Is life a runner? We keep moving forward in time, never able to turn back the clocks of time. Woah...
@ExploreImagineDefineCreate
5 жыл бұрын
Avoiding the various obstacles it throws at you But this runner isn't endless Life is the hardest runner there is How far can you go? What will you do in that time? You decide
@patchpen5613
8 жыл бұрын
If you came to the comments to try and help him define the genre, or to tell him he did it wrong, you missed the point.
@Pablo360able
7 жыл бұрын
He literally asks us to help him define the genre at the end of the video
@ExploreImagineDefineCreate
5 жыл бұрын
@@Pablo360able I thinks it's more of "help others out by giving your interpretation of what you believe the runner genre is and others' may find it useful in constructing their own understanding of it by piecing together others' view points." Other people are just like, nah fam, runners are absolutely most definitely this and that.
@batyaggy325
2 жыл бұрын
@@Pablo360able Didn’t really ask him to help him define. Just to give ur opinion.
@Yamartim
8 жыл бұрын
if he does a what's with RPGs the video will be two hours long
@shadowwarior9000
8 жыл бұрын
I feel as though runners are defined by the player character being in a nonstop movement whilst reacting to obstacles rather than timed reaction or a lack of controlled movement. In a game like audiosurf there is a player character and this player character is always moving forward and the player has the ability to move left and right. I think this is what separates a game like audiosurf from a game like guitar hero when determining which games are and are not runners. In guitar hero there isn't really a player character and there isn't really a space for which a player character could move in. Although this difference is mainly visual given that you could refram guitar hero to be more like audiosurf and other runners I think this difference has a massive effect on how the player think of the game and how they react during gameplay.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Devil's Advocate Question: If you were to replace the glowing light at the bottom of Guitar Hero with a little character, or even just a face of a character, would that make it a Runner in your eyes? More over, do you think it would have a legitimate effect on players' mindsets, enough to alter how they think of the game and/or react while playing?
@shadowwarior9000
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games I don't think replacing the light at the bottom of the screen with a character would change guitar hero into a runner nor do I think the player would react much differently if the main draw behind the game is still rhythm and music. However in my opinion if you were to change the light to a character as well as change the camera to be behind this character and set the game in a more tangible environment I do think that would be more like a runner game. The reason for this being that the way the camera is setup in guitar hero now presents the game's challenge as a pattern that can be memorised and mastered ware as in runner games the camera and layout are set in a way that you don't see much ahead of the player's avatar making the level design much more surprising to first time players and harder to memorise (this is assuming we're not talking about a runner game with randomly generated obstacles) . I think the difference in perspective would probably change the way the player reacts to the game quite drastically. Giving the idea that the player is moving across a landscape and reacting to the obstacles within it whilst staying in rhythm rather than having notes thrown at them whilst being stationary.
@benzur3503
7 жыл бұрын
Your philsophical process of trying to discern elements, comparing and contrasting, and finally admitting the messiness of categorizing anything made me smile. I'm sure Wittingstein would have been proud.
@jekrixlokan4507
8 жыл бұрын
Heh, great episode. I never really thought of the Runner genre before. Like, I know how some games break the meaning of genres, have exceptions, or possibly even create new ones. But this was rather interesting to me since Runner can be exponentially broad, and even when some games they aren't generally thought of to be a runner, they could technically be put in to that genre.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
This dude gets it. Making "What's With [Genre]?" have been some of my favorite episodes (Stealth and Roguelikes), but they really start to fall apart when I try to set a strict definition of what qualifies as that genre. This video's all about that.
@ItsKingNando
8 жыл бұрын
The writing in this is genius, great video man :)
@TrulySilentLie
8 жыл бұрын
I think the argument in itself is kind of... lacking, in that it generally only takes a somewhat generalized viewpoint of the mechanics behind the games, and try to establish whether they are part of the runner genre or not. Genre by definition is actually really hard to pin down since it boils down to some sort of general consensus, as such most parts of what makes up a game has to be considered to see what underlying aspects a game can have to be part of a bigger concept such as a genre. As such, the aesthetic of a runner game I think is also important to define if a game is a runner or not. Sure, if one looks at FNAF and Star Fox mechanically, there are plenty of similarities with other runner games. But they have a different aesthetic to them, not to mention other mechanics that in their cases are more influential in what kind of genre people label them as. With Star Fox in particular, the game can be seen as an on-rails space shooter, and the runner genre could be seen as a specific kind of on-rails game. If you say a game is a certain genre and you have reasons you can present, then that shows how a genre can be used and in some ways evolve to include more types of games. But rigidly stating how a genre should be used, or trying to boil down a genre definition to a narrow and general ruleset in the end isn't really getting at the point. Genres is essentially subjective in the end, with some logical thoughts tying it together. That's just my two cents on the matter, something I've been thinking about ever since I started studying videogames, always felt videogame genres are weird since most are defined by gameplay mechanics (or even the camera angle).
@VikingSchism
6 жыл бұрын
TrulySilentLie to me, a genre should be a useful collection of titles that can help determine whether or not you might enjoy something - ie, if I enjoy Caves of Qud, then I should look into its genre to find similar games (for example, Cogmind). This is why I strongly advocate for the Roguelike/Roguelite divide - very few actually play the two genres for the same reasons, it isn't useful for anyone to include both in the same genre because ultimately someone who likes Isaac might not enjoy Cogmind, and someone who loves Caves of Qud might not care for Dead Cells. There's also the not insignificant issue of one significantly dwarfing the other in popularity, causing certain Roguelikes to languish, buried beneath countless 'Lites. However, I agree that genre comes from aesethetic and consensus, as much as it does from actual mechanics etc. It's the feeling of "I'll know it when I see it", which people tend to dismiss.
@RobertMatoRec
8 жыл бұрын
This has got to be my favorite episode from you. I've never heard someone break down the problem with game genres so well.
@Spiderboydk
8 жыл бұрын
Great episode. I like the genre discussion because the established genres are so arbitrary and need reformation.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Genre is a necessary but problematic concept.
@Spiderboydk
8 жыл бұрын
Exactly. We need some kind of classification, but the current one isn't very helpful.
@nachochips8090
8 жыл бұрын
"WHAT ABOUT BOP IT!? IS BOP IT A RUNNER!?!?"
@deldarel
7 жыл бұрын
Starfox is a rail shooter, which would still be a runner in your definition. My definition of a runner would be 'a platformer with forced progression in which you physically avoid obstacles coming your way' This would rule out rhythm games. While there are 'bomb buttons' you can simply avoid them by ignoring them, which isn't avoiding, it's ignoring. This also rules out fnaf because you're not avoiding physically, but this is just an aesthetic choice. I mean, who says it's you running, not the background flying by? But aesthetics is not a bad way to judge genres in any medium since you can't have a space opera that isn't futuristic or in space.
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say Aesthetics are a "Bad" way to judge genres in any medium, but I think that Games, moreso than other media, should have a stronger emphasis on their interactivity than their aesthetics. I go into more detail about this in my videos "The Game That Showed Me Games Can Be Art" and "What's With Stealth?" Thanks for watching.
@maiiau
6 жыл бұрын
maybe the true runner is the friends we made along the way
@Novacanoo
8 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say runner is a genre at all. I'd say 'timing' games could be a blanket term, with a divide between ones that you time to a rhythm (rhythm games) and ones that you time to visual cues (runners).
@clean-6291
8 жыл бұрын
"IS BOP IT A RUNNER?" had me in stitches
@tasoganedude
8 жыл бұрын
Like you said, genres are meant to label games according to what people might enjoy. I'd say that genres are used to categorise game aesthetics according to their mechanics. Ronnie Oni Edwards talked about genres in his video on Survival Horror. In my opinion, a Runner game is giving the aesthetic of traversing through an open environment without stopping at high speeds. The adrenaline rush, exploring the path ahead, ready to evade obstacles as they come. Rhythmic games are more towards following the beat of the music. The fun of syncing/playing along the melody. Also, Extra Credits talked about types of play; "Plan, Practice, Improvise". Most Runners I know is Improvise type gameplay, while Rhythmic is Practice type gameplay.
@ruthlesssavagehatred6428
8 жыл бұрын
Great video as always! Genres are a hard thing to discuss but the point is they are descriptors to define games. You could say Guitar Hero is a runner but it would make more sense to call it a music game.
@Rakned
8 жыл бұрын
I would say a runner game is a game where you control an avatar which progresses at a constant or increasing rate independent of player inputs, and must navigate that avatar around or through various obstacles in order to proceed.
@itsMapleLeaf
8 жыл бұрын
Runners definitely have a focus on simplicity. They're almost always one-button controls and moving with few exception. Adding that to the definition is a decent way to rule out some games
@squid24736
8 жыл бұрын
we've gone too deep
@dogsneezer259
8 жыл бұрын
there is just something about your videos that make me wanna see more :)
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
That's funny, there's just something about my videos that make me wanna make more. Thanks for watching.
@dogsneezer259
8 жыл бұрын
Thanks for makeing these videos
@BenMakesGames
7 жыл бұрын
I just watched a bunch of your videos in a row, and What's With Stealth came to my mind as you were trying to define runners here. I haven't played many stealth games, so I hadn't thought a lot about what really MAKES a stealth game, but your argument that the genre requires a combination of mechanics and aesthetics made a lot of sense to me. I haven't played many runners, either, but I wonder if the same thing is true here: that aesthetics are important to the genre. can we say that Gradius, Rock Band, Star Fox, and other rail shooters AREN'T runners, because an avatar isn't running and jumping and dodging obstacles? (ooh, but what about jetpack joyride? >_>) well, I suppose there's always going to be gray areas. perhaps, someday, someone will make a first-person stealth runner-shooter rhythm game. in space. (if there isn't already one lurking on itch, or something :P)
@qwuzzy
8 жыл бұрын
I like how when the Guitar Hero clip came up I instantly knew what song it was by the notes.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
I don't get the opportunity to brag to my audience that I'm a God at Guitar Hero very much, so I always use the same song when I do show it.
@qwuzzy
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games wow are all those rhythm game clips you playing? or just GH
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Guitar Hero and Audiosurf are me. All the other Rhythm Games are various friends willing to help out by providing game footage.
@qwuzzy
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games nice :D
@AJ-kj1go
8 жыл бұрын
Great video. Very strong writing.
@XrosHeartless
7 жыл бұрын
If I had to put FNAF into a specific category, I'd call it "Timed Survival"
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
I think that's a really good title for it, but I wonder if it would catch on.
@hrwhahaha
8 жыл бұрын
That's most likely is the most funniest episode you made.
@MrSandMan961
8 жыл бұрын
I think what sets Runners apart is that they need a sort of character or avatar as well as a constant sense of forward action or movement. Star Fox having a shooting mechanic might keep it from being described as a runner since there's a sense of combat. Runners involve dodging or invading rather than getting rid of your obstacles outright. It's like the difference between an acting game and a character action game. Rayman Legends has runner levels because of the music levels and the game's one to one gameplay is very much based off of momentum but it's not a runner itself.
@stormmerm4776
8 жыл бұрын
Missed your videos, dude!
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
+Stormmer M Me too.
@svge96
8 жыл бұрын
This channel is so good. I am sure that if you start making episodes more often, you will shoot higher and quicker than EC.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Eh, it's hard to say--EC's appeal is partly because they cover more than just Game Design. Also, one of the reasons my content is so good is because it takes a long time to make a really good video that I'm really proud of.
@svge96
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games I unsubscribed from them because they cover more than just Game Design (they often talk about things they don't know shit about). I know some people who did so as well. So the fact that you cover only games seems more like a plus to a part of audience which certainly exists and of which I am a member.
@TwilightWolf032
8 жыл бұрын
What's with you in this video?! Nice video, by the way :D
@acegamereviews9350
8 жыл бұрын
Great stuff man. As for whether or not FNAF is a runner i'd have say no, as gaming genres are more often then not defined by the appeal of a game instead of it's mechanics, Portal and Fallout may have all of the classifications of First person shooters in design but people don't play those games for the shooting mechanics.
@acegamereviews9350
8 жыл бұрын
And FNAF's appeal isn't Linear gameplay or skill mastery it's horror.
@hemangchauhan2864
8 жыл бұрын
Had you titled the video, "What's with genres" and then then started to talk about runners then only to come back at problem of defining a genre, I think this video would've been very impactful
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
I considered it, but that'd ruin the surprise.
@hemangchauhan2864
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games Ehhhhh... Well, I think having an opening different to the title would be a surprise and a strong opening in itself. But, It's up to you.
@MiddleClasshole77
7 жыл бұрын
I love this channel.
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
Same
@mur22
8 жыл бұрын
Glad the show's back!
@Zeuss036
8 жыл бұрын
Bran Stark talking about running, ha!
@MoonSpiritChannel
8 жыл бұрын
This video is making my head spin, or running circles in this case. Honestly, no FNaF is no runner. Temple Run, that's a runner. Star Fox, I classify as on-rails shooter. I don't wanna blur the lines so much.
@theanonymouswaffle4576
7 жыл бұрын
I find fnaf to blur the line between point and clicks and runners.
@Sarmachus
8 жыл бұрын
Generally, I think for a game to fit in the runner genre it needs to feature an object or character in addition to the restrictions you placed. The genre probably got it's name because in many cases of games from this genre, a character is often running. Rhythm games do not feature such objects.
@claytongrange2137
7 жыл бұрын
I think genres are meant to help yclassify games where you do similar actions and feel similarly as the player. Many games incorporate several different types of gameplay, but that is meant to keep the gameplay from feeling stale. Genres can be defined, but not all games fit into only one genre.
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
+Clayton Grange It gets really sticky when you get too deep and pedantic about it, which is the main purpose of the video.
@tabbyteacat
8 жыл бұрын
Hello! I have an idea for a video. Could you do what's with touchscreens? I believe it could be an interesting topic.
@The0GamingHero
8 жыл бұрын
*LOVE THE VID MAN!! FUNNY TOO!* *ALSO, DO YOU THINK POKEMON GO IS A RUNNER? ;-)* *(I THINK IT ONLY TURNS INTO A RUNNER WHEN THERE'S A LEGENDARY POKEMON NEAR!!)*
@dogsneezer259
8 жыл бұрын
a endlessrunner is a game where the main goal is to get more characters and highscores (if its on mobile :3)
@Quasihamster
7 жыл бұрын
I dare to say Fallout 4 is a runner. It's all about how many settlements you manage to help before you say, You know what Preston? Fuck this. I'm joining the Institute!
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
+Mikosch2 Oh boy, I got a whole something else planned for Fallout 4.
@batyaggy325
2 жыл бұрын
I died when bop it showed up.
@pausebreakreviews
8 жыл бұрын
CJ, are you okay? I would say 'running' is required for something to be a runner. Hence why I wouldn't define Outrun or Starfox as runners.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
So does that make Flappy Bird not a Runner? What about Race The Sun or Velocibox? The key point of your sentences is "I." Everyone has different ideas of what makes each Genre (and in some cases, I'd argue this is true of everything ever, not just genre), so it's a little silly to try to assert something with confidence when other people have differing perspectives. I would still call Starfox a Runner myself. And yes I am okay, Alex, how are you c:
@pausebreakreviews
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games I wasn't saying I was right, just that that's how I personally feel about it. My apologies if my statement sounded like anything otherwise.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Nah dude I know I'm just playing.
@pausebreakreviews
8 жыл бұрын
I just asked how you were because you seemed perturbed at the end of that video. c:
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
That's my secret. I'm always perturbed.
@OldyAlbert
8 жыл бұрын
You know why rythm-games, Star Fox 5 nights at freddies are not runners? Because u don't run in them. Call things what they are - Star Fox is a flyer, 5 Nights is a sitter!
@Red5rainbow
6 жыл бұрын
“Is five nights at freddys a runner?”
@claytongrange2137
7 жыл бұрын
I'll add to your definition of runner: moving through space, usually with obstacles. So FNAF and Guitar Hero are not runners.
@JimNoBoDie
8 жыл бұрын
Great episode. Great points like always. Genres are really weird.
@th1anonly309
8 жыл бұрын
should be called "What's with... Genres?"
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
But that'd spoil the surprise
@cristobalvalle1796
8 жыл бұрын
By that line of idea . does it mean that on rail shooters are runners ,since you don't move by yourself ans just keep moving by the timing the game makes you?
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
In my opinion, games that are "on rails" abide by the requisites of a Runner. But as I say in the video, these requisites vary from person to person, so it'd be unfair to say that my opinion is fact.
@OtakuNoShitpost
8 жыл бұрын
I think that you essentially do need to include some of the aesthetics of the game in the definition, because those aesthetics do influence the perception of the mechanics. A runner, therefore, is a game with constant forced progression through a visual representation of space where the player is in control of an avatar's position in n-1 of the game's n dimensions of play. It will usually focus on avoiding obstacles through maneuverability, though sometimes the challenge may involve some form of projectile used to dispatch of obstacles. However, maneuvering to avoid obstacles must make up at least 51% of the challenges presented by the game. Thus, something like Star Fox could be a runner, but the Gummi Sections of KH2 are more definitely Shmups due to their combat focus taking up a majority of the levels' challenges.
@SimnaibnSind
8 жыл бұрын
And notes in a Rhythm game are pockets of safety surrounded by obstacles that the player must avoid.
@OtakuNoShitpost
8 жыл бұрын
Simna ibn Sind I'm sorry? This feels like half a response. In any case, yes, you would kind of be correct. However, I go back to my statement of being in control of an avatar during the play of the game, which is in direct conflict with rhythm games such as DDR or Guitar Hero, where the player must enter multiple notes at once, which would require "being in" two pockets of safety at once, which I feel can pretty much be agreed upon to be ludicrous. As I said, the aesthetics which surround the mechanics are just as vital to the definition of a genre as the mechanics themselves, because these aesthetics change how the player interprets the mechanics.
@SimnaibnSind
8 жыл бұрын
A character avatar like the those seen in Audiosurf or Amplitude or Frequency or Retro/Grade or Cosmic DJ? Also, split notes in Guitar Hero are just a set of switches and the player must press simultaneously to remove the barrier they'll run into otherwise.
@OtakuNoShitpost
8 жыл бұрын
Simna ibn Sind Audio Surf yes, those others I have no clue. And it's not exactly a barrier that the player runs into, since missing them still allows the game to continue. It doesn't "block" progress, and because of this, it might be easier to call it a shmup than a runner, since you are trying to dispatch of numerous "enemies" moving in a set pattern. Besides, as I said, no avatar to control.
@SimnaibnSind
8 жыл бұрын
Barriers need not stop you to be qualify. You simply crash through it and lose health. And all those games I named have avatars you control.
@twilightvulpine
8 жыл бұрын
No, Five Nights at Freddy's absolutely is not a runner. You can even argue runners and rhythm games are largely the same outside of presentation, but both of them display clearly in some way what is the input they expect from the player. Five Nights after Freddy's doesn't. It does not require much precision in response either, just that you discover it and act before the time limit is over.
@ChrisTheFields
8 жыл бұрын
Was the irony of this video being that you weren't constantly talking about the subject and backtracked on your thoughts?
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Probably not.
@TheTC
8 жыл бұрын
I've never played one of the Sonic telephone games, so I have no opinion, but judging by the videos I've seen of said games, I assume hitting a wall means you die. So I guess if you hit a wall and die, it's a runner.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Tons of Runners have "Lives" (a number of times you can hit the wall), or even a regenerative health system, like Temple Run: Hitting a wall means that you run slower for just a moment, allowing the enemy chasing you to catch up. If you make another mistake shortly afterward, you lose. Otherwise, if you perform well for a certain amount of time, you manage to run out of this critical state and back into "Full Health."
@TheTC
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games Ah okay. I guess this is like the "what's a continent?" question. LOL
@zsewqthewolf1194
7 жыл бұрын
star fox is a rail shooter
@totalmadnesman
8 жыл бұрын
Qualitiy content here but why soooo few vids ;_; I totaly lost the channel 3-4 months ago (YouPoop deleted my subscribtion) and I was sad to see only some new vids :c
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Sorry a lot, been super busy. That and it takes time to make a video I'm really really proud of. I do have a really super video that I hope to get out before the end of October, stay tuned for that!
@totalmadnesman
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games Well I am subscribed again so :)
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
+TotalMadnessMan oh yeah I know. Just keeping you informed on what to expect in the future.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
+TotalMadnessMan oh yeah I know. Just keeping you informed on what to expect in the future.
@totalmadnesman
8 жыл бұрын
What's With Games Looking forward to seeing some more videos :)
@RaymondTracer
8 жыл бұрын
Audiosurf isn't a rhythm game, its a music game, the game has no rhythm it just tries to match up blocks randomly with the song.
@ElGalanRoncindan
8 жыл бұрын
Are the 3D sonic games runners?
@VladiMatt
8 жыл бұрын
All of them but Sonic Boom, that one's more of a jogger.
@JayCork
8 жыл бұрын
This video's funny.
@hiimcj4907
8 жыл бұрын
omg this video is so wrong I can't believe how wrong you are. clearly none of these games are runners based on my own interpretation of the genre and not based on anyone else's interpretations, because their interpretations are all wrong because that's how things work
@angeladelaney6161
7 жыл бұрын
What is ur interpretation
@akirabaes4644
8 жыл бұрын
Trying to define things is all good, but a word's meaning is here to serve a purpose and not just to be observed. I think that's why you kind of gave up there, no clear motivation on why to define a runner (except to decide if FNAF is a runner...?). The definition given here of runner (continuous progress) is making too much abstraction of what's actually described, the platforming and running part. I believe the thematics of the runner genre can help us visualize and define the actual mechanics. You can abstract the idea of a runner until there only remain the "on-rails" part, but thematically runner is still used to describe a game where the character "runs" trough obstacles without being able to stop at will. Sometimes genres are not purely based on gameplay but are a weird mish-mash of perception and thematics or arbitrary elements like FPS/TPS and further expectations, but in this case, I believe there are actually gameplay reasons for why there is a character and obstacles, I don't think it's just an artefact due to limitations of the available runners. So let's say that if we were to build a "runner", there would be two things at least having the focus: A character that advances trough a level, and obstacles to avoid/collect. That's not really a definition, but a description, but we can link that to what a "runner" player would expect from a runner game as main focus: Ways to react to the obstacles, by moving the character, mainly using quick reflexes, obstacles showing up a short time before they have to be acknowledged (based on the speed of the character), failure to do so counting as a very bad thing, but the window to do so can be adjusted based on previous obstacles. In most rythm games you don't move a character, you have to rely on timing only, and failures are not as impactful (you can't "anticipate" the failure coming unlike a wall after a bad move in a runner). In most shooting games the shooting (precision) is as important as the dodging and the dodging is proportionally more based on positionning (again precision and space awareness) than reflexes. So I'd bet that what's *appealing in a runner* is that balance of having to *react to objects that you can see* but being able to *slightly adapt your position/lenght of jump for the next obstacle*, combined with the *automation simplifying the controls*. (Not part of the definition but usual additional properties derivable from the definition: because of the simple controls, it's classicaly a game that's simple to pick up casually. With a gameplay mainly soft-reflex-based, it's often beginner-friendly but with enough nuance in controls to feel skill progression.) This makes Star Fox not a runner in my book, because the focus is on aiming and dodging precision, and the automation (on-rails) do not simplify the controls that much. This makes Mario Run a runner because the automation is there so that you don't have to press buttons to advance on a touchdevice, and you can control your jumps to take in account several obstacles. Most rythm games are not runners because they only ever take one obstacle in account at time (there is no character "position" or "height" to manage, it's either hit or miss). Flappy Bird would be a runner mechanically (autoscroll simplifying controls, reflex-based, obstacles to dodge, height and speed management), even though it would not thematically (there is no "running") so there's still room for discussion. Maybe I went tunnel vision here but I think that's a good mechanical description of a runner that can be used to make a game that feels like a runner or recommend games that works like runners. There might be games that are mechanically runners but not thematically runners (nothing is "running") that might please the same gaming demography. Or games that uses runner mechanics then combine it with something else entirely. So I guess my take out from this comment would be to be more utilisarian with your definitions. "Look at it from a maker's perspective" to see what makes the game tick and how to make one, then "from a gamer's perspective" to look at what the appeal of the genre actually is (what people are looking for). What is incidental (appears because of the examples chosen), what is the core (what can be extended trough every game). Sure there will be outliers (there always are on the boundaries) but you don't have to MAKE them fit (do they just have more stuff added on? do they lack something that might not be crucial after all?). Classification should not be the main goal though. How can we use this definition to recommend games/make games/look for games to play? Do we want a strict, sharp and precise definition, or a blury, blunt and all-purpose definition? Do we want a list of not-exclusive properties? Which one is more *useful* to us? Instead of giving up on the idea of genres altogether, we can look at why they exist: because we are looking for something more or less specific, maybe sometimes more an idea/theme than a mechanic. This is the first video I see of you, so I guess my critique lacks a bit of context like I'm overreacting. :V I like that there are videogame concepts analysis, I'd probably check some more videos, but I was bummed that this one didn't seem to get to the point.
@akirabaes4644
8 жыл бұрын
What I mean is to not give up on genres completely. Genres can still be compared, like when I put Runners and Rythm games side to side. When I put that Runners "take in account several obstacles", meaning the amount of decisions we have to make per obstacle: Jumps: shallow or long? Late or early? Dodge: left or right? Based not only on the oncoming obstacle, but also on the next and the player's current position. And Rythm games don't have to deal with such decisions usually, you have to press at the right timing. Then we could reduce the "obstacle-dodging" further to "react to something by making a decision based on oncoming information" if it's useful (maybe in some context, like if you want to compare Tetris or One Finger Death Punch to Runners). We can change the level of abstraction to be the most interesting one. Runners and Rythm games are both reflex-based, but Runners usually have one more temporal variable to take in account for the player (such as position) which also gives some leeway to the precision, while Rythm games mainly have to take in account the music or the beats. In exchange to that simplicity Rythm games are able to use way more inputs and can be more strict with the timing (but don't have to, I'm thinking of the Rhythm Heaven minigames which uses only A and B). I don't mean that runners have to use only one input (some Runners have different obstacles requiring different inputs while maintaining some level of simplicity, ex. www.kongregate.com/games/soulgame/rogue-soul ), and actually a lot of music-based Runners would also qualify as Rythm games (but not as much the opposite) because genres are like that, defineable but not clearly separate, sometimes overlap, with genre-defining core points and usually observed genre-reinforcing (side) properties.
@WhatsWithGames
8 жыл бұрын
Hey man thanks for the super long insightful comment. This is definitely one of the weirder episodes to start on, but I'm always happy to read super long comments. This is a weirder episode to start on because it's my first... "artistic" episode. This is my first analysis where the point is implicit. It's not that Genres are to be disregarded, but that they are problematic, and that we must be mindful when discussing genre. Just read the comments on my Roguelikes video and you'll see what I mean. I'd make this comment longer to respond more to all of what you had to say, but I'm actually in a hurry right now. Thanks for watching, I hope I see more long comments soon.
@miles45ful
7 жыл бұрын
oh god i just checked a newer video and you still wear that hat, these videos arent bad. but that hat is just agonizing to see whenever you come back on screen
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
+miles45ful It's my trademark, mate.
@miles45ful
7 жыл бұрын
it's probably time to find a new one
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
That's funny, my watch says it's time to smash that like button.
@miles45ful
7 жыл бұрын
i'd honestly like videos and subscribe with a bit of a change. these videos are obviously produced well and i commend you for that. your sense of what clothes to wear on the other hand...
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
+miles45ful I can respect someone for not liking my clothes, but I like to think it allows me to stand out. If it makes you feel any better, the video I'm currently working on probably won't show me on screen.
@angeladelaney6161
7 жыл бұрын
Starfox is a runner. You cant backtrack. Rythym games are runners. You cant backtrack. fnaf is NOT a runner. You can bactrack
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
Is there a way to make time go backwards in FNAF?
@angeladelaney6161
7 жыл бұрын
if you turn right you can turn left again
@SimnaibnSind
7 жыл бұрын
But you can make opposing turns in a lot of runners
@angeladelaney6161
7 жыл бұрын
those are under specific events. in fnaf you do it freely
@WhatsWithGames
7 жыл бұрын
But left/right isn't the dimension that you're bound to in FNAF. If we're interpreting FNAF as a Runner, your' strapped into Time and can't adjust it--it just goes on it's own. Similarly, look at a game like Flappy Bird. You're constantly moving right, and you can't change that. Now, in Flappy Bird, you also can move up and down. You primarily do this to avoid obstacles in the environment. In FNAF, you move left and right for this same purpose: to avoid obstacles that come toward you in the environment (namely the animatronics).
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