As an old Cherokee pilot, this one ticks me off. The older, more experienced, richer, hot rod twin pilot comes blasting in like an X15 to an uncontrolled airport where the less experienced, new pilot is doing training touch and goes around and around the pattern. The hot rod twin pilot automatically assumes that his hot rod status gives him priority. A Cessna 150 is about the slowest bird out there, and it's so slow that after watching the twin barreling down on him, he couldn't even get out of the way. Airplanes are hard to see in ground clutter. The twin pilot was careless and reckless barging straight in to a pattern where he knew there were at least two other airplanes flying "normal" rectangular patterns. How was he going to stop anyway? Chop power, shock cool engines, dump the flaps, dump the gear, plop it down and stand on the brakes? The 152 pilot should have made an emergency steep turn away from the extended center line of the runway to get away from the twin pilot, but who wants to steep turn away from somebody you can no longer see when you're only a few hundred feet in the air? We're not crop duster pilots! Standard pattern entry at uncontrolled airports is recommended for just this reason. Straight in approaches are always subject to higher risk. There's a reason such a high percentage of mid air collisions happen on short final! Great job as usual Juan!
@johnemerson1363
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if a dive toward the ground and a medium steep left turn would have cleared the twin? I have a lot of time in Cessna 150/152's and that is all I can think of. Try to go down and away.
@nickmues437
2 жыл бұрын
Geof, as a 11000 hour CFI, I think you dead on spot. The Airman's Information Manual states, aircraft are to enter uncontrolled airports at a 45 degree to downwind leg only. Any other leg, then they should yield to any aircraft that they are creating a conflict with. Just because they have a more expensive aircraft does not give them the right of way. The 340 is guilty of "careless and reckless operation of an aircraft". In other words, he is 'Dead wrong'.
@shermancouch9964
2 жыл бұрын
Geoffrey, as an old Grumman pilot, I share all those emotions and I share your chop on this. I'm sure you've been in this situation and after a near disaster having gone to the "X15 pilot" with too much testosterone and had a chat with the offender on the ramp after turning off the aluminum fans. My experiences in those conversations has been mixed. Sometimes my inner drill sergeant did the talking. In other cases my plodding detective Columbo did the talking. Regardless of who does the talking, I like to tell them something like this: "Five decades of flight experience talking here, I've seen this before, I know how it ends - you probably think you're going to live forever, but you're wrong. You think you're lucky, but fate will catch you. If you don't change, I can see how it ends for you." I really hate these moments.
@dannyphillips1956
2 жыл бұрын
As an 1800-hour pilot, I only do straight ins when the tower says so. at my home field I always flew the correct approaches just because of Idiots like this.
@tobiaswichert4843
2 жыл бұрын
@Geoffrey Arnold Exactly my thoughts!
@tombrown108
2 жыл бұрын
Having abandoned flying after forty years I still listen to every word from Juan. What a service to the profession his insights. Truly unique. Once as I was about to rotate in a 150 at a small field much to my surprise a twin Barron was about to land from downwind. The Barron pilot was never on the radio and did not have any idea where he was.
@tombrown108
2 жыл бұрын
@@georgyporgy777 two mini strokes
@AviationJeremy
2 жыл бұрын
“I see you, you’re behind me.” “I’m gonna go around ’cause you’re coming at me pretty quick man.” The 152 pilot clearly had sufficient situational awareness to be looking back, and was trying to get out of the way. My suspicion is that the 152 pilot heard the twin pilot call 10 mile final, and thought that he could safely make another touch and go and still be out of the way. He clearly didn’t think that the twin would be coming in so fast. Why would he? Why would anyone? Plus, legally, he had right of way.
@dermick
2 жыл бұрын
You are absolutely right, 10 miles out would normally mean you have 5 mins at least, which is enough time for a full pattern in a 150. The thing that comes with experience is to know that a twin on a straight-in approach will probably do everything they can to avoid a normal pattern, so the thing that I would have done - not saying that the 150 guy did anything wrong - is to announce an extended downwind to let the straight-in go in front. We have to accept the reality of how some of these guys fly, to keep ourselves safe.
@j700jam4
2 жыл бұрын
@@dermick the C150 guy was probably TYRO and had already announced base, he should have just powered up straight through the extended centre line of final. Ah, the benefit of hind sight.
@fightingforfaith3541
2 жыл бұрын
"Why would he?" Spot on. This poor kid was doing what he was trained to do. No way he had any idea this idiot was barreling in on him that fast. You can't tell how fast an object is going at that distance, but clearly the 152 pilot knew the 340 was way to fast to be on a full-stop final, unfortunately too late.
@outwiththem
2 жыл бұрын
These guys are blaming the c150. With cowards like these, suckking the bigger airplanes like girls, USa GA will never be safe in the pattern. The faster guys know how coward the others are. the "I will zoom you coward girls" kind of BULLY will continue Showboating to others. You promote that. My CFI slapped a guy that zoomed him. The guy learned not to do that again, and even become a better pilot too and a friend of all.
@ScottZinkerman
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you as always for your professional and thorough report. This is reason 25 why I stopped flying as a private pilot. I’ve been in this exact scenario at least three or four times. In all cases I extended my downwind in anticipation of the faster aircraft. I absolutely despise straight in approaches at uncontrolled controlled fields. This guy came screaming in because he didn’t feel like waiting in line with everybody else. The Cessna did everything right and ultimately cost him his life. He monitored and communicated on the frequency and scanned for traffic, and recognize the threat and decided to go around. This one just makes me mad. Rest In Peace
@encinobalboa
2 жыл бұрын
152 made the right decision to go around and call it on radio. 340 should have immediately done the same.
@NicolaW72
2 жыл бұрын
Yes.
@rael5469
2 жыл бұрын
Scott, I am not a pilot but the ONE time I went up with an acquaintance who just got his license, he had to peel out of the pattern because of another pilot who wasn't communicating his actions.
@ascha2l
2 жыл бұрын
I remember flying into Elstree airport near London as a student in a 152, also no ATC at that time, and my instructor told me a few days previously a Grumman Tiger (low wing) had landed on top of a student 152 (high wing) as they came into land. No radio calls from the Tiger, 152 normal calls. Luckily no one was hurt but the wheels came through the 152 roof and barely missed the student. One of the many reasons I also no longer fly.
@magconpres
2 жыл бұрын
I agree that the 152 pilot did everything right, but I'm a student myself. During my training my instructor has called to other pilots more than once to notify them there are other aircraft in the pattern and to request the join on thw downwind leg. A direct call like this to the twin may have avoided this tragedy.
@etops8086
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly I'm impressed the 152 could track the 340 behind him and overtaking. I've been into WVI several times in jets, the largest was pushing our luck in a G-III - I remember asking all the pattern aircraft to wait since we'd be running the circuit at 160 KIAS. The local traffic was kind enough to oblige and when we landed there was a lineup of a half dozen Cessnas waiting to get back in the air. That said, the twin Cessna coming in faster than I'd approach an uncontrolled airport in a jet, another pilot with too much airplane and not enough sense.
@trueriver1950
2 жыл бұрын
That last sentence is nicely phrased sir
@karlscribner7436
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed
@eightysea3780
2 жыл бұрын
The 340 was never really behind the 152. When the 152 says "you're behind me" he's halfway through the base leg, and the 340 is 1.5 miles at 2 o'clock. Then when he says "you're coming up on me pretty quick" he is still about 45 degrees from runway heading and the 340 is 3 to 4 o'clock and 1/2 mile. I've been plotting the tracks in Google Earth, and there is a lot going on. I also took the C340 track from 8/12 between the same airports, and if you overlay that track onto the 8/18 track starting at 10 miles from the airport, he ends up 3 miles behind the 152. There is something going on with the speed of the C340, we may never know whey he flew so fast that day.
@josephkelley8641
2 жыл бұрын
Mirrors freeway traffic.
@trueriver1950
2 жыл бұрын
@@josephkelley8641 you mean the drivers who have too much car and not enough sense? Or if you meant something else please say more ...
@215jets1
2 жыл бұрын
Similar situation happened to me back in ´98 while flying a King Air 200. I was on short final after flying a standard pattern in an uncontrolled airport when an Embraer 120 flying in direct from a left base behind me collided with my aircraft from above. It turned out that the Embraer pilot had turned down the volume on his radio as he was talking on radio 2 and never heard my position reports. Fortunately, we both managed to land in one piece. The lesson here is beside following standard procedures in an uncontrolled airport, always...I mean always make sure you see all traffic and that you are SEEN as well. SEE and be SEEN!
@wacojones8062
2 жыл бұрын
I was in a near miss as a passenger in a Cesena 182 vs a Skymaster who dove from high left to low right missing our right-wing strut by six inches with his right-wing tip. We were at the correct altitude for our heading over Lake Geneva WI. Total elapsed time from first sight to the miss was under 3 seconds no chance to get his number. Keep up the good reporting to raise awareness in the community of the hazards that complacency can bring.
@Ac1dsniper
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the analysis Juan! It's clear the 340 pilot was completely reckless and trying to beat the 152 to the runway. Complete disregard for any reasonable amount of airmanship at all. Such a senseless killing of the 152 pilot that hopefully, his family can get reparations from the 340 pilot.
@sanfranciscobay
2 жыл бұрын
A accidental death is only worth about 5-10 million dollars to insurance companies.
@CrossWindsPat
2 жыл бұрын
i mean all he had to do was start coasting after the mountains like a normal human being and all would have been well...
@someguy5035
2 жыл бұрын
@@sanfranciscobay Better than 0 million.
@sanfranciscobay
2 жыл бұрын
@@danielgregory3295 100 Million Dollars was recently awarded to a 65 year old Man who was paralyzed as a Quadriplegic from Police excessive force. He will die prematurely, slow and miserable.
@danielgregory3295
2 жыл бұрын
@@sanfranciscobay Hope he can collect, and it helps with his life! Juries are getting better at dealing with macho cops..🖖
@underdog2594
2 жыл бұрын
A few days ago the Denver area had extreme thunderstorms flare up during late afternoon hours. I was watching FlightAware while simultaneously listening to DEN Approach. It was impressive. ATC in rapid fire directing aircraft into multiple holding patterns with multiple aircraft in each, pilots doing what they do best, and then ATC unwinding the holding patterns one-by-one to get all aircraft on the ground after the worst of the storm had moved east. It was a pleasure to listen and observe. Hats off to ATC. He was a true professional and made it appear effortless.
@martharetallick204
2 жыл бұрын
The Denver ATC is first class. Back in the day, I enjoyed listening to them on UAL Channel 9.
@Twest130
2 жыл бұрын
I taught in a C-310. I thought my students to be blue line +10 ( this would be around 102-112 kts)at the most in the pattern for this exact reason, you don’t want to be over running slower traffic. Also unless it is IFR you enter the traffic pattern with everyone else.
@morthomer5804
2 жыл бұрын
Conflict identified: egos in command. Maybe straight in approach needs to be reviewed
@bernardanderson3758
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Juan because I fly in and out of a uncontrolled airport and it gets very busy especially when the student pilot is on his solo and I myself makes the callouts at my 10 mile marker out and my head is constant on the Swivel at all times
@robertcline1867
2 жыл бұрын
Many years ago on a Christmas Eve flight at night in a Cherokee 140 I almost was run over by commercial twin at an airport with active tower while flying direct from Stockton. I was listening to both Oakland Center (active flight following) and Redding tower. I was also visually tracking a commercial aircraft direct from SFO and mentally calculating our converging flight paths. Worth noting that there were several aircraft behind me also with the same destination. Center turned me over to the tower where they cleared me as number1. I declared 10 out and landing ILS while still monitoring Center. After declaring 3 out I heard Center turn the Commercial over to tower. Tower cleared them number 2 behind me. This is where it went wrong. The commercial PIC told tower that he had already passed the Cherokee (behind me!! Well behind me, ( had not even called 10 out or contacted tower yet. Was not on Center either. At this point the tower cleared them as #1. Granted I was low enough to not be seen perhaps in all the city lights but that matters not. Note: I was practically over my own home. Also had my sister with me who has never been in a small aircraft before. Instantly I declared an emergency hard right 360 for the Commercial behind me while going to full power and climbing to avoid wake turbulence. Got an air wake hard bump but was okay. Cut My sisters headset out of the audio circuit after telling her I was doing a simple 360. Landed long to avoid wake with dead silence on the radio. Declared exiting runway via taxiway I normally would to park and get fuel. Shortly tower contacted me and requested switch to a frequency that wasn't normal for this location. Anyway both the tower and the commercial PIC came on both of which were obviously freaked out. This was an incident and a real shitstorm for them. I knew the tower people by voice because I flew into Redding from San Carlos a min. of 3 days a week. At this point I pointed out this was Christmas Eve, I had lost two good friends not long before this in a mid air collision that was similar to this, and I expected them to never forget what had almost occurred. With that I said that I considered the matter closed and have a good Christmas with their families. Fueled up and continued flight into Oregon VFR on top to the only airport that was VFR with my alternate (uncontrolled grass strip, family informing clear, {they live there). Christmas went well. Didn't tell sister what happened for several years nor anyone else except father-in-law who was pilot/instructor during WW2 and spent teaching me to be ready and never hesitate to be the best PIC I could ever be.
@cpfwriter
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing that amazing (terrifying) story, tip of the hat for taking charge of the situation under maximum pressure.
@j700jam4
2 жыл бұрын
You should have radioed tower frequency and said "Tower Controller, possible ATC deviation, I have a number for you to call when able".
@strnglhld
2 жыл бұрын
That’s only slightly horrific. WOW!
@robertcline1867
2 жыл бұрын
@@SusanKay- W it wasn't on my mind at the time I had no idea how many people were on that commercial flight. They also were a factor to consider. They didn't need the possible news media intrusion in their lives.
@robertcline1867
2 жыл бұрын
@@j700jam4 Cell phones were not a thing yet and I was on vacation.
@derekwilliams7527
2 жыл бұрын
I live very close to Watsonville and I heard of this accident on the radio on my way home as there were road closures as a result. I have been waiting for your report on it as you bring so much information to the table. Thanks for what you do here.
@zx1100a1
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Juan for what you do.
@zeanjinsan
2 жыл бұрын
Gracias Juan! Always a privilege listening to your dissections, and dissertations. Your facial expression reflects what we AVIATORS feel anytime accidents, either fatal or not, occur. Condolences to the families. Keep the 🔵side up. 🙏💫
@bombud1
2 жыл бұрын
For me personally, and I've been in this exact situation having a much faster aircraft approaching short final as im ready to turn base, I extended my downwind leg until I had visual on the faster plane or heard his next radio call. Faster plane, 3 miles out, im only just wanting to turn base. Regardless of who has right of way, im removing myself from the equation and extending the downwind. I agree the C340 was a bit of a bully here and just mowed over the C152.
@armastat
2 жыл бұрын
I dont think the C152 pilot was aware of the excess speed of the incoming plane until it was too late. Sure he gave his distance and that was a clue, but unless the C152 pilot (who I understand was not a veteran pilot) was doing math in his head, he had no prior experience to inform him that he was dealing with a speed demon..
@b.buster
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the in-depth description. As a student who used to fly inside N49931, this was especially interesting to see. It seems like the student was in the clear. The other pilot even acknowledged his presence a mile out on base. Condolences to the pilots and their families. That was a fantastic aircraft as well.
@francisbalzer9324
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Juan! No pattern, too fast, undeterred by the occupied airport pattern. And there is a good chance the 340 was equipped to display the conflict traffic. On top of having two sets of eyes in the 340. The 152 seems to even tell the 340 of his position behind the 152. Is this a case of the biggest hanger owning the airport?
@ahmadsamadzai8255
2 жыл бұрын
Like others this really pisses me off. I am training for my ppl and until this incident I was under the assumption that every pilot, especially the experienced ones are extremely professional and do things by the book. From other comments I gathered that these stunts happen at this airport more often. That has got to change. My prayers go out to the families and may those angels rest in peace.
@richb313
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this post and your analysis of these events.
@joshbaxter5036
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for that detailed analysis. Impressive to do it so quickly and with such accuracy. Amazing the data that is available to the public now. I got my private out of Oakland about five years ago. The Bay Area is one of the most congested and challenging places to fly with so many small airports. My heart goes out to the victims and the families.
@autumnbeds
2 жыл бұрын
Very sad situation. Everyone needs to be on the same page or it's just never going to work out well. I was glad to see a new video but I was hoping for a better outcome. Thank you Juan
@idsawtooth
2 жыл бұрын
This is why I NEVER perform straight ins unless I'm very sure there are no other aircraft in the pattern. Most of the time I'll fly an upwind anyway if i think the pattern is deserted...
@christiandodge2458
2 жыл бұрын
My dad flew a Cessna 340 and one night on final approach he pushed the yoke to nose dive the plane suddenly without warning because some flashing lights came out of nowhere. It was a crazy reminder to buckle up, tightly secure the cabin, and really keep an eye out because this was controlled air space with ATC. We are lucky we didn't die. There wasn't the technology to review any flights at that airport that evening. My dad had been in 4 previous crashes, survived all of them, he was never the pilot in any of the 4 crashes. You can never be too careful.
@Dolphinvet
2 жыл бұрын
I own a Cessna 340A. The flap speed is 160 knots for 15 degrees, and 140 for beyond 15 degrees to 40 degrees. Gear speed is 140. Approach speed that I use is generally 120 knots. Blue line, which I don't go below until landing assured, 105 knots. I wouldn't use 96 knots because if you have to go around and an engine fails, you can lose control. My plane has the larger RAM VII engines. I don't know if this 340A did or not.
@davidmclellan3416
2 жыл бұрын
I feel the 340 pilot was reckless in not abandoning the approach earlier when he could not establish contact with existing pattern traffic, The 152 pilot was making appropriate calls
@PVflying
2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate your effort in putting together the video so soon. It’s important we learn the lessons from incidents like this, and your videos play an important role in getting the message out.
@richc47us
2 жыл бұрын
Very appreciative Juan...Thanks
@thomthumbe
2 жыл бұрын
More than once In similar situations, I usually call out that I’m either aborting the pattern, or usually extending my downwind. Back in sixth grade, my teacher was also a local judge. I easily recall him telling the class that as a pedestrian when crossing the road, the pedestrian is the one who is mostly responsible his/her own safety. He went on to say that the pedestrian, or his/her family could probably take the driver to court and probably win tons of cash. But in the end, the pedestrian is usually the one who loses it all and ends up 6 feet under. No amount of being right can make up for that. I’ve gone around many times and I don’t regret it….even if I am the one who made the mistake or if the other pilot is acting like a self-centered fighter pilot. Life is too short in any case.
@arturoeugster7228
2 жыл бұрын
It seems, that the C-152 did exactly what you said, he knew that the twin was behind him and judged it prudent to getting out of the way, by not attempting to land, but executing a go around, which unfortunately put him in the path of the higher, much faster C-340. There is no way, he cold have known that. His assumption was reasonable, that a fast airplane would be lower. I agree with all you said, BTW.
@Bellboy40
2 жыл бұрын
It's good to be right; just don't be "dead right".
@outwiththem
2 жыл бұрын
Are you saying the c150 was wrong in "not getting out of the way"? Explain that. The 340 was speeding down the road like at double the speed they should, Right? I find it hard to judge a far away in front of me speed by looking at it for one second only. Your are FOS to blame the victim instead of the bullish guy. So gay to like the bullish abusing the smaller guys.
@davedoe6445
2 жыл бұрын
I agree that it is best to be safe (assume ill intention) but the problem is that if we always blame the victim eventually everyone is incentivized to break the law.
@bullfrogger1208
2 жыл бұрын
Being right isn't much consolation when you're dead.
@ukar69
2 жыл бұрын
I was in the circuit in a 172 and called right downwind as the circuit was RH for this runway. As I was on base an Extra called left base. We both called final at the same time and Extra ended up going around. I was the low hour pilot, but the Extra knew I was in the circuit but decided to make a non standard join, probably thinking he could get in ahead.
@sx300pilot5
2 жыл бұрын
If it’s a publish/marked RH pattern, the Extra was in violation of FAR 91.126. Pretty straightforward….
@ajones0000
2 жыл бұрын
I always prefer to fly into controlled fields whenever I can. Uncontrolled fields are dangerous when pilots don't follow the rules to enter the pattern especially when it's obvious there are multiple planes already in the pattern. This is such a shame and was totally avoidable by the C340 pilot. Recklessness and flying don't mix and when they do mix, people die; both the guilty and the innocent.
@kignacio
2 жыл бұрын
First few pages in PHAK there’s a full page of the 5 personas that don’t mix with flying. RTFM 340 bro. RIP 152 Pilot.
@michelebouvet8074
2 жыл бұрын
Juan, thanks for the drawings....very helpful. I would love it if u could play the ATC audio on start and pause and clearly translate for us what they are saying. Lots of static, rapid speech making it hard to digest. Thanks for all you do for us and the industry. Prayers for the grieving familles.
@DragerPilot
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. It’s always much better to watch your analysis of these situations that Dan, the arrogant I’m never wrong ass, who will even say your analysis is wrong.
@Rekless70
2 жыл бұрын
What you are doing here is a good thing. Thank you sir
@bombsaway6340
2 жыл бұрын
Will be interesting to see how NTSB sorts this out. For now, think the 152 had the right of way, and the 340 was carrying excessive speed for the pattern. Given the group speeds Juan cited, difficult to see how the 340 pilot was going to salvage this approach. My take, the investigation will conclude pilot error by the 340 PIC. Tragic to say the least. Mixing aircraft of such different performance envelopes requires extreme care and vigilance.
@jameshisself9324
2 жыл бұрын
So, what would have been the best deconfliction action for the 152? The 152 seems to have been aware sooner, would it been best for him to extend the downwind leg until the 340 was past? It seems he could not have predicted the closure rates that soon. The approach speed of the 340 seems to seal the deal and leave the 152 with no chance at all.
@gregmarchegiani6656
2 жыл бұрын
Accident especially relevant for me, I operate a military cargo twin turboprop as a civilian instructor, teaching the customer who purchased the aircraft. I operate from military bases an airstrips, part of the curriculum is VFR, and we mix with other platforms with different speeds, especially helicopters. 99% of the time, English is a second aeronautical language for everyone involved. 20-30’ minutes of pattern work an I am actually tired! 😂😂 Lots to unpack from this excellent video, still reading comments
@YaofuZhou
2 жыл бұрын
One more case against straight-in without a tower. Also, the high-wing low-wing combination can be very common. I came across one last week. I was a low-wing overflying the runway and descending into the downwind leg of the pattern when a high-wing tail-dragger was also in the downing leg - precisely the situation with the highest risk as our wings can easily block the views of us. Fortunately the high-wing is painted in bright yellow and I was able to spot it far ahead in time.
@richregan8911
2 жыл бұрын
Descending into the downwind leg?
@namechange9367
2 жыл бұрын
@@richregan8911 doing a teardrop entry. You fly over midfield at 500 above traffic pattern altitude, fly outbound for a minute, then turn opposite of the downwind, descending to TPA entering. Pretty standard and safe because you can see the entire pattern from above and see all traffic
@YaofuZhou
2 жыл бұрын
@@richregan8911 @CapThunder52 answered that for me. The alternative would be to join the downwind or even the base leg of the traffic pattern with the opposite handedness from the established pattern altitude. This would be acceptable but less preferred at non-towered airport with traffic already in the pattern.
@YaofuZhou
2 жыл бұрын
@@namechange9367 Precisely. Thanks.
@richregan8911
2 жыл бұрын
@@namechange9367 Thank you for clarifying.
@thatweldingguy556
2 жыл бұрын
As a student, this pisses me off. This guy was bolting through the air to LAND and the poor student (not sure if student or not) realized but was too slow for the twin prop. The prop should’ve entered the damn pattern at least go around to downwind.
@SoloRenegade
2 жыл бұрын
340 entirely at fault. failure to listen to radio, failure to maintain situational awareness, failure to yield right of way.
@grahaml6668
2 жыл бұрын
A straight in approach to a non-towered field is a recipe for disaster, and requires utmost attention of everyone: the pilot performing it, and the others watching it.
@samcohen1625
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your clear description. I’ve put myself in both their shoes. What would I do, I’m training in a 152 and mastering my circuits (uk). Over here the aircraft in the circuit has the right of way, but obviously has to keep a Good Lookout and have situational awareness. Base and finals maximises your workload. On base I would have quickly glanced right and hoped the other pilot would see my raised wing on turning finals. After all he must have the runway in sight. As the twin pilot, I would have had a higher pitch in order to shed some speed and therefore not seen the 152. I would make it a point to get a visual or aborted a straight in. Anyway, I’ll be running this incident through my mind over and over again. Very sad this happened, it’s shaken all of us.
@savearhino369
2 жыл бұрын
tragic! waiting for this one from you , Juan. thanks for all you do.
@MooneyOvation2
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t fly in the US, but in my country pilots on a straight-in approach must give way to aircraft in the circuit. Makes sense to me.
@juniorwest5706
2 жыл бұрын
I always feel bad for giving these kind of videos a thumbs up , 😞
@johnjordan7084
2 жыл бұрын
Yes I do as well as I keep in mind my thumbs up is for Juan's excellent reporting.
@NicolaW72
2 жыл бұрын
@@johnjordan7084 Indeed.
@venomhi
2 жыл бұрын
Glad to see Juan flying again
@bertblankenstein3738
2 жыл бұрын
I don't understand why the one airplane came in so fast. No emergency was declared. Thank you for the vid work Juan.
@Maximum_911
2 жыл бұрын
Pen and paper is all you need. Thanks for the explanation of this incident.
@timcarter7051
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your great channel! Started watching for your motorcycle vids. Long time Watsonville resident, not a pilot but the overtaking pilot was clearly at fault here . Thanks for your great channel!
@maxcelcat
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, surely the twin was coming in way too fast for a safe landing, regardless of traffic! Could he even have the flaps and gear down at those speeds, without damaging the plane? I picture tyres popping as they hit the tarmac!
@raoulcruz4404
2 жыл бұрын
Similar setup near an airport near me but no accident. Cessna 152 in the pattern and another aircraft, tbm700, announces he’s approaching. Cessna 152 is over the threshold about to land . Tbm gruffly announces “ I’m high and fast in a turbine aircraft”. The Cessna hadn’t exited the runway and the tbm touches down. Apparently everybody is supposed to accommodate the hot shot turbine driver. Mind you a tbm will make a safe approach at 90 kts.
@RandomName841
2 жыл бұрын
I don't understand how he (the 340) was going so fast? He couldn't even have gear down yet. Might even be too fast for approach flaps. He should have had his gear down maybe 3 miles out if he was going to do a straight in approach and been going much slower. The speeds just don't makes sense to me for a twin cessna
@davebartosh5
2 жыл бұрын
This gave me a little flash back. I once flew with my instructor decades ago at Brookhaven, Long Island (HWV) to do touch and goes. It was, and still is uncontrolled. We didn't stay there long. It was summertime and we had a near death experience ourselves as a plane suddenly descended right into our view about 50 feet ahead of us. We were in a C172 (High Wing), and he was in a low wing Beech Baron. My instructor said "This place is a zoo in good weather, let's get outta here." I'm sad for the fatal accident reported here...but in my situation nobody was playing Speed Racer in the pattern.
@skydancerforever
2 жыл бұрын
There is a home security video showing the twin coming in fast right before hitting the Cessna 152. Can't really tell for sure but it doesn't even look like the landing gear is down? Almost looks like he is going to fly over the airport at runway heading?? Then you see pieces of one of the planes fall to the ground. Then smoke and fire when the twin hits the hanger.
@OveranalyzingEverything
2 жыл бұрын
I was driving south in the Watsonville area. I saw a small plane that looked like it crashed being shipped on a trailer. Didn't think much of it but did hear there was a crash somewhere. This makes me think it was one of the planes involved in this collision. Since it was the same area and a few days after the crash
@Exiles800
2 жыл бұрын
If Kruppa looked down at his airspeed indicator when Camenson radio-ed "You're coming up on me pretty quick" he would have been shocked to see he was going 85 knots faster than he thought...Human thought processes can't handle that much overload while being asked to perform difficult tasks in short time periods...Kruppa would have first hesitated to comprehend if he had processed it correctly...He would have then assessed flight protocols to decide how to handle it...His overspeed would have required a change in plans in how to handle the situation...On top of that he had a serious near miss to deal with...That hesitation eventually kicked out the right solution when Kruppa banked right to avoid Camenson but that situation processing delay cost him too much time and Kruppa didn't have time to avoid Camenson...That same critical split second delay happened with Eastern Flight 401 in the Everglades...First Officer Stockstill noticed the altitude loss but those same thought processes kicked-in and they take just a slight hesitation to assess the situation and process it: Stockstill: We did something to the altitude. Loft: What? Stockstill: We're still at 2,000 feet, right? Loft: Hey-what's happening here? I'm imagining Kruppa did something similar...Camenson then closed the margins to impossible by pulling up in to Kruppa even further decreasing the odds...
@toddorr4521
2 жыл бұрын
Many years ago as a student pilot I was downwind and another pilot gave his position which was real close to mine. I was in a 152 and started looking around quickly, look out the back window and I got a windshield full of airplane. We both were able to avoid each other. I land, park and go into the FBO and the other pilot comes up to me nervous and shaking and is extremely apologetic about what happened. Another plane cut in front of him who never gave any radio traffic. Things like that will unnerve you, especially as an 18 year old student pilot.
@piedmontmetrotruelove1824
2 жыл бұрын
I’m sorry for the pallets but you did a good job bringing this to us
@billwelter4101
2 жыл бұрын
Witnesses said it looked like a missile hit the 152, the 340 was going WAY too fast, straight in instead of joining the pattern. C'mon people, slow down and be nice and respectful to other pilots. RIP..
@APilotsHome
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the vid man. Awesome work
@280zjammer
2 жыл бұрын
How was the 340 going to stop? Maybe I'm wrong but I thought we were pushing it coming into the Lawrence Livermore airport at a hundred and thirty knots because we were a little too high on final. That was literally my first flight where I was handed the controls, it was in a 340 and the pilot was a former Navy pilot and an air show pilot, I remember kinda bombing in at a pretty steep angle. We had no problem with the length of that runway but we used every inch the runway leaving Carson City Nevada. I remember reaching the rotation speed at pretty much the same moment as the abort point. I think the pilot of the 340 was going to crash one way or another.
@roberttherrien352
2 жыл бұрын
We have the same type of traffic problems at my uncontrolled training airport. The training twins which are coming in direct final give their distance from final BUT with all their available instruments they also give the TIME to touchdown. That gives the circuit pilots the proper idea when to turn base or keep extending their downwind. But, hot rod non training high speed twins don't always give that info :(
@hoyden1960
2 жыл бұрын
Did flight training at WVI thru Santa Cruz Flying Club years ago. RIP
@Garth2011
2 жыл бұрын
I reckon its important to pay attention to the radio and tip the wings for a visual now and then.
@jamesward6503
2 жыл бұрын
I was abeam the the numbers on a left downwind in a 150 when a Lear reported a10 mile straight in... I reported base as he reported 5 mile final.. I spotted the traffic on final and told him I was heading straight and was going to do a right turn for final following # 2 after the Lear and waited for him too back taxi and clear the active. They are faster than you expect...
@MrSmitty6969
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Sir
@andersonhelicopters2853
2 жыл бұрын
Strange how they didn’t communicate to each other. Just standard calls till the end. The student pilot in the 152 could of been overloaded (aviate/navigate/communicate). The one rocketing in should of talked directly to the circuit traffic. Perhaps had volume down on radio?
@oseikwakubamfo6866
2 жыл бұрын
You are a good teaching first officer
@rigilchrist
2 жыл бұрын
This nearly happened to me in the UK. I was in a PA-28 turning base and a Cirrus called for a straight in. I made my call on base leg but he barrelled in, forcing me to turn early and go around. This behaviour is regarded as unsafe and very rude here. I never call straight in unless the circuit (pattern) is empty or I have agreed with the other pilot to fit into his pattern.
@henriettawight5216
2 жыл бұрын
Poor ADM on the part of both pilots. First is an uncontrolled Airport. Both Pilots were communicating on the radio and supposedly listening to the other pilots in the pattern. The 172 pilot should have extended his downwind until he had the traffic passing him on his left. The twin pilot should not have done a straight in approach with multiple planes in the pattern. They should have joined pattern traffic and made a standard approach
@juliemunoz2762
2 жыл бұрын
Watsonville is my hometown. How crazy.
@DaveWarstler
2 жыл бұрын
Cessna 340 clearly in the wrong on so many levels.
@scottfranco1962
2 жыл бұрын
The 150 calls left base, then "I see you behind me", no call for turn to final, and the 340 was calling one mile. That was the time to abort. The 150 called "going around", what the hell would that mean? Going around generally involves keeping runway heading, this was the time to get out of the pattern, for both aircraft.
@GMD64
2 жыл бұрын
Hi Juan, first, thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights with us. Second, are belly checks a thing for GA pilots? On another YT channel a retired military jet pilot said because of the low wing on the F16 if they suspected traffic below them on final they would roll the aircraft enough to see what might have been under it, the low wing twin Cessna guy admitted he was looking for the traffic inferring he hadn't seen it yet, are these belly roll tactics taught to GA pilots, if yes do you think it would have helped or was he simply going to fast to avoid the lower and slower single engine aircraft? Thanks again Juan.
@FreedomfromFeminism
8 ай бұрын
I don't understand how the twin expected to complete a successful landing at almost twice the appropriate approach speed. Is it even possible to slow from 160 to say 95 while on short final? Seems like a circling pattern to stabilize and reduce speed would have been the obvious course of action. I just don't get it.
@michaelamick8295
2 жыл бұрын
The elephant in this room, yet to be given the mic, is the use of antiquated radios that allow pilots to transmit simultaneously, thus blocking both from hear the other's transmission. Then again if we had a hard & fast rule from the FAA that NO straight in approaches ever ALLOWED EXCEPT FOR DECLARED EMERGENCIES!
@robertoler3795
2 жыл бұрын
the 340 pilot failed all the competencies of command. what else to say nice analysis Sir Safe flights greeting from the Seattle test pilots shop
@dertythegrower
2 жыл бұрын
Hey, I super appreciate your dedication as a pilot. I hope you tesch safety to youth who want to fly. Respect.
@dertythegrower
2 жыл бұрын
teach*
@bobjackson3307
2 жыл бұрын
Not only did the 150, have R/W, & spotted the conflict Twin speeding in. I thought he still didn't have eyes on the 152. The 152 pilot was playing it safe, (was thinking this guy just will not give me R/W, Not going to deviate, & last, The twin pilot didn't sound like he cared much.) he was making no effort to avoid after all that was said by the 152 pilot. His Last second assessment of "oop's don't see that plane anywhere, look at all those Rivets filling my Windshield, Hu, I wonder what that is all about". That was a hard one. The 152 made a great attempt to get out of the way. I'm sure he wasn't thinking the Twin Pilot was moving at that fast of a Speed at that point and time during that, very short final. the twin pilot May have missed the 152 pilot, if not for the Speed & no eye's on plane ahead of him. Great Reporting!
@rileyk99
2 жыл бұрын
That 340's approach was so heinously bad that I think an accident would have occurred even if the cessna hadn't been there. It's sad that someone so criminally behind their airplane killed someone else who didn't deserve it.
@josephgriffin1065
2 жыл бұрын
What was the twin Cessna doing 180-200 mph on short final for, the 152 pilot has no experience dealing with rogue pilots. Had I been in the pattern, I was taught to extend my downwind until traffic was seen, the 152 pilot may not have known exactly what was coming at him.
@tedd1091
2 жыл бұрын
Nice Job Juan. How can I use the ADS-B exchange to get the data on that crash
@bryanbiluk1694
2 жыл бұрын
My condolences to the families of both pilots and passenger.
@babyboomer9560
Жыл бұрын
Please someone address the effect of closing airports like Skypark in Scotts Valley and others….. losing Fritze Airfield when Ft. Ord Closed.I think Morgan Hill was closed also. All those closings have funneled the planes into one big airport with a bunch of different types. BTW I think Steve Wozniak was one of the reasons for closing Skypark. He ran off the end of the runway in a Bonanza after he got rich…but didn’t have the experience. I landed there many times. No problem. Too many billionaires nearby didn’t like the plane traffic. Also coming west over the hill east of Watsonville is pretty harry. Back in the 70s and 80s the commenter jets from LA are on veery long final for San Jose just east of the hills. You got to scoot under those guys that are lined up…so you gotta go fast then slow down as approaching Watsonville.
@kignacio
2 жыл бұрын
So when a twin is coming in hot, at 3 miles, then 1 mile, at what point should a little 152 just continue downwind to just let them cut in line? I know it’s too little too late but if I ever hear of a twin coming in straight, I would leave the pattern or extend/continue downwind right?
@tieniewalters3287
2 жыл бұрын
So sad indeed, condolences to family of those involved...
@Brett636
2 жыл бұрын
This is a sad situation. The 152 pilot probably believed the incoming twin would make the necessary adjustments to enter the airport safely. The twin pilot thought he could beat the 152 to the runway. Both were wrong sadly and even though the twin pilot caused the whole thing it still cost all those involved their lives. As hindsight is 20/20 the best course of action would have been the 152 extending his downwind until the incoming traffic had passed, but how was he supposed to know the 340 was barreling in at such high speeds?
@urbancoyote4840
2 жыл бұрын
Ty sir for this 🙏
@831BeachBum
2 жыл бұрын
I was flying copilot in a PBY going to an airshow at the Nut Tree in California near Travis AFB about 30 years ago. When we were on about a half mile final a Stearman turned right base from downwind then to final in front of us. We lost sight of the Stearman then elected to go around.
@fucqtheworld
2 жыл бұрын
The 152 pilot was a student out of Monterey. He didn’t have the experience to just extend his downwind and let the faster twin go by. Sad.
@07870553254
2 жыл бұрын
The 340 mowed him down..wow.. What are people doing out there..?? These accidents are so avoidable..🙁
@fgbhrl4907
2 жыл бұрын
It seems like the Cessna 340 was basically in the wrong for multiple reasons. Way too fast, not respecting the existing traffic in the pattern, just assuming they can beat the other aircraft to the punch. My feeling is that's why he had such a high rate of speed; he figured he could beat the 152 which was still downwind, and make them have to go around. Turns out his math was off.
@smo-guiver8315
2 жыл бұрын
I see this happen a lot on road construction projects when we close 1 lane out of 2 in the same direction. People will accelerate into the construction zone to get ahead of slower traffic. We call it "racing to the taper."
@zeanjinsan
2 жыл бұрын
@@smo-guiver8315 Totally relatable Smo,. In this instance, the" pilot" in the 340 most likely had to be "tapered" into the coffin because of his outlandish ego. Condolences to the families. Lesson for all of us humans. 🙏💫
@windhover2021
2 жыл бұрын
@@hydroponichomesteader6852 Same here. My instructor never taught straight in approaches to uncontrolled airports.
@neilwilson5785
2 жыл бұрын
I don't know. Looks a bit like cocaine does not mix with flying a high speed airplane.
@JoeGator23
2 жыл бұрын
@@smo-guiver8315 We call it "running the gauntlet" or "shooting the gap".
@TheFinerPoints
2 жыл бұрын
So sad. This is why we have traffic patterns! I know people don’t have to use them … but this is why we use them. I know it’s tempting to do a long straight in, especially after a long flight , but this is why we have traffic patterns. Thanks for the report Juan
@ss-tx-rx2860
2 жыл бұрын
I've seen many of your videos and have nothing but respect for you and your passion for teaching, but this is short sighted. You know as well as anyone that InFO 15012 requires VMC practice IAPs to be flown to the DA/MDA for each published segment in order to satisfy 61.57(c). Yes, use the traffic pattern when you can, but it's not that simple. The regulations literally require that you not at least 6 times semi-annually to be a legal IFR pilot. So let's stop pretending that just flying the traffic pattern is a panacea. There are legitimate reasons to fly long straight ins, and maintaining instrument currency and proficiency is one of the most compelling. The real solutions: see and avoid, keep your head on a swivel, understand 91.113(g), operate your plane in a manner compatible with 91.13, understand what other plane's telephonics suggest about their speed, don't turn base in front of and cut off fast moving traffic established on a 3mi final, understand non-standard traffic pattern entry, know what spots in the air may be hot spots (similar to the ones on your taxi diagram), etc. Really just live the aviation lifestyle. Go all in, commit, practice regularly, study the FARs, and stay proficient. At the end of the day, the 340 driver was likely operating in violation of 91.13, but he had the right of way. 91.113(g) and NTSB Order No. EA-4236 clearly settle that matter. The 152 erred in cutting off traffic established on final, and in so doing killed himself and 2 others.
@tonyascaso6254
2 жыл бұрын
Yes! I have flown in Watsonville many a time. I never use a straight in. I overfly above pattern altitude to get a visual on the situation and then set up an entry into the pattern depending on what type of traffic and weather. Fly the pattern! The C340 driver was just out of control on this approach. The approach speeds were unreal and I really question his motives at those speeds.
@Hemalo
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. In my flightschool all of our teachers would have killed me if I would've told them that I'll go for a straight in approach at an uncontrolled field. Doesn't matter where we are coming from and what the active runway is, we always enter 45 degrees in the downwind. And there are many tragic evidences from the past that you are way better off spending an additional 5 minutes to enter via the downwind and live another 40 years rather than losing your life just because you tried to save 5 minutes in an approach...
@j700jam4
2 жыл бұрын
@@ss-tx-rx2860 recipe for disaster shooting an instrument approach to uncontrolled field, head in the cockpit and not looking outside for vfr traffic. Total tragedy, must have been terrifying for all three victims.
@darrengraves2888
2 жыл бұрын
@@ss-tx-rx2860 I might agree with part of your post, if 340 was actually being flown like on a instrument approach, you don’t fly approaches, even practice ones above gear and flap speed. The 340 looks to be in violation of 91.13, and the 152 had the right of way as he was lower. I’m sure the speed of the 340 surprised the 152. Total cowboy flying.
@shermancouch9964
2 жыл бұрын
Juan Brown - Your saving lives with these videos. These are teachable incidents, and your work matters. Please continue doing what you're doing here. SC
@SquawkCode
2 жыл бұрын
I met Juan a year ago, shook his hand and said almost the exact same thing. #truth
@j700jam4
2 жыл бұрын
@Are Dee the rules of aviation are written in aviators blood unfortunately. These types of videos are an educational to all aviators.
@Mike_delta80
2 жыл бұрын
This has been a complaint of mine for years as a tower controller. These high performance twins and singles refuse to slow down and insist on doing in excess of 150kts in the pattern full of Cessnas and Cherokees doing 90. They get indignant when you ask them to slow.
@noturnleftunstoned72
2 жыл бұрын
Some people learn very difficult lessons when they can just pull back on the ego.
@califcamper
2 жыл бұрын
sad when someone puts speed in front of safety. The one thing I have learned from watching Juan is taking responsibility for safety
@mkm1225
2 жыл бұрын
As a former, now retired, airline pilot, I thought the tower controllers had a bit of pull with the FAA. As far as reporting those bozos that don't pay by the rules. Lots of egos out there, just like the guy in the 340 in this accident. What an ass, actually. !80 kts on final when the gear speed is 140 - what in the hell was he thinking?
@kenclark9888
2 жыл бұрын
I fly a King Air and go into some busy GA fields. They always ask us to slow down to slowest possible speed and I slow down as much as possible
@Mike_delta80
2 жыл бұрын
@@kenclark9888 you sir are the real MVP, but unfortunately the exception to the rule.
@Calgold49
2 жыл бұрын
Having landed at this airport 3 weeks ago, I might add my first time. It was a Saturday and busy I was coming from the north and considered a mid field fly over and tear drop into the downwind leg. But they had parachute operation that day and was concerned about a conflict. I considered a straight in approach but after listening to the traffic on the radio I opted for southern approach into a 45 into the downwind leg. There was at least 3 planes in the pattern doing pattern work and one other coming straight in, I had to extend my downwind for the straight in approach guy. Flying south and coming in on a 45 gave me time to assess all the planes in the pattern and where they were. Everyone was on there radios announcing their positions. Busy airport and very sad story, I’m not a fan of straight in approaches at uncontrolled airports.
@vbscript2
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, honestly, eliminating straight-ins to uncontrolled airports is a regulatory change I'd support. It would use up some additional fuel, but it would undoubtedly save lives.
@MaloPiloto
2 жыл бұрын
I fully agree. I flew into and landed on 20 at KWVI many times. Extremely reckless conduct by the 340!
@TheTiktok4321
2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, the younger, fresher pilots think about these rules, but the older speed jocks somehow don't get this info in their flight reviews.
@hb1338
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheTiktok4321 You are making assumptions. Statistically, the most dangerous time for a pilot is between 400 and 800 hours, when they have sufficient experience to think they are competent and insufficient experience to realise that they are not.
@pew6126
2 жыл бұрын
Would have been my suggestion.
@robertedwards7841
2 жыл бұрын
I think we all realize that you are limited in "hardware" to make such videos from a hotel room but it was still presented in a concise, understandable and informative manner. Good job.
@375GTB
2 жыл бұрын
VERY well done!
@brucesmith9144
2 жыл бұрын
Sometimes, like this video, the pen-and-paper schematic are better at presenting the material.
@jeremyhill2243
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t think you needed much more hardware it was pretty cut and dry. I fly out of that airport all the time and he is absolutely correct.
@NicolaW72
2 жыл бұрын
Indeed!👍
@johningram2153
2 жыл бұрын
That's an excellent point. I've never seen a video on this channel before this one, and it was clear this was not his normal setup. Considering he was holding a tablet up to the camera, playing radio transmissions through a speaker (from his phone or whatever), and relying on his own pencil drawing of the pattern (for the benefit of those of people like me who are not pilots and don't know the background), this was a very clear explanation of what happened. It's obvious, even to me, that the 152 pilot needed to take aggressive action to get out of the way, but he couldn't have possibly expected that the 340 was tearing in at a speed nearly twice anything safe. He first decided to land ahead of him, and then decided to go around. What he didn't know was that he needed to abandon the pattern completely and get well out of the way of this maniac. I guess it's important to assume that just because you're following the rules, doesn't mean everybody is.
@zacharybobbitt6110
2 жыл бұрын
I have roughly 30 hours in the accident 152, and my sister witnessed it and called me right afterwards. I don’t believe I know anyone involved in this accident, but it certainly hits close to home. Juan I pretty much 100% agree with you, though due to local reports and webcams I believe the collision was more over the street near 20 with the 152 impacting right inside the airport boundary fence. We do have quite a bit of corporate and faster traffic at Watsonville, and just from radio calls I imagine the unbelievable closure speed threw the 152 pilot way off, assuming he would have been able to land and t/o before any sort of separation issues arose. I was at lunch shortly before this accident and then at least the pattern seemed fairly full so again why this 340 thought he could just slam through is irritating to say the least. Talking with others since yesterday, we shared our own near misses due to others pulling similar stunts, fly the standard approach at reasonable speeds and everyone gets to go home.
@mctransportation9831
2 жыл бұрын
The 172 that I trained and check rode in, ended up having a fetality accident. It's awful that you can be the most prudent and cautious pilot, but still have to share the sky with arrogant pilots who think they're invincible. This is a lot of the reason why I no longer fly.
@hotrodray6802
2 жыл бұрын
@@mctransportation9831 Gotten to be like riding a motorcycle. Really.
@Mike-01234
2 жыл бұрын
Do you think a tower controller should be used there?
@zacharybobbitt6110
2 жыл бұрын
@@Mike-01234 honestly I don’t know. Would it help, sure; but I would say that there would also be something lost as well. Something of a throwback to the golden age of aviation. Realistically while Watsonville frequently has more traffic than Salinas, due to the ILS and regional positioning I should think they should keep the tower there. I personally much prefer uncontrolled fields (I am biased as that’s how/where I started). The solution isn’t a tower though (see the recent Las Vegas accident), the solution is character and training people the value of patience, standards, and why those standards exist.
@zacharybobbitt6110
2 жыл бұрын
@@mctransportation9831 like @HotRod Ray says defensive tactics can certainly mitigate a lot of that risk, I hope you come back to flying. It’s sad this is such an issue in recent years…
@thompsonjerry3412
2 жыл бұрын
The problem is that old guys love straight in approaches and they are dangerous, fly the damn pattern and look around.
@BrettLevin4096
2 жыл бұрын
Was old. Was bold. Now just a mistake to be retold.
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