't eat a lot of fruits and vegetables without feeling horribly sick, because my diet is already reduced so much, I worry about being able to get the nutrients my body needs if I were to further restrict my diet by going vegan. It could be possible in the long run, but it would take a lot of time and trial and error. I also know a few people who are recovering from eating disorders, and restricting their diet in any way could cause them to relapse into their illness. For people like this, veganism just may not be possible. In cases like this, it's important to recognize that people are doing the best the can according to what their physical and mental illness will allow. And giving them an option of reducing animal product consumption rather than eliminating (which, again, may not even be possible) allows them to participate in reducing animal suffering and strain on the environment without actually being fully vegan.
@Norahizetta
6 жыл бұрын
Look Vegan gains is crazy...BUT Kalel is also full of crap. I agree with him that she is being a major hypocrite but wants the vegan label for her own personal ego. With the whole palm oil issue she said "Oh its only a teaspoon of milk but I'm more worried about the palm oil in those candy bars that's causing more destruction" BUT she's still buying the candy so she's supporting the dairy and the palm oil industries... The leather shoe issue I also find really stupid. It's vanity, there are a lot of nonvegan shoes out there, can she not set aside her vanity long enough to just not have leather shoes? I think if Kalel wants to step away from being vegan, she can do that and we can't stop her...but I agree that if she doesn't want to be vegan she shouldn't call herself vegan right? This whole situation has left me with a bad taste in my mouth from all angles honestly, and really I think the animals are the only ones hurt here.
@briana.9921
6 жыл бұрын
look, even if Kalel wanted it for personal ego, the fact that she advocates for veganism and puts it in a positive light on her HUGE platform makes it such a good thing. For all I care Kalel could eat kfc every night. The fact that she puts the message out there is so much more important than the actions of her as an individual.
@ChristUponus
6 жыл бұрын
Bexan Code Where is your diligence? where is your dedication? Reducitarians or whatever you call them are fake, lazy and incompetent.
@q..q2291
6 жыл бұрын
Brxan Code yeah how about no.
@Norahizetta
6 жыл бұрын
I dont think Unnatural Vegan is a nonvegan. She did not say that she buys leather or nonvegan candy bars a few times a year. I just think she wants to support Kalel because she likes Kalel and has shown bias towards her in the past. I dont blame UV for liking or not liking anyone, thats her choice. However I just want her to be aware of her bias and of how illogical Kalel is being.
@inmyglowupera
6 жыл бұрын
This is why I am subscribed to this channel even though I am not vegan, she gets it. Richard has the same approach as a modern republican, and is overall ill informed. He has the same argumentative approach as that man names Steven Crowder in his "Change My Mind" series, I get baffled every time I see a video of his to the point that I get so frustrated I can't finish the video. It's one of those things that the individual is so ignorant that it's just a waist of time, you're not going to get through to them, that content is only suited for people with likeminded minds and if they choose to consume that content good for them.
@piggy_queen0426
4 жыл бұрын
Girl you need to start a podcast
@orangeradios
4 жыл бұрын
Yes!
@Jessica-ld9dw
6 жыл бұрын
You are so great! I saw a girl that claimed she was vegan eat chicken the other day and I wanted to ask so badly why she was doing it and then I realized it's non of my business and felt really stupid. We need more vegans like you to keep us all sane.
@Bee-wx3xu
6 жыл бұрын
Jessica You dont have to confront the girl, but if she ate chicken then she isnt vegan................
@blueviserion
6 жыл бұрын
Jessica you really should've spit in that non-vegan's face. lol jk jk
@becci497
5 жыл бұрын
im not vegan, im mostly pescetarian, but i deviate from time to time. Im to scared to label myself as anything 'tarian' because i feel i would get attacked for not being vegan enough. I love that you brought this up, i didn't know until know that reducetarianism was a thing that exists. I finally have something i can 100% associate myself with, so thank you! :)
@ktridente101
3 жыл бұрын
Im glad you brought this issue to light, you gave a very sound and reflective perspective , and I agree with your message, its hard to break the routine of consuming meat and animal products when you're raised in an environment of animal consumption, so taking slow increments is very rational. Its not always an All or Nothing approach when it comes to veganism or a plant based diet.
@Ms5000Watts
5 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thank you for all of your work!
@abruskabrus3677
6 жыл бұрын
just debate him already..
@amethyrosemary8296
6 жыл бұрын
Abrus Kabrus yas!
@sacmakiz
6 жыл бұрын
No, he has a mind and manner of a kid that just uses adult words. Not worth the effort!
@TheNocturnalpheonix
6 жыл бұрын
Abrus Kabrus Have you watched his debates? It's like watching an Onision "debate". Case in point to when they debated each other; two sides of the same coin. No one needs to subject themselves to that kind of migraine.
@freshasadaisy4782
6 жыл бұрын
UV isnt able to debate bc she needs time to think and respond and that does not fit in a live conversation.
@bruisley709
6 жыл бұрын
Vegan Gains is a whole different person when he debates very respectful and considerate.
@Aceofwolves
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you...small change is STILL change. Every little bit helps
@ayadf3754
6 жыл бұрын
VG isn't against reducetarians, he's against liars.
@Drgluee
6 жыл бұрын
Thank you, and we need to remember Mic The Vegan is not a fan of UV, and he is a voice of reason.
@carmenmariagarciapascual7767
6 жыл бұрын
He is against everything. The funny thing, is that he has a dog and gives it meat, hasn’t he?
@ChristUponus
6 жыл бұрын
Carmen maria Garcia Pascual Please, you're smarter than that aren't you?
@therobin980
6 жыл бұрын
Greg Reed so just because Mic the vegan doesn't like her we shouldn't like her?
@hello8987
6 жыл бұрын
VEGAN GAINS ISN'T VEGAN!! He has a dog he feeds meat daily!! but waaaaaaa a non vegan bar 4x a year waaaaaaaaaa
@jhadesdev9576
6 жыл бұрын
Yes I'm all for reducitarianism. VG is putting up an act, he can't be THAT crazy, its for views mostly. Richard is a real problem to the vegan movement. He is the biggest vegan youtuber after all, he gives such a poor first impression, making vegans look like angry nutcases.
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
JHades Dev sadly I think he is that crazy.
@xSTEVENx286x
6 жыл бұрын
is he really the biggest vegan youtuber? if so then yeah i think it's safe to assume he's done more harm to the movement, nobody is gonna be convinced from some moralizing douche like he portrays himself as and anyone who does go vegan after watching his content was probably gonna do it anyway.
@PhoenixRising87
5 жыл бұрын
@MGTOW Revolution Guess again. I and many other vegans did have a problem with them for years, but no one listened to us (or they and their apologists accused us of being "jealous," or worse off, gaslighted us by saying we were being "divisive").
@ughenvy71
6 жыл бұрын
Yes it is great to reduce suffering even in small scales but claiming you’re vegan and still supporting Leather or milk means you’re not vegan... Being mostly vegan isn’t the same as being vegan. It’s not a hard concept to understand. Yes some people make a gradual change to veganism but once they’re vegan if they go back and indulge in dairy or meat (frequent or not) they are no longer vegan. Just admit you’re supporting Kalel because she has a huge following rather than bullshiting the definitions of words. You called out Charles Marlow for not being vegan because he ate Ramen. But can agree with Kalel that she’s vegan for basically doing the exact same thing. Agreeing or disagreeing on how activism is approached doesn’t change the definition of the word Vegan. Using the word vegan to build a brand on something when they don’t take it seriously themselves sends the wrong message as a whole. If a “vegan” influencer admits veganism is hard people aren’t going to adopt. Because they aren’t going to even attempt it.
@ughenvy71
6 жыл бұрын
filtereyeblind umm okay... “Policing” Kalel and her 2 million followers that agree with her are shown in the light which is making the statement “Veganism is hard and everything is impossible.” Which in turn is saying why even try to be vegan. If you’re being vegan the whole point is to try to convince people to do so and goes against what you stand for. It has nothing to do with Ego or being superior.
@kalij.cfiera4926
6 жыл бұрын
I feel kind of conflicted because I have a leather jacket and leather boots(several leathervboots) and I'm not feeling like throwing them away or stop using them. THEY WERE HELLA EXPENSIVE
@jenkay590
6 жыл бұрын
The harm is already done. I would find it way more offensive - for the animal who died for that too - to throw those things away. Why can't vegans just keep, appreciate and honor those things? They tend to last very long and yes, even if people don't want to hear this, are of better quality. If you don't buy them again where's the problem?
@VeganGains
6 жыл бұрын
Wow you've outdone yourself. You even provided evidence supporting my argument. You first claim that reducitarianism is about ending animal exploitation and then you show an article which supports my claim that reducitarianism is only about reducing not eliminating animal exploitation. You even referenced research that shows that both reducitarianism and veganism are equally effective means of animal advocacy. Well if they're equally as effective then why wouldn't you support the method of activism that is morally superior and coherent? You're also directly contradicting your own statements. First you claimed Kalel is vegan and now you're claiming she isn't vegan. If this is the best you can do then why bother? Do you want to embarrass yourself or something?
@ThomasShatter
6 жыл бұрын
Hi VG. When we will see another video with a knife? :3
@erikrobinson3133
6 жыл бұрын
what do you expect she is inbred
@erikrobinson3133
6 жыл бұрын
Alexander Pollock She doesn't do debates, she just makes makes video responses, and hides from other KZitemrs who she knows will absolutely destroy her like AYS.
@freshasadaisy4782
6 жыл бұрын
look at these little VG warriors. so cute.
@mate123bur
6 жыл бұрын
She says you don’t understand reducetarianism and then shares a clip of you perfectly explaining reducetarianism lmao
@mate123bur
6 жыл бұрын
No UV, either you're a reducetarian or vegan. Kalel says she is vegan but is reducetarian and is trying to change the definition. You supported her and now you are changing the goal post and talking trash like always instead of admitting you were wrong.
@vi3889
6 жыл бұрын
I think all of you need to chill. What's up with the vegans just being so angry at life?
@JennRighter
6 жыл бұрын
It was a brief screenshot, but I'm glad you showed Supreme Banana. She is quirky, witty, intelligent, easy to relate to, NOT dogmatic or pretentious, and she happens to be young, cool, and beautiful. Even I love to watch her channel, even though I'm almost 38 and I'm pretty sure she's 21. She's one of the only people on KZitem that has a vegan-centric channel that (I think) would easily appeal to nonvegans. Especially young people.
@PhoenixRising87
6 жыл бұрын
Jenn Righter I ❤ Supreme Banana!
@longshotkdb
6 жыл бұрын
soo, shes not vegan then. that was the point. redefining the term 'vegan' ... like charlie and his fucking umbrella. _kalel_ is not 'vegan' so she does not get to identify as 'vegan', its really not that difficult.
@amethyrosemary8296
6 жыл бұрын
Natural Froing hair and the milk chocolat, butter, leather and silk lol
@amethyrosemary8296
6 жыл бұрын
Natural Froing hair I think you have no idea what is going on, she does buy and eat non vegan stuff intentionally a few times a month...
@amethyrosemary8296
6 жыл бұрын
Natural Froing hair oh I thought we were talking about kalel...no UV apparently is vegan
@NannoChii
6 жыл бұрын
There are a lot of idiots out there.
@scousehouse8459
6 жыл бұрын
but using that logic neither is vegan gains? wolf dog...meat in the fridge? ring any bells...
@nickj9085
6 жыл бұрын
Reducetarianism is to say ' a litle harm is ok' thats WHAT IT IS.. that might not be the discrivtion a Reducetarianism would use for himself, but that IS WHAT IT IS.
@anna-katehowell9852
3 жыл бұрын
I am a vegetarian (transitioned from pescetarianism a year or so ago) and a longtime follower and admirer of your channel, and I have always appreciated your more compassionate approach toward non-vegans who are out here doing our best.
@clairewillow6475
4 жыл бұрын
Richard sounds like he went into being a vegan for the wrong reasons. He doesn’t sound like he actually cares about helping animals but he cares about being “better” than other people (in his mind).
@HarbingerBK
6 жыл бұрын
I appreciate your reasoning and rationale so much in your videos. I used to be an angry indignant vegan who hated you because you didn't preach from the high altar of "vegan is the only option". Now over 2 years later I'm not angry, I've got non-vegan friends who are reducitarianing and asking me for advice, I feel great, and you're my favourite vegan youtuber. Keep up the great work!
@AlyssaJaneVolta
6 жыл бұрын
Thank you for being such a rational vegan influencer. Richard and other extremists make vegans seem so insane. You are the voice of reason in this community. I will forever share your videos with others because you are always intelligent, eloquent and realistic. The vegan community needs more people like you.
@BrammetjeOoms
4 жыл бұрын
I fully agree with reducetarianism! First started to reduce a year or two back. On and off to more or less degrees. Decided to just try for new year 2019 to see if I could just not eat meat for a while. I am now 11 months in and I don't think I'll go back to consuming meat.
@mass9047
6 жыл бұрын
Disagree. I think VG is just saying - in his very confrontational and blunt way - that you can't call yourself a vegan if you're not actually a vegan. And he's not wrong...
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
MASS ...but his delivery is offensive to many people.
@mass9047
6 жыл бұрын
yes, but that's kind of irrelevant to the facts
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
MASS you mean your mother never told you "it's not only what you say but how you say it"...
@mass9047
6 жыл бұрын
do you actually have a point to make?
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
MASS you do not seem able to receive it
@jackriver8385
5 жыл бұрын
First I reduced the amount of meat I ate, then I stopped eating meat altogether. Then I reduced the amount of dairy I consumed and now I'm strongly avoiding dairy products, relying on fortified soy milk instead. Now I've been reducing my egg consumption (and I found a way to make tasty vegan pancakes!) And I think soon I'll be able to go vegan completely. Baby steps. Reducetarianism does lead somewhere, at least for me it did. I'm always looking for small changes to my lifestyle that will make a great impact.
@vinregret
5 жыл бұрын
I'm a proud reducetarian! I have a dairy allergy so I have already been used to reading ingredients, finding alternatives to things, etc, and thanks to your videos, I'm now trying to reduce my meat and egg consumption as much as possible, ideally going completely vegan eventually :)
@DoubleDelishdotcom
6 жыл бұрын
Saying "hey, it's OK to take it slowly, no one is perfect" is not the same as deliberately buying dairy years later. It may not explicitly say "some suffering is OK", but it definitely implies it if it's done deliberately for an extended period of time. Not sure why there's a disconnect here.
@jonstan171
6 жыл бұрын
You’ve just completely changed the topic!! You originally stated that it’s okay to call yourself vegan even if you buy leather shoes etc.. VG was simply arguing that you can’t, which is the factually correct position to hold! If Kalel called herself a reducitarian then there would have been no issue in the first place. You lost a lot of credibility in this back and forth. Your own conflicting statements have been exposed and you unwillingness to have a live debate with him is extremely telling.
@mehname8597
6 жыл бұрын
Exactly =( she missed out a ton of what he said! It is important we made it clear veganism is a philosophy and goal we should aim for , telling people that "oh well palm oil is worse" is misleading and confuses people on what veganism is, it also muddles the waters when you say "none of use can truly be vegan" She skipped this and just started to talk about the effectiveness of psychology and activism and all of a sudden the comment "none of us can be truly vegan and earth balance is worse than dairy" are not addressed. I get that she has a life and can't do a point by point video buuuut hmpth xD
@TheRestlessFantasist
6 жыл бұрын
UV doesn't owe anyone who wants to debate with her her time. She has her own life and her own things to worry about and even though it's possible that she may have the time to 'debate' with VG, she doesn't have to just because it's demanded of her. And I say 'debate' because in all likelihood VG would spend the entire time interrupting, focusing on petty semantics (like he has done with every other point both Kalel and UV made rather than the bulk of their arguments) and being generally unpleasant. He's not the kind of guy you can have a successful debate with, because he's apparently incapable of not talking circles around anything or admitting when he's wrong.
@mehname8597
6 жыл бұрын
Chiore Zora Il-Se To be fair I don't think you can like "force" youtubers to debate each when they just don't want to but she cherry picked his video and only responded to a few things. She never addressed what made vegans annoyed with her =/ When she compared earth balance to the dairy industry and said "nobody truly can be vegan"
@Dr3Mc3Ninja
6 жыл бұрын
Jonathan Rosenfeld Dick bought a wolf dog from a breeder and then bought hunks of meat for said dog. Obviously the dog needs to eat, but to buy such a breed from a specialised breeder when you know it will need an all-meat diet is just plain illogical for someone who is so adamantly vegan. I would not call that very vegan, so Dick being so rabid about the label makes no sense. It is impossible to be entirely vegan. Bugs are animals too. I am a strong believer that words should not have their meanings diminished by being made to define loads of categories, but to say that just because Sam ate a bit of cheese 5 years into veganism, and then was vegan for another 5 years, that she somehow was not vegan for 10 years seems ridiculous to me. If I stopped using/eating any animal products for a week, would I then be automatically considered vegan and no longer an omnivore?
@TheRestlessFantasist
6 жыл бұрын
For full disclosure here, I'm not vegan and nor am I that familiar with what it means to be vegan beyond the not consuming animal product and reducing harm. I can't speak for the philosophies behind it because I've only just begun to learn and to reduce my part in those shady practices. I'm well aware that you can't force youtubers to debate each other, but thank you for clarifying it. It just seems to be that any time two youtubers have a disagreement the immediate response from the audience or from one party is to 'debate it'. Such debates never go well because there's never a mediator and everyone wants their opinion to be heard. VG, despite what you believe about his content, does have a history of being aggressive with his approach to conversation and debate. VG also picked apart UV's video and only responded to the bits he could talk his way around. It's true that UV does the same here, but how can it be alright for him to do it and not her? My point is that a debate or talk at this point between UV and VG would be pointless because they're both trying to get different arguments across that are only vaguely related to the same point. I don't have to be an expert at veganism to know that that kind of debate is pointless, and it's silly to ask or demand time from either of them when there will likely be no satisfactory result. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify what I meant, I could have been clearer :)
@ThePukiris
6 жыл бұрын
Reducetarian, what a lovely term! I refer to myself as vegan sometimes, since that is my end goal. However: I do own leather shoes (since they last longer than fake leather, so I'm wasting less product that way), I do eat fish or eggs sometimes, but I don't consume milk. I think it's important to take the steps you can take, one at a time. I want to become vegan gradually, since it's the best way for me. I live at home, and my dad was able to change his viewx on vegetarianism and veganism because of me. He sees how it doesn't have to be that hard now. He sees the full picture now, and I am so proud of him (and myself) that he was able to reduce his meat intake so drastically (I never would've thought it would happen)! I'll call myself reducetarian from now on, since that's much more fitting. Thanks for the video! PS: I love drama like this, from either sides. Some vegans are so f*ing aggressive that it's almost funny. Same deal with meat eaters, they make fun of vegetarians, but get triggered when you explain why you don't eat meat anymore. It's hilarious.
@daviddejuannavarro291
6 жыл бұрын
it is common knowledge that Richard has anger management issues, and that clouds his views on everything. No Surprise here
@taylornelson6403
6 жыл бұрын
Excellent video, very on point as usual. I'll be honest I was hella excited to see this video in my notifications 😅 What you were saying about how an accepting online vegan community is important is SOOOOOOOO true. I think the fact that we have an online community in the first place (in addition to online information and resources) is a huge contributer to the increase in vegans and vegatarians these past years, and I believe it will also contribute greatly to ensuring people stay on said diet. Having a place where people can discuss any questions or troubles their dealing with or even just vent any frustrations is obviously gonna be beneficial to people and the movement. This is why I hate gatekeeping 😂
@alysonkipp6080
6 жыл бұрын
"vegan gains" is still immature and needs a lot more life experience. Why does he identify with a diet? A diet is not you, it's a choice, it's part of your lifestyle. You can pick it up... you can leave it at any time. It's not YOU. YOU are something - way more awesome than that. Enjoy your life, breathe deep, and appreciate every moment you have.
@valerieperez972
6 жыл бұрын
Alyson Kipp Veganism isn't a diet, it's a philosophy. A certain diet has to be followed under veganism, but that's not the entirety of what being vegan is.
@alysonkipp6080
6 жыл бұрын
Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.
@mate123bur
6 жыл бұрын
Lmao veganism is not a diet. UV has you thinking it is though.
@alysonkipp6080
6 жыл бұрын
Regardless of what you call it - a diet, a lifestyle, a journey. It’s not you. I’m a “police officer,” I’m “Christian,” “Buddhist,” “gay,” “straight,” “traveler” “philanthropist” etc. doesn’t matter, you get the point I would hope. All that to share just one thought, that you are more than a silly term. That you are greater. That is all. Why is everything such a production, an argument. This was meant to be one small positive in a world filled with so much negative.
@alysonkipp6080
6 жыл бұрын
AnHeC you don’t get it
@elizabethshaw734
5 жыл бұрын
I went vegan overnight I decided one day to go vegan and I took everything that wasn't vegan out of my house. I gave some to my caregiver at the time and the rest of it disappeared. Becoming vegan this way that I did is not something that's recommended. Most people need to slide into it a bit slower and eat what you have at home for meat because to throw it out would just be a waste.
@alexgewecke9576
6 жыл бұрын
Reducitarianism is not veganism. The problem is you are conflating the two and weakening the vegan message. And to say reducitarians want abolition of animal agriculture is ridiculous....they are directly supporting the industry when it is so damn easy not to! The solution to the problem, in my opinion, is lab grown meat. If you can create a product that is literally the same thing, without suffering and death, and make it cheaper than the real thing, that's probably the only thing that will actually end animal agriculture.
@sheelankarim8409
6 жыл бұрын
Another excellent video 👏
@sierras.4592
3 жыл бұрын
I've wanted to adopt a vegan lifestyle, but my partner is not on board for it as he sees it as more extreme. Choosing to do a mostly plant based diet has been a lot more welcoming for him. He's on board, we're buying way fewer animal products, eventually no animal products. Seems like a win to me.
@Ashly969
6 жыл бұрын
Maybe reducetarian can be the label for transitioning vegans. So you and Kalel are reducetarians? Because vegans don't actually use animal products out of choice. It's not moral grand standing to not do something f'd up and being an actual vegan. Or as you would say a "vegan puritan". Veganism isn't reducetarianism. It may help the vegan movement but it isn't the same. I just don't think there are shades of veganism. You can work to get there but you can't be vegan "most of the time". It's not morally consistent. You're plant based/vegetarian/reducetarianism etc till you actually get there. What are you talking about "it's not about lying". You and her both omitted anti vegan sentiments and actions for awhile. Calling yourselves vegan didn't stop either of you occasionally using animal products out of choice. I was subbed to you for such a long time. Because you always gave that opposite view point and made me mad at you cos i wanted to see it a certain way lol, But this whole Kalel and you trying to change veganism to be some sort shading system of vegan and it's definition is really wishy washy. Vegans can ally with plant based, reducetarians w/e. Alot of us started from omni anyway. Just for the love of god don't misrepresent yourself.
@candice1481
5 жыл бұрын
This video hit home with a few of your points because 1) after being a vegetarian for 2 years I decided to go vegan and I wasn’t perfect (obviously) and while reaserching I came across Vegan Gains’ channel and, well, I felt like I didn’t deserve that title so 2) I resorted to go back to vegetarianism because that was accurate and I kept eating eggs and milk and other dairy products because, hey, I wasn’t vegan so why would I care ? I was still eating the way that was appropriate for my diet
@poppyrendall847
6 жыл бұрын
I'm glad there's technically a word for what I am, I've been a vegetarian for 2 years now, and I don't drink milk or eat eggs but because of allergies I can't eat many vegan foods when I eat out. But at some point (when I live on my own) I will become fully vegan, but I hate when people undermine other peoples effort to cut out animal products, it's better than eating meat imo ❤
@annabels1234
5 жыл бұрын
When I was going vegan I didn’t want to say I was vegan so I just told people I was trying to avoid animal products
@orangeradios
4 жыл бұрын
Smart. People will attack you if you say you’re vegan.
@IamQuh
6 жыл бұрын
Yes he does he just doesn't call it veganism. Get a grip. I unsubribed for this travesty of a response. Leather shoes are not vegan.
@yon4348
6 жыл бұрын
@filtereyeblind Yeh we all watched the videos. And in one of them UV said eating buttered popcorn and buying leather shoes would not stop her calling Kalel a vegan. So Yeh, I might disagree with Richards use of language, but he is bang on in calling out UVs bullshit! Whilst I'm happy to commend anyone adopting a reducetarian diet, I don't get why anyone would call that person vegan? And finally, I'm halfway thru this vid and so far she hasn't addressed Richards very good point of her contradictory treatment of Kalel and Charles Marlowe!
@yon4348
6 жыл бұрын
@filtereyeblind hey, I think we probably both agree the the drama is not a good thing. And I don't want to run around calling people out for being fake vegans. But, the label vegan should stand for something. It should have a proper meaning. And if someone is reducetarian then fine. No probs with that at all. But I think Richards point is why are vegans calling reducetarians vegans? And I understand that point.
@Avenger222
6 жыл бұрын
Richard cares more about ethics than feelings, that's all. Please debate him, you'd agree on much more than you think.
@estelacbs
6 жыл бұрын
Have you seen Peter Coffin videos on veganism? I would love your take on his opinions about veganism.
@annathiika5755
6 жыл бұрын
Hell yes. I'd throw in the video about plastic straw use is a valuable one too. It really illustrates how personal action is great but isn't enough. Addressing the system in addition to making the personal moral argument is the most effective way to address the issue.
@kennedycrouch5171
6 жыл бұрын
*deep breath* ATTENTION IS CURRENCY IN THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS
@annathiika5755
6 жыл бұрын
Mother Superior Dr. Peter Coffin, BLT is in and will see you now
@ononono7016
6 жыл бұрын
Unnatural Vegan really explained well, how vegans should accept less vegan ways as reducing overall suffering and a good gateway for non-vegans to become more conscious and someday become fully vegan.
@ononono7016
6 жыл бұрын
If you already are fully vegan and comfortable, then obviously avoid non-vegan options as much as possible.
@ononono7016
6 жыл бұрын
It's a transition. Similar to people that manage to avoid animal products should start to avoid palm oil as well. You should always strive to better yourself, but the feeling that you need to be perfect and aren't allowed any mistakes that is stupid. Obviously, Kalel shouldn't buy candy bars and other things, she knows aren't vegan, but she is already better besides those mistakes than if she gave up completely and started buying animal products daily again. Such people like Kalel should say that they are still transitioning and that they are trying to avoid doing non-vegan purchases more. So, it's the end of the world when you buy something non-vegan and your vegan-streak is broken and suddenly you aren't vegan anymore. Already being vegan publically is good. Seeing your errors and correcting, is necessary anyway, but the error is done and can't be undone. Kalel should try to understand, why she feels like purchasing the non-vegan things, despite feeling guilty in doing so.
@bruisley709
6 жыл бұрын
Hey guys I am going to become a reducetarian instead of having 5 steaks a day I will only have 4 oh and I am going to call myself vegan because nobody can be 100% vegan therefore I can call myself vegan. UV approves this message.
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
Bruisley that is not what I heard her say.
@ChristUponus
6 жыл бұрын
Bruisley Precisely.
@carmenmariagarciapascual7767
6 жыл бұрын
Have u even understand the video? Bc I think you haven’t.
@Jay-vz7og
6 жыл бұрын
Did you even see the video?
@superlawman2010
4 жыл бұрын
Reducetarianism is not veganism. The absolute problem with this movement is that a lot of people will get stuck in between because they will feel they are doing enough while in between.
@sithmont
6 жыл бұрын
Vegan gains is ruining veganism for everyone He’s part of the reason I get such bad anxiety about even telling people I’m vegan.
@valken666
6 жыл бұрын
People like him are called "ego-vegans". We should start dividing egoveganism from veganism, and excluding the ego-vegans from the main movement.
@joez3706
6 жыл бұрын
s I feel the same way, it's a shame because I am proud of my choices.
@MattEliteStormIsVegan
6 жыл бұрын
No Unnatural Vegan and Kalel is ruining veganism. Just tell them most vegans are not like him.
@erikrobinson3133
6 жыл бұрын
Wow your afraid to tell people you don't pay others to kill animals. Just because a few people might got offended because they got their feelings hurt.
@sithmont
6 жыл бұрын
erik robinson no, I’m afraid of the ridicule that comes with being vegan bc of it being associated with people who act like cult followers like Richard. I’m afraid of someone thinking me being vegan, or having such a resentment for vegans that they sneak meat into my food as a joke. And it’s not like I’m gonna order meat just bc I’m afraid to say the word vegan, it’s just that the word vegan is now so hated.
@amberrichards2778
5 жыл бұрын
One person less eating a burger is great for veganism. As a non-vegan, the whole "all or nothing" mentality doesn't make the movement any more appealing. I can't eat any nuts, I'm deathly allergic. Someone telling me that I'm hurting animals by only eating free meat and buying eggs certainly doesn't make me want to stop eating eggs. Love ur videos, lady! Have a nice day : )
@bunnyrabbitsrkewl
6 жыл бұрын
I don't like the way VG delivers his message but to be fair you did take his argument OOC. He didn't say he's against reducitarianism; he said he's against calling yourself vegan if you use animal products.
@mickybyrne60
6 жыл бұрын
lymo Then why is his video completely slating Kalel's character? It's immature.
@bunnyrabbitsrkewl
6 жыл бұрын
Everlong Raider because she lied & said she was vegan for years & years, preached about veganism, even talked shit about nonvegans, when shes no better than them
@responsiblelobster5223
6 жыл бұрын
Im reducitarian because im recovering from an eating disorder and dont want to cause a relapse ( which going vegan encouraged a couple of years ago) and I live in a country where refusing food would ruin employment opertunities for myself and there isn't a lot of vegan food available when dinning with cowokers. I also rely on 4 medications , 2 containing animal products, and that's something required for a standard of living ... I pay more for vegan supplements because it's something that i CAN easily do and I eat vegan about 70% of the time and aim to go fully vegan when i am in a place in my life where it would be practical This is still improvement on eating meat everyday for atleast 2 meals like most people and the fact that people devalue people's effort , people who are allies , is just harmful to the entire movement. Im prepared for people questioning me and shitting on me but I'm making an effort and personally, im proud of that.
@brem4730
6 жыл бұрын
I believe he has anger management issues proven through his need to consistently name call after giving his argument. I do find both of you intelligent and entertaining. Stinks that there just can’t be live intellectual debate, instead of all this back and forth.
@Lynsey17
6 жыл бұрын
His backlog had videos where he himself acknowledges he has an anger issue (though he doesn't really take full responsibility for it and blames a lot of it on his upbringing). His vlogs are mostly him calling people idiots, morons, and the "r" word. His anger is not related to his "beliefs", anyone he interacts with that annoys him in the slightest gets the vitriol too.
@brem4730
6 жыл бұрын
Lynsey17 I can see this given that he has a strong distaste for most humans in general. I hope he seeks help in the future for his own mental state and finds some peace. It’s a shame because he seems to have great logical arguments, but they are often overshadowed by his condition and frustrations. On the bright side it’s getting him the views he wants.
@RekitRachel
6 жыл бұрын
Ive been Vegetarian or as you would say reduceterian for 4 years because of Kalel. I wish I could say I'm 90% vegan but I can't because of the Stigma. I really disagree with you when you say Kalel isnt a real or full vegan. Kalel is and should still be considered a full vegan even though she has some cruxes. Being full vegan IS unrealistic for most people so why create a stigma if you want a change? Not everyone wants to be fully Vegan, there no reason to frown upon it at all.
@josephineblum5506
6 жыл бұрын
This should be a series. "Vegan Gains Doesn't Understand..."
@PhoenixRising87
6 жыл бұрын
You could make an entire saga of videos about the things Richard doesn't understand...but we've all got lives to lead.
@hugomarquez3189
2 жыл бұрын
I was a reducitarian before I became a vegan, so I do think it can be a good stepping stone, or even a good place to be for some. At the end of the day, why are we vegan if not to help reduce the consumption of meat and animal products? None of us can end animal suffering on our own, we are only 1 out of 7 billion people. The most we can do is contribute to the reduction of the consumption. That’s the practical effect we have, and that’s what reducitarians do as well, albeit to a lesser degree. We should be welcoming everyone at this point, since we are still a very small minority.
@sourgummiez
4 жыл бұрын
Your perspective on this has changed my life. I am more calm and patient with myself. Thank you.
@koto777
6 жыл бұрын
I don't think Richards point is if you're not vegan F off I think his point is if you're not vegan don't say you're vegan
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