Very informative. Having been professionally involved in air testing to failure, I can guarantee that your hydrostatic testing is infinitely safer . Air testing should not be done by any non-professional and should not be done in anything but a very controlled environment . Even at that, it is a very risky business that can destroy any confinement chamber and/or apparatus . Personnel injury is a very real concern .
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
Thank you. I have pinned your comment as it is spot on and hopefully others will read it. Been doing hydros for years myself and have seen gas testing by people go wrong. A good hydro pump is a small investment in safety.
@bobengelhardt856
Жыл бұрын
In 2004, there was a propane tank discussion on the RCM newsgroup & after searching the net, I posted: "Working pressure: 240 psi; pressure relief: 375 psi; test pressure: 480 psi; design burst pressure: 960 psi; observed burst pressure: 1200 - 2000 psi"
@KlodFather
Жыл бұрын
And may be higher depending on who made the tank and how rusty or flaked it is.
@johncrisman576
Жыл бұрын
Love the shock wave in the slow mo.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
That was awesome that the camera caught it. I watched that several times.
@TheTsunamijuan
Жыл бұрын
The shockwave bringing the leaves off the ground made for a wonderful shot.
@VB-bk1lh
8 ай бұрын
Propane tanks are fine for air tanks, working pressure in those tanks is 100-200psi. Unless your planning on filling it to over 200 psi to fill tires with it your pretty safe. The cheap kits they sell are more the risk than the tanks. I worked for a few years at a place that refilled and tested large inert gas cylinders, mostly CO2, Halogen, and Nitrogen tanks. The set up they had to test those tanks were large tubes sunk into the ground through the floor filled with water. There were pressure sensors on those in ground cylinders and a mechanism for pulling the tank down into the cylinder empty. The tank got attached to a fill tube and sealed into the water cylinder with no air space around the tank. We would then turn up the air pressure going into the tank to anywhere from 150% to 200% of its rated max. The tank had to retain the pressure without affecting the water pressure surrounding it. If the tank swelled, distorted, or leaked the water pressure would change and therefore condemn the tank. Only once did I see a tank fail, it was a medium sized CO2 tank from a bottling company. It split open at 170% of its max. The tank was made in 1947 and had been used steadily up until 1991 when it failed. When it failed all that happened was a slight thump sound and the test tank pressure rose about 15psi or so. The crack in the tank was nearly impossible to even notice once the pressure was let out and it was removed from the test tank. We knew it failed, and the first thing we noticed was that there was water in the C02 tank. The crack closed right back up so tight it didn't even leak water without pressure. We often used the system to test other tanks, just so they were empty. (They would have frowned upon someone pumping up pressure in something that would combust in the tube). I tested a few small propane tanks and none ever blew up, even at four times their rated pressure but most would fail for expansion of the tank much over 300 psi or so. Older tanks did better than newer tanks for obvious reasons. When it comes to blowing up a propane tank, its not going to happen with propane, its not under that much pressure and isn't all that volatile. Believe me, as a teen, I tried. Now, rumor has it...What will work was to take an oxygen acetylene mix from a cutting torch, mixed to a bright blue flame, then used to fill the propane cylinder. With the valve closed, and any safety valve defeated, it needs to either be heated to ignition temps, shot with an incendiary round, or shot while sitting atop a fire. None of which will work with propane. The blast will far exceed that pop you got from 6lbs of Tannerite by a lot. Bury it, and its a good way to dig a car size grave. Not buried, and nearby homes lose windows. In reality, if buried, you don't really need the propane tank, a beach ball or similar will do the same, but that's just what I heard.. You also would not want to be as close to it as you were that little jug of tannerite either. The bottom line is that these things are designed to be very safe, and it takes a whole lot of effort to make them super dangerous or to cause some catastrophic failure.
@gregculverwell
4 ай бұрын
Back in the late 80s I was the plant manager and mechanical engineer at a company which manufactured industrial gas cylinders. As part of our QC process every cylinder was yydrostaticaly tested to 3x working preassure after heat treatment. In addition we would take a random sample from the production line every day and pump it up to failure. We judged the result on 3 criteria - firstly the volumetric increase before failure had to be greater than 50%, the failure had to be at greater than 10x of the working preassure and finally the failure could not be at a weld. In the case of toxic gases like sulphur dioxide and ammonia we would also x ray all the welds of a sample from a batch. As a member of the industry association I was involved in investigating accidents. There were 3 ways that a failure could occur - extreme heating, mechanical damage and overfilling. As for calculating the strength, there are design codes which give you the answer. In the US that would be ASME. it's not heavy duty maths, just a set of simple formulas. Really it just comes down to the properties of the steel used, the wall thickness, the diameter of the cylinder and to a lesser extent, the shape of the domes.
@RambozoClown
Жыл бұрын
Propane tanks are rated quite a bit higher than most compressed air tanks. Propane is typically between 100 and 200 psi depending on temp. So it is fine to use a propane tank as an air tank, but don't use an air tank for propane.
@KlodFather
Жыл бұрын
This is true. The head pressure of propane can be as high ast 350 in a nominal environment depending on many factors including gas mix. Propane is not 100% pure in the tank. High purity propane is used for refrigeration and labeled some exotic refrigerant. We converted an air conditioning system one time to run on propane... It worked better than anything else and because we used some sloppy parts it could be filled with gas grill cylinders. It was MUCH colder than 134 or 22 systems. Had really good capabilities. Not enough in the system to cause much trouble. Exchangers were all outside so if there was gas, it was minimal. Like Jackie Gleason used to say... TO The Moon Alice.
@nilo9456
4 ай бұрын
Ha, for a short period I used propane in the AC in my car, worked pretty well.
@ClintsHobbiesDIY
Жыл бұрын
That was fun. The LP tank held up way better than I would have guessed.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
I was surprised myself. When the world warms up, I'll actually pop it. I'm really curious what the pressure will be.
@kristian27edmm
Күн бұрын
That was awesome man!😅
@bcbloc02
Жыл бұрын
Blowing stuff up is fun. Cylindrical pressure vessels generally fail at the transition from cylinder to cap as this is the highest stressed area assuming it is all the same thickness material.
@markshort9098
Жыл бұрын
Tannerite is ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder so tipping a little diesel on some of it would probably increase the stump removal efficiency
@leroyc179
Жыл бұрын
The ground around the stump looked like it was compressed downward and then jumped upward!! What is it about things that go boom that all men enjoy? Very cool demo💯💥
@4GSR
Жыл бұрын
I am an engineer, not licensed though, and I deal with pressure vessels that we test our products in. Of course, the pressures we deal with are in the range of 10,000-25,000 psi with temperatures up to around 450°F. Yes, we have a controlled environment we test in, all done in the ground below the surface and personnel in a safe building nearby. There is a full set of rules and calculations that are published by the ASME on any kind of pressure vessels used in industry today, including those used in steam service. Most engineering books go into some detail of using the basic calculation for burst pressure but leave lots out because of the complexity calculations get in vessel design. By using one of the calculations, I normally use day to day, I come up with a rough guess of around 1000-1200 psi. I'm just taking a WAG on the diameter of the tank, yield strength of the material. Since this vessel has capped ends and elliptical shaped ends, this helps in determining the amount of pressure it will hold. Also, ASME specifies the minimum safety factor or working pressure required as well as the test pressure for a vessel. It also depends on which section of the ASME rules you follow by determining these factors. Oh, I forgot to mention DOT has a hand in this, too. So their rules may override those of ASME, IDK. DOT is more about transportation and handling of dangerous materials. Oh, when are you going to blow up a oxygen welding tank? Be safe whatever you do. Ken
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Ken. Great info and your estimate will be put to the test in the spring.
@fredflintstone8048
Жыл бұрын
I liked the way the slo mo footage of the camera picked up the leaves all leaving the ground.
@VetSemperFi
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Josh for a better way to rake and bake leaves!
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
I'll come over and take for you if you buy the supplies. Lol.
@VetSemperFi
Жыл бұрын
@@TopperMachineLLC I'm out of those supplies BUT I do have some diesel fuel and lawn fertilizer! Will that work?
@paulpipitone8357
Жыл бұрын
Now that is some proper Testing LOL.... Thanks Josh
@TgWags69
Жыл бұрын
been using one for a portable air tank for years. Max my compressor will do is 125 psi. nowhere near the capacity of these tanks. So much thicker than the 20 gauge steel "real" air tanks are made of! I had to take the valve out and remove the safety back flow leak preventer thingy so it free flows, but it works great.
@Freetheworldnow
Жыл бұрын
A hydrostatic test is a non destructive test done to measure volume displacement under a predetermined pressure. Impressive stump removal video!!
@theessexhunter1305
Жыл бұрын
Josh, I tested dive tanks for quite a while O2 cleaning shot blasting We went to Luxfur on an up date and put 570 bar in to an ally tank before it failed
@ron827
Жыл бұрын
Tannerite is always a good time.
@billshiff2060
6 ай бұрын
For a MILD STEEL(60000 tensile) tank: 12.3 diameter tank = 6.15^2 x PI =118sq ins area The perimeter 12.3 x PI = 38" thickness is .095 = section area=38 x .095 3.67sq in 3.67 x 60 000lbs =220,257 pounds to rupture mild steel of that section 118 sq inches area , to reach 220,257 rupture pressure is 220,257/118 = 1,866 pounds pressure to rupture it.
@nickd5943
Жыл бұрын
I think the what makes those tanks dangerous, is that people let them get rusty and or dented.
@KlodFather
Жыл бұрын
Yes and the Schrader valves in them leak... ANd the accumulation of propane will firmly and promptly remind you when it barks that it should not be trifled with LOL
@darmah1959
Жыл бұрын
The relief valve on a propane tank is normally set to 375psi with a 5X safety factor, so burst pressure will be close to 2000 psi.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
Everything I read said 1000 psi. In the spring I'll hook up a pressure washer and find out.
@KlodFather
Жыл бұрын
@@TopperMachineLLC - I would love to see it. IT better be a very strong pressure washer... I think the tank will put up a fight. THey are much tougher than they let on. Foreign tanks in many cases are scary but ones here in North America are very very hearty. The only way we were able to blow one was put it in a very hot coal fire and about 10 min later it went off with a teriffic roar... and the woods were bald. ha ha THe collar landed on the neighbors property in tact. Looked like ground zero and all black and burned.
@RobertCarrizal
7 ай бұрын
the bird fly away from scared propane LOL
@BrucePierson
Жыл бұрын
As matter of interest, I cut an old gas tank open some time ago and it was brand new shiny metal inside. No way these tanks can rust inside during normal use, as the ingredients to form rust just aren't there.
@Tasarran
7 ай бұрын
Yep, and also no way for them to spontaneously explode inside the tank, because even if there's a spark in there somehow, there's no oxygen to burn with.
@mfc4591
Жыл бұрын
That rooster stopped crowing after the explosion.(Did not take long for him to crow again) ! nice test system
@fricknjeep
Жыл бұрын
hi there fun show . have a lot of simmlar stuff . thanks john
@anthonypirozzi837
Жыл бұрын
I was a machinist by trade, military aircraft parts. I ran cnc's, horizontals, hydrotels, bridgeports but no lathe work
@frequentflyer56
2 ай бұрын
API rounds work well in this application, or so I've been told.
@oliverarceo2004
10 ай бұрын
No bs strait to da point
@samhendrix378
Жыл бұрын
Bad ass rifle and great shot topper!
@robertcrossley9803
Жыл бұрын
nice to see your back. You,ve been missed
@alanm3438
Жыл бұрын
I thought that I felt the earth move!!!!!!😫😫😣😣😣😣😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😎😎
@robertambrose1168
Жыл бұрын
I saw dude shoot a propane bottle with a gun it was a big explosion unbelievable
@kentuckytrapper780
Жыл бұрын
Cool video Josh, keep'um coming.
@mabmachine
Жыл бұрын
It taks a lot those tanks are designed to NOT blow up. They are DOT rated to be dropped off a the back of a truck. Even if placed in a fire the pop off will blow and vent the propane to keep the vessel from going full on grenade. The OPD valves that are now required were added to keep the tanks from being completely filled to allow expansion space for the propane. A full bottle in direct sunlight on a hot day can get north of 250psi. The real risk of these is the propane leaking and since propane is heavier than air will want to pool in a low area like a basement and turn your house into a bomb. Good video except now I want a hydrostatic test setup LoL.
@rupe53
Жыл бұрын
while you are not likely to reach high temps in a basement, a hot car with the windows up could be a doozy if you got a leaker!
@GardenTractorBoy
Жыл бұрын
Great video and fun to watch, thanks
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
Thanks. It was fun to make too. Lol.
@israelespinell6389
Жыл бұрын
The operating pressure in a propane tank is 240 psi,when the tank is overfill the psi rise to 375 psi at this point the relieve valve open to release the excess of propane as far I know the hydrostatic test is to reach the tank to 600 psi is the tank does not blown pass the test to use this tank for 6 years.
@danburch9989
Жыл бұрын
Fill a 20 lb bottle with tanerite (yes, it will take a lot!) and fire a high velocity round into it from a mile away. It will take out a bever dam for sure.
@andrewthag
Жыл бұрын
I tried helping this guy who had a trailer full of these things go off and explode, I literally couldn't get within half a city block because the shrapnel risk was insanely high
@Tasarran
7 ай бұрын
Probably a low risk from shrapnel from the tanks themselves. Now, the force of the explosion COULD cause all sorts of nearby things to become shrapnel.
@tempemm
3 ай бұрын
I’m always paranoid about propane tanks exploding when I drive my forklift
@travishanson166
Жыл бұрын
Modern tanks have the certification temp and pressure stamped on the tank. At 285 psi (hydro) and ambient temperature, a propane tank is silent compared to an equivalent compressed air tank, which clinks or groans coming up to pressure. The last propane tank I converted to compressed air service, it was stamped 425 psi at 400° F
@KlodFather
Жыл бұрын
THe only way I could get one to blow (when I was 15 and much dumber) was to make a camp fire and then shovel it in with coal. Once it was hot dig out the center and put the tank in and shovel it in quickly. Rode out on a dirt bike with a friend about a half mile. We saw and heard the collar flying in the air and land on the neighbors property. The woods were bald and the earth was scorched. It was bad. We needed our shorts changed LOL
@le3045acp
Жыл бұрын
just do it like we did them put it in the middle of a large 50 to 100 acre field that is plowed and put a sparkler beside the tank and shoot it from 500 yards it will go boom very nicely but it is dangerous for sure always a chance shrapnal could come back and hit you thats why when we got older and wiser we quit this process of fun lol
@ElmerJFudd-oi9kj
9 ай бұрын
You got me.
@kristian27edmm
Күн бұрын
Boom🎉
@wmweekendwarrior1166
Жыл бұрын
Good stuff
@angelavalos8125
5 ай бұрын
Nice
@BrucePierson
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting video. No way we can do that sort of thing here in Australia!
@davidcat1455
Жыл бұрын
Not true.
@KlodFather
Жыл бұрын
You could put it in a strong hot camp fire and run away very far on a dirt bike or quad or car. Some minutes later it will let you know the souffle is done LOL
@apollorobb
Жыл бұрын
I think the WP on most propane vessels is 312 @72 F
@Gato_Nieve
4 ай бұрын
What about temperature? it gets as warm as 46 celsius degrees in my town, and my propane tank is stored on the grill under direct sun... is there any chance of explosure with those conditions?
@richardl6751
3 ай бұрын
The pressure relief valve will release the pressure first.
@dwightkrauss
Жыл бұрын
Little late here... but we are looking primarily at hoop stress. Figure Ft = P * r/t = something like P * 7" / 0.09" = P * 78. The steel is good for something over 60,000 psi, so your pressure at failure of the tube is something like 60,000 psi / 78 = 770 psi. Pitting and welding take a toll on this, and the ends aren't spherical, but are thicker and the steel is undoubtedly better than 60 ksi. But that should be in the ballpark. Gonna guess somewhere between 700 and 1000 psi.
@Paul-FrancisB
5 ай бұрын
Just been looking through the comments for a hoop stress calc and my numbers agreed with you at about 900 psi, design pressure with zero margin, however the 60,000psi is inherently conservative from the codes (ASME 8 or BS5500 this side of the pond) so not a surprise it didn't fail. When you consider the pressure in a plastic coke can or bottle could easily be 30 to 40psi 1/10th OG an inch of steel is more than enough. The concern would be corrosion allowance, propane tanks don't rust internally, a wet air receiver wouldn't need much metal loss internally to be a problem. A typical allowance is 1/8" for this sort of duty which is more than the vessel thickness.
@richardl6751
3 ай бұрын
Don't forget to redo this test.
@fudgea
Жыл бұрын
I subscribed recently and have been watching and enjoying your older videos progressing toward the most recent. I have a question about cutting external threads on the lathe and making multiple passes. How do you start each pass at the same place? Maybe you could do a video. I am retired from a life of working on tractors, radar drives and radar transmitters. I would have liked to work in a machine shop with lathes, mills, I find the way they transform steel fascinating.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
Thanks. I think I have a video showing the thread dial and how to use it. But I could do something coming up at some point.
@danburch9989
Жыл бұрын
Propane at 135F reaches 235psi. I don't think there's a problem using a propane tank as an air tank PROVIDED the integrety of the tank isn't compromized and/or that it passes a certification test or if it is less than 12 yrs old (the time limit for a pressure recertification).
@twoteccs2twoteccs287
7 ай бұрын
Was that empty???
@ThinkAboutMyComment
10 ай бұрын
Wouldn’t’ve taken it into the groove of trees. It pressurized exploded but if it ignored it couldn’t been sufficient to have started a forest fire
@howardg7162
Жыл бұрын
We us3d to do that on trailers that go down the road
@howardg7162
Жыл бұрын
I used to use a radial drill press like yours
@royreynolds108
Жыл бұрын
I don't think I will be anywhere around your traction engine when you steam it if all you use is 125% of operating pressure for the test. I have heard that initially use 200% then 150% annually for the test pressure of the operating pressure or safety valve pressure. For hydro testing, the specimen or subject is filled with water then placed in a tank of known volume and closed off. Water is added so that the water level on a tube with a marked scale is to a defined point. The subject is connected to a suitable pump and pressure gauge then the pressure is slowly applied while watching the pressure gauge up to the required test pressure and held for a given time period and the amount of water level on the tube is recorded as to how much the subject has enlarged under the specified pressure. If there are no leaks, the pressure is released, and the subject is disconnected, drained, and dried. If it is to be tested to rupture, then the pressure is increased until rupture occurs. I had a state boiler inspector more leery of the 550-gallon propane tank in the tender than a 175 psi steam boiler on the locomotive. He said the propane tank terrified him.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
You obviously don't know the rules and regulations for all historic boilers. Most all states have done away with the 150% & 125% hydro. Wisconsin stopped doing it a few years ago. The only boiler explosions the last few decades were in states that only do hydrostatic testing. If you want correct information, you can look up the NBIC. They have the minimum guidelines for testing. Then you can look up each individual state for their requirements. Wisconsin is regulated by the DSPS rules for historic boilers.
@johnminx2133
Жыл бұрын
I'm good this!... but this don't happen when you wreck a semi hauling propane....quite the opposite happens! Lol
@keithmonarch447
Жыл бұрын
Hi Josh, Keith and I still was working at this firm. I'd need to actually talk with directly. About static compression factors. Perhaps this Monday I might call, okay....
@stickman-1
7 ай бұрын
I think you are way off. I can pressurize a small plastic soda bottle to over 125psi w/o it popping. So metal .095 wall should easily take 1000 psi. Also have an aluminium tank rated for 1800 psi and I've had it to 2500 w/o any issue. Also paintball tanks are tested to 7500psi (rated to 4500) and they don't fail unless something is wrong with them. So .095" wall steel if not rusted, should take well over 1000psi.
@greglaroche1753
Жыл бұрын
Interesting. Thanks for the video. Next time put the tannerite in the propane tank and shoot it!
@bostedtap8399
Жыл бұрын
Can't beat an explosion.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
I think I have finally made content on everything guys like. Just need to go bigger now.
@mikec.9177
Жыл бұрын
Josh to calculate the max yield strength of those tanks you have to know the grade of steel the tanks are made with. You can figure it using grade 42 steel which is about the lowest grade used in pressure vessels.
@819John
Жыл бұрын
Would there be a way to measure the diameter of the tank as you put the pressure to it. It must swell as the pressure reaches the failure point.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
Now this would be a great thing to try and do. You have me quite curious. I'll think about a way to do it and when things thaw out in the spring, I'll try to make it happen.
@rupe53
Жыл бұрын
@@TopperMachineLLC ... use a cloth tape measure and a small spring to hold it around the tank, then zoom the camera in where the tape overlaps itself. Might be hard to see but I'd bet there will be 1/8" - 1/4" stretch in diameter.
@nefariousyawn
Жыл бұрын
@@TopperMachineLLC Fix the tank to a wooden base, and mount a cheap dial indicator on a post fixed to the same base with it measuring the side of the tank.
@andrewshearstone1101
22 күн бұрын
U nvr did blow those propane tanks up Josh :(
@TopperMachineLLC
22 күн бұрын
Time, I wish i had time. They are still sitting here.
@xephael3485
2 ай бұрын
1:26 not safe to use as an air tank? Well you would be 100% wrong as propane is 200psi and most air tanks are 150psi. Still watching the video but they're tested at factory I believe to be 600+psi when recertified.
@rmsflorida
Жыл бұрын
Jesus !!....
@lexpee
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if you have any neighbors.
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, yes. Fortunately, we all like blowing stuff up. Lol. Especially the explosives plant a mile away.
@dcollins4679
Жыл бұрын
@@TopperMachineLLC 1 mile = 1760 yards = 5280 feet = not far enough away!
@TopperMachineLLC
Жыл бұрын
@@dcollins4679 hardly ever hear them. I used to run the explosives train for a mine in Michigan. A million pounds of AN2 was a slow week. Really liked that little job. They would blast a mile away from the plant and the locomotive would shake.
@nikohamil538
Жыл бұрын
Go to a forest and shoot some explosive targets. Get it done right !
@drevil4454
Жыл бұрын
Ukrainians: "we can use this idea......!!!"
@glennmoreland6457
Жыл бұрын
Fill one of them tanks with that exploding stuff then shoot it... 🇬🇧😐
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