00:00:00 Intro 00:20:50 Emily joins HLL 01:09:44 micspam is happy to purchase the Ahri skin 01:30:20 waka feels the Ahri skin sets a scary and exploitative precedent 01:58:55 Dirtymike's take: the DIG roster move highlights the need for players to market themselves 02:18:27 johnjr121 asks if gentlemen's agreements exist in LoL 02:41:40 Outro
@ReZileancy
2 ай бұрын
"Theres no way I could not like any caller more than caller 2." Caller 3: "Hold my beer"
@TooStealthy4U
2 ай бұрын
incredible that both callers were on different ends of the topic and both still so frustrating LOL
@Shatswell
2 ай бұрын
Caller 3 def sniffs his own farts from a wine glass.
@amluke87
2 ай бұрын
When the guest is Kelby May, it’s gonna be a good day.
@Pizzastealingninja
2 ай бұрын
Spittin bars
@bradclarke7874
2 ай бұрын
When Kelby is on the show, to grab some lotion I must go
@insignificantdamage3446
2 ай бұрын
I was on board with Faker being the first intro to the hall of legends until the event pass was released. In hindsight, this should have been his farewell. I think it would have gotten way less backlash if Faker was retiring and the event included all his career.
@tylerferman-cole5729
2 ай бұрын
I live for these mega long episodes.
@dan-4033
2 ай бұрын
Had to skip Waka's take in the end as this dude was completely incapable of making a coherent argument. Became pretty intolerable to listen to.
@w.ejustplay
2 ай бұрын
Literally just did the same thing. They could have picked literally anyone else in the discord that night to explain their thoughts and it would have been better (myself included, I was dying to rip this thing apart live). I don’t even want to go back and give it another shot at this point
@Seen347
2 ай бұрын
Is it so hard to describe how an skin that should be accessible to everyone as a testament to a HoL players legacy yet it is so overpriced that not even children seeking it as a birthday present can access it unless their parents are whales themselves??
@seanhaggerty9
2 ай бұрын
There is a $20 version lol
@Seen347
2 ай бұрын
@seanhaggerty9 "20 dollar version" is does not include ahri at all?? 50 dollar version does in its base form but that's besides the point. All signatures and things that ACTUALLY represented are gated by a pay wall. No amount of justification can redeem making fakers image a money grab. Just no.
@christianwallander2412
2 ай бұрын
I can agree that it should not have been the only way to buy a connection to a player that might be the favorite for many kids. If it would just be a super expensive skin im all for it if it can support something I like to watch. Not all products are for everyone, lego has 500+dollar products for kids and they dont get much hate for it.
@leozacharydickenson769
2 ай бұрын
Here's the thing Riot KNEW this blowback would happen. They did the math and decided the $$$ was worth the blowback. It's a big jump down a bad path, and you can call the marketing "strategic" but we all know what that means. They hyped us up knowing we'd get whiplash. If it was $70, nobody would bat an eye even though $70 is still a HUGE amount for an in-game cosmetic for a single champ.
@aoh4905
2 ай бұрын
To many $500 is nothing so even if they are not a Faker fan some would buy it just to flex.. many people play with group of friends or at lan centers and it's a real flex like literally a $50k Hermes bag.
@hdkonvick6299
2 ай бұрын
I think they would make more money if they priced it around 70
@koutroubasathanasios7322
2 ай бұрын
Blowback = marketing. Everyone in an uproar = exposure. And with the current brain rotted state of the world, with attention span below goldfish levels. Tomorrow noone remembers that shit. As with 100 other shit they've done in the past. And the loop goes round again and again and again. Its a legitimate marketing practice for a lot of companies, for quite a while now.
@Azazreal
2 ай бұрын
@@hdkonvick6299 They dont want ''more'' money. This is a test. If enough whales buy this, we will see a tonne more.
@maeyko.
2 ай бұрын
I agree with Kelby's multiple points about the bundle pricing damaging Riot's branding. I think if the max bundle cost $200 in line with the Jhin chroma, maybe even up to $250 and offered a tier with the Ahri skin and some icons for the price of a legendary, a middle tier with the additional SKT T1 chromas and an upgraded Ahri skin for like a mythic+ level, and then the Faker Collector Bundle with everything for $200-$250, it would go over much better with the community through word of mouth and would allow this to truly be a celebration of Faker. The time-limited nature of the bundles is ALREADY contributing to the prestige of the skins involved, we don't need to milk the price on top of the time-limitation. What this has already done is ruin the prestige around the skin itself because some gamers are willing to mock and grief users who have the skin because they feel that purchasers of the skin are supporting overpriced skins that will continue to set further precedents for high pricing. In this instance, those who want to support Faker and want to look cool while doing so will potentially be harassed from others within the community since it's seen as a ripoff. I agree that a lot of this comes from the "I want this but don't want to spend that much money" crowd, but I think Riot sacrificing goodwill for the exorbitant skin prices is definitely not the way to go for the players or Riot Games.
@flakey9155
2 ай бұрын
One thing you don't get is about people "mocking and griefing" is gamers also have thicker skin and don't give a flying f about people being jealous. Often its even fuel, and gives joy if that much attention is being brought to it because they have something the other guy wants but doesn't have. So people planning on griefing and mocking Ahri skin buyers are really only showing weakness that this whole thing affects them this much.
@maeyko.
2 ай бұрын
@@flakey9155 There will be some who don't care and will buy the skin and flex it, there will be some who pass on the skin because they don't want others to judge them, and there might be some who buy it and never display it to silently show support for Faker and avoid ridicule from their peers. In the end, at least for the immediate future, the celebration of Faker has been derailed by the monetization discussions of the bundles which is a shame regardless.
@johnkirk1772
2 ай бұрын
If you wanna buy it buy it if not not it’s all good - the biggest point the made is this: it TAKES AWAY from celebrating Faker, this should have been this momentous occasion to celebrate THE goat of esports and instead it’s all about the skin and its mindboggling price, they somehow made the most accessible league player inaccessible to league players for his celebration Also how is the hall of legends NOT a scam? Who’s in it? When will we get the lineup? One person per year with the skins? That’ not a hall of legends, that’s a skin sale
@maeyko.
2 ай бұрын
@@johnkirk1772 Exactly! I think there is a middleground where they could have still made bank, people would have loved it from all sides and gamers would remember this event for the cool Faker stuff they got for an affordable price and could even drive non-esports fans to the esports side of things because of the dope stuff in the pass and the shop. I do agree with you that this feels entirely like a cash grab/skin sale MORE than the celebration of Faker, which is the entire problem with the bundles and the pricing. I believe that if the pricing was more affordable for a larger number of people, the prestige of the Hall of Legends would still be seen as a vessel to sell skins, but the community could still feels like the Hall is a proper celebration of a player and a way to support them. There is certainly a way for Riot to bridge the gap here and blend "cash grab" with "prestigious event that recognizes someone important to the game's history."
@ukstevey
2 ай бұрын
still 4 times the price of a triple A game come on bro - dont encourage this shit.
@kelleyau9056
2 ай бұрын
I love these episodies so much more then when they talk about how X team is going to win X split or beat X team.
@Turbovolver
2 ай бұрын
Based Kelby and Cubby saying two weeks is too often for patches.
@DJ-se5pl
2 ай бұрын
I actually agree with the first real caller. If I could spend money to support teams more directly, I probably would. For me buying a $500 skin it's not feasible. Buying two to three skins a year for $25 to $50 for a specific player or a specific team that I want to support would be awesome. Most skins feel all at the same to me. I don't care about League lore that much, in the skin lines don't do it for me. But if I could rep something or someone I cared about that would be awesome
@daltonwood8881
2 ай бұрын
Permaban Ahri. Simple solution.
@badvertise
2 ай бұрын
i loved emily's call and the discussion on the topic. might be one of my favorite episodes in a while
@BorisTheGoose92
2 ай бұрын
I do foresee some issue moreso with the precedent than anything. Back when we first started playing we had skins for 520, 750, and 975 RP. Then Riot slowly decided to "shift focus" to higher cost skins and now we never get a skin released less than 975 RP. The bulk of skins now sell at the 1320 RP price point. Shifting away from the products that were seen as more reasonable. Now, if we start purchasing these ultra premium skins then it incentivizes Riot to put into product pipelines lower cost stuff and instead focus on ultra premium product slots. I used to purchase skins for the game, but as the costs kept trending upward I chose to stop. So, now the company no longer receives my financial support. Of course it's the idea of for every 2-3 people that leave or stop paying this there are 8 or so people that will continue paying the higher cost. So, it was ends up being a net positive. But there is likely a breaking price point.
@XXANDERALEXX
2 ай бұрын
Wow a 3-hour banger, the Kaisa call out at the end was very funny
@dookiehead-ll4jw
2 ай бұрын
Riot is really good at making themselves look terrible especially the marketing arm of Riot with how many opportunities they've missed. Riot has had so many chances to market LoL to a broader audience especially at it's peak, never once besides recently for worlds when they had that terrible coke flavor did I see them market to the general public, no merch, no partnerships with bigger brands, no retail presence... Do they even have a marketing team?? Complete and utter failure in that department.
@plutonasa
2 ай бұрын
the ahri skin buyer is the first, legit shill I've heard speak about their thoughts. Big "sense of pride and accomplishment" vibe.
@DeFiantApocalypse
2 ай бұрын
It’s just cope and what Riot tells themselves to justify the price. Gotta honor the goat by ripping off their fans when Faker himself does not use or buy skins. Banning Ahri every game :)
@plutonasa
2 ай бұрын
also, both pro and anti ahri skin, I think, poorly argue their case. Regarding gacha, I'd argue the $500 is BETTER than gacha STRICTLY because the contents of the $500 bundle is guaranteed vs a random roll at 1% change of getting a legendary character. As Raz says, it is gambling. Regarding exclusivity, a high price point does create a sense of exclusivity, albeit very artificially created, imo. A lot of things are highly priced for braggin rights. But to showcase it in a way that seems to celebrate LoL E-Sports feels empty, considering Faker is known for not using skins. I wouldn't mind the Ahri skin having a higher price point than typical, maybe up to $100, personally. E-Sports started very grassroots and then came into the industry it is now, good or bad. To celebrate Faker's legacy in this way does not feel rewarding to those who have followed him or the game from the beginning (not saying that I did).
@wokka6554
2 ай бұрын
@@plutonasa im the one who was the anti call in. I got surprised by the focus on the gacha part of my take but to be honest i didnt go deep on the pity system that the many gacha games I play so that gambling mechanic to me is non existent for any player who is playing the game to the point where they have enough currency for free pulls you can get what you want. Thats why to me the whole $500 upfront price was to me worse than gacha. The systems in place in those games reward time and planning so thats my pov. But for I wanted to push was the precedent that a huge price hike can set for less than skins relative to ultimates but it to me got overshadowed by emotion and the gacha part of my take to focus.
@klinkclang
2 ай бұрын
I watched Faker win season 3 finals live on Twitch, and I wouldn't even think to buy that dumbass skin. I would love to spend money to get skins for teams who haven't won worlds, but I'm not an idiot who is ready to "happily" drop $500 on a singular skin to support teams when literally only 30% of the profits are being split among the entire fucking esports industry while 70% goes straight to Riot. He doesn't want to support esports; he wants to be special. He said as much while bragging about the Clutch gaming icon that "no one has." I'd happily spend 100 dollars on the bundle, but we're not celebrating Faker with this bundle. We're using Faker as a selling point for retarded whales who just want to flaunt their wasted money.
@flakey9155
2 ай бұрын
@@wokka6554 they talked about it, by using the jhin chroma example they apparently rather have a 300 dollar skin with no gacha than a 200 gacha skin for the same skin. Lets say its 20 dollars every 10 pull. The perspective is that its predatory since once you spend that entry 20 and lose, then you go another 20 and lose, it keeps gamblers going thinking they are going to win. Once you start with the low price point of 20 dollars, gamblers feel its a waste to walk away until they win. If its just a "buy now" no gacha, even if the price is higher, only people willing to spend that max amount will get it. It is not abusing the gambling weakness of people and sunken cost into that skin until you get it. But gacha games sell power and powercreep and have way more issues not touched on. Personally I rather a cheaper skin if the guarantee is lower cost even if its gacha, but for gacha you have to very informed on how it works before going into it. I feel like their stance is one that is trying to protect many people are not well informed or are gambling addicts. League skins are just cosmetic and the cost will be whatever the buyer is willing to spend. So I can see why they prefer not having gacha skins even if its more expensive, even if I don't really hold the same opinion.
@watermage25
2 ай бұрын
the huge problem with buying cosmetics and spending that much on a cosmetic is that you do not own it in anyway. If your acc is ever lost, so is all your money spent. At least for other games in which you buy a product i.e a dlc or the game itself is or even a physical product is you own it. Accs can always be taken away.
@proteuswest1084
2 ай бұрын
Honestly, I am not buying any skins anymore and was never a big purchaser of them in the first place, but as someone who devotedly follows the eSports, I can say that it feels bad to see the Hall of Legends so aggressively monetized when it's been marketed as honoring the best player's career and contributions to the sport and to the game at large. You could make this accessible to a larger portion of the player base, make an obscene amount of money, and not make the entire Hall of Legends look like a cash grab. In the past, there have been expensive skins, but part of Riot's appeal over the years has been that their cosmetic prices were reasonable and affordable for an average consumer, which meant that people tended to buy skins in volume and then feel good about their purchase. With extremely high priced exclusive skins now part of the equation, Riot can't really trumpet their devotion to players anymore without people expressing a high level of skepticism. We used to meme on other games who charged $80 for an in game top hat, but now we're just as bad.
@gregpartridge7554
2 ай бұрын
Disagree with Cubby about T1/LCK getting a larger cut of the teams' pool. That 1) makes the popularity contest aspect of who gets inducted into the HoL much worse because now it's a regional and team battle for more money, and 2) widens the gap between the already most successful region and everyone else. I'd rather see it distributed evenly among the tier 1 teams, and have a sizable part of the pool go to tier 2 as well.
@_OldGrandpa
2 ай бұрын
This episode really showcased Travis's patience. Thank you for your service to the community.
@user-nv4fj2yh8l
2 ай бұрын
The only thing i have a problem with is I want to celebrate Faker but I do not have the money to show it off. I'd rather it be a physical statue since I can show that whenever instead of a skin for a champ I MIGHT play
@Brawph
2 ай бұрын
2:32:00 To Kelby's question: I think the 2 week patch cycle came about because in like SEASON 1 they released champions every 2 weeks. (Shit, Travis literally says this 2 minutes later)
@gurnt1154
2 ай бұрын
As an Ad blocker apologist, I do subscribe to the KZitem channel, like all videos, and subscribe on Twitch.....BUT I WILL BE DAMNED IF YOU EXPECT ME TO WATCH AN AD I don't consent to.....Love you Travis
@chsunny2750
2 ай бұрын
Its disappointing because we could have gotten Ahri as a SKT skin but they decided to go with HoL. It also left a sour taste in my mouth because prior to this it seemed to be a celebration of Faker's career....and then they flipped the table and its just a money grab. They did a 180 and alot of us got whiplash.
@GameDesignFoundry
2 ай бұрын
It's interesting that the 'active player' hangup was mentioned as a big one. I play both League of Legends and Magic the Gathering at a pretty competitive level and when the MTG hall of fame existed it was quite common to have players make the hall of fame while still active. I guess it is true that players do not continue to play league comp as they get older the same way they continue to play in MTG.
@ryanh1129
2 ай бұрын
If a player has to be retired to be eligible for the HoF, what happens if they unretire? That's certainly happened a lot of times, like with Uzi. In pro sports, there's usually a period in between when you retire and when you're eligible for the Hall but League esports won't have the same relevancy for decades.
@rudedinosaur
2 ай бұрын
@@ryanh1129 I agree with that, I think the main problem was that if it is just who is most popular at the time getting the votes from people (since votes are how they are doing it), when do the retired people ever actually get it? They become less "popular" every year they aren't pro, so maybe the answer is either...making it so that more than 1 or whatever make it in a year...or don't make it be based on popular votes and just use data points or something and Riot decides internally who gets in
@panda93247
2 ай бұрын
To be fair, when does someone retire from a card game? I'm pretty sure the answer isn't when they are not physically capable of keeping up with the younger players mechanics.
@xben9216
2 ай бұрын
Comparing a card game with an MMORPG is just straight up stupidsm ngl. In MMO's u need hands. Really fast hands. Mechanics what make you the best of the best. In card game you only need brain and understandment how different stuff works with each other. Unless you play an Exodia deck (HS example) where you need to do things really damn fast. Want a really good example for it? Brian Kibler. He's my favorite card players and he's still so fricking good at it both at HS and MTG. But honestly when will you retire from MTG for real? Unless you decide it personally to retire and go casting or idk (I don't watch card game tournaments anymore) then probably almost never. Unless u start a family and you go streaming. FPS players usually retire at around 28-30, MMO players usually retire at the same age. Then why can't wait a little longer? This is just a greedy unreasonable movement from Riot.
@gregpartridge7554
2 ай бұрын
@@panda93247 It's not really about mechanical speed in esports either, or else players would be playing much longer than late 20s. Mostly it's just people deciding they don't want to dedicate their lives 100% to the game anymore as they get older, but to the extent that there are physical limitations it's wear on the body that prevents them from being able to maintain the same practice regimen as a younger player.
@slumdo666
2 ай бұрын
Great episode. Rare Kelby appearance, and Raz doesn't sound like he's streaming from a submarine 😂
@hammerify7431
2 ай бұрын
Listening through the cost/value breakdown... Did anyone read the FAQ and realize that the skins get locked away "forever" after this event concludes in July? Unlike other worlds/team based skins which print money indefinitely... this one is a one time thing.
@Straxus
2 ай бұрын
Congratulations you have learned what FOMO is. Pressuring consumers into buying something by telling them they can never get it again. You frontload all of that "infinite money" from sales over time into the one month availability period!
@LIFEGUARD_MANCHAE
2 ай бұрын
500 on pixels? I'd rather spend it on my other drug, MtG. At least the cards are tangible
@josephharty5048
2 ай бұрын
My guy hasn’t learned what an NFT is lol
@4thKJU
2 ай бұрын
when micspam pauses and all 4 put on their thinking caps - that's when you know a discussion is respectful, and progressive
@HeroicMizu
2 ай бұрын
I started playing in S2 and don't play much now days, but still watch pro play. Every so often there will be a cool skin release and I'll go buy it especially if its a Worlds skin and play a few games. I thought the idea of HoF was really cool and was something to celebrate players and giving the community skin that was widely accessible. However the pricing is just gross at multiple tiers, it just preys on peoples fomo and to see how much they can charge to get away with it. If it's suppose to support the team, I think the revenue split should be higher then 30%. Now I'm wondering if this why Faker couldn't get a Worlds Ahri skin is because Riot had this is mind?
@kireeyusino6425
2 ай бұрын
riot must be hurting if they really want to milk their players. also if you're willing to spend 500 dollars for pixel skin, you should probably reconsider your life goals. it's just cosmetic and after you use it for a while, you'll come to the realization that its not worth 500.
@sgtmoo4281
2 ай бұрын
Travis! I just saw you will be at IEM Dallas! So excited to go I hope I see you there
@ReaverMoggy
2 ай бұрын
At 2:30:20 something Kelby reacts to the "every two week balance patches" Though everyone who actually reads the patchnotes knows it's 90% placebo patches with little to no content. Big updates that matter come around start of season, mid season and some between summer and worlds to try and fine tune the worlds meta. No one here is going to tell me that the latest Gangplank changes will actually have an effect. First of all you haven't read them, second of all he wasn't picked prior to them, and 5 armor at lvl 10 is not what was stopping him from being picked. Most other games have rarer, more impactful changes. While league has frequent mostly nothing changes. It's basically only an update to put new skins on the client.
@rei5212
2 ай бұрын
I'm with the sentiment that it's a damn shame that all the air was taken out of the sails to commemorate a player who is proof that this game is accessible. Yes you can get more out of putting money into it but even Faker's story of coming from a family that wasn't too well off and doesn't need skins to make this game, or esports, look great. Also, I'm with Emily too that the esports division doesn't nearly get as much support as it does for being a marketing arm. Even the times where I casually only watched Worlds got me to reinstall the game for a bit. This could've been an opportunity to bring back older players to the game and now it's dismissed.
@brianvandell5969
2 ай бұрын
Emily used the word 'exception' and I expected Travis to terminate the call immediately.
@LGNDARYAssassin
2 ай бұрын
Not sure if this has been addressed anywhere, but was Faker part of a contract on this item? Like a Nike contract for a professional sports player.
@trysephiroth007
2 ай бұрын
I need a Faker Azir skin that lets me press a button and shuffle someone . How much RP would that be?
@henryliu5566
2 ай бұрын
600 dollars worth
@User-pu3lc
2 ай бұрын
The amount of cope this panel had when the super fan called in and said “I want this” is hilarious.
@elifoyle5996
2 ай бұрын
The main issue is not that there is an expensive skin available to whales, like the ugly $200 Jhin chroma. The main issue is that this ruins the hall of legends and the opportunity for everyone to support Faker’s amazing career and legacy. On top of that the skin is 20ish times more expensive than the highest quality skins, without a significant difference in quality.
@bmbmunoz2
2 ай бұрын
One thing that could flip this entire "skin too expensive" discussion in one second is if they increased the amount of "bonus" rp you receive during the event. Notice they never said what the actual real world cost of the bundle is going to be, they just gave us a price in RP and told us that we would be able to purchase enough rp in one transaction to buy the most expensive bundle (which currently you cannot purchase more than $100 in one transaction. They could easily increase the amount of "bonus RP" and make it so $300 or less could get you the most expensive bundle. $300 is still insane for a signature on a turret and an emote but it would be a more stomachable price for a lot more people. and it would give riot an opportunity to say "we listened to you and your feedback and we are making changes blah blah blah." Especially when so many eyes are on riot and league right now it would be a GENIUS marketing move.
@mwbwyatt
2 ай бұрын
that would be smart, which riot has proven consistently over the many years theyve operated, that they, are not. this is nothing more than a simple cash grab, but at the same time, look how many outlets or content creators who dont even have anything to do with league are covering this. as they say, even negative press is still press. theyve been going down a dangerous path ever since the leagues have been franchised. with the louis voitton kinda thing, they dipped their toes. prestige skins sell INCREDIBLY, which while not nearly as expensive, are still 30-40$ in most countries. then they added loot boxes for special skins (the jhin, yone capsule skins, etc etc) and now, theyre going with absurdly priced bundles. im...on the fence about it regardless, as i know and have spent far more than that on gacha gaming, so this is as they said..for the whales. the problem is theyre using the excuse of hall of legends/fakers legacy as the selling point, which seems super greedy. if someone wants to spend for it, more power to them, its their income. if people wanna band together and perma ban ahri so nobody gets to use it, thats hilarious. for the average player i think its really not gonna affect them either way.
@ultraaran15
2 ай бұрын
Its very very simple how Riot fixed the hall of legends and skin issue. Firstly lower the skin to 300 dollars, it still intrigues the whales and it losers the bar of entry so it doesnt take a weeks worth of income for the avg person to get the skin (look not everything is about america this skin costs almost 700 canadian or over 750 AUS or 685,000 korean won) which across the board is almost 70 hrs of work for just the skin for these countries. Lower the bar of entry it will increase sales AND not hurt the longevity of the program. You cant drop another hall of legends player skin at 500 dollars and expect nearly the same amount of sales but at 300 or 200 the gap closes significantly. The overall logistics of this is for immediate payout vs longevity of the scene which is sad. Secondly induct 5 players each year one from each role into the hall of legends to not only avoid rankings in the future but to also monetarily create 5 new skins for each role so you dont have to “play ahri” everygame to get your skin picked. Easy first 5 people to induct even if we count axtive players HELL you could induct 5 players with a minimum of 1 from each major reason to give the ABILITY to squeeze in western players. First 5 could easily be Impact-Top (appeals to Korean and NA) Diamondprox- JG(EU) Chovy- Mid(KR) Uzi- ADC(China) and Mata- Support (Kr/China) like this just makes it 20x better and the skins being in different roles allows a wider net of people able to buy in and participate.
@DSavioiur77
2 ай бұрын
I always thought it was wild esports wasn't monetized more. Like where are player/team theme emotes. Would love one with big dhoaks for example. I just think the price point for faker skin is way off but the idea solid. I also do acknowledge it's hard to get branding going for players when players last a year on average for a team.
@rendelfrades
2 ай бұрын
Even the OF content creators that I've subscribed are much cheaper than a $500 skins bundle. 💀💀
@achroniccarebear7464
2 ай бұрын
It's funny because I view what FLY did to Jensen more aggregious than what DIG did to Exyu - It could be that I just have no visibility because I'm not on Twitter or in Reddit, but there appears to be no reasoning why Jensen was benched, and given the Inspired interview, it feels like it's his doing + maybe Bwipos? When they were the two poor performers at MSI this seems so far backwards - seems like a grudge and is kind of cringe from FQ's perspective, especially with how well Jensen played during the NA playoffs. This isn't to say Exyu's situation isn't shitty, but (IMO) it makes sense why they would go for a known quantity in Spica over Exyu if they're changing out top/adc anyways. Regardless, I'm excited to see how DIG fairs and I'm also now cheering against FlyQuest because Inspired seems like a kicking and screaming baby when things aren't going his way and in my eyes, lead to them making a poor roster decision, hello new TSM
@anthonyricher
2 ай бұрын
You clearly know nothing of Quad. It was likely planned this way, with the option to retain Jensen if it worked well enough. It didn't.
@Turbovolver
2 ай бұрын
You're taking the angle of which replacement was more deserved, but I think a big part of why the Exyu situation is seen as shitty is because they told him so close to letting him go that he was guaranteed fine. As for FLY, they had a replacement in the wings for Jensen, and there was obviously animosity on the team (I don't care what anyone says about how it's all banter lol). Or at the very least, there was a fundamental disagreement on how to play the game, whether you call that animosity or not. So let's say they had to pick one of Jensen or Inspired to go, and they have a midlaner in the wings, makes sense as a decision. In terms of how "deserved" it was though, I kinda agree with you. Sure Jensen had a more controlled style, "vegan" some would say, but he wasn't vegan in the later game teamfights. He was pumping out damage and kills in tons of their games. Bwipo and Inspired weren't impressive at MSI. They clearly provide direction to the team and maybe if Quad fits in better with that the team will improve. But I hope Jensen flourishes on the new DIG. Actually kind of hype for a roster with Licorice and Zven's return too.
@nemonymous89
2 ай бұрын
Kelly seems so much smarter than most other guests.
@travisace
2 ай бұрын
Only way tonshow riot that we are not with this is to not purchase the skin and to perma ban ahri everygame.
@kevinco7226
2 ай бұрын
almost 3hr episode lets GO
@wriggs21
2 ай бұрын
man 2 hours of ahri skin talk. I will be glad when the LCS is back lol
@DougBartonLHS
2 ай бұрын
The $500 skin doesn't change my LoL experience one bit. I don't care if Riot tries to make money that way.
@thekidmega6473
2 ай бұрын
**** Travis Gafford. Im so sick of every league content creator dissing fans and generalizing the attributes of the worst imaginable LoLesport consumers like we are ALL the same. The dedicated fans get zero mentions, zero love, and I am getting really sick of it.
@LFC4LIFEJEDI
2 ай бұрын
If you don't want the skin, don't buy it. If you do want it but can't afford it, tough luck. There are plenty of things I want but can't afford, I don't expect the manufacturers of those things to drop the price so I can afford it. Its no different to complaining that you can't afford a "insert your favourite Supercar" or the latest GPU from Nvidia / AMD etc.. Its just a skin ffs
@Fullmetal6
2 ай бұрын
great show Travis et al.
@gamensch2629
2 ай бұрын
#permabanahri NOW the immortilized version is barely worth 50 bucks, also as I've understood everyone plans on blaming people who buy these two skins for these prices until forever
@PlsDontReadThis123
2 ай бұрын
Eh i dont care as it doesnt affect gameplay. I only want a larger portion to go to teams
@gamensch2629
2 ай бұрын
@@PlsDontReadThis123 understandable, but you know there are other ways to do that financially right? And T1 and Faker are already somewhat rich, I mean it's good for the LCK
@qstimpert
2 ай бұрын
Feels bad for ahri players. I'm down for spending skins but when you make it that much for a cool skin me really wanting it doesn't matter because if I buy it I'm in financial jeopardy
@thezedmain1603
2 ай бұрын
the really bad part of the over priced skin is because its FOMO! IT IS FOMO, it i a extremely predatory marketing strategy that is used for no reason other than to make some people buy it because it will be gone forever. It may not be a scam but it is as predatory as it gets. Its 700$ canadian lol. Also the guy who will buy the skin but doesnt play ahri is a complete tool, legit tossing 70% of the amount into the tecent void. hes supporting data collection companies, not esports. homie could have subbed to travis or bought a bunch of merch. Also when he said hes getting it to flex, does he not realize everyone will make fun of him instead?
@sn0wwarrior
2 ай бұрын
my initial reaction to the whole thing was this is insane and feels bad for people wanting to celebrate and show support faker that cant just be whales and spend stupid amounts of money, and having the skins tied to the bundles feels bad. That being said, I see the point of the different price tiers, and the ability to support lol esports which is good its nice to see those options, the problem is the optics, this is blind siding players who were ready to pay for legendary or ultimate tier pricing not bundles at $45-$500. That is where the blow back is coming from is the poor communication and and unexpected unprecedented price points. I do think the rage is over the top, but as someone who was initially very upset about the monetization strategy and lack of clarity going into this.
@josephharty5048
2 ай бұрын
NFTs be laughing at a $500 dollar cost
@usill3309
2 ай бұрын
Travis. They print money. They dont put skin sales into the esport. they don't make enough skins for the esport. they are inting their monitezation.
@yasuchika
2 ай бұрын
A celebration for LoL's most legendary player instead got turned into a cynical cash grab, very disappointing.
@Firechicken217
2 ай бұрын
i think minimizing it to just a product for whales isnt the way to look at it, and comparing people freaking out about this to a bunch of social issues and saying "well this isnt as bad as saudi arabia or harassment " is dumb. it is an extremely predatory business practice to not only price this bundle 10x higher than anything theyve ever made, but to then lock everything that even makes it special behind a 250 dollar paywall, and then on top of all of that make it a limited time only never to come back skin. you can compare it to whatever you want and say "who cares" but the people that play ahri, the people that want some fancy pixels and be able to support their favorite player, want to be able to afford it and feel like they arent being scammed. this is a scam. you are painting it like its a charity or a donation to faker, its not. its a cheap grab and i wouldve gladly spent 50 or maybe even 100 dollars on a cool faker skin for a champion i have millions of mastery points on. unfortunately they are trying to take the most popular player, combine it with one of their most popular champions, and make you FOMO buy it for 250 dollars. its gross, and to not understand why everyone is upset is just pure ignorance.
@anthonyricher
2 ай бұрын
You're not entitled to affordability on luxury cosmetic items that even if you purchased, you don't own per the EULA. I would happily hear your argument if it were something remotely necessary.
@Firechicken217
2 ай бұрын
@@anthonyricher im not entitled to anything. But this is essentially a spit in the face "dont be poor" price on a skin that is already inherantly worthless. I buy worthless skins, as a matter of fact ive bought every single ahri skin and every single chroma, went through multiple event passes to get rewards and chromas to have the full collection. I LIKE this skin, and i would buy it and not be mad if the pricing was anything remotely consistant with previous high priced skins. Its not about being entitled to anything, its about making things accessible without the predatory tactics to try to get people like me to buy it
@anthonyricher
2 ай бұрын
It should be reframed. It's a faker skin, not an ahri skin. Faker is not the vehicle to sell ahri skins, it's the reverse. And frankly, i don't have empathy for consumers when they're talking about frivolous spending that, ultimately, has no bearing on anything outside of a particular minor skin line. It's deliberately priced and marketed as a limited edition accessory. This happens all the time in every industry and is not a harmful practice for regular consumers. It's like designer fashion, don't buy it if it's too expensive, it's not for you and isn't worth it except as a status symbol. It's Balenciaga for basement weebs.
@anthonyricher
2 ай бұрын
Also, there's an entry level package. Like, at that point pay the amount you can afford to get the level of product you can afford. It's like being mad that they're partnering with both Levi's and Balenciaga to release jeans at different price points. You have a fucking in if you really need to spend money on products that, again, you don't own. I'd argue that the EULA denying ownership is far more predatory than an expensive skin.
@GameTheoristz
2 ай бұрын
Bruh Kelby should be involved in more episodes
@jessevillarreal5204
2 ай бұрын
IMO they could have been doing something similar to this for awhile and called it the ICON Skin Line 🤔
@DavidSzajnuk
2 ай бұрын
Kelby AND a Chainsmokers call out? I’m dreaming
@notTORYY
2 ай бұрын
Thank GOD for Raz bc at around i almost lost my shit at 1:39:00 when Travis either intentionally misses the point or is just unaware that he clearly didn’t mean “scam”. Then proceeds to be smug or have some gotcha moments. I love the show most of the time but I can’t fucking stand it when no one checks Travis on this stupid “latching onto a word or phrase” and disregarding the context in which it was said. It’s fine sometimes because it’s like a devil’s advocate thing and i really do get it but when it’s done to just push aside someones point when HE HIMSELF DOESNT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS BEING SAID AND THEN CONTINUES TO YAP it’s infuriating. (sorry for rant. i just really like this show and hate when i have to take a break)
@secondstreet4198
2 ай бұрын
The issue I see with the skin is that this is just another in a long line of decisions made by the CEO/ Execs to push for short term profits, we have seen time and time again when game devs go down that path it ultimately leads to cutting corners/laying off too many people and the game itself suffers, if that doesn't end up happening then whatever this just becomes one last kinda shitty way to make money off faker/his fan base. Also to the point that this is an opportunity to support lol e-sports the issue is that's not how this is marketed at all if they want to put out skin lines/ announcer packs or any other cosmetics make them e-sports themed and say hey part of the money from this will go to e-sports/the teams I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.
@zeronexgames9647
2 ай бұрын
So it's going to be the hall of korea and china. Got it. Good point Raz.
@ramusvinicini
2 ай бұрын
$500 for a Faker skin sounds great to me. Anyone with my level bank account or lower shouldn't be buying it sure but let those that have the money support league and eSports! I love it. People are upset because they feel that it's unfair? If you want it, get it please support riot and lck! If it's not worth it don't get it. Why complain about it when others support what you enjoy? When you see the skin on the rift thank them for supporting Riot and move on.
@etheth888
2 ай бұрын
The problem with your argument of "all the people who don't spend money on the game are suddenly complaining it costs too much" is that this is probably the greatest moment for free to play players to actually spend money on the game. They don't want to spend 500 USD and the 50 USD they might have spent is now a worse version. Riot just releasing the skin at $50 would still likely see the largest money spent on a skin. This is the singular moment combining Faker's hall of fame, Faker just winning worlds, the first faker Ahri skin, and they're disincentivizing purchasing the skin by releasing better versions out of budget in a limited time frame. I get to spend 50 USD and know other people have a better one. It's the one moment to spend money if you are ever going to but no one is going to go from spending nothing to spending 500 USD. You're other take of "just don't buy it, they'll learn and never do it again" also doesn't make sense because there is no other player as beloved as faker that could conceivably even warrant such a price tag anyway. They still wouldn't do it again because no one is going to buy some other players 500 USD skin. Matt saying people don't spend money on Esports should just look at the Dota tournament prize poll along with Dota being a game 1/5th the player base.
@cedrichofstetter4057
2 ай бұрын
banger episode!
@nemonymous89
2 ай бұрын
50% to Riot. 15% to region, split among teams. 15% to player's primary team (determined by selection group). 20% to player.
@abadida
2 ай бұрын
How about this? I rather they charge $50 for the full signature version cause its absolutely FUCKED how much they are charging for it, rather than comparing it how much better it is than gacha. Lets not justify how its not as predatory as gacha when they are basically exploiting Faker's legacy to get away with this BS price. NO JUST NO. DON'T JUSTIFY IT SAYING ITS BETTER THAN GACHA. DO NOT PUT UP WITH IT AT ALL!!!
@travisace
2 ай бұрын
The esports bubble is popped
@MikeCrazyCalvert
2 ай бұрын
Already the merch is criminally over priced for anything League, Riot, or E-Sports in general. People have a hard time justifying buying the ultimate skins.. Some skins used to under 10$ and now its closer to 15$ for a skin. Lower the price and you'll get more fucking sales, it''s not that crazy of a concept.. 500$ for a skin in a video game is criminal. Should've been 100$ tops. Even Most Gatcha games limit it to 100-150$. Faker is good, he never has to work a day again for the rest of his life.
@arthuryamamoto2267
2 ай бұрын
Look, this skin isn`t really the only problem tho. Riot has one of the worst value battle passes in the games industry since usually you can buy the next passes with enough time investment, Riot bp`s make you invest copious amounts of hours and you have to pay for each one individually. Plus, they have been reducing rewards every f-n bpass. Riot uses the loot box system excessively even, most people nowdays don`t seem to care but i remember when they were seen as very immoral and predatory gambling system. Riot has some of the most expensive skins in the entire games industry. Now about esports Riot has shot itself in the foot by making their esports exclusive to them and not letting other companies make tournaments and events, even sometimes denying influencers that would do for fun tornaments for free, giving up free publicity and hype and THEN claims it has run out of money to run esports well. THEN riot kills academy to help team owners that end up leaving anyway when their investments were run into 10mi gaming compounds that end up empty because "they dont have money to employ people". As if it was not enough, they invest their skin money from lol into a thousand new game studios and projects some of which end up abandoned like the mmo or closed like some of their indie studios, chasing that juicy infinite growth that doesnt actually exist. Then they run lcs with finals being IN STUDIO but paying for a honestly mid performance for a "opening ceremony" that nobody cares about. AND THEN WE ARE AT FAULT FOR NOT CARING ENOUGH FUNDING THEIR ESPORTS FOR THEM? REALLY? Sorry if I sound rude mate, but there's thousands of great games out there and I really am getting fed up with this bs. If riot wants to fund their esports with their skin, fine, but they wont be getting a single cent from me anymore.
@froggysense
2 ай бұрын
My issue with the skin is that my wife and I just want the skin not everything else. ahri is her favorite champion. But we are no where near a financial ability to even get one bundle. Like Riot knows we are dealing with money issues all across the world.
@zzephi
2 ай бұрын
To be fair to riot, this skin is gonna be the highest amount we'll ever got in the game for the rest of the existence of league of legends. People will buy it because it's 15% ahri and 85% faker skin. Only Faker will be able to make people spend 500euro for a skin. Maybe some crazy chinese whales are willing to go for 1000 when Hall of fame Uzi's vayne skin is coming out but other than that, i doubt much people are gonn abuy those if they keep them at this price.
@kingquesoIV
2 ай бұрын
The truth is that the hall of legends should contain lots of other players, but they had to use Faker first because they attached this cash-grab to it.
@finaljoses
2 ай бұрын
$500 But it's Faker
@CarlosCarlangas
2 ай бұрын
That dude is all about esports and showing it off but he wouldn't buy an Uzi skin....
@taylah6790
2 ай бұрын
Riot in 2024 somehow making the garena server look respectable
@shinyy5184
2 ай бұрын
Kelby CAUGHT
@aoh4905
2 ай бұрын
I don't think Faker cares exactly how much he gets.. he probably wants millions but he's not going to be greedy for every dollar.. he understands other LCK teams need money for T1 to be relevant as well and probably wants T1 to get most of the money as well.
@DjDankeykang
2 ай бұрын
I feel like the faker ahri skin will likely be remembered as league's "magic30" moment. I personally don't think it's nearly as slimy as magic30 buuuuut there's a couple of interesting little parallels and there's definitely an equal amount of outrage. With that being said I feel like the mtg community forgot about magic30 after they were finished collectively dunking on it sooooo 🤷♂️
@MRkriegs
2 ай бұрын
Dont think the ABU collectors forgot about magic 30
@kallistax
2 ай бұрын
Lol that's wild I went on a total jenny Nicholson binge over the last week. Had never heard of her before but she is great and that video was the one that pulled me in
@TXskye21
2 ай бұрын
I have a clutch gaming jersey don’t @ me
@Tanktaco
2 ай бұрын
A history Wikipedia? Why not a book?
@Aunubus69
2 ай бұрын
NO REASON TO BUY THIS BS SKIN
@Grimprospect
2 ай бұрын
Travis had a great take about them being told they need to hit a certain number or else. Great to see Kelby on the show again. Go Warhammer!
@chrisjenkins8164
2 ай бұрын
Cubby is getting better each episode. Keep loosening those shoulders more and more bubs ... which gets easier to do with time/exp 🤘
@delizious
2 ай бұрын
I wonder if Faker ever spent money on a skin.
@archique9701
2 ай бұрын
His account has em for free lol
@rmvnucks
2 ай бұрын
Are people equally upset about all the other luxury items that are not needed in life? This skin is not for everyone...and that is okay. This outrage is indicative of how hard it is to monetize esports...people are going to complain about any monetization (people complain about regular skin prices already lol).
@1MoistMike
2 ай бұрын
when league rolls out 250-500 dollar skins you know the game is at the point where they arent bringing in new players. They are trying to squeeze out as much money as they can of the people still playing. The game is on a noticeably decline and it gets worse every few months......Rip to league its been a good run.
@thekidmega6473
2 ай бұрын
holy hell mute mikespam
@aaen8443
2 ай бұрын
Straight up horrible takes on the pricing. It's not just about fomo or scamming whales. Being a huge faker fan and following the scene for so many years, but not being able to afford a skin that celebrates your favorite player just feels meh, I don't care if others like it or not, or if others get it or not, it's about wanting your own part of this Fandom, but not having 500$ for it. Doesn't matter that this is limited or not, I would never be in a situation where I have that kind of money for a game. Even the normal version is 32k rp (not counting the 6k base version) Calling it fomo is basically saying that not being able to afford etc mtg lotr cards is fomo, well mby I'm just a mtg player that love lotr and want to engage in that, but being blocked by my income not being 6 figures.
@flakey9155
2 ай бұрын
Being a huge faker fan you could celebrate it by spending 50 dollars for the legendary ahri skin+lb skin or even just 20 dollars for the LB skin. Just because they made a tier higher doesn't invalidate the effort into making the first skin. It's all in the head, where just because they made three tiers, suddenly the two below the most expensive on don't exist or are "trash".
@aaen8443
2 ай бұрын
@@flakey9155 the base skin is literally arcana ahri. For 6000 rp... We are literally justifying the most expensive skins in the game (besides 200$), and 2 skins that cost a months rent (my currently place cost 500 and when I was a student I paid 250 for rent at a much smaller place) like what? Smh It's insane that we try to justify that while also telling people "naah just buy the 6k rp version" well 6k rp is also insane in itself...
@flakey9155
2 ай бұрын
@@aaen8443 the base skin is legendary. It has new voice lines and new animations for all skills and recalls and vfx and sfx. It has everything that a legendary skin needs to be considered a legendary plus it has that kill counter taunt and it's one of the 4 skins that is exclusive to the faker event. You weren't plan on getting anything, and that's fine too, but calling it "literally arcana" just shows you don't know anything about the new skin besides it's red and black, so it must be the same skin. As for the 6k rp I get it sucks it has to be bundled with the pass, so technically it's the cost of the skin skins you can't get it without also getting the pass. Even though the pass is the best pass they have ever released for 2k rp and many players will find the first bundle reasonable as a result.
@panda93247
2 ай бұрын
Who starts a hall of fame by adding a current player?? lol How dumb.
@chefdougy
2 ай бұрын
at a time when League & Esports desperately needs a "W".... it's a bad look and tossing an easy opportunity to garner customer base appreciation and a slam dunk win for esports... the backlash is gonna be enormous on the heels of the helldiver adrenaline rush
@SaeWhat21
2 ай бұрын
Overpriced, overhyped, Corpa-sided and perma-banned from now on
@xadamxk
2 ай бұрын
Rather than GA’s, what if champions went on rotation each split? Similar to how Valorant cycles out maps. In ranked and pro play only.
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