This is an unfortunate part of life in many areas. A lot of people are just ignorant, happy to be so, and completely unreasonable when it comes to their own perceived worth. If I don't know about something, I tend to attempt to learn what I can in the time I can manage, and/or I defer in good faith to those who have more experience than I do. With a caveat of critical thinking that I don't blindly assume everyone knows what they're doing just because they say so - context depending. The point is that growing up, I undoubtedly had selfish and arrogant presuppositions about the world. And likely I still do in some areas I might not be fully conscious about, but this is something I learned very early on when being on the receiving end as a child. Because of this I always attempted, going forward, to deal with others in good faith because of this controversial idea that others are people too. The world we've built around ourselves as a species is an incredibly complex mesh of different technologies, systems, processes, and methods. Even jobs considered of the lowest status contain lots of stress and are part of a framework of connected activities that those of us not in that industry, likely know very little about. Trying to comprehend everything all at once will likely only result in a complete blowout for even a very intelligent person. But ultimately, it comes down to the same old lesson: Treat people as people rather than things put on the earth for your ego-centric gratification. Be humble, be aware, be grateful and give people the benefit of the doubt when you don't understand or know about the context in which they are operating. It's great that you made this video, but tragic that you needed to.
@SadFace201
3 жыл бұрын
This needs to be pinned. These are the life lessons that people should be teaching each other.
@gingermachinimano1
3 жыл бұрын
Respect
@thebombspayloadisexposed
3 жыл бұрын
Your comment is very important for people to see. It's the truth.
@jkruse05
3 жыл бұрын
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov I heard this quote sometime in high school. I can't say it's kept me from acting in such a way, but if nothing else it reminds me to admit when I don't know something.
@TheSkaOreo
3 жыл бұрын
@@jkruse05 It'sa great way at practicing restraint. It's okay to admit that you don't know something. And that's fine! But it's up to you to do the work and learn and try to figure things out. The problem with American culture is that we view being told that "we're wrong" as admittance of weakness. So rather than think things out, we yell and scream and shout over other people to "win" rather than learn. The hyper partison nature politics has made that even worse.
@herissonanonyme1597
3 жыл бұрын
As a former Ghost Recon Breakpoint designer for 3 years, I can testify how painful is the struggle between the community expectation, the marketing, the creative direction, the brand direction, the technical constraints, and finally your design expertise. This is a permanent fight against multiple invisible enemies. On top of all those elements, come the business and financial constraints, because any company has to be accountable for the shareholders, publisher, or bank loan in the end. So yeah, sometimes even if all the experts in the development team are saying that it's too soon to launch the game, the company is doing it anyway for financial planning reasons.
@nullcase404
3 жыл бұрын
I cant imagine myself working on a legendary series that aimed for a different direction or tried to be closer to the series principles and also under time constraints my respects man as a dev and also a ghost recon fan since the first one back on PC
@derekmensch3601
3 жыл бұрын
I always hated this because I can see where the designers and developers were trying to go with Breakpoint. But it seemed like they never had the time to finish. I love the game personally its me and my buddy's favorite game to play together. But I feel like there was too much to be added and not enough time to add it
@davidroudebush6947
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your work on such a great game that doesn’t deserve the hate it got
@Njin8492
3 жыл бұрын
I think publishers need to restructure their road maps. They need to rethink and discuss with their developers the actual timeline or duration that these games need in order to be "finished" and the two need to agree with each other. If the dev says this needs 5years then the publisher will then analyze if the budget can hold it for 5 years. They will come to a point that they will have the exact figures and numbers that they both agree with. In the end, this just needs to be a give and take. Publishers need to hear what devs need to say and vice versa.
@NeoTechni
3 жыл бұрын
As a Ghost Recon Wildlands lover, I hated that Breakpoint removed the things I found most fun about Wildlands. I LOVED the finger of god drone+AI partners. Breakpoint removed both. I hate that devs keep removing the things I find most fun. Farcry removed radio towers. FarCry and AssCreed removed the minimap cause it was too effective at it's job. Dumb reason to remove them.
@AlienSphinkter
3 жыл бұрын
This is why Bungie’s Vidocs for the halo games were always so compelling, we got to see insight into the actual development process, even if it was a quick look at wire models on an animator’s screen.
@AIandGames
3 жыл бұрын
Bungie also gave a lot of *very good* developer talks back in their Halo days. Hopefully having parted ways from Activision we can see some more of that again.
@spyczech
3 жыл бұрын
Their vidoc videos on the limited and legendary editions of the old games were super important in helping me decide whether or not to enter games. The depiction of the crunch specifically was eye opening to me and helped me to me make an informed career choice as a teenager; that is to avoid corporate game dev career but focus on personal projects and academic pursuits. I don't think I would've been able to make that decision without seeing people sleeping at their desks and half jokingly talking about hardly ever seeing their family due to pressure from Microsoft in those Vidocs
@therupoe
3 жыл бұрын
Also similar, the dev commentary in Valve games. I loved hearing about their design choices and learning about the game's evolution.
@MadMaxBLD
3 жыл бұрын
Bungie still does vidocs for Destiny. My impression though is that these are more about marketing than actual behind-the-scenes information. It takes a third party like Noclip to actually get developers to say something about how their games were made.
@Transformers217
3 жыл бұрын
They’re documentaries were the best, before big business took over and made corporate documentaries talking about how amazing everything is. LOL
@snakedogman
3 жыл бұрын
It would be nice if more games featured "behind the scenes" features just like when you're buying a DVD or Bluray. But I guess even that is going out of fashion quickly with the advent of streaming.
@AIandGames
3 жыл бұрын
I recently noticed that Disney+ actually puts trailers/interviews/gag reels in with a lot of their movies. That was a pleasant surprise.
@Cosmitzian
3 жыл бұрын
I honestly have no idea why New Game Plus types of games don't just start adding in tidbids of game dev commentary throughout the experience. Or Roguelikes taking advantage of the multiple replayability of the medium to tell the stories of how they were made live through the process.
@duuqnd
3 жыл бұрын
More devs need to borrow Valve's commentary node system. If I ever work on a commercial game I'd push hard for it.
@StayFractalesque
3 жыл бұрын
good idea, and there are plenty of channels on youtube who do just that, NoClip being my favorite.. check them out!
@jovialgames
3 жыл бұрын
The only game i can think of doing that is Klei's Mark of the ninja that had developer commentary in the levels that you can enable and interact with that talks about various things like art direction, the tech behind the sound recognition etc. Actually, Larian's Divinity 2 (not original sin) imcluded a pdf talking about the road to release and a lot of behind the scenes stuff.
@THEMithrandir09
3 жыл бұрын
I am also a software developer, and I must say 90% of projects that go bad do so because of management. Either our own, when the manager/sales rep promises something we cannot do/finish in the allotted time, or if the customer doesn't know what they need/want or keeps submitting change requests. Even as an outsider to the gaming industry I can totally see many of the same issues at work.
@Siduron
Жыл бұрын
Management: So we've got this feature in our software right? Developer: Nope Management: Oh, I just sold it to a client. How much work is it to build? Developer: At least a few days Management: Can you do it in half? And that's the story of my life about how broken software gets released.
@Sir.Craze-
3 жыл бұрын
"and for some reason, known only to the construction team, it's on fire!" My god... That's just about as smile cracking funny as is beautifully accurate from what I've seen in my extremely short time yet.
@spyczech
3 жыл бұрын
I thought back to Bungie talking about how that E3 demo for Halo 2 had to very very carefully played, because in cases if you walked a meter out of the path for the demo the game would crash and the super powered dev units would melt!
@Dohaveaplum
2 жыл бұрын
I came down looking for this comment so I could give it a thumbs up.
@TevorTheThird
3 жыл бұрын
One thing that bugs me, in general not about this video, is the idea of a subject being too complicated, hard to understand or requiring specific prerequisite knowledge to parse and coming to the conclusion of then explicitly not talking about it. "You wouldn't understand so I'm not going to bother trying to explain it." This goes way beyond videogames and is a general flaw in how people deal with one another. For games though; I'm not going to to understand your GDC talk any more or less by not watching it. That's crazy. By communicating the information plainly, even if you're cracking wise behind the scenes about how the dummies will never understand it, at least it's out there. Someone can engage with it, not understand it, then choose to further engage with it and learn what it is they don't understand. That's what bugs me I think. When you decide for someone else that something is beyond them, so keep it secret or removed from their sphere, you rob them of that first step to recognizing that deficiency and correcting it. Someone growing up in a flat earther cult, told from infancy the "way things are", never gets the opportunity to get out if no one bothers telling them the world ain't flat. You write them off as "Not worth the time explaining the truth too" so they don't get that chance to learn. A weird comparison but I do so love hyperbolic examples :p Also, for everyone who won't understand the super technical minutia there are A TON of people who will. Again it's better to put out the correct information, even if only 1 in 10, or worse, of the audience understands it. In this instance the added benefit is that *some people* are definitely more informed and can help permeate that reality when they see misinformation being spread later. There's no benefit to holding back truth and facts. I get publishers are scarred that they might make people feel dumb and that will somehow translate to less copies sold(?) but I have zero sympathy for such a dumb concern. Informational availability is always the better path. Let people decide if they want to engage with it and, god forbid, educate themselves on what they don't understand.
@Quenlin
3 жыл бұрын
You should never trust anyone who backs down or changes the subject when pressed on a subject's details. The most common excuses from people is "It's a sensitive subject" or "It's rude to talk about it", which in reality means "I would punch you for questioning me if I could get away with it".
@PsychadelicoDuck
3 жыл бұрын
*cough* Covid *cough*
@SadFace201
3 жыл бұрын
In science, every researcher is expected to be able to do an elevator pitch that can succinctly describe your work to a lay person in a format that they can understand. While GDC is a developer conference targeted at other developers and not lay people, the video suggests to me that this isn't a heavily emphasized skill for developers (which I think it should be since this entire video is talking about a lack of awareness in the audience). The video also indicates that the industry does not emphasize these outlets to begin with as developer commentaries are rare and interviews with news reporters are very guarded.
@AIandGames
3 жыл бұрын
Very valid point. I think about this a lot when writing an episode of the main show (and gave it a lot of consideration during my previous life as a lecturer) I trust that my audience are smart people in their own right, they just don't have the perspective that I do. So for me, the big challenge is in reframing complicated subjects into a manner that is more digestible but without treating you all like idiots, because not only is that not my intent, but I will come across as arrogant and out of touch. One of the most sobering realisations of completing my Ph.D. (over 10 years ago now) was despite how much I knew about my subject, I knew very little about *everything else*. So I really value people who help me learn more about their perspectives and this channel is effectively my way of paying that forward.
@TevorTheThird
3 жыл бұрын
@@AIandGames You're very successful in that regard, so no worries there. I think so at least. Very digestible for a layman.
@ruairihair
3 жыл бұрын
I look forward to WhatCulture's top 10 video on how discourse in gaming industry is broken.
@adamantium9550
3 жыл бұрын
Discussing video games in general has gotten really depressing in the past few years. Especially due to social media, it's so easy to spread misinformation and superficial knowledge, people who don't know any better take that as a fact and support a toxic and offensive behavior. Higher ups and studio leaders meanwhile don't know how to run video game development in a healthy and efficient way, while focusing on making profit as soon as possible. Which leads to disappointment from players as well as developers who worked hard on a game. Just look at Bioware: So much effort and time wasted! Nobody won anything there, except the higher-ups who made a lot of money...
@commanderbale
3 жыл бұрын
@GiRayne I mean go to any reddit or twitter Community and none of that is true. From Destiny to COD to Cyberpunk to games people loved like the Division it's all hate and entitlement. Never how could we fix this but instead you fixed it wrong or just fix it refusing to see the work that goes into it and that if they just did a simple fix they'd still get hated on. And I think all the death threats at CD Red also proves this. If you can't critique a game without throwing out death threats then something's wrong.
@LJStability
3 жыл бұрын
A good analogy is publishing a scientific article's results without providing the methods and saying, "It's magic, you need to enjoy the experience"
@LJStability
3 жыл бұрын
@@mnm1273 I understand. Especially if your field is very technical, like quantum computing or protein modeling, that makes sense. But there are ways to at least give a broad overview for the in presentations or in publications to provide reasoning for using certain techniques. If nothing else, it can people at least a superficial appreciation for what goes involved in your work. I recently gave my doctoral dissertation and that was a sentiment I received from family. They may not understand all the details but at least hearing people talk about the effort involved in different experiments or analysis provides a greater sense of the technical and professional achievements of acquiring and analyzing data. This could be the same for game development. Even CD Project Red had their computer scientists have a presentation on their computer modeling and programing for developing how a character spoke in different languages. I didn't necessarily understand every detail but it do show me how impressive their work was in getting their result. This is why it's tragic that games like Cyberpunk release before they are ready. It hurts the people who spent long hours working on very technical projects. If nothing else, it helps shift the focus on the higher management ruining the good work that developers provide for their consumers
@chrisc7265
3 жыл бұрын
this is not a good analogy, because understanding a scientific paper's process is key to its function. If one doesn't know the methodology, the result is useless. art, on the other hand, should (often by necessity) be experienced by the audience without full (or any) knowledge of its creation. Videogames add an additional tech layer that is beyond a single person's understanding (in the case of a AAA game) --- even if the audience had the desire to dedicate their life to fully understanding the technical side, they'd probably have trouble doing so (luckily they don't need to in order to enjoy the game).
@anonym1504
3 жыл бұрын
As TB said pre-ordering needs to die.
@cryptoprocta
3 жыл бұрын
happy to see the return of completed demos vs early release
@WaddleDee105
3 жыл бұрын
Pre-ordering really sucks but TB supported Gamergate when it started despite it being blatantly obvious that it was a hate campaign so I wouldn't have listened to him for anything of worth.
@Zebrahead519
3 жыл бұрын
@@WaddleDee105 It is actually possible for people to be right about one thing, and wrong about another
@WaddleDee105
3 жыл бұрын
@Chris You're the one that seems offended. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@daddysempaichan
3 жыл бұрын
@@Zebrahead519 After all, everyone's human and can make mistakes.
@tonypajamas7773
3 жыл бұрын
Make developer commentaries commonplace.
@tate_mioton
3 жыл бұрын
It's hard to keep in mind everything said in the video, but I think you missed or glossed over a piece of the problem: the resentment that this system has caused in not only players, but also developers and journalists. Everyone's preemptively attacking each other because of the years of distrust.
@Dwavenhobble
3 жыл бұрын
Because there have been bad actors in all the areas and generally they're not the ones who end up facing most of the attacks. They slink away back into the shadows and throw the odd barb at others to stir the pot more
@PsychadelicoDuck
3 жыл бұрын
@@Dwavenhobble Or are just plain untouchable. You can't appeal your boss, not in the current culture.
@levyroth
3 жыл бұрын
Gaming journalism is basically dead. This coming from someone who collected gaming magazines in my youth, hundreds of them from many outlets. I even briefly wanted to go into tech/gaming journalism in my teens and even got an internship. But as things stand nowadys, I would only burn everything to the ground. The Internet ruined the world more than it improved it.
@lordomacron3719
3 жыл бұрын
well to me Journalism is business and they are in the business of selling stories regardless if there are true or not the only thing that matters is that they sell. (or maybe I think that because I am British and grew up to the British newspapers to whom the truth is seen as something that is not required at all)
@15redleg
3 жыл бұрын
@@lordomacron3719 And people wonder why talking about Ethics in Journalism is something that needs to be brought up in Media and Gaming Media. Lying and being untruthful is not ethical at all and just causes more people to argue against it, which them, makes people look toxic as two sides fight, further leading to an even bigger flood for arguments. For me, I don't belive any media, here in England, and definitely not anything from America. They all lie and all would slander you if it meant they could get a few extra clicks on an article, then later, delete it and "Apologise" when they get called out on.
@pikaboy199
3 жыл бұрын
I think that knowing how games are made has made me appreciate and enjoy them more. I find it's the same with films too.
@Jupa
3 жыл бұрын
likewise, thats why cyberpunk 2077 release didnt offend me as much as it lit a fire on the ass on so many people. Yes they fucked up, but let's focus on going forward ey? Well, fuck that - as the audience would rather say. This is a growing and rapidly developing market. The teething issues are endless. Gamers have no concept of this. They are just, too entitled. I'm sorry but its true. If they weren't then they would have known more about game development and the industry of gaming business. I've been called a CDProjekt bootlicker for saying RDR2 is a buggy mess. That's the emotions of this entitled uninformed audience. I exclusively play RDR2 and haven't bothered touching my £50 install of CB77 since install. I've been flamed at for stating the same opinions as this video endlessly. So im glad somebody of some credit and value to their public name is finally saying something about it.
@humblehive6502
3 жыл бұрын
Hearing that dan houser quote reminded me of the magic in the industry like “bioware magic” which is getting your zero hour contract employees to work 80 hours or getting none
@Cosmitzian
3 жыл бұрын
The eyes in the back of the head thing i remember reading in a Gamasutra article. But in any case, we need a hell of a lot more Noclip's, video game dev commentaries over playthroughs and generally less intrusive and predatory marketing. And in the end we need more educated gamers. It kills me to still see people confusing publishers and developers together, and that perfectly encapsulates how much they know of the makers and the industry they're buying the media from. We have drilled down and we scrutinize bio foods and the chain of where the chicken gets made and processed befure turning into nuggets, and we scutinize who makes our clothes and who grows our cocoa or makes our phones, but we're so happy to just consider videogame creation to be 'magic' and ignore the human toll and the trials and tribulations of the medium. I loved reading Blood Sweat and Pixels specifically for the gritty look at the process of these troubled games, but that's just me.
@AIandGames
3 жыл бұрын
It's been almost a year since the last Design Dive episode, and boy did I pick a topic to come back with. I guess if you ever wondered what the Jimquisition would sound like with a Scottish accent, I've got you covered.
@BooJamesooB
3 жыл бұрын
Have you ever looked at the AI in Rainworld?
@SirHirnschaden
3 жыл бұрын
I'm happy that ur back :D
@nsalegit9482
3 жыл бұрын
It's okay. Glad to see more than just james stephanie sterling banging this drum. As to the divergence of content, I guess you can just say that this video was Born Different from some of the others on the channel.
@HateSpeechMoreLikeBasedSpeech
3 жыл бұрын
I don't want the Jimquisition in any accent, let alone a Scottish one. Deeply ironic, considering this video is about toxicity and the sad state of games discourse...
@iller3
3 жыл бұрын
I think you completely glazed over and omitted the most important detail of all. ...WHO actually fixes MOST of these Disasters? ... c'mon .. you can say it. We all know the real answer: It's the Modders. It's the people who stuck around as the Janitors long after the parades and Suits and even the Designers themselves all clocked out. Stop trying to Lionize lazy Developers by saying we the player just don't understand. WE have already Democratized our own Design processes!
@callumg3330
3 жыл бұрын
People need to emotionally regulate. Any time a game is hyped up for a while people get expectations that are beyond that of a video game and then get angry when it doesn’t meet them, they do this every time.
@SM-or1wo
3 жыл бұрын
It is kind of the job of marketing to prevent that from happening...
@mravg79
3 жыл бұрын
Hype is one thing. I get how the software processes work, how much work is put into it. But as a customer I do not have to know how the process work. I pay for the license and expect software to work. So due to this even though I know how terrible project handling might be (from experience). And I have a lot of sympathy for people working in the r&d of a software company. As a customer if the product does not meet my expectations I will most probably voice my disappointment. And to be fair many games I played was far from perfect but I could appreciate the work and the final outcome. Have a nice time gaming!
@lcmiracle
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah right, it's not the fault of multi-million businesses with multi-billion conglomerate owners pushing hype onto suspicable players, conditioned for more than a decade to react to the slightest hint of shit in a game as massive hype, it's the players who are only the way they are because the businesses benefit from it. Fuck you. You are the problem -- you are what's wrong with gamers.
@PerishingPurplePulsar
3 жыл бұрын
Yea, after No Man's Sky I stopped letting myself get overhyped for anything, and guess what? Cyberpunk was as good as I expected, Star Citizen never being released doesn't bother me, and I'll be honest Fallout 76 was easily seen as a burning pile of crap from 1000 light years away so it wasn't that hard to not be hyped for it. I haven't had any major videogame dissapointments in years, all thanks to me just stepping back and realizing that I can't expect god themself to have created whatever game I'm anticipating. That doesn't mean I don't get excited for new games, I do, I'm hella hype for BOTW2 but I'm able to control my hype to prevent myself from being let down because of unrealistic expectations
@PerishingPurplePulsar
3 жыл бұрын
@@SM-or1wo Actually marketing's job is to sell the game, how you feel about it afterwards is not their job
@AmyDentata
3 жыл бұрын
Rockstar referring to game dev as "magic made by elves" makes me think we need a Pen and Teller of game dev
@GaiLuron578
3 жыл бұрын
I think it's a dishonest to pretend that people got a good understanding of how other cultural industries are working. For example official movies making-of depict a very sanitised version of the reality. I mean, just look at your example with Avengers "bloopers" with the actors dancing. Does anyone believe this is representative of a movie set ? This is obviously some highly curated marketing material. I've been an extra on some movies, from small productions to huge blockbuster, and when I talk about that to people, they always have a very fantasized vision of how it must be. The truth is you can't imagine how slow, tedious and boring a movie shooting is. And I have barely a very vague idea of how the music or book industry might work, despite "consuming" those on a daily basis. So no, I don't think the video game industry is really different in that regard. If you want my opinion, the difference with public reaction has very little to do with industry, and everything to do with how it is "consumed" (no one keep watching a movie or reading a book for several months in a row, and these media can't really change after being released), and the target audience (people who are familiar with new technology and so are more likely to be on any online social platform ready to type some stupid comments).
@lordmalal
3 жыл бұрын
100%. Shame that he just ignored this comment.
@FelipeF78
3 жыл бұрын
I love when games have model viewers or conceptual art galleries, like RE2 Remake. Sony also made some behind-the-scenes videos about GOW, Bloodborne, and SotC Remake, but such content is indeed way too rare, even though I bet people would pay extra for it.
@icarusgaming6269
3 жыл бұрын
In the age of 2.0 games, art doesn't have to be abandoned. Now it can be patched. Following the fan outrage of a broken game's launch, some start to claim authority over what issues need to be addressed and how to do so, despite having zero knowledge of development. Sometimes they're right. So executives give the burden of decision making to the fans since they failed so spectacularly to do their job in the first place. Now the roles are reversed: Fans are instructing developers on what changes or additions to make, and if you thought executives were bad at making decisions, just wait until you see how disorganized and ill-informed player feedback is. Some of them don't understand the systems they're criticizing. Some of them never interact with entire parts of the game that need work. Some of them look past glaring issues to prioritize their own personal fantasy of what they want from the game. Any combination thereof can apply, don't groups are more vocal than others, devs don't know which ones to listen to, infighting breaks out, people leave the community entirely, and the whole system collapses under its own weight. Ghost Recon: Breakpoint is in the latter phases this process now. The subreddit is filled with cosmetic nitpicking and the appointed Delta Company community managers are inundated with feedback of all types, with no idea how to report it back to Ubisoft Paris. The whole idea is a failure just waiting to split in two
@Yotrymp
3 жыл бұрын
Games used to ship "finished" before online connections were standard. Now that everything is online, I guess it's natural that day one updates are now normal.
@richardtickler8555
3 жыл бұрын
the rockstar quote is pretty chilling now that information about how they treat employees
@HSnake5
3 жыл бұрын
What world do you live in that journalists, in gaming no less, hold developers and/or publishers accountable for subpar practices *before* any public outcry from consumers? Or that they have any integrity whatsoever?
@BENuggets12
3 жыл бұрын
@@muckdriver well said.
@aromardu
3 жыл бұрын
@@muckdriver I just laughed when 20 articles on 20 different gaming "news" sites all made the same "GAMERS ARE TOXIC MANBABIES" article on the same day, in response to the articles about game developers colluding with journalists to get good publicity. It's so transparent what's going on behind the scenes, yet most non-gaming media with no understanding of the business nor of the relationships that exist that should maybe be owned up to, kept reusing the same "GAMERS ARE TOXIC MANBABIES" narrative for the next 5 years. They don't even bother doing investigative journalism. If you want readers to remain respectful and take your work seriously, do actual investigations.
@ericvcod2133
3 жыл бұрын
@@muckdriver buddy, there wasn't just RACISTS and SEXISTS, people were doxxed, there were death threats to this columnists, harassment campaigns and such, it doesn't matter what was "most people's intentions", buy and large that was what gamer gate accomplished. Also, journalists don't hold anyone accountable, all they do is inform and investigate (jason schreier is a good recent exemple). It's usually governments and regulatory boards like the ESRB (joke) that hold anyone accountable. If gamergate was at all concerned with ethics maybe the should've focused on this organizations and not journalists that the didn't like (which is the real reason behind the whole ethics bullshit).
@WhompingWalrus
3 жыл бұрын
The industry needs to stop falsely advertising their games because it's profitable in the end. It's not the developers' faults. It's not the consumers' faults for believing dev companies (or for not being engineers themselves, which is a batshit take). We need federal oversight to actually prosecute false advertising for what it is so that the industry's PR and executive people are actually incentivized to either be honest and clear with consumers, or to say nothing at all.
@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598
3 жыл бұрын
While I agree with the sentiment of this video and find it admirable that you try to avoid drama by being careful with your wording and mentioning specific people, games or companies, I think it regrettably leads to this video being too vague and hard to follow. While I had an idea what issues you were alluding to (and even then, I'm not even sure I have it right), I think being more specific would have made it easier to understand for most people.
@AzureForge
3 жыл бұрын
This helps spell out what I've felt for years. When a "Bug" gets massed publicity it is always why was this not fixed and not how can this be fixed. That right there exemplifies the knowledge gap between publisher and consumer like the video says.
@Croz89
3 жыл бұрын
I think it depends on the severity. Bugs that make the game unplayable and waste the effort of players rightly make gamers angry, it's a sign of sloppy QA. Sometimes mountains do get made out of molehill bugs though, little things that don't majorly impact the experience.
@ChampHello
2 жыл бұрын
I think consumers can be as upset as they like about bugs if they have no way to return the product.
@danielwalley6554
3 жыл бұрын
Nice to hear someone say it, especially in the shadow of Cyberpunk. As a developer playing that game I've only been able to marvel at how much they built, how detailed it all is - breathtaking even. Not the bugs and faults. Hell, as a developer I still find it amazing such games even get completed in the first place.
@AlexGoldring
3 жыл бұрын
Hey Tommy, really nice summary overall. As someone who's a part of the industry as well as an avid gamer - I agree with almost everything. One point I feel a bit sad about is the "Gamer Gate" sentiment, while I believe that there have been a lot of bad actors, there were many valid points that ended up being buried with that sentiment of "X-ism", "harassment" etc. In many ways, what you were talking about is what "Gamer Gate" was for a lot of people, including myself - a disconnect between the industry and the consumers.
@AlexGoldring
3 жыл бұрын
@@nustada I believe that there were people who took their own agenda into it and used it to just be unkind to others. It's sad to see that most people looking from outside in, now think that it was all about those "bad actors" and their agenda. There are reasons to be angry and reasons to be upset, but after all these years I think "sad" is most appropriate in my case. Sad that smart people on both sides can't sit down together and talk about it. We're all human, yet we so often fail to understand one another, intentionally or not.
@roadent217
3 жыл бұрын
@@nustada To be fair to the anti-Gamergate crowd, though, I reframed my understanding of the situation in 2019 along the lines of perceiving Gamergate, and especially its predecessors, Five Guys, as basically being a 4chan-led attempt at proto-Cancel Culture. I hate Cancel Culture. Therefore, despite how despicable and hypocritical Zoe Quinn and some of the anti-Gamergaters turned out to be, Gamergate was still morally pointless at best (if it were to not do anything, since their opponents dug in their heels and wouldn't budge), or spiteful and toxic at worst (if it managed to ruin (even "evil") people's careers and livelihoods).
@lazykitty8876
3 жыл бұрын
@@roadent217 I disagree. Media enjoys certain privileges under the law, those privileges come with an acceptance of certain standards. If I read a magazine claiming to tell me about the state video games market, I would like to know if the author has a strong conflict of interest. Whomever is having whatever relationship with anyone is just details. The broader picture is corruption, and I think that it would be better to focus on that, I believe we are on of same opinion there. With respect to careers and livelihoods, I believe that if you're someone who's operating under false pretense and you inform my opinion - I would like for you to take responsibility for this, up to and including losing your career and livelihood, just like everyone else in every other field. Would you think it's okay for a teacher to beat your child if they do it only sometimes? Would you want them to keep their career afterwards? How about if you get a game from company X and there's a virus bundled into the game's code, would you say that we should forgive and forget? There are consequences to breaking professional contracts, both written and implied, and I think that's fine.
@sibanbgd100
2 жыл бұрын
I think this problem goes beyond Games>Art>Politics> all the way to the philosophy of our world. Information information information. People need to study for years to become experts in anything and all the while they are bombarded by choices of food, music, theaters, movies, friend groups, social circles, social media, marketing... FREEDOM. It is just suffocating to be given a free choice of everything, but to make an educated choice you have to know so much while avoiding propaganda, lies, and just unintentional misinformation. You take into account that people around you don't know something and instead of telling the truth you give the simplified version. Journalists representing scientific and artistic work to the public, echo chambers of people running from negative feedback... It's a cacophony of information. After you take a glimpse at the colossal amount of work anything takes to be done right or fixed (e.g. global warming, video game, economy, political landscape, ethnic tensions, busted education systems...), all that you want to say and believe is that it will be better, that someone else will do it and that it will all blow over without your direct and painstaking involvement. Even if you decide to contribute you can make a mistake and even if you don't it's grinding to feel like a drop in the bucket of a world whose size you can't even comprehend e.g. 8 000 000 000 people looks like a number but feels like an abstract concept. Finding the truth among misinformation and finding out how to filter all the noise is our task now.
@aidancoutts2341
3 жыл бұрын
When companies promise the moon, someone who knows how games are made understands exactly what is realistic and what is bs. Most people have no idea how much work went into any game. Including the executives and PR team that try to sell them. Let the actual people who make the games tell you what it will be like (the devs)
@lordomacron3719
3 жыл бұрын
er well, that does not always work out well I site Hello Games and No Man Sky Shaun Murry A game dev, not a PR man, also made the mistake of raising ppls expectations beyond reasonable limits.
@Wylie288
3 жыл бұрын
@@lordomacron3719 That and he clearly stated what wouldn't be at launch. Its 100% gamers fault they ignored those things. In fact. 6 months before launch every single NMS youtube video, steam forum post, reddit post was full of educated people disproving everyones MP will be at launch claims. 6 months before launch. No one listended. Sean Murray isn't to blame for his games dumbass community.
@Wylie288
3 жыл бұрын
@@lordomacron3719 That and he clearly stated what wouldn't be at launch. Its 100% gamers fault they ignored those things. In fact. 6 months before launch every single NMS youtube video, steam forum post, reddit post was full of educated people disproving everyones MP will be at launch claims. 6 months before launch. No one listended. Sean Murray isn't to blame for his games dumbass community.
@lordomacron3719
3 жыл бұрын
@@Wylie288 he was not comfortable in interviews gave ambiguous statements because he did not know what to say he had no media training and Intended or otherwise he did inflate expectations. Yes, ppl made too many poorly worded statements but they still need those statements to work off. What I am saying is that throwing a lifelong Game dev in front of the camera with no prep on how the media work might not work out well that is all.
@aidancoutts2341
3 жыл бұрын
My main point is that the developers progress should inform the hype, not the fucking marketing team. Because the marketing team don't MAKE the godamn product they are promising. The process should START with the devs. That's how it used to go back in the day, and it still had some problems but not like today where every second AAA product is some form of scam.
@itsaUSBline
3 жыл бұрын
You know, taking a page from DVDs and Bluray, I think it'd be awesome if games had developer commentary tracks. Like imagine after you've played through a game you really enjoyed, if you could play through it again but with voice-over commentary from the developers at certain points talking about how and why they did certain things. Might not work for every game depending on the structure, but for some games, like more linear narrative focused games, it would work brilliantly.
@roadent217
3 жыл бұрын
You mean like Valve did from Half-Life: Lost Coast onwards? Oh, yeah, I agree - people loved it.
@rsolsjo
3 жыл бұрын
This is a tremendously important and interesting video. Things have shifted so much by now that it is almost completely different altogether. Games were once simply media to be consumed and hopefully enjoyed, by now it is bogged down by hype, streamers, preconceived notions, keyboard warriors and secretive production companies slaving away at titles unfairly. The actual tangiable experience of playing a game seems like the very least important part of the video gaming world by now, and in that sense I'd say it has completely been flipped on its head.
@blazefangaming2678
3 жыл бұрын
The system has been carefully designed and crafted to be the way it is to serve the needs of those at the very top. The result? Every community involved in gaming holds a degree of disdain and distrust for other communities, unwilling to admit they themselves share some of the blame. Journalists get blowback and criticism for daring to be the first ones honest with you or because they made articles based on PR promises that ended up be being false. However, it is also well-known that journalism plays softball with gaming for the most part, because they want the exclusive deals and content for articles and clicks. Publishers do not bribe reviewers with money, but they DO dangle the carrot of behind-the-scenes tidbits in front of them before implying "It would be a shame if you said bad things about us, because then we suddenly wouldn't have the time to invite you to this special little demo we have." And journalists willingly go along with this game because being informative is secondary to generating clicks and revenue. Gamers have put up with the greedy monetization of games as well as the blatant misinformation given for publishers for so long that they are often naturally skeptical of any promise, as they should be. However, there has also been a growing sense of entitlement, a belief among the most hardcore and obsessed of gamers that developers should cater entirely to them, and the game should be based entirely around what the loudest part of the fanbase wants, rather then what the developers may have envisioned. As a writer and creator myself, I have always believed that visions should ultimately come from the artist, not the consumer. PR and marketing teams are often only doing the bidding of the executives, as a means of generating hype to the point that a game is guaranteed not to fail. However, an accomplice is still complicit. They still gladly build games up on promises that they know are unlikely to come to fruition. The result is Cyberpunk 2077. A game that was built almost entirely around hype. people who look back with a pragmatic view will tell you that, aside from the glitches and technical flaws, the game simply cut out a lot of the features that were promised in and failed to implement others in a satisfactory way. But the game was set up to succeed based solely on "Good Faith." Witcher 3 is the new darling of the RPG community, it has become a standard for the genre to live to up to. Fans adore it, peers in the development community praise it. The upper management know they can use this to their advantage. "Coming... when it's ready." "We leave greed to others." CDPR has been positioned as the last beacon of hope amongst a sea of toxicity, and the marketing team get to work convincing players that it's worth buying into the hype because of the success of Witcher 3. Because CDPR are "The good guys". The gaming community spready this belief. CDPR are the heirs of quality gaming, they can be trusted without question. Multiple delays in quick succession towards the end have some suspicious. One delay to an unspecified date would indicate dedication to quality, but 3 quick "hard" dates, each set right before the previous one is ready? Some people realize there is trouble in paradise, that they might be struggling to make this thing actually presentable. But the delusional fanatics vehemently attack anyone that dares to say anything is bad about the game they have yet to even play. Cyberpunk isn't out yet, but the cult already believes it is the game of the decade. One reviewer warns the game can trigger seizures if you have epilepsy, and people disgustingly reply by spamming her with flashing images. Meanwhile, some journalists try to warn of potential disappointment, but most are busy harping on about how the game is "insulting to trans people." These were the same people that said the game insulted Jamaicans because of one gang in the game, even though Jamaicans that were actually interviewed said that they LOVED what they had seen so far. Most sites that actually tried to critique the game were busy trying to claim "This game is offensive" rather than "This game is not what it's cracked up to be, buyer beware." The distrust and resentment grows between all parties, and then the street date hits. It is a DISASTER. Bugs, glitches, constant crashes, unplayable console versions, features and mechanics half-baked or missing entirely. Everyone blames each other, when they fail to realize that they ALL share some of the blame. Gamers were so obsessed with CDPR they already decided the game was untouchable. Journalists were focusing on what demographics THEY thought should be offended rather than looking at the crumbling foundation in front of them and warning gamers. CDPR threw their Q&A team under the bus, even after a call was leaked showing that the leaders knew full well the game wasn't ready. They didn't care, they wanted money. They let everyone be misled; gamers, journalists, even their own shareholders whom they told "It runs surprisingly well on console." This is a cycle that has been created to assure hype generates profit, and the first step towards fixing it is for EVERYONE to take a step back and understand their own contribution towards it, intentional or not.
@trulyinfamous
3 жыл бұрын
I'm glad that I've watched so many documentaries and KZitem videos about game development. That, along with trying to make a game has led me to get more enjoyment out of games. Trying to make a game has also led me have even more respect for game devs. I already had a lot of respect to game devs before that; making games is HARD. It reaches out to so many different skill areas, and everything has to work together perfectly or else it could sour the end product. I feel really bad for devs when a game is released earlier than it should be. Its obvious that Cyberpunk had an absolutely stunning amount of work put into every part of the game. There's so much detail in everything, but being released much, much earlier than it should have led to people unnecessarily hating on them. Its soured their reputation, and if they got to spend as much time as they needed on the game, it might not have been so bad for them.
@REXanadu
3 жыл бұрын
I still remember when the Indiegogo campaign to add Squiggly to Skullgirls first released back in 2013. Almost everyone was complaining about why the addition of a single character in a fighting game could cost over $100k. The founder of Iron Galaxies Dave Lang broke down why the cost was actually very reasonable, going so far as to break down how the money would hypothetically be distributed out to different individuals and stages of development. My first reaction was, "Why did normal players have to practically pay for the privilege to have someone from the game industry explain in great detail how games were financed?" For years, I was looking for more information on how games were made, and the time I get a full breakdown of it, I had to spend money to not only get the game to be made but also practically beg for the information in order to get a straight answer. At the same time, numerous kickstarters were getting released to finance games with stretch goals so low they might as well be asking for nothing. One in particular note was Cryamore, which, at one time during development, had a dev team comprising of Aivi Tran, Mariel Cartwright (who was working on Skullgirls at the time), and a former Naughty Dog executive. That game had a successful campaign, receiving over $300k. That game is still in development, now with only 2 members on staff. None of the excellent members mentioned above are on the project, ever since moving onto better projects - Aivi Tran, most notably, working on the Steven Universe OST. This solidified into my mind this undeniable fact: No one - not even industry veterans - know what it takes to make a game
@Dwavenhobble
3 жыл бұрын
I mean you'd think I don't know games journalists or something would want to explain how games are financed just as an information piece that could keep being brought up again and again. But apparently having people shove Amiibos and controllers up their arses is seen as more valuable to use page space on for a number of games journalism publications.
@REXanadu
3 жыл бұрын
@@Dwavenhobble Doubt that's it. Most journalists 'know' of the information, but aren't allowed to divulge. Still remember an article stating how one journalist spoke to Ken Levine about the Bioshock Infinite E3 demo. Ken Levine stated it was real... only to find out years later it was all smoke and mirrors. I also remember listening to the Cheap Ass Gamers podcast years ago, where they would read out monthly sales chart from a paid service only a select few could even sign up for. The game industry is a perpetuating series of lies, half-truths, and information gatekeeping that only slowed down when game studios realized they needed to plea to their customer base to finance parts of development. I say this, as I don't recall the GDC Vault being open for the public before 2013 - the year of the successful Broken Age Kickstarter campaign
@JohnSmith-ox3gy
3 жыл бұрын
When it is hard to communicate inside the industry between fields it is no wonder why communicating with someone outside is so hard.
@cyberdemon9306
3 жыл бұрын
In a world where any gaming discussion turns into a fire dumpster, videos like this are extremely necessary!! thanks for that man
@Fevir
3 жыл бұрын
Very interesting video. I always found it interesting that many people who have made video games a focal point of their career don't really have any idea how they work or how the industry behind them operate.
@TheVoiceOfChaos
3 жыл бұрын
i am convinced that in this day and age you have to be a developer to understand how hard it is.
@devforfun5618
3 жыл бұрын
@@TheVoiceOfChaos and even then it varies a lot by company, but now that everyone is buying everyone it is becoming the same
@TheJonesChannel11
3 жыл бұрын
Essentially, journalists aren't practising what they are taught by not researching how games are developed, thus, causing a circlejerk/shit tornado of information that the basic human being would believe. This is a great video. Thank you. You should also plug Noodle's video on game development. Aaand you got gamer gate wrong. Great.
@piwi2.046
3 жыл бұрын
A documentary about development of a game, would show another perspective on "how to look at a game". I liked "High Score" for example, it shows there is a lot going on in the gaming industry. The chance of a documentary being made to actually see the development and decisions will most likely never happen.
@TheSkaOreo
3 жыл бұрын
The problem is that there are plenty of documentaries, artices, interviews out there. The problem is is that there's too much of it. This is the problem with the digital age: we are assaulted daily by an onslaught of information, and we have no idea what to do with it. Who do we trust? So we too often rely on hyperactive youtube personalities or click bait to get our attention.
@WaddleDee105
3 жыл бұрын
I remember listening to the unlockable developer commentary tracks in Sly Cooper for each level as a kid and being enthralled by them. The lack of developer behind-the-scenes info is depressing.
@andrewmcclean823
3 жыл бұрын
My favourite memories as a kid were listening to the developer commentary in the orange box. It's how I learned about leading lines and silhouettes.
@daddysempaichan
3 жыл бұрын
I could definitely hear the venom in your voice at the end, and how your talk became more "emotional" there, but hey, we're all human. And like you said, what happend with Cyberpunk 2077 is just sad all around.
@anonimus370
3 жыл бұрын
I still believe that the mistrust towards journalists is well deserved. They often lie/misguide to us to be on good terms with publisher/developer or to push their own personal/political agenda. And journalism as a whole has lost a lot of trust by going the way of yellow journalism .
@alonezlciel
3 жыл бұрын
Building software is like building an invisible house. It is hard. Game software is harder because you have to build both tech and content separately. To make it visible, we copy a concept of Kanban board and sprint from other industries. It is working as an internal communication tool, but it is not easy for a normal audience to digest.
@Mezurashii5
3 жыл бұрын
Not sure what the video is actually meant to convey some of the time. When you talk about "gamers" without narrowing it down, do you mean enthusiasts who try to learn about games but can't or consumers that see games as magical? When you say developers go into technical details that could be misconstrued and thus cannot be shared with people who are not developers in interviews, what kinds of details do you have in mind? When you talk about gamers having their view of game development based on misconceptions, which group of gamers do you have in mind and what misconceptions are you referring to? When you say the videogame discourse is broken, in what way do you mean it is broken? What's the cause, what's the effect? Is it broken because enthusiasts can't get the insight into the dev process they would like to, or is it a problem purely because the wider public gets wrapped up in the hype? Even then, what part of videogame discourse is broken? You're clearly in favour of GDC type conferences, but when you talk about enthusiast communities, you seem to only describe groups of rabid fans, ignoring people who are actually interested in the dev process or just reasonable, including your own viewerbase. Because with how general this video is at times, it sometimes sounds like you're telling us "you're a source of the problem because you're not a game developer and the only way to not be the source of the problem is to be a game developer", which isn't exactly a sentiment worth anyone's time, since all it does is legitimise the state of things you call the problem. I don't think that's the idea, but avoiding giving almost any examples of any of the problematic attitudes, bad actors or even types of communities you're talking about, this is how it can come across.
@insertgoodchannelnamehere
3 жыл бұрын
I feel like a big problem is that journalists and gamers are two separate groups. The people who review games are oftentimes not in tune with the community, or just straight up are just journalists put on a gaming assignment without any actual gaming experience
@asj3419
3 жыл бұрын
@@adlibbed2138 I wonder if this is because the people who watch that type of coverage do not actually want for it to be honest. This is the same crowd that had to be assured that games about apocalypse cults and violent political unrest are in no way making any "political" statements.
@eleccy
3 жыл бұрын
Hmm, did you forget the part where the cultural critics of gaming became political activists and yellow journalists that spent close to 5 years dividing, clickbaiting and smearing in aid of their own open and embraced political bias - how they lionised activists in development and in pressure groups rather than engage with them in an intelligent and interactive way? The culture of critique in gaming is a joke compared to every other art form for this and other reasons. Vaguely gesturing at the "capitalism" and "consumerism" that by the way fuels the entire venture, is sophistry. I didn't find this video very compelling but at least it was an attempt.
@STIR-FRIED-SUBWAY-RAT
3 жыл бұрын
This is why I gave up on game reviews from virtually everyone. I just watch GDC talks for technical stuff or watch long winded analysis to see how differently people interpret the same story or what themes they took away from it. Gaming communities themselves have made me almost hate interacting with others that share my interest.
@STIR-FRIED-SUBWAY-RAT
3 жыл бұрын
@@rockapartie I watch those for his humor more than any interest in playing the games he reviews.
@PinkDawn1308
3 жыл бұрын
I deeply appreciate the fact that you took the time to make this video. The games industry being shrouded in so much secrecy is problematic for a number of reasons, and I feel that's not talked about enough. A little bit more openness and transparency from game developers could go a long way. In my ~2 years working in the games industry, I can't believe how much I've learned that I NEVER could've learned about before working at a game studio. It's frustrating because it's not like most of the stuff I've learned about is top secret, but the people who have the knowledge don't have the means or time to share that knowledge effectively. And I've noticed that other game devs will sometimes give me weird looks when I talk about this, as if the games industry isn't a secretive place and all the stuff they know about it is just common knowledge. It's easy to forget where you came from once you've been in this industry for a long time.
@chillaxboi2109
2 жыл бұрын
You say that as if you are openly told exactly what you eat and how it's been cooked in a restaurant. I get it, secrecy is damaging but also protective. Say you work in a game right now and it becomes a hit. You've made a great documentary to follow it along. Lovely. You got a strong base. 100000 buyers meaning the game has profited 800000 (whichever currency). Okay, now you make a second one. This time you are a lead developer and feature the documentary from top to bottom. The game is harder to make, the mechanics were hard to nail and, unluckily, because the game is bigger it takes longer to explore fully for the QA, takes longer to finish. The sales start well but... A KZitemr has found how to break the game and now you're the center of interrogation. "you've fucked up, it's so clear, how could you miss this?" You take it on the chin and assume losses. Next game you make, love of your life. Best game you've made. Labelled a one hit wonder now so publicity is hard. People are skeptical. Not enough buys, just about enough to float. You see? Cyberpunk had work put into it. Fucked up hard. Developers are not allowed to make mistakes. Especially if you trust them. People leave the studio? "Nobody else can replace them now" CD Projekt is suddenly dead.
@Tysonyar
2 жыл бұрын
This video deserves a lot more views and digestion. I am not a game dev - just a 40+ year player LOL - and I believe this is exactly the reason this video and the position it puts forth needs to be considered by game consumers. I am in awe of games, just the same way I was when I was a kid, and so games still have a lot of "magic" for me. However, I also own a business and understand how difficult it is for different teams within a company to work together successfully. You don't have to understand all the technical specifications of game development in order to evaluate the end product, its limitations, and its triumphs. You just have to be reasonable. The internet is not at all reasonable. I believe that's the primary issue here.
@SadFace201
3 жыл бұрын
12:15 1st - I disagree with the quote and agree with your statement that it dehumanizes the developers 2nd - I'm not a game developer, but from my understanding developers are typically under terrible work conditions due to crunch. The fact that people outside the industry know very little about how games are made and the time investment needed to ship a game means that very few people know enough to care about the work conditions of the developers.
@SianaGearz
3 жыл бұрын
Work conditions shouldn't be a customer's thing to worry about, that's what unions are for! (ohwait)
@mattmorehouse9685
3 жыл бұрын
In my experience while part of it is certainly ignorance, I fear another part is simply the very sin they claim the game companies have; greed. The pundits know that their audience are mainly non game devs who want video games, and so play to their want for more games by making a big stink about how Paradox shouldn't ask for a penny for any of its dlc, and make some noble sounding waffle about consumer rights to back them up. That and I wonder how useful it is to separate stupidity and malice or even if you can. After all, these pundits ping pong between calling EA idiots and a lean mean money making machine and never seem to note the contradiction of being both astoundingly stupid, yet hoodwinking people again and again.
@teahousereloaded
3 жыл бұрын
Marketing in games is selling something that might exist at a certain date maybe, possibly. It's easy to oversell, because you can always point fingers when it goes wrong. Still branding means to build up a brand. What CDPRs marketing did was certainly the opposite.
@kingcookie9485
3 жыл бұрын
this video is criminally underwatched
@shaycray7662
3 жыл бұрын
Overwatched*
@Shadoww2309
3 жыл бұрын
"Ill-informed question begets non-committal response' has to be one of my favourite quotes of all time. Well said, and this problem is at the root not only of this consumer-developer divide, but of all interactions between (relatively) uninformed public and highly qualified experts attempting to communicate.
@WhompingWalrus
3 жыл бұрын
The point of a question is to learn. It's a request to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. Belittling the person asking a question for not already being informed about the topic beforehand - why would they ask the question if they already knew precisely what they were talking about? Why insult someone for asking a question when we can help them to understand what it is they clearly don't, instead? A guaranteed mark of a genuine asshole is when they mock someone for not already knowing something, when they're making an earnest attempt to learn of it.
@roadent217
3 жыл бұрын
@@WhompingWalrus I agree - and then he mocks and hates GamerGate for trying to do the same thing - demand standards for "ethics in videogame journalism", which is basically asking the journalist industry to be more open and accountable. And then they get flamed and smeared for that...
@chrisc7265
3 жыл бұрын
beyond the fact that online communication (where much videogame talk happens) is strained to begin with, I think a lot of this boils down to the marketing technique of involving fans in the production of a game, as opposed to the (now very old) process of inviting them to experience the finished project, as one would a film or novel. early access, pre-order, crowd-funding and so on. fans shouldn't expect anything from a game until its done, and then they should research the game before buying to know what they're getting into. Devs shouldn't get free QA testing from early access or release unfinished games then patch to completion. Publishers shouldn't try to bribe people into gambling their money on a pre-order. and this is down to the fans --- devs want free QA testing and funding for their unfinished product. Publishers want people wasting their money on pre-ordering a game they wouldn't otherwise buy. They have no incentive to change. It's only players who can push this by voting with their dollars.
@goukigod
3 жыл бұрын
One of my biggest bugbears is the use of the term 'developers' as a catch-all for people who created or worked on a game. E.g. 'the developers choose this direction with gameplay' or 'the developers didn't tell a cohesive story'. People often direct their anger or praise toward developers when in many situations it wasn't a developer who was responsible for how something turned out.
@nuclearbeeberman
3 жыл бұрын
In my opinion the Companies selling their products pretty often just with the hype... Also with the graphics and presentation... Actually most AAA Games are sold with their presentation and graphic not with their gameplay.
@EmperorSigismund
3 жыл бұрын
Don't forget branding. EA Sports games only sell because they have brand deals and you can be sure that any game associated with names like Elder Scrolls, Battlefield, Blizzard etc. is going to sell like crack so long as they slap that title front and centre.
@mattmorehouse9685
3 жыл бұрын
@@EmperorSigismund I think a big part of that is the obsession with getting games just as they come out, like they'll rot after one week or something. It's insane and I think really undermines the more layered games, like the stuff Arkane makes, which involve tons of different things you can do, that you probably wouldn't notice on you first time through. There seems to be this obsession with anything new combined with a disdain of waiting that's pushing games towards being the flashy roller-coaster rides people complain every Call of Duty is... but then the majority buy it.
@TimTams_64
3 жыл бұрын
Elitists, playergroups are the worst . Any criticism is deemed as hate. And if a company does anything at all, every bad thing it's done previously seems to be completely forgotten. And they get put on a freaking pedestal everytime.
@AftabMagee
3 жыл бұрын
I didn't hear much here other than it's almost completely the consumer's fault for not knowing how games are made, and yet there's no avenues for consumers to learn. I feel that you're way too easy on developers and putting the entirety of the blame on one end. There are bad practices in development that aren't the player's fault and those were barely dusted on.
@RealAPasz
3 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed this video quite a bit. You've hit many nails on the head. However it's disappointing that even after so many years. There are still people such as yourself who don't seem to actually know what gamergate was about. Granted, you didn't say all that much and there are many facets to gamergate. So I do hope you know more about it then what was let on.
@bernardcz92
3 жыл бұрын
Gamergate was just a cluster fuck of people pretending to care about journalism but in reality, were more concerned about targeting individuals.
@JoshThewonder
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this interesting video essay on video game stuff. As someone with a computer science degree and a few years of professional web dev experience, I know making good video games is difficult because making *any kind* of good software is usually hard. Also, I feel like the modern media landscaped is messed up in a major way so that certain sentiments can get amplified by the cultural zeitgeist to the point where people seem to only regurgitate what they hear others say & think. As mentioned in the video, there can be an echo chamber effect where people continually reinforce their own opinions with confirmation bias stuff. I can only hope culture & society make room for a balanced narrative within modern media that lets people calm down, take a moment and evaluate what they are talking about with a critical yet empathetic eye towards the content they are consuming and the people making said content. Love the great work and look forward to the next thing you make
@F2t0ny
3 жыл бұрын
I -LOVED- unlocking and viewing behind the scenes videos in games. I loved watching the ones in god of war and the ps2 mortal kombat games. I watched the "Raising Kratos" documentary about the new god of war. Absolutely fascinating. There's the interview with the director of Dead Space and he goes on about the difficulty of the tentacle scene and how it helped them develop a very successful development method. Fascinating. Dude seems like an incredible leader.
@TickTock725
3 жыл бұрын
bro you are so underrated this video was so good and I agree with you, I feel like more transparency would help more that it would hurt.
@youngknight5589
3 жыл бұрын
You talk on access to information is pretty common issue I’ve had before it doesn’t help sometimes that some conference websites are shut down and sometimes can be poorly preserved like Ai talks. You also mentioned the legal issues and of course Rockstar tight lipped attitude which is irritating cause it makes it harder to apply what you learned into practice. Sorry for the small rant just something I’ve ran into numerous times. Though i do strongly appreciate the devs that do come out about what goes on in development like programming design and also the cultural side.
@alephkasai9384
3 жыл бұрын
Something that I love about Valve games is the developer commentary modes. It's awesome to see how much work they put into every single aspect of the game from the sound to the background to the music and listening to the devs talking about it with passion is so great. I can just relax and listen to em while enjoying some of my favourite games.
@youngknight5589
3 жыл бұрын
@@alephkasai9384 i like reading about it so i enjoy reading postmortems ir even articles tommy rights the most ive hesrd rockstar be open was gta 3 and streaming(which is what makes it possible to have these seamless open worlds) i would not have known streaming if it wasn’t for those couple articles at least with how my brain functions.
@alephkasai9384
3 жыл бұрын
@@youngknight5589 Was GTA 3 the first game to do that or did other games also do something similar before? Ah also, I always love following indie games. The dev teams of indie games are often way more open and seeing them develop code by code, feature by feature is amazing. I think the first game I followed all the way through was blackwake a relatively simple pirate pvp game. It's not too popular but it is quite awesome.
@youngknight5589
3 жыл бұрын
@@alephkasai9384 idk about first game but its the most popular example of a 3D seamless open world thought you do have devs like insomniac games who talk about how they streamed Spider Man and Sunset Overdrive from disc to memory but again those talks are aimed at people who know what the speaker is talking about. Thankfully the speaker does have pdf forms of these talks. And hes indie devs are especially open especially on youtube and forums
@andriyrudnyk7985
3 жыл бұрын
I've always found Noclip, and Raykevik channels to do an amazing job of this.
@andrewgoodall2183
3 жыл бұрын
I'm 48 years old, gamer most of my life. I get around pretty much all of the issues described in this vid simply by not buying a game until it's been out for a year or two and researching it before I spend. This has the additional advantage of getting the game at a discounted price. Finally, I am discerning about what kind of media I consume (I nearly switched this video off because it's such an opinion piece). I am able to do these things because I'm an actual grown man and not an easily led teenager or a child in adult form. The way people behave never fails to surprise me (it should). Ultimately in this, as in so many things, I blame the consumer. Bad actors can only profit through the permission of the people they are exploiting. Try harder.
@WhompingWalrus
3 жыл бұрын
>Bad actors can only profit through the permission of the people they are exploiting People who do not understand a field are at fault for not knowing better when they're lied to by those within it? How enlightened. & I suppose sweatshop employees are at fault when they're abused by their employers, too? After all, their abusive employers could not abuse their employees without "the permission of the people they are exploiting". And why didn't the slaves just rise up? WE know better! We're built different! You're literally blaming victims for having been abused.
@andrewgoodall2183
3 жыл бұрын
@@WhompingWalrus No I am "literally" not, that's some hyperbole you are adding. Meanwhile, back at the topic - that's just a principle you are spouting. I'm talking about reality. If the world followed my principles nicely then everyone on Earth would be eating decent food, drinking clean water, interacting nicely with their environment and not shitting on each other all the time. But that's not where we are - the marketplace and sellers, no matter what you'd like to think, respond to regulation and the purchasing actions of consumers. It's very apparent that triple-A publishers know how to tread the judicial line or there would be many consumer-related cases by now curbing their actions. It's not happening. This leaves us with but one option to force a change in the practices of said publishers - vote with your wallets. You can go on saying "it's not their fault" and trying to close my argument as much as you like, but the fact remains that unless habits change, triple-A publishers' behaviour will not. I've made my tiny, tiny effort to change people's hearts and minds with my post above through example and, dare I say it, admonishment. What are you doing? Unconstructive Charlie-big-bananas look at me aren't I a wonderful touchy-feely person on the internet oooh oooh oooh, as far as I can tell. Pffft.
@WhompingWalrus
3 жыл бұрын
@@andrewgoodall2183 dude I wrote out a whole thing, but KZitem keeps shadowbanning my response. Seems this is half misunderstanding and half disagreement, but I just put like 45m into making sure my response made sense, and that's worth absolutely nothing now, so I guess good day to you, man. lol
@Marinealver
3 жыл бұрын
FOMO Doesn't affect me.
@WhompingWalrus
3 жыл бұрын
@@rockapartie It's a per-comment thing, rather than my whole user account being flagged, but I have no idea. System's gotta be busted. My comment wasn't even rude, let alone against ToS in some way. I'm 100% positive that if the most touchy human KZitem censor in existence reviewed it manually, they'd have been cool with it. Good-faith bridge building to the max. I notice it tends to happen a lot moreso with longer comments. The longer it is, the more likely the filter is to flag *some* bit of it for some reason because a nazi used those three words in that order six years ago or something, idk, I'm not about to pretend to understand how their filter works lol. You can only tell by using an incognito mode window to try to find your comment while not signed in (and while not using a direct link to the comment itself). It pretends that it's still there when viewing it from my own account or from a direct-to-comment link. Software's hard.
@ryanbrooks3432
3 жыл бұрын
I have found that my enjoyment of games has only increased the more I have learned about how they are made, and how they work. I do wish more games we made without crunch and that developers got more of the credit they deserve
@TheJungaBoon
3 жыл бұрын
I always appreciated the making-of documentaries in the God of War games and Elder Scrolls. Would be really cool to see more games do that. I don't think it takes away from the magic, just like watching the BTS of Jurassic Park doesn't take away from the impact
@mattmorehouse9685
3 жыл бұрын
I'd say it often increases the impact when you know what sort of efforts went into it. I remember watching a NoClip documentary(1) on Arkane and Dishonored, where they talked about the features they added in, despite the work it needed. Like the ability to take out all your targets non lethally. That wasn't planned from the beginning, it was aded in halfway, as Harvey said in said interview. "'There was a moment, pretty far into development, when I (Harvey) realized, I was sitting there, thought about it for a while, and I looked up at Raph (Colantonio) and was like, 'You know, because of the heavy stealth component here you never actually have to kill a guard.(...)"We really had about nine or ten assassination targets. 'If we could find a way to eliminate each of those (the targets) without killing them, then we could make this whole alternate system where, this game can be played non lethally.'"(2) That wasn't a feature planned from the start, it was something added on partway through development. Consider also the amount of choices Arkane allows, for example the first target, can have the poison he intends for another be switched to his glass, with dialogue and reactions from the other characters. Hell, you can save his target and not poison Campbell for the non lethal neutralization in the same run! I wonder how much work that took? Arkane's games are filled with these kinds of crazy ideas like how Dishonored allows you to play through the entire thing with no powers at all. That takes dedication for a game based on supernatural powers, and knowing this makes me even more excited for Arkane's next work, Deathloop. So I don't think knowing how the sausage is made necessarily decreases wonder, and indeed it can increase wonder at the dedication and talent of the developers. (1)kzitem.info/news/bejne/yWqhyqWtnZSLjW0 (2) kzitem.info/news/bejne/yWqhyqWtnZSLjW0 starts around 58:35.
@epicguy44
3 жыл бұрын
This is a genuinely excellent analysis. If more people took a step back and thought about the intentions behind all of the various forces that cause these issues we could see some meaningful progress.
@omegaPSI2006
3 жыл бұрын
I wanted to stop and express agreement with a ton of your points throughout but I realized that if I did that I'd be pausing every 3 minutes. Well done, well narrated and well executed as always!
@fizzplease6742
3 жыл бұрын
"And for some reason, unknown to the construction team, it's actually on fire." hahahah yea...
@mikev8746
3 жыл бұрын
I honestly think the Cyberpunk narrative is way more complex than people admit it to be. There are so many factors to take into consideration. The fact that the experience is vastly different on consoles/regular computer systems vs high end computers and the way that the general public deals with this truth. The fact that games can be played both as a weekend play-through or a month or longer pursuit, playing nothing else paired with the reality that Cyberpunk might have made naive people believe it was made for the latter though it exists right now as mostly a game for for former. And then there's the reality that honestly the game is not that different from Witcher 3 and that game was seriously overhyped and fostered in an environment where the public wanted to crown a new champion in the developer sphere. Not actually have one appear to take the crown themselves. Cyberpunk is what it is right now and understanding what you have on your hands runs directly with your grasp on being realistic in life. People who believed that the game would have Bethesda dialogue trees and Rockstar physics/AI simply do not understand how development works. Is the game a masterpiece? No absolutely not. Is the game bad? Not even close, it's an amazing game. It's just that people rate games based on sentiment. God of War was praised for its linearity and weekend playthrough set up. Meanwhile Cyberpunk is punished for being a linear questing experience and not a virtual sim. Witcher 3 was praised for the exact structure however. There's no real consistency here. Just that God of War and Witcher 3 were both fostered in the right environment to gather positive adoration from people that generally know no nuance to their verdict. A game is either horseshit or it's a masterpiece once emotions get tangled up with it. Meanwhile Cyberpunk was born in a time where people needed more. Be it due to the pandemic, the extreme drought of good AAA games or the fact that we're living in 2020 now and not 2018/2016 respectively. People don't base anything on real metric. Explanations are never given and people simply look to compare to favorably match their opinions. The handfull of extra consequences Witcher 3 offered vs Cyberpunk is used as a weapon to state that the game is horseshit. But the vastly improved cinematic experience of Cyberpunks dialogue vs Witcher 3's stilted camera shot dialogue sections is ignored. Even though is obvious that this might have taken more time to make. Hence reduced the options somewhat. People likewise compare it to games like Fallout New Vegas and give that as an example. Ignoring the lack of fidelity and complexity that game had vs Cyberpunk. People simply dream to much and forget about the practicality. It's an emotional decision to hate a game or love it nowadays. People therefor never learn. Soon there will be another new champion developer that people choose to love and adore. A developer that doesn't really do anything special other than being an underdog. It's faults are ignored and it's accomplishments are blown up. And then when they've built this developer up people will be ready to tear it down a couple years later.
@Unr3aler
3 жыл бұрын
I like this video because it fits my confirmation bias (gotcha!). No but seriously, I have been saying it for years and will keep saying it: Do not under any circumstances pre-order the game, in fact do not even buy them day 1 and wait for the dust to settle. This only benefits both players and the games as product (hard for me to judge whether this makes the game developent conditions better or worse). This is the only way to make the game companies stop selling a promise and start selling a product. If the success of the game is based upon the game itself, not the advertising, only logical outcome is that developement leads to a worthwhile products. Yeah I know, it is kinda naive to think this will happen beacuse it is going in the exact opposite direction but you know... one can hope.
@ninja_tony
3 жыл бұрын
I think there is no right or wrong answer here, and it depends obviously on the gamer AND the dev. I stopped preordering AAA games awhile back because there wasn't much of a valid benefit for doing so, but I will ALWAYS preorder and support smaller teams and indie devs, and I see nothing wrong with that. In their cases, the pre-sale support can make a world of difference, and if you believe in a particular project or the dev behind it, there's no reason you shouldn't be willing to put a few dollars toward seeing it's successful launch.
@007MrYang
3 жыл бұрын
I understand defending game developers, but let's not pretend like journalists are the paragon of virtue
@freelanceart1019
3 жыл бұрын
In my humble Academic Intellectual (big shot Art of Games & author of Art of Failure designers)Jesper Juul, Ian Bogost and Clint Hocking, managed to damage Videogame discourse with inconsistency , and reduced videogame criticism in the Academics of Videogame design, to beyond repair.
@uraxii2944
3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see the game industry really get into the weeds on informing people about how games are created. I remember watching Jeff Kaplan show early footage of overwatch, and he had to give so many disclaimers that this was early alpha footage and seemed genuinely concerned audiences seeing the game in that state at all was going to be negative. It blew my mind. Literally every game has an alpha stage, so how could it ever be controversial to show alpha footage?
@mattmorehouse9685
3 жыл бұрын
In my limited experience, there is a vocal group who will find any way they can to demand more from developers under the guise of being "consumer watchdogs." Like how Paradox studios is dogged by accusations that they're "greedy" for daring to require payment for their dlcs. Not that these are for games of massive scope; Crusader Kings 3 involves all of Eurasia, except China and a good portion of Africa as well. That and these sorts of claims get turned into a cause becasue "everyone knows" they're true. (Please note "everyone" may be a highly biased sample of online outrage manufacturers mainly picked because they agree on this issue and not be anywhere close to representative of the gaming population. Or, you know, the world, since they did say "everyone". But why let a little meaning of a word get in the way of Mammonite outrage mongering.)
@ayior
2 жыл бұрын
It's an old comment but it's hitting me in a specific spot. I'm at Game Dev school, and even in there I can present a gameplay prototype with the disclaimer of "Everything visual is just placeholders and will be overhauled" only to get so much criticism for the visuals of said placeholders... It's like puting a stick in the ground saying "I'm gonna build a house here" and people complaining "Well your stick is ugly, and also not a house!" If I had to present my game to a consumer audience, I'd probably be just as cautious/defensive lol
@CHEESENSPIEL
3 жыл бұрын
and with live service games, the cycle of developer crunch and consumer disappointment never ends! yay?
@Sir.Craze-
3 жыл бұрын
I see how it feels like that. And you're not wrong! But I do suspect its much more complicated then that
@finalfantasy50
3 жыл бұрын
For all the time you go on length to bring more transparency to the gaming industry, you keep things vague and nonspecific. More examples of corrupt journalists, toxic fandoms, unreasonable hype and obfuscating actors trying to hide bad practises. I do not agree with you on Gamergate and think that it was a big revelation into how media is bribed and angled and how lies to make hype are abundant in every line of society. I hope you make a followup and go into more specifics. Cheers!
@bruderdasisteinschwerermangel
3 жыл бұрын
Dear lord it's current year and I still hear "gamergate" again...
@Lord_of_Dread
3 жыл бұрын
I was a bit surprised about his take on that. I wasn't really involved but I thought everyone in the community knew what the deal was. Valid concerns and criticisms over ethics in game journalism, hijacked by the usual retards for their own political ends, completely overshadowing the original and real problems. Same thing for battlefield 5. Real and valid issues, hijacked by retards that think everyone is as simple minded and bigoted as them. Then media latches on and paints its own narrative based on the worst possible demographic. Same thing thats been happening with game coverage since what, the 80s?
@Morrigi192
3 жыл бұрын
@@Lord_of_Dread His braindead take on GG makes me seriously question the quality of the rest of his research. Obviously, the journalists who are being criticized for their muck-racking partisanship are going to smear those who oppose them. Believing them at face value is incredibly foolish.
@jsblibrarian1259
3 жыл бұрын
The original Left 4 Dead has developer commentary you can turn on while you play the first scenario. Was fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I wish it was more common.
@Qaosbringer
3 жыл бұрын
25:00 now you are doing the same thing you criticised a moment ago: believing everything you hear from the influencers and blaming the audience according to their lies. You neglect the Gamergate had a complex relation behind it, and claim "every single action taken is nothing but a hate campaign". Aah... it seems even the "intellectuals" can repeat these mistakes :)
@Tequila007Son
3 жыл бұрын
The irony is honestly pretty rich and likely lost on AI & Games. I laughed pretty hard listening to the cognitive dissonance at play in this video.
@saisameer8771
3 жыл бұрын
Everyone has their biases apparently, even otherwise smart people.
@samb1532
3 жыл бұрын
These are some good points; I've tried to understand games development more as I get older and want to appreciate the medium, but you're right that the industry doesn't make things all that easy for outsiders to become familiar. While you may understandably have a more sympathetic perspective towards games journalists having had experience in that area yourself, I think one thing you didn't mention is review score inflation, especially with AAA titles, which makes it very difficult to tell what AAA games are quality experiences and which are not. It's a complicated issue with companies often basing bonuses off of review scores (which seems abhorrent to me given the fact that games will often be forced to release by higher-ups, not the devs themselves), and review sites wanting to avoid controversial opinions. If we rate games on a 1-10 scale or equivalent, only scoring in the 7-10 region for a AAA title is naturally going to cloud how good the game actually is. Obviously part of that issue is simply that games are, as a whole, better than in the past, and that graphics/artistic presentation, or early-to-mid game experiences are often more important to some reviewers than core gameplay loops or late-game experiences. Additionally, reviewers may rarely factor in microtransactions that will be thrown in the face of players who will continue to play the game after the one week it would take to make a review.
@oldvlognewtricks
3 жыл бұрын
A lot of people suggesting more behind-the-scenes content, or less pre-ordering, or more demos, or whatever - as if these changes would have any appreciable effect if the underlying incentives, motivations and practices are not changed.
@Shadic495
3 жыл бұрын
Really threw me for a loop seeing you in the Atrium at 2:08, had to double check I'd got it right; had no idea you were previously a lecturer at my uni! Small world!
@AIandGames
3 жыл бұрын
Yup, that's the Derby Uni atrium. Still miss my cheap but surprisingly decent coffee from Blends.
@Shadic495
3 жыл бұрын
@@AIandGames God bless the 9am lecture fuel
@e2rqey
3 жыл бұрын
To me, videogames are an absolutely incredible medium. They are essentially every single other entertainment medium wrapped up into one. A beautiful amalgamation of art, music, theater, film, and literature, bound together by extremely technologically advanced hardware and software. It's hard enough to make a great piece of any one of those, much less all of them at the same time. As a medium, videogames are also quite young. Film is over 100 years old at this point, theatre is well over 1000, while music and art are nearly as old as humanity itself. Depending on how you look at it, videogames are basically an infant, if you are very generous you could maybe say it's in its early awkward teen years. The point is that there is a whole lot of stuff we have yet to figure out about them that will probably seem obvious 40-50 years from now. The industry itself has been through an enormous change since its inception and in such a short time has already made the single most valuable entertainment product in *of all time* ( _the fact it's GTA V is a whole other can of worms I'm not going to get into_ ). But, it's hard to overstate what an accomplishment that is. Due to the origins of the industry and of the press that is associated with it, it's pretty clear that growing pains were going to be inevitable. And then you have to consider that all of this is going on at the same time as a massive technological, communication, and information evolution is occurring. I hope that somewhere down the line publishers, press, developers and customers can all find a happy medium and some form of common ground. But, if this is going to happen I think that it will get worse before it gets better. I really do think that it will though....eventually. It's also important to remember that this industry is also growing up at the same time as its consumers. Not only is a much larger percentage of the population playing videogames, but a significantly larger age range as well. Amongst many of the other issues tied up in this whole discourse mess that you have highlighted, there is the cultural shift happening as a result of the makeup of the "gaming public" changing. Gaming has been generally culturally homogenous for quite a while, I think there has been a lot of friction due to that cultural homogeneity disappearing. Anyways, I applaud you for attempting to tackle this subject. I can't imagine how long it must have taken you to figure out a way to approach all of this. Every time I try to write something about the overall phenomenon you discuss in this video, it ends up being tied to so many various aspects of the industry. It's like each bit I attempt to grasp at is tied to a massive web, and pulling on or attempting to change any one part seems nearly impossible without dealing with the other parts it's attached to and so on. Regardless, I think you did a pretty good job of discussing this topic, and hope that it can be the catalyst for future productive conversations about this subject. I have been rambling a lot throughout this entire thing, but I do think I made some worthwhile points. Hopefully, this wasn't too disjointed for me to get them across.
@tvz_luigi3233
3 жыл бұрын
17:31 after you said that I immediately got a lottery ad
@Questioningbasics
3 жыл бұрын
Had no idea about the Whatculture plagiarism, unsubbed from them immediately.
@shaycray7662
3 жыл бұрын
Had no idea about AI and Games supporting extremist ideas, unsubbed from this channel immediately.
@Questioningbasics
3 жыл бұрын
@@shaycray7662 ??
@cyberdemon9306
3 жыл бұрын
@@shaycray7662 Can you be a little more specific ?? I really don't get your point...
@shaycray7662
3 жыл бұрын
@@cyberdemon9306 neo-Marxism and communism...
@cyberdemon9306
3 жыл бұрын
@@shaycray7662 I know what it is, but what does it have to do with this channel ?
@drummerdreamer77
3 жыл бұрын
This video essay is the best analysis of the video game industry as a whole (with all the actors considered) to date. It is very articulately put together and at times so accurate, so precise, it actually hurts. Most of these people mentioned in the video (KZitemr, influencer, pundit etc.) that constantly yap about how any game is poorly developed etc., have never written a single line of code in their lives let alone having an idea of how software development methodologies or pipelines or workflow orchestration function on a scale that is required to deliver even a mobile app/game, let alone a triple-a game. It is not magic, it is engineering at its best and it is indeed blood, sweat and tears.
@dghost000
3 жыл бұрын
Loved the video, just wished you gave and showed more concrete examples of the problems you were talking about, most people here probably know some but I think it would help ground what you are saying.
@kokujinblack77
3 жыл бұрын
Basically what I got from this video was that because of the lack of information about video game development and marketing of video games. CD project Red exploited this lack of communication to build a narrative around CyberPunk 2077 of that it was too big to fail. According to AI and Games, CD Project Red is in the black in terms of profit or sales thus encouraging the continued trend of game devs releasing games in really unfinished states. CD's reputation suffers, the game dev team suffers, and gamers suffer all at the cost for more money in return. What does this mean for the future of video game culture (in America at least)? and what drove CD Project Red to implore this tactic of releasing a game in a really "unfinished" state? like some of its contemporaries, and why is this tactic so damn profitable?
@JKSmith-qs2ii
3 жыл бұрын
I actually totally agree with Dan Houser, damn… maybe I’m in the wrong profession. I always avoid the behind the scenes of films because I feel it ruins subsequent watches.
@liaminwales
3 жыл бұрын
Ian Cutress from Anandtech talked about how hard it was to get people who relay know about the hardware to work for for Anandtech, any one with the qualifications they want can get a job in the industry for more than 4x the pay. Sure it's the same problem with video games, people qualified to talk about and review games will just get better jobs making games over talking about them to a main stream audience. so you end up with most the people with large audience are from the general public of consumers not from people who have been in the industry. Digital Foundry have also talked about the move from print press to online press, with print they where more funded by people buying the magazine but with online the advertising/Pr people have more influence over the content.
@SirHirnschaden
3 жыл бұрын
Its like the same with meat in the end. No one (big chunk of People) wants to know how to make a sausage or what it costs in terms of live. People just hype up the good things (taste/fun) try to justify the benefits or personal gaine to be able to ignore the price others pay.
@AIandGames
3 жыл бұрын
Fun Fact: I grew up hanging out in the butcher shop my Dad worked in. So I also know how to make sausages too! 😂
@_mickmccarthy
3 жыл бұрын
@@AIandGames Sounds like you've just got to become a lawyer to be able to confirm the saying: "Three things should never be seen in the process of being created: laws, sausage, and software."
@SirHirnschaden
3 жыл бұрын
@@_mickmccarthy hahaha
@zenspeed404
3 жыл бұрын
But the deal with people not wanting to know how sausage is made is based in the revulsion of what goes inside rather than avoiding the nuts and bolts of the process. Video games are more like transmissions: you see this thick chunk of metal and you don't know how it works because it's far more complicated than you think, but for some people, there is joy to be had in seeing how it all comes together. It seems less like magic and more like clockwork, but while "magic" is esoteric, clockwork can be understood and appreciated by everybody. As with all created things, there is joy to be found in the process of creation, not just the end result. Like I was watching this KZitem channel about transmission repairs and I learned that if a ball bearing is just a little too big and made of the wrong material, it can absolutely break the entire system down. That is fascinating to know.
@Birbface
3 жыл бұрын
'made by elves' - an incentive to both unconstructively obscure code behind the walls of IP so that the industry does not usefully learn from its constituent parts, and to foster entitlement amongst the industry's consumers, fueling oneupmanship in the technology domain and encourage abuse directed to 'faceless labourers' in the manufacturing and development chain of the games and stories. Unsurprisingly, knowing how a song is made and the notes produced adds to the miracle of its composition and inspiration. Mystique is only useful in the realm of belief, it's redundant in the realm of knowledge.
@griffitaj
Жыл бұрын
The statement that when a game is finished it is "abandoned" is a very narrow take. Almost all my favorite games are complete, but under this lense would be considered "abandoned". These are completed pieces of art. As with all art there may be imprefections, but over time these become part of the piece.
@DanaTheLateBloomingFruitLoop
3 жыл бұрын
Great video! Hopefully, the discourse around videogames might change in the future. I started to avoid big studio titles some years ago for many of the reasons mentioned in this video. I started to watch indie developers on youtube and buy their games and I might not play them that much, but I still like to support them because of the great educational ressources they provide.
@Yunners
3 жыл бұрын
Loved the Whatculture jab. I think I have to block at least one of their channels from my youtube suggestions at least once a week. They keep popping up, seems to be one for every topic.
@alephkasai9384
3 жыл бұрын
I have no idea what a whatculture is
@Yunners
3 жыл бұрын
@@alephkasai9384 Try to keep it that way.
@raulremesalvanmerode4458
3 жыл бұрын
Your channel and a ton of critique videos of other channels made me enjoy the development/ideas etc. of games even though I will not understand the deep intricate inner workings of them
@mattmorehouse9685
3 жыл бұрын
I'm even less involved in this than you, merely being a fan of video games, but thank you for making this video. I'll admit I'd formed a view that the systemic problems in the industry were overblown by the various online pundits to gain an audience, and your stating that there are major problems has given me something to think on. I feel the amount of crap many developers get is incredibly disingenuous, such as how Paradox has to deal with people saying all their dlc should be free, or the way people fail to note that "bad" microtransactions, and "good" dlc are separated by a very fuzzy line. I may've gone too far in the opposite direction, but I feel the way pundits will talk on and on about how developers are lasy and greedy, yet never look in the mirror and notice their own Mammon brand pandering for more free stuff is sickening. Thank you for addressing that instead of falling back on tired "I'm the consumer! Therefore I demand free everything!" that so many You Tube channels use.
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