I have a custom geo Titanium bike and the last Venge. When i use the same wheels and tyres i have the same sensation of getting upto speed. Once there its fantastic. Its no more compliant with same wheel tyre combo, but it is more comfortable as i use shallower wheels and larger tyres as its my training bike, roads in geelong are course. I have raced my Titanium bike on the same local road course, 60km 400mtrs elevation with ave speed 41.6kph, and thats where the difference is. Once you get over that 40kph mark (not ave speed) aero carbon bike is king. The faster you go the bigger that gap between the bikes become. On the Titanium bike i was hanging on for dear life and skipping turns whereas on the Venge i was rolling turns at the front. I have also tested on 10min flat sections, Titanium bike is slower and with more watts. I love the look of the raw brushed Titanium and i designed it to have that classic shape. My position is spot on with it and I just love it, so i now only ride the Venge when i race about 4 times a month.
@thedronescene7474
Жыл бұрын
Nice Video! I have a Moots RSL ( Rim Brake ) and I do not miss Carbon at all. This bike is as fast as all my previous “aero” carbon bikes.
@robinbradbury2653
Жыл бұрын
Hi Chris - I bought a custom build steel frame bike (slightly off topic!) over lockdown and it weighs 8.25kg with wheels/pedals etc. The biggest plus for me was I chose all the components from bottom bracket up, paint etc and custom fit on a jig. I cant explain the difference. Legs still hurt but the back doesn't! Lots to be said about other materials and custom fit!
@DickKnorr
Жыл бұрын
A pro fit is the best money you can spend on your bike.
@andrewwoffinden8671
Жыл бұрын
Super interesting, thanks for doing that. I'd be really interested to know how the titanium faired on the flat to see how the round tubes effected aerodynamics. With regard to acceleration, I think it's more important than people give credit to. In a road race when you look at your power graph it's all over the place, it's a continuous load of micro accelerations, staying on the wheel, getting on a wheel moving up, getting pack into a pace line at the back not to mention coming out of a corner or going with a break and in those circumstances those 2 less pedal strokes to get up to speed could be important. Sorry, preaching to the choir!
@ojngasdovnwdsifnweij
Жыл бұрын
Most important thing is to get the bike that speaks to you. Differences in frame weight, even when mathing it out, is a few seconds at most.
@jasonbrooks7883
Жыл бұрын
Great video, few buddies and I have Lynskeys and carbon, we like and appreciate both.
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Good to hear
@KetzalSterling
Жыл бұрын
Chris, it's mind boggling how much weight you give equipment in your thought process here. You must know that once you're on a competitive bike, they're all barely any different. It's nearly all marketing BS. The Peak Torque channel has absolutely bust the titanium smoothness myth recently. You are a fantastic cyclist because you train well, eat well etc, and have done for years. The faster we can all get rid of this toxic consumerism in cycling, the better it will be for the sport overall. Cycling needs to accessible to everyone.
@timbogtir
Жыл бұрын
Is this Ketzal Sterling of High Octane video fame?
@slowcyclist4324
Жыл бұрын
Cycling being accessible to all just means all you’ve done is change the target audience of the sport, again. If it caters to the affluent class of society now, making it affordable to all changes it to cater to those who aren’t. Fundamentally, nothing has changed. It’s still a selective sport.
@mbaker1159
Жыл бұрын
Did you not watch the video champ? Chris even mentions Peak Torque 😂
@foldupaudi7645
Жыл бұрын
Cycling has gotten too expensive for ordinary folks to enjoy.
@dennischiswick9257
Жыл бұрын
This bike is ridden by... A banana!
@robertwhyte3435
Жыл бұрын
We, humans, are really good at feeling differences - we're not so good at knowing if the differences matter. Distinctions without a difference... If you have bike you look at and say to yourself, "I want to jump on that." Your work here is done.
@blindspotclinic
Жыл бұрын
Carbon fiber and aluminum are also used to make planes. That being said, I remember jumping on a serotta ti frame back in the 90s, it just wanted to go faster and faster and faster. Incredible speed and acceleration. Serotta would tune each tube for his customers. Titanium is an incredible material for bicycles.
@ulrikmortensen9426
Жыл бұрын
Serotta Ti was just like that 🤗🤗🤗
@BlackWaterCyclist
Жыл бұрын
Enjoyed your comparison here. My Ti gravel bike I designed myself was about 2 lbs heavier than the carbon equivalent and it was a rocket ship based on how I made the geometry. At the time I had a 3T Strada for the road and I always went for my Ti bike. Great video, thanks for taking the time.
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info!
@garylugg9860
Жыл бұрын
Love my Ti Lynskey Weighs same as my Trek Emonda and has the ever lasting beauty of Ti over the junk it in a bin after a couple of years carbon
@justinschultz4325
Жыл бұрын
If you look back at your bike one more time before entering the coffee shop then you bought the right bike.
@proctermorris6657
Жыл бұрын
I'd agree with the custom approach feeling like it's yours, and special. I feel like you get the same feeling when you build a bike yourself, carbon, alloy whatever. Even though it's the sum of parts you purchased. You built it, it's unique. Not just an off the shelf number. Probably less possible these days with proprietary seat posts, bars and internal routing. I reckon I'll end up down the custom steel/titanium frame at some point in my life.
@Buff_Hamster
Жыл бұрын
I can also give some personal feedback between titanium and carbon as I was riding a titanium frame (Bossi) for 1.5 years and recently built a carbon bike (Winspace). Bossi bike has custom carbon wheels with Pillar spokes (steel) while the Winspace has their own D67 carbon wheels ( carbon spokes). Both bikes same tyres and groupset. I did a multiple back to back day riding the Boulevards in Melbourne and can say time wise they were very similar but the carbon bike being faster on both hills and flats. However, the way they rode were quite different, carbon bike being very responsive and immediate to power delivery whereas the titanium bike was slower feeling to power response even though both hill pushes were 1300w on the power meters. In summary from my experience, titanium bike offered that smoother ride while the carbon bike was responsive and picked up every vibration on the roads. Both have their pros and cons but ultimately depends what you are after in a bike and your reason for cycling. Do note that there are different levels of titanium and carbon quality so this will play a factor as well.
@kensullivan511
Жыл бұрын
I made a choice between Giant Propel and a waltly ti bike I had built up... it was was easy. When I walked into the garage and was making a choice on which bike to ride, I was always drawn to the Ti frame... the propel has a new owner and I dont miss it at all.
@neilhamey9803
Жыл бұрын
I have a Ti framed bike (the bike I had down at the covid cup) as well as a few carbon roadies. The carbon bikes all feel faster, but they just never seem as nice to just put the kms in on. You raise the point about custom frames and from my experience that's it. My Ti frame was designed for me, for who I am and how I ride and it just fits like a glove.
@nobbycycles
Жыл бұрын
I ride Titanium bike & it's comfiest bike I've ever owned (but equally it's first bike I ever owned with 28mm as standard & carbon seatpost). Its massively more comfortable than my 2012 CF Colnago (but that runs 22mm tubs) I rode a trek Domane on holiday last year & that was as comfy and smooth as the Ti bike. I think tyre choice is much more likely to affect ride comfort As for speed uphill I'm not surprised that there isn't much difference given weight diff is only about 1kg
@beaurice6092
Жыл бұрын
Late to this party, but I enjoyed the video. I got a custom Guru Praemio R Titanium frame. It is a race bike and is stiff, accelerates quickly, but does not ride like what you would think a Titanium bike rides like. The Praemio (minus the R) has much smaller tubes and provides that type of ride. My mid-tier Colnago and Bianchi ride great, but are heavier and transmit more road vibrations. My custom Tommasini Fire is a steel frame, only a few ounces more than my Praemio R, and is cloud like in it’s ride quality. I have better road feel on the Tommasini and can feel the limits of the bike and tires. The same is true of my carbon bike, but the ride has more vibration and is a bit harsher. The Titanium bike is the fastest downhill and on the flats, but high speed corners going downhill, it keeps some secrets. Since I do not make a living riding bikes, I ride the one that inspires me that day. My Praemio R is my go to, number one, however.
@glenndesmo3
Жыл бұрын
Hey Chris, very interesting commentary and I do believe craftsmanship and the prospect of customization is a key differentiator the premium end of the market. I am very fortunate to have a few choices of titanium, steel and carbon. I live the Bay Area and last year climbed 240,000 ft with the majority on gravel. When I do ride on the road it’s a TI bike which is preferred for its “feel” on the road surfaces I ride and it makes me smile even when riding up Mt Diablo
@ahmu.k6282
Жыл бұрын
loving the recent videos mate.. like new format, production, effort, info, changes? cant pinpoint it
@c.wagner7482
Жыл бұрын
you made a great point about craftsmanship and personalization.
@logojones96
Жыл бұрын
Truly think regular riders are being hoodwinked into thinking they'll notice little differences in having a pro level carbon bike. When really most regular people won't, and with a custom or semi-custom steel or Ti bike you can get a more unique and built for you type setup that performs fantastic for less money(depending on what you pick) than most pro level carbon bikes from the big brands. Great video. I'm also biased in that I love the classic triangles and straight top tube look lol.
@d33pfish
Жыл бұрын
I have recently bought an off-the-rack titanium frame to go alongside a fairly light, carbon bike I already have. My perception and feeling about the titanium frame are the same as in this video. I'm very happy with it. Unfortunately, my results are a bit different. The hills I train on are a similar length to Bobbo, but steeper. I am getting faster results on the climbs on the carbon bike. The titanium is faster everywhere else, particularly the descents, which are generally bumpy where I live. Both bikes have their strengths. I prefer riding the titanium frame. It's better suited to the type of riding that I do. I love the look of titanium frames too. Especially Mosaics.
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this information mate. Glad to hear your enjoying the bikes
@stibra101
Жыл бұрын
I have build titanium rim brake bike last year, Chelichana custom frame in size M, copied geometry from my Colnago V2R with little adjustment. Build with Columbus Futura fork, Dura Ace 9100 groupset, Fulcrum Racing Zero wheels, Deda Superzero alu handlebars and stem, Veloflex Corsa Evo tires with latex tubes. Weight with Look Keo2Max pedals, bottle cages, K-Edge Wahoo mount and heavy SQlab 612 Active saddle is 7.7 kg. It could easily go down to 7.3 with light saddle, carbon pedals and light carbon wheels. I ride it almost all the time, so much fun.
@HarryFunmaker
Жыл бұрын
Unpainted Ti frames look amazing. I had one for a short while , but unfortunately it didn't fit me. I always liked the idea of having a bike that could last the rest of my life, and that's how they marketed Ti frames back in the day. However, my carbon frame has over 100,000km on it right now and it's still riding just fine.
@tommyfreckmann6857
9 күн бұрын
What carbon frame is that?
@davidide1525
Жыл бұрын
Nice, thoughtful video. One thing to mention is longevity. I have a 10 year old Moots ti road bike and I just put new full Campy 12 speed (mech., rim brake)on it a year ago, including Bora wheels. It looks amazing and rides great. Most people think it is a new bike.
@federicosbetta1368
Жыл бұрын
yes what you were feeling with the pedal strokes is acceleration, probably it was mostly because of weight, the fact you had with the same power different times it means there were some resistences that might have been in the components, but more probably were due to wind, a tailwind between 5 or 10 km/h, that is not noticable, would probably generate that difference. I guess the bikes were very similar to have produced this kind of results.
@huskiesparty
Жыл бұрын
Chris, I own a 2019 Pinarello CF bike and a 2020 Ti bike. The two bikes have identical geometry. My Pinarello is all CF except for the stem (Al). My Ti bike has Ti seatpost and Ti stem, but CF forks and CF wheels. The Ti bike is a few ounces heavier than the CF bike, but the two bikes do have different ride qualities. I live in a location where the roads are in bad shape, so I endure a lot of bumps and jolts over rough pavement. I have found that the Ti bike gives a much smoother ride over the rough roads. The CF bike doesn't transmit road vibration, but it does jolt you over bumps in the road. My Ti bike is on par with the Pinarello for dampening road "buzz" but it is superior over bumps in the road-it just does not jolt my body like the CF bike does. I find them both to be equally good bikes, but the ride quality between them is discernable.
@jbjabe1133
Жыл бұрын
A Ti Merlin was the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. And it was super responsive, with instant accelerations. It did have the magic ride but unfortunately it wasn't mine. So I bought an Enigma Evade. Totally different bike, stiffer and not a magic ride. But I eventually adjusted it and find it puts a smile on my face whenever I ride it and that works for me. It also looks fabulous. Some of the carbon frames I've ridden and tested are more responsive but so stiff and tiring, so why would I want one of those? Being Ti means I won't get the carbon frame fade (I've seen several vids describing how carbon frames can lose their liveliness over time). But I think people have become obsessed with the pursuit of something they don't really need. A pros requirements are different. A little like ski boots and skis. A downhill racer needs stiff boots and long stiff skis because of the speeds they achieve, but the boots and skis are hell outside their parameters of use. Does your average consumer ride fast enough to get the benefits of an aero bike, but they buy one with integrated everything and get a bike that's impossible to work on. Find something that you enjoy, that's practical for you and get on with it.
@FaiscaaaH
Жыл бұрын
Another "bang on" video !!! Thanks for the INFO.
@Lushboi69
Жыл бұрын
Love the summing up. It’s true. Steel and TI frames touch your soul.
@GeekonaBike
Жыл бұрын
I've always side most of the "Princes & the Pea" bike 'feel' reviews had way more to do w/ the stock tires than with the frame materials.
@ericclaire-helenerfletcher9433
Жыл бұрын
titanium is lighter compared to Cromoly frame, for someone traveling would probably be less risky, however as you have said it really comes down to the personal choice, i have a tarmac expert from 2019 with Bontrager 50 carbon wheels, not the lightest bike , tried a pair of Winspace 45 full carbon wheels carbon spokes , 28mm tires conti 5000 and regular tubes , they were really responsive and faster than my other wheels ,cornering and giving the power to get up to speed was faster, the only downside is the road buzz coming from the wheels in a criterium can ignore , however for a longer road with different road surfaces becomes irritating, the best would be a tubeless setup , a lot less road buzz ,
@stibra101
Жыл бұрын
tubeles is for mtb bikes
@BikeRacingWithoutMercy
Жыл бұрын
Excellent comparison Chris - and thanks for posting the video. My local custom bike shop received delivery of a Mosaic custom built for me back in September. However I got badly injured in May ‘22 so haven’t collected it let alone ridden it. And was wandering if I should even sell it immediately - because I’m not sure I now need another bike. But seeing your enjoyment of the experience of riding it (irrespective of the speed) is very reassuring - and I’m now intrigued to see if my experience is similar to yours on the climb (vs Wilier 0 SLR - which I also love). Cheers🙏
@drewchristopher5056
Жыл бұрын
Really well done. Mosaic for life.
@johnlenneberg
Жыл бұрын
Wow, that really threw the cat amongst the pigeons. Two materials, two great bikes. There’s now no need to fuss over materials, just go buy what you want. Great video, bravo.
@markmccann-wood2225
Жыл бұрын
I can completely agree regards titanium feel/connection to the bike - I also own a high end made in Italy carbon bike & it's brilliant but lacks a certain feel in comparison (TIME is close but different) & having just returned from the Dolomites can safely say titanium goes up hill (20km climbs 4-16%) very well
@JibbaJabber
Жыл бұрын
Chris, I think you hit the nail on the head with the 'vogue vs bespoke' comparison. I assumed that's you might be a bit of a fan boy, so I'm refreshingly surprised by your review. We're not all elite pros - we don't need sexy brands and fractional watts! However, what we do all need is a proper bike fit and a properly fitted bike💪👌👍💯 Noice😁
@justinlambert4937
Жыл бұрын
Great vid, Chris
@rickmancini772
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris. You and Jesse have some of the best cycling content. Is the fit of both bikes as close as possible? Is the crank length the same? You didn’t mention if you used the same wheels/tires on both bikes and swapped them out between the test rides. If not, the diff in wheels/tires and tire pressure could have more impact than any frame difference.
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Same crank length. Yes I used the same wheels 👍🏽. Thanks for the comment
@rickmancini772
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris, then the results are not surprising. With those outside factors accounted for, only appreciable difference would be the weight of the frames. The Ti frame is probably about 700 grams heavier than the Factor frame. This was obviously not enough to make a difference in your test climbs. Maybe during the course of a longer ride with multiple climbs, the diff in weight may have more of an impact. Both bikes are super sweet BTW.
@SuperTaylor68
Жыл бұрын
Great vid Chris.
@PaganiZondaF650hp
Жыл бұрын
Hi Chris, I recently bought a ritchey road logic rim brake frame set to build up as probably my last rim brake bike. It has 30mm tire clearance which is great for the few wide, tubeless rim wheel sets these days. I went for it because I wanted something special, classic looking and very gran fondo or audax capable, being that my next disc bike and the bikes after that are probably always gonna be a bit faster (feeling) with bikes evolving over time. From what I read and heard on titanium, it is rather to be compared with aluminium bikes in terms of compliance. Titanium being as comfortable as steel seems to be a myth. Also, yours has very beefy tubes… My ritchey frame weighs 1700g so probably about 200 to 250g more than the mosaic titanium one.
@kidkarbon4775
Жыл бұрын
Great video, really interesting, informative and objective. Great to see you not blindly repeating the Titanium ride quality myth. Enjoying hearing your thoughts and experiences, imho they are pretty balanced. 👍
@garybird8646
Жыл бұрын
Titanium has always been great material to make bikes from but racing it not so good, the stored energy you experience (spring) is not ideal sprinting out of corners in a criterium. Spin-Rotor had a team here in the UK doing the premier series riding titanium a decade or so back and they reckoned each acceleration out of the corners needed 40 extra watts. For regular riders though, a high quality titanium bike is the nuts.
@janeblogs324
Жыл бұрын
Read the reneherse article on flesh frames. You lose watts, but you do less knee damage. On long rides or when you only put out 300w not 2000w the flexy frames are faster
@nemophilistfun
Жыл бұрын
Congratulations 🎊 👏 on your recent podium at the nationals. Great for the titanium bike as well.... fillipo g. Hour record bike is also titanium.
@frankreyes4
Жыл бұрын
Well done Chris
@waynosfotos
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing the study, interesting results 👍
@litespeed65
Жыл бұрын
Why buy Titanium? First, it’s cool and is used to build rockets and aircraft for a reason. Most Ti frames are made by small local companies by people who are dedicated and actually care. Most carbon frames aren’t and apparently the lack of quality shows.
@discbrakefan
Жыл бұрын
Not all carbon frames are poor quality. But if you want a locally built frame with customisation, titanium or steel are the choices.
@casladek
Жыл бұрын
my main ride for the past 10 years has been a Titanium Cyclocross framed bike. given watts savings are not the first and foremost priority, it's ridden for fitness and fun, on and off-road in miserably wet, muddy as well in beautiful warm sunny, smooth tarmac and rocky conditions. in my opinion, there isn't a better frame material on the market (even) today which could or would stand up to the conditions or amount of thrashing i have put this bike thru with minimal (approaching zero) corrosion. rock strikes? what rock strikes, show me the scars. the robustness factor Ti brings to the table is bar none. the minimal weight and power transfer disadvantages are undetectable to the vast majority of cyclists. how many 10 year old carbon, steel or aluminum frames out there, which have been put thru similar stresses, are still on the road or off-piste & look and ride like they're new? that all said...each material has its time and place for a specific, desired ride quality and riding style & each bring unique pros and cons to the table. additionally (in my opinion), paying a local fabricator (who sets their own fair market bearing fee) for a haute couture, quality Ti frame is far better than padding big brand corporation's coffers who exploit and price gouge to maximize profits. for many, if not most cyclists who watch this great channel or who read this, custom tailored, high end, Ti frames can be quite economical in comparison to high end carbon and the monies saved can be spent on component and wheelset upgrades...
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment
@2XFactor51
Жыл бұрын
I think Chris touched on it very well. Although subjective, the acceleration “feel” on bikes IS different, albeit for a variety of reasons. Having ridden a Felt AR1, Scott Addict, Trek Madone SLR7, Cannondale System 6, Factor One, and now the Factor Ostro Vam in the past 4yrs, I can honestly say that the OV feels faster than all of them, with the Felt being the closest to the two Factors. The System 6 and the Madone are the slowest AT accelerating, IMO, but the Trek ride is the smoothest of them all due to the Iso speed(I guess, no real idea-my body just doesn’t feel as beat up on it). I’m 50, returning to competitive cycling after 20yrs with pulmonary issues, which means I still suck, but I’m ok with sucking now, and I can’t fathom how ANY consumer can buy into the “lighter, stiffer, faster” advertising every single year, then you ride one, and you go absolute no faster. Matter of fact, all of the bikes I’ve ridden recently would be overmatched, or closely matched to the Trek 5200OCLV, @18lbs, I raced in 1998, when I actually didn’t suck. I tried a Lightspeed Vortex back then, too. Dead feel when accelerating, somewhat more compliant at tempo. Sold that thing immediately.
@anthonymiller4004
Жыл бұрын
Another top vid nice work. Interested to know what the real weight difference between the two is - guessing it can’t be too much.. and if the Factor accelerates quickly then the TI must be fast elsewhere to have a better time ….
@Mattytube18
Жыл бұрын
There’s a great deal of craftsmanship that goes into building a carbon frame, carbon, is also used in airplanes and space travel.
@DP-PhD
Жыл бұрын
Hi Chris. Very interesting one this thanks! Speed is determined by the drag, weight and rolling resistance of a whole system (bike and rider). Maybe I’m missing something but is there an insight to the whole going faster thing here in regards to how ‘efficient’ you and the titanium bike are at translating power into speed? The titanium system is heavier and less aero but travels faster over the same terrain in the same conditions for the same average power output. Surely it can only achieve this by having a far lower rolling resistance (aka a ‘buttery smooth ride’ = less power lost), and or more efficient transfer of power into speed (aka rider bike interface)?
@peteracain
Жыл бұрын
Baum. Best move I ever made
@thedownunderverse
Жыл бұрын
AU$11,000 for a fuselage. They’re taking the p1ss
@peteracain
Жыл бұрын
@@thedownunderverse same price as a high end carbon bike if not cheaper. Impeccable welding/craftmanship (carbon bikes a crapshoot). Made to your geometry. Standard components replaceable in the future. Will travel without breaking. (All the lessons I learnt from owning carbon frames. ) Smoothest ride I've ever had. Custom paint to your liking. Lots of heads have turned. Agree there are cheaper options though
@patrickmanson282
Жыл бұрын
I would be keen to see your heart rate as a further measure of effort which may relate to wind assistance, but also agree that for most people there will be negligible differences as most of us don't ride at 40km/h where all the aero testing is done!
@spinthatup3851
Жыл бұрын
Really interesting video! I do apologies if I missed this in the other video, as I have not watched it yet. Could these differences come down to just the bike fit? What are the differences in reach, stack, offset to bottom bracket? I feel that fit as you mentioned is so critical and would trump weight tremendously.
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Hey mate, could come down to millions of things (weather, tyre pressure, air pressure etc etc). I tried to keep everything in line, but the point was more I didn’t expect the results to even be close, hence following it up with all these reps. Hoping to hang on to the Mosaic a bit longer and do more comparisons.
@spinthatup3851
Жыл бұрын
@@ChrisMillerCycling really looking forward to hearing more on this, again super super interesting and love the data attached to it. Thanks for doing it.
@rickychopper
Жыл бұрын
I have quite a few bikes with different groupsets and different materials and heres some of my takes so far. Really enjoying an old skool specialized at the mo with carbon rear stays and 9 speed Ultrega, very comfy on flats but not the best climber. I managed to get myself a full Trek carbon areo with Di2 for a third of the price it should be. I have to admit the areo side of things does make a difference and even in a head wind it's a lot less work than my other bikes. Also have an old Skool Trek SL aluminium from the Lance's days, this has been updated to 11 speed Sensah Empire groupset. Best bike for climbing I've come across so far and would never sell it. Also just building up a full carbon Sky replica Pinarallo with 105, so looking forward to see how that goes. Also have a Moda as my winter bike and fixed trainer as well, very underated brand and would definitely have another one of their models given the chance.
@MrSzwarz
Жыл бұрын
I had similar, but not measured result. Back in Malta I was cycling on two bikes, Focus Cayo Disc (the very first disc brake road bike build) and Etape disc titanium, which appears to be more rigid, and efficient under similar conditions. On theses two bike I had exactly the same mechanical Sram groupset and DT Swiss wheels.
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing
@stellisto
Жыл бұрын
It depends... exits, because it is exotic material, who are sort of in is own category around cycling community. I see that many point of views you can weight it around, but are this make sense in first place... like Mars vs Earth. Climbing hills it is craft, like you motioned the stroke of peedling application have different feel/sensation! Interesting one thing if we could have comparison, on how power phase of each stroke is applied during the climbing for those two setups will match up/correlate.
@ShawnIsBatman
Жыл бұрын
I think that your performance testing results are down to the fact that once you get to a certain level of equipment, in this case the bike, then the differences between models, vendors, etc. are all really at the margins and for most of us mere mortals, those differences do not translate into any significant performance difference. In my case I am a 56 year old serious cycling enthusiast, I am by no means talented or good, but I push myself to be the best I can be. I ride a 2022 Pinarello Prince, I would postulate that for a rider such as myself, I could trade my Pinarello for a bike of similar quality and not notice a performance difference. If I were a World Tour rider, the marginal differences in the equipment would matter, but for the rest of us (the 99%) it is about maximizing your investment for what works for you.
@lwild04
Жыл бұрын
If you want a bike that will last a lot time and will hold its value go with Titanium, if you want the lightest thing out and don't want it to hold up a long time go with carbon.
@toshman696969
Жыл бұрын
the material might give you different quality but the most important thing is actually fit i raced a custom aluminum bike but i hate riding it because its long and short so i am in an aggressive position with no spacers, but my carbon bike is more of an endurance fit and i can ride it for ages and its comfortable as shit.
@soulsurfer8797
Жыл бұрын
Chris could you see how you do in this when adding a 25-30ride up to the climb? I believe the factor will truly outshine the Ti bike.
@johnhunt3076
Жыл бұрын
What else is different? 1.) Is position the same? 2.) Same powermeter? 3.) Same wheels/tires?
@universe-juice
Жыл бұрын
Nice video. I'd be interested in the difference on the decent
@magnusschroeder9806
Жыл бұрын
Hey Chris, congrats for the channel (I discovered recently and really enjoy your content). One topic I’d like to know your opinion is about the new hookless wheels trend (i.e. Giant bikes are all sold with this wheel technology, so does this mean should be nothing wrong with it? Are hookless more dangerous than hooked? What about performance?…).
@BlackWaterCyclist
Жыл бұрын
Hookless for road is pointless and can be dangerous. All it does is make the internal width of a rim 1mm wider and a few grams lighter. I always go hooked for road and even gravel. On the MTB, hookless is perfect due to the low pressures.
@cindyvillalva02
Жыл бұрын
good for lla of people
@hotcakes1117
Жыл бұрын
The best bike to ride is the bike you already have. Its been proven time and time and time again the fitter you are and lower position on the bike you can hold are the only real world measurable gains you will achieve. The best part its free
@draugmithrin
Жыл бұрын
Exactly, unless you're an elite racer or have money to burn better gains are to be found elsewhere. Just ride lfrequently, train smart, eat a healthy diet and watch your weight. As long as your bike works you'll outperform your clubmates on their "superbikes". For me a bike is just a collection of consumable parts and not something to worship. I'm more concerned it being quick and easy to service, durability and avoiding proprietary parts.
@Malcom2345
Жыл бұрын
Some of my best segment times were done on a cheap steel frame l got off ebay for $150 called a visp. 8 years back now and had aero tubes that could fit 28mm tyres. Felt like it had less loss of power transfer. Go figure. Still have it so might do a rebuild.
@truthseeker8483
Жыл бұрын
Raleigh Wisp???
@andrewroche2815
Жыл бұрын
Yeh Ketzal Sterling, good point about marketing and Peak Torque but don't you just love these detailed comparison and review of bikes the likes of me can't afford or justify riding?
@troycollett8540
Жыл бұрын
Interesting to hear about the feedback from each frame as metal frames had a reputation of giving a harsh ride with feedback through the body
@Lemond75
Жыл бұрын
That’s only really associated with aluminium. Steel and titanium are both renowned to offer a smoother ride than aluminium, and in some cases carbon, but with so much variety these days in tube diameters and shapes, it’s easy to build a stiff and unforgiving bike out of either steel or titanium. I’ve got a Ti, a stainless steel, and a traditional steel bike, in addition to a few carbon bikes, and the ride quality is different across them all, and I think the design dictates comfort as much, if not more than the material. For example, my lugged and tubed carbon Colnago from 2013 is really smooth compared to my 2021 Giant TCR, I previously owned a Condor Super Accaiao, made from oversized steel, and found it so harsh and uncomfortable that I had to get rid of it.
@montanajones8393
Жыл бұрын
This only confirms what we already know about bikes. An aero road bike will always be faster than a non aero bike on the road with the exception that on hills weight trumps aero with all things being equal. Aero road bikes are heavier because of the large Kamm tail shaped tubes used. Most aero bikes are over 8kg at present. The Mosaic with round tubes is not affected by aerodynamics on a climb & should be able to easily build up to less than 8kg, so it should be faster than the Factor with all else being equal on a climb.
@user-yn5sk5ru5g
Жыл бұрын
I just sold my titanium road bike. N+1 isnt great if you have a small shed 😁. I did like how it felt climbing.
@maniastrat
Жыл бұрын
Comments censored or KZitem error?
@niekvandenberg205
Жыл бұрын
Spent about 500 miles on it and so far so good. kzitem.infoUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA Pros:1. Very light2. Solid quality build3. Fast delivery: It arrived 5 weeks earlier than expected.4. Easy assemblyJust a few cons but nothing major:1. Cheap tin tubes and had flat on first day... but not a big deal. I replaced the tubes.2. Seat is a bit uncomfortable but that's pretty much the same situation with most bikes.3. Seat post is a bit long/high for a smaller size 48 bike - had to saw 2 inch off to fit properly. The lowest setting is too high. The post locking system does not seem to hold well (perhaps because I saw 2 inch off).4. wheels are not tubeless compatible (from what I can tell)
@ciprian7
Жыл бұрын
Great test, why not swapping wheels and find out how much that matters for the difference in times? that would be informative
@mrwhiteshorts
Жыл бұрын
Hi Chris, did you do a spin test to both bikes? Simply remove chain and give the cranks a spin... see how long it spins for or how many rotations you get. pedals removed will give you the best results but with pedals also works fine.
@Chefrocker
Жыл бұрын
Try to get your hands on a SERK titanium. I am riding my A10 for over 20.000km and haven’t had one issue. The boutique brand by the Australian Beijing based owner has all the passion a great brand needs.
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tip Chef! I’ll check them out.
@d9dga
Жыл бұрын
Now, as far as I understood it, acceleration had more to do with the wheels than the frame. "Rotational inertia".... I think. Happy to learn more though. Did you have the same wheels on the Factor as on the Mosaic?
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
Same wheels
@ChillSnaps
Жыл бұрын
Using the same exact power meter on both bikes? Also would be cool if there were more data on the same day.
@hobbanero
Жыл бұрын
wheels look different between the bikes, but that would probably not be a huge deal. are the tires the same, and at the same pressures? you are looking at what is ultimately around a 2% difference. could be wind, tires, earth's rotation slowing down.....
@glennicol1361
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting... Do you still have the Chapter 2?
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
No that was the groupset from the toa on the mosaic
@neilmckenna236
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting Chris.... its so interesting to see that a bike 'looks' so 'basic' and traditional, heavy etc is QUICKER on those tests. What on earth does that tell us about the nonsense that is shoved down our throat continuously about new modern bikes! 🤔
@ChrisMillerCycling
Жыл бұрын
That’s where my head is at, I’m very confused right now
@neilmckenna236
Жыл бұрын
@Chris Miller Cycling yes, total head melt! I'm just about to order a modern aero bike, moving o ln from my S6 EVO (last of the traditional rim brake)..... what am i doing 😳 😫🙈
@Shadowboost
Жыл бұрын
What's the difference in weight between the two? On a 7+% climb, that's really all that is going to matter if tires and wheels and geometry are the same (same rolling resistance)
@nicknelson4548
Жыл бұрын
Interesting, but steady climbs seem the least likely place to see differences between the two? How about higher speed where aerodynamics may play more a role, sprinting, or smashing up steep ramps? Years ago I went from high-end steel to a SuperSix Evo II HM. Where I lived was flat with steep river bluffs and the riding/racing style was super punchy - lots of sprints and less than 2min efforts. I PR'd everything on the SuperSix *shrug
@am7jeremy
Жыл бұрын
Titanium rim brake it is
@coldforgedcowboy
Жыл бұрын
@Chris Miller Cycling... If cycling was just about climbing metalic frames would still be a reasonable option. Where metalic frames give up performance is at speed because they lack the aerodynamic profiles that carbon fiber frames can achieve.
@nationsnumber1chump
Жыл бұрын
Which would you choose......an Allez Sprint with Sram Red E-tap (no wires), OR a Giant propel or tcr with ultegra di2?
@kidkarbon4775
Жыл бұрын
TCR any day of the week when compared to the other bikes irrespective of groupset. It's just a better frame imho
@roderickw519
Жыл бұрын
Should really run your numbers through a statistical comparison like a t test or better still an ANOVA that takes variation in power between runs into account as well. Excel has them built in. Most probably there isn't a statistical difference between the bikes once the variance is factored in - at least for this set of data. ( I could run them if you care to share). As someone else has commented 900g extra is one and a bit percent extra for the rider plus bike package, the difference will be lost in the noise. Question really is, Is this the best way to compare two bikes?. Success in racing might be about something else - ability to accelerate or break away, ability to resist fatigue, maximum achievable speed (I don't know, I don't race). Perhaps you need to do a suite of tests. But if your yardstick is satisfaction of ownership its kind of all in the mind.
@warhammer1009
Жыл бұрын
There is a company that does custom titanium bikes for a good price call waltly titanium About 1000-1500usd
@alexjohnson6462
Жыл бұрын
Waltly is probably the most trustworthy of all the asian brands when it comes to titanium, and they'll build just about anything you want (road bike, gravel bike, bikepacking bike... I think even a Ti hartail mountain bike) and can work with you if you are unable to give them precise CAD drawings. They are one of the few mass manufacturers I would trust not to overcook the titanium welds. Thats the biggest concern you have to worry about with the myriad budget titanium brands you see. Their guys do real clean welds too. Very nice. The Sonder brand bikes from Alpkit (they are the major competitor to the other UK brand Planet X who sells very nice budget titanium bikes), I had heard Sonder gets their bikes made by Waltly. If so, it shows Waltly makes great bikes because the Sonder Ti bikes are really good.
@richardggeorge
Жыл бұрын
I bet you would be just as fast on a 105-spec'ed carbon bike from Polygon for a quarter of the price. 🤣
@TurneyUK
Жыл бұрын
It is mind boggling looking at different manufacturers, components, materials, spec, types of bike (gravel, aero and so on) why is one better than another? I think marketing has a part to play in all this. We’re talking small differences, one may be slightly better at a specific job, if it’s racing, commuting, trails etc. they all have a niche. My one thought on this is doesn’t it look kind of retro. It doesn’t have aero foil section tubes, dropped seats stays, race geometry. I don’t mean that in a bad way, it just looks like a rather nice bike. If it looks good and makes you feel good then it probably rides just as good as anything you could throw a leg over. In the custom world you’ll still be offered steel frames, which seems very old fashioned now. As the saying goes steel is real. People still love them.
@KD_cycling
Жыл бұрын
The fastest bike is the one that gets you amped up to go ride it!
@paolohuang9935
11 ай бұрын
This bike was really easy to assemble kzitem.infoUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
@marcus_velo_9970
Жыл бұрын
chris next time you're in a Airbus A380, look out at the wings "Carbon Fibre" - you would know that Carbon Fibre has the highest strength to weight ratio, particularly compared to Ti and Alu do you want that confirmed? the forks on your Ti bike are CF not Ti, why is that? Actually most Ti bikes have carbon fibre forks. So part of your ride quality is carbon fibre 😁 Now lets talk about the welds on Ti that's a weak point, CF no welds, structurally one piece carbon frame in modern frames, more strength and less than 1kg. Can't do that with Ti too flexy. I nearly purchased a Baum once, but went for 3 Giants instead tcx, disc, tcr disc and mtb. "Boeing 787 Dreamliner and the Airbus A350 XWB leading the way, commercial airlines are progressively making greater use of carbon fiber composites to build aircraft bodies. Because carbon fiber is stronger than steel, lighter than aluminum, and can be molded into virtually any shape"
@josephdesales7791
4 ай бұрын
How does it feel using titanium from carbon?
@ericpmoss
Жыл бұрын
The difference is that one of these bikes is flexing and rebounding more in sync with your pedaling. There is such a thing as too stiff.
@reginaldscot165
Жыл бұрын
My titanium bike is lighter than your carbon bike and cheaper. Litespeed T1SL. Titanium wins on almost every level. But personally I wouldn’t have got a fully painted one like that.
@SeeYouUpTheRoad
Жыл бұрын
Now you need to ride a steel bike. And please for god’s sake stop talking about weight. Weight is NOT a thing Carbon has been oversold as some magic material but it’s not. It’s what’s cheapest to mass produce in this day and age. Ride a high performance steel bike. Or even just a Ritchey Road Logic like what I own and sell. If you have to and you can’t find a rim brake bike then ride the disc brake version. But honestly the steel bike will ride better than the Ti and better than your Factor. Your ascent times will be the same as the Ti bike you’re riding in this test. But you won’t have to spend an arm and a leg to buy overpriced Titanium. You need to trust me on this one Chris.
@stibra101
Жыл бұрын
Weight is a THING! It is always more fun to ride light bike. But you can make your steel bike light if not made from gas pipes. I have steel bikes from 7,5 to 9 kg, few older around 10 kg.
@georgesj9536
Жыл бұрын
Is there a difference between the rapha pro training jerseys and the regular ones? expect colors and price?
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