Ok so the wild fucking thing is: the ADATS. America and UK's "best" SPAA they have. The ADATS's radar hasn't been updated to top tier standards at all. It hasn't been TOUCHED since it was launched. It's still playing like it's a 10.7 SAM system. It IS a 10.7 SAM system. Think about it: When the ADATS was released, idr which but either the 2S6 was already in the game or was added soon after. They were considered a pair, contemporaries, counterparts. On equal footing. The ADATS had the ATGM aspects and the 2S6 had 4 guns. Both had the same amount of missiles, same range, same G pull. The ADATS suffered from the tank destroyer SP cost but was at least able to take on enemy tanks at the time, I think the best being the T80U or something similar. Russian ERA wasn't so over the top that it could pen it from the front with the ATGM. Things were mostly balanced if in an odd way. Fast forward to today: Neither the 2S6 not the ADATS are any different now than they were back then. In fact, the "nerfs" to the 2S6 missiles were changed and now the 2S6 has 35G missiles once again, making it equivalent to the ADATS once more. Same range, same pull, same amount. The 2S6's radar functions better now with an automatic locking system where all you gotta do is press the lock button you have bound and it'll automatically find the target in the tracking radar. The ADATS does not have this. The 2S6 also was moved down to 10.7, back up to 11.0, then back down to 10.7 for some reason?The ADATS? 11.7 and that's final. Thing should be 11.3 at most, and probably down to 10.7 with the 2S6 for how poorly it performs. Why the fuck is something that is the equivalent of the 2S6 at 11.7? Or more importantly why is the 2S6 at 10.7? A few factors come to mind: Spawn costs for one. If the Pantsir and 2S6 are at the same BR, they'll have the same spawn costs and that'll make it harder to spawn the second one if your first one dies. Secondly, Gaijin wants the 2S6 at 10.7 so it can seal club shit. If the next best thing at that BR is tracked Rolands, the 2S6 has a distinct advantage over every other SPAA, giving it first pickings on every air target that spawns. Thirdly, Gaijin wants it at 10.7 so it can seal club A-10s specifically. Why? Gaijin HATES the A-10 for seemingly no reason. Nerfed its gun rounds twice, raised its BR like three times. It can't even kill shit at 10.7 with its main gun anymore and now it has to constantly deal with 2S6 permanently, where as before you could at least sit at 10.0 and pray you don't get an uptier. But sure, the ADATS can hang at 11.7 with every other vehicle that has 12(20)km range SAMs with better radars and lower SP costs. Better nerf the LAV-AD again while they're at it. Gaijin has no clue why shit like the ADATS and the LAV-AD have "good" track records and it's because they're THE ONLY FUCKING THING US PLAYERS HAVE. Of course the ADATS is going to be "performing well" at 11.7 because it's the only SAM system the US has to defend itself with, doesn't mean it's performing well relative to other systems! Doesn't mean its FUN. Why does the LAV-AD get used so much and get so many kills?" Because the ADATS COSTS TANK DESTROYER SPAWN COST AND THE NEXT BEST SAM IS A FUCKING TRACKED ROLAND. People be using the LAV-AD as a light tank because shit's so fucking expensive in the US tech tree due to the best top tier vehicles all being 11.7, so their SP costs grow exponentially with each respawn. Yeah. You heard me right. When you die in an 11.7 MBT your ADATS's spawn cost doubles. With the Pantsir it does not. Like the SPAA difference(not just between RU and US, but between RU and EVERYONE) is massive. Russia gets two 11.7 tier platforms that cost SPAA SP and if one dies they have the other to fall back on plus their separate MBT costs. US/UK has one 11.7 platform that costs MBT SP and forces them to make a decision on whether they want to go try and win the game or fight off the endless Russian CAS. And even if the US/UK manages to get CAS up, the Russian team has twice the amount of SPAA that the US/UK team has. Because the majority of Russian premiums were sat at 10.0 for the longest time, and the decline in reasonable prices for the event T80s, the Russian top tier teams have not had to deal with 11.7 premiums nearly as much as US teams have, so where an American team might have 3-4 M1A1 AIM players with no back up options like CAS or SPAA, the Russian teams have always had a 90% majority of their palyers having access to at least the 2S6 if not also the Pantsir. This made them one of the most SPAA heavy nations in the game for a long time, as you'd kill one Pantsir and every dipshit that died saw your kill on the kill feed and immediately spawns a Pantsir. So if there wasn't already two to three Pantsirs on the field, there is now six of them shooting at you from two different spawns. EVEN IF you manage to kill them, they just spawn in 2S6s or Strelas, which are harder to find than the flak bus that is the Pantsir. To go even further, the Russian 11.7 teams have not been plagued by one death premium leavers until very recently, and even then there is an entire lineup that wallet warriors have "access" to purchasing that makes Russian premium players worth way more than any other team's premiums. 2S38, the variety of 11.3 T80Us that have been available to acquire, the T80UD which is just an 11.3 T80U at 10.0, the BMP-2M, the TURMST, the KA-50, the SU25K, the MiG23ML, and now the T80U-E1. The Russian premiums aren't even holding Russian teams back like every other premium user sets because their lineup is so fucking versatile. I could go on and on and on. But basically if Gaijin wants to fix the Pantsir problem, they need a better US SPAA that isn't the ADATS and they need to put the ADATS at like 11.3. This will give a higher chance of both teams having quality SPAA that isn't balanced to one side. Too many times I see the match maker putting Russia, France, Germany, and Sweden all on the same team, which puts 90% of the best SPAAs on one team, vs having US, UK, and Japan on the other. Because US players tend to make up at least 75% of their side's team, there is just no SPAA on the US side half the time because a mixture of wallet warriors and lack of SP to actually spawn in SPAA. Finally, the best players that have the ADATS are the ones that are usually carrying the game, so if they're forced to spawn in SPAA to counter enemy CAS, then the wallet warriors who don't have any back up are forced to fight superior tanks who then die and leave. This puts a strain ont he actually good US players because they can carry the game and kill the enemy team, but the wallet warriors feed the enemy team SP that lets them get CAS up that kills the good US players who then have no team mates to actually fight the match while they're forced to play SPAA to kill the enemy CAS. However this creates a problem because the US players carrying the match probably have enough SP to spawn their own CAS in, so they do instead of spawning SPAA, die to a Pantsir or ItO, and then leave because their ADATS now costs 270 fucking SP and they spent all 900+ of their SP on that F16C. etc etc many such cases. This is just my experience playing US top tier and why I branched out into China and Russia. (Don't get me started on all the bells and whistles that Russian stuff gets that the US tech tree can only dream of)
@karnithraxthedrgn710
3 ай бұрын
The reason those nations are alwasys paired up is because of people playing with friends having those nations in their line ups so that they don't have to face all of the bs of having sweden or germany against russia, when they do though their win rates drop drastically cause of how broken the germany and sweden are at top tier. But I fully agree with you about this, besides those 3 countries, everyone else is just screwed on most aspects whether it be on the ground or in the air.
@artemisthehunter8360
3 ай бұрын
I feel like if the ADATS was changed to an SPAA, and The Pantsir removed, that would solve many problems
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
The big part you missed with the 2S6/TOR/Pantsir thing… Gaijin essentially promised the TOR M1/M2 system for Russia, in THE FOLLOWING update to the Chinese TOR, that being “Sky Guardians.” To which they then nerfed missile physics, with the 2S6 being the focus of that physics change, and then subsequently gaslighting the playerbase (with a shit graph) into believing the 2S6 was always that junk because of their “statistics.” Then pointing out that the TOR M2 wouldn’t have “made much of a difference.” So they put the Pantsir S1 in UNDER THE ASSUMPTION that RU was ALWAYS underperforming and completely ignoring the imbalance such an advanced system would cause. Now we have a nation that has: The longest range cruise missile launcher in game (SU-25SM) which is covered by the longest range SAM system in game, while being supported by the tankiest and longest missile range attack helicopters. Backed by some of the strongest offensive MBTs in game. (Due to damage model magic being excessively favored to T series MBTs) If that isn’t bias, intentional or not… then idk what is. Oh and lets not forget Russia can have allied western countries as support when those two doctrines should never be on the same side to begin with.
@yspear_
3 ай бұрын
It's just a matter of time before those shit fall, like how the Su27 was dominating ARB before Fox 3. Soon better western stuff will be added and 100% will take over the meta again
@mikkim-mh9bc
3 ай бұрын
@@yspear_The problem is that cause is threefold now. There isn't any single NATO vehicle (or class of vehicle) they could add that would fix the issue, and if there was such a vehicle then it would break ground to the point it would be that nation vs itself. New completely OP MBT? Still have to deal with Russian CAS. New NATO SAM? Still have to deal with Russian MBTs. A new OP jet? Maybe? But unless its able to simultaneously stay off radar and outrange all SAMs in the game AND have a lot of ordnance it's going to still have to deal with Russian AA/ helicopters spamming Vikhrs and MANPADs at you. So short of like, literally an F-35 equipped with AGM-88s or helicopters getting hellfire Romeos (neither of which are good for the game's health) Gaijn would have to add multiple vehicles all at once that deal with all the aspects that make Russian teams so difficult to deal with.
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
@@yspear_ when it comes to anti air defense there isn’t much left. Russia IS better at mobile air defense platforms. Which is why the Pantsir just shouldn’t have been added in the first place. The Su-25SM also shouldn’t have been added with KH38s. Russia does do it better to some extent but thats clearly caused an imbalance. At this point now Fox-3s have made using F16C pretty difficult, when its so cheap to spawn in a fox 3 spammer within active range. Since this patch in particular I have spent my entire air spawn just defending other jets while being targeted by Pantsirs.
@yspear_
3 ай бұрын
@@mikkim-mh9bc The AA situation. Pantsir shouldn't be added, i agree with you. However, the MBTs and new CAS, western have better and new things that could be added. Currently, the Germans and Sweden have the best MBTs and then there's a lot of weapons and planes that could be added that is better for CAS before the F35s
@mikkim-mh9bc
3 ай бұрын
@@yspear_ I'm not asking for the F-35, I'm just saying that unless it is something that extreme, there is no quick fix for the problem-- giving any one nation a single vehicle isn't going to change anything. There's just too many things you have to try to account for all at once. It doesn't really matter how good the best MBT is when you get nuked by an Su--25 firing cruise missiles from their airspawn. It would take addition of multiple new vehicles *all at once* to actually have an effect.
@sessan9450
3 ай бұрын
Painfully underrated channel, love the videos, keep it up!
@davidgreenway5864
3 ай бұрын
Makes me sad whenever I play the stormer, have fun killimg helicopters and early spawned planes, then a 2s6 turns up on my team and suddenly I'm completely pointless. There is just no way to match that kind of power whenever one spawns, so you are effectively useless
@RyanK2036
3 ай бұрын
Overcompensating in response to the “what air defense doing?” meme lol
@havenking
3 ай бұрын
Don't forget about the su-25 series stalinium flying tank. Their russian bias were so ridiculous that russia mains strategy to not die were to make their tail absorb several missiles without even get destroyed.
@Stridsvagn-PanzerKommandant
3 ай бұрын
As much as I try to listen to some content creators, excuse Gaijin's strategic moves, the dev's cooperation to those moves and the reluctance of the Russian player base to be outspoken about their performance. There's simply no denying at this point (especially after the most recent update) there is some blatant and unrealistic favoritism towards the Russian tech tree. In the latest update, with the addition of autoloaders, one imagined it would substantially decrease the survivability of soviet MBT's. It did the exact opposite and has aided in devouring shells and spall, acting more like spaced armor rather than sheet steel, coincidentally, tanks that actually feature spaced armor in their hull lack this ability to nullify spalling. The autoloader can manage to tank as much as 7-10 autocannon shells (from personal experience) and up to 3 full caliber APFDS rounds without being disabled. Even when hitting a piece of ammunition, the tank simply will not explode.
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
This
@le_duckygang_7763
3 ай бұрын
@robertish4917 its a new mechanic so give it time for them to work out bugs. this has happened before where russian and chinese tanks wouldn't spall properly. As well, what is the benefit to gaijin for making a certain tech tree better than others? what profits would this give them? nobody would play other nations and there would be no point to add to other nations. On the russian forums for war thunder, russian players have the opposite problem where gaijin apparently has a western bias. The headquarters for gaijin hasn't even been in russia for over 9 years, and most of their employees aren't russian. Do you think that the owner just tells everyone to make russian tanks better because hes russian?
@hemendraravi4787
2 ай бұрын
its kinda the opposite with air with su27sm
@INeatFreak
Ай бұрын
And now according to the leaks, they're adding another SPAA to Russia, the OSA-AKM. Which makes it the 8th SPAA they've added in last 2 years. Meanwhile Israel still lacking top tier SPAA and Britain and USA as well stuck with Tank Destroyer ADATS that is equivalent to Tunguska at 1.0 higher BR alongside Panthsir but with 2-3x times the SP cost.
@Boris_The_Turtle
3 ай бұрын
When they added the Pantsir I was cringing. Would have wanted to see the Tor-M1 be added to Russia since China had already gotten it.
@-looky-3092
3 ай бұрын
Not to mention the zsu57 being able to take oit tanks with nearly instant reload and spaa spawn cost
@JimmMor1sson
2 ай бұрын
>Pantcir >best AA in game >literally worst AA in world, shat on in Syria, in Ukraine >historical and realistic game
@FreeRojava2025
3 ай бұрын
I don’t like Russia
@superfamilyallosauridae6505
3 ай бұрын
some russian weapons are cool. some russian history is fascinating. Ukraine needs to win
@FreeRojava2025
3 ай бұрын
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505 oh yes I agree, I love Russian history. I mean Russia atm should go f itself.
@RaV591
3 ай бұрын
It won’t
@unaccessibIe
3 ай бұрын
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505it won't
@Mike_Oxard
3 ай бұрын
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505 let me guess, you only started to care after 2022 and didn’t even know ukraine existed in 2014
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
With the addition of the new autoloader module (which I thought would nerf them) has actually buffed T series survivability lol. I guess they need to just buff spalling
@elkrumb9159
3 ай бұрын
It’s not really a buff, it’s more of a rework
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
@@elkrumb9159 if they are eating so much shrapnel that you can barely ignite the ammorack. Or if the ammorack is going black and just disappears without repercussions… then its a buff
@elkrumb9159
3 ай бұрын
@@SteelxWolf I mean, sure but if you hit them it’s not like they will be able to fire back, and in my experience recently they still die in one hit
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
@@elkrumb9159 not if all the shrapnel is absorbed and the autoloader is only damaged, not broken. (T90M spall liner makes it insanely survivable)
@elkrumb9159
3 ай бұрын
@@SteelxWolf most of the time the Autoloaders breaks surprisingly easily of course my experience is anecdotal but that’s what it feels like
@Shin-ch8me
3 ай бұрын
The Avenger system for US would've been an easy one to add somewhere between M163 and the LAV. Could make it the Iraq War variant with a single .50cal also. A "premium" version could be the tested version in 2004 where the .50 was positioned better and gave option to substitute one stinger pod with a Javelin missile pod.
@19chevelle72
3 ай бұрын
Just give the US the T249 Vigilante 37mm gattling AA gun and all is forgiven.
@warhead_beast7661
3 ай бұрын
Its also a big problem that the Adats for Britain and America still has the tank destoryer spawn cost
@Kami-sama.isekai
3 ай бұрын
What AA could the US potentially get even if they are export models from other nations?
@craighopper2698
3 ай бұрын
The only way to beat russian bias is for everyone to play russia
@Nightmare_52
3 ай бұрын
i will always be advocating for filling out the existing tech trees rather than just introducing half baked new ones and sprinkling in some new additions to the existing trees, make all of them playable and competitive before moving to the new thing which leaves most trees more and more loose as new top tiers are added and the brs pushed further up with less filling in between
@Antal46
Ай бұрын
2s38 can spam proxy at its target without reloading all day out to 4-5 km no problem. And the target has no way to know it as the shells are invisible even through thermals and dont make any noise. Hell you cant even see the flak that the proxy shells make just insta death. If that Swedish AA without tracer wasn't annoying enough now you have this crap and it doesent even need to reload.
@andreasblixt789
26 күн бұрын
Solution is simple, get a second account, login from wifes laptop, add a 1.0 russian tank and que with it. Even if that = 1 less active player on your team, the russian super tanks in your team will almost always guarantee a win, no better armor for a leopard or abrahams then a T-80 standing in front of you. :P
@Danknic1234
3 ай бұрын
As much as I like pantsir it does have quite few bugs and at times seem to be broken on a technical level but from what heard its like that for another top tier SPAA as well
@gerfand
3 ай бұрын
Russia getting AA makes sense because IRL they have many, many systems. as far I know US only had Humvee based Avengers (stingers) and Patriots (too big for battle) for a while. NOW that is not to say you should add them for add sake. the question really is if they will overperform their BR or not. This I don't know how to say as I don't even play War Thunder I'm just found those videos interesting. the thing with Pantsir really seens to be the question. is it too powerfull for its BR? of course if they make stuff that is fakely powerfull whinch is what I understood about the Tungusta its really bad.
@Iden_in_the_Rain
2 ай бұрын
SLAMRAAM and SLAMRAAM-ER could be added, 15km and 25km respectively from what I can tell.
@frankf6716
3 ай бұрын
In reality, the Soviet doctrine did emphasize on the mechanized anti-air capability because the Red Army knew the adversary had the air superiority, and they cannot count on their Air force to give air umbrella to them. On the adversary part, only German and USA have the matching player base so I will discuss them. For German, they have almost equivalent strength in anti-air units at each battle rating. You may consider the top tier FlakRakRad a little bit underwhelming, but I think it is the only outlier, and for a pretty long period, the FlakRakRad is actually one of the best (if not the best) anti-air unit in the game. For USA it is another story. USA has not only the strongest Air Force at most battle rating. Adding to that, they have a lot of good plane that are great at multi-role, which allows them to reigh havoks to both air and ground. The new update introducing FOX-3 missiles only adds to the situation. With experienced Air players, I can imagine they could single hand vaporize half of the enemy team using AV-8B+ or F-16C in one take-off. If we step back a little bit, there are certain levels of balance at a larger scale.
@Error-5478
3 ай бұрын
You all harp the same tune over and over. There's some balance if the US team sweats like crazy and becomes a bunch of try hards. The Pantsir is, what, at most 100SP to spawn? The F16C with amraams is at minimum 550SP. The AV8 is similar with less ordinance. The Russian teams on the other hand simply need to hold W to win, and if they die they can spawn the pantsir and shoot down all the 16's and Harriers anyway. That isn't balance. Not to mention the US and British top tier spaa isn't even considered an spaa, making it cost even more SP to spawn.
@Raj-df7wf
3 ай бұрын
@@Error-5478it also got screwed over by the missile handling nerf to spaa apparently
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
@@Raj-df7wfthe pantsir? Maybe a bit. But that doesn’t matter when your missile is capable of hitting a target without warning due to optical/IRST lock from the moment the aircraft spawns in. I have been prefired by pantsir players before. They just sit and stare at the air spawn and fire missiles when they anticipate a player spawning CAS.
@jacobwachlin6542
3 ай бұрын
when you take into account that yes the aircraft have large quantities of firepower, but never have a chance to use it because they spawn within range of an anti air system that takes zero skill to play... it doesn't matter if said aircraft can vaporize an entire team... there isn't a realistic NATO counter to the S1 pansir in war thunder... instead gaijin gave the counter to oh wait... the Russians with the Mt-38 missiles with 40km range.... NATO missiles top out at 20km and you have to be in perfect parameters to get them to go that far. the more realistic range for the AGM-65 is 14km which means you been in range of a pansir for 4km already. the Russian line up is busted and OP. I would know, I play Russian, German and American top tier.
@SteelxWolf
3 ай бұрын
@@jacobwachlin6542 and the Pantsir shoots down mavs anyway
@Raj-df7wf
3 ай бұрын
As an Israel player I’m sad about the SPYDER being delayed because gaijin thinks it would be too powerful:(
@vaguevtx5090
3 ай бұрын
There was a point in time when there were like 8 updates in a row where Russia received a swing wing jet, before any other nation got one. They're now doing the same with the Su25 when it comes to versatile long range strike platforms.
@Stridsvagn-PanzerKommandant
3 ай бұрын
This may well be on your schedule, but it would be interesting to cover the T-34 problem(as I call it), a vehicle with historically low survivability, which in game is able to carry entire matches. And in downtiers, is flat out abusive (1940 and prototype variant)
@goliath3413
3 ай бұрын
You forgot to mention that Strela was absolute dog sh8t when it launched and once they added the IRCCM it got nerfed on top of being THE AA ussr players were asking to fill the gap, but instead gaijin added the bs Derivatsaya that no one asked for, made it premium, and left the TT just like it was until strela got added. The pantsir was a weird one cuz we were promised TOR m1 or 2. And tbh its still a needed adition. without either of these ussr is left to rot while nato nations (especially US) is getting a free pass on bombing everything they see with shiny thermals and outranged agms. considering how many AGMs a single aircraft can carry, they can overwhelm any spaa and one shot everything they touch. With Tunguska it was simply imposible to do anything about it, back then and now.
@o-hogameplay185
3 ай бұрын
exactly
@jameshodgson3656
3 ай бұрын
I don't think a nation being strong in an area that's their irl strong suit constitutes bias, otherwise there's "US Bias" in air and naval battles. The Gepard was the best AA in the game for longer than the Pantsir has been, and there's at least a situational argument that the Japanese TAN SAM is the best anti fixed wing AA, as it can't be chaffed, notched, flared, multipathed, or otherwise defeated in ways that the Pantsir can be. Not to mention, the Pantsir shouldn't be able to be defeated by chaff thanks to it's PESA radar having more robust signal processing and filtering than other AA in game. The same goes for the Tor, which is also arguably underperforming overall as it should be able to track and destroy targets as small as 120mm rockets.
@Янус_Ырт
3 ай бұрын
Lmao US mains
@semicooperative7188
3 ай бұрын
I have 5 top tier lineups. I'm definitely not a US main
@teox7967
3 ай бұрын
found the sore RuZZian main
@hemendraravi4787
2 ай бұрын
russian bias : su27sm/smt worse then every nato fighter at both bvr n wvr (except those with derbys)
@RaV591
3 ай бұрын
Ukraine flag political cringe
@Oppen1945
3 ай бұрын
Supporting Ukraine is pretty based though.
@RaV591
3 ай бұрын
@@Oppen1945 na supporting throwing away lives in a lost cause isn’t
@fagalon9152
3 ай бұрын
@@RaV591 Is that why russia has 500k casualties and not even the entire regions of the Donbass that they aim to capture, even after the "Military Refocus" after they failed to fucking capture Kyiv? Dipshit.
@Oppen1945
3 ай бұрын
@@RaV591 Then go tell Putin to get out of Ukraine, he started the war. Tell me what he said when you get back.
@RaV591
3 ай бұрын
@@Oppen1945 yeah he’s not going to leave that’s the point…
@o-hogameplay185
3 ай бұрын
another bad take. first of all, saying "best" pr "most OP" SPAA is meaningless, since all of them are useless against aircrafts. any mildly skilled CAS player with more than 2 braincells (okay, a CAS player with more than 2 braincell is as rare as a hen's teeth, but still) will just obliterate any SPAAs from outside their effective range. then, you put so much weight on the 2S6 having fake stats, yet you don't complain about germany having 1 completly fake (Ostwind II), a never made (Flakpanzer 341), and one with fake stats (Kugelblitz). it is also worth mentioning that you said nothing about some other nations' SPAAs that were recently added. Italy got the Leo 40, which is just better than the BTR in every way, as well as France getting the AMX 10p, which is again better.
@fagalon9152
3 ай бұрын
What weapons are these CAS players using? Because at the moment the PGM-2K is bugged and wont lock outside of 5km, you have you lase, then launch, and hope it keeps lock all while doing that with a gen 1 thermal TGP. Even then the PGM-2K is the only CAS option in NATOs favour that actually outranges the pantsir and even if the player manages to get lucky and it actually tracks and launches, its subsonic to barely supersonic, has the RCS of a fucking Gripen and produces the most obvious smoke train. It's pathetically easy to spot and intercept. Every other NATO CAS element in game has less range than the Pantsirs 95Ya6. You're comparing the fucking 2S6 to WW2 gun spaa's, one of which isnt even obtainable anymore. Not only this but if Ostwind II wasnt in the game then germany wouldn't even have an SPAA for the 5.0 BR range. And what even are the "fake stats" of the Kugelblitz then, because you clearly seem to know so why dont you tell us? Infact since you want to talk about innacurate so badly, please do explain why the T-80B gets a thermals upgrade after the NVD module, yet only one prototype for the T-80B ever got thermals. Or how about how the BMP-3 gets thermals despite not being of the BMP-3M standard? Infact why don't we mention that the T72B models are 10.0 while having protection against up to 11.0 darts and 11.3 darts in the case of the T72B (1989), even more ridiculous is how the '89 model STAYS AT 10.0. Now lets compare that to the Challenger mk2 and Mk3. The challenger mk2 already cannot penetrate the T72B let alone the 1989 model, however the Mk.3 recieves L26 and goes up to 10.3. That is the only difference between the Mk.2 and the Mk.3 Challengers 1's. Even better? L26 doesnt change anything regarding penetration of the T72B BASE MODEL, Not even the 1989 model. The challenger mk.3 is at a HIGHER BR because it recieves a better shell that changes NOTHING TO ANY TANK IT FACES, with ONE exception which is the Leo 2A4. That is the only difference. The T72B/(1989) are invulnerable to all darts around it minus weakspots, have the same mobility (arguably better) than the challenger mk1's, while penetrating and one shotting the Challenger 1's with ease (even to the UFP composites and in some isntances the TURRET CHEEKS) all while being 10.0 with neglibile downsides of a bad reverse speed no thermals and slow gun handling, which is far easier to work around when you lolpen and one shot most things anyways. How you're even comparing the Leo 40 to the BTR is insane as those are two completely different vehicles, it has an autocannon that uses clips rather than a continuous belt and ontop of that THE LEO 40 HAS AN EXPOSED CREW, THEY CAN DIE TO MGS. MEANWHILE, YOU CANNOT DIE TO MGS EXCEPT 50 CALS. The AMX-10P has a 7mph reverse speed, exactly the same as yours while being far less mobile because it is tracked, has less pen and post-pen damage because of the gun in tradeoff for a better firerate and finally IT CANT EVEN SIDE PEN ANY RUSSIAN VEHICLES BECAUSE IT DOESNT HAVE ENOUGH PEN. The only russian vehicles the AMX-10P can actually do anything against at its BR are the light/unarmoured vehicles. Any sort of meaningful Anti-Tank based tank or casemate cannot be sidepenned by the AMX-10P minus the T34 chassis vehicles. Even then it requires a specific angle and shot. What you said gives off the vibes that you are an entitled little russian main. (not saying you are, i'm saying it GIVES OFF THE VIBES.) Play some fucking Britain, US, France or Japan Ground RB from reserve to top tier and tell me if you think russia doesnt have it easy then.
@o-hogameplay185
3 ай бұрын
@@fagalon9152 first, chill. so, first part. just because they are bugged at the moment, it does not mean that they can easily be countered. it does not change anything. on the german SPAA thing. my point there is to point out that the video maker has issues with the 2S6 having fake stats, yet he does not say anything about those SPAAs. wether germany would have an SPAA without the OStwind II at the 5.0 range is utterly irrelevant here, just like the fact that you can't get the Flak 341 anymore. It does not change the fact that it never existed. and they are not the only partially/completly fakes. lastly, the Kugelblitz never had power turret traverse, so realistically it should only have a hand cranked turret, which would give it around the same traverse rate as on the M10 tank destroyer. why do the T-80B get a thermal upgrade? because it had it IRL, you even said. by your logic, gaijin should remove everything with only a single prototype, so yeah. why does the BMP-3 have thermals despite not being on the 3M standard? i need your sources on the base version not having them. on the T-72 vs Challenger thing. if you think the Challenger can't pen it, then you have a massive skill issue. a Challenger is better in every meaningful way than a T-72, including mobility (especially in reverse) on the later SPAAs you mentioned, thanks for steelmaning my statement. yes, the leo can be destroyed by low calibre MG, bu it is more likely to disable your vehicle before you can do that, and it can do that much easier than a BTR-ZD. not to mention the very strong HE the Leo has, that can 1-2 shot any open tops, and even planes. and even then, you can still disable the ZD with low calibre MG too, and if i am correct even the hull side, so that isn't that big of an advantage, especially if we take in the mobility and firepower advantages of the Leo. on the AMX 10p. while you mentioned the reverse speed of the 10p, saying it is 7mph (it is actually ~7.4, but okay), let's just examine the reverse speed of the ZD. oh, it is also 7. tho not mph, but km/h... to use civilized units, the 10p has a reverse speed of 12km/h, while the ZD has 7. so you just proved that the 10P is better than the ZD in that regard. also, you saying that it can't pen the russian tanks except the T-34 variants and light ones, honestly, who cares?! the ZD can't do it either, in fact, it is much worse at it, so what is your point? and lastly, i am not a russia main, in fact i am a UK/China main, so you failed there too. (and also play every other country too)
@konna6130
3 ай бұрын
"Leo 40, which is just better than the BTR in every way" except firerate (800 rpm x2 = 1600 rpm vs 240 rpm) and survivability(1 extra crew and 4 of the crew hidden in hull, leo only has 1 in hull = even 7mm can decimate the leo 40 in seconds). The firerate makes a huge difference unless you're good with low rpm aa guns. I personally perform better with the leo compared to the ZD in AA role. BTR-ZD vs AMX 10p: ZD better rpm(1600 rpm vs 740 rpm), survivability(2x crew) and mobility(23% more hp/). 10p has bigger belts, but less effective rounds against aircraft that can deal with light/medium tanks more easily. also 10p only 50 has degrees of elevation, which is a fatal flaw against any decent cas player. Yes BTR-ZD is hard to use because of the small belts with the high firerate, but in the right hands is much more effective against aircraft than 10p or leo 40. TPK 6.41 is arguably much better AA than any of those 3, but china's zsd is even better than that. I have used all of them. have you? Didnt think so. Also your argument really was: If a single vehicle of a tech tree is not the best vehicle at its rating, bias cannot exist? A skilled cas player being able to kill anyone doenst make it okay for one nation having more and much better AA options than other nations.
@o-hogameplay185
3 ай бұрын
@@konna6130 Leo vs ZD. fire rate does not matter if you have over 200 rpm, or even 160 (like on the german late 37mm). not only that, but the accuracy on the 23mm is just awful, even when fully upgraded, while the 40mm is very accurate. the clip size on the ZD is not that big of an issue, just use small bursts, hoever, being able to just hold the trigger down on the Leo is an advantage. on the note of survivability, it does not matter. you are much more likely for you to disable the enemy due to the 240 RPM and 90mm+ pen while being very stable on a quick platform than the enemy has time to react. if they shoot you anyway it is not much worse than on the ZD, which gets disabled. btw the side of the ZD can also be penned by MG, as well as you can ammo rack it from the front, due to the ready ammo being in the front of the turret. regardless, if you get your turret crew on the ZD, you are done anyway except from a very small amount of situations. not only that, but the Leo has a very effective HE shell that 1-2 shots planes, and even open tops. good luck toing anything against a Waffenträger or Hellcat at distance with your inaccurate 23mm when you can just 1shot both with the 40mm HE. on the AMX. as i said, RPM does not matter that much in this canse too. especially when it has a double feed mechanism, so you can switch between shell types on top of having a 4x bigger clip (and technically you have 2 of them ready, so that's 8x), which is still 2x (or 4x) bigger when we take into account the ZD's 2 guns. not only that, but the AMX has 2s faster reload, and even if you are caught mid reload, you can just switch quickly to the other belt if needed. survivability is not only depending on the crew size. if that were to be true, the Leo 1 would be more survivable than an Strv 103, and so on. the fact alone that you can shoot from cover while only having a small remote turret exposed makes the 10p more suvivable without even taking into account that it is immune to low calibre MG fire. the gun elevation is also larely irrelevant, because a smart CAS player (they are pretty rare thom "CAS player" and "smart" are an oxymoron), because they can either wait for you to focus on someone else, or just spam rockets at you from 2km+ where you can't do anything. even then the 2 exposed crew member in your scenario makes the ZD more voulnerable, since even a reserve tier plane can get your gunner with a single (or a few) bullets, which they will hit by chance alone. on the TPK 6.41 being better, idk, i just dont feel the oerlikon guns. the zsd is good too, but it is just a slower ZD with less ammo imo. "Also your argument really was: If a single vehicle of a tech tree is not the best vehicle at its rating, bias cannot exist?" no that is not my argument. it was to point out the double standards and dishonest cherrypicking in this video. you know, the ones like "this one had fake stats for some time so it seems bias, just don't look at germany having 3 essentially fake SPAAs (at some way), they don't count! oh, let's just not even mention them, so the viewers might not think about that!" or the "ah russia got all these new SPAAs while USA did not, just don't look at other TTs that got at the same time new SPAAs that are better than the russians! or just like before, let's just not even talk about them!" what all this is, is a proof of bias. of course not russian bias, because the core concept of it is just plain brainrot, no. it is a clear evidence of confirmation bias on the video maker, and all other zombies that are in the russian bias camp. why is the mere concept of russian bias unreasonable? let's just break it down. gaijin is a pro profit company, and it is easy to see in practice. to what demographic would russian bias appeal? russians, belorussians, maybe serbs and kazakhs. what are universal with these countries? the average citizen has a comparably low income. a game with russian bias would be discouraging for other nations, especially in middle/western europe, and the americas, korea, japan, essentially all the countries where the average citizen has enough income to be able to spend money in a game, but it would be unlikely for even to play the game that is biased towards their enemy, let alone pay them money. and a country where a large part of the population lacks even basic things such as in door toilets just simply can not support a game financially. and we all know how much the devs love money. another game accused with russian bias (with the same amount of evidence (zero)), WoT had the buisness strategy of having the russian players to boost the player count, and also have the western playerbase to actually give money to the company. in fact being biased to one of the big western players in the wars would be a huge benefit, especially towards germany knowing how much the game is filled with wehraboos that would buy every new shiny german premium. "A skilled cas player being able to kill anyone doenst make it okay for one nation having more and much better AA options than other nations." that would be true (tho still not an evidence for russian bias) oif they would be actually better. they are not. they are just different from others. while they might be better than *some,* they are not better than all. this is what i like to call the "Conqueror-syndrome". looking at the statcards and fro usually a small number of factors (usually 1) they player decides that the thing must be OP, or at least significantly better than the rest. i named it after the bri'ish heavy tank Conqueror, because by looking at the statcard, you might wounder why is it only 7.7. it has everything, good armor, awesome pen, rangefinder, commander override, fast shell, okay mobility, right? *right?* actually no. the only tank with more armor holes than it is probably only the Churchill 7, it has first gen APDS at 7.7 which is just horrible, the rangefinder is useless since the accuracy is bad, fast shell becomes useless when you can't hit or pen anything, and so does the mobility when your tank can't even stop autocannons from the front in hulldown. the only thing that is not bad in it is the commander override, which is something a bunch of other tanks have at or around that BR. this is like putting a KV-2 and an ARL-44 against a Leo 2 A7, and concluding that becuase the KV-2 has more chances than the ARl, there is russian bias. both the KV-2 and the ARL are hopeless in that situation, just like an SPAA against CAS all in all people can cry about the pantsir being OP, in reality, it is not. it is just different than the others. there are countless of these situations, yet nobody is screaming bias at those. people are coping with this bias nonsense for years, yet they could not provide a single evidence. not even an evidence that would require some thinking to debunk. not even that. lastly, the better players get, the less likely it is for them to believe in russian bias. just like in real life, more education you have, the less likely it is for you to believe in various nonsense. it is almost as if having more knowledge and understanding on something makes you... *undersnad it* every time russian bias cryers tried to present evidence, it was either them not understanding how the game works, or they were lying/coping, or had confirmation bias. at the end you can believe whatever you want. but it is i who is willing to change his mid if sufficient evidence is presented. i will accept the existence of russian bias happily. just show me the evidence
@konna6130
3 ай бұрын
@@o-hogameplay185 first of german 37mm on the ostwinds & 341 has firerate of 250rpm. ZD isnt even that inaccurate when spaded. i havent had any issues against m18s or wafflers with it. 10p has the same gun a tkp, just less firerate + apds and tpk has 2, but you dont "feel" the oerlikons? zsd is op as hell. really fast rounds with good accuracy, great firerate, excellent damage and decent penetration against ground vehicles. the only thing holding it back is the small belts, but you can just aim better. they did remove flak 341, 10.5cm tiger 2 and panther 2 from the tree. conquearor is a really good tank when used correctly. i havent experienced any significant holes in the armor. shell shattering can be avoided with enough skill, but still it should be removed from the game imo. i personally havent had issues against the pant sir, because i usually fly low and just get killed by STRELAs and 2S38s instead.
@varezkinmaksim8564
3 ай бұрын
Cry me a river, little John
@semicooperative7188
3 ай бұрын
Little John? Think you're in the wrong place, friend
@xerosouls
3 ай бұрын
Would be nice to see some shenanigans like the T249 Vigilante or MIM-46 Mauler *shrugs*
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