The Triforce origin likely came from the Hojo Clan during Japan's Warring States period. This is due to a fact that the Hojo Clan used the "Three Triangles" similar to the "Legend of Zelda" Triforce as their Clan Mon or Insignia.
@nancybielen4842
5 жыл бұрын
The hojo clan
@Scorpio--
3 жыл бұрын
Hojo clan were Zelda fanboys.
@Blackwolfninja89
10 жыл бұрын
So whoever has the Triforce tattooed on their bodies, they basically have the Hojo family crest on them. Go figure :)
@Siorse
9 жыл бұрын
+Aaron Rainge The Hojo would be proud I'm sure!
@Blackwolfninja89
9 жыл бұрын
Indeed
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Swords and Circuity by Neal Hallford, and Roleplaying Mastery by Gary Gygax are two books I personally own. Designing Virtual Worlds by Richard Bartle is primarily about MMOs but it contains a wealth of info about roleplaying game design as well.
@AvalancheReviews
11 жыл бұрын
I love this series, good to see it back!
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
To clarify, a "character level" is just a parameter that defines a new threshold of power. In a standard leveling system, the stats are distributed automatically based on classes but some games allow you to select what stats to increase by giving you a "stat point" pool (ex. Ragnarok Online). Chrono Cross is a variation in that beating bosses unlocks a new threshold, but fighting other battles has a chance of triggering an option for stat bonuses to increase for characters. So it's a variation.
@erick2494
11 жыл бұрын
I remember learning about this from Total War. Made sense too, because the Hojo were always the best faction to play as.
@NinjaNezumi
11 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the research you did, especially in an era when so few people actually try to look things up. :D nice job.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Final Fantasy 2 is also a variation because the chance to increase your stats depends on actions in combat, and during battle the game tracks the characters actions using a hidden counter. At the conclusion of the battle, based on the numbers of the hidden counters, your character will gain stat bonuses. Essentially, every battle is a level up and at the end of the battle, the pool of points is spent to raise attributes. So it is a variation on the standard leveling system.
@benwood5659
11 жыл бұрын
thank you for showing mythology not only dealing with the legend of Zelda but also partially with okami as well.
@lancejohnson3373
7 жыл бұрын
Crazy, video was made in 2013, talks about a dragon and three scales. BOTW has dragons, not sure, maybe three, where you get their scales. And that's 2017. Pretty cool. And the pictures of the little stone people in this are identical to those in BOTW where you get the hearts and stamina. Yep, seems like all of it is based on this info. Really cool stuff.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
I know (and have explained in other videos) that Zelda games aren't RPGs. However, because there is a lot of overlap between the fans of RPGs and fans of Zelda games, I get asked to talk about the Zelda games often. In this video I decided to do so, since the story is interesting.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
I actually recorded this video about a year ago. But I didn't have the resources to do what I wanted to do with the episode, such as the inclusion of the beautiful artwork to narrate the story. One of my interns, Tatiana Wen, recently drew the artwork so this episode could finally be released. Currently, my hair is still long and I'm still a little overweight, though I've started exercising a little more in hopes of combating that.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
This is a terrible argument. At no point did I ever say Chrono Cross was an RPG. Zelda is not an RPG because it lacks the RPG mechanics of level system and XP. Those were the ONLY mechanics that games like Ultima, Wizardry, Akalabeth, etc etc had which defined them as different than adventure games like ZORK. You can't point to -one- game (Chrono Cross) made 20 something years after the genre came about and suggest Zelda should be considered an RPG, too.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
I have been very busy as CEO of Martell Brothers Studios, our KZitem network. Maybe in the future we can see about making this into a weekly show. Unfortunately I have to balance my commitment to the network with my personal productions. I hope you'll understand. On the bright side, I do have a lot of scripts for future episodes done.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
And as for not subbing me because I'm not telling you what you want to hear: that isn't why I do this channel. The RPG Fanatic Show is about educating gamers and combating misconceptions about the genre. There are a hundred other game channels where people give uneducated opinions on why a game is good or bad, but few that talk about things from the perspective of game design and provide insight on how to make good games.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
If you look at it from the right perspective, it's an Action-RPG series. You go to dungeons, kill bosses, get health and magic upgrades, obtain items useful for combat and travel, obtain faster methods of travel, find secrets scattered around an overworld and in dungeons, get upgrades for weapons, obtain major story weapons, etc. All of these are RPG elements put in Zelda from the NES and SNES eras. The only difference is that it's all done in real-time instead of set up battle scenes.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
It's not troll logic. Zelda is not an RPG. I have been saying that for years. RPGology is a show where I talk about the history of things in games; mostly related to RPGs, but I have on occasion talked about other things, like the origin of Christmas traditions. Zelda games, with the exception of perhaps Zelda II, are not RPGs. They are adventure games. Miyamoto himself has said this in interviews. The "fans" are not always correct, especially when they don't understand game mechanics.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
And lastly: in the games that were pointed out to justify Zelda being an RPG (Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy II ) it is possible to GRIND to become stronger, because they have leveling systems (even if they are variations on the standard level up). You cannot grind in Zelda games (except Zelda II). That is why the genres are so different; RPGs allow you to gain strength through repetitive actions. Zelda games are adventure games, and you can only increase power through fixed powerups.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Please go read some books on game design. There is a huge difference between collecting power ups, and getting stronger by defeating enemies. When you can "grind" to gain power, the strategy to win is different than when you need specific powers to more easily defeat the boss. BESIDES this video is not about game design, so please spam the correct video about your theories. This video is about the myth that inspired aspects of the Zelda series lore.
@MaverickE
11 жыл бұрын
Huh never knew some of these good refresher keep it up bro.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Actually, I have considered whether I should have a replacement host for the show or not. I haven't been sure whether that is a good idea or not. I'm not sure how the fans will react.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
EXP are supposed to be points that are used to get to a stat increase or level up, if you gain a stat increase or level up in every battle then there are no EXP. My point was that Zelda gives you a heart container (level up) whenever you beat a boss. Which is why it's technically an RPG in "leveling" terms.
@RPGtourguide
11 жыл бұрын
Nice, interesting information. :) Always been a big Zelda fan, so definitely cool to get some incite on its potential origins. ;)
@segagenesis1989
11 жыл бұрын
Great job Carey! It indeed was a very interesting episode!
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
in the future by changing ExSkills which you get by using items called ExGems. There are 2 "Types" in the game S (Strike) type, and T (Technical) type. You'll be able to change your type based on the ExSkills you equip throughout the journey, thus allowing you to change your type and learn a new move (Tech or Arte depending on the game) if you haven't learned an upgraded version of the base arte depending on the game. You'll be able to have up to 4 party members out at once from a total of--
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
And then there are other games like SaGa and FF II that use XP in complicated systems to make it seem like attributes just increase based on what your character does in combat. And then systems like Chrono Cross that limit the number of stat bonuses you can get until you get further in the game, using boss battles as check points to limit character growth.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
You would have a case if the heart container was #1 not avoidable. If Link doesn't collect the heart container he doesn't get a powerup. #2 if Link got stronger from fighting non-boss monsters. Even in Chrono Cross, fighting non-boss monsters causes characters to become stronger.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Yes it did, and it's the only title in the entire series that qualifies as being an RPG.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Zelda II was an RPG, and it's a popular enough game series that I thought people who watch the show would enjoy learning some of this info behind the mythology of the game. Did you not find the episode interesting?
@EvaFull
11 жыл бұрын
Really cool history lesson for those of that didn't know about that part of the mythology and its origins.
@Blackwolfninja89
9 жыл бұрын
I was playing Samurai Warriors four the other day with my friend and I used Ujiyasu Hojo. My friend points out that he has the triforce of courage on his cape so I had to explain this to him.
@HalifaxHercules
8 жыл бұрын
+Aaron Rainge The Triforce symbol may have originated from the Hojo Clan's emblem or mon during Japan's Warring States Period.
@Blackwolfninja89
8 жыл бұрын
+John Barrett yea I know :)
@lotusclown77
11 жыл бұрын
that was actually very interesting, wish it had been longer.. thanks for sending it m8.
GURREN LAGANN T SHIRT FTW!!!! And I really enjoy these. Subscribed.
@sargentjohnson4753
11 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the PM really enjoyed this! :D
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
You don't understand how CC works. Characters gain stat bonuses by fighting battles in CC. Your level is simply a limit on how high those stats can go. You need to beat bosses to increase the "stars" so you can gain higher stats. It's just a variation on the standard leveling system.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Besides, your argument is invalid to start with because Chrono Cross actually does have experience points. It's just a variation, the same way the SaGa games use a variation of experience points. For example, characters in both CC and SaGa Frontier gain new attribute points once a hidden counter reaches a certain value; the two games use different systems, but it's still experience points. Just because the xp is used abstractly doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
I pointed out that LttP and LA make the HC unavoidable and that it's permanent in all games. While characters in Chrono Cross do get stronger in small incriments before the boss battles, I could also argue that Heart Pieces could be the non-boss equivalent of extra level ups because if you collect all of them it's the equivalent of being at max level in an RPG.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
While Vesperia and Graces F have the most up-to-date battle system, I still say Symphonia has one of the most intuitive, and customizable battle systems in the genre. I will warn you though, Symphonia's system is more based on guarding than other titles. You can't guard from behind, and your best bet for blocking magic will be a move called guardian that you learn right before you enter the Fire Temple (first real dungeon in the game). Other than that you can customize the moves you'll learn--
@Oriandu
11 жыл бұрын
You're looking too deeply into this. Miyamoto went on record to state he simply saw it at a local temple and ran with it.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
At this point, we're going in circles. I have repeatedly told you why Zelda games are not RPGs; LINK DOES NOT GET STRONGER BY DEFEATING ENEMIES. Even Chrono Cross, you get stronger by fighting non-boss battles. You continue to try to explain why Zelda must be an RPG by grasping at straws. Your argument would make a game like Mario 64 also be an RPG. Learn something about game design, there are plenty of books on the topic on Amazon.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Those are not RPG elements. Those are elements common to nearly every game genre. Every Zelda game except Zelda II lacks a leveling system with experience points. Therefore they are not RPGs. Miyamoto himself has said they are not designed to be RPGs, because he believes RPGs are not universally accessible. Zelda series is an adventure game series.
@isbilen1000
11 жыл бұрын
As a lot pf people probably know, Susano and Amaterasu are charactes in the game "Okami", which is a game about japanese mythology. I highly recommend you go play that game, or at least watch a playthrough of it.
@MT-ub8qg
3 жыл бұрын
That symbol's first appearance is on the hilt of sevetal of the oldest swords we have ever found. They were found in Turkey. Much earlier than Shinto shrine.
@thinkbeforeyoupost9766
9 жыл бұрын
If you turn the triforce upside down you get the of the Shield of the Holy Trinity en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_of_the_Trinity
@TheWolfgangGrimmer
8 жыл бұрын
No trace of this before the 12th century according to your link. Perhaps yet another case of Christian appropriation? Or not, because looking at the illustrations, the two really don't look all that similar.
@LPN00b
11 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to the next episode.
@link8268
11 жыл бұрын
Hey thanks for the link, no pun intended, this was really cool
@Pokemonawe
11 жыл бұрын
You asked me if I liked LoZ. Well, you got the right person. I LOVE that series! Subbed!
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
Mario games, Sonic games, Star Fox games, Crash Bandicoot games, etc. don't give you permanent total health/magic upgrades, dungeons, faster methods of travel, secrets scattered throughout an overworld, or major story weapons. An RPG isn't determined by an EXP system or levels, but by it's elements. All Zelda games have RPG elements in them. Many people even consider Metroid an RPG series because it has most of these elements. Even if it's not a "true RPG" it still has the elements to make one.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Also that linked article is not a good definition. It's conclusion is that RPGs are "player-driven development of a persistent character or characters via the making of consequential choices." That means pretty much every videogame would be an RPG. Look, you are going about this in the most unscientific way possible; you're trying to find ways for Zelda to be considered an RPG. That's not how science works. I created my definition by looking at what all the early RPGs had in common.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Again, it is a variation. This is like trying to argue GURPs doesn't use a variation because it uses a point buy system. They are variations, not completely different systems.
@junobi89
11 жыл бұрын
I always liked the triforce symbol, i like this video its cool to know theye dragon scales represented and interesting because I played with the hojo clan in Total War empires
@Samiro7175
11 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the message! Good Video! :))
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Maybe that was the case with the first game. But the latter inclusion of the three Golden Goddesses is a little too coincidental, don't you think?
@eelektrosszeboss3346
11 жыл бұрын
i came here because someone sent me,i'm looking at you the RPG Fanatic
@DEVILDRAGONANEUDY
10 жыл бұрын
The hyrule warriors game now makes more sense.
@TheRpgFanatic
10 жыл бұрын
Good point!
@yumasai
9 жыл бұрын
I get this so many times when I want to recruit new members to my clan, hahaha.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
I watched, and about the EXP system part... Chrono Cross doesn't have an EXP system even though it is somewhat based on the monsters you kill early on in the game. It does have a level system, but NOT an EXP system. After four or five upgrades, statistics remain static until players defeat a boss. Zelda is done in a similar way: once you defeat a boss you get a heart container, or "level up," and in many Zelda games like LttP and LA it's unskippable. In that sense it is an RPG.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
And how about I point out FFII (NES) which doesn't have an EXP counter, but a stat increase every battle based on what you do in battle. If I lost enough health in battle my health or vitality would increase according to how much I lost. I gain power for every attack I do in battle, and I gain Intelligence for every black magic attack I do in battle. All I'm trying to point out is that there are many RPGs that don't have an EXP system because it's not required to make an RPG. There are many--
@thumbnailed
11 жыл бұрын
I think Biohazard symbol also came from the Japanese family emblem "三つ大の字(Mitsu Daino Ji)." I mean the emblem inspired the designer of Biohazard symbol.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
You should try a "Tales of" RPG like Symphonia, the Abyss, or Vesperia. While the battle mechanics are like a fighting game, the stories are incredibly well made and the battle system is very intuitive. Actually, Tales of Symphonia is getting a PS3 re-release in the US soon and as my first and favorite of the series (It's packed in with the sequel, but it sucks compared to the original) I was thinking of getting it. If you like Zelda, I think you'd like at least one of them, probably Symphonia.
@captaininsaneoooo
11 жыл бұрын
If you're the RPG Fantaic and you do reviews why haven't you done one in a few months? I'm confused
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tip. I haven't actually been playing games though. But I agree, the main key to losing weight is to reduce calorie intake.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
things that can be used in creating an RPG that do not require EXP, it's just the easiest way to have it make sense. I can pretty easily make a game that is an RPG just by making stat increases based on in battle consequences, it would just be overly complicated and confusing. Or it would be simple and straightforward like a stat increase only when you defeat a boss. What truly makes a computer RPG is consequential choices which if you look are in every computer RPG since Dragon Warrior/Quest.
@Eljonno
11 жыл бұрын
The case you're making is that Zelda isn't an RPG, you are going against most fans. Leveling doesn't necessarily make an RPG, like you think. I could list plenty of games with RPG elements and no EXP points and levels. You see, experience doesn't always come as a numeric value (as you've come to believe). True experience comes from the adventures you undertake in your "role" as hero in the game. That's what makes Zelda a true RPG experience. I may be a bit esoteric in my reasoning but it stands.
@Eljonno
11 жыл бұрын
Yeah I was pretty much joking by the time I was typing that last bit there; I was fed up with the back and forth. You're right I love RPGs like Mass Effect, and most of them definitely have a sort of Zelda-esque vibe to the gameplay mainly because of fleshed out overworld coupled with dungeon grinding.
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
You could save yourself a lot of typing if you'd take the time to search "what is a computer rpg jfreedan". I spent the time to edit a video explaining why none of those elements you mentioned are specific to the RPG genre. The only mechanic that defines a videogame RPG is a leveling system. Watch the video and you'll understand.
@NinjaNezumi
11 жыл бұрын
Which is my point. Please read the thread, especially where I give a sarcastic response to what MrTriggerBlade said. Having quests you can avoid is =/= to an actual definition of role playing.
@YaMoonSun
11 жыл бұрын
Genuinely enjoyed this video, thanks for doing the research so I didn't have to. (Even though I did.)
@frizzykid100
11 жыл бұрын
This is actually really cool! thanks for sending me a link in a message :)
@KrazyKrewLocEntTV
5 жыл бұрын
I'm having trouble finding it, however a few years back when I was trying to find out where they got the idea for the triforce, there was an article about how it was related to a Japanese business model....
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Again, Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy 2 -DO- have experience points. You as the player just do not see them. They are hidden in the code of the game and used for determining how your character gains new attributes. Think about this more critically. XP are essentially points gained through combat used to determine when a character becomes better at combat. Some games let you spend XP directly to upgrade, while others require you to obtain a certain number to "lv up" + gain pre-determined stats.
@Hippyjonnycomics
11 жыл бұрын
Unusual question but can you recommend any books on Role Playing games theory?
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
How am I saying a game like SM64 is an RPG? You don't get any permanent abilities in SM64 (Stars only count as a means to open doors, and even then you could easily glitch through them with the right means). In a game like Zelda there ARE permanent abilities. I also said I could argue that heart pieces are a means of level grinding outside of boss battles because, in a way, you are grinding for the heart pieces. You obviously ignored most of my points just to try and prove your answer.
@mc.gemstone
11 жыл бұрын
that was really amazing it came form a real myth
@serenitymoone2213
11 жыл бұрын
Wow that was interesting I never knew that the triforce was based on real life mythology :)
@Eljonno
11 жыл бұрын
No hard feelings, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying me, and most Zelda fans disagree with you when you say Zelda isn't an RPG. You bring up a handful of good points; none of which prove your case; you bring up arbitrary details to describe what an RPG is to you (numerical and grinding). As I said genre is consensus, and the consensus among most Zelda fans is that it's an RPG. You're on an epic quest; there's swords and magic and stuff. I'm confident most fans can agree with me.
@Zagardal
11 жыл бұрын
he is exaggerating a lot, but under the logic he's following, he's actually right
@GoneFishingAmalgam
11 жыл бұрын
Cool and informative. I had to stifle a grin each time he said "origins" though...
@Hippyjonnycomics
11 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot. Can you also recommend any books that look at the history of Japanese Role Playing games?
@Weenaru
11 жыл бұрын
Didn't the triforce start out as two pieces, with the third one added later?
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
Mario has a role in Super Mario Bros. Doesn't make it an RPG. Furthermore, his points weren't "better"; they were absolutely stupid. That in itself would be fine if he wasn't acting like a smart ass about how he was right, when he's absolutely wrong.
@darkmentalmaster
11 жыл бұрын
nice vid thanks for sending it :)
@TheRpgFanatic
11 жыл бұрын
I can't explain in 500 characters. Please do a KZitem search for, "what is a computer rpg jfreedan". It's an older video on my older channel.
@tyrongkojy
11 жыл бұрын
Nice, but maybe increase the volume next time a bit.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
But it's not done by a hidden counter, you can only gain a level specifically after beating a boss once you reach level 5, and previous levels are only based on the enemies you kill in the first area (which is why it maxes out at 4 instead sometimes). It's programed directly like that. I decided to look into it a while back myself, and this page has a much better definition than yours, and yes it points out EXP in it: sinisterdesign(.)net/what-makes-an-rpg-an-rpg-a-universal-definition/
@nintendonerd1426
11 жыл бұрын
It is awesome to see how the Japanese put their culture within these types of video games.
@RabbitHole20
9 жыл бұрын
Whoa! Okami mixed in with Zelda? FUCKING MIND BLOWN!!!
@Icestationzero
11 жыл бұрын
interesting video!! i always wondered what they were babbling about in the beginnig of ocarina
@TheFimbulfolk
11 жыл бұрын
One day... I will find that shrine!
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
I never got to play Secret of Mana, but I tried Secret of Evermore (Same gameplay style) and didn't like it. If you look at many of the people who've played a Tales game you'll find many of them enjoy Zelda games as well. I won't compare it to a Zelda title (except for the fact that there aren't random encouters, but 2 types of enemies in the overworld, strong and weak like Zelda II had) because it's not exactly like a Zelda game. Story's also one of the best I've ever seen even after 10 years.
@Eljonno
11 жыл бұрын
Returning to this video to give my last two cents on this. I think it's safe to say that while we may not agree on the classification of Zelda games, we are all "true" Zelda fans cause we bicker like this. Go to comments sections on any Zelda fansite; the games are so deep they spark controversial discussions that usually spiral into petty, personal spats like the one we've created here (sorry op, but at least you're getting views). You can't deny that it's great fun to disagree passionately.
@blupdaboloh
4 жыл бұрын
Is it correct to say that the Triforce is the logo of the franchise?
@youngbrooklyn536
11 жыл бұрын
i enjoyed this, i have no complaints
@Alurkerdood
11 жыл бұрын
The number three is important in many cultures and many different mythologies. Not sure why.
@DEVILDRAGONANEUDY
10 жыл бұрын
Susanao'o, as is the mystics leader from warriors orochi?
@Blackwolfninja89
10 жыл бұрын
Yea but he's from a real folk legend besides from what you see in Koei games. Also in the King of Fighters games they are three characters who use his treasures, Kusanagi, Yasakani, and Yata.
@Hippyjonnycomics
11 жыл бұрын
I had a feeling this might be the case. All the articles I've read on Japanese video game history seem to make gross generalisations and I haven't found any books that seem to focus on the subject exclusively.
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
8 (9 in total, but one leaves you and gets replaced by a guy with the exact same moveset), and trust me when I say that all of the party members are at least somewhat useful in battle at some point (even though your angel after a certain point is useless from all the times she gets kidnapped and misses chances to level up, but can still beat the hardest boss in the game at level 6? What? Damn para-ball poisoning). I could talk about the game all day, but I should stop before I get spambotted...
@doutchebags
11 жыл бұрын
Either way there isn't "EXP" which is my point. You said it MUST have EXP AND levels to be an RPG, but clearly the former is not required, which is my point.
@MariusThePaladin
11 жыл бұрын
So... Hojo clan is not only associated with Trifrove but also with Dragonballs O_o ? How the hell did Nobunaga beat this clan!
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