Me, a peasant, looking on with envy as I mourn my own hard boiled wax leather and gambeson:
@kekmitkeks9328
3 ай бұрын
So relatable ong fr fr
@cameronwixcey9692
3 ай бұрын
You guys have armour? 😢
@donaldpyper4627
3 ай бұрын
@@cameronwixcey9692magic blue paint for the win!
@Jaegerrants
3 ай бұрын
Al i could afford was a helmet, shield and spear...
@majormajorasic
3 ай бұрын
Rich nobility in this comment, us poor fucks all got a sharp stick and go nude into combat
@SamlSchulze1104
3 ай бұрын
The military tried this idea with ceramic plates. It was called "dragon armor".
@melancholyman369
3 ай бұрын
Was that real?
@MajorCoolD
3 ай бұрын
@@melancholyman369 Pretty much from what I remember there were some DARPA trials, the idea was basicly rather than having regular kevlar armor reinforced with plates/ceramics that would basicly be only good for one hit but covered a sizeable area, that you'd have numerous smaller ceramic scales of sorts, that meant that the vest/armor didnt become immediatly useless as it is very unlikely that you get hit in the same exact spot several times and therefore you'd later on only need to replace the respectively broken individual scales. No clue what became of that though tbh.
@SamlSchulze1104
3 ай бұрын
@@melancholyman369 ☝🏻That's all, folks! ☝🏻
@samuelmellars7855
3 ай бұрын
@@MajorCoolD I remember some random youtube comment alleging that the damn things wouldn't stay together. It was small plates held together by a soft plastic coating, that in some conditions didn't hold the plates firmly enough, so a round could, if it hit the plate in the right spot, knock the plate loose and keep enough energy to get through. And because there were lots of plates, there were lots of right spots.
@WallNutBreaker524
3 ай бұрын
Ah, Murim. 😂
@ashina2146
3 ай бұрын
One thing about Scale Mail I once heard is that Roman Legionaries in the east would prefer Scale Armor than Chainmail mainly because it's said Scale resist Arrows and missiles much better while Chainmail are better at resisting swords and spears.
@lewiswood1693
3 ай бұрын
sort of makes sense, chain mail provides better coverage, while scale provides better protection provided the attacks don't slip between the scales ( which a well placed thrust from a sword or spear might be able to do.)
@Interrobang212
3 ай бұрын
Perfect explanation. A sword or spear is going to get around scale mail fairly easily compared to chain, which is why it was so popular in Europe.
@ashina2146
3 ай бұрын
@@Interrobang212 yep, one seen reason for Scale Armor missile resistance is all of them overlaps pointing down, where missiles will often come from above, basically sloped armor, where Chainmail are better at being both main and secondary armor since it's basically iron cloths.
@khoivo7947
3 ай бұрын
Chainmail links can be split fairly easily by powerful war bows. Scales, provided they are laid out well, will logically do much better against arrows.
@Intranetusa
3 ай бұрын
@Interrobang212. That is probably why the Romans later adopted lamellar. Lamellar has the benefits of scale with less weaknesses. Lamellar are armor plates attached to other plates at multiple points and with more overlap, so it is far less likely that swords and spears could find/dig its way around or between the scales.
@philiphockenbury6563
3 ай бұрын
That knight at the end was absolutely caked up.
@aidancrawford6706
3 ай бұрын
I was looking for this exact comment, I'm surprised it took so long lol
@andresamaya6187
3 ай бұрын
Sir Buttycheeks the Caked, the mighty clap of his armored cheeks instilled more fear in the hearts of the enemy than the roar of a hundred warhorses hooves on the ground
@silorion9967
3 ай бұрын
I hear that's actually kinda common. You want strong legs to wear all that exta weight, so...
@AnthonyRomero-w8u
2 ай бұрын
Sir Hector the well endowed 😂😂😂😂
@jart1984
Ай бұрын
All the guards in the king's castle envy his ample bottom
@DmSereb
3 ай бұрын
Scale mail is less protective against thrusts, that slide on one scale piece upwards underneath the scale piece that overlaps it
@oscaranderson5719
3 ай бұрын
yeah like that was my first thought, definitely not as effective as lamellar/brigandine which keeps the plates from flapping. important to note tho they’d all still be weak to thrusts to some degree, even plate could be penetrated in weaker areas with enough force.
@jimbokilo
3 ай бұрын
Its why in reality they reversed the overlap.
@DmSereb
3 ай бұрын
@@jimbokilo they did if their main concern was a guy with a dagger that could sneak in, but for most of the time the main threat were arrows falling down
@deadknight1402
3 ай бұрын
Which wouldn't really have been a common problem, assuming that situations where the enemy is below you (such as fighting on sloped ground with the enemy lower down, or defending a wall from the battlements or such) wouldn't be too common. Having the low ground is scale armour's advantage. Though there were designs which included a way to fasten the scales at the bottom to prevent that.
@neist4361
3 ай бұрын
if scale isn't effective, chainmail is completely useless against thrust attacks
@syafiqulinnuha
3 ай бұрын
God wearing them in summer must feel like oven
@xLionsxxSmithyx
3 ай бұрын
Ah, that's whatbthe Visor is for, open it up in summer.
@PresidentFunnyValentine
3 ай бұрын
@@xLionsxxSmithyxyou still in an oven, just with better air circulation lol.
@xLionsxxSmithyx
3 ай бұрын
@@PresidentFunnyValentine 😂
@augustuslunasol10thapostle
3 ай бұрын
@@xLionsxxSmithyx so a air fryer?
@stevesmith9617
3 ай бұрын
Imagine the smell...
@TheDJdragonflame
3 ай бұрын
"Was scale mail better than chain mail? Sometimes!" *Proceeds to not mention any disadvantage*
@melancholyman369
3 ай бұрын
Probably less durable and vulnerable to blunt weaponry.
@hypotheticalaxolotl
3 ай бұрын
@@melancholyman369 Maybe, but he still didn't... say that. That's kind of the point.
@samuelmellars7855
3 ай бұрын
If someone is stabbing _up_ at you, you have a serious problem. The scales are not going to be very protective in that scenario. Slightly less flexible than normal chainmail too, I think
@spoutnik7703
3 ай бұрын
upward thrust
@Eserchie
Ай бұрын
Weight. Scale weighs about twice what Chain does for the same coverage area.
@xjilnuz3495
3 ай бұрын
I like these thought provocking debates. It may not have a clear answer, but it does exercise the mind. Its like comparing an AK47 (and variants) and M16 (and variants)
@AntonioPerez-wf2lf
3 ай бұрын
And just like those debates, it seems like it's what you want specifically. Want protection from arrows and slicing? Chainmail. Going again clubs, maces, and flails? Scaled sounds better.
@deityjc
3 ай бұрын
Kinda but not really. Both the AK47 and M16 had pretty similar purposes and advantages. A better comparison would be automatic rifles vs shotguns.
@dragon12234
3 ай бұрын
@@AntonioPerez-wf2lf scale was arguably better against arrows than chain, at least bodkin type arrows, as they couldn't pierce the rings and split them open. However, scale was also heavier and couldn't be placed over joints like chain could
@ekilnotpoven
3 ай бұрын
Id say scale mail is better based on its vibe, close but a little bit cooler
@Intranetusa
3 ай бұрын
@dragon12234 I think there may be classical Roman Empire era scale armor (maybe it was Dacian armor) with scales that have short sleeves that protects the upper limbs. Either way, this is probably why the Romans later adopted lamellar and why lamellar was used more than scale in places like East Asia. Lamellar connects plate to plate at multiple points and doesn't need a backing, allowing it to cover limbs more easily. There are lamellar armors with full armor sleeves that goes down to the elbows and some even to the hands like a full chainmail hauberk.
@vepersuper9183
3 ай бұрын
One of the disadvantages of scale armour was that the opponent could stab you upwards and get a blade between two scales. That wouldn't be the case in chain mail because the rings work the same in all directions. But there are different techniques of making scale armour. Long and expensive-one is made in such a way that the scales are connected by rings which form some kind of chain mail below a scale mail and would probably protect you against upward stabs. The cheaper and easier is that you just sew scales on gambeson and in that case it would be easier to put a knife between two scales all the way through.
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
Some patterns of scale armor such as those from the late Roman Empire have scales reinforced with 4 stitches on top making it almost impossible to slide under
@Papadragon18
2 ай бұрын
To actually do that you'd have to get very close, and manage to bypass the opponent's shield. Which wouldn't be easy while he and all his buddies around him are poking at you with their spears.
@hiimryan2388
2 ай бұрын
@@Papadragon18 the main problem is that arrows and especially crossbow bolts may cause the scales to slide around.
@colinwalker6804
3 ай бұрын
TLDR: -Chain Mail = AC 15 -Scale Mail = AC 16 with disadvantage to stealth - Plate Armor = AC 18 with strength 15 requirement.
@DerekIcelord
3 ай бұрын
Interestingly, full plate didn't require that much strength. The armor was designed such that when properly worn it distributed the weight very evenly over the wearer's body. Think holding a heavy backpack vs wearing it with the straps properly adjusted.
@daefaron
3 ай бұрын
@@DerekIcelordalso typically custom made if talking about full suits.
@JoseKobeC.Sanchez
3 ай бұрын
@@DerekIcelord welcome to the world of unrealistically high stat requirements. One thing I need more points to Int to cast spells, the next thing, I gotta have to allocate more to phakin Cons just not to die from the sheer madness of it all.
@PolymurExcel
3 ай бұрын
@@DerekIcelordright, it wouldn’t be a strength requirement, it would more realistically either be dexterity or endurance requirement. Cause a battle ready suit of plate armor is at most 50 lbs? The lighter leaning towards 30lbs. But that would be a whole lot more taxing, cause overheating and such.
@jerryseinfeld6283
3 ай бұрын
@@DerekIcelord I took a "King Arthur in Art, Literature, and History" class in college and the professor had a collection of replica armors brought in for us to try on after finals and it was actually shocking how easy the platemail was to move around in (if you were the approximate right size) and the chainmail was actually way more difficult
@jpanderson2569
3 ай бұрын
“Sometimes.” History in a nutshell.
@KiraiKatsuji
2 ай бұрын
Practically Everything in a nutshell*
@burnttoast26
Ай бұрын
"It depends" is the most realistic answer that can be applied to most questions like this
@reilley26
3 ай бұрын
I'd love to see you do a video breaking down the accuracy of different armor and weapons in D&D or similar games
@Citizen-Nurseman
3 ай бұрын
QUESTION - Most people go on about which armour is better in what circumstance. However I've always wondered the medieval industrial technology capability factored in. i.e. does each one require specific training, or would the village blacksmith 'figure it out' between horseshoes, does each one require a different quality of metal; so if a Lord wanted to outfit his men in 'the best' would they need to have the support of both a good supply of raw materials, expertise etc or do you just send off an order to the dude in the big city, and what u buy is more about what u can afford?
@eddapultstab2078
3 ай бұрын
That's a good question. Scale Mail would be technically easier to make, few specialized tools required, but more time intensive for the Smith. Chainmail was popular because the Smith could focus on drawing the wire to make the chain, which required a unique tool to do the job quickly and consistently. After the wire is made apprentices can do the simple and tedious process of making the rings and either the Smith or best apprentice rivet the rings together into a mesh. Mind you riveted mail performs far better than non riveted and there are processes that mint the rings like coins like in the middle east. I don't know if scale performs overall better than chain but from what I have read and discussed that chain was easier to mass manufacture which made it the winner in the armor war because even a cheap piece of sub optimal armor is better than no armor at all, not to say if chain mail is bad just it's a common choice for a reason.
@amirhosseinmaghsoodi388
2 ай бұрын
Scale and Mail don't require much skill to make but they're very time consuming. Plate requires more skill but I'm unsure how long it takes.
@theOGjaaxter
2 ай бұрын
Not mentioned in the video, due to lack of time, no doubt, but a chief drawback of scale armor was that the scales had to be laced or wired into a textile backing, so the armor was effectively a cloth shirt with iron scales. That's all well and good (you wouldn't wear chain directly against the skin, after all) until it gets wet and you realize it's going to stay wet for a while and get pretty gross without an easy way to wash it. In addition, the lacing was something of a weak point, especially if the textiles were rotting, since the thread or wire was more likely to break and shed the scale (or row of scales) from the shirt than it would be for a riveted iron ring in chain armor to break.
@Blaze21iz
3 ай бұрын
Watching Stak slowly more and more become a full time medieval lower noble has been a wild arc
@ravenguard0098
3 ай бұрын
The evolution of armour and weapons really depends a lot on what kind combat enviroment the culture has and what resources do they have. There is no tech tree like seen in games.
@mondaysinsanity8193
3 ай бұрын
Except for plate. Plate really is just better
@oscaranderson5719
3 ай бұрын
@@mondaysinsanity8193if you don’t have a lot of iron tho…
@mondaysinsanity8193
3 ай бұрын
@@oscaranderson5719 I mean that's a bit different lolol that's no different of course the best stuff is the most expensive. If we're talking outfitting an army that's a different thought too. But if you're some mercenary shopping for armor your saving up for plate no matter what except maybe if your at sea alot
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
@@mondaysinsanity8193yes and no, if your a archer for example you really can’t wear full plate unless you remove the shoulder pauldrons. More over by the time plate armor is even less ventilated than other armor like lamellar so you would overheat in warmer places
@mondaysinsanity8193
3 ай бұрын
@@hiimryan2388 a. Depends on the armor plate armor is always custom. B. In truly hot places heat is controlled not by reducing clothing but by insulation wear some light robes over it all and it's just weight that's the difference.
@danielmacgregor6245
3 ай бұрын
When I teach my students about armor, I explain it like this: the bigger your metal pieces, the harder it is to get the right fit and also have good coverage, which makes it more expensive. From what I've read, it seems like scale is older than chain.
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
Scale is definitely older, chainmail was first used butted by the celts after the Bronze Age collapse while scale has been used since like forever as it could be made from leather
@scottk9273
3 ай бұрын
One of the biggest benefits of chain mail often looked over is its flexibility and ease of replacement.
@cement_mixer7395
24 күн бұрын
And it's really breathable
@trevorreece6999
3 ай бұрын
The blunt attack makes sense but I have always been under the impression that the main reason for scale male was it it better at shedding arrows aimed at it.
@Peaches-i2i
3 ай бұрын
I made a set once from high carbon steel scales. It's just insanely heavy and noisy. Chain is plenty loud and heavy itself, scale is worse. It lacks the flexibility of chain too and there are weak gaps if you can slide a blade underneath the scales. It resists straight on blows better than chain, but still not as good as plates. Having the scales hang by a single point also seems like a weakness, not a wonder why lamellar was used all over the world for as long as chainmail while scale wasn't all too common.
@samuelmendoza9356
3 ай бұрын
regarding weight, was this complemented by wearing belts to shift some weight to the waist? It won't make them lighter obviously, but at least not dump it all to the shoulders.
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
Lamellar didn't last as long as maille. It largely went away by the end of the medieval period. Both the middle east and far east has switched to plated maille or brigandine as their "stiffer than maille" armor.
@samuelmendoza9356
Ай бұрын
@@majungasaurusaaaa Considering the plate n' maille's main fasthener is the chain ring themselves, it sure is easier to maintain compared to lacings used to tie lamellar together.
@Amen6magi
3 ай бұрын
Parthian:use them together 🗿
@einarr7301
3 ай бұрын
chain with a gambeson provides excellent defense against concussive attacks. the spike end of a warhammer is what excelled at piercing mail and gambeson and punching a nice hole into somebody, not the hammer end. while thrusting is in fact the weakness of chain, its still not easy. chain is surprisingly more resistant to thrusts than people give it credit for. its still the best way to defeat chain, but again, its not easy. mail will stop thrusts, and you need to really deliver a strong thrust to go through the armor. its not as rock-paper-scissory as one may think. skallagrim even did a pretty good demonstration against a ballistic head and torso. he put a padded coif and a mail coif on the head, struck it with a sword, and then inspected the damage. the skull was still fractured through the mail and gambeson. and remember, that was with just a sword! a weapon that doesnt deliver nearly as much blunt force as other common weapons like a pole axe or a warhammer. its not until you put a steel skull cap over the padded coif and under the mail coif that your skull wont crack from the force of a sword swing. this is how they actually did it back then, and plenty of period sources corroborate this.
@totallynotcass7732
2 ай бұрын
Glad to see vintage story got their armor on point
@sergarlantyrell7847
3 ай бұрын
Simply based on the prevalence of these 2 types of armour, I would say history tells us mail was better overall.
@AT78146
3 ай бұрын
Me imagining the guy trying to get all the bonuses by wearing the different kinds under one another. Only to wind up very weighed down.
@paragonaesir1957
3 ай бұрын
Usually while wearing chain mail you would have a gamberson underneath, this would offer good enough protection for a few blunt attacks, and the chain would protect agaisnt slashing attacks. What the Chain Mail fails at is piercing, such as arrows and spears when compared to scale that protect against this better, aswell as blunt. When you mention plate at the end, it did indeed offer the best protection, which is why the knights would try and force their opponent on the ground and stick their bladed weapon between the plates, or if they only had a Hammer, crush their armor.
@anglosaxaphone672
2 ай бұрын
though more significantly in the times it was used at least in the Roman Empire, that it was the production ease that gave it its continued use, though mail was still greatly preferred...
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
Scale prolly went away as lamellar was introduced from the east.
@tommyyaeger6162
3 ай бұрын
You know what’s funny is that armor and weapons are basically just a game of who can counter each other better
@pootyting3311
3 ай бұрын
Arms racing over history...
@thegoodtimesroll
3 ай бұрын
Thank you for mentioning Lamellar. I was just thinking, what about the square plate layered armor. I don't know the names😅
@zekeolopwi6642
3 ай бұрын
Not to mention, the construction method used generally allowed for thrusts up between the scales to penetrate easier that with chainmail. Not saying it was easy. Just easier relative to mail. Give and take 🤷🏽♂️
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
Yes and no, by the time of the late Roman Empire scales had 4 stitches instead of the previous 2 making upward thrusts nearly impossible unless your really digging for it
@zekeolopwi6642
3 ай бұрын
@hiimryan2388 It depends on the scales location within the weave pattern. And like I said anyways, it's not just flat out easy, even with earlier pattern designs. If it was so easy people wouldn't have worn it. It's just that it was a minor internal flaw in exchange for the benefit of more structure. Same with mail and it's lack of structure.
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
@@zekeolopwi6642 honestly I agree I was just trying to add on.
@zekeolopwi6642
3 ай бұрын
@hiimryan2388 Yeh same with my reply to you hahaha 😂. Just a nerd thing to get stuck in on the specifics lol.
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
@@zekeolopwi6642 lol same. Ever since summer vacation started I just got much more time to comment haha
@Ellie-jx8jt
3 ай бұрын
One advantage that chainmail has over scalemail is moveability, scales can only bend one way, but chains can bend however You want. This was probably not a HUGE deal, but i imagine chainmail would be more comfortable to wear.
@aryanwitheredone
3 ай бұрын
Basically how Sassanian Aswar Cataphracts beated Parthian Grivpanvar Cataphracts
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
And much easier to maintain. A maille shirt will last far, far longer than a scale shirt with its rotting organic backing.
@aodhstormeyes
3 ай бұрын
I remember as a kid coming up with scale mail as an armor concept and thinking that nobody had ever thought of it, not doing any research into the concept and being so pleased with myself... god I wish I were still that naïve sometimes.
@bungeetoons
2 ай бұрын
If I remember the test right, scale mail doesn't protect against penetration as much as riveted chain mail.
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
It's cheaper and quicker to make. That's about it. Properly made rivetted maille was just as protective as anything short of heated plate armor.
@hishamg
2 ай бұрын
Great video. At risk of sounding pedantic though (which I am) it’s just scale armour and mail. I suspect this may have been covered in earlier videos; mail just means armour made out of interlocking rings, usually iron, although brass rings were also used for decorative edging etc.
@kanmeridoc1784
3 ай бұрын
Instructions clear, bought full plate woth chainmail and gambeson underneath.
@allenseeallendo5844
3 ай бұрын
This actually makes a ton of sense. You should do a deep dive on the American dragon armor. Theres a lot of controversy around it. Your explanation of distribution of a hit makes sense but allegedly they say that wasn’t a problem.
@pakman184
3 ай бұрын
If you're talking about the modern dragonscale, the whole thing was a massive scam. It catastrophically failed it's trials in adverse enviromental conditions and then the company disappeared.
@allenseeallendo5844
3 ай бұрын
@@pakman184 Yeah but it didn’t though. It failed one test when it was left dipped in a 55 gallon drum of diesel fuel. They said the threading failed not the ceramic or the Spaulding protection.
@schwoondoggle
2 ай бұрын
"Did you get laid?" Lmaooo. Clear as water in the words of the master himself.
@dawall3732
2 ай бұрын
Scale mail was more of a cheaper answer to arrows. That's it. That's what scale mail was designed for. Is it a perfect defense for that? No. However, it's a league better than chain mail. Also, it's actually cheaper to make, less time intensive. It could be produced far better than chain mail, so they made that.
@thebordoshow
3 ай бұрын
Scale has a huge weakness though. You can get through the gaps if you thrust from below, as scales ovelap on top and leave a weak point from below. Not good when you're on horseback and fighting someone with a spear. Chainmail doesn't have this problem. But it has others.
@paulellington1505
2 ай бұрын
I loved the scale mail armor that the Blackfish wore in GoT
@radosaworman7628
3 ай бұрын
Fun fact. In some parts of PLC winged hussars preffered scale mail to standard couriass as it gave better coverage at a cost of frontal protection against musket rounds. Most popular among nobility of modern day Belorus. That obviously had to be reflected with tactic (as they could not do some of the Swiss army tactics they where used to) so to reflect that they where calling themselves "armoured commrades" (towarzysz pancerni) instead of "hussar commrades" (towarzysz hussarski). Quite obviously choice of scale mail limited them from frontal charge on musketeer lines, engaging as in couriasseer tacticts against actual couriasseers but probably didn't limit their effectiveness in hand to hand combat, or limiting their effectiveness against Turkish style horse archers.
@darklordgrif
3 ай бұрын
This issue with scale mail is that, while better than regular maille in a lot of aspects, it took far longer to make, required more advanced metallurgy to make the small plates of good enough quality to be better, was far harder to maintain, and much heavier and easier to get dirty. Scale has most of its drawbacks in construction and maintenance, like lamellar. Also, if a blow or attack struck up and underneath the scales they effectively didn't do much of anything for you.
@jameswilliams3581
3 ай бұрын
I wonder how well Roman armor compared with medieval armor I saw a video where the the Roman lorica actually kept a ballista from penetrating. But I am sure the person wearing it wouldn’t have been a happy camper. 😂
@dascommissar5264
3 ай бұрын
For scale/lamellar it’s all about the backing. You can either make it tougher or more breathable, not both.
@MagicalMaster
3 ай бұрын
Different tools for different occasions. There are some situations where a Gambison alone is enough. For those that don't know a Gambison is a padded coat UNDER most armour to keep it off your skin and disperse impacts better. They were so well layered they could stop a knife slash.
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
The padded undercoat was a lot thinner than the gambeson. The medieval people would call it "aketon" or "arming doublet". It was far thinner than a gambeson, which was meant to be stand alone armor and was stiff, heavy and very bulky and certainly wouldn't fit under a metal armor suit.
@matthewdodd1262
2 ай бұрын
I completely understand the concept that types of armour were better and worse than others depending on the situation. Which would be the best overall armour to serve as a 'jack-of-all-trades'? Won't be the best, but will hold up decently enough in whatever situation your in
@PRESIDENT_LEMON
3 ай бұрын
Except at the times when scalemail and chainmail were in the hight of their use we didn't have the technology to build plate armour, which is actually the reason lamilar was invented, we couldn't make strong enough body sized plates so we made smaller plates and stacked them.
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
Early forms of plate armor can be seen from miceanean charioteer armor tho
@PRESIDENT_LEMON
3 ай бұрын
@hiimryan2388 are you talking about Dendra armor? If so then no not really, that would more be considered something like lamilar since the whole armour is one big piece all together, the extra layers can't be removed they are woven into the armour it's self where as in plate armour you have one big solid plate that covers you, anything else added on would be attached rather than an integral piece of the armour. Massive plates does not mean plate armour, plate armour is a big plate that covers the user, this is just lamilar with thick plates.
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
@@PRESIDENT_LEMON If that's the case then do you consider lorica segmentata plate armor or do you consider it lamellar armor? another thing to add is that for lamellar armor also have detachable pieces so that doesn't make sense (both have detachable pauldrons and for lamellar sometimes the thigh protection and small chest plate is detachable).
@PRESIDENT_LEMON
3 ай бұрын
@@hiimryan2388 Lorica segmentata definatly doesnt count as plate armour and is more of something akin to lamilar just with larger overlapping plates. and yes there are detachable pieces in the dendra armour, what I was bringing up is the lower section isn't a detachable piece, it is woven into the upper chest covering (if you look at the artefacts they actually dug up and not some reproductions people have made) this would make it more akin to lorica segmentata. but I will concede some points that there are some of what we might call plate armour in the ancient era, like the muscle cuirass, but even though these armours existed other types of armour like chainmail and lamilar were preferred as it costed a lot of money to make plate and these things were much more easy to repair.
@hiimryan2388
3 ай бұрын
@@PRESIDENT_LEMON curissasses of later periods also have non detachable thigh protection tho
@williamhinton3251
3 ай бұрын
Scale is, as many have already mentioned, vulnerable to upward stabs. In addition, it tended to be less flexible than chain, so it could only reasonably be used on the torso. You'd need to add on more protection with chain or plate arm and leg armor. Possible for knights or the more organized Romans, not so much for a less well funded levy or man at arms
@zetsumeimaru
3 ай бұрын
A good thing to look at is Roman armor, as plate, scale, and maille were all used at roughly the same time.
@dr.zoidberg8666
2 ай бұрын
When I look at scalemail my first thought it "Angle your blade slightly up to slide between the scales."
@F_S_Spyglass
2 ай бұрын
Scale mail was a significant upgrade because underneath all the padding it was good at deflecting arrows after penetrating the flat surface because chain mail was very weak against arrows. That's why scale mail was originally invented historically
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
Scale was invented long before maille. And no, maille wasn't weak against arrows. Only the modern junk is.
@dequitem
2 ай бұрын
He has no clue. Chain mail protects you quite well against blunt attacks and is most over the better armor against thrusts. So actually most warriors would call the chain mail an upgrade! Greetings Dequitem
@seanmorgan2356
3 ай бұрын
I have a scale mail tunic made from an old butchers apron. But something long and narrow, like a stiletto or small daggers, can easily get between the scales and find the vital gooie bits.
@flippityfloppity6213
3 ай бұрын
Love how armor evolved to where crossbows and arrows didnt work. Where guns came in. Then armor eventually came.back
@WallNutBreaker524
3 ай бұрын
Stakuyi should do a deep dive into Medieval Arms and Armor. Middle Age Europe is a treasure trove of historical information.
@seanthermes3707
Ай бұрын
As Thomas Sowell says, "There are no solutions in life, only trade-offs! ". Same applies to armour designs 🤷🏻
@Name-ru3di
3 ай бұрын
It does kind of make me wonder how sweaty these things could get, I just imagine some medieval knight complaining about it on some summer day.
@DamnedUsernameThing
3 ай бұрын
Underneath armor like chainmail and plate (and probably scale and lamellar too) is a thick, heavy insulating coat called a gambeson usually made of wool, the purpose of which is to absorb blunt force impacts as well as to prevent chafing in the case of chainmail. Then you put on your layer of heavy metal armor over it. It's gonna get really hot fighting for several hours in that getup.
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
We have accounts of napoleonic cuirassiers complaining how hot and heavy their armor was. And they were wearing far less than medieval heavy cavalry. But during medieval times, the armor was guaranteed to help you do your job and survive. And it was an expensive status symbol so people didn't complain. Napoleonic cuirassiers were standard issued their cuirasses and their effectiveness was situational at best. Hence the "do I really have to wear this crap?" attitude.
@ivmi1702
3 ай бұрын
Its also harder to pierce since you have actually break a scale isntead of squeezing trough or cracking a ring
@wolfmanhcc
2 ай бұрын
I had always heard chain for slashing, plate for piercing, and padding for blunt.
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
Every armor resisted puncture. If an armor only resisted slashing it's useless and a waste of time, material and weight.
@eerohongisto821
3 ай бұрын
The problem i see with scale armor is weakness to thrust attacks, it basically has nothing protecting from things that get under/between the scales.
@jesuscallsmeflo1189
3 ай бұрын
Scalemaille in difference to Chainmaille was sawn on a Shirt like leather or linnen. The disadvantage of scales where that a thrust could slide unser the scales and pierce the wearer without ressistance
@ry8539
3 ай бұрын
This is where this dude is in his element. He lacks the eloquence to tell broad history stories. But when it is some specific question about a weapon or armour he is spot on.
@pvp6077
21 күн бұрын
Disadvantage: blades could more easily slide up under the scales for penetration compared to chain. That's it. Main difference is scale is better vs long range or bludgeoning attacks, chain is better vs close range blades.
@krystofcisar469
2 ай бұрын
scale armour offers great protection and looks badass - only downside is when you had to reapir it, then its the rason why chainmail was most used armour for more than 1000years.
@bellakaldera3305
Ай бұрын
I've worn both scale and mail, Scale is noisier, but sheds the rain much better, it is also likely more comfortable, though mail is more flexible, Plate is the least flexible but supports it's own weight better. However, plate dents, scale and mail don't retain big dents, once that breastplate is bent in half, all you can do with it is to cook in it.
@daviedood2503
3 ай бұрын
Chain mail, with scale mail on top, then finally a suit of full body amor. = Robocop of medieval time 🤘🤣🔥
@Ben-fk9ey
3 ай бұрын
Scale mail does win in the fashion department imo.
@slyllamademon2652
Ай бұрын
Did you know that the US Military was pitched Scale Mail style body armor for their soldiers but it failed because of a design flaw? (They used Adhesive to stick parts of it together and that would fail in hot weather)
@qu1ll380
2 ай бұрын
Thanks I thought scale mail was exclusively a fantasy thing bc it never occured to me you could make metal scales. I thought they were like dragon scales only.
@isi2973
3 ай бұрын
It is important to note that scale armor and mail existed in the same time period, we have no archeological evidence (to my knowlege) for scale armor in the roman-german empire, which would later be known as the HRE. There are a few images of what looks like scale armor in western sources (most prominently the Codex Manesse i.e. große Heidelberger Liederhandschrift), but it is unclear if those really show scale armor. As far as we can say scale was only really used in the byzantine sphere of influence, while mail was used in both the HRE and byzantium.
@UnprofessionalFlicks
3 ай бұрын
Skallagrim did a good video on the weaknesses of scale mail. It doesn't work so well against upward thrusts
@mr.static380
2 ай бұрын
I believe it was also better against piercing attacks meant to exploit the fact that piercing chainmail only meant breaking one chain loop. I believe it lacked popularity due to an extremely high price tag, due to the skill needed to make such armour however.
@normalhuman9878
3 ай бұрын
Was not expecting to find out Claude is secretly Ebirah
@jaytomioka3137
3 ай бұрын
I think the primary advantage of scale mail was as a status symbol and possibly better protection from arrows arching from above.
@pootyting3311
3 ай бұрын
Status symbol... It does indeed look cool.
@jamesbaggett7223
3 ай бұрын
I dabble in Buhurt on a rookie level. Learned about this in an all vs all fight a few weeks ago. My opponent used a “suicide takedown “ and yoinked me down so I fell onto his chest. I was wearing a standard brigandine and he was wearing lamellar chest armor. He literally said “WHHHHHHOOOOOOFFFF” when I landed as it smushed all the air out of him. I was fine
@palerider4582
3 ай бұрын
I bought the suit of armor he shows in the end. It came with the sword, but not the feathers. It was only 800 bucks
@IberianCraftsman
2 ай бұрын
you can make scale armor using bottlecaps flattened with a hammer
@henrykkeszenowicz4664
2 ай бұрын
Yes. Scale armor has better aesthetics, and if I were to serve something like Roman Empire, I'd pick Lorica Squamata.
@CrowleySmith-vz3nq
2 ай бұрын
The only problem is it made you heavier show the Cena crack in your suit of armor finally buzzed out can take advantage out of that
@grizzlyblackpowder1960
2 ай бұрын
I always just say that scale was adopted too late for its purpose, or that it was too expensive for its earlier time periods
@psssshhh7730
3 ай бұрын
Scale was a very early form of armor and a very quickly abandoned one for many reasons. The geometry of the scales made them nearly useless against blades running against the direction of the scales. More, the size of the scale - while better for absorbing impact energy - also caused more torque to fall on fewer links, meaning its would be easier to break them. Scale armor is good vs slashing and cutting, but thats about it. Mail - riveted that is - distributes the force it takes over very many links very quickly and ends up more durable than scale. At the very least sword and spear thrusts were less effective vs mail than scale, until swords and spears had their shape optimized to penetrate the individual rings in mail. The Romans and Arabs used coats of mail as a base layer and would add scale armor to the torso and shoulders to better resist arrows - since scale with a good backing is ultimately more effective.
@AodhanBeag
Ай бұрын
Tell that to Rhaegar Targayen, he felt the full force of Roberts warhammer and no armour was protecting against the fury of the trident
@linuxares
3 ай бұрын
This been on my mind and would be fun for you to answer maybe. How did knights from the olden days protect their weapons against rust?
@JAREALI
3 ай бұрын
I have made both. Scale armor requires a base of chain male to attach the scales to. One is simply an upgraded version of the other.
@Claymore790
3 ай бұрын
Eh, cheaper versions used leather as the backer, so it would be almost like stair steps as far as advancement. The chain backed scale weighed much more than leather backed, but offered more protection.
@Fictionfactory555
3 ай бұрын
So that’s the type of armor that Tullies are wearing in Game of Thrones
@letmeeatcake7836
3 ай бұрын
Scale maille and chain maille are both a historical terms invented for role playing games.
@garrettschienschang7898
3 ай бұрын
Next do brigandine compared to these
@Brettskei
3 ай бұрын
Chainmail is more protection from piercing than blunt force if I remember correctly.
@elsenorloco84
3 ай бұрын
Scale mail was that drip 💧
@jamesmclemore9123
3 ай бұрын
That museum display you showed wasn't scale mail- it was a tunic made from the pelt of an animal called a pangolin that grows large overlapping fingernail-like scales from it's skin (they're basically real-life sandshrews from Pokémon). If I remember right that particular piece was a gift to king George III, and if you've never heard of or seen a pangolin before it's probably because every species is endangered. They are the most heavily poached mammal in the world because traditional medicines in several African and Asian countries claim that the scales provide a myriad of health benefits, despite it being common knowledge that they're made of the exact same substance as hair and fingernails and hooves of every other mammal on the planet.
@mayapilkey3577
3 ай бұрын
Issue with scale is if they stab upwards it's more likely to go through
@dumpsterchild5734
3 ай бұрын
If I remember I think chainmail was a cheaper option but still armor I think it was a higher cost a lot more
@dwwolf4636
2 ай бұрын
Scale armor's biggest problem is that the scales can shift and sometimes attacks slip through. Especially if you are say a rider bring attacked from the ground.
@Loafbread9817
22 күн бұрын
The other advantage of scales and lamellar particularly if you lived in china of a place that made contact with it the Chinese we’re able to make almost needle like crossbow bolts that can fit in the gaps of chain mail that’s why after the Chinese find chain mail they barely use it if at all
@Esqueletrons
3 ай бұрын
Plate armor is basically scale armor but bigger scales
@MrJustonemorevoice
3 ай бұрын
Short answer is "Yes, unless someone stabs upward"
@Kyryyn_Lyyh
2 ай бұрын
Looks cooler, question answered.
@abyssalgaming9315
3 ай бұрын
Not to mention the more obvious advantage that doesn't really get said is with chainmail a rapier little point could get past the rings making up the chainmail. Well skill Mill could pretty much just face paint that constantly though if you're smart you wouldn't use a rapier against someone scalemale armor
@majungasaurusaaaa
Ай бұрын
The modern crap has rings too large in diameter. That's why you should never draw conclusions based on junk tests on how properly made historical maille performed.
@DoggyBonez722
Ай бұрын
Exactly, just like if a whole company SF dudes stepped up to some Knights they’ll obviously have far wipeout armor but they have essentially zero protection against both ranged went meme troops even with level 4 later front, back and side SAPI in their carriers. We had all these different armies tic protect/help soldiers in their specific jobs as well, many empires at the time fielded entirely volunteer armies although this would often leave them with untrained and cowardly soldiers in battle. Smh.
@CrimsonGuard1992
3 ай бұрын
What was the weight difference between scale and mail? I also heard it was possible to bypass the protection of the scale armour by thrusting the point of your weapon upwards, going in between the gaps of the scales.
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