If the river was an 8 and the opponent decided to shove all in, would you call?
@ChiariLife420
3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely not! My question I guess is, do you ALWAYS call if you have pot odds? When is it the right time to fold with this scenario, if we just miss the river?
@vanc8288
3 жыл бұрын
I don't think anything shoves that loses to the low straight? Maybe a missed KdQd Royal Gutter? So unless the opponent is known to be a maniac you can comfortably fold. Also KdJd leaves you with 6 outs so it's already a fold on the turn for me ;)
@sean_haz
3 жыл бұрын
@@I_Want_My_Father_Back what bluffs does he have really, could probably make a tight fold vs most people. And most people aren't going to go all in with KJ when the flush gets there and the board pairs. An interesting scenario might be Qd on the river and the villian checks, is it too thin to go for value? And if so what sizing.
@jaybingham3711
3 жыл бұрын
@@ChiariLife420 Pot odds play a substantial (and grounded) role in one's analysis. But other things can and do factor in. In live play, a quality tell could certainly warrant an exception. No person ever plays perfect mathematical (let alone GTO) strategy. Super close spots are just that. The value of analysis isn't about these hands. It's about uncovering the hands where you were way off...a clear indicator of a possible leak worth plugging. Or maybe it's just a whiff. As humans, we have to accept these as part of real-world variance.
@shadowsmessage
3 жыл бұрын
No snap fold . Caller is a donkey that got extremely lucky when opponent had KJdd. Another one of those dumb calls where callers make stupid plays & try to justify it when they get lucky. 🤡🤡
@taylortryon7248
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for taking my call Bart! I learned a lot by talking through this hand and analyzing the mistakes I made throughout. Keep up the good work for the poker community!
@4M3R1C4N
3 жыл бұрын
at least your tryon
@lakerfan1855
3 жыл бұрын
"I think I just got into my head in the moment I was just like; I have a semi-bluffing hand that picked up a lot of equity on the turn, I'm gonna build a big pot to where if I hit I'm gonna extract a lot of value" And if you get raised you're gonna get blown off your equity. It's ok to check back when you have a draw to the nuts in position. Especially when board texture favors villain's range.
@gabrielrockman
3 жыл бұрын
The villain should have raised bigger on the turn, which definitely would have blown him off his equity. Making the guy pay just $500 to stay in a $1800 pot was too good of a price. Especially if you have just $865 left and the pot is going to be $2300 if he calls, I think the villain had an obvious decision to shove all in by raising to $1665 over the $300 bet. It's basically a pot size bet shoving there, which is reasonable to do when you're going all in. You don't want to give people the right price to chase their draw (or their full house) and be able to put you all in when they hit their card and fold when they don't hit their card. I think the villain made a big mistake in how he played the turn.
@bradleyking4197
3 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielrockman I don’t think villain wanted a fold thats why the price given was so good IMO
@andrewadami3920
3 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielrockman If you look at his exact hand, it makes a lot of sense why he was giving a decent price. The diamonds turn into blockers against Ax flushes and a redraw that can cooler smaller flushes on the River. I don't mind Villians raise size.
@RubberDuckStyle
3 жыл бұрын
I love how you put up the odds on the screen. 👍👍👍
@ryanjones4150
2 жыл бұрын
I like how Bart discusses what else could have happened if different cards had come out. Great analysis.
@josephmcbane5273
3 жыл бұрын
This is great!!! I’m not even close to this good but I feel like it gives me more to think about
@ChiariLife420
3 жыл бұрын
Great hand analysis. This caller actually got really lucky to have it fall in his favor. I'm not a fan of A6-9 even if suited but being on the button I guess it's ok, not sure that I would 3 bet it though. Great hand once again Bart, and really shows the breakdown of pot odds vs. outs. My math isn't very good at all, and is the weakest part of my game so I like how you broke all that down. Keep giving em to us Bart, it truly improves my game!
@no1ghostrider
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah the A 2/3/4/5 suited are better for the wheel, but be very careful if you flop 2 pair. Be prepared to be counterfeited. Maybe Bart can break down some of those hands. Always best played in position
@justinn8410
3 жыл бұрын
3bet > fold > call. Getting the limpers out with the dead money is better than letting them in and trying to hit a draw.
@davidculhane4388
Жыл бұрын
Ok OMC...
@stevenundisclosed6091
3 жыл бұрын
This is an obvious check back on the flop and river. How does someone screw this hand up so badly?
@DavidMoncrief
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah....wait. Hero rivers the nuts....
@paulpena5040
11 ай бұрын
That's so sick for villain. He's thinking "Wow not only the flopped nuts but a redraw to the 2nd steel nuts ! Pump fist all day long!!"
@jameswinters4501
3 жыл бұрын
Ah yes. Another call in where I'm the villain lol. Nice hand, Taylor.
@gabrielrockman
3 жыл бұрын
I don't like the size of the turn raise, it's such a small raise. Do you regret making such a small raise, or do you think you made the right bet size on the turn and you were doomed to get stacked in a cooler no matter what?
@taylortryon7248
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you James lol
@nickdukeman8503
3 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielrockman I always hate this method of thinking lol. What makes a poker player good is being able to extract maximum value in any given circumstance. The villain’s bet was perfect because it gave him the perfect odds to call. Also, the villain had the nuts with a re-draw to the 2nd nut flush. Hero had less outs than they calculated but ended up hitting his 7 outer
@gabrielrockman
3 жыл бұрын
@@nickdukeman8503 You don't want to give people the right price to chase their draw because sometimes they get the card they needed. Especially if you're going to go all in anyways even when they hit their draw, then it's not going to allow you to extract max value. On the contrary, it maximizes your odds of losing all of your chips, while NOT maximizing your value if the other person isn't putting in more chips if they miss their draw, but is putting in more chips when they make their draw.
@bradleyking4197
3 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielrockman but if u give a really bad price with KJ dd on the turn and they fold 20% equity ur losing value, correct?
@gnawbabygnaw
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Woke my brain up to some next level (for me) thoughts on the game. 🤙
@Dapperdave-gg6vx
3 жыл бұрын
I am the guy who would get a complete brick on the river (even with the check back) and have to give up then hope to have showdown value with my Ace.
@Its__Good
3 жыл бұрын
I've given it a few weeks before saying this, but I really don't like the intro format. Would prefer the hands were entirely spoiler free.
@benjaminlebria
3 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Its unnecessary and I always fine myself trying to skip it in time so I dont get the video ruined for me
@LukeLastname103
3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I don't like it either, it seems to be the new trend on KZitem with all kinds of videos, it's pretty annoying
@Hyde_and_Seek
3 жыл бұрын
It’s awful
@johnnytwotimes7854
3 жыл бұрын
I just fast forward past it
@RimmyJob
3 жыл бұрын
I always fast forward as well
@leeharstad1518
3 жыл бұрын
"What hands are folding to $300 that called $200 on this turn?" The answers are in the questions. lol
@mikeluka5225
4 ай бұрын
8/J of diamonds would be very playable preflop and post flop
@gunsandgaragegear601
3 жыл бұрын
I’ve been very unlucky with my flush draws lately
@clapforboobies5892
3 жыл бұрын
Flush draws aren't getting there in general lately across the poker community. Wait three months. Its cyclical.
@hogi99
Жыл бұрын
Very unlucky hand for the villain.
@geoffin99
3 жыл бұрын
With stack sizes at river, it all depends on your read of Villain whether to bluff a J. A good player will call, so many K's would have folded or shoved turn, so there are easily 20% bluffs here.
@cedriclenners3737
3 жыл бұрын
Veeeery interesting hand!
@VodinhVlogs
3 жыл бұрын
I had a very similar spot like this with < 8c 7c > in a $174 pot on < Tc 6h 3s 2c >. Turn action: villain checks, I bet 90, villain raises to 255. This villain most likely had a set. I'm getting 3~ to 1 but against a set I need 3.4 to 1. Do you make the call? Are there enough implied odds to get us a bit extra money if we hit?
@andymilic4093
3 жыл бұрын
I can't believe that the hero folded it ,??? 4 a small 500$ call on that river card with 4200$ in the pot,seems insane!!!$! shame hero was @ 1100$ on a 1$k buy-in , he didn't want to take the chance,he was figuring he'd fold out cut his losses if he's wrong & still have an extra hundred in front of him.& Be up $$,what he should've been saying is I'm looking at 6-1 pot odds & if I lose I just need to double up my remaining 600$ , and I'm over 200$ above my initial buy - in ¡!! we've all been there. Great hand break down
@raswartz
3 жыл бұрын
Very helpful to see the outs against a set vs. against a KJ.
@BigDaddyGee85
3 жыл бұрын
that turn bet says; ,,hey! Please check raise tf out of me!"
@jacobgoldman5780
Жыл бұрын
For the math against KJs shouldn’t we say on average if we assume each of the 4 combos of KJ are played equally often that we have 9+9+9+6 (against the KJd in this case since we see 6 diamonds and Qd is no good)/4 outs so on average 33/4=8.25 outs as opposed to 9? Isn’t too big of a difference but is noticeable.
@Jealod24
3 жыл бұрын
You don’t always want to bet on the flop with your flush draws. Make sure to balance out your range with checks, otherwise, all of your raises on these boards will have too many flush draws, and your checks won’t have enough value. If you’re up against good players they can exploit you by over folding to turn bets when the flush hits and betting when the flush doesn’t come in. You likely should bet 80-90% of the time and check the rest. Yes, you want to build the pot for when you hit and deny equity from trash over cards… but on a board this wet you’ll get more value from straights, or missed straight draws if you don’t always rep the flush
@michaelnguyen5100
3 жыл бұрын
Betting on the turn was a bad move imo but as he said, he got the miracle on the river. Very lucky
@robertosoto8691
3 жыл бұрын
Great video!!! Love the math!!!
@jklm.
3 жыл бұрын
its almost never what!??? i have to know!
@Brian-bg3sv
3 жыл бұрын
One thing about pot odds, you’re not getting the pot if it’s the losing hand.
@nickmullen402
3 жыл бұрын
Great hand!
@lostaccident
3 жыл бұрын
Sure this wasn't on pokerstars?
@hymnofashes
3 жыл бұрын
I disagree with Bart about the flop bet; there's value in bloating the pot with so much money behind; he can have dominated draws and weak one pair hands vulnerable to your ace overcard, which will pay on the flop but not pay across certain turns. If you get raised you can call this deep. I don't think a large flop bet is a good idea, however.
@paulpena5040
Жыл бұрын
It's 46 unseen cards not 44. You don't count villains cards they are part of the probabilities (just like you don't remove already folded hands).
@johnross4958
2 жыл бұрын
If you bet the flop I would raise 3 or 4 X every time with any pair. Most people then fold and never realize any equity. If you call my raise I still get to see at least one more card and usually 2..
@alexanderroberts8579
3 жыл бұрын
My 30 days almost up. It’s great stuff.
@GWrench9
3 жыл бұрын
Only if it was the 8 of diamonds 🤣
@nm499x
3 жыл бұрын
8 of diamonds doesn't change anything from the 3d.
@sean_haz
3 жыл бұрын
@@nm499x Unless villian decided to get go for a bluff with JQdd
@bijoyinvisible
3 жыл бұрын
Villain literally owned hero and got unlucky!. Be careful playing with villain.
@whopperjaw10
3 жыл бұрын
So the math on KJ was done as 9 outs, but there was no factoring in the diamonds. How exactly is that math done? Is it automatically assumed that villain only calls pre-flop with suited KJ? Would that then be calculated as 8.5 outs, rather than 9? If so, is that half out even significant enough to factor in?
@alexanderroberts8579
3 жыл бұрын
Not really lol
@matthewrenphrey7929
3 жыл бұрын
Assuming villain isn’t calling too wide preflop (calling KJo out of position would be too wide) then he should only call with suited KJ. You’re right because of diamonds it should have been 8.5 outs, but that’s only important in calculating the direct odds. We can still make calls that we are not getting the direct odds to make if we think we ever get paid off on future streets when our draw hits or we think on some rivers we could bluff villain off of their hand. So really 8.5 or 9 outs here doesn’t really make a big enough of a difference in my opinion.
@stevenjackson615
3 жыл бұрын
Hero played perfectly and hit his river card, obvious kj
@GotoyourhomeBall
3 жыл бұрын
Hero sized like a monkey on flop and turn, then got lucky.
@percyblok6014
3 жыл бұрын
Hero is GREAT for the game! Always look to get on his table.
@gabrielrockman
3 жыл бұрын
The bet sizing by both the villain and the hero, preflop, flop, and turn was horrible. But at least on the river he sized his bet properly.
@BigDaddyGee85
3 жыл бұрын
@@gabrielrockman Why was villians size on turn bad? He had crushed hero´s range by a mile...i agree if he had KJo that he could go bigger, but i mean he got the universe on that board...
@gabrielrockman
3 жыл бұрын
@@BigDaddyGee85 Because a bet that small has zero fold equity. You need to bet larger, otherwise you have to have 100% value and 0% bluffs in your range.
@sp-gt1mq
3 жыл бұрын
Turn bet was super weak. Sizing no bueno
@dandattola
2 жыл бұрын
QdXd pre river guess
@gonrico
3 жыл бұрын
Dumb question but do you just subtract the numerator from the denomenator to calculate the 3.4 to 1 thing
@Hudson810
3 жыл бұрын
Yes. 1 in 5 odds is 1:4 because 1 (part) +4 (part) is 5 (total).
@bkb04g
3 жыл бұрын
That turn raise is too strong for me. As played, I’m folding. I would check back flop and bet turn. If villain leads turn, I’m calling and playing rivers. I want to see my equity and we can always get him off underpairs with one bet. Hands that require multiple streets of betting to get to fold (like top two/set/straight/pair and oesd) I’m ok with letting me see turn and river).
@sean_haz
3 жыл бұрын
you need 17.8% equity to call the turn if villian has QQ, TT, 99 and KJ, all combos you have 20.46% equity, and you'll likely over-realize you equity as you will get paid off some percentage of the time on diamonds. If villian has some bluffs you have even more equity. So folding the turn the way this hand was played would be a mistake.
@jaybingham3711
3 жыл бұрын
Depending on table dynamics and other factors, it's not necessarily a bad play to be "picking your spot." As humans, our game doesn't take place in a mathematical vacuum. Not every close spot has to be looked up. Instead, it's the major miscalculations that need to be protected against.
@sean_haz
3 жыл бұрын
@@jaybingham3711 Well I think when people say "pick you spots" they are normally referring to situations where depending on what your opponents range is and how they play it on future streets its either a profitable play or a losing play. In this situation even in the worst case scenario it is a profitable play, if you needed 23% and you had 20% then it would be a situation where you could say "pick your spot", since you need your opponent to pay you off on a diamond.
@jaybingham3711
3 жыл бұрын
@@sean_haz That's a pretty narrow view of "PYS." Instead, I think most use it in terms of a broad array of factors including expectations of encountering better odds in subsequent hands. Maybe against an opponent who you have a read on or who is on tilt. This hand is a profitable play over a large sample size. Yet, it's going to miss a majority of the time. Sometimes, in light of the entirety of all the dynamics happening with a table, there can be an outsized impact with respect to taking on a drawdown at that particular moment. But there are certainly times when things are very basic and pot odds can be leaned on more exclusively.
@sean_haz
3 жыл бұрын
@@jaybingham3711 @Jay Bingham As long as you have cash on hand to rebuy you should never be giving up spots that are definitely profitable like this. At least I think that's the attitude you should have playing for profit. I'm not really sure what kind of table dynamics you mean?
@andrewwolf4963
3 жыл бұрын
played a house game last night lol more action playing 1/2 than 2/5 at the casino the swings i had were ridiculous, i got aces 3 times in 3 hours and lost all 3, two against the loose fish i go for, he had 5/9 suited on one flopped a flush i had Ace of hearts 🤷🏼♂️ i had 10s, J’s, Asx3 on the night lost all 5 hands and then the very hand after my third cracked aces i get 3s and flop quads with no action lol
@MrVibeCheck41
3 жыл бұрын
Sounds like a rigged home game bro
@nicks210684
3 жыл бұрын
Isn’t there some RIO from the fact that if 7d or Qd comes and villain shoves the river we’re going to lose our stack?
@nicks210684
3 жыл бұрын
Or indeed if you’re against KJd and Qd you’re getting stacked.
@craiggough3602
3 жыл бұрын
yeah probably call river 8 lol :)
@burkhartlaw1
3 жыл бұрын
Here's my question: what would the caller do if the river was the queen of diamonds?
@johnrivers9037
3 жыл бұрын
Lose money!
@percyblok6014
3 жыл бұрын
C'mon, REALLY? This caller is a gambler, calculated one, but a gambler. Definitely would be looking to be seated at tables with him regularly. He's GREAT for the game.
@burkhartlaw1
3 жыл бұрын
@@johnrivers9037 truth.
@gunsandgaragegear601
3 жыл бұрын
Discord link?
@thakurv1
3 жыл бұрын
I’m surprised dude check raised the turn with KJd.
@pot_kivach160
3 жыл бұрын
11:21 “…If he had KJ then H had 9 outs of 44”?! And he had KJdd! Still 9 diamonds out of 44 to draw?? What kind of calculation is this? 🤦♀️🐑😹.
@thakurv1
3 жыл бұрын
Queen of diamonds is no longer an out so 8 outs?
@Someguyonyoutube5000
3 жыл бұрын
3.89:1 I have the whole odds sheet memorized like the back of my hand. 1-22 outs for both turn and river.
@lawrencewright6977
3 жыл бұрын
If he had KJdd then it's only 6 outs left
@shawnenglish4286
3 жыл бұрын
When should I call with a draw?? Anytime I Damn well please! #Lag
@andrewwolf4963
3 жыл бұрын
i’m at the flop i’m guessing dude has Jacks or J10 AJ something with a J
@areufkingkiddingme
3 жыл бұрын
Ok
@brokefish9768
3 жыл бұрын
Well it is 8 outs to KJdd because Q brings in nuts.. but yea
@mattt5869
3 жыл бұрын
6 outs
@brokefish9768
3 жыл бұрын
What J can he have other than KJ? Lol how about QJdd?
@BigDaddyGee85
3 жыл бұрын
he dont raise that on turn i guess
@Toca374
3 жыл бұрын
What does “Rock” mean?
@CrushlivePoker
3 жыл бұрын
Rock means the person that one the previous hand has to straddle and it makes no difference the position. Usually action starts to the left of the rock, no matter where it is. In this case the rock was in the BB so the set up was normal with two blinds of $2 and $10
@pot_kivach160
3 жыл бұрын
@@CrushlivePoker lol…so, when a player (BB) wins 2.5bb (by default, everyone folded) which is $12 of which $10 were his, with $2 profit has honour to donate/straddle for $5? 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️👀…Ugh! Gulp. And he keeps doing that till at one point he tanks his hand b/c it is more profitable to lose it!? What a regulation. 🐑🤦♀️
@CrushlivePoker
3 жыл бұрын
@@pot_kivach160 your the only person in the world worrying about this
@pot_kivach160
3 жыл бұрын
@@CrushlivePoker lol…
@matthewwestcott9138
3 жыл бұрын
@@pot_kivach160 You miscalculated. This is 2-5-5, so the player has a profit of $7 (not 2) when he wins, and he's putting in a straddle of $10, not 5. He now has a live hand and the option in the next hand, for the cost of $3. Alternatively, he can fold in your scenario and lose $12 immediately. Why do you think anyone would do that?
@bf7837
3 жыл бұрын
Hero didn’t have the nut flush draw he only had Ace High Flush Draw on the Flop, A Straight Flush to the King would be Nut Flush Draw. Just sayin
@pot_kivach160
3 жыл бұрын
That’s a big sayin’!! Because, villain’s pocket KJdd, 8Jdd, 78dd, QJdd, and KQdd, would kick Qd, 7d, 8d, Jd, and Kd out of drawing cards for Hero. So, technically, he had only 4 outs. Which is 09 % chance to improve. Which is far below turn break-even line of 22%?! To conclude: NO call on turn. Or FOLD is the right move. H got lucky. Or poor V gotten ugly unlucky!! As simple as this.
@matthewwestcott9138
3 жыл бұрын
@@pot_kivach160 Dude that's not how you calculate the odds. You don't give him every single out that beats you, only 2 of them. Yes, he can have some straight flushes and you'll get coolered. But he can't have them all at once. It isn't 9% equity, because you're comparing 1 hand for the hero and several of villains range of hands. That's just... not correct. Edit: Also, in half of your scenarios he has any ace as outs now, because villain doesn't have a set or straight, just a pair. So hero picks up 3 clean outs in all of those spots.
@pot_kivach160
3 жыл бұрын
@@matthewwestcott9138 agreed. I did over calculating. Worst case scenario, H had 7 outs.
@mikeob6325
3 жыл бұрын
flop bet ok...turn bet CHECK......V maybe AQ but would not CR
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