I really wish the buff applied to Leviathans, even partially. I mean, I get why, balance reason, but part of me wants to see that power...
@KurtKn1sp3l
Жыл бұрын
I am all for balance, but I seriously don´t see a balance issue here, as you would buff only your heavy weapon and nothing else. You are "sacrificing" you exo armor for 1 bow.
@halo3dia
Жыл бұрын
@@KurtKn1sp3l it would double the damage of Levi Breath, which is already a high damage weapon, Oathkeepers would make it the undisputed choice for any raid/dungeon, leading to the LFG kicking issue if people don't have Levi w catalyst.
@AshenHawk96
Жыл бұрын
Because the damage would probably be too insane. Leviathan's already tears through health bars with basically the damage output of some of the best rockets and the ammo capacity of a Linear Fusion, and the extra hold time wouldn't be as big of a factor considering it's already slow to fire even with the catalyst. With Oathkeepers essentially doubling the damage without needing extra shots, a lot of bosses would be getting shredded, and champions would be a joke even on the hardest content AND it could still be used in tandem with a legendary bow to double up the Oathkeeper's buffs for general play. Also what Squishydude above me said: the meta would be entirely tilted to the point that it becames the exclusively best option, and LFGs have a long history of vetting players only if they're using the literal best stuff.
@jonahbrown5669
Жыл бұрын
@@KurtKn1sp3l Doubling the damage of one of the highest damaging heavy weapons isn't much of a "sacrifice" at all.
@pocho928
Жыл бұрын
@@AshenHawk96 but by the time you wait for the buff someone already shot like 3 arrows
@DKC196
Жыл бұрын
I'd like to say that Oathkeepers does offer an alternative playstyle with Trinity Ghoul. You can continue using the regular gameplay loop of not fully drawing the bow to deal with adds, but when you come across a beefier enemy that isn't a boss I think that's when Adamantine Brace will come in handy. Now Trinity Ghoul is able to do damage on par with legendary special weapons like slug shotguns and aggressive sniper rifles to deal with the higher hp enemies.
@DKC196
Жыл бұрын
@@user-ux4gu2lh8c It does not unfortunately, but the lightning damage is enough to take out most red bars. You start getting into Legend or higher, you may need two lightning chains to take out a group of red bars.
@115zombies935
5 ай бұрын
That’s also why I like it with verglas. The ice crystals are already good enough, and with this perk the regular shots hit much harder, allowing you to either chunk a tougher enemy safely, or get the first kill more easily to get the perk going.
@thatoneguyinthecomments2633
Жыл бұрын
The fact you need to lower your rate of fire to increase per shot damage means this isn't really that big of a damage buff and it's more a utility thing that helps you stay closer to optimal DPS in situations where you gotta pop behind cover for couple extra seconds to regen health or something.
@jfelton3583
Жыл бұрын
Or if you're a pvp player you can be behind cover with a fully drawn arrow give you the time you need to get your shot off before and actual gun at any time
@RagnaRebellion
Жыл бұрын
@@jfelton3583 that has nothing to do with the buff.
@jfelton3583
Жыл бұрын
@@RagnaRebellion umm the damage buff while allowing you to wait behind cover yeah that couldn't possibly help
@austindelacruz5872
Жыл бұрын
@ViciousDredHed there is no damage buff for bows inside of pvp
@arjunbaweja7755
Жыл бұрын
@@jfelton3583 combatants is the key word here..
@firestrike5478
Жыл бұрын
Here to represent Ticuu's gang :)
@HyPNoTiKx
Жыл бұрын
LET'S GOOOOO
@woooyeahfunkytime4088
Жыл бұрын
for the love of god make it ignite please 🙏
@ITzKavez
Жыл бұрын
TICUU'S RAAAAAAAAAAAH
@bruceblack9975
Жыл бұрын
You know it 🏹🔥🔥🔥
@nemesisx9563
Жыл бұрын
My favorite weapon in the game. I haven't been using it much recently but for a while it was all I needed. Tag a couple people and then make the entire room explode
@SelecaoOfMidas
Жыл бұрын
Never expected Oathkeepers to buff any damage outside of the actual bow itself, so it's not really that disappointing (until you get to Leviathan's Breath not even getting that). Would be nice, but not the end of the world. But hey, now we know what the preferred exotic bow is to use with Oathkeepers, and some interesting data to go along with it. Great work!
@papertowels9162
Жыл бұрын
Bungie: "We felt Oathkeepers wasn't hitting our envisioned fantasy" Also Bungie: All the bows you WANT to use with this exotic do not work well with it
@SelecaoOfMidas
Жыл бұрын
@@papertowels9162 Define "well" Sounds like y'all want exotic bows buffed instead, which is a different conversation that should be had.
@papertowels9162
Жыл бұрын
@@SelecaoOfMidas Oathkeepers rewards you for waiting for the damage buff. All the exotic bows reward you for shooting fast.
@angelousmortis8041
Жыл бұрын
@@SelecaoOfMidas I mean, I want this perk to work like all other damage perks, i.e. effecting ALL instances of damage produced by the weapon and to effect all weapons that it SAYS it would. It doesn't say "all bows except Levi's Breath", it doesn't say "Only Arrow Damage", it says, "Gain a bonus to the Bow's Damage based on how long you hold the charge for". The Bow's Damage includes all effects it has that count for a kill with the weapon in my books. If, in the kill feed, the Weapon's Icon would show up in The Crucible, it's the Weapon's Damage.
@destinyhunter1926
Жыл бұрын
@@papertowels9162 so what you can gather from that is, you should be using it with a legendary bow, that you can have a damage perk on, which will allow you to stack damage
@gabrieltorres6633
Жыл бұрын
This exotic really helps out legendary bows especially in high end content where it takes two-three shots to kill a red bar. Having to always rely on archers tempo as a bow staple sucks.
@iponce2
Жыл бұрын
I wish "precision" weapons like bows and scouts and snipers had extra crit damage against red bars. Feel like it'd make them feel way better in higher end content and reward players for hitting their shots more consistently.
@hardluckmk.52
Жыл бұрын
But even dragonfly and explosive head dont work
@asawarai
Жыл бұрын
Point of the Stag is probably a solid pick. No Distractions + Vorpal (+20% since it’s a primary)
@JoseCuervo11
Жыл бұрын
Yeah they really need to make archers tempo intrinsic at this point
@ParadoxEcho
Жыл бұрын
There is no reason not to buff leviathans breath other than that it stretches your ammo. If you are trying to dps a target you want to fire with perfect draw literally every shot because if you land your crits, the over all damage output would be higher than waiting 3 seconds between shots. The over all dps should be lower but your ammo will last longer.
@evanogburn
Жыл бұрын
You don't have to wait 4 seconds and get the max stack, you could just get up to tier 1, which is still a pretty big damage increase, and that doesnt take long to reach.
@bofa722
Жыл бұрын
Tf? I had a stroke trying to read this Im assuming what you mean is: when trying to damage a target for burst DPS it's better to not use the buff since that'll tank your DPS; but with said buff, it makes your total damage much more so it's only good when trying to be conservative / efficient with ammo
@stefano_.
Жыл бұрын
I was so keen to try out oathkeepers especially with leviathan's breath it's a shame most of the exotics have absolutely no synergy. Hoping that future updates make this thing nuts.
@VAVORiAL
Жыл бұрын
Levi is stromg enough on its own.
@kisukeurahara189
Жыл бұрын
Oath keepers with le monarque one taps most the time pvp. 2 void loaders... 1 perfect draw, one quick draw, it's guardian down
@VAVORiAL
Жыл бұрын
@@kisukeurahara189 LM never oneshots in PVP without a damage buff and Oathkeeper's damage increase doesn't work in PVP.
@binhvan4893
Жыл бұрын
@@VAVORiALDude must be playing in momentum
@KurtKn1sp3l
Жыл бұрын
@@VAVORiAL Like every other bow in this list. I love LB even before it got buffed, but Oathkeepers should work with LB too.
@The_Ragequit_Cannon
Жыл бұрын
Fun fact: Unsure if this is bug or an intended feature, and I haven't tested it this season yet, but if you whip out Hierarchy of Needs in the Helm, you can occasionally hear a bit of warmind garble. It seems to only work if you do it near where you'd go to see the exo frame last season
@sahassler2750
Жыл бұрын
Hierarchy of Needs has always done that, actually, and can be heard everywhere in the game! Lore wise, it isn't actually the Warmind saying the noise but instead Sotaria the Augur Mind since it is her code that escaped the Aries Spire into the bow.
@S3BAST1AN696
Жыл бұрын
Levaithans has to be changed to work with oathkeepers, having to substantially lower your ROF for the additional damage makes it perfectly fair. You loose pretty much the best DPS value of the catalyst and the levaithan is far from OP as it is.
@FlashesSoccer011
Жыл бұрын
Leviathan breath is actually insanely strong as it is.
@iponce2
Жыл бұрын
I definitely wouldn't call Levi OP, but it's pretty damn good where it's at. I'm more worried it'll get nerfed, honestly
@urazz7739
Жыл бұрын
If they do make Oathkeepers affect Leviathan's Breath, I imagine it'll be set to be at a much lower level, i.e. a 10% increase at the most.
@S3BAST1AN696
Жыл бұрын
@@urazz7739 the thing is when you account for things that don't already get one showed or two showed by leviathan, aka bosses in raids, and you account for dps phases length I don't think it would be more op than existing meta with rockets especially with the new GotD rocket launcher. But they could lower the damage you get per level to be lower than others I think thay would be fine and give you a choice to single big hit yellow bars and minibusses or just use archers tempo for raid boss, which I would guess would still most likely chunk more DPS at the end thay waiting for a level 5 perfect draw
@ScottJuencke
Жыл бұрын
Leviathans as it sits can literally one shot champions under the right circumstances. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it
@progectinferno2072
7 ай бұрын
Can we just take a moment to appreciate destinys bow animations? Ysah, not all of them are perfect, but, I'm genuinely impressed that they took the time to make a large number of these bows move and bend as youd expect from real life bows. There's quite a few satisfying bow animations here. Le monarque for example has a REALLY crisp and visually pleasing compound bow animation. You can see the frame bend, and the uhh, ?wheels? spin, making the draw actually have this feeling of tension and the visual illusion that the gaurdian actually has to put some effort into pulling the string back!
@camrendilbeck
4 ай бұрын
Yes! Bungie did bows incredibly well and they feel so much better then any other game I’ve played with them asides from Horizon Zero Dawn. Though for all the lightweight recurve bows it does slightly annoy me that the metal bends because that just doesn’t make sense, but they nailed the feeling of greater and greater tension before the systems kicks in and lowers the draw on the compound bows. Le Monarque definitely feels the best imo
@BlueDryBones1
Жыл бұрын
Of all the Bows imo Verglas Curve is probably the best. While it may not work with the Stasis Crystals I believe you forgot to touch on the damage using Whisper of Rending. If you triple stack Surges the bow fully charged does 652% bonus damage from base. Since you can freeze from hipfire its pretty nice for big burst damage on beefier targets since without kills you wont be able to get the freeze shots in volume to make up for the time used to charge it. More importantly it has strong synergy with Duskfields as between shots you can charge the bow while you wait for them to Freeze. If you are good with timing you can even get the bonus freeze damage between freezes on the stasis super. Its nothing crazy but its the best synergy this bow has since you are also creating cover which also works well with the overall gameplay loop. The damage on Red Bars is also hilariousy overkill with the additional 40% buff.
@thezblah
Жыл бұрын
I think the big issue here is that all the exotic bows add some kind of auxiliary damage effect or alternate mechanic that is just not buffed by oathkeepers. Oathkeepers are DPS neutral on legendary bows with draw times above 600 (as far as I'm aware) and without perks like explosive head or archer's tempo (some of the top go-to DPS perks). The addition of these "on-hit" procs (lemon poison, wishender's broadhead, explosive head) tip it from DPS neutral to a hefty DPS loss, since the extra procs only care about volume of shots. I think the buff needs to be stronger or affect all bow damage, not just the initial arrow hit. As they stand now they're a crutch for new bow users or those with really, really bad connection. Even in PvP you don't want to indefinitely hold a shot all the while waddling like your pants fell around your ankles. When you learn the reload stall trick to edge your perfect draw Oathkeepers become wholly unnecessary in the Crucible.
@frostyato8066
Жыл бұрын
Reload canceling is broken, least for me it is. Unless I get a perfect release on my Reload the arrow shoots and even then after one or two draws it stops working
@brycethewrecker9800
Жыл бұрын
@@frostyato8066 full auto breaks it, take it off and try it again, only useful in pvp anyways
@frostyato8066
Жыл бұрын
@@brycethewrecker9800 you fuckin with me? Holy shit thank you, I've been playing at 80% of my normal strength in pvp for MONTHS now.
@brycethewrecker9800
Жыл бұрын
@@frostyato8066 i usually run a bow with an smg, it just works for me, I'm a cqc player but don't mind mid range, always annoyed me but realized since I'm already using a full auto gun I could turn it off
@frostyato8066
Жыл бұрын
@@brycethewrecker9800 baller, I run a steady hand wt quick draw but only really use it when I'm irritated.
@adambeck427
Жыл бұрын
one note about Ticuus is that the explosion damage ramps up along with the causality arrows, as long as you hit the crit. It's not gonna break the bank, but its DPS is on pace with Heirarchy's max damage, only being eeked out by Heirarchy in DPS due to not needing to shoot twice to proc the damage.
@Foxintox
Жыл бұрын
They should make hiereachy of needs' circle bigger and make it so that it blocks enemy damage in pve (or gives you like 75% damage reduction) Either that or make the extra projectiles apply to anything shot through it including teammates' weapons (with damage depending on the fire rate of the weapon used)
@Kazuhira2249
Жыл бұрын
this and make so you dont need to fire at distance literally all enemies always rush at you just make so firing through a ring gives a flat damage increase the damage it gives on max distance isnt even that impressive especially now look at malfeasance, also make it work with oathkeeper theres no reason for it not work
@PapiClaus
Жыл бұрын
Verglas stasis has like the aspect to increase primary damage
@route77productions
Жыл бұрын
By 43%
@ST-nv5cs
Жыл бұрын
Yeah I've been doing testing on all the bows myself... Rending is the largest possible damage bonus for any of the bows. Like 213.75% if I remember from my testing. Ticuus hits the hardest but Vergy applies the freeze itself. Which lasts long enough for you to fully draw the arrow. Best gameplay loop by far.
@cshadekillerproductions
Жыл бұрын
@@cerigittins6178 I have no clue what kind of damage test you're doing; you're just straight up incorrect. I just tested it and Verglas doesn't even come close to the total amount of damage Wishender does, let alone the precision damage itself. I have a video for proof I can upload as well. Double check if you have surge mods, stasis subclass equipped when you had verglas on, both weapons are the same light level (I did mine with both at 1810), and you're actually charging both to the max. Here were my damage numbers on Carl: VERGLAS - 29,204 WISHENDER - 33,256 Precision, 14,065x2 piercing. Edit: Just to be clear, I even show in my video as well that I have no surge mods on, both weapons are 1810, clearly shows highest tier of Oathkeeper, and I put on the arc subclass so that neither weapon benefits from any subclass damage buff or aspect buff.
@cshadekillerproductions
Жыл бұрын
@@cerigittins6178 "got nothing to do with what’s on paper, tried it in practical use, comparing the single damage hit with both bows with the full draw perk on oath’s, without any surge mods to boost kinetic or stasis weapons,..." I thought we were doing an actual damage test, not a "lemme buff the fuck outta this one damage type and do nothing to the other, then claim it's god tier and shits all over the other" test. Edit: Just finished my testing of both, I put on 3 surge mods for stasis and the stasis subclass with rending and tried Verglas, then did the stasis subclass with rending with 3 surge mods for kinetic and tried Wishender. Here are my results, which still show Wishender coming out completely on top - VERGLAS - 76,156 Precision, 11,392 Shatter. WISHENDER - 60,706 Precision, 25,675x2 Piercing, 11,392 Shatter.
@markevens
Жыл бұрын
Wishender is so good! Got me through the entire legendary campaign, only taking it off for witherhoard on Calus
@QuiescentEntropy
Жыл бұрын
Ticcu’s with oath keepers will be nuts against red bars in endgame content, you don’t even necessarily need to reach tier 4 with them to shred adds back to back, plus the timing isn’t all that important
@iTzDaddyFatSack
Жыл бұрын
Yeah but at that point use just trinity ghoul and use your exotic armor slot for something else
@SilkyJohnson7
Жыл бұрын
So Oathkeepers is still extremely niche and just using a bow regularly is more efficient. Gotcha
@Puck90a
Жыл бұрын
The base exotic perk of oathkeepers is constantly useful in the pvp context. I love using it with any bow. I like waiting behind walls and sneaking around corners with the bow drawn for as long as I want, hoping someone else peeks or floats around, without me ever having to worry about my aim getting shaky. I crutch on the perk pretty hard. I worry if I would even still be able to use bows if I didn't have oathkeepers, because I've gotten so used to it.
@SilkyJohnson7
Жыл бұрын
@@Puck90a exactly the kind of people i bag in pvp lol
@ForTheViolence
Жыл бұрын
@@Puck90a oh yeah, I’m bagging you.
@Puck90a
Жыл бұрын
@@SilkyJohnson7 Don't worry. My bow will never be any match for your immortal spam. Your KD is safe, but bag if you must.
@SilkyJohnson7
Жыл бұрын
@@Puck90a i have like 5 kills with immortal. Try again
@Jpow5734
Жыл бұрын
I’ve always loved the appearance of oathkeepers but always thought the perk wasn’t good enough to use it but if it’s been buffed then I’m all for it.
@karadinx
Жыл бұрын
The issue with the damage buff is that it basically just comes out to giving you the arrows you could have been shooting the whole time you are charging the buff. If it worked on the inverse, having a strong bonus then decaying to only giving normal Perfect Draw damage then it would be fantastic, but as it stands you will almost never actually take advantage of the damage bonus if you are playing properly.
@Wav03
Жыл бұрын
@@karadinx yea I see this as only truly viable in Uber endgame tier shit
@angelousmortis8041
Жыл бұрын
It was always a PvP exotic for Bows with little to no reason to use it in PvE, which honestly still kinda seems to be the case.
@friendlyelites
Жыл бұрын
Gonna say it again, Hierarchy of Needs is not a Hunter's bow it's for Warlocks. The entire purpose behind the exotic is that you don't want to leave your rings so you want to build into a playstyle that lets you camp with your ring and dish out your damage infinitely. This means the best pairs for the bow are Boots of the Assembler (extending rifts and giving ranged support to allies), Phoenix Protocol (get Well back faster so you can camp longer), and by far the best pairing Sanguine Alchemy (free damage boost and infinite rift duration with kills). Sanguine lets you run scavs instead of surge mods on your legs to refill your heavy ammo and since Hierarchy is an exotic primary built for sustained ad clear you get heavy ammo drops twice as often as legendary primaries with ammo finders. It's so weird hearing Cross trash on Hierarchy so much when its incredibly effective once you actually build into it, the raw damage from using the bow alone will regen your Well before its even run out. It's goddamn cracked.
@ArceoRenix
Жыл бұрын
Cross isn't a diehard bow player and doesn't understand ins and outs of bows at a fundamental level, so watching this is incredibly painful especially when he tries to trash Hierarchy for absolutely no reason because he fails to take into account how to use it lmao. He's also trying to make an exotic that's never been good into something good when it never will be... Especially when you could just fire the arrows one after another instead of trying to make use out of its frankly USELESS exotic perk, I'd rather run anything else than Oathkeepers.
@angelousmortis8041
Жыл бұрын
Counterpoint with the same logic: Titans as well, between Citan's Shoot Through Barricades, Bastion Barricades, Hoarfrost-Z's Crystal Barricades, Rally Barricades as a whole, and Sunspots (especially with Phoenix Cradles which makes Sol Invictus 10 second not 5) we're pretty good at posting up and saying "This is my spot now".
@Paul-EtienneFontaine-ov7xx
Жыл бұрын
I'm honestly amazed by the level, the quality and the depth of the analysis you put on this video.
@jordanfrench3295
Жыл бұрын
Verglas Curve is actually insane with oath keepers. I recommend taking a second look at it with stasis fragments involved, in particular whisper of fissures and whisper of rending. Don't shoot the stasis crystal itself but instead the frozen target. It's some pretty big burst damage off of a primary and if you freeze multiple targets with something like a cold snap grenade it can chain react (the shatter damage not the bow damage).
@AshenHawk96
Жыл бұрын
Earnestly I think Verglas is a strong contender. It's easy to freeze enemies in PvE and the bow can do it fairly easily on its own. Being able to ramp up to unbuffed Wish Ender levels of damage on frozen headshots while still having the option to use crystals for crowd control and ad clear on the same weapon is pretty versatile.
@kylarkage1119
Жыл бұрын
What about for Legendary Bows? It would of course be difficult to test every legendary bow but I am curious if Oathkeepers would buff the dmg from explosive payload? If there might be value in using a legendary bow with Oathkeepers.
@asawarai
Жыл бұрын
I think some legendary bows should be a consideration. Point of the Stag is one anyone can grab - it has No Distractions and Vorpal (20% bonus since it’s a primary), should do pretty well.
@ze_darku_magician5504
Жыл бұрын
Verglas, Oathkeepers is not great on their own but add whisper of rending and you deal pretty significant damage vs frozen enemies. Makes for a fun loop of using Stasis-arrows + Duskfield grenades to explode smaller enemies, freeze majors and then kapow them. Not saying it's particularly good tho. I really hope Oathkeepers gets another slight buff as in increasing exotic weapon perk damage or increasing the damage buff to something like 200%-250%. It's really fun to stack up damage and one shot majors with it. Just wish it actually increased dps or synergized better for some fun playstyles.
@kingrogers7740
Жыл бұрын
Y’all are goated for finding that 1 frame damage bug, I’ll be interested to find out if Bungie didn’t noticed and Oathkeepers were bugged
@gamerprodigy107
Жыл бұрын
I personally prefer ticcu's. You always have some kind of buff. Just because it is hard tp get both going it is nice to have at least 1 and sometimes two. Give it surge mods and siphon mod. Then stack radiant. And you have 4 sources of buffs at all times.
@mauroaramburu
5 ай бұрын
I was interested in the Oathkeeper/Verglas synergy and managed to consistently get a 63049 shot at carl without any buffs except for Whisper of Rending. Maybe recent updates buffed this interaction a bit
@stevenchristensen4542
Жыл бұрын
This is the issue with bows (and DPS in general, I guess): in basically every circumstance, you’re encouraged by sheer numbers to just be fast. That’s what every DPS meta ever was; as big a number as quickly as possible. There’s no patience or waiting involved, none at least that make the speed worth substituting. For this to be worth it, the damage would have to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher on the back end of the buff or else it would have to apply to the secondary damage in addition to the arrow’s impact. As it stands, Oathkeepers has made a completely lateral move that doesn’t really make it any more worth your time than before.
@pirate_duck4985
Жыл бұрын
As someone that quite enjoys using a Bow, it's one of those weapons I don't use regularly but when I slap one on? It takes a while to swap off! Other than Verglas Curve & using Revenant (Without Oathekeepers) it seems like the buff is FAR more beneficial to Legendary Bows... Which is where the issue comes in. Exotic Bows are the ones with all the crazy damage dealing buffs that don't benefit from Oathkeepers pretty much at all! Also, aside from Leviathans Breath none of them are really designed to be used for DPS against really beefy targets! Some definitely have uses against champions but that's really as far as Bows go when it comes to actual DPS. It's almost as if Bungie wanted it that way =O
@SilverCyric
Жыл бұрын
1:59 If you’re doing add clear with Wishender, just line them up. You’ll clear a dozen in 3-4 arrows when tightly grouped.
@mrwhiffy2045
Жыл бұрын
I knew it was unlikely, but I was hoping it works really good Hierarchy. Hierarchy is one of my fav exotics just cuz it looks so insane and stupidly big (and also it dropped for me when I had covid, the game pitied me lol) Super fun to use, and I still love it. Bungo plz buff Hierarchy. Give the seeking projectiles scorch or something.
@sahassler2750
Жыл бұрын
I agree. Hierarchy is one of my favorite exotics from the look to the lore and the gameplay. I've used it in every GM for the past 2 seasons since it just shreds champions with the arrow volleys. Adding scorch would be nice for some solar 3.0 synergy, but I would much rather have it that the seeker volleys don't have a limit on the distance they can travel. 80 meters and they just dissappear.
@NerdyEvans-zm5or
Жыл бұрын
As a ticcus main , it pretty easy to just keep the loop going plus once you get the timing your just a mini nuke factor with caliban’s hand
@PetesCreativeRecycling
5 ай бұрын
Seems to me like Le Monarch is a good one with Oath Keepers because you can hold indefinitely and still get the poison shot... because you can't get the poison effect unless you release immediately after full draw otherwise.
@Farengast
Жыл бұрын
Pretty sure ADS perfect draws without sacred flame refresh the timer without increasing the stacks. So once at 5 or 6 stacks of causality arrow you can just repeat ADS perfect draws without hip firing at all to keep the buff. You lose out on the explosion damage but maybe the oathkeeper buff is enough to make up for it?
@115zombies935
5 ай бұрын
The damage buff isn’t something you should be trying to go for on every shot, think of it as free bonus damage when you aren’t instantly firing your bow. Something that’ll happen a lot, especially in more difficult content that you take at a slower pace like GM’s. You can hold your bow shot, take a couple seconds to aim and/or find a target, and then shoot while still getting the perfect draw bonus and a nice extra chunk of damage. Plus it also gives you a free extra draw time master work and better accuracy in the air. Personally I actually really like it with verglas. In difficult content it really helps with getting your first kill to get the bow going.
@Zurrke
Жыл бұрын
'bungie has not said anything about this' 17:23 Yes, they have - when they announced the buff for oathkeepers, they specifically said it would not work with Leviathans on purpose.
@litfuses7765
Жыл бұрын
15:45 a cabal goes into orbit
@evilpac2327
Жыл бұрын
If the bonus damage would just stay at lvl 4 and not vanish with time, I think it would be better, and have true sinergy with the main perk of the exotic.
@Welverin
Жыл бұрын
That is quite literally the opposite of what they wanted with this change. The entire point of adding the damage bonus was to encourage people to be more active and not passively sit back holding shots indefinitely.
@evilpac2327
Жыл бұрын
Yes, I know, but that is against the very exotic as well. They are saying: look, you can keep the perfect charge forever, but don't. At least that's how I feel.
@V1rtualFlod
Жыл бұрын
Verglas is by far the best synergy. The stasis fragment that increases primary damage by 40ish% stacks with Oathkeepers, and Verglas allows you to freeze targets very easily. You can hit a frozen enemy with a charged shot, causing them to shatter and shattering nearby crystals at the same time for high damage. Not to mention you can pair it with shatter dive for quick ad clear, giving you a lot of options. The charge up time of Oathkeepers also aligns with the freeze time of duskfield grenades perfectly, allowing you to get 3 back to back charge shots in a row with the freeze damage buff.
@Lightstation_
Жыл бұрын
With Le Monarque you would do extra damage with the base arrow. So it does more damage for the poison to finish off enemies easier
@mrsherm8639
Жыл бұрын
But how had said at some point the leviathan synergy not working is intentional, they can always go back on that or change it tho in the future!
@JoMorem
Жыл бұрын
15:47 A goblin vex got yeet to the sky by a phalanx 🗿
@thecrazedmonkey8570
Жыл бұрын
Cross, that wrong damage value for 1 frame isn’t just for bows and oathkeeper, it’s for every weapon in the game apparently. I was testing 2 different auto rifles’ DPS to see if 4th Times or Reconstruction was a better pairing perk for Target Lock, and I saw that glitch happen multiple times with both ARs. It was very confusing, but dismissible nonetheless as it doesn’t actually damage the target for that wrong number. Just thought you should know :)
@ajwalker4416
Жыл бұрын
Looking forward to the video that talks about the legendary bows and what kind of synergy is available there.😁
@Tuck44
Жыл бұрын
Was thinking the same thing. Does it stack with incandescent, etc.?
@kadenvessey4638
Жыл бұрын
So with Verglas Curve, the gameplay loop shouldn't be killing a bunch of targets then firing your barrage. You get the stasis arrow off the the shatter damage kills from the stasis crystals created by those arrows. So the loop should be getting one kill, then shooting a crystal into a group. shattering it, then getting much more stasis arrows and repeating it.
@kuratsaamad
Жыл бұрын
its only good in gambit for Levi's, as you can hold the draw and ADS in and out to see where they are, plus you can double jump while holding the draw, then snipe them.
@mitcheldenhartog1886
Жыл бұрын
Glad to see Ticuus getting some love again. Amazing just how quick you can get that shot off
@greyastray9875
Жыл бұрын
I might have gotten a built idea. Oathkeepers on Revenant using Raconteur and Salvation's Grip. All you're really doing with this build is making a crap ton of Stasis crystals and Shatterdiving, using them to fuel a energy weapon that has Collective Action. Course I just made this off the top of my head so this build isn't exactly perfect and definitely needs lots of work.
@NeroNyte
Жыл бұрын
Seems like they just don't help any bows gameplay loop. I feel like the power buff should go the opposite direction, like start at tier 4 and quickly fall off. That would make it help literally any bow (that applies the buff) and encourage more skill with loosing perfect draws, but not penalizing for missing them.
@dawnsluna5702
Жыл бұрын
I don't understand the Hierarchy of Needs hate. Its clears a room, charges on hit (not just kill), has great primary damage, and all you have to do is find a good spot to post up for a couple seconds. Once the extra arrow kills refill your bar from the room clear, you can deploy somewhere else and repeat
@sahassler2750
Жыл бұрын
I think the main reason for the hate is that Hierarchy is clunky to get rolling. It's base draw speed is the same as Wishender without the instant damage, and many compare it to the snappy Ticcu's Divination due to them both being solar bows. Most people will try Hierarchy in the strike playlist or the seasonal activities, and in seasons without a bow champion mod, it loses the versatility of Wishender and Le Monarch in an environment where people are fighting for kills. Combine that with how many people rely on Burst Damage tests, like Cross, to determine a weapon's place in the meta, and you get people feeling underwhelmed about the exotic. Hierarchy excels in high end content since its sustained damage is the highest of any primary. Outbreak needs multiple people for maximum effectiveness and some people will suggest having 2 Ticcus, one hipfiring one adsing, but that's an unreasonable ask. GMs, Master Dungeons/Raids, and Contest mode Raid where the players know they will run out of heavy ammo in the damage phase is Hierarchy's bread and butter. Most people just don't use it in the activities most suitable for its strengths.
@drewwrobel
Жыл бұрын
I think the benefit with legendary bows could come in if you are ever under leveled in an activity. Bows are great versatile weapons but i've found that even with the proper mods on it still won't one hit minors or even reasonable take down majors if power level isn't on my side. These gauntlets could give the helpful bump in dmg while staying safe in cover to peak out and flat kill targets i couldn't before.
@ForeverLaxx
Жыл бұрын
All that really matters is if the increased damage for holding a draw offsets or outpaces the damage of using the bow normally. I noticed that, as expected, you didn't even consider this aspect. Thankfully, with the numbers provided, these calculations can be easily made without you.
@essenel
Жыл бұрын
That cabal getting yeeted at 15:46
@hedgehog6041
Жыл бұрын
The problem is that it hurts dps for holding the bow. The damage buff just isn't enough to hold it for that long, especially for the exotics.
@therkokid215
Жыл бұрын
I love how he keeps saying Hierarchy of Needs is trash, but if you play with its perk, you'll see that Hierarchy was made for a warlock using Mantle of Battle Harmony.
@KermitOfWar
Жыл бұрын
Hmm, I might need to dust off my Warlock & test some builds. I have Hierarchy, just need the catalyst from Master dungeon,
@eri_sister_of_aerial
Жыл бұрын
Oathkeepers is still great for Leviathan's Breath due to the 33 ms it shaves off on it which helps it and always having the max damage nuke arrow shot.
@ST._Trinas_Torch
Жыл бұрын
New exotic idea I just had, a kineticnglaive called ravenous edge, it deals poison melee and fires shrapnel in a shotgun spread, is a rapid-fire glaive.
@frustratedlemur
Жыл бұрын
Be nice if it was just an elongated gears of war chainsaw shotgun
@ST._Trinas_Torch
Жыл бұрын
@Frustrated Lemur that would be insane, thank you, you are godly for that
@frustratedlemur
Жыл бұрын
@@ST._Trinas_Torch too bad bungo won’t let us have fun 😂
@ST._Trinas_Torch
Жыл бұрын
@@frustratedlemur riiiight
@daakiik7pickles830
Жыл бұрын
Hey cross i notice something interesting with the bug-out bag. I got a roll with incandescent and gutshot straight i swear there is something weird going onnand idk if its the roll of perks or the arcitype of the weapon but it feels like gutshot is increasing the scorch damage of incandescent when an enemdies dies from the bugout bag. Ive yet to get a roll with only incandesent but maybe worth looking into if its like kinetic tremors and gutshot stacking
@daakiik7pickles830
Жыл бұрын
And sorry not kinetic tremors, explosive payload is what I meant to say
@DitzyDollie22
Жыл бұрын
Could you make a video for No Backup Plans and find the best shotgun for it? I've been addicted to it and would love to see it
@RebelOfTheNorm242
Жыл бұрын
As a Titan main, the best bow/exotic combo is: Ticuus Div/ Path of Burning Steps. Absolutely insane synergy, esspecially with radiant. THE DAMAGE!!! Although, Eternal warrior/Trinity Ghoul is a close ass second.
@gcock257
Жыл бұрын
I might have lost my mind, but when I was using trinity with Oathkeepers, I could’ve sworn the lightning was dealing more damage
@FaolanKitekaze
Жыл бұрын
Oathkeepers was pretty much always designed to work with wish ender specifically, so it still being the best pairing doesn't surprise me
@1stbestpokemaster
Жыл бұрын
Hierarchy is the one that needed the extra damage. You have to set it up which sucks. Then finally you can do some decent damage. It would have been amazing if oathkeepers buffed the seeking arrows but noooooo bungie doesn’t like fun things.
@attackmanatee02
Жыл бұрын
Since it's such a stationary weapon, heiracrchy would be good with sanguine alchemy
@tjudawous
Жыл бұрын
i would have loved it with wish enders but the half hour draw time almost seems like a dps loss. i feel like i could unload with an autorifle and deal the same amount of damage
@Zero_8347
Жыл бұрын
Have you tried Wolftone with Adagio...? can do 120k damage
@OffMeta-Gaming
Жыл бұрын
i'd say rework oath keeps to increase the max range of bows, 10-20% anti flinch and a few more frames of handling or draw speed what ever it already does. Bows are really good in PVE but PVP they can't really compete. they are beat by hand cannons, the few auto rifles you'd use, and pulses
@GavinLIVE715
Жыл бұрын
Ticuus needs to be slightly reworked to work with Solar 3.0. Imagine if it either: A) Sacred Flame counted as a Scorch stacks, and a fully drawn shot ignites scorched Targets(casualties stacks also increase ignition damage created by said full drawn shots). Or B) Slightly less versatile, but Just let Ticuus fully drawn shot be able to ignite scorched targets(with same casualty stacks buffing damage like above). Honestly the top one is A is probably too strong, but Hunters can already do the same in PVP with using two abilities, but that’s at the cost of said two abilities. I would love to just see Ticuus work well alongside Solar builds though, it deserves it.
@markallen4282
Жыл бұрын
So ... how many seconds does it take for each tier to build? There might be a play for some arc type in legendary bows if the time to advance tiers is a fraction of of the draw time
@marvinbocks5158
Жыл бұрын
Bungie said in the TWAB, where the changes to Qathkeepers where listed, that Leviathans Breath would not benefit from the buff that Oathkeepers give. So sadly this is intended from bungie not to work.
@isuccnewton2654
Жыл бұрын
an interesting change would be if oathkeepers stalled your LEGENDARY BOW'S perk cooldowns while adamantide brace is active and charging. aka archers tempo, successful warmup, rampage, all perks with a time limit. cause there isnt a reason to use a legendary bow with this.
@ghostingyou1218
Жыл бұрын
I'd like to see if Oathkeepers could buff Le Monarque enogh to 1 shot in PvP with Radiant.
@CaptainKush420
Жыл бұрын
I'd be interested to see how Oathkeepers buffs bows with damage perks. Seems like the arms would do well to elevate legendary bows, since they don't work with secondary effects
@dizzykrogan
Жыл бұрын
I mean, leviathan’s breath and oathkeepers has been one of my favorite things for gambit. So for gambit specifically, still good.
@gunstru
Жыл бұрын
Yeah after thinking about it would LB actually benefit from the buff? Bc of the catalyst giving it archer tempo basically wouldn’t that counteract the holding of the shot on LB
@big_gucci_scorpio328
Жыл бұрын
The oath keepers and leviathans not working is due to the fact that leviathans has a different damage scaler then the other bows to keep it balanced its supposed to cap at a 75% damage increase rather than the 150% increase and its currently being over written by the higher damage increase of the other bows causing the leviathans scaled to not work at all, so chock this up as another bug that came with this season, i was told there is a fix coming to patch this but when is unclear bcuz there are ither problems that are more important atm
@slagle92
Жыл бұрын
Seeing that oath keepers does not boost exotic perks, would it be safe to assume that it would not boost legendary perks? Dragonfly, Explosive head, kill clip, frenzy, etc?
@xalron
Жыл бұрын
I am usually unlucky but my first DSC run gave me the exotic. I am yet to obtain any other dungeon/raid exotic though...
@GrandmaDestiny
Жыл бұрын
Sad that out of the box Oathkeepers is bugged. I thought it would be OP! Found out first week when on hunter it wasn't so great. Sad about LB, too, and put a comment on Bungle's forum. No response.
@cfreeses
Жыл бұрын
I do want to know pvp numbers and if the damage buff helps in a meaningful way in pvp
@toastedkulo4155
Жыл бұрын
because you mentioned teather with leviathans breath i have to ask because it was my understanding that teather doesnt debuff for heavy weapons specifically, did they revert that change?
@camrendilbeck
4 ай бұрын
I’m 11 months late but as far as I know, yes. Before void 3.0 it used to be a unique debuff effect and now it’s weaken which affects all weapons.
@VoxVoyce
Жыл бұрын
I feel like they need to just cut the damage bonus by a sizable amount but make it fully activated the moment you hit perfect draw. Keep the infinite hold time, but give you a, I don't know... 30% increase in damage for a shot fired within one second of hitting full draw? That way its just a buff for bows that encourage you to perfect draw while still keeping its infinite draw time utility. Either that or make the meter grant you half the damage bonus right away but still take the same amount of time to reach the maximum bonus. Also just give it the Lucky Pants/Eriana's treatment and make the bonus damage work for Leviathan's but at a greatly reduced increase. And in case any of that sounds like a problem for PvP, they've proven that they can balance things seperately between the game modes, the damage can be either totally absent in PvP or the now standard minor boost that other exotic traits have.
@fab5haus
Жыл бұрын
I hope they make more ranged exotics on hunter, more melee exotics on Titan, and more weapon-enhancing warlock exotics (chromatic fire for example)
@Menderino
Жыл бұрын
Starfire is not weapon-enhancing though, sanguine alchemy and mantle of battle harmony are
@fab5haus
Жыл бұрын
@@Menderino mb, I meant chromatic fire 😂
@uwize5897
Жыл бұрын
so the armor that takes your only exotic slot and ONLY benefits bows, doesnt work with most bows?
@blndspdr777
Жыл бұрын
Yo Aztec, you gotta do damage testing for cold comfort and apex predator sometime! Which rockets the best rocket?
@Pnutbjtime
Жыл бұрын
The only times I can see Oathkeepers being worth it are for Wishender specific builds or if they ever patch it to affect Leviathan's Breath. For every other bow it's just not worth it because class and exotic synergy is just better without it. Verglas just run a stasis build with whatever the best stasis exotic armor is that season. Monarque just run a void build with whatever the best void exotic armor is that season like Gyrfalcon's. Hierarchy and Ticuu's just run a solar build with whatever the best solar exotic armor is that season such as Ahamkara's nade spam. Trin Ghoul just run a normal arc punch build with assassin's or liar's. Cause of the catalyst your melee and nade kills will proc lightning rod which you can then just hipfire with no charge at all to the bow to clear nearby ads, or charge for further away ads. The damage buff to the initial arrow hit seems great on paper, but it's just not worth it. You do significantly more damage just by releasing a normal perfect draw arrow than you do holding the shot for 5 seconds for the buff before releasing. Even in Cross' previous video about Oathkeepers and Wishender. His dps check between non-Oathkeepers perfect draws and Oathkeepers perfect draws x5 he still did significantly more damage just spamming normal perfect draw shots. He was able to fire 8 arrows with normal perfect draws for 331k total damage. And full charging Oathkeepers was able to shoot 3 arrows in the same time frame for a total of 184k damage. The ONLY real benefit I can see to Oathkeepers in this situation is that it does SLIGHTLY increase draw speed so if Oathkeepers were used in both tests I just stated, Cross might've been able to shoot 9 arrows with normal perfect draws vs 3 arrows with full buff draws. If Oathkeepers was actually going to be worth it it would need at least one or multiple of the following in addition to what it already does: 1) A significant increase to draw speed, kind of like an intrinsic archer's tempo, or just a flat draw speed buff. 2) Buffs bows perk damage. If it buffed Monarque's poison, Hierachy's guidance ring, Trin Ghouls lightning rod, or explosive head perks on normal bows, those would all be worth it. 3) 100% hipfire and airborne accuracy. 4) The timer either needs to be longer or not have a cap. The initial perk of Oathkeeper's is being able to hold a perfect draw indefinitely. The 2nd perk is a damage buff when perfectly drawn. The problem is that they counteract. "Yea you can hold the shot indefinitely, but you're not gonna get a damage buff if you take longer than 6 seconds to shoot." Make it so it ramps up the longer it's held, but also so that it doesn't go away when max buffed. If a combination, or all of these changes get put through then I could see the benefit of using it over a subclass specific exotic armor piece. But sadly these changes will never happen because while it would make it more viable in PvE, it would make it busted in PvP, and unfortunately instead of balancing 2 separate game modes it's all balanced for 1 game mode. I want Oathkeepers to be worth it, and I tested a lot myself to try to find a viable build but it just always came up short. The damage buff just isn't worth it.
@stefaniorcic7141
Жыл бұрын
Ticuus apply scorch on hipfire if u use the fragment for more scorches.Last season i shooted some treshers and they start glowing orange.Same for enemies i was able to make firesprites.But without the fragment..nothing.
@ctrllif3
Жыл бұрын
cross, how do you feel overall about this season and all ff the changes (after your testing)
@thatairsofter7810
Жыл бұрын
Gerfalcans is way better for La Monarch having volatile round on tap, and the poison spreads it so easily that makes Everything expodes
@tinystar3010
Жыл бұрын
As someone who was already using oathkeepers a couple seasons before this "buff" I honestly find it useless. In most situations, in the time it takes to hold for full damage I have enough time to fully draw and shoot another shot. So thats the same exact damage total, and if its something with a usable damage perk like monarque, you get that perk twice in taking two shots vs using and waiting on the "buff" damage perk. Bows already play slow with draw speed, now double that with holding for damage, its not worth it. However, it is still perfectly fine using oathkeepers to guarantee you get your bow perks off.
@Criiies
Жыл бұрын
I still dont get the point in oathkeepers. I want to like them, but i always feel like id be doing more by just firing normally rather than awkwardly charging.
@trevor0078
Жыл бұрын
Also i mean look at wish ender and oathkeepers. Looks wise they go perfect with each other and their perks have the best synergy. Also the cartographer ornament set pairs well oathkeepers. Hell the lore for both exotics r about the awoken. So I’m pretty sure that wish ender, oathkeepers and the cartographer were quite literally made for each other.
@JEDNEYTV
Жыл бұрын
I been running crafted tyranny of heaven with dragonfly and incandescent, can still dump 50k arrows at fulk charge, exotic bows seem like a waste currently, hopefully this is unintentional
@AaronCollom
Жыл бұрын
would think there is some synergy for heirarchy and the faster draw times for more dps hip firing it through ring
@maliquebrinkley5269
Жыл бұрын
Dang, I love the bows so it would have been nice to see some extra love on the effects especially with Le Monarch
@Hughes12
Жыл бұрын
I had so much hope when I read the update Oathkeepers was getting, but its just not there still, If they come out and talk about Leviathans then maybe something will change
@CorbinAaron
Жыл бұрын
sad to see how a reworked has next to no synergy or crazy potential, yet things like say melee exotics extend to glaives not sure if swords are included either but that’s honestly so sad, the whole point of the exotic plain and simple - to increase damage from arrow/arrows follow after perfect draw with adamantine brace , nope just another dust collected for me xD
@lefrostyfed
Жыл бұрын
Wish it worked with Leviathans, but thanks for the info just the same.
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