I'm not an insane fanboy, but the Jag controller was comfortable. Older controllers had numberpads, and the overlays were supposed to take adv of it. However, why would put the keypad on there, but only a THREE BUTTON controller? Street Fighter 2 was the killer app for everything, and it was out in 1992! Plenty of time to adjust for this!
@jcaseyjones2829
3 күн бұрын
Street fighter 2 on jag was never happening. Mk3 had a chance though. The number pad addition was frankly baffling, and there was no comfortable way to use it.
@todesziege
2 күн бұрын
@@jcaseyjones2829 Street Fighter 2 was released on pretty much every console and computer available at the time with the _exception_ of the Jaguar. A Jaguar version doesn't seem much stranger than Commodore 64 and Sega Master System versions. Of course, Capcom would never have bothered to developed a port themselves, but it could have been licensed out to some other (western) developer, like many of the other ports were. The keypad was a great feature for some games. Using it for changing weapons/items in games like Doom was much better than having to cycle through them one by one, as you had to do in every other console port at the time. Gamepads always struggled with inventories and menus.
@jcaseyjones2829
2 күн бұрын
@@todesziege Capcom was never coming to the jag unless it was a profitable project, at least potentially.
@todesziege
2 күн бұрын
@@jcaseyjones2829 In addition to the big consoles (SNES, Sega Mega Drive, PC Engine/Turbografx-16), versions of Street Fighter II or Super Street Fighter II were released on Game Boy, Commodore 64, Commodore Amiga, Amiga CD32, Fujitsu FM Towns, Sega Master System, Sharp X68000, ZX Spectrum, 3DO, PC/DOS and Atari ST. Do you really think it unfeasible a Jaguar version could have measured up in profitability to at least one of those?
@jcaseyjones2829
2 күн бұрын
@@todesziege I think you're not considering that those lowbrow computer ports were farmed out to budget labels who came to Capcom looking for the rights to make quick cash grab versions. I think you're overlooking, first, that you should be careful what you wish for, in that I don't think anyone would have really wanted to play what they would have produced, and, second, that it really says something that even these companies failed to attempt a jaguar port. Obviously even they disregarded Jag's chances of profitability. Sorry man, that's just how I see it.
@brianwolters7560
Күн бұрын
I grew up an Atari fan and even had the 7800. So when I was 24, I had my first career job of a Store Manager at Montgomery Ward. So now (for the time), I was making money! We sold the Atari Jaguar so I purchased it with Alien Vs. Predator. I was still single at the time so I played a lot of Jaguar at the time and while I could see and feel its limitations, I still loved it. And it is still in my attic today.
@conradojavier7547
Күн бұрын
Imagine a Console called The Atari Lion.
@jakeramos9775
9 сағат бұрын
Pls also make a video on who would manage the western video game industry after the 1980's crash if Nintendo didn't didn't take it over.
@todesziege
2 күн бұрын
This doesn't really adress the more fundamental problems with Jaguar, and with 90s Atari in general: 1) Mid-generation consoles always struggle. They struggle with attracting customers, who are still satisfied with their current systems, and they struggle with attracting 3rd party developers, who won't spend much resources on an unproven (and unpopular) system while there are already established systems. The Jaguar _did_ get some decent-ish 3rd party support, but most of it was barely-improved 16-bit ports that didn't take advantage of the system's power, and might even hurt more than it helped as such releases made the system look weaker than it was. This would have likely remained the case even if the system was easier to develop for or better documented, because 3rd party developers won't put their full force behind a system without a userbase. 2) Atari's first-party games simply weren't up to the standard of Nintendo, Sega or even NEC/Hudson, neither in terms of gameplay nor tech/graphics. As such, few would buy the system and Atari'll remain unable to attract 3rd party developers. Granted, neither Sony or Microsoft had much in the way of 1st party games when they arrived either, but they compensated for it with very deep pockets that allowed them to _buy_ 3rd party support (and massive marketing). Which brings us to... 3) Atari didn't have enough money to begin with. Their alternate revenue streams -- from computers (Atari ST/400), the handheld Lynx and vintage/budget games (mainly 2600) -- was drying up or had disappeared entirely by 1993. Most approaches that could have _helped_ the Jaguar -- more marketing, better support for 3rd parties, more/better games -- were not realistically on the table as it would have cost too much. They probably knew they didn't have the muscle to launch alongside the PS1/Saturn/N64, so the early/mid-gen launch was something of a hail mary that was unlikely to ever work out. I really can't see what they could have done differently.
@generalmclovin7104
Күн бұрын
For your next scenario, might I suggest an alternate timeline where project Iris was officially released as the fourth Gameboy. Project Iris was the original planned successor to the Gameboy Advance, a touch screen device inspired by the PDAs that were popular at the time. The story goes that Hiroshi Yamauchi’s final request to Satoru Iwata, before stepping down as president of Nintendo, was to develop a dual screen handheld to counter the widescreen PSP. Iwata gave the order to RND, they wired together two screens they had lying around, and Nintendo needing something to show off at E3 that year debuted it as the DS. Development on project iris would continue until 2008. After Steve Jobs announced the iPhone, Iwata realizing there was no way a PDA inspired device could fight the iPhone canceled the project. Lowspecgamer has pretty good video on this if you want a more in-depth version of the story.
@Dairunt1
5 күн бұрын
Fantastic content! I have some mobile-related topics if you're interested: - What if Bandai (WonderSwan) would have joined Nokia to make the N-Gage? (and had a complete overhaul; horizontal resolution, competitive $149 pricing, Bandai-licensed games, WonderSwan Color games carried over to the N-Gage) - What if Microsoft had taken Apple seriously and made their own Xbox handheld running Windows Phone in 2011 instead of Sony's Xperia Play? - What if Sony released the Vita at $199 instead of $249 (and used regular SD cards), with the trimming necessary for that price? - What if Sony gave the handheld market another chance and released a new model of the Xperia Play in 2019, right around the time of the Switch Lite and the discontinuation of the Vita?
@GameBoyss360
5 күн бұрын
Thank you! These are really interesting What if questions. I have a list currently on what my next What if video, I’ll try to get one of these questions if possible.
@SoulforSale
2 күн бұрын
What if the TurboGrafix16 had the PC Engine library?
@JCC3wasTaken
2 күн бұрын
I always wonder how atari Jaguar would look like if it didn't fail. Wonder what would the 3DO, Phillips CdI and amgia 32 CD
@ianmc87
22 сағат бұрын
If only it had more and better games available upon launch. The potential was there. I wonder if it would have made a difference if it was backwards compatible with the 2600 and 7800.
@InfiniteLoop
Күн бұрын
There is no “w” or “I “ in Jaguar. I still believe it failed because the owners kept stealing everyone’s silverware.
@AlexBissonnette
Күн бұрын
Atari outsourced all console development to outside companies since the 5200. They stiffed the company who developed the 7800 causing it to be delayed by 3 years, despite them being finished, packaged, and shipped in warehouses. They basically had no money since the 5200 and their main business model was to have someone else do all the hard work, then just not pay them.
@sebtroop23
4 күн бұрын
Great video I'm sometimes amazed by this recommendations of channels by youtube
@benbreeck3363
Күн бұрын
First, they needed to have had that writeback bug fixed before rollout. Next, they needed a better CPU than a dinky Motorola 68000 in 1993. I would have chosen an ARM Level 2 or 3 clocked at ca. 25 MHz. It's cheap enough, powerful enough, and European developers would already have had a toolkit to make it sing and dance. Finally, they should have redesigned the controller to resemble, say, the Sega Saturn NIGHTS controller, wouch could have been easily done uising the DE-9 jack with just a microcontroller and a shift register. That would have been a much more comfortable layout. But alas, it just wasn't ro be.
@sharptoothtrex4486
Күн бұрын
Even what if Apple back in 1983 bought both the Intellivision and Coleco Vision creating a newer updated console 16-Bit Apple Vision? It would not compete with Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo as examples.
@nigelkirk3103
2 күн бұрын
Assuming Sega does nothing different regarding the launch of the Saturn, I truly believe that in the what if scenario here, Jag could have passed it in North America.
@jackfunnysmart3298
5 күн бұрын
Your videos are really good I really like the what if scenarios. You remind me of Archimedes 123 videos. Do what if Nintendo failed and what if Sony and Nintendo were still on the same team.
@GameBoyss360
5 күн бұрын
Thanks man! I made a video called What if Nintendo and Sony created the PlayStation, were it dives into the world were Nintendo continued the CD addon partnership with Sony.
@SEFSQklOR0VS
4 күн бұрын
Damn, how do you only have 20 subs???
@ecdhe
Күн бұрын
When it comes to video game consoles, quality of games beats quantity. You just need a couple of killer games to get a good start. Halo almost singlehandedly supported the Xbox for years. But considering that the PlayStation displaced game juggernauts Nintendo and Sega, I doubt the Jag would have survived.
@josecano326
3 күн бұрын
So, the sixth gen would have nintendo, sega, sony, microsoft AND atari?👀
@GameBoyss360
3 күн бұрын
Thats Right!
@ahmedbarakat2007
5 күн бұрын
Wow, Didn't notice that you are starting as your content is actually too good, Good job buddy❤
@GameBoyss360
5 күн бұрын
Thank you so much!
@fakefaircatch
2 күн бұрын
If Atari Jaguar was successful throughout the 90's (assuming developers mastered programming on it), one might argue that Sony would have taken it's place as the console that would bomb, or several other things could have happened like Atari not opposing the same restrictions like limiting game releases or mappers on cartridges. Atari could have also been the pinnacle of gaming for decades if game development was just a little further ahead when the 64-bit era hit. If Atari was on the thrown, the butterfly effect might have impacted legacies such as Roller Coaster Tycoon, or we could have even had a Star Fox-esque Galaga game. Nonetheless, it would have been one heck of a time line for the gaming industry if Atari had more success in the 90's.
@juststatedtheobvious9633
Күн бұрын
With Sony's buy-out of talented teams and creation of easy to use libraries, there's no universe where Jack and Sam's Atari beats them. Not even in a universe where they didn't screw over as many people as possible. At best, it pulls a Dreamcast or a Colecovision.
@marcelosoares7148
Күн бұрын
If the Jaguar had been successful, the SEGA Saturn would probably bite the dust even faster instead of the Playstation failing, at least in North America.
@jakeramos9775
9 сағат бұрын
In my opinion even if the Jaguar is successful they would still failed in the next generation because of the lack of revenue and the company still crippled by the bankruptcy which required alot of money to be fix, couple with a new generation and powerful video game company on the horizon they would stood no chances.
@RetroGod1982
3 күн бұрын
The CD add-on was a scam? Why was it fake, vapourware, broken? What made it a scam? Or don't you know what the word scam actually means?
@GameBoyss360
3 күн бұрын
Maybe scam probably wasn't the best choice of words. I should've said faulty. As many CDs were pretty much unfinished and weren't properly developed. Sorry for the confusion
@jcaseyjones2829
3 күн бұрын
In effect, it WAS a scam. Tramiel claimed in an infamous interview that the CD addon would upgrade Jaguar titles to the point they could compete with Sega Saturn and Sony PlayStation. The addon added no hardware upgrade of any kind, and CD games look like cartridge games. Tramiel attempted to scam us with his claims about the CD addon. There's no real way around it, even for jag fans sucking on copium.😊
@jcaseyjones2829
3 күн бұрын
I got you, Gameboy.
@RetroGod1982
3 күн бұрын
@@jcaseyjones2829 no, in effect it wasn't a scam. It was a legitimate product. It offered the ability to produce larger games and FMV. You can't use the scam because you're unhappy with the product
@RetroGod1982
13 сағат бұрын
@@jcaseyjones2829 nice to see my response was removed.
@jonl2996
Күн бұрын
I think if Atari didn't use that they where a 64 bit system and just advertised as a new console with a better controller and as time went on the games would have been better and then advertised why buy another console when you own a Jaguar.
@loganjorgensen
Күн бұрын
Well the Jaguar controller was inherited from the Atari Falcon computer so it isn't an original design Ie. recycled, repurposed. Frankly when it comes to inborn keypads I've had that thought all the way back to the Intellivision since so few developers could utilized them fully. Largely I think the Jaguar keypad should have been optional like the 360 Chatpad.😉 Really they should have been CD-ROM based immediately, the cartridges weren't exactly large with Cybermorph actually having a smaller later variant to save money. Probably wouldn't save them from hardware problems in the optical drive but even Sony had issues with the PS1. The development kits seem to be the biggest problem as even Sega with their Saturn had trouble getting developers to actually use dual chip architecture in tandem as they intended. As far as games missing they really should have got Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat on there, even 3DO had SSF2T if not more Capcom titles. The titles they did get were kind of cross platform filler like Bubsy unfortunately.😬 Lastly funny how US people say "Jag-wire", I think it must have been read like Jaguire like Jerry Maguire for some reason and just stuck is my theory. Wouldn't get that pronunciation divide if it were named Panther or Tiger ijs.😄
@juststatedtheobvious9633
Күн бұрын
90's Atari isn't getting past their garbage reputation in the states, no matter what they do. Forget gamers using Atari as a synonym for kusoge; retailers and third parties had good reason to cheer for the Tramiel family to fail. And Atari needed money, bad. They weren't rushing everything out the door because they hadn't considered the importance of good games. Hell, they wanted Rayman as a mascot. But Rayman, even as an alternate universe exclusive, isn't beating Donkey Kong and Sonic. And those small cartridges were an issue, even when compared to the 3DO. Which would drop price to compete with them. Not that it matters... Throw in the cost of the Jag CD, and Sony beats them both on price and power, Even worse for Atari, the number of talented western console developers was limited, and heavyweights like EA, Psygnosis, and Rare were otherwise committed. Japan, unfortunately, saw Atari as an even bigger joke than the Americans did...you just aren't competing in the 90's without Japanese developers on board. The only way they stood a chance of not humiliating themselves was to focus on Europe, where the ST gave them a decent reputation...despite how Amiga owners regarded ST games.
@NiKo2935
7 сағат бұрын
what if Sega did what Atari and made a new console?
@jcaseyjones2829
3 күн бұрын
The problem is, the hardware simply doesn't stand up to the psx and Saturn, even if developed properly. Just look at the specs. It was never, ever going to do real textures on it's polygons at a good frame rate. It couldn't do decent frame rates on simple colored polygons. Everything was 12 fps at best in polygonal environments. Personally, i think they should have released Panther as soon as humanly possible and focused on arcade ports it could keep up with, but that's another conversation.
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt
3 күн бұрын
What does Panther do what others did not already? If they want to port arcade games, they could port to SNES or genesis! And Tramiel did not allow big ROMs like on the NeoGeo . For real arcade artwork, Panther would need to have a CD. Also I don’t get why Atari did not include a simple tile based background layer. Their Object processor needs more time finding out what to do and destroys the display list then actually drawing a background. There is no way to repeat a sprite pattern for example for a second background or a skybox or fields and waves in outrun. Scaling is low precision for no good reason. Like: Use all bits of the position, and if we need to reduce the linebuffer resolution due to fillrate problems, still use all bits (fixed point)! The Nintendo DS later used the Object processor for 3d, but devs were not happy. So best case would probably have been to go all in with z-buffer. Deferred rendering would avoid overdraw of textures. Transform vertices, for each polygon {read z, write z} , for each polygon { read z, if visible then read texels, write pixels } . Video DMA. So 6 memory accesses per pixel. TV consumes 4 MegaPixel . 64Bit process 4 pixels at once. So a memory clock of 14 MHz should be enough. There is time left for transformation and overdraw.
@jcaseyjones2829
2 күн бұрын
@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt my feeling is, and of course I am not the alternate timelines guru or anything here, but I think the jag hardware was so flawed, the development systems so bad, that it would have been near impossible to build a successful system out of it. You'd have to change things Atari had no money to change. That's why I say, it might have been better to try to kick the crap out of rival 16 bit systems with a 16/32 bit system rather than trying to leapfrog a generation and ending up competing with systems that just blew it out of the water. But hey, I don't know everything. Maybe I'm completely wrong.
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt
19 сағат бұрын
@@jcaseyjones2829 I actually don't understand why development of the Panther was so slow. Does it already have this CSV color space? It is a bit lame that Raiden only uses it for shadows. RGB could do this with a bit shift left. Jaguar has JRISC. Like SH2 it was build on the idea that on-die cache is now possible. While ARM2 was optimized to use memory without cache, and MIPS has this uh everything needs to run scalar, no matter the cost philosophy, JRISC would just run at a higher (internal) clock (like CISC) and need two cycles for some instructions, but could start an instruction every cycle. This is genius. This is fresh air.
@dogeymon83
3 күн бұрын
the jaguar should have come out in 1989 instead of 1993. then it would have been much more popular. it came out too close to the release of the playstation.
@ArneChristianRosenfeldt
3 күн бұрын
Intel released the i860 in 1989. That chip has more transistors and more MHz and is really 64Bit throughout and can do floats. So it was clear that these kind of chips will get cheaper over time. Why did IBM even has problems with yield? I say that the timing on the Jaguar was botched by the subpar hardware devs.
@2crude2crudeofficialband3
3 күн бұрын
“[The Jaguar] ultimately ended Atari’s career in the console market, never making a console again”. Wrong. Atari VCS was released in 2020, or 2021 to the general market. I do like this video though. A “what-if” alternate history, very interesting. Doing one for Sega would be great.
@jcaseyjones2829
3 күн бұрын
Wrong. Totally different company, and I suspect you knew that.
@2crude2crudeofficialband3
3 күн бұрын
@@jcaseyjones2829 The company may have changed hands a few times but it has existed in one state or another ever since. Legally it’s still Atari and the IP holder of everything Atari. Of course none of them same people are involved but most people don’t keep the same job for 35 years either. It may not be Atari in its original form but it’s still Atari. Before being absorbed by General Motors, Chevrolet was its own company. None of the people at Chevrolet are still there, because they’re long dead. Does that make it not-Chevrolet?
@jcaseyjones2829
3 күн бұрын
@@2crude2crudeofficialband3 yes, it makes it not the Chevrolet that existed originally. The Atari that made the Jaguar was not the original Atari itself. That ended with the tramiel buyout. The tramiel Atari produced the Jaguar, and all vestiges of the original Atari died with it. The company that exists now is a completely different company that simply bought the name. From the last company that simply bought the name. Tramiel bought a company with employees and products. So did the company that bought Chevrolet. They aren't the original companies, but they bought companies. They continued something. The current IP owners of the Atari name simply threw together a cheap PC, called it the vcs like the vultures they are, and then begged for money to make it. Not exactly continuing the good name of the founders of home gaming.
@2crude2crudeofficialband3
3 күн бұрын
@@jcaseyjones2829 Wow such anger! That’s amusing. Stay mad, it’s funny.
@GameBoyss360
2 күн бұрын
At the end of the context, I put the VCS on the bottom right corner, 3:58. But I guess it's not really clear enough, my bad
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