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@JonCrs10
17 сағат бұрын
You ever heard of Bionicle?
@sheev2829
15 сағат бұрын
It, too, is an amazing example of this.
@snuppssynthchannel
9 сағат бұрын
Indeed, always thought it had this dream like, archetypal and mystical sensation to it. Like a 70's sci fi/fantasy painting by Roger Dean brought to life.
@YamiAi
7 сағат бұрын
You ever heard of the tragedy of....
@tahunuva4254
6 сағат бұрын
Gathered friends...
@diesel2526
5 сағат бұрын
Which, if you're curious, takes great inspiration from the Maori body of mythology. He atua, he tangata.
@Strange9952
12 сағат бұрын
Modern fantasy is trying to use MCU humor, but that humor doesn't work in Star Wars or LOTR because it automatically breaks the FANTASY
@joaodeves928
10 сағат бұрын
cause everything needs to look and sound like california
@nateoak10
8 сағат бұрын
Yall just say anything , since when did the new LOTR use MCU humor?
@harrythedirty4256
7 сағат бұрын
Erm, in English please?
@NoobTamer
7 сағат бұрын
@@nateoak10 He probably meant Rings of Power, LOTR was almost certainly a typo on their part. Of course the hobbit movies also contained cringe MCU style dialogue.
@alb0zfinest
6 сағат бұрын
What? Star Wars is a Spaghetti Western in space lol. It definitely has MCU cringe humor starting from the first movie, that's why it sucks. Definitely wouldn't work for Lotr though, and than god there is none of that in the actual books, or even Jackson's movies.
@mysticalG33
7 сағат бұрын
Modern fantasy feels like a reskin of real life, just with magic and stuff.
@an8790
3 сағат бұрын
It's because it's propaganda.
@Ithirahad
3 сағат бұрын
Calling them real life or magic is overgenerous. Specifically a post/modernist Western lens on real life, just with fake physics. "Magic" is as much if not far moreso an experiential phenomenon as a physical one, and a lot of nominally fantasy series lack that.
@piotrwisniewski70
3 сағат бұрын
@@an8790 wdym
@an8790
2 сағат бұрын
@@piotrwisniewski70 Studios are more concerned with a political message than with timeless storytelling. That's why the narratives always just mimic reality and never feel fantastical. They just dress current issues in a fantasy setting. Imo, since all ideologies are very flawed, it makes the stories a lot worse as timeless virtues such as kindness or bravery is replaced with the current day morality.
@an8790
2 сағат бұрын
@@piotrwisniewski70 Current day morality = woke
@jazzflute
Күн бұрын
Ok that Jamie Lee Curtis TRAUMA supercut was funny as shit 😅
@ericlewisauthor
12 сағат бұрын
The entire grimdark subgenre would like a word with you...
@xXx_Oshino_xXx
7 сағат бұрын
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!
@DuelingDragonAdventures
20 минут бұрын
No more grimdark No more black pills No more morally gray Reclaim Fantasy
@chrisdiokno5600
8 сағат бұрын
I think a majority of it comes down to how popular "dark fantasy" has become. Which yes it CAN work well, in some cases, it's mostly "How much gore and sex can we throw in?"
@harmonlanager2670
2 сағат бұрын
Yeah but that’s Sturgeon’s Law: 90% of anything is crap. The only reason why the past seems so good is because we only remember things that were good enough to be memorable. We forget the other 90%. Anyone remember the movies that tried to ride off LoTR success? Eragon? Seventh Son? Clash of Titans?
@chrisdiokno5600
Сағат бұрын
@@harmonlanager2670 Seventh Son was decent. But yea
@balbibiggons2148
Күн бұрын
I don't comment often, or really ever, but this is legitimately one of the best youtube videos I've ever seen, and I'll probably watch it a couple more times to study it. Thank you for putting into words something that I didn't know how to express when it comes to fantasy fiction.
@Novastar.SaberCombat
14 сағат бұрын
The world really needs something fresh but professionally crafted. Zon, Hollywon't, and Didnay can't do it. Not even after years of ignoring exemplary storytelling basics. Go figure, right? 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength, resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ --Diamond Dragons (series)
@ccronk
12 сағат бұрын
Couldn’t get past more than 10 mins in tbh… just another unqualified KZitemr making statements presenting as factual without any backup (it means to state or show your proof of reference!). If he has some degree(?) he should state that from the beginning than randomly talk about the 19th century or whatever… yeah, all high fantasy is doomed lol
@Lord-of-D
Күн бұрын
So, from what I'm getting here, where the Mythological and Contemporary are centered around presumptions of the divine, the Enlightened revolves around the reaching for and reckoning with it in ourselves.
@josh_from_xboxlive
Күн бұрын
I think you said it better than I did!
@Novastar.SaberCombat
14 сағат бұрын
Whatever the case may be, Hollywon't, Zon, and Didnay are so far from the mark on crafting exemplary storytelling, they might as well be broadcasting from UY-Scuti. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge; hope's strength, resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨ --Diamond Dragons (series)
@citycrusher9308
10 сағат бұрын
@@josh_from_xboxlive You miss the elephant in the room. The modern remakes are empty because they are made by fem in ists who wish to defame the originals because they appealed to a male audience. Humanizing the orcs is about saying - ''you men aren't the heros you think you are. You are the bad guys''. It is to take the enjoyment of the sense of victory out of the story for men as well
@creatrixZBD
7 сағат бұрын
@@citycrusher9308personally I see that as more of a side effect of over-deconstruction, rather than any nefarious plan of one of the sexes.
@citycrusher9308
6 сағат бұрын
@@creatrixZBD Than you are coping. It's the other way around. The down fall in quality is the side affect of fem in ist h8. You see it in the Barbie movie, MCU's Captain Marvel, and Rachel Zeglers snow white. (just to mention a few off the top of my head)
@trinstonmichaels7062
11 сағат бұрын
I think the problem with modern fantasy is the lack of mystery nowadays they explain everything in the world leaving nothing to wonder about.
@rb-oo5mz
9 сағат бұрын
Only fools or charlatans have simple answers to complex questions and with degradation of education there more fools who think they know everything, it reflects in media. For example right now we as a human kind on the verge of great technological advancement, but due to lack of knowledge most people don't see it. There is a biggest war in human history since WW2 that is going on right now and most technological one, but due to lack of knowledge people just tent to ignore it. Degradation of fantasy and especially SCIENCE-FICTION reflects that very well.
@luthor24127
6 сағат бұрын
I feel like that's a good tell of an insecure writer or execs pushing for more clarity. These writer worldbuild everything they can, make characters 'with depth' and then just... tell you everything about it to your face, instead of trusting their audience to piece it by themselves. Like helicopter parent they will hover around to make sure you 'got it'.
@Slater2113
4 сағат бұрын
It highly depends. If your series is 1-3 books long you can get away with leaving a lot to the imagination but the larger the scope of the story becomes, the lazier omissions in your world building and narrative begin to be perceived. Ambiguity in the wheel of time feels worse than ambiguity in the Hobbit (I’m taking the hobbit out of context of the larger middle earth canon in this example)
@Ithirahad
3 сағат бұрын
Explaining things, turning over stones, and drawing back curtains is not a sin! The problem is how exactly it is done. You can have a well fleshed-out world that still feels epic and wondrous, but a lot of times the explanations given unnecessarily dull the effect that elements of the world should otherwise have.
@Strange9952
11 сағат бұрын
Conan the Barbarian is a fantastic movie!
@phdost3267
20 сағат бұрын
This spectrum concept is really interesting though I'd argue you (and most modern writers) tend to get lost in 'meta hell' while you forget in the process that the essence of good/fun is often a lot more basic than your abstractions. Take the horror genre as an example.. a good scary movie succeeds not because it strikes a lore balance but because the director knows exactly when and how to evoke basic emotions like fear out of the audience. The same idea is true for other genre even if the emotions they want to elicit are more complex. That's not to say you shouldn't ask yourself where your story is on the spectrum but please remember that what matters is how you leverage that position to make the audience feel 'something'. In the end, it doesn't matter if the characters are multi-dimensional or mythical figures as long as the choices you make are holistic and craft a fine-tuned rollercoaster of sensations.
@ninjafoxgamesgeekery
10 сағат бұрын
Your comment made me think of the line Epic Rap Battles of History gave Alfred Hitchcock "I squeeze screams out of chocolate syrup!" Like you said, a director that knows when and how to evoke basic emotions and Hitchcock did indeed do so with chocolate syrup.
@ForbiddenFollyFollower
Минут бұрын
I wouldn't say he's lost at all. The goal was to figure why we watch lotr "a billion times" and we both know it's because it's much more deep than just being good fun.
@Lupostehgreat
9 сағат бұрын
So I think it ultimately comes down to the reasoning for Fantasy/Sci-fi/Horror (as the late Harlan Ellison referred to them, speculative fiction), is to examine ideas and concepts in the contemporary era whether they are timely or universal. Fantasy is grounded in myth and fables, folklore. Sci-fi is grounded in speculation about new worlds, or worlds that could be if we work towards it. Dystopian sci-fi does much the same, but functions as modern prophecy (this is where we are going if we do not change our course). Horror is meant to be the training ground of resilience, as well as a repository of warning stories. I say all this to say I believe the people writing fantasy for mainstream outlets, nowadays, are often very arrogant people who throw out methods and techniques along with ideas.
@KangKadmus
10 сағат бұрын
Tolkien was literally one of the top scholars in the world and is irreplaceable. Good luck finding another one of those.
@RapsandRiffs
22 сағат бұрын
19:20 I really like what you said about how the villains in lord of the rings represent internal struggle personified as opposed to classist struggles like in “Light” which I also like, but now I can separate the two experiences.
@Rexomagne
7 сағат бұрын
You need to transcribe this as a paper. This is the kind of thing that should be read in English classrooms. Really great video
@sirkamyk9886
11 сағат бұрын
This video accurately diagnoses the problems, but it falls for the revolutionary conceit. Frodo and Sam are the heroes even though they are not as "powerful" as Gandalf or Aragorn or Luke Skywalker. The goal is not to become divine by becoming powerful. The goal is to become divine by being good. Not everyone can become powerful, and this is not something to be fixed, it's human nature. Everyone can however be good.
@Hirfel
8 сағат бұрын
36:11
@A42AI
7 сағат бұрын
I'm not sure how you watched the video and came to the conclusion that he thinks power equals the divine or heroic. He even says what you wrote in your comment, practically word for word, that it's about a moral choice. Even without that last part, the ideas in the video taken together don't suggest 'revolutionary conceit' or power as being ultimately desirable. Quite the opposite.
@vandrar3n
3 сағат бұрын
@@A42AI Some people comment without ending videos
@davidpo5517
9 сағат бұрын
You raise some great points, but I think you missed what connects them. The thing you're describing with the "modern consciousness" is just the rise of individualism as a feature of grand narratives. Individualism has always existed at the micro-level, of close-knit families and friends. But in larger communities like family trees and tribes and nations, the individual was always subject to the collective. The Enlightenment thinking changed this to mean the most important thing in a society is the individual and their autonomy, and literature reflects that slow change. Instead of poetry that gives a communal mythos, where the individual represents their group and their place in it, we see just the subjective individual. I love how you touch on morality tho. Morality is a thing connected to depth and meaning. Meaning in a person's life comes from outside of themselves, and so too does morality. This means you cannot be hyper-individualistic and be moral, because it becomes all about your perspective at the expense of others. Your our points on us thinking grey is better than good hits home, lol. Is it realistic, yes cuz we're grey, but pure good is better than us, and outside us, and needs to be depicted or we'll never reach for it to become better ourselves. Also the modern psychology of the characters is spot on! The one good thing the TV show Rings of Power has done well is that one episode where Celebrimbor slowly realizes Eregion has been destroyed while he's been under Sauron's spell...which was only possible because they invited him in. Evil can only enchant you if you invite it in so you can fulfill what you most desire-that's mythology. And it's one of the only things that works. Adding psychology takes away symbolism. They try and make up for the loss of symbolism with representation, but it's not deep enough. I find it interesting that you think the goal should be a new mythology like Star Wars where the mortal becomes immortal, and humanity reaches for the divine/impossible. There are mythological stories about this-and it never ends well. This is why I think Lotr is better than Star Wars. The infinite should assist and complete our finite-ness, the finite should not try and become infinite. I also don't like the idea of there being a moment (kind of like a Singularity) where human becomes divine. The definition of mortal is that we change-to reflect immortality means an eternal journey, not a destination. Perhaps that's not what you were getting at, but it's what it made me think of.
@hoos3014
9 сағат бұрын
Fascinating essay. One thing I'm not quite clear about is in your discussion on morality with regard to contemporary vs mythological storytelling. Psyche was literally a Greek goddess. Zeus was the biggest a-hole since the creation of the spoken word. All of the Jungian archetypes describe the full range of human experiences. Our mythical beings were complicated as hell. They were rarely black and white. I think you said it best when you said that sometimes people are nostalgic for a time that never existed.
@MiguelFernández-t3e
13 сағат бұрын
The best classic works of fantasy touch something in your heart, their archetipes are timeless. Contemporary fantsy is more like "check list" fantasy, AKA talentless fantasy
@KatAdVictoriam
12 сағат бұрын
100% It's about making everything "relatable" to the writers themselves and their personal peer groups rather than going deeper to create something more archetypal and spiritual/philosophical. They take everything "literally" and have no grasp of allegory.
@kongspeaks4778
11 сағат бұрын
Just say you're religious my brother in Christ
@Yora21
9 сағат бұрын
There's always been checklist fiction. It just isn't remembered by anyone 20-30 years down the line.
@MiguelFernández-t3e
6 сағат бұрын
@@Yora21 are you talking about the batshit crazy fantasy movies from the 80's?
@Yora21
6 сағат бұрын
@@MiguelFernández-t3e All fiction. We only talk about works to later generations that have something worthwhile to talk about.
@TheLyricalCleric
10 сағат бұрын
For my money, the most recent expression of this high fantasy trope of reaching for the gods is Chirrut Imwe in Rogue One, played by Donnie Yen. He is not a hero, but he aspires to become one with the force and he is serious in his devotion. His final act of sacrifice to send off the Death Star plans always makes me cry, as he repeats his mantra “I am one with the Force and the Force is with me.” That’s what real high fantasy should do, is show people’s aspirations actually making a difference, their faith rewarded, their devotion meaningful. Part of Romanticism’s enduring aspect is the core belief that there is a greater meaning in the world, and we as humans ought to seek it. However, I wouldn’t recommend calling that “enlightened” fantasy, because the Enlightenment was instead the push to privilege reason over what was deemed as superstition and human achievement over reverence. However, fantasy has always been a Romantic art, a dissatisfaction with the present soulless regime and the desire to return to a previous unsullied existence. Returns to nature, gods, and rural life are all Romantic ideals, and they exist in contrast to the dull psychological trauma dumps of modern fantasy. That’s why I’d prefer a term like “high fantasy” even to contrast with “low fantasy” where there is no greater good than just getting by. Silly French fabliaux, comedies like Shrek, and Spaceballs are a better use of low fantasy because they use the tropes of high fantasy to poke fun at the seriousness of belief in them.
@KatAdVictoriam
12 сағат бұрын
I like your t-shirt. This is a really good, thoughtful essay. It reminds me of a comment section discussion I had recently in regards to the degradation of Star Wars (via recent Disney endeavors) and academia's dismissal of Campbell, Freud, Jung, etc. as outdated and irrelevant. I have noticed something among current book publishing --- especially among the female-centered (or marketed this way) of "Greek retellings" or retellings of any mythologies in which it's entirely of modern day language, belief systems, politics, ideology, etc. with a main character named Ariadne or Antigone, with very little actual understanding of the sources stories. A Wiki-level grasp is what suffices these days. Schools no longer spend an entire semester on all of the Greek and Roman mythos, which would lead into deep study of Shakespeare. That's practically unheard of now. I'm old though, so.... My longwinded final point is that fantasy, Mythological (and Philosophical) science fiction are my favorite genres in books and film and there is no rewatchability or immersion or anything to ponder and take away when the stories and characters are crafted solely to reflect "modern audiences". When people live a life reflected of themselves via social media (and yt) and live in echo chambers, it bleeds into the worldbuilding and characters they're writing. Writers are no longer able to separate themselves or their own worldview in order to create anything new. Be innovative. There is a warped sense of "all that is now requires representation and self inserts" instead of creating something universal in a more elevated way. Or... I'm talking nonsense, and I'm totally off base here. This was something that struck me watching your essay and wanted to throw out there.
@OldyAlbert
10 сағат бұрын
On the video - isn't "mortals becoming divine" are basically Chinese "Cultivation Fantasy"? Basically most of the battle shounen anime. Kinda going from beating up a bully to galaxy/god level conflicts thouth the course of the story. I like it but as a weeb feels like i been watching that since forever and you present it as like a new path forward. I mean i agree, it's just we are not really lack that if you not just watching western stuff. Even some Idinan stuff can be, while can be wierd and overly slow-mo, still pretty mythical. Kinda not related to this video's topic, but my problem with all this spin-offs/prequels/sequels that made not by original creators is that they're missing very important part of fantasy/sci-fi - introduction of the world and it's rules while we going thouth the story. And that's happens because it is written as a fanfic inside existing world, they cannot expand what they don't know, they cannot change the rules since they were already established (i don't want them to, i'm just saying why it's boring). When LotR's characters go and meet elves in the woods or into the dwarven mines it's both in-the-moment adventure and in exploration of the universe for the viewer. But when you be like "i want a Boba Fett show" - AT BEST you will get just a good criminal drama (wich it isn't but in theory could have been) but you will not learn new aspect of the universe, it's not a fantastical adventure it's a filler arc. It cannon move the universe anywhere, it cannot show you new rules of the universe since it's writers don't even have ability to do that. And i can see people saying "good is good, if it's a good criminal drama then why not", but i didn't come to something called "Star Wars" to watch CSI. If you play a challenging videogame you learn both it's general rules and specific enemy encounter rules as you go along. Maybe first boss will take you 20 tries but the second one only 2, not because it's objectively easier, but you as a player learned not just specific bosses patterns but also how to play the game generally, that's why games that do not account for that can start strong but become really boring in the second half. And i feel the same way about fantasy adventures - old Star Wars or LotR stories are both adventures of characters and eploration of their intriguing worlds and rules, all Disney/Amazon stuff is just filler arcs and bad ones at that.
@庫倫亞利克
18 минут бұрын
Cultivation novels are morally bankrupt though. The Chinese believes in things like "Sa Fa Guo Duan" (don't hesitate to kill), not even killing out of utilitarianism, just to become stronger. Like a bunch of inflated Voldemort clones mindlessly hacking at each other.
@ihaveouid3518
14 сағат бұрын
After months of feeling like I was failing in my writing, your video gave me the reassurance that I am on the right path for the story and world I aim to create. Thank you for giving me the confidence to continue writing my story.
@TheAurgelmir
7 сағат бұрын
New Star Trek post JJ Abrams great ravaging of the franchise VS the original and the TNG era. Sure the new ones are "elevated" - but man TNG has some damned good artistic nuances to it.
@douglasphillips5870
9 сағат бұрын
So it sounds like the problem isn't the modern elements, but integrating them into the world building. I think the rest is personal preference.
@Okapi540
14 сағат бұрын
I enjoyed your video! However, I don't agree with Morality as a measurement of fantasy. When I think of the best works of fantasy, particularly when it comes to morality, what immediately comes to mind are Princess Mononoke and Nausicaa. These works don't have a clear delineation between good and evil and are all the stronger for it.
@Donklopfen
13 сағат бұрын
I think Good and Evil do exist in Princess Mononoke or Nausicaa, these stories just don't have good or evil "teams", wich isn't the same thing. But I may be nitpicking on the terminology here, lol
@Fr.O.G.
10 сағат бұрын
You've misunderstood entirely! He's saying good fantasy when white man hero, but bad fantasy when woman (especially Black woman) hero! Just listen for the giant dog whistle he's blowing!
@creatrixZBD
7 сағат бұрын
Ooh thanks for reminding me of Nausicaa! It’s been too long
@glitchygear9453
7 сағат бұрын
@@Fr.O.G. wut
@creatrixZBD
7 сағат бұрын
@@Fr.O.G.a little ideological myopia may be smudging your lens, mate
@3libras903
19 сағат бұрын
Have you read Berserk? It’s very contemporary to me, but I think it’s an amazing fantasy manga.
@SnakeWasRight
22 сағат бұрын
I'm writing a "medieval" fantasy where I explicitly use the term OK because it actually isnt in the past and takes place after the modern era, with people descended from modern english speakers... but this isnt revealed for a while. So, is it a good idea? I dont know. There are pros and cons. The careful reader would notice it and question it. Some people would immediately scoff and think it was done carelessly. A different reader might think it was deliberate for a reason.
@And_stuff8
20 сағат бұрын
Adventure time 😢
@EgoEroTergum
14 сағат бұрын
Balance it with the quality of the story itself. If the plot is compelling, the reader may forgive the "mistake" long enough for it to be revealed as depth.
@GreatestAuthorinFlorida
11 сағат бұрын
@@EgoEroTergumI agree.👌🏾
@douglasphillips5870
9 сағат бұрын
If you write a medieval fantasy in middle English, no-one would understand the story. Use language the reader will understand.
@SnakeWasRight
7 сағат бұрын
@@EgoEroTergum indeed
@SerWhiskeyfeet
14 сағат бұрын
Incredible video. I appreciate the research that went into this. Outstanding all around.
@yogsothoth7594
3 сағат бұрын
I get some of the points you're trying to make but if we take an example you bring up yourself regarding Medusa. Medusa the horrible monster and Medusa the unjustly punished woman are.... both found in ancient texts. Mythological texts are hardly disinterested in the internal works of people, the tragedy perhaps most often so with both the fact that all good tragedies modern, medieval and ancient present not just the events themselves as sad but tend to include things like dialogs and monologs where the speakers lament their grief and perhaps their regrets to the audience and the classical tragedy often as a character's internal fatal flaw as a core element driving the plot and the character towards their inevitable doom. Post-modern thought has brought heightened focus on critical modes of thinking but its hardly true that this is all entirely new. Plenty of ancient texts approach the question of how should man relate to the gods or discuss about the goodness of the gods not always assuming perfect moral action in the divine by any means.
@joshelderkin9592
21 сағат бұрын
No im josh
@mrfawkes9110
18 сағат бұрын
When you say elevated I can't help but think of it as a subtle dig, like it's put on a pedestal that it doesn't belong on.
@chezlonian
7 сағат бұрын
This video puts to words a feeling I've had but couldn't explain to myself. It's the reason why books like The Wheel of Time resonate with me but the show falls entirely flat.
@Demortixx
8 сағат бұрын
As someone who grew up reading Wheel of Time series, the amazon series is absolutely terrible, and not just from a "it's worse than the book" way, it's just a badly written show
@tamaz88
10 сағат бұрын
9:16 MAGYAR ÁLLAMI TELEVÍZIÓ MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥🔥🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺🇭🇺
@brian0057
8 сағат бұрын
"Elevated horror" is just psychological horror for pretentions film students.
@SerWhiskeyfeet
15 сағат бұрын
I wanna go back to pre-psychology, when mind optimization wasn’t even a concept.
@Yora21
8 сағат бұрын
Like, 3000 years ago?
@RokkouA1
18 сағат бұрын
Thank Josh from Xbox Live, I learnt a lot. I really resonate with this theme of synthesis and unity in your videos. Also Final Fantasy X 🙂, my favourite game.
@zacharyclark3693
9 сағат бұрын
An excellent essay. Very well said. I agree that modern fantasy has trouble striking the balance of magic and realism.
@DanyelAzamor-lh7yg
7 сағат бұрын
You say "Avoid making your villains a sociopolitical other" but also say to take Avatar and Star Wars as inspirations 🤨 I feel like you are one of the guys that would say "oh no! politcs in my fantasy? 🙄" when your favorite fantasies have politics in it
@josh_from_xboxlive
6 сағат бұрын
Watch my Star Wars videos and find out :)
@M3333
19 сағат бұрын
Your videos are just unbelievably good. I really hope your channel blows up so that you have more time to make these. Commenting to help.
@skaldi8347
10 сағат бұрын
"Mortal characters..." -camera focuses on Tidus. Subbed.
@REDDAWNproject
Күн бұрын
Just started this one, but I gotta say I am really digging it so far. Great idea for a video!
@jesudamilolasalam7749
3 сағат бұрын
Love this video. Excellent editing and commentary. But in defense of stories like ASOIAF and Grimdark in general, don't we also need stories of how easy it is to fail, to reach for the divine and fall short? Or to be seduced by an idea of the divine that is in fact evil, and isn't the best way to provoke that feeling to seduce the audience too. Fantasy shouldn't restrict itself to one way of telling the 'eternal story'
@Blackinght11
7 сағат бұрын
Fantasy shows lately feel like the showrunners go "I know you want me to adapt the source material, but I can make it all about me and my original creations," and honestly that kinda sucks. No drive to make their own worlds/stories and piggyback from established IP's they have no love for whatsoever. I've seen a lot of people flee to anime, books and videogames and I don't blame them, movies/straming shows suck more often than not.
@orangeechofilms
Күн бұрын
It's wild that you mention Thomas Leitch, I had him as a professor in college. Interesting guy.
@neilgadsby3924
11 сағат бұрын
Flipping heck, that was good!
@akaking7499
9 сағат бұрын
Great video! First thing that came to my mind was Journey to the west, where flawed magical beings go on a quest and become enlightened on the way. We need more stories like that.
@vandrar3n
2 сағат бұрын
This is such a good comparison. They really hit differently as stories.
@sonni.walkman
11 сағат бұрын
the modern condition point at 12:00 is very interesting, this is a very insightful video.
@donaldpetersen2382
18 сағат бұрын
Is Full Metal Alchemist scifi or fantasy?
@JonCrs10
17 сағат бұрын
Clarke's Third Law says "Yes"
@sheev2829
15 сағат бұрын
Definitely fantasy and also a good example of "Enlightened Fantasy" as defined by the video
@justachannel8600
13 сағат бұрын
Science fantasy
@REDDAWNproject
10 сағат бұрын
Fantasy. Also a great example of the good of humanity, a great magic system, overcoming evil and humility, and confronting the idea of gods.
@Gogu500
Күн бұрын
Your channel is super underrated man, keep it up! (not down)
@nerzenjaeger
14 сағат бұрын
18:30 Just a day ago I was on a walk down from a forest trail with my girlfriend. We were talking about how in fantasy, often times other races are used to externalise human traits and in turn posit the question about what makes humans unique. This section of the video reminds me of our talk, thanks.
@frostdova
8 сағат бұрын
This is one of the most insightful videos I've seen in a while on the subject of modern fantasy, subscribed
@leighfoulkes7297
9 сағат бұрын
I kind of agree but just feel that people have forgotten how to write stories today. They abused the writers, under paid the writers and hence, no one wants to be a writer. The producers are writing most of it and they are just after easy money.
@charlessmyth
8 сағат бұрын
Nobody has to watch any of it. The old stuff remains available :-)
@normmandine134
8 сағат бұрын
This is amazing! Seeing someone eloquize my internal struggle with myth, especially with the need for myth and the desire to rob contemporary writing of its gold (so to speak) is really heartening. I’m really glad there are other people thinking these same things.
@ladyvader3173
6 сағат бұрын
Hot damn this was good. Also I am reading LotR for the first time after only having watched the movies and it feels like I have discovered a new continent, like this was here all this time??
@TNT-Thin
10 сағат бұрын
My algorithm probably led me to this video because of my interest in Metaphor ReFantazio, and I find it fascinating how a lot of the talking points in this video corelate to a lot of the concepts in that game! Enlightening stuff!
@majkus
6 сағат бұрын
Incidentally-or perhaps not!-although I am dubious about Julian Jaynes's ideas about consciousness, he does provide a partial way out to Tolkien's dilemma about Orcs and whether they could be completely evil. JRRT went back and forth on this, for largely theological reasons. Would God (Eru) provide souls (fëar) for creatures that were damned from birth? Part of the reason Tolkien was uncomfortable was that to him, the idea of speech implied a soul or spirit. But in Jaynes's model, language emerged _before_ consciousness. He postulates a human population that could speak without the ability to plan, imagine themselves in 'stories', etc. These, then, could have been Tolkien's solution-the Orcs are speaking creatures, but nevertheless have no consciousness or soul, except for that part of Sauron or Morgoth that impels them to action.
@josh_from_xboxlive
5 сағат бұрын
Fascinating point, thanks for this
@Kimberly-xg9eq
13 сағат бұрын
This video was fantastic. You put to words the core issue at the heart of a lot of fantasy media discourse so succinctly.Thank you. I do think there can be value in depicting modern people with modern struggles in fantasy-like settings, it’s just the successes are few and far between at the moment.
@carlstanford7607
5 сағат бұрын
Probably one of the most informative and interesting discussions on this subject. Fantastic job mate
@jtillman8251
5 сағат бұрын
It occurs to me that the novel "The Last Unicorn" really gets into the distinction between the mythopoetic and modern sensibilities lots of interesting ways, what with the Titular character literally being pulled out of it's timeless symbolic role and into a human life and it's treated in the text as an almost monstrous thing. It ping pongs between the very modern and mundane and the most gorgeous mythological symbolism, one moment having a character literally offer a taco to the characters in an intentionally immersion breaking joke, and in another channeling the very best of high fantasy expression. Also Molly Grue and Schmendrick are both excellent examples of the sort of character you speak of who's reaching out for the divine. I recommend it highly.
@korganrocks3995
4 сағат бұрын
That book has a strange place in my heart. I read it once years ago, thought it was beautiful but forgot what actually happened whenever I was reminded of it in the following years. I re-read it a couple of months ago, thought it was beautiful but I can't for the life of me remember wtf happened in it!
@MeticulousAM
11 сағат бұрын
Another fantastic discussion, we all appreciate the passion and effort you put into your videos
@Yora21
9 сағат бұрын
Somehow all the examples of "elevated" also make me think of "pretentious".
@sonni.walkman
11 сағат бұрын
lovely video btw, thnka you, youtube recommendation
@MRdaBakkle
44 минут бұрын
This is truly it. The failing of modern adaptions of the Rings of Power isn't black Elves, Dwarves or Hobbits. It's that the characters don't strive for goodness. The Elves of Rings of Power don't feel like mythical beings of light and good, they are modern people put into a world of magic.
@typeiii3262
13 сағат бұрын
Thank you for the motivation, I feel vigor in my breath:)
@lissavanhouten6628
40 минут бұрын
I'm not sure I like the redemption arc of Darth Vader. How could he be redeemed in the original series after all the atrocities he committed, particularly after he had killed a group of Jedi children in the Anakin story? It makes his so-called redemption even worse. The first six movies had their epic qualities though.
@DanilloVieiraArruda
11 сағат бұрын
I think fantasy today tries to be realistic, to imitate the real world, and maybe that's the problem, but that's not really a problem
@carlosbranca8080
2 сағат бұрын
Excellent video essay! Just one observation or clarification: Clash of the Titans (1981) Rules!! 2010 version is an abomination jaja. Great video, subscribed!
@centurion7398
2 сағат бұрын
I love this incredibly basic entry level knowledge that can be summarized in a 40 minute YT video is somehow utterly beyond the supposed "luminaries" that make up hollywood. We truly live in the consequences of decades of ideological (and often actual) inbreeding in our so called elite class. At this point if I found out I was sitting next to someone who acted in the RoP or an equivalent project on an airplane, I'd laugh at them, rather then being genuinely impressed as I would have sitting next to someone who worked on LOTR.
@garrettbryan2717
49 минут бұрын
I think this is great! You did an amazing job describing the issue. The solution will never work though. It’s a very nice pipe dream.
@josealzaibar5274
51 минут бұрын
I appreciate you using Yuna in your thumbnail. Final Fantasy X really belongs up there with the greats of modern fantasy abs the concept you propose of "enlightened fantasy".
@MRdaBakkle
Сағат бұрын
Peter Jackson was a horror director with a very "B filmography" he elevated horror much like Tolkien did with his fantasy epics.
@roflcopter4273
12 сағат бұрын
Very, very well put and insightful.
@Beech27
2 сағат бұрын
The last thing the internet needs is another dude suggesting someone read Sanderson, but the Stormlight Archive really is all about characters with modern psychology living within a classic mythological framework aspiring towards The Good.
@kakhakheviashvili6365
2 сағат бұрын
You can have deeply sympathetic villains in a fantasy... as long as you also have the archetype of a pure evil. Grey only makes sense in a world with black and white, it's supposed to represent stained purity, not status quo of the world. At least in mythology, goal of which was always to define and teach morality. Savage Enkidu nobly stops noble Gilgamesh from commiting savagery. It's such a striking picture in the most ancient literary work we have on our hands, and we should learn from it. Enkidu demonstrates contemporary savage, who needs to become godlike, while mythical Gilgamesh needs to abandon some of his divine rights and become more humane, more savage. One strives and needs to become more archetypical, while other needs to become less archetypical. And they learn from each other great deal. We see greyness, different moral flaws and strengths in both of heroes. But there always is purely evil Humbaba, who has to be slain. And there always are perfect gods, both of our heroes should aspire to be like and ultimately become ones. Interesting, that in meta themes, the most ancient literary work available struck better balance, than most modern writers are capable of. And, imo, main reason is hubris. Most modern people have the belief (often internal, implied) that ancient humans have nothing to offer to us. That we are better, smarter, wiser. But we really aren't. We have better technology, better society, better systems, but it was their struggle, that led us here. Their questioning of status quo, that slowly changed things to better. So instead of dismissing them as evil and backwards, we should accept, that we owe our moral high ground to them, since they hauled all that soil to make that high ground to begin with. Even if they never stood on it. Their basic struggles were hardly different than ours, and their lessons often are as valuable today, as they were back then.
@M_Rollins
2 сағат бұрын
This is the most intelligent thing I've seen on KZitem in a while. Are you sure you're from Xbox Live? I found your reasoning and definitions compelling. Subscribed and looking forward to diving into your other videos.
@blake_ridarion
3 сағат бұрын
23 minutes and 28 seconds before I got the freaking answer to the question. Good stuff but bruh, some of us have busy lives making good fantasy. Your answer wasn't exactly a revelation... Good video, thank you.
@Grim2
5 сағат бұрын
4:23 - It's a giant living statue. WHY is that stupid? WHY must it be stupid? A world of sword and sorcery where such things happen - WHY is it stupid? It's precisely this kind of cynical knee-jerking that is WRECKING fantasy genre and everything else that isn't mundane. You think it's stupid so you make it stupid and lo and behold, it is now stupid.
@henrikg1388
4 сағат бұрын
I'm glad I stumbled over this video. A very thoughtful perspective. I really feel that modern day producers simply don't understand the place of mythology or the place it should have in fantasy. And while it can be amusing to listen to Critical Drinker satirizing modern "messaging", your way of putting it is a lot more balanced.
@ThinkingManCounter
Сағат бұрын
A lot of good stuff here very well put. I don't really agree with your take on more modern fantasy, but I at least appreciate your thoughts on it. I do fully agree with your closing statements though. Aspirational stories are sorely needed in the world. People already have to live lives of compromise in a morally gray world, fantasy should be an escape to a place where good guys win and bad guys lose and there can be a happy ending.
@TimothyRice-p1r
2 сағат бұрын
What this analysis misses is the way "modern fantasy" is really just the enshittification of creative output. Corporations regard intellectual property franchises as nothing more than batteries for turning profit. To them, it doesn't matter whether their productions tells some grand story, or whether some old school fans feel like it honors the pre-enshittification source material. Their only question is, "are we delivering value to our shareholders? If so then job done." There isn't a clear answer about how to fix the situation. I doubt it's enough to tell people to just write and produce better fantasy, since the most beautiful work in the world will remain invisible until it gets picked up by a corporation. People who just sit on the sidelines and whine about the situation instead of putting their skin in the game are not helping, they just provide free advertising to the new season of whichever series they're impotently whinging about this year.
@PrincesaRobin
2 сағат бұрын
"classic" fantasy was never shallow? We just needed to look with more care? I'm really happy that I watched this video
@korganrocks3995
5 сағат бұрын
Me after 10 minutes: "I was about to get out of this chair, why didn't I check the length of this video before clicking it?" Me after 38 minutes: "This is the best goddamn video I've seen in ages!" Fantastic video, this is everything I've been trying to articulate about modern fantasy for years!
@ChristopherRoss.
5 сағат бұрын
This essay really elucidated thoughts and feelings I've been having towards modern fantasy, but haven't quite taken the time to examine or articulate. I really do think it hits the nail on the head, as far as to why modern "TV Fantasy" utterly fails the quintessential, indefectible, and lofty platonic Form of what fantasy aspires to be. As utterly corny and eye-roll-inducing as that may be, to me the genre represents the striving of the individual to transcend the base instincts that rule us, and make this existence miserable. Greed becomes humility. Fear becomes love. Selfishness becomes honour. And so, I'm reminded of Yeats: "I have spread my dreams under your feet. Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams."
@ec_me
Сағат бұрын
Im very curious what this dude would think of Malazan by Steven Erikson
@arttuluttinen
4 сағат бұрын
This guy is killing me by constantly calling pseudo-Medieval stories as feudal. I can't tell if he's using that term as a shorthand for people with no understanding of feudalism and what's being depicted, but it's driving me batty. LOTR is not trying to depict feudal kingdoms, yeesh.
@TheAurgelmir
6 сағат бұрын
One of the things I loath about contemporary fantasy is this inherent need to "science" everything. I love "it's magic stupid" approaches to magic, especially if that magic comes from the gods. Magic is the unknown, the chaos of the unknowable. Heck even Alchemy in it's original form is more mystical than just "pre-science" - but sadly all we now view it as is a form of science to explain magic. One of the major aspects of my world building in my roleplaying game is the gods, but also the religion of the world. What is it that the people say about the gods? What is the mythos? How was the world created, what was the big sins of the people who came before? It's through that a world can be explained.
@diesel2526
4 сағат бұрын
As a fantasy writer and student of mythopeia, I just wanted to say I deeply resonate with all of your thoughts presented here. For myself, it has been the process of mapping dimensionality top down that has made the most intuitive sense. From cosmological first principles through magick and language as its own symbolic power, to deities as expressions of these forces and cultures (races too) that flourish downstream of them. All of this is to say it has helped me to establish a world that feels logically continuous, and even suggestive of, a path for telling a story--one that reaches from the ground upwards, through higher dimensionality. It's this higher dimensionality which I feel is lacking in popular fantasy, perhaps for sake of convenience or efficiency, choosing instead to extract more from its surface or aesthetic attributes. The remedy to which I feel has been staring us in the face all along. Don't shy away from the big questions. Design your own, personal, symbolic universe as an act of mythopeia, and tell us how you, the hero, moved through it, just as Tolkien did before us.
@nicholasoberry1010
5 сағат бұрын
Wow thank you for this. You articulated something I have been struggling to put into words, or to even concretely conceptualize enough to put into words. This is why I didn't like movie Aragorn as much as book Aragorn, for instance. Or rather I liked movie Aragorn as a character but I wasn't moved by him in the same way. It is tremendously inspiring to me to see him as a symbol of potential actually reached and expressed, without the fetters of uncertainty and self doubt. Book Aragorn is not a man divided, he has full confidence in himself. He serves as a better counterpoint to the hobbits, who often find themselves out of their depth and unsure of whether or not they have the inner strength to press on. A friend and I were discussing this not long ago and I couldn't quite articulate why I preferred the book version, so thank you again.
@markcharron
3 сағат бұрын
And yet, most people's problems with modern fantasy are just "meh ...black dwarfs."
@hoos3014
3 сағат бұрын
💯
@Veritas.0
4 сағат бұрын
To the Fantasy Writer: Don't let your therapist ghost write your works. Snark aside, you've made an insightful video essay. I think you nail the parts the critical fans are missing and not articulating in their dissatisfaction. Well done.
@justbreathecalmdown9040
3 сағат бұрын
So Frank Herbert's Dune is the peak of enlightened phantasy? Or not? I'am curious about your view on that
@mrkjeld
4 сағат бұрын
Thanks for allowing me to not compare apples to oranges. It’s just common to hear, well that’s how the old works were done, and point to simplistic moral characters and prejudices. The idea that the mythological characters are archetypes and that the World or the vessel protagonist is in a way the character makes it hard to compare current entertainment to those works I like from previous times. Where in school we learn about different periods of collective intellect, such as the enlightenment, romanticism, modernism. We currently just call our time contemporary, which assumes is of now. I think overtime we won’t be able to put works that are now 30+ years old contemporary, for we are now passing into a new period, and to simply shut one down to showcase the other is limiting. Thanks to your piece here, having this awareness to question why we choose to storytell in such a manner will allow more courage to diverge from the popular current.
@TheAurgelmir
6 сағат бұрын
Anyone who wants contemporary fantasy that just works, who hasn't watched the anime "Frieren - Beyond Journeys End" really should. In a weird way it's the story of a cipher trying to understand what it means to be human, without falling too much into the trappings of Elevated Fantasy.
@MrJMB122
6 сағат бұрын
You nailed why the Saints come off the ways they do in writing. They have reached theosis. And in doing so became like God, but it's done as an act of love and humility. Interestingly, they are striving for divinity. Humility and love. This is something I think our modern world Forgets even more. But very similar to the idea of the mythical hero. And it's there in the Lord of the Rings; each of the main characters is a type of Christ, both in his Godhood and humanity.
@TheAurgelmir
6 сағат бұрын
Amazing analysis, and something I have believed for a long time too. The contemporary fantasy that ends up working are those who still understands this. Such as Avatar the Last Airbender - even though it has some dissonance it's ultimately a fantasy story. Where as Legend of Kora falls somewhat flat, because it takes that fantasy and puts it in a modern setting without the fantasy elements (But still somehow pulls it off because it borrows heavily from other genres to compensate - like the Hong Kong martial arts movies)
@TheAurgelmir
6 сағат бұрын
Star Wars has an amazing storytelling through Luke's outfits in each movie, that I hope was intentional. In the first movie he's pure of heart, he's not seen the world yet, so he wears a White pristine tunic. He's full of ideals. For a while in the later part of the movie he becomes a warrior clad in red. In Empire Strikes Back he's been thrown into a conflict, and his red is torn off as he struggles with internal conflicts, now his clothes are grey until he faces the shattering of his world, and his descent into the abyss (both literally and figuratively) In Return of the Jedi he wears black - both as a sign of his potential fall to evil, a potential every human bears, but also as a way to mourn his fathers fall. Then once the emperor is defeated, and his father is saved through sacrificing himself to save Luke: A small white triangle is formed when his tunic is opened. Showing Luke finding the white in his own heart again. His path returns to the light.
@richardcrafton3711
6 сағат бұрын
I really appreciated this. I've listened to a lot of genre media analysis, and in the modern day a lot of the people who are critical of modern media will kind of just say " well, it's created by woke marxists who don't respect the source material" and leave it at that. At most they'll explain what the people have done within the media that explicitly doesn't make sense in the context of that world, sometimes within the context of the fictional world, sometimes simply within the reality that is shared with this one, for instance, to the best of our knowledge fire still works the same way in the Star wars world, so why is there a campfire in space, and how does stone burn? On the other side, I have seen an abundance of people just saying " what problem? There's no problem! You're just a racist sexist homophobe if you see a problem" which for the most part in my experience, is untrue. If anything, this media has inspired that where it wasn't before, because it's giving people a pattern to recognize that says 'The inclusion or perceived elevation of women, people of color, and LGBTQ Individuals, denotes a degradation of quality, because it shows that showrunners care more about that than the story', which I think is an atrocious pattern to demonstrate, but it's hard for me to fault the observer for noticing its demonstration. I think you did an excellent job of explaining the actual psychological and philosophical phenomenon that is taking place, without making it bipartisan. Well done! You got yourself a new subscriber.
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