This video explained very clearly why there is such a huge difference between P-Celtic and Q-Celtic. It also makes Celtic languages all the more interesting.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you, Frank.
@servantofChristMichael
Күн бұрын
I just wanted to say, a native English speaker who has managed to reach a B2-C1 level in "Serbo-Croatian", who is also of a mix of Celtic, Slavic and Sephardi Spanish ancestry, I really appreciate your videos, Ben. I particularly find what you said about the Slavic languages to be accurate and something I have personally experienced, for example, despite only having learned a few phrases in Polish, I am often surprised by how much I can understand of the written language and am pretty sure that if I spoke with a Native Polish speaker, as long as they spoke very slowly and clearly with hand gesticulations, we could probably establish a fair degree of mutual intelligibility between one another. I was also amazed at the universal intelligibility of "inter-Slavic" / "Međuslovenski".
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you, it does make learning at least 1 Slavic Language appealing to know you get access into others.
@servantofChristMichael
Күн бұрын
@@BenLlywelynand Serbo-Croatian of course is 4 for the price of one, depending on one's politics, plus 60% off on North Macedonian
@aleksandarnikolic2743
Күн бұрын
@@servantofChristMichaelDobro opažanje u vezi Srpsko Hrvatskog jezika. Poljski je veoma sličan Srpskom jeziku.👍
@stephensmith1118
Күн бұрын
remind me never to play you at scrabble.... you have access to all the higher point letters.... divertete
@davidmandic3417
19 сағат бұрын
Slavic languages aren't mutually intelligible when spoken, apart from (some) neighbouring languages, or at a very basic level... but it's easier to understand written language. Especially for native speakers, who are familiar with dialects and older forms of their own language etc.
@willhovell9019
Күн бұрын
Very interesting explanations. The development of English with the influence of the Norse and Norman French is equally complex and fascinating. Dioch
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Yn wir. It is so. Thanks.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Croeso.
@marclepihiff2339
Күн бұрын
I'm Breton, I speak Breton and a little bit Cornish. Your video is very interesting, thank you !
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Trugarez mat!
@marclepihiff2339
Күн бұрын
Mann 'bet !😊
@dustinDraig
Күн бұрын
Me ivez. Kerneveureg a zo tost-tre da brezhoneg met disheñveloc'h eo ar c'hembraeg.
@agenda697
4 сағат бұрын
I have a question, in your opinion would breton close to the gaul language ?
@n8nate
Күн бұрын
Fantastic video Ben. I've learnt a lot from this. 👍🏽👍🏽
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Great to help expand horizons. Thank you.
@mr_jm9777
Күн бұрын
great videos, keep up the work man👍
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you Mr.
@timflatus
22 сағат бұрын
Absolutely. Learning Cornish has given me quite a lot of insight into Welsh and Breton, but Irish is a whole different world. Differences in orthography don't help, but even then you have massive sound changes Fionn = Gwynn and Seabhac = Hebog for example. It's hard to believe these words are cognates. Both languages have initial mutation but the rules are very different with just enough similarities to make it really confusing.
@jongellert6971
Күн бұрын
Thank you very much for this. It's incredibly fascinating.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you for spending the time to watch it!
@xenocrates2559
Күн бұрын
Very informative and clearly presented. Thanks.
@peter_oso
Күн бұрын
Very informative and clear, thanks
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Welcome, Peter.
@taivo55
Күн бұрын
Excellent video !!!
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you!
@mihaiburloiu367
Күн бұрын
Enjoyable videos, Ben! Thanks!
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you very much.
@ALEIJADINHOPATRIOTA
Күн бұрын
Ben is very good informated and I wonder how celtic languages have developed their different grammars. So a great video! THANK YOU MR.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Very nice indeed. Thank you for the support.
@nathanaelpereira5207
11 сағат бұрын
Very Clarifying. I appreciate it.
@64-Mat
18 сағат бұрын
NO on one point at least : Brittonic (your Brythonic) did not become separate incomprehensible languages until after about 1100. Authentic Cornish which survived to the early 18th century can be considered a fifth dialect of Breton up until the late Middle Ages when it and Breton began diverging. It all depends of course on what one considers a limit between language and dialect.
@morvil73
11 сағат бұрын
Breton and Cornish are close, but I wouldn’t call Cornish a fifth dialect of Breton. There are a number of sound changes an grammatical features that sets Cornish apart from all other Breton dialects. A very significant sound change is the coalescence of old short /o/ and /u/ as well as assibilation of old /d/ (and /t/ in some contexts). While there is some mutual comprehension between Breton and Cornish, it doesn’t really go beyond short simple and basic sentences that have to be pronounced slowly and clearly to be understood.
@leviathan5377
Күн бұрын
Awesome video! As an Irish speaker who's dabbled in a bit of Welsh, the langauges definitely still bear a stronger resemblance to one another than to other IE languages. It's possible to form sentences that are almost completely made up of cognates, though admittedly with a lot of cherry picking involved. Ex. CY: Collodd y ceffyl y ras a glanheuaist ei goes. GA: Chaill an capall an rása agus ghlanais a chos. EN: The horse lost the race and you cleaned his leg. Note the type of consonant mutation for leg are different in each langauge. 'Ghlanais' is a more archaic/dialectal form. Most speakers not from the south of Ireland would probably say 'ghlán tú.' The words for race are borrowed from English. CY: Bydd fy nheulu yma ddydd Llun. GA: Beidh mo theaghlach anseo Dé Luain. EN: My family will be here on Monday. Anseo and yma are not cognate to my knowledge but they do sound similar. The words for Monday are also Latin borrowings. Of course, most sentences don't bear much lexical resemblance with each other. CY: Wnaethon nhw weld faint o forfilod oedd yn y môr? GA: An bhfaca siad cé mhéad míolta móra a bhí san fharraige/sa mhuir? EN: Did they see how many whales were in the ocean? The only cognates in this sentence are morfil/míol mór, yn y/san, and môr/muir. The changes between the two languages do make them seem to have about 15% lexical similarity like you suggest. However, their word orders are still almost the same! I'm still learning Welsh so apologies if I made any mistakes! Diolch yn fawr am y fideo 'ma! Go raibh mìle as an físeán seo!
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you for your hardwork. Yes, I agree with you on the structure and should have noted that despite the gulf between the syntax is almost identical which helps a lot.
@Karl_with_a_K
18 сағат бұрын
Amazing that Ireland and Wales are so close geographically, yet the native languages diverged to such an extent and so long ago. Yet Scots-Gaelic and Gaeilge are very similar. I think Everyone in Britain should learn a few words of Welsh, a couple of sentences at least, it is a native language after all . Maith thú Ben, is breá liom é.
@Eden.mindrenewal
22 сағат бұрын
The butter shot put a smile on my face on a crappy day ❤😊🙏
@cargumdeu
Күн бұрын
One of your best. I very much admire what you do.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Very kind. May ask what made it so good for you?
@cargumdeu
Күн бұрын
@@BenLlywelyn Certainly. I was on my 3rd G&T and I was enjoying some weed. I'd just watched an Unherd interview with a remarkable Dutch psychologist on the subject of 'Mass Formation Psychosis'. And pretty much anything you do is quality, if you dont mind me saying. You are part of my entertainment schedule whether you like it or not!
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you. Maybe we'll have a gin & tonic one day.
@cargumdeu
Күн бұрын
Youre a damn good chap and I both learn a lot and am entertained by your very professional videos. My answer may appear trite but if we ever meet the G&T will be on me and it'll have to be a Hendricks or a Plymouth none of your cheap stuff.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Sounds good.
@kevingriffin1376
Күн бұрын
Thanks Ben! (btw, It looks like KZitem deleted my earlier comment (probably due to it having a link to Google translate)). What I didn't note before is that before I became literate in Irish, I not only assumed Gaelic and Welsh were very similar languages--I also assumed they were lightweight patois. This is what I needed to believe in order to believe the popular history of Celtic language in Britain and Ireland (I believe was primarily based on the Book of Invasions). It's incredible that I was that ignorant considering I grew up in some of the most Irish communities in the world outside of Ireland (I can recall visiting my Irish speaking great grandparents)! Anyhow, my link to Google translate contains this sentence in Hiberno-English using core vocabulary, "My cow does be eating grass and drinking water." Toggling the translation between the available Celtic languages, Irish, Scottish Gaelic, and Welsh is rather eye opening.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
You are welcome Kevin. The video is doing well so far, so your comment gave me a good idea. Thanks.
@boxsterman77
23 сағат бұрын
Who can be blamed for thinking these languages, all Celtic, should be similar if they exist in such close proximity as well?
@MikePhilbin1966
Күн бұрын
I love your insistence on CE and BCE... :)
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Thank you, Mike.
@rckoala8838
4 сағат бұрын
The professor who taught both Welsh and Scots Gaelic at my university said once that they were as similar to each other as English and Greek.
@danoloideain4155
13 сағат бұрын
I'm fascinated by the ways Britons & the Gaels came up with vastly different strategies for employing the Latin letters to express the sounds & lexical units of their languages. Very different to the wsys the Germanics did so also, & all those within the same historical period. I'm fluent in Irish, have taught myself to read Welsh pretty well with the help of a dictionary, but interestingly I can understand say 11th c. Welsh much more easily than Irish of the same period. Also I'm interested in how orthography doesn't only follow the spoken language but influences its evolution too, as speakers visualize the spellings as they become more literate. Irish btw akso has much Latin influence but unlike Cymraeg it's mainly thru the church as opposed to things pertinent to the living of daily life, but the monasteries had a great effect on the structure & culture of Irish communities in the middle ages. So perhaps another stream but not quite as strong as the direct Roman & the Norman French ones? Also I doubt very much even well before the era of literate evidence if Goidelic & Brythonic dialects would have been mutually intelligible, except maybe in some cases when Irish colonized the north & west of Britain, could there have been sort of bridge dialects on the ground in those cases? Diolch yn fawr Ben, bainim an-sult as d'fhiseáin 🏴🇮🇪
@philandrews2860
23 сағат бұрын
Interesting and informative. This also makes one wonder if the Old Irish Gaelic spoken 2000 years ago was at all mutually intelligible with Gaulish and Briton of that time period, since they would have been much closer to their common proto-Celtic ancestor than they are now, with less influence of Latin on the Gaulish and Briton languages. But there is probably no historical record of such a comparison, at least not one that I'm aware of. They had also most likely already acquired their P vs Q differences by then, which would have made it harder for them to understand each other, even at that point. I heard a while ago that even in the ancient Italic language family, there were similar splits in different dialects with different P vs Q consonants, and of course many scholars think that the Italic and Celtic families share a common ancestor (Proto-Italo-Celtic) after the other Centum languages split off from their common PIE ancestry. I believe the latest estimate for that proposed Italic-Celtic family split is around 2000-1500 BCE.
@davidmandic3417
18 сағат бұрын
They appear to have been similar in some way, based (for example) on how Romans transcribed various personal and place names from Ireland, Britain, Gaul... and how the Irish wrote their names in the ogham alphabet. However, some fairly complex changes affected both Irish and Brythonic in the 5th and 6th centuries, which increased the differences a lot. There was probably some mutual intelligibility between them before that.
@lugo_9969
9 сағат бұрын
Hi Ben, polyglot from ireland here. My opinion is that Breton has very many germanic cognates. In other words, the Saxon invasion 'linguistically got' the celts before the celts scarpered off to britanny .?circa 500 ad. Dagmad = good day....dag....saxon word. It is unlikely that those germanic words travelled landward from the netherlands through calais , paris and down into brittany. However we must also keep an open mind on viking normandy getting words into breton....circa 900 ad. Irish and breton have a very modest linguistic crossover or mutual cognates....maybe only 20 % of words. However their grammar are clearly related.
@yuribliman8999
Күн бұрын
Thank you Ben for another fascinating episode. Before I watched your previous video I was sure Irish was pretty similar to Welsh. I'd like to share my experience with Slavic languages. I've been exposed to most Slavic languages, Russian and Ukrainian are my native languages. The only language that is 99% intelligible to me is Belarusian. Unfortunately not many Belarusians speak Belarasin in their day-to-day life. Almost all Berussians are native Russian speakers. Ukrainian and Belarusian are probably 90-95% mutually intelligible. I read Polish quite well but I have some difficulties with spoken Polish. Poles usually understand Ukrainian better than Ukrainians understand Polish because of the specific Polish pronunciation. Ukrainian and Polish are very close languages, closer than Russian and Ukrainian. Slavic languages share a lot of common vocabulary. Also, some words that sound similar and come from the same old Slavic words have different meanings, which could cause a bit of confusion. If one's mother tongue is one of the Slavic languages he/she probably will easily pick up another Slavic language, that won't happen overnight and pronunciation could be the biggest problem.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Ласкаво просимо. Thank you for your Slavic perspective.
@yuribliman8999
Күн бұрын
@@BenLlywelyn Е Та нема за шо. Вам дякую. Maybe it would be interesting to you. There 3 standard ways to say you're welcome in Ukranian 1. Будь ласка - formal, means please, or would you be so kind of 2. Нема за що - informal -- it's nothing or don't mention it 3. Прошу - formal/informal mostly in the Western dialects of Ukrainian. Also means please but like the German 'bitte' I ask for. A Russian-speaking person will understand only the second phrase. A Belarussian-speaking person will understand the phrases N.1 and N.2. The second and the third phases sound very similar in Polish. The word прошу/prosze is present in all these languages, but in both Russian and Belorusin it's grammatically incorrect to use it in this context.
@AlltNorrOmAleArNorrland
Күн бұрын
Fascinating!!!!
@c-5541
Күн бұрын
Thanks!
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Each time I see generosity it makes my day. Thank you very much. MULTUMESC.
@SionTJobbins
Күн бұрын
Da iawn Ben, esboniad da. Good explaination. It's also complicated in that the Welsh and Irish orthography are very different, so, even cognate words can be difficult for Welsh speakers to see. It's interesting to think had the Roman Empire existed for another 50 or 100 years how different Welsh would have been. When one sees the Latin words in Welsh they are for everyday objects which is a sure sign of language death, I'm guessing another 100 years and Welsh would have been a Romance language with a strong Celtic substratum. I think the difference between Welsh, Cornish and Breton may have happened a little later, about 900CE is usually quoted as the beginning of Welsh as a distinct language, but, maybe that's what I was taught at school in the 1980s and also there's so little written evidence from the time that it's difficult to say, and naturally any written evidence would tend to be of a more conservative (thought of as prestigious) version of the language. But very interesting and clear video - diolch i ti.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Siôn. Ydy, mae'n ddiddorol iawn fod ni Cymry wedi cael ein troi i mewn i Latins fel Ffrainc aa Sbaen petai'r Ymherodraeth wedi cadw am ganrif arall. Just in the nick of time, fel maen nhw'n dweud! Welsh has been remarkably lucky a few times in its history. Rome, Bible, No English revolution, etc.
@betlamed
Күн бұрын
As a German native speaker, I always feel like I should understand Dutch or - maybe even worse - Swyzerdütsch. But when I actually hear it, I get next to nothing. Maybe a word or two every other sentence. Seems a similar scenario over here!
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
With a short introduction to Dutch grammar and the basic words, a German speaker will get a lot!
@agatheherrou7333
6 сағат бұрын
The relationship between Goidelic and Brythonic languages would be closer to that between Baltic and Slavic languages, which split around the same era. You can clearly see similarities between the two, but nowhere near enough to enable intercomprehension.
@muylae
Күн бұрын
how would that translate to the continental celts ? how different would their language be ? if you look at the celts from ireland and the celts that ended up in turkey, how different would their language be ?
@belstar1128
Күн бұрын
from the few sources we have they were radically different
@aleksandarnikolic2743
Күн бұрын
Very good👍. See on internet book of professor Ranka Kuić(Crveno i belo-Srpko keltske paralele)- Red and white ,Serbian Celtic parallels. Interesting book about connection between Serbian and Celtic language...
@carlosaradas5926
Күн бұрын
Le reto al comentarista de este vídeo que me diga, por favor, qué influencias del árabe tiene el texto que estoy escribiendo que lo hagan tan diferente del italiano. Si lo leyese en voz alta, tampoco, porque el castellano no suena a árabe en absoluto, sino que tiene una fonética similar al vasco. No estoy haciendo ningún esfuerzo artificial de selección léxica para expresar lo que expongo. La principal influencia sobre el español que lo distingue del italiano es el substrato prerromano, no la influencia del árabe, que fue una lengua vecina del castellano arcaico, no un superestrato del mismo. El árabe sí fue superestrato de otra lengua romance hablada en esa época en la península en territorio musulmán: el mozárabe, pero este no es el tronco central del que deriva el español actual, que nació al norte del dominio musulmán. Hablamos, es cierto, con algunos vocablos prestados de esa lengua semítica vecina que hablaba una gente que trajo muchas innovaciones a Iberia, pero no son en absoluto tan frecuentes en la conversación normal como para que interfieran de manera especial en la mutua inteligibilidad entre el italiano y español, ni estas representan el factor más importante que diferencia estas dos lenguas. Una abuelita italiana y una abuelita española o portuguesa sin destreza lingüística o conocimiento alguno se pueden entender entre sí mucho mejor de lo que lo harían ninguna de los dos con otra abuelita francesa o rumana, con o sin préstamos del árabe. No sé, es que por mucho que me esfuerce, todavía no consigo introducir una palabra árabe en mi razonamiento para que al menos haya una excepción en lo que digo. A no ser que, por algún motivo extraño, me entre una urgencia terrible para comerme una berenjena con aceite y azúcar y tomar una bebida alcohólica al lado de la alberca (this last word I never use) o algo similar. Please note that aubergine, sugar and alcohol are Arabic loans in English, and in Italian too. Fue un poco artificial este salto contextual arabizante, ¿no? Lo que no es artificial es que si sigo hablando y fuera de ciertos ámbitos léxicos, los préstamos del árabe estarían ausentes en mi discurso casi por completo. Este texto, le aseguro que cualquier italiano lo lee y comprende casi a la perfección y encuentra en él cognados en su lengua. Lo que acaba de decir usted equivaldría a declarar que el irlandés y el galés serían más parecidos si no fuese por la influencia del latín en este último: una soberana tontería.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Si. La principal influencia prerromana del español es de un sustrato similar al vasco. Pero el árabe cambió su dirección.
@matteo-ciaramitaro
12 сағат бұрын
Sono d'accordo. L'influenza dell'arabo sullo spagnolo è supravvaluata. Per le lingue nordgermaniche, lo stesso. Non penso che lui sappia molto di linguistica...
@carlosaradas5926
7 сағат бұрын
@@BenLlywelyn Sinceramente, no lo veo. El español no miró hacia la Mecca. Miró hacia Roma, miró hacia Francia, miró hacia Europa. También lo hace ahora y hacia América, y le digo lo que lo está cambiando y qué dirección marca la aguja de su brújula 🧭 (palabra árabe, por cierto): los calcos semánticos del inglés, mucho y muy rápido. Sí es cierto que utilizamos préstamos del árabe en nuestro vocabulario cotidiano en un porcentaje ligeramente mayor al de otras lenguas de nuestro entorno, como es natural resultado de nuestra historia, pero se queda ahí, en influencia léxica. Ni fonética, ni morfológica, ni sintáctica. Si usted hace un análisis del lenguaje utilizado un día al "azar" (palabra árabe, pero también lo es "hazard" en inglés) en un periódico, el número de palabras árabes estaría entre el uno y el dos por ciento. Yo tuve una conversación con un licenciado en Cambridge inglés, lingüista, que se pensaba que los artículos definidos del español (el, la, lo) venían del árabe y no de los demostrativos del latín... Le sonaban campanas y no sabía dónde. Había escuchado sobre la frecuencia y significado original de los términos comenzados en "al-", así que le tuve que explicar que palabras tipo "alcalde" son ahora un "blending" y que no las entendemos como "artículo + nombre". Incluso la mayoría de los préstamos del árabe que tenemos están tan cambiados que un marroquí y un argelino no los reconocen. Se lo digo porque me ha pasado varias veces en mis clases de castellano: les menciono que cierta palabra o cierta otra son de origen árabe y les lleva bastante tiempo pensar en cuál es la palabra original. Me ocurrió, por ejemplo, con "barrio", que significa otra cosa distinta a "zona en una ciudad". En fin, que como dice la persona que comentó en italiano, "la influenza dell'arabo sullo Spagnolo e supravvaluata".
@carlosaradas5926
7 сағат бұрын
@@matteo-ciaramitaro Certo.
@paganwarriors5340
Күн бұрын
More accurate to say celtic broke up in Early Iron age rather than late Bronze age
@jessegomes6366
3 сағат бұрын
Irish and scots gaelic AND welsh still all sound extremely similar to eachother. Just like Italian to Spanish or Portuguese.
@mrwelshmun
Күн бұрын
An interesting thing about the Irish connection is that on Ancestry DNA the Breton people are classified as genetically more similar to Irish than Cornish or Welsh even though their language is more similar to Cornish and Welsh
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Several reasons could be for this.
@arpadtatar5052
20 сағат бұрын
From the XVIII. century, the Romanians took over many-many French words. That's how they rejuvenated their language.
@arpadtatar5052
20 сағат бұрын
Of coruse, they took over also Italian and German words too.
@TreforTreforgan
7 сағат бұрын
Whatever books people are reading to gain their information about Celtic languages i feel it would be remiss, if not a bit silly, to look passed the works of Andrew Koch and Barry Cunliffe. They are the most researched works in the present age and present fascinating theories therein. Cunliffe’s theory is that Celtic Languages developed in the British Isles primarily. The Irish brought to mainland Britain the knowledge of turning ore to metal and that a Celtic lingua franca emerged to facilitate this trade. Of course this language was based on PIE. Consider the etymology of the word ‘generate’ coming from PIE ‘gene’; to give birth to. We have almost the exact same word in modern Welsh usage having the exact same meaning, ‘geni’. There are many such examples in Welsh if we go looking for them. The likelihood is that Celtic languages formed here then moved outwards into Europe and were hugely influential on other European languages from the beginning of the Bronze Age. Latin being no exception.
@TreforTreforgan
6 сағат бұрын
Addendum: the word Goidelic is actually a Brythonic term for the Irish. Its meaning is given as ‘wild man’ or some such. Although i have no formal qualifications in linguistics (nor anything else for that matter) i am however a first language Welsh speaker and had a father from Ireland who was bilingual Irish and English, and i feel i can dispute the definition we have become used to. The Welsh Gwyddel does not suggest gwyllt/wild to me. Rather the element Gwydd- suggests knowing or knowledge. This is backed up in theory by PIE research. So knowing as we do now that the Irish brought knowledge of smelting to the Brythonic peoples i think someone should suggest an update of the origin of the term Gwyddel.
@BenLlywelyn
6 сағат бұрын
True.
@TreforTreforgan
6 сағат бұрын
@@BenLlywelyn cheers👍
@TreforTreforgan
6 сағат бұрын
There are words in both Welsh and Irish that bear uncanny resemblances to Semitic languages also. No surprise being as the Phoenicians traded extensively with the souther Britons for well over a thousand years
@nigelwiseman8644
17 сағат бұрын
nice
@jboss1073
Күн бұрын
A more appropriate division of the Celtic languages based on shared features would be: Brythonic, Gaelic, Ancient Celtic (encompassing Gaulish, Celtiberian, Gallaecian, Galatian, and maybe Lusitanian). Celtic and Germanic were mutually intelligible for 2,000 years, most of the time they existed. 32% of Celtic PIE roots and 22% of Germanic PIE roots are shared only among Celtic and Germanic. For comparison, only 8% of Celtic PIE roots are shared with Italic, which makes up only 6% of Italic PIE roots. Source: Celto-Germanic. Later Prehistory and Post-Proto-Indo-European vocabulary in the North and West. John Koch. Maybe do a video on Celto-Germanic and how much they share and what that means for them? They share PIE roots in specific cultural semantic groups.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
I am of the opinion it was Italo-Celtic, and that Germanic was closer to Baltic (at least earlier on before shifts).
@jboss1073
Күн бұрын
@@BenLlywelyn "[...] a close relationship between Celtic and Italic is widely recognized. Going back to August Schleicher (1861/1862), many linguists have argued for Italo-Celtic as a primary subgrouping (i.e. a node on the family tree) of Indo-European.42 On the other hand, Watkins (1966) argued strongly against an Italo-Celtic proto-language, countered by Cowgill (1970). More recently Mallory and Adams (2006, 78) accept Indo-Iranian and Balto-Slavic as Post-Proto-Indo-European unified languages, but favour treating Italo-Celtic as a contact phenomenon. Similarly, Clackson and Horrocks conclude: ‘Latin shares more features with Celtic than any other IE language branch outside Italy. The links to Celtic do not, however, seem sufficiently close to allow us to reconstruct an “Italo-Celtic” proto-language…’ (2007, 32-4) We may be coming close to the proverbial ‘distinction without a difference’ in attempting to decide whether the evidence for Italo-Celtic is better explained as Post-Proto-Indo-European unity or intense contact between mutually intelligible dialects before the sound laws of Pre-Italic and Pre-Celtic had operated. For most purposes, recognizing that Pre-Italic and Pre-Celtic were close sisters at a very early stage will suffice. However, a general reluctance to accept common nodes between Proto-Indo-European and the ten branches presents challenges in any attempt to align the linguistic evidence with that for archaeological cultures and genetic populations." Proto-Italic is famously difficult to reconstruct, with few experts agreeing on the most important intermediary stages; there is really only Latin to help in that reconstruction, which makes it an impossible task. Hence, trying to connect Celtic, or any other language, with a ghost such as Proto-Italic, is not really saying much. I think Italo-Celtic proponents should first focus on reconstructing Proto-Italic in a way that more experts can agree on. Where do you think is the Proto-Italic homeland? And where do you think it had contact with Proto-Celtic? I will agree, however, that the Proto-Celts and the Proto-Italics had the same genetics, namely Iron Age Iberian (30-35% Yamnaya). But Etrucans and Rhaetians shared the same genetics and spoke non-Indo-European languages. Pannonians in the East also had the same genetics and again spoke completely different languages.
@davidmandic3417
18 сағат бұрын
@@jboss1073 I'd say it's impossible to know whether there was a Proto-Italo-Celtic or not. Apart from Latin, old Italic and Celtic languages are far from being well attested, there are some other possibly closely related languages we know very little about (for example, Venetic and Lusitanian), and there were probably some other similar languages that are completely unknown to us. So it's hard to say. If there was such a proto-language, it might have been spoken somewhere in central Europe, but who knows. On the other hand, looking at Old Irish and Latin, I think there are some fairly obvious similarities between them, which probably aren't the result of later contacts. However, that isn't surprising really, since there must have been a Late PIE dialect continuum, and both Celtic and Italic were in more or less the same part of that continuum. Germanic, however, appears quite different from Celtic, for example the verb morphology is fairly different etc. Germanic might be closer to Balto-Slavic.
@jboss1073
17 сағат бұрын
@@davidmandic3417 Nevertheless, Celtic and Germanic branches share more PIE cognates with each other than any other pair of branches and much more than would be expected. But the die-hards keep pressing on that Italo-Celtic button because they just want it to be true in the fact of all contrary evidence.
@resourcedragon
Күн бұрын
It seems to me that there are arguments for regarding the Brythonic and Goidelic languages as separate language groups in the way that (say) the Romance and Germanic languages are separate. They may not be quite as different as the Romance and Germanic groups but they're different enough that they shouldn't be grouped together.
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Irish Celtic and British Celtic are almost as far apart as Baltic and Slavic. So you may be right.
@davidmandic3417
18 сағат бұрын
No, I don't think so... if you look at Old Irish and Middle Welsh (there isn't much of Old Welsh left to us) you can see obvious similarities. The difference between Romance and Germanic is way more considerable, and much older too.
@christopherellis2663
Күн бұрын
This shows a profoundly dysfunctional education system if this distinction has not been made. It's almost as uncanny as not knowing about the various Romance tongues in the Balkans ( four). Nowadays, it's an inability to use the Internet. 😢
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
The way Celtic Languages are classified reflect a 19th century scan of the world. We have learned a lot since then about language and our own lands.
@idiosyncraticmushroom3030
Күн бұрын
I think that it's also worth noting that, between Brythonic and Goidelic, there is a very big difference in the alphabets used, since the Goidelic languages have such intense mutations.
@michaelhalsall5684
Күн бұрын
I've always wondered why their was so much difference between the spelling of Welsh and Irish perhaps that explains it. Regarding spelling the two revived Celtic languages, (Goidelic) and Cornish (Brythonic) used spelling based on English spelling conventions. Breton (Brythonic) has a seperate spelling system😊
@OutsidersRo
Күн бұрын
❤👍👍👍
@grovergrandle3018
Күн бұрын
I wonder if maybe the difference between welsh and goidelic is like the difference between baltic and slavic
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Fascinating idea.
@davidmandic3417
18 сағат бұрын
I think the differences between Baltic and Slavic are much more considerable, especially in their verb systems where the differences seem to be very old. The medieval forms of Irish and Welsh, however, have many things in common. The most important differences are in pronunciation (the evolution of sounds) and in the fact that Welsh had lost its case system before the earliest written records (but even that seems to have happened as late as the Late Antiquity).
@AlltNorrOmAleArNorrland
Күн бұрын
Wait… are you Welsh or Romanian? Or maybe both?
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
What if I were Korean?
@sterlingdafydd5834
Күн бұрын
Cyfarchion oddi wrth Houston…mae’r awyr yn ffresh ac yn braf
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
Cyfarchion llu! Tywydd gwell yno nac yma dw i'n siŵr.
@robtbarton9
5 сағат бұрын
Good God. Thought it was meant to discuss Celtic Languages but it seems to bang on about everything but. Think I'll get out now and stop wasting time with this before the discussion of Klingon and the languages of Middle Earth. Here is a hint. If you are half way through a video and have not even started to discuss the subject in the title, change the name of the video.
@janetcox4873
23 сағат бұрын
The hands, .....stop, .....can't watch.
@Thebattler86
Күн бұрын
Unfounded bulls crap. The Irish came from Scythia. The Britons and Gauls came from Troy. Nothing to do with eachother.
@petertromans5599
Күн бұрын
Cachu ychen!
@Thebattler86
21 сағат бұрын
@@petertromans5599 YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO LOOK AT THE FACTS SO YOU BELIEVE AN AMERICAN WHO KNOWS NOTHING. LOOK UP WILSON AND BLACKETT
@morvil73
11 сағат бұрын
😂🤣😂🤣😂
@bantorio6525
Күн бұрын
... I couldn't care less ... !!! ... who cares ... ???
@BenLlywelyn
Күн бұрын
You cared enough to watch, thank you.
@paulohagan3309
19 сағат бұрын
Who cares about linguistics and history? Leaving other considerations aside, the number of videos on either of these subjects on KZitem suggests that there are a considerable number of people interested in both subjects.
Пікірлер: 116