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@bcb912
11 күн бұрын
I'm not a climber. I remember reading "K2" at 15 and knew myself well enough to know it would always be beyond my abilities. Sometimes when you know, you know. Wow. That was a deviation away from my original comment! I wanted to say that I love the way you tell these stories. You are honest yet always sensitive, blunt, balanced with real humanism. You're a good guy for this.
@romanesybel8956
11 күн бұрын
I am not at all an expert, but i think it is unfair how Anatoli has been treated. I understand that there might have been a cultural difference at stake here but for me he was one of the strongest and most heroic of the teams. I have a lot of slavic/eatern european friends and I can get how people can find them "cold" or even headstrong but he knew his limits and did his duty more than the other guides. He kept risking his life and deserved better than being publicly shamed and accused of negligence.
@mchandrashekhar4043
4 күн бұрын
Agree with you...Toli had his own style & Scott very well knew about this...Scott & Neal kept Anatoli out of most of decision making meetings in base camp
@reydelmetal2
11 күн бұрын
I have recently read the Climb, after having read Into Thin Air and watched a lot of videos and documentaries. I found the Climb surprising, very moving; not at all what I expected. I don’t know if the book tells the truth or not about the oxygen but I now suspect that a big part of the controversy with Anatoly comes from a deep cultural clash between him and the American climbers; not only in relation to his ideas about mountaineering but in general. (People from the USSR had been quite isolated for decades and were also quite different from Europeans). There were obvious communication problems with him because of this cultural clash and also the language barrier and this probably generated undeserved rejection towards him. It’s very sad.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
You are the second person who has mentioned culture, as well as myself. As an Australian, I'm quite often misunderstood by those from English speaking countries. We have a very different culture, even from our 'Kiwi Cousins' in New Zealand. I can't count how many times that I've been attacked in comments by those in particular from the US. If this is what it is like between English speaking countries, imagine the position that Anatoli was put in? I think there would be much professional jealously between Anatoli and the Americans. Anatoli was, in my opinion, a freak of nature for his mountaineering abilities. I'm sure that many would be jealous of this. It really hit home to me when it was mentioned that a translator was used in Anatoli's book, which can make things sound very different. If it wasn't for Anatoli, many more would have died. I'm grateful for what he did. As for the agreement between he and Scott about the use of oxygen, no-one can state what was agreed to unless every single discussion was overheard regarding the use of oxygen. Even if one conversation was overheard, that doesn't mean that others didn't follow. I refuse to damn one who saved lives and then sadly lost his own just a year later. Thank you for picking up on the cultural aspect.
@dilyaramarsh7770
9 күн бұрын
"Cultural clash", as you say, helped lives of 3 people. Soviet people have very high morals, sense of camaraderie, as opposite to european/American individualism.
@7phyton
9 күн бұрын
I think it's simpler. For decades (at least 70 years), whenever there's a well publicized mountaineering mishap, the public and some mountaineering pundits have always been intensely critical of whomever was the strongest climber on the mountain that day: Bonatti, Desmaison, Messner, now Boukreev. They always find some lame excuse to do that even when the actual facts compellingly demonstrate that that person went way beyond what could ever be expected to save people. Envy? Unwillingness to blame people who perished for their faults? Who knows, but it has been happening for ages in mountaineering.
@krisushi1
9 күн бұрын
@@7phyton The 'tall poppy syndrome'. Others take pleasure in cutting down those who acheive great deeds on any platform.
@plaidpaisley5918
4 күн бұрын
Beck weathers; Blind trust.
@sir_cornholio5
11 күн бұрын
Also, even though some of my comments are a bit harsh, sometimes only because I’m very passionate about this subject and all Climbing and mountaineering. I appreciate your channel your candidness your kindness, and everything else. keep doing what you’re doing. I’ll keep enjoying everything you do and support you.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
Much appreciated. Debate and disagreements are totally okay....it's when some individuals get personal and begin the attacks, then the line is drawn. I welcome your insight and opinions!
@jujudavis65
11 күн бұрын
Anatoli did not change the events on the mountain just because he wasn’t using O’s , the storm changed the events of preventing folks getting down when they lingered too long. Honestly for those who believe the mountain has the say well I guess in this case it’s true
@chebbohagop
11 күн бұрын
As sad, as hard as it is to realize, dear Rob and Scott, who both did NOT make their decisions with the realization that clients would die let alone themselves, we must be willing to attach part of the “blame” with them 😭
@alisonabedelmassieh9193
11 күн бұрын
Rob Hall's circumstances of death are heartbreaking, but his decision-making is baffling- not only encouraging Doug Hansen, but also telling Beck Weathers to stand and wait for him to summit. Especially baffling given the video clip of the meeting at Base Camp where he says he's prepared to be the one making unpopular decisions. Perhaps if he had survived, Adventure Consultants would have faced legal action from the families of those who lost their lives, as well as Weathers.
@Sue-uw2oi
11 күн бұрын
High altitude and exhaustion contributed to the bad decision making. Read Into Thin Air.
@davidpeters3857
11 күн бұрын
🥱
@tishkerrville8942
11 күн бұрын
@@Sue-uw2oi great 📘
@czarcastic1458
11 күн бұрын
They sign papers not holding the companies responsible for anything as it is a dangerous endeavor.
@ulthre
11 күн бұрын
@@czarcastic1458 Such waivers do not protect the companies in case they are found at fault. It only protects them against the outcomes of accidents. Rob Hall not enforcing his 2PM turn around deadline after having made clear at base camp how important it was is a very serious mistake, probably prosecutable.
@MizQue
11 күн бұрын
What we should have learned from this is, when you make rules on the mountain, don't break them.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
That's easily said, yet how can rules be enforced when at an altitude were the human mind is incapable of logical thought?
@sourgummiez
11 күн бұрын
I love how real you are and you don't hide your emotions. It still makes me cry when I think about that conversation Rob and his pregnant wife had 😢😢😢😢 The fact he was unsavable but could still speak to the one he loved more than anyone, it's just heartbreaking 😢😢😢 I found Into Thin Air when I was 14 years old and was Instantly obsessed with this story and like so many people, it's had a grip on me ever since. I think Rob and Scott really had the best intentions for their teams, it was a whole cluster fuck of conditions that caused such chaos
@corkycobon1481
10 күн бұрын
@@sourgummiez The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I can not argue that Rob and Scott had the best of intentions for their teams. That is obvious to see by anyone. What you could also see was ego and arrogance. EVERYONE paid a very high price for that ego and arrogance. Some paid for it and only got PTSD. A couple paid for it with lost body parts. Quite a few paid for it with their lives. Everest is one of the places on Earth that you ABSOLUTELY have to humble yourself because she will not allow you to climb if you do not. There is absolutely ZERO room for ego or arrogance on her slopes. Safety rules lower down the mountain became mere suggestions at C4 and above. Poor decisions lower down showed their awful results the higher up everyone got until it all collided at the intersection of ego, arrogance and Mother Nature. This whole climb was a slow motion train wreck from bottom to top and the only people that could have changed the whole outcome were Rob and Scott. Had Rob sent Doug back down when Doug started having issues out of C3, Rob would probably still be alive after this climb. If Scott hadn't worn himself out by playing porter lower down, he would have had the strength to get down from The Balcony. It is one thing to play fast and loose with your own life. It is another thing entirely to play fast and loose with someone else's life. Scott and Rob both did this and we are all still trying to figure out WHY.
@TheGotoGeek
11 күн бұрын
Thank you, Thom, for taking such an empathetic look at this incident. Too many people want to assign blame, or find fault with the various accounts, rather than trying to understand what may have been going through peoples’ minds that led them to take such tragic decisions.
@sharipazyck-gv2dv
11 күн бұрын
Thank you once again Thom!
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
It's my pleasure, and thank you for supporting the channel, it means very much to me
@M_Rasmussen58
11 күн бұрын
Your explanation of this tragedy is so very valuable to us who follow climbing in the Himalayas. Your expertise brings reality to the conversation. Thank you Thom!!
@jujudavis65
11 күн бұрын
Sorry one more comment. Your last remarks about Anatoli is making it sound like that everyone that is still alive from that fateful day and also many who weren’t there believes if only he used oxygen every life would have been saved, I don’t think it’s fair to put that on him alone, he wasn’t the one and only guide and certainly not for all the teams there!
@dilyaramarsh7770
9 күн бұрын
Absolutely!!!!
@mchandrashekhar4043
4 күн бұрын
Very True 👍
@AB-ys4yn
20 сағат бұрын
Yep, now the story begins to skew towards that Anatoli's oxygen thing... Ok, he was the guide but so was Scott himself and Neal and Sherpas some of whom I believe were specifically tasked with personal guide assistance. Lopsang was personally short-roping VIP client Pittman and not using oxygen too. What do we know next? Boukreev reaches the summit fist after helping to place the missing ropes(!!!) and spends 1.5 hours helping the others to reach the summit. Beidleman and Krakauer among others were the first to reach the summit. Boukreev (for well discussed reasons), Adams and Krakauer (not his client but was one of the first to reach the summit) begin descend leaving few Sherpas and Neil behind (No signs of the storm). Beidleman stays on the peak and spends prolonged time with Fox and Pittman while waiting for Scott's orders to begin descend (!) Scott is nowhere to be seen and although exhausted and past the 2pm turnaround time continues to push for the summit(!) Beidleman finally decides it is time to begin the descend with Fox, Pittman and others, with Lopsang and other Sherpa's help (clients are in the safe hands). Exhausted Scott meets but refuses to join them on the descend (potentially providing extra assistance to his clients if needed(!!!) and instead makes irrational decision to push towards the summit. Lopsang stays with him (less help for the clients (!) Beidleman continues to descent with exhausted Fox and Pittman and others who spent too much time at the peak when the storm hits. Mountain Madness clients and Beidleman are lost in the storm and can no longer walk. Storm clears a bit and Beidleman (+ guide form another team Groom and few others) set off to find help. Refreshed Boukreev leaves camp IV to save 3 of his clients (Fox, Pittman, Madsen). Essentially all of the Mountain Madness clients were saved and survived the storm. How is Boukreev guilty of endangering his clients by leaving early or responsible for Scott's death? Also it feels almost like Krakauer preferred to stay closer to the strongest guy Anatoli during the push for the summit and followed him on the way back to the camp.
@paulatripodi7534
11 күн бұрын
I can't blame anyone. All were undertaking an adventure where you need everything to go perfectly right in an incredibly dangerous place where things can and will go quickly wrong.
@PugFaceMusic
11 күн бұрын
Nice video. Well thought out and intriguing.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
It's always good to have you here!
@actchickcee
11 күн бұрын
In all of the videos and research I've done on this tragedy, it always astounds me how often the debate turns to blaming various clients for the loss of life. The one thing I get from every single account is that Hall and Fischer were good men who made some poor choices that day. I think if they'd lived they would be the fist to step forward and take responsibility. They were the leaders, their were the ones making decisions for their clients. It's tragic that they perished, their poor decisions don't make them bad people, but the buck stops with the leaders, and I get the impression that if they'd lived they would have owned the responsibility entirely..
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
I agree that there is plenty of blame to be spread between the clients, staff and the leaders. What I keep going back to, is that both Scott and Rob were not infallible. They were just as at risk from poor decision making due to the altitude that anyone else. They can't be blamed for the effects that the altitude had on them. Just due to being leaders, doesn't make them inhuman. When it's witnessed the effects of altitude on the body and thought processes, it wakes one up to how everyone is affected. Being a leader doesn't make one immune.
@peggyleadingham4528
11 күн бұрын
I don't fully understand how Boukreev having oxygen or not could have such an impact on everything.
@Mainzer74
11 күн бұрын
@@peggyleadingham4528 I believe because he needed to head back down almost immediately after summiting and thus wasn't available to help get the clients down
@Spike-sk7ql
11 күн бұрын
It wouldn't
@teijaflink2226
10 күн бұрын
If any human even was responsible it was more Rob Hall and Scott Fisher in that case.
@fedorpravov5372
10 күн бұрын
100% true
@Spike-sk7ql
10 күн бұрын
@@teijaflink2226 the funny thing is though, every one of Scott's clients that made the summit, lived. Every single one of Robs clients who reached the summit died. Except for Krakauer, but he wasn't really a paying customer.
@phillipsstanley
11 күн бұрын
Another excellent video. I just love to hear about the happenings up there when tragedy hits and common sense seems to go missing.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
Thanks so much....really happy you took the time to watch
@dianekincaid7074
11 күн бұрын
Great commentary and questions raised. One thing I come back to time and again is that each person on that mountain made a choice to be there. There should be no expectation of rescue when you’ve decided to put yourself in a dangerous situation. Those climbers who decided to go down rather than risk climbing to the summit are the ones who were the most responsible and considerate of putting anyone else’s life in danger to be rescued. The loss of so many lives is terrible, but that risk was no secret. Looking to blame anyone just shirks one’s own duty to be responsible for oneself.
@hawkeye98
11 күн бұрын
WOW you bring up something I’ve never thought about in the past. I’ve read every book I can find on this subject. I didn’t realize that The Climb was written thru a translator. I speak English and Arabic and I know sometimes when I translate from Arabic to English it comes across as very blunt but this is just the language. Now I wonder if this may be the case with some of the language going from Romanian (I believe) to English.
@TheGotoGeek
11 күн бұрын
DeWalt apparently approached Boukreev with the book idea, and then did a lot of work to gin up controversy. Krakauer says he was able to talk to Boukreev before he died, and made peace with him.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
I'm an Australian, yet many from other English speaking countries do not understand my culture, the way in which I speak, write or express myself. Imagine if a translator was then used to interpret what I meant? The mentioning of using a translator jumped out at myself to and I added this to my comment. A rather poignant point.
@dilyaramarsh7770
9 күн бұрын
Russian
@krisushi1
9 күн бұрын
@@dilyaramarsh7770 Anatoli is referred to being Kazakh. He even held Kazakhstan citizenship.
@thing_under_the_stairs
4 күн бұрын
@@krisushi1 Yes, but it's mentioned more than once in the book that his main language was Russian, as he grew up when Kazakhstan was part of the USSR, and all Soviet citizens needed to speak Russian. It's what was taught in schools and what all official business was conducted in. I'm assuming that it was much the same in Kazakhstan as it was in Ukraine at the time; I have Ukranian friends who grew up in the old days of the USSR, then moved here to Canada, and they say that they spoke about equal amounts Russian and Ukranian, learning English on their own time.
@jamesm3471
7 күн бұрын
I love Beck Weathers and his story. The man came down from Everest with something infinitely more valuable than a $65K summit selfie - a new found appreciation for his life and his loved ones and the inspiration to make a real change. To this day, Beck still refers to losing both hands and his nose as “a significant discount, seeing as climbing Everest these days can cost an arm and a leg.”
@kikimihaljevic6127
11 күн бұрын
Big support for Thom from Zagreb, Croatia🇭🇷
@franciehartsog1347
10 күн бұрын
Sometimes I think there are places we are not meant to be. I think about the accident in the ocean last year when Ocean Gate CEO, Stockton Rush, took four people into the depths of the ocean. All five died when the Titan Submersible. I am a clinical psychotherapist and find the human element in these stories to be fascinating. The lesson here is to never forget who is really in charge. Mother Nature, Creator, God. 🙏 With that being said, we know some people become addicted to adrenaline rushes. I personally keep my adrenaline rushes to roller coasters. Even they scare me! I am from WEST VIRGINIA and our mountains are high enough for me. A ski resort is on the mountain beside my families mountain. We have to drive dangerous roads in the winter. I have passed big SUV’s in ditches, witnessed cars going over mountains but I was never afraid. I reckon my Dad taught me how to drive in a blizzard. I do think there are people who go through life seeking an adventure because they feel a void deep inside. That makes me sad 😢 Peace doesn’t come from climbing a mountain. Peace comes from within. 🙏 Peace be with you, kind Sir. Thank you for the work you do.
@nathannewman3968
11 күн бұрын
I don't think any of your comments were an attack on anyone's character. You gave your honest, professional opinion about the circumstances of the climb and the storm. You didn't condemn anyone's character or villainize a group or individual. I found this video (and your others) incredibly insightful. The only thing I will say about Boukreev's claim that he did everything right and made no mistakes is, what else could he say? Any sort of introspective doubt he may have expressed would have resulted in someone suing him.
@phoebehill953
11 күн бұрын
It’s not so much that I can’t get enough of this story - it’s that I’m still wondering what the truth is about what happened and why. The fascination is how the story has changed and developed since Into Thin Air was published
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
I'm afraid that you're never going to know the truth, as no single person witnessed all that occurred during this disaster. We have to accept that there aren't answers to all that happens.
@corkycobon1481
11 күн бұрын
Scott and Rob's decisions lower down the mountain most definitely played out while at the top. Scott burned the candle at both ends lower down the mountain and paid for it with his life at The Balcony. Rob should have turned Doug around at C4 as Doug was already in distress before they even left camp for the summit. He should have been short roped down to BC. Regardless, you would have to be a cold hearted bastard not to be moved by Rob's call to his wife. Just thinking about it make me wanna cry from anger because Rob should have been there for his daughter but rash decisions left her fatherless and that, in my book, is not forgivable. I know Rob was trying to be a man of his word but at certain point, health and safety are more important than words or promises. I would not call Rob and Scott villains in this whole debacle as there is nothing productive to come from it. Personally there was too much chaos happening with the storm for anything other than sheer survival. There was a lot of bravery and courage shown on that mountain that fateful day by all involved but the absolute beast in this story is Peach Weathers and Col. KC. These 2 people are the true heroes in this whole story. Peach literally moved mountains and threatened people to get her husband, Beck Weathers, off that mountain and THEN you have Col KC pulling off some of the most difficult helicopter flying anyone has ever done to save Makalu Gao and Beck off that mountain. I am still in awe at how Col. KC pulled that off not once but twice that day. I truly believe that the powers that protect Everest also allowed Col. KC to make his rescues that day and no one can tell me any different on this. There was alot of things happening on the mountain that fateful day, 2 of them being ego and Mother Nature. Both of these can get you killed.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
My eyes are watery now, so I'll keep this brief. Thank you for mentioning those unsung heroes that never are mentioned in any other video or comment. Its okay for Rob and Scott to make rules at BC but even they are not invincible to the effects of altitude and what it can do to their decision making. I will never understand why Rob gave his life for a client, when his beloved wife and unborn daughter were awaiting his return. He knew that Doug was not capable of making the summit and returning. I can only put it down to the altitude affecting his mind that he agreed to take Doug up, 2hrs after the turnaround time. He still had strength to try and make it down himself, yet for some unknown reason he stayed with Doug. Rob was told by BC that a team was being assembled to reach Doug and to get himself down whilst he could. He couldn't do anything for Doug, so why did he stay with him? Doug knew the risks, just like anyone else. If it wasn't for Doug, both Rob and Andy Harris would most likely be alive. Andy's loyalty towards Rob just breaks my heart.😢
@sir_cornholio5
11 күн бұрын
Isn’t that extremely dangerous to linger for six hours? Are you kidding me? It doesn’t matter if he’s a guide he shouldn’t have to be put in that position as well as he told them before he started expedition that he would do it he could be without oxygen so that’s not his fault at all.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
Not on the summit....of course that would be nuts...but somewhere above the S Col and closer to where the clients were clearly struggling.
@thindigital
11 күн бұрын
@@EverestMysterywouldn't the right thing to do be to send a struggling client down with a Sherpa/guide?
@linmorell1813
Сағат бұрын
So moving especially Rob Hall’s message messages. What a man.
@alpenice1
7 күн бұрын
Watched Scott Fisher take a ground fall on a small un-developed crag near Lake Wenatchee just before he left for Everest. As I recall, he was taken to the hospital emergency room suffering a concussion and broken ribs. I always wondered how that affected his abilities on that fateful trip. I've never heard anything ever mentioned about that accident.
@vanzell1912
7 күн бұрын
Very few climbers have fallen as many times as Scott. He was known for it.
@thing_under_the_stairs
4 күн бұрын
That's extremely interesting, especially with what new research has shown about the effects of concussions being more serious and longer lasting than we used to think they were! I wonder now if Scott Fisher's brain was affected not just by that fall, but all the others he'd taken, in combination with extreme altitude?
@mchandrashekhar4043
4 күн бұрын
Interesting point...
@GoodieWhiteHat
10 күн бұрын
Beautifully and sensitively told. I love this channel. Someone experienced who knows ultimately there should be no dump by those who are on the ground and have the bravery of being warm and dry. All you give us is an analysis and a bit of a reprimand. I love the challenge of thinking differently with better information. Thanks for these great videos.
@franciehartsog1347
10 күн бұрын
Me too! ❤
@EverestMystery
10 күн бұрын
Thank you so much....I'm glad you feel that way and happy to have you here!
@jeffreybaker4399
11 күн бұрын
I know very little about climbing, but isn't having Viesturs, as part of a team with Breshear, "not liking the conditions up high" kind of like a mafia don suggesting that maybe in would be better if your face wasn't seen in town for a year or so? Edit: Great breakdown of the events, sensitive to human realities, good and bad.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
Do you follow everything that others choose to do? We are human beings with minds of our own. These very experienced leaders from Mountain Madness and Adventure Consultants were capable of making up their own minds. Weather forecasting in 1996 was not as reliable as it is now on Everest. They made their choice but unfortunately the weather came. They had no way of knowing. It wasn't only the weather that impacted this expedition either, yet many choices made.
@jeffreybaker4399
10 күн бұрын
@@krisushi1 That is an interesting argument. "Weather forecasting in 1996 was not as reliable". Isn't that a reason to be more cautious than a team might be today? "Yet many choices made". When my seven year old makes a mistake, I don't excuse it with, "that's okay. You made several other mistakes that got you in this mess in the first place." Absolutely agreed, for example, that turn around time was critical. They didn't do it. "Do you follow everything that others choose to do?" The advisers weren't some random climbers. Scott and Rob were well aware that Viesturs and Breshear were far more capable than their charges, yet these superior climbers had decided to not go.
@krisushi1
9 күн бұрын
@@jeffreybaker4399 I understand your point and have addressed other reasons elsewhere. My father would say to me when I was a child, "if I told you to jump off a cliff, would you"? I'll state again that Rob and Scott had extremely impressive resumes, look them up on Wikipedia to see how experienced they were. They felt that going for the summit when they did was the right choice. The others who did not agree, made their choices too. I have stood on top of a mountain next to the Eiger in Switzerland, which is at a higher altitude and in the middle of summer. The weather had been perfect all day with beautiful blue skies. Whilst I was overlooking a rather large crevice by myself, a white-out hit in only seconds. It came from the side of the mountain where I could not see. Before I knew it, visibility was shocking. Have you watched the movie 'Nordwand'? (It's free on YT). You'll also see in this, which is based on a true story, that weather is everything and you simply can't wait forever at Base Camp. You make the decisions you think are best. Rob and Scott believed that any bad weather had passed and continued to summit. Others on the mountain clearly felt otherwise. It's something that has to be a personal choice with the information at hand. Sorry to make this longer but you did ask.😉 It may have been having the two journalists with them that made their decision making a tad irresponsible. Just because Rob and Scott had much experience, it doesn't make them immune from them feeling the affects of altitude either. There was no reason for Scott to summit, as all of his team had summitted, yet he tried to keep going. I have to believe that in his weakened state from doing so much, that he really wasn't fully aware of what he was doing. It's much easier to enforce turnaround times when one is thinking clearly at BC. It's much different if impaired by altitude. Rob should have never allowed Doug to summit. It went against everything that he did the previous year when he made Doug go back down due to the time. Was Rob thinking clearly or did guilt also play a part? I can't begin to feel for all of those impacted by this decision by Rob, especially when Andy Harris died trying to help Rob after Doug had perished. Rob's wife and unborn child would never see him again, yet surely they had to mean more to him than a client from the US? Rob had been very strict with his rules, yet why this insane choice? As I stated in my comment, we can go over the decisions made during those fateful days and never find a solution. We can't know as both Rob, Scott, Doug and Andy are all dead. The weather never had a bearing on this initial decision that took these four lives. We must simply accept that high-altitude mountaineering is an extremely dangerous activity to undertake and there will be many more deaths over the more than 300 that have so far perished. I wish I could give you a better answer, yet no one person can know what occurred in those different areas where people perished. Despite Beck surviving, he should never have been permitted to climb so soon after eye surgery. Due to becoming snow blind, it almost took his life. It was only by some miracle that he got himself down to safety. The reason that we cannot take Jon Krakour's book literally, is because there was no way he could have been everywhere at once. Sure, he is an accomplished author, yet he critiqued when he shouldn't have. I'll finish on the oxygen usage by Anatoli. Even if another had heard Scott tell Anatoli that he was to use oxygen, we cannot know if there may have been other discussions on this issue. I have so many opinions to offer up on this that I could write a book too. If you haven't seen Nordwand, I thoroughly recommend it. Touching the Void is also worth the time. I'm glad that you're asking questions despite not being an expert on climbing. We can always learn valuable lessons.
@reydelmetal2
11 күн бұрын
I did find introspection and self-criticism in the Climb. For example, it says that Anatoly collected Yasuko’s belongings and was able to hand them over to Yasuko’s husband, to whom: “he apologized, saying repeatedly that he wished he’d been able to do more. As he spoke, tears ran down his cheeks. He said that he’d felt a personal sense of failure around Yasuko’s death, because he’d not brought to her the aid that he’d brought to Charlotte Fox and Sandy Hill Pittman. He’d made assumptions; he’d hoped for help that never came. He was sorry.” This may be a lie; but then again, so may be what others have written about this tragedy.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
I have not yet read The Climb, but what you have related brought tears to my eyes. As I have seen in other comments, including my own, I believe that Anatoli was misunderstood due to his culture. I can understand this as I'm always being misunderstood despite being from an English speaking country. Americans think they know Australians, yet it's far from the truth. Despite how close New Zealand is from Australia, our cultures are very different. Just imagine how Anatoli was demonised for being from a Baltic country? As not one single person was in all places during this 1996 Disaster, no-one can speak for everything that occurred.
@dilyaramarsh7770
9 күн бұрын
Why you think it was a lie?
@krisushi1
9 күн бұрын
@@dilyaramarsh7770 Everyone is capable of lying for many reasons, especially self-serving. I personally don't believe this story is a lie, yet we can only know for sure via Yasuko's family.
@Sigismund
21 сағат бұрын
I thought Anatoli was from Kazakhstan? Baltic countries border the Baltic Sea in Northern Europe (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania). Kazakhstan is in Central Asia.
@dilyaramarsh7770
19 сағат бұрын
@@Sigismund right. But on a bigger scale, he was a russian from Soviet Union. USSR had collapsed in 1991, just 5 years prior.
@coltseavers6298
11 күн бұрын
I will always look at this event as a - Perfect-Storm - of bad decisions made by many, many people. Ever since watching the 2015-Everest movie on HBO six months ago, I have become extremely obsessed with both this event, and the mountain alone. I talk to people at work about it, however they are unfamiliar with it. So I have subscribed here and look forward to more videos regarding this mountain and it's history. Human nature, and how they handle certain dangerous situations will always fascinate me forever.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
I'm in a similar position. No-one to discuss these subjects with, yet gain the knowledge for myself. No matter how many tragedies we continue to witness, the answers are not as easy to explain or understand. Each can be very different. I have been obsessed with the movie Nordwand from the first time I saw it. There are so many 'what ifs'. If only Tony Kurtz and Andrea Hinterstoisser had climbed the North Face of the Eiger alone, I truly believe they would have been successful. If only the other two climbers hadn't followed them and joined up as a team. One was injured and they all had to climb down. Even after the avalanche that claimed all lives but Toni Kurtz, he still wasn't out of the woods. We could say 'what if' the long rope that would have most likely brought him to safety hadn't have accidently dropped from the backpack of a rescuer, therefore having to use a shorter rope that wasn't long enough to bring him to safety. It was a miracle that Toni even survived that entire night hanging from the rope that had two bodies attached. Let alone how far he had made it to survival. If only for that shortened rope, he may have lived. I've stood near to wear Toni died and it breaks my heart. The thing is, we can't know all the answers, no matter how much we learn from past mistakes. Accidents will continue to happen, avalanches will be an ever present danger and of course human error. All we can do it the best we can.
@AuthorLaurieAnnSmith
7 күн бұрын
I have always been captivated by the 8000'ers stories of those who have climbed. I celebrate their victories and grieve their losses and pray for them on the mountains. I would have loved to climb Mt. Everest and K2 but it would never happen. I'm an armchair mountaineer living vicariously through those who climb. I love these stories and I am always sad when climbers don't make it and perish. I love the way you tell their stories with such compassion and concern. Thank you!!
@johnx-tx8qd
9 күн бұрын
I THANK YOU for not beating around the bush and addressing the elephant in the room head on. Like you said, I don't think anyone can question Anatoli's climbing ability or can question the heroics he showed going out to save people that night in the height of the storm. But if the people who beatified him would look closer, as a GUIDE, he made the mistake of not climbing with O2. He wasn't their for his enjoyment or to notch another summit on his belt. He was there being paid to look after clients and had he done his job and stayed with them on the descent, maybe things would have been very different for everyone.
@7phyton
9 күн бұрын
What microscopic shred of evidence exists anywhere that not using oxygen was a mistake? He was by FAR the strongest and fastest climber going up and down, fixed rope, handed off unused oxygen that was certainly helpful to the recipient. Other guides and clients who were using oxygen and ran out, or ran low, were suddenly seriously impaired, endangering themselves and everyone else. Both expedition leaders (Fischer and Hall) FROM THE BEGINNING established the principle that guides weren't expected to stay with clients. To me, that's unbelievably wrong, borderline criminal for an expedition leader, but that's how they ran the trips. The whole day was a completely unorganized free for all. That decision was theirs, not Boukreev's.
@jujudavis65
Күн бұрын
@@7phytonIt is just upsetting that folks believe the events that took place may have turned out differently if only he was using oxygen, to me that’s like saying the avalanche on Annapurna that took his life may never have happened if only he was using oxygen 😞
@tracycameron5099
11 күн бұрын
Rob Hall was a prince. He had told his friend he would get to the top this time. Unfortunately, promised, this time... He was begged not to leave his friend. How could he have? His wife is also a great person, I think, and did not hold any bitterness it seems. The conversations were full of unsaid but communicated anguish. Which drives home the tragedy of the whole day.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
Who would you deem closer to Rob? His wife and unborn child or a client from the other side of the globe? Doug was not Rob's friend. He was a client. Rob was far to kind hearted and wanted to make Doug's dream come true, yet not at the expense of forever losing his wife and unborn child. I believe it was the effect of the altitude and Doug begging for Rob taking him to the summit that screwed everything up. With Rob feeling guilty about Doug not making it again, he went against his better knowledge and succumbed to his client, instead of Rob telling Doug it was all over. Just remember, it was because of Doug's obsession that Andy Harris lost his life too. Instead of possibly one losing his life, three did and for what? Doug was the one that started this chain of events. He should have gained climbing experience on other mountains before attempting Everest. He simply shouldn't have been on the mountain.
@7phyton
9 күн бұрын
Without a doubt he was a fine person, very well liked by everyone. But I would not pronounce him as a "prince". He abandoned a client on a major climb, hours from safety, told him to stay put, and then decided to prioritize a different client who he had to have known was not going to survive the day, just to get that other person to the summit before he became immobile. Hall made no contingency plan whatsoever for Beck Weathers. He just abandoned him without any known second thought. That is neither a prince nor a competent expedition leader. Nor a worthy husband and father. Alas that fine human qualities are not enough to remedy these failings.
@krisushi1
9 күн бұрын
@@7phyton Beck should never have been given a permit to climb so soon after eye surgery. Beck was a mature man and should have gone down with John Taske and the others when they turned back. It sounds far to strange for Rob to simply tell Beck to stay sitting in the snow and await his return. There seems to be something fishy in this story. Someone suffering snow blindness at this point was never going to summit.
@EverestMystery
8 күн бұрын
Yes, that really drives a stake in one's heart to recall that conversation Hall had with his wife.....
@YunaYansa
11 күн бұрын
I love your videos and will continue to watch them all, but can you rethink leaning into the anti-Sandy Pittman nonsense. She is no more or less to "blame" than anyone on the mountain that day. She was villainised by the incredibly popular book by a journalist who saw her as a rival and perpetuated his personal opinions about her as fact. That is highly unfair, imo. She DID make several public thanks to Anatoly, yet everyone who wants to lambaste her leans into a statement made in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy that she may or may not have actually said (or said in the way or with the tone suggested in Into Thin Air). Nothing she did or was done on her behalf "caused" the tragedies and the "blame the silly little lady" trope is very tired now.
@EverestMystery
10 күн бұрын
Thanks so much for your insight and for watching the video. You may have seen my video on Sandy, and in it she receives no blame whatsoever for what happened that day: kzitem.info/news/bejne/qYt6tXiefKOYlY4
@WienGolf
11 күн бұрын
Thank you for your video and your honest words! I have been following reports and films about this mountaineering tragedy for a long time and, above all, I find completely uncritical portrayals of heroes about it quite inappropriate. Even someone who has done great things and died a rather tragic death can have acted irresponsibly or even stupidly in a particular situation and therefore be criticized. And this applies to Rob Hall in particular, but undoubtedly also to Scott Fisher and Anatoli Bukrejew, all legends of mountaineering. You are right to say that good leadership on the mountain and great commitment are no substitute for planning, organization, a sense of reality and responsibility for many other lives.
@backunit1
11 күн бұрын
love your videos. Great voice. OH! love the new outline included above, credits and characters and time. Solid.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
Thanks so much, I truly appreciate it!
@mettajennifer
11 күн бұрын
As I said on one of your shorts, it's possible Anatoli B. could have been on the autism spectrum. This is why his book would be mostly detailed observations rather than feelings, why he didn't really care for the interpersonal connections with the clients, why he "saved" the MM clients but left the AC clients - because that was literally his job. He was supremely talented and focused on one thing: high-alt climbing. Just something to consider when we look back and analyze the situation.
@jujudavis65
11 күн бұрын
I wonder if there was an exchange of words and egos between Hall and Fischer that nobody knew about before the Summit push that made them ignore their rules
@thing_under_the_stairs
4 күн бұрын
I've often wondered the same thing. Even a non-verbal battle of egos is fatal at high altitudes.
@jujudavis65
4 күн бұрын
@@thing_under_the_stairs I agree
@whitehawk23
11 күн бұрын
Anatoly using O2 or not means nothing at all. Why do you keep highlighting that? The truth is that those to blame are those who sought fame and fortune by exploiting the mountain. The tragedy is two fold. The lapse of decision making on Hall and Fischer’s part. The continuing tragedy is the lack of humility on the part of those who’ve covered this story.
@fedorpravov5372
10 күн бұрын
"Anatoly using O2 or not means nothing at all. Why do you keep highlighting that?" Great point!
@7phyton
9 күн бұрын
Total agreement.
@andreiniculae2871
11 күн бұрын
I’ve always failed to see where and why Sandy Pittman is considered so at fault for this string of events
@morbiddreams1
11 күн бұрын
From what I read because she they felt she shouldn’t have been short roped by lopsang who was supposed to help Ang dorjee rope the Hillary step. Because the ropes were ready it pushed everyone summit times back.
@davemcmullen6682
8 күн бұрын
Neither man failed ...Rob died trying to save Doug .Scott died assisting his clients... Imagine the criticism of Rob had he returned leaving Doug alone to die... Sometimes the captain has no choice but to go down with the ship saving others.These two men Rob and Scott have by highest respect
@mchandrashekhar4043
4 күн бұрын
Scott should have led from front & not come last...he knew he was sick & should have not climbed that day
@mchandrashekhar4043
4 күн бұрын
Scott died assisting his clients ? Am I missing something ?
@AshleySpeaks09
11 күн бұрын
I wfh and watched “Everest” randomly one shift. 20mins in I was so hooked! I’m from the south ive never even seen a mountain but I was blown away by the scenery and the commitment these people have to such a dangerous sport. Unfortunately Rob dropped the ball and the Fischer guy needed to be at home getting some rest. I think it’s fun for some ppl to go in on those two because for all their flaws they were physically superior men. I love looking at Scott lol!!! It’s a shame they both seemed like good ppl just too damn nice I wish Toli had more say so he prob would have told most of them don’t even bother!! I read his book, took a break reading about the Mallory expedition then starting “Into Thin Air”. I was talking about Everest all Labor Day my family was like girl what?!?! lol!!!! I’m so out of shape I can barely climb stairs but I was so motivated by Mrs. Namba, Charlotte Fox and Lene I decided to start hiking I would like to join a trekking club but I have to be able to keep up. Their tragedy has inspired me to be my best self. The Canadian lady too Shirya? Sooo gorgeous had such a great life I hate it went like that for her ppl poke fun at her too again she was a special person who messed up. Looks, career, loving husband but she had to conquer that mountain!!! These stories are fascinating I live on this channel now.
@kerryw1958
3 күн бұрын
A great, informative, well thought out video. Thank you for this.
@user-cw8hw8vo7g
11 күн бұрын
Leadership isn't about being popular or cool. It's about making and enforcing rules without fear or favour and if necessary riding over egos and basically saying "if you don't do this you're off the team". Are climbers known for being team players? I don't think so
@justinsmith4562
11 күн бұрын
You really have no idea.
@armphidiic2609
11 күн бұрын
I think your points are well made. Particularly the "unpopular" one towards the end. It is a guide's job in anything to be there for the clients and those that are less experienced. His decision to not use ocygen reduced that ability. It's that simple. It doesn't take away from what he did. But hiw much more could he have done if he'd had the oxygen? As said, we'll never know. But it's a very valid point and question.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
Even if Anatoli had of used oxygen, he is still only one man. No-one else bothered to help him and he did the best he could during the night. He saved lives that most likely would have died if not for him. Ask where the South Africans were??? It would have been of assistance if Anatoli had kept a bottle of oxygen with him, but we can't turn back time. Just be grateful for the lives that he did save that no-one else gave a damn about.
@7phyton
9 күн бұрын
Please state precisely how his ability was reduced. He was by far the strongest and fastest person on the mountain that day, all day and night. But somehow that's not good enough?? It's not possible for anyone to single handedly carry down, one by one, two whole expeditions worth of climbers. What EXACTLY did he not do short of that? Boukreev was an employee of Mountain Madness, and all clients and guides in that group except Scott Fischer himself (who basically committed suicide by exposure) survived pretty much unscathed (physically). Plus he saved a bunch of folks from the competing group, alas not including some people who were using oxygen but ran out. How on earth was his ability reduced? Total hero.
@krisushi1
9 күн бұрын
@@7phyton Totally agree!
@tracycameron5099
11 күн бұрын
Great job of telling this fiasco. I can't stand it! Totally totally unbelievable story. So much madness happened.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed it!
@dreamingofstarlight499
10 күн бұрын
I do agree that it was a culmination of alot of mistakes, and a very brutal storm that led to the deaths that day. I do have to disagree about Anatoli and oxygen use. He carried oxygen up from camp 4, and gave it to someone else to use < according to Into Thin Air, had been up early working re ropes and breaking trail and so on. I can argue that Anatoli going back down to camp 4 is/was a good thing, it was him acknowledging that he needed rest and he did check in with the rest of his guides. Ig he hadn't rested, he wouldn't have been able to go out into the storm later. (And even if he had stayed up and helped with his team, there was still Rob Hall's people who were stuck and dying.) I just think, we all have 20/20 hindsight now and he and everyone else did the best they could at the time, with the info they had. (ps we will never know for sure about the oxygen fights, the 2 people who knew are dead and everyone else surving has different opinions). Excellent video as usual.
@davidpeters3857
11 күн бұрын
Excellent content as always
@elizabethmarshall3558
11 күн бұрын
Thank Thom!! I've heard some other recent analysis of this disaster. I appreciate everything you touched upon and for wading into the nuances. Keep up the great work!!
@EverestMystery
10 күн бұрын
Thanks so much, I appreciate your support!
@thindigital
11 күн бұрын
Was this a mountaineering disaster though? I would say it was a commercial guiding disaster, the root cause of which was leading un-skilled or underskilled climbers up to heights where mistakes lead to death. It seems if modern weather forecasting ever fails during a summit push, and theres huge lines up high now, well, there will be another, much worse tradegy.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
It was the weather that turned this expedition into a disaster. Those who have no experience in climbing have been doing so for ages and they have to accept the responsibility if they lose their lives, although the Expedition Companies should not be allowing inexperienced climbers to take a chance. I agree that anyone without mountaineering experience should not be allowed on Everest or any other high-altitude peak. If it wasn't for the weather that impacted this expedition, many more would have been saved. Beck should never have been allowed to climb so soon after eye surgery. It's great that more advanced weather forecasting systems have been placed on the mountain, yet as you stated, if these fail, all hell can break lose with the excessive permits given out by the Nepalese Gov't. that cause the over-crowding on the mountain. I have no interest in climbing Everest with so many inexperienced climbers or witnessing the excessive garbage dumps. It's not for me.
@7phyton
9 күн бұрын
I agree it was a commercial guiding disaster, but I disagree that the root cause, or even much of a contributing cause, was the presence of underskilled climbers on the mountain that day. That tale has been told in print, but I don't think the evidentiary support for it is very strong at all (closer to lacking entirely). The root cause was a complete lack of leadership or contingency planning, which were 100% the responsibility of Rob Hall and Scott Fischer. Hall didn't provide enough oxygen; moreover some was quite clearly taken from the cache by another expedition. There was zero, absolutely zero attempt by the group leaders/company owners to keep people together, or to assort them by rate of ascent/descent. Zero clarity on what the guides were supposed to do. Everybody, guides and clients alike, just wandered up randomly. No contingency plan for what was supposed to happen with Beck Weathers other than to stand in the snow for another day or three until Rob returned...which he was never ever going to do because he decided not to return at all but to stay with another client who was obviously not making it back alive. The other guides did their best, but there was no real plan at all. Even on a casual half day hike in nice conditions, we make sure somebody is running sweep, somebody is keeping the pace reasonable for all participants, and making wise decisions. These highly paid "leaders" did not do any of that. All of the people that day were totally capable of making it up and down safely, with the possible exception of Weathers who was subject to a vision issue that might have been predictable. Knowing that, Hall should have sent someone back down with him right away that there was a problem. But he didn't have spare personnel or a plan for how to make use of a smaller guiding/sherpa team that would result if someone took Weathers back to safety. Lack of skill or even physical fitness played no role. The late hour and totally expected storm (should have been - same gales had blown up mere hours before they all departed) did.
@melissaeden1219
11 күн бұрын
I appreciate, and agree with, your analysis!
@schwabra
7 күн бұрын
I guess my opinion would be this: This really was the infancy of what would become corporate climbing of Everest. Hall and Fischer were literally setting the standards because they were the experts. So in this environment you add competition between them, and you get some decisions that were riskier than they would have made in hindsight. The choices were not outside of the expectations because there was no mutiny from teammates until it all went beyond the point of changing their minds. The greatest part is the sacrifice and actions which would make the tale worth the telling. Even today I feel that people fail to give the mountain or mother nature the respect it deserves. There will always be dangers and cost often determines how much safety people bring with them. And finally, the summit or your safety should never be considered guaranteed in such an extreme environment.
@EverestMystery
6 күн бұрын
Love your take on this. It’s true, climbing Everest is no joke, and people really need to respect the mountain. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment!
@djohnson9083
10 күн бұрын
I’m not finished watching the video but I want to comment now so I don’t forget - what you said, about people being human and making decisions - so accurate - and the difference between Jon’s book and Anatoly’s book - so spot on. Very, very insightful and thoughtful analysis.
@seanyancy1809
10 күн бұрын
Outstanding story and intriguing from all points of view. Thank you Thom.
@EverestMystery
9 күн бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it I truly appreciate it, and as always, thank you for your support!
@lindasd7591
10 күн бұрын
Thk you Thom, for these presentations! They are always interesting, and i always learn something new!
@dks13827
11 күн бұрын
I dont climb.. but if I did I would turn around, and live.
@greggorsag9787
11 күн бұрын
If one views client safety as a priority, which is the premise of criticism of Boukreev for not using oxygen, it seems decisive that all of Fischer’s clients survived intact. It might be argued that the teams were operating together and thus guides assumed duties to the other team’s clients, but I’ve never seen reporting or evidence of such an agreement. It may be inferred from convention or basic morals, perhaps, but those arguments are complex and uncertain, and seem unfair in those extreme and fluid conditions. As you point out, the Hansen decision likely cost three lives, and possibly Namba’s, since Harris and Hall weren’t there to help her. Weathers survived, but suffered significant injuries that might have been avoided if guides had returned to him on time. As for Boukreev turning Fischer around, that does not appear to have been his duty or responsibility-they were peers, and Fischer was even Boukriev’s employer. It seems unclear that he could have persuaded Fischer not to summit. Finally, it does not appear likely that Fischer would have survived whether or not Boukreev had oxygen-he was a great climber who had summited previously without oxygen but showed evidence of medical problems before the climb. His fate was likely sealed before Boukreev could have intervened.
@FoolsDiary
11 күн бұрын
I read the Climb, I haven't read into Thin Air... I saw him do an interview and he came over as being unpleasant to most of Scot's team.... He was criticising the guides, the climbers and at the same time he had sat in his tent as folk died. Not saying he should have gone out but he was certainly scapegoating folk in that interview. I kinda thought he was deflecting maybe? I don't know but it put me off reading his book. It was sad that not only did the team leaders make some decisions that turned out to be so wrong but the mountain threw that hideous weather at them at the same time. Had the storm not happened maybe the decisions would have not lead to the deaths? You been up there Thom and I 100% haven't (in body lol) Its a horribly bad place to be in a storm...... Its bad enough when not in a storm I suspect. Who's fault was it all..... I would never blame anyone in this type of thing as so much swung against them when that storm came in. In such a hostile environment I think making bad choices might be easy to do? Obviously they should have stuck to the turn around time BUT I think the cold, the time spent up there etc may be the real problem when a storm comes in. I feel so much for the families that lost loved ones that day, it must be so hard for them.
@steveherrmann456
6 күн бұрын
Very well spoken!!!!
@smolski666
11 күн бұрын
Can you make a video about the south africans and their story?
@justinsmith4562
11 күн бұрын
Did you not watch the video? They don’t have a story, they hid in their tents and turned off their radios.
@smolski666
11 күн бұрын
@@justinsmith4562 of course they have a story. the team was put together through a competition, there are lots of conflicts and intrigues, and one team member got "lost" and died during the descent under strange circumstances. maybe you should read up on the topic before making a comment like that :)
@tinadenning3186
11 күн бұрын
Don't forget Mike Groom or the rest of the guides.... the danger the leaders put them in with no walkie talkies and as Beidilman said that he didn't feel he could turn people around.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
Yes, this is discussed and Mike Groom mentioned (in titles) - thanks for watching
@robschachter-rj2uo
11 күн бұрын
Obviously tragic - Anoroli expressed concerns about the climbing skills of the clients. There were people on the mountain who shouldn’t have been there including krackauer
@EverestMystery
10 күн бұрын
@@robschachter-rj2uo Jon Krakauer, of all the clients on the mountain, had more mountaineering skills and technical abilities by far than any other clients on the mountain. He even helped fix ropes with Boukreev, Beidleman and Harris... He was also the second person to reach the summit. He definitely had the chops to be on that mountain.
@ghtaboma
11 күн бұрын
You’re right, it wasn’t the one thing that caused this disaster. It was the lining up of all the holes in the Swiss cheese, a term used in dissecting air crashes.
@emmahowitt241
10 күн бұрын
thank you, very compassionate appraisal
@user-xz8ft5xf7w
19 сағат бұрын
Hall's decision to continue to the summit was obviously catastrophic, had he turned Hanson around, perhaps most everyone not named Hanson, live to breath another day!
@EverestMystery
17 сағат бұрын
Yes, for sure....quite a sad story... Thanks so much for watching!
@jamehofmann5855
11 күн бұрын
Hey, sorry a bit off topic but I recently saw your Nat Geo documentary on finding Sandy Irvine. Do you have any video's on this channel covering that? I also checked out the band King Gizzard you mentioned when I commented on your last video. I would recommend the band Tool if you like psychedelic prog rock. Cheers.
@somahikes647
3 күн бұрын
Love to see that Jolly Gear Sun Hoody!
@EverestMystery
2 күн бұрын
They're the best....thinking of seeing what the next batch reveals for another purchase!
@somahikes647
2 күн бұрын
@@EverestMysteryI work for LiteAF. We collaborated with Jolly to make Fanny Packs. I make them all, right here in the US.
@EverestMystery
2 күн бұрын
@@somahikes647 that is FANTASTIC! My wife and I are big fans of the brand...very cool you're working with them!
@gimlikater6773
7 күн бұрын
Thank you very much for this deep inside and analysis of that tragedy. I read "Into thin air" a while ago and also "The climb". I also saw Anatolis book as a addition to Jons. There are few things that are of with Krakauers view of people, but it is his view. Every member of the 1996 groups has their point of view and it would be exciting to learn more about side of the story. I also read some conversation between Jon and Lobsang Sherpa. Personaly I think Rob Hall mad the biggest mistakes that day. I understand some of his reasons (Time, clients, Doug ...) but this mistakes started the whole tragedy. Also his mistakes are a result of the competition with Fisher, who also mad mistakes but he had the better climber under his clients. Anatolis decision to climb without oxy was wrong but he did not cause the tragedy, he could have prevent some of it, but Rob and Doug would still have been up there. Everybody made mistakes during that climb. Andy, Lopsang even Krakauer ... Hopefully future climbers will learn from this tragedy. Will there be a video about Ian Woodall and this team? Their story is tragic too, even for other reasons. Then again there is the death of Bruce Herrod, I feel that he often gets forgotten. Woodalls lies and refuse to help is another inside of human behavior during such a disaster. Thanks again for your work.
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
The first thing that came to mind before starting to watch this video was the impact the two journalists had in the decision making of both Scott and Rob. It doesn't matter what their previous climbing achievements were, every time is different. We can go on asking 'what if' for the rest of our lives, yet all we can do is speculate. Personally, I do think that having Jon Krakour and Sandy Pittman on the teams caused both Rob and Scott to make decisions that they probably wouldn't have made if the journalists were not present. It continues to baffle me why Scott continued on to summit, despite being after the turnaround time. Could it be that it would make a better story if the entire Mountain Madness Team had summitted instead of just the clients? There was no-one present to prevent Scott from continuing up towards the summit. It was clear that Scott wasn't thinking in a rational manner or he would have turned around. His entire team had summitted, so why did he need to? It's not as if he didn't already had a very impressive resume in this field, so why continue to summit? Then, we always have to remember that our reasoning and thought processes will never be as they are at such an altitude. At least Rob was filled with guilt about Doug not summitting the previous year and wished to grant him his dream. Again, one can't think logically at these altitudes when feeling overwhelmed with other emotions. If one doesn't have the strength to order a client or employee to do as they say, they shouldn't be in this position as a leader. Doug had no right to demand that he got to the summit and Rob should have had the strength to tell him that it was too late. Due to Rob allowing his client to dictate the terms, it cost them both their lives and just as sadly, Andy Harris. It frustrates me that Rob refused to save himself and return to his wife and unborn child. They meant more to him than a client from the other side of the globe. He was told that a team was being assembled to reach Doug and to get himself down, yet he refused. We will never know why, as we can't ask Rob. I find it strange that Rob would have told Beck to stay below the summit due to his eye sight diminishing and wait for him to return. I can never understand why Beck didn't go back down with John Taske and the other two when they came across him sitting in the snow. Beck shouldn't have been permitted to climb so soon after eye-surgery in the first place. It was by sheer miracle that Beck even survived this expedition. We can never know for sure what the agreement was between Scott and Anatoli in regards to the use of oxygen, unless this entire conversation was heard and any others that may have ensued afterwards. Sure, things would have played out for the better if Anatoli had of been using oxygen - but he wasn't. I will not damn him as I was not present and neither was Jon Krakour in every place on that mountain at all times and therefore cannot possibly comment on all that happened. What we do know is that Anatoli saved lives that otherwise may have also died. Another thing we must remember when critiquing another, is their culture. Despite being Australian, many from the US etc. cannot understand my culture and how I speak, write or express myself. We are all different. As for many disliking the way in which Anatoli wrote his book, did anyone think that the way he told of what occurred was impart due to his culture? He was being called a villain in a best selling book by Jon Krakour and I can understand why Anatoli would feel that he needed to defend himself. Just because he didn't word it as an American, etc. would, doesn't make him a bad person. We can go over this tragedy time and time again and never be able to tie it all up in a neat little bow. There will always be questions which no single person can ever answer, as no single person was in all places on Everest during this disastrous expedition. No matter how often we go over such tragedies such as this 1996 Disaster, David Sharp, Joe Simpson in the Peruvian Andes, Toni Kurtz on the North Face of the Eiger, Mallory and Irvine, there will always be questions that we can never know the answers to. How many times do we need to go over everyone's story involved in this 1996 Disaster? We'll still end up with differing points of view, just as we have now. All that climb mountains or engage in any dangerous activity know that there is the possibility that they may not emerge alive. You're fooling yourself otherwise. My heart breaks for my 'Kiwi Cousins' who lost their lives, especially for Rob's wife and the daughter he never met. How much I admire Andy Harris whose objective was to somehow help his dear friend to live, yet perished himself. Sure, we've learnt lessons from what occurred, but should we continue to re-hash the same story when there are so many more to tell?🇦🇺
@jhentoniii
10 күн бұрын
Just came across your videos, in looking to do a trek to Everest Base Camp. Your content is fantastic. Just one question, I have watch a lot of videos on the 1996 disaster and during one of those videos, it is mentioned that extra oxygen bottles may have been stolen from the south summit that could have been used by Fischer and Hall. Is this something you have come across
@EverestMystery
9 күн бұрын
Thanks so much, I'm glad you found the channel. I personally have never heard anything about bottles of O's being stolen. Unless that info is directly attributable to quotes from someone who was there, ie primarily guides like Beidleman & Mike Groom., I'd doubt very seriously that anything was stolen. But, it has happened before on the mountain and will happen again. All that said, O's near the South Summit were there, and because of altitude disorientation, one of the guides thought they were completely empty....but they were actually full. So, essentially, the O's were there. Cheers, keep me posted on your journey to Everest Base Camp!
@tracycameron5099
11 күн бұрын
I agree, never let this die. Shakespearean material.
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
All the way....you nailed it! Thanks for the support, it means so much
@krisushi1
11 күн бұрын
@@EverestMystery How do you propose to find all the answers to this disaster? No one single person was in every place that can tell you all that occurred on the mountain and during conversations at BC. How can we ever know for certain who is telling the truth? Due to so many who have died, we will never know what they were thinking or why they made the decisions they did. By re-hashing this story over and over, it will not lead you to the truth, only more speculation. Sometimes, there simply aren't the answers available to come up with exactly what happened and we need to accept this.
@EverestMystery
10 күн бұрын
@@krisushi1 We'll never find all the answers....at this juncture, the question of how do we find all the answers is rhetorical. It's a fascinating story, which leads seekers to look into their own hearts and souls for insight. That's really all I guess for why the story is so enduring to me. Thanks so much for watching!
@krisushi1
9 күн бұрын
@@EverestMystery It certainly is a fascinating story and I hope that lessons can be learnt. My mind is like a sponge and I soak up knowledge. My problem is wanting to know the answers to so many questions. At least I can admit to myself that this will never occur. It continues to break my heart when I go back over this story, most especially Andy Harris sacrificing himself due to his loyalty to Rob. I watched Touching The Void and Nordwand just days ago, yet again. I would dearly love for you to create a video about the Eiger tragedy and the heart-wrenching story of Toni Kurtz. Thank you for your wonderful Channel and all of the work you do.💖
@EverestMystery
8 күн бұрын
@@krisushi1 Thanks so much, I'm really happy you're here and enjoying the content!
@braininjurydiy
11 күн бұрын
Do we know if people have gone past the turn around time and actually made it back?
@EverestMystery
11 күн бұрын
Absolutely, one of my favorite Everest photos ever is of Doug Scott on the summit as the sun set...about 6pm....he and his partner slept not far from the summit and made it back down the next morning. Also, here is another amazing Brit, Stephen Venables, who summited in 1988 without O's, slept out not far below the summit: kzitem.info/news/bejne/mpilyYV7n3ajnH4
@lauratroxel24
11 күн бұрын
Also, Mark Whettu.
@user-xz8ft5xf7w
18 сағат бұрын
Very little was mentioned regarding May 11, the break in the storm. This was relatively early in the day and lasted 4-6 hours, nobody attempted to reach Hall during that window! Seems to me those on the mountain had already determined he was dying up there and well before the storm subsided! Yup, for those who were close by and did nothing, that's something they've had to live with!
@Becky_G_
6 күн бұрын
It's fascinating to me that people have the drive and desire and fortitude to attempt to conquer mountains. I'm not mentally built that way and so find it extremely intriguing in others. Having said that, you can see I'm only speaking from logic and not experience, but don't let egos or summit madness or the money you spent take your life. When in doubt, turn about. I would love to know how many of the deceased had a bad gut feeling? I'm in a big believer in trusting your intuition and your gut.
@jacksonripholmes3236
10 күн бұрын
I am 20 minutes into video, but you've already convinced me. Priority # 1 -- survive events such as catastrophic weather -- was not taken seriously enough. Insufficient Safety Planning.
@cemrebirand8360
8 күн бұрын
If the sherpas can do without oxygen , so can Boukreev
@mhrgall
2 күн бұрын
oh man :-( balling here😞
@santbr
9 күн бұрын
I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW rescuing bodies is extremely dangerous and sadly not worth the risk but I wish every single body up that mountain could go back home to their loved ones for a dignified and proper burial. 🙏🏻🙂↕️
@scds1082
11 күн бұрын
to my understanding, this expedition was Scott Fischer's first time leading an expedition, so maybe that explains his lack of leadership skills...or maybe he was a great climber but not a good leader...the two don't always go together
@susannah1066
11 күн бұрын
Interesting analysis-however I would hate to see a day-when they ban things like this. In Australia we have too much of a nanny state. Here's an example-mother in Adelaide was distracted talking on her phone-stroller ran down the river bank and the baby drowned. They blamed the pram and mandated handles [for the wrist] on all prams. Not many mothers actually use them-as you're meant to be holding the pram and paying attention.
@rvander7070
10 күн бұрын
SCOTT FISCHER TOLD ANATOLI TO GO BACK DOWN AND PREAPRE FOR THE CLIMBERS!!!! AND WHY WAS SCOTT INSISTENT ON GOING TO SUMMIT?
@fedorpravov5372
8 күн бұрын
Many people keep asking this question, the only Scott Fisher probably could answer. Maybe personal ambitions, maybe to proof to himself that being one of the strongest mountaineers he could do it. Maybe ... We will never know
@fedorpravov5372
10 күн бұрын
Instead making my own comment I d rather copy/paste one of the comments below which sounds perfect to me and which I totally agree. "Anatoly using O2 or not means nothing at all. Why do you keep highlighting that?"
@MrDlanglois
11 күн бұрын
7:34 7:41 Why was the guide so far ahead of Hanon? Bad guiding. Fisher bad guiding, sad, sad too.
@shamandave
10 күн бұрын
at the end of the day wether boukreev wanted oxygen for himself or not is beside the point.imo once you step on that mountain its every man for themself.they all fully knew the risks and you have zero right to expect anyone else to risk thier life to save you when you put yourself in a situation like that.I havent read any of the books but have seen the movie and I got very angry at the scene where rob hall got them to call his pregnant wife while he was on the other side of the world dying.I found it incredibly selfish he thought it was a good idea to climb that deadly mountain when his wife was pregnant and showed how skewed his prioritys were and it not only cost him his life but caused his child to grow up without a father and his wife without a husband.
@7ontheroadagain7
6 күн бұрын
I’ve just watched some of your videos : incredible / miraculous .. I believed in chris ; into the wild. I believe in all those through nature / mountain climbing going alone are seeking something. I’m a climber and lived alone in the Amazon jungle ( Iquitos -Cusco amongst other world places (where I came close to dying (I was in a coma for 10 days nearly 10 years ago after too many traumatic situations , too many war zones and suicides I witnessed ( I’m israeli /Scot) I gave up, gave in :240 tablets later and a liter of vodka ; only one guy managed to save my life and wasn’t even told I lived .. I did see the other side . I know my G-D , but I was weary, tired of the pain of living in such a broken world.. so I actually chose a second chance within my coma . I could have let go. 10 years on and I still question why I did : second chance and yes I still counsel PTSD victims in the Middle East . But I’m no more at ease with life , I still would prefer ‘no society ‘ a second chance isn’t always easier but it does make you stronger and I’ve never lost touch with my creator ! G-D bless u all. Reserve your criticism until u yourself have been through such moment that drives you to take such decisions or to take such risks alone in the wilderness . Not many people understand the power of the mountains or the draw to the north from Canada to Alaska. You either feel it or you Dont . What an amazing person you are !! 😅I’m glad I found your channel .
@EverestMystery
6 күн бұрын
Thank you for your incredible message. I'm honored that you visited the channel, and that you took the time to tell your story. I lost my brother to suicide in 2005, and have done immeasurable research to gain insight into it, and have long been obsessed with NDE experiences. If you read this, I would truly love to connect with you and perhaps interview you about your NDE and your experiences, if even for my own personal growth. If you go to the about section of the home page of the channel, my email can be found there. It'd be such a pleasure to connect with you. Godspeed. And, thank you
@dluelmo
10 күн бұрын
I agree with everything you said in this video. It points out that the human condition makes us vunerable, regardless of skill, talent, or good intentions. The leaders are the ones who are ultimately responsible. The squabbling about who remembers what, and who should have done what, simply is negated by the fact that it all happened in the deathzone, where mental and physical competense is compromised. Thanks for your video.
@jamesmichaels4979
11 күн бұрын
Despite all the mistakes, If there was no storm, all the mistakes would come for nothing because everyone would have made it back ok
@allanfrederick8705
11 күн бұрын
Thats like saying "If I had not drank those 6 beer and passed that SUV on the inside, Johnny Gaudreau and his brother would not have died". It is irrelevant.
@StanStanley3
11 күн бұрын
@@jamesmichaels4979 except Rob Hall did receive reports about impeding storm (something Krakauer didn’t mention in his book). He wanted to stick to May 10th summit attack date because previous ascents on that day were successful. Had the leaders stick to the turnaround time of 1 or 2PM most, if not all, climbers would have probably made it out alive. But Hall was under pressure to get people to the summit, as in 1995 he didn’t manage to get anyone up, turning everyone around before summit, at much better weather conditions no less. With journalist present on his team he wanted good press and not getting anyone to the summit again would have made a blow to his business. It’s hard to speculate as to why exactly some decisions were made by the leaders (Hall and Fischer), as they are both dead. But it does look like they judgement was severely impaired by the altitude, which ultimately cost people lives
@tinadenning3186
11 күн бұрын
Anotolio went down and left Beildelman with all the clients, his first guiding AND he passed S out and saw how far he was.
@angelaaz6282
10 күн бұрын
I believe that the leaders were warned of an oncoming storm but decided to climb to the top of Everest anyway! Plus the leaders didn’t even adhere to their own mandated turnaround time. Sadly their own and other’s deaths were the result of this negligence
@karyn552003
10 күн бұрын
Someone wrote a book stating this very same thing. Its an interesting book.
@pindrop9536
10 күн бұрын
I think our view is coloured somewhat by the fact their were two teams (loosely combined) climbing the mountain. As a thought experiment, imagine what the story would have been if there had only been Scott's team- I would venture it would go something like, Scott made a bad decision as the leader and sadly died, everyone else survived and Boukreev's actions were heroic. However, this judgement is clouded by deaths on another team.
@user-xz8ft5xf7w
19 сағат бұрын
Completely disagree regarding Anatoli! To say his decision to forego oxygen was the reason he left the summit so he could get warm and give tea to the customers, is ridiculous! Oxygen or not, above 8,000, everyone is effected. The 2 videos reiterate this. He saved at least 2 people and received barely any help, certainly none from Krakauer!
@mchandrashekhar4043
4 күн бұрын
Also Scott 's Guides were not having radios on them on Summit day...crazy decision by Scott...Cost Cutting ??
@andrejslukins5284
7 күн бұрын
It is senselessly to disput who was right, who wrong. Who take right decissions and who not. First of all in respect to those who passed away until this day. I think it is destiny. If you are doomed to die on the mountain so you wan't hang yourself. I really and deeply believe that everyone acted on the best of conscience. Let them all rest in peace and save them in our memories
@jbfrom503
11 күн бұрын
It was said that May 10th was the day because of Rob's previous success on that day.
@jameshale5331
4 күн бұрын
I'm also a non-climber and as such not qualified to give an opinion having never been in that position, but having read Krakauer's book anyone who selflessly attempts to save another is a hero, like every firefighter or anyone going in harms way for the benefit of another. I think everyone should be on comms, and o's, but I think it should be made absolutely clear before dollar one gets spent and step one made: there is a great chance the client won't be coming back, if you're not at a certain altitude by a certain time you need to consider your own life and turn around and lastly are you willing to pit the lives of others against the odds you'll make it up and back down? All in all great vid!
@EverestMystery
4 күн бұрын
Thanks so much for watching and for the great comment! I appreciate your insight and happy that you enjoyed the video
@guillaumeshearmur656
Күн бұрын
I can't remember the different teams and who lead which, but non of Bukreev's team (apart from the leader) died that day. Not only that, but Bukreev had climbed Mount Everest a fair few times previously, ALL without oxygen. By no means a novice on this climb. Being able to move quickly is what allowed him to save the lives of many climbers that day. Also, Krakow is well known for exaggerating stories and bending the truth (Into the Wild is another example of this to his take on the Everest expedition).
@asfandyarwazir5064
7 күн бұрын
'in close proximity with scot'? And at the same time with clients? Makes no sense! A better ratio of client to guide would perhaps have helped but there is something seriously wrong with how mountains have been commercialized. As someone from the north of pakistan and an avid hiker i have seen great many people who shouldn't be there! By the way love your commentary and the research that goes into it! Keep it up
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