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@DIE-FRY
Жыл бұрын
okay
@snakeinthegrass453
Жыл бұрын
Shill lmao
@p0kem0nlvl1
Жыл бұрын
GET THAT BAG
@wraith6233
Жыл бұрын
I think banning gems was stupid and they should’ve left Gen 5 as it was.
@TeamDeltaMAXXX
Жыл бұрын
One of the biggest reason why people realized gems were broken were Z-Moves in gen 7. Once people realized how impactful they were, more people tried gems in gen 5.
@Bluey-yq1nv
Жыл бұрын
Z-Moves didn't make people realize how absurd gems are. It's the recent culmination of people realizing that gems make overpowered pokemon even more broken.
@yusikillah6175
Жыл бұрын
"the brokeness of gems were hidden behind things that were even more broken" LOL
@lyzder7298
Жыл бұрын
That's what happens when you introduce weather mons, big stats, op items and change sleep all in the same generation
@tomaszpawlik5091
Жыл бұрын
There is a reason why gen 5 has so much shit banned in ou. By far the biggest power creep in pokemon history, not even zacian or galar forms come close.
@captaindemozan2700
Жыл бұрын
It's only recently that I realized how much of a trainwreck the Gen 5 competitive scene really is
@shako4907
Жыл бұрын
@@tomaszpawlik5091 ehhh, not really
@kaistephens2694
Жыл бұрын
@@tomaszpawlik5091 Gen 9 comes close.
@Inithia
Жыл бұрын
I feel like nobody would bat an eye if only the first hit of multi-hits were effected. It sounds like the wave of cloyster and weavile took it too far
@beeorsomething2230
Жыл бұрын
Weavile was actually not that common Cloyster was but there were also breloom, Latios, volcarona, etc Though this is not to say weavile was bad or anything, just it was a little under the radar
@alexavermeulen8847
Жыл бұрын
cloyster and breloom are the big ones when it comes to multi hits
@remoraid45
Жыл бұрын
@@beeorsomething2230 hi
@beeorsomething2230
Жыл бұрын
@@remoraid45 what’re you doing here
@CocoLocoToco
Жыл бұрын
Technician bullet seed hits hard
@felix_irgendwas
Жыл бұрын
You cannot tell me Gems affecting all hits of multihit moves was a little known mechanic. Grass Gem Bullet Seed Breloom was run a ton in the BW era, when Showdown wasn't even popular yet and Pokémon Online was still relevant xD
@Jin-lp5lt
Жыл бұрын
I love hearing some nerd rewrite history in a video essay!
@IndexInvestingWithCole
Жыл бұрын
Yea it’s been known for over a decade that gems affect all hits
@cesareangeli6653
Жыл бұрын
I Google searched it, and the first result was a blog post from 2012 explaining it. Also, gems were veeeery used in vgc since their introduction
@500werewolf
Жыл бұрын
Flying type + Flying Gem + Acrobatics = OH DEAR LORD THE DAMAGE!!! Yes, Acrobatics gets its X2 power bonus after using Flying Gem. Keep in mind Archeops has 140 Base Attack and can learn Acrobatics.
@LittleMountain90
Жыл бұрын
Alternatively, Unburden Drifblim with Flying Gem + Acrobatics + Recycle
@MrcreeperDXD777
Жыл бұрын
Hawlucha will be even more infuriating since it doesnt have to waste a moveslot for sky attack or a teamslot for a terrain setter
@Chimera-man-man
Жыл бұрын
Thats insane, it was pretty common to give Archeops a Flying Gem when Gen 5 was current since people (myself included) assumed that it just helped boost the power of item-held Acrobatics (making it a 82 power move). I had no idea until now basically that it boosted the power of unburdened acrobatics, that's nuts.
@amberhernandez
Жыл бұрын
Hawlucha would've loved to have it; shame it got delote so quickly.
@Alexcoman51
Жыл бұрын
@@LittleMountain90 probably still does like 20% and dies
@pigeonleader
Жыл бұрын
Sucks how they took away gems in later Pokemon. I'm not into competitive Pokemon but using gems in my White 2 playthrough was really fun
@TheZett
Жыл бұрын
Funnily enough the gems got nerfed in gen 6 (x1.5 to x1.3), but were still in the game files (you just could not obtain them legally). They also added a fairy gem to the game files, which was also unobtainable. Additionally, XY also contained the Lati@s mega stones, which arent obtainable either (until ORAS).
@CoffeeFlavoredMilk
Жыл бұрын
I'd like to think Gems were ultimately reworked into Z-Moves, and expanded it to also take benefit on non-attacking moves at the cost of being less abundant and not working on moves like Acrobatics or multi-hit moves quite as well. Though that also got the axe in the Gen 8 so who knows.
@Djirifoekrkfkf
Жыл бұрын
They replaced gems with z moves, which are a much better alternative
@hangfire5944
Жыл бұрын
@@Djirifoekrkfkf i think that a good idea would to have gems be the same as in gen 5, only they dont affect mutli hit moves and they tell your opponent that you have them, kind of like air balloon.
@Splitcyclewastaken
Жыл бұрын
One of my personal favorites was Archeops with Acrobatics and the flying gem, because it was STAB, plus it would Consume the Gem and buff acrobatics, but by the time the move actually comes out the gem has been consumed so you get the doubled base power of acrobatics, multiplied by 1.5x, alongside STAB. It basically made my Archeops a pokemon I would be able to switch in to a huge threat that I outsped and just Delete them.
@SteveScapesYT
Жыл бұрын
I think lessons learned from New gens driving innovation in old gens is also a thing here. When Gen 5 was current, a 1 time boost did come off as less important/powerful impaired to consistent items performing throughout the game- culturally, used to older gens and dealing with more broken shit, the singles player base wasn’t as a tune to the boost value as later players who grew up with Gen 7 and the massive hype/power/restrictions of Z moves. I think Gen 7 informed Gen 5 play retrospectively, just as Gen 3-5 gets a lot more Knock Off use and Gen 2 a lot more Thief use after Gen 6 did more to inform players of the value of removing items through forced item loss. Rise of Gen 4 Clefable is also later-Gen informed imo.
@delphoxxthevulpera68
Жыл бұрын
There is definitely some hindsight bias.
@EnergyBurst2
Жыл бұрын
I remember people calling me crazy for thinking thief was good back in the day.
@spencerweiss6337
Жыл бұрын
You’re absolutely correct. I remember King’s Rock being extremely popular because a timely flinch could change the battle completely. And people in general were more focused on how to counter the meta and figure out ways to beat other weather teams
@theimpersonator7086
Жыл бұрын
BKC after hearing this news: "Everything is going according to the plan. Soon BW Ou will be a fair and balanced competitive metagame, all without me needing to throw a direct coup and go dictator mode on the tier." BKC is Emperor Palpatine for Smogon, confirmed. Memes aside, I love Gen 5 but what drugs were GF on when they made some of the stuff in the games. From Drizzle/Drought on normal pokemon, Gems, Regenerator, etc
@sephikong8323
Жыл бұрын
If only Keldeo and Reuniclus were to follow suit 😔
@TheBestFormOfHumor
Жыл бұрын
Think we've got a few more bans to go until he actually has faith in the tier
@maagic2031
Жыл бұрын
I think BW was affected by it being the first gen developed while VGC was up and running. Gamefreak or TPC (probably the latter) likely wanted big and explosive matches that would catch the eyes of casuals who would normally have no interest in competitive pokemon. So you get stuff like nuke mons, broken set up sweepers, gems, weather wars, trick room spam, etc. Makes the game a lot more fun on a casual spectator level, even if competitiors might find it a little frustrating.
@PokeGus1
Жыл бұрын
Don't forget Shadow Tag Chandelure! (Technically, though it was never released and it's HA changed in Gen 6)
@Juli_is_Online
Жыл бұрын
What’s wrong with Weather abilities on Normal Pokémon? It’s not like it makes Ninetales and Politoed broken, without the weather they kinda suck
@IndigoEuphonium
Жыл бұрын
War flashbacks to Normal Gem + Explosion and Flying Gem + Acrobatics
@0liviaSama
Жыл бұрын
As someone who wasn't around the competitive scene until generation 6, I always assumed that gems were 1.3x like how modern normal gem functions. Do you think that if gems were ever back in the game with the modern 1.3x boost similar to how normal gem currently functions, that they'd be allowable?
@neog8029
Жыл бұрын
Probably not, because at 1.3x boost, Life Orb is better in just about every use case. Edit: Whoops. Misread allowable as viable somehow.
@grunkleg.3110
Жыл бұрын
I think you'd see some niche Gem usage, at least some Flying Gem Acrobatics, and/or Gem + Unburden. Essentially, what made Gems so good was that had the reward of a Choice item with a few added benefits, while not having enough drawbacks to compensate. Life Orb's drawback is not nearly as harsh as a Choice item's, or even a Gem arguably, so you'd rather just have your moves be 30% stronger at all times. Edit: I think you could make a case for Gems being decent in the lower tiers of Sw/Sh, where everyone and their grandpa is packing Poltergeist or Knock Off. A lot of Pokemon down there run no item to avoid these moves, so why not use a conumable Life Orb that you can activate at any time?
@Mustache99
Жыл бұрын
They should probably limit to one gem to a team, like z-moves, mega or dynamax then it would be acceptable even at their original modifier
@watergaming7543
Жыл бұрын
All I see with that is Flying gem Hawlucha
@DidierPilon
Жыл бұрын
@@grunkleg.3110 i mean, some people run their psychic types itemless to avoid poltergeist damage and reduce knock off damage. Having an easily consumable item would be an improvement. Édit: you said that already. Haha sorry
@hikerclarence7092
Жыл бұрын
I was around bw since the beginning. Gems were actually kind of a gimmick at the start. I mostly just remember normal gem explosion. It wasn't until late bw2 when sd rock gem terrak popped up as a way to beat slowbro among other things like latios etc. I think the late meta developments might have also had the benefit of hindsight after gen 7 taught us the value of a one time nuke
@Fentanylexporter
Жыл бұрын
Idk gems were so fun to use. They are proto Z moves n they were useful to break through water or steel walls
@jerry3115
Жыл бұрын
yeah but putting them on more than one pokemon makes them a bit of a problem
@theimpersonator7086
Жыл бұрын
I mean yes, but BW Ou specifically has plenty of extremely powerful offensive threats that can destroy your team if you dont prep for them. Like the main complaint about the tier is that there are so many threats that the meta itself turns into a matchup fish.
@Volcaking._1
Жыл бұрын
was water always OP walls?
@tomatogenesis
Жыл бұрын
@@jerry3115 If that was the problem, they could've just limited you to have just one instead of banning them outright.
@darthhydreigon820
Жыл бұрын
@@tomatogenesis complex bans are avoided.... gems are the problem so get rid of the problem..... it could bite them in the future and make tiering a pain in the future
@Primal_Necrozma
Жыл бұрын
I can see Freezai abusing Gems once he starts to do BW and BW2 Littlelocke or just outright ban it cause you can litterally farm these things with ease (only if you're lucky enough to get the right type though)
@darkfiredragon3410
Жыл бұрын
You don't even need luck for farming gems tbh; you can just run around in a cave for a couple days and get a metric ton of those things.
@antoniopedro9069
Жыл бұрын
Video suggestion: Why some pokemon are bad in normal tiers but are very good in monotype
@sptflcrw8583
Жыл бұрын
Two reasons. One, less options, two Team synergy.
@antoniopedro9069
Жыл бұрын
@@sptflcrw8583 And other thing i noticed is for example: a pokemon with dual typing is bad, but when one of the types (or an ability) gets an immunity for a weakness of the other type it gets a good niche in that monotype.
@nicolaistuhlmuller8718
Жыл бұрын
Exactly, something like Cradily doesn't stand out usually but on mono grass teams it provides an answer to fire, flying, bug and poison, that's crazily powerful.
@nicelop_
Жыл бұрын
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 it's *cradily* powerful
@TheGhostFart
Жыл бұрын
@@nicelop_ get out
@smallman9787
Жыл бұрын
I remember as a kid using rock gem Sceptile on showdown a couple times. I was really bad at teambuilding ofc but I think sceptile's hidden ability raised it's speed when an item was consumed, so it would come in, lure out whatever check, and rock gem rock slide would do a good bit and if it wasn't finished it would get outsped
@johnmartinez7440
Жыл бұрын
Gem + Unburden was the only time I remember seeing it often, especially when you could only use Normal Gem. Fake Out Hitmonlee was quite common I think. Didn't realise it broke Cloyster with link moves.
@smallman9787
Жыл бұрын
@@johnmartinez7440 Fake out unburden hitmonlee sounds hilarious, was it an anti lead?
@Dakress23
Жыл бұрын
Oh wow so that's why only normal gen survived past gen 5 (and even then, very nerfed)? Damn. I always liked them as an item and while I knew of how much they beefed up attacks, its effect also applying on multi-hit moves as a whole is news to me.
@GravityIsFalling
Жыл бұрын
Well *this* is probably not why it was removed It was removed bc of its effect on gen 5 VGC, and it wasn’t because of gem boosted multi hit moves But generally, yeah it’s bc it was a bit too strong (then they added mega kang…so idk maybe GF is just constantly high)
@zad_rasera
Жыл бұрын
@@GravityIsFalling What was it's effect on gen 5 VGC?
@seanscott2677
Жыл бұрын
@@GravityIsFalling yeah gems were all the rage in VGC, and GF only really cares about what's breaking their competitive metagame, so they can balance VGC. They saw how good gems were there and said "whoops yeah we messed up, we'll just remove them in X/Y so we don't have to worry about this again"
@joemomma2218
Жыл бұрын
Gen 5 VGC were the whole reason they were removed, not this. Gem boosted Draco was nuts in both VGC and single.
@priestesslucy3299
Жыл бұрын
The real reason it was removed is because the focus was on Mega Evolution. Gems were the proto gimmick
@josidfin
Жыл бұрын
quality content as always
@RoninofCrimsonMaple
Жыл бұрын
Can you give some info on Charizard and Moltres moving up to OU lately or why Infernapes experiencing huge drop off in Gen 4 OU?
@sptflcrw8583
Жыл бұрын
Neither are ou?
@RoninofCrimsonMaple
Жыл бұрын
@@sptflcrw8583 Zard and Moltres are now in Gen 3 OU. sorry, shouldve specified.
@GIR177
Жыл бұрын
BKC has videos on that, though Freezai's take would be a lot shorter.
@adrianclamens6679
Жыл бұрын
Bkc made a great detailed video on the rise of Moltres. Pretty much the same thing applies to Charizard who has weaker stats but access to focus punch to bypass Blissey
@RoninofCrimsonMaple
Жыл бұрын
@@adrianclamens6679 We always new Focus Punch though. Its a tale as old as time. Por que? Focus Punch in Gen 3 Ou? And I recall him playing zard in gen3ou with breloom years ago, not so much as officially moving into ou.
@tomatogenesis
Жыл бұрын
Rest in Peace FG Acrobatics Scizor...you will be missed.
@sagacious03
Жыл бұрын
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
@superiortroodon3112
Жыл бұрын
This video makes me wonder about the new mechanic in scarlet and violet, terrastilizing. The idea is that the Pokémon, till the end of the battle or till it’s knocked out, gets a boost to a specific type. It could be it’s own type or another one entirely, and while im not sure how strong exactly is the boost it likely would be a STAB boost (1.5x boost). I initially thought this new mechanic wouldn’t be broken in competitive but maybe it would be. After all it could mean powerful setup sweepers get access to nuke stab moves, or even get stab on a third type with no drawbacks, that could just make the competitive scene very chaotic, maybe not as much as dynamax, but it certainly is more powerful than even the gems were in gen 5, and possibly even more than the one time z moves. There’s still a lot we don’t know about the new mechanic, so we’ll have to wait to see.
@maxspecs
Жыл бұрын
I truly miss the raw power of Flying Gem Acrobatics. Used it on Archeops and blew my friends away. Shout outs to Lickilicky’s Normal Gem Explosions too.
@Quasartist
Жыл бұрын
Man gems are honestly my favorite mechanic of gen 5. Sad to see them gone not only in gen 6, but now on Showdown as well. Wish they would make a return. After all, someone at Gamefreak looked at Zaician and thought "yeah send it boys 😎 " and then went a step further with some of the DLC stuff. I'll never understand Gamefreak's weird thought process. I think they should have just made it to where you can only have 1 on a team and it nullifies any others you have after usage. But with that in mind, I think keeping it at 1.5x power boost would be fine. After that it's just another run of the mill Shell Smash Cloyster or Beat Up Weavile. Regarding the power boost for 1 hit vs 5 hits can be debated though.
@athath2010
Жыл бұрын
That's... basically what z-moves are.
@darthhydreigon820
Жыл бұрын
complex bans for limiting smth for 1 per team... is usually avoided... bp was made like that was still uncompetetive and had to go through many readjustments. Volc is still broken with gems and so is cloyster and its still a guessing game ..
@Quasartist
Жыл бұрын
@@athath2010 nah gems are vulnerable to Trick, Switcharoo, Covet, Knock Off, Imprison, etc, and can still miss. Also only buff offensive moves. You're oversimplifying it.
@nazra1127
Жыл бұрын
this I like, keep up the good work freezai
@peterh2223
Жыл бұрын
Hopefully, we will soon get "Why was Keldeo banned in competitive Generation 5 Pokemon"
@cashflow559
Жыл бұрын
Just wanted you to know I started a Smogon account and built a rain team (Gen 7 OU) and a LC team. Having a lot of fun. Thanks Freezai.
@SuperPokekami
Жыл бұрын
Great video, one thing you missed was the ability of gems to trigger abilities like unburden and moxie to help you snowball
@KonstantinValentix
Жыл бұрын
Unburden isn't relevant in gen 5 ou
@KonstantinValentix
Жыл бұрын
Iirc it doesn't even exist
@nicholasneyhart396
Жыл бұрын
I used to run a hybrid cloyster with icicle spear, rock blast, shell smash, and ice shard back in gen 5. For the item it used to have a kings rock, than either an ice or rock gem, and in gen 7 its running a herb set to counteract shell smash defence drop.
@BrettRKS
Жыл бұрын
Great vid Freezai
@mtniemeyer82
Жыл бұрын
I just got a flying gem on my Talonflame in Radical Red and enjoyed the nostalgia of Gen V brokenness
@Thenerd1110
Жыл бұрын
Do you think you could do a video about the implications and effects on competitive with the type changing mechanic coming in the new generation?
@DidierPilon
Жыл бұрын
Back in 2012 I had a top 50 ou team, but I never used a gem in ou. Dragon gem Draco in vgc, for sure. But in long weather wars, it didn’t seem worth it.
@hokostudios
Жыл бұрын
I feel like it'd be interesting to look at what might change if gems ever came back. I feel like in their current state, they'd probably only wind up seeing niche use. There's clearly still value for things like Acrobatics and Unburden, but beyond that, do they really offer enough to justify them over a type item or Life Orb?
@Bananaseeds101
Жыл бұрын
Let’s go new video
@mosesbakst
Жыл бұрын
Cool content idea: Playing showdown randbats or OU ladder but STRICTLY following the gen 3 or gen 4 battle AI.
@jpshy1130
Жыл бұрын
Flying gem acrobatics
@sn0wO
Жыл бұрын
It turns out "can only use once" isn't much of a drawback when using it once can win the game
@junglejuicejuno
Жыл бұрын
Terrastalizing is a little similar to this but its both more balanced by being once per battle and less balanced since it also changes the user’s type
@thesprinkler7893
Жыл бұрын
Finally shown doing work in a freezai vid, we made it
@nimroddafny7125
Жыл бұрын
Ironically reading all of these comments about how Gems should've been complex banned just made me wonder why some complex bans still exist. If banning Drizzle isn't a possibility because novelty is apparently more important than balance and no Swift Swim user has a positive impact on the tier (or any impact for that matter) why bother keeping the latter around? The same question applies for Chlorophyll. Aldaron's proposal sounds like it belongs with RSE UU's recently removed NFE clause.
@shellnut8224
Жыл бұрын
Because getting tiering changes through in old gens can be a bureaucratic mess to deal with, especially in old gens, so rather than spend a ton of time trying to ban Swift Swim and Chlorophyll and changing very little as a result, the council (I presume) would just prefer to stick with the current system and save themselves a lot of time.
@shockdoggo6889
Жыл бұрын
I think the gems should be turned into a single item that just powers up the first move you use in battle. That way you cant use multiple gems and you cant save a certain gem boosted move for later on certain pokemon
@psyxypher3881
Жыл бұрын
Holy crap a lot of creativity goes into those trainer sprites. Damn.
@DedicatedCaffeineUser
Жыл бұрын
Good video, but I would’ve liked if you also explained why the Normal Gem wasn’t banned
@joaqpalma9830
Жыл бұрын
it was in gen 6 beyond ll gems were nerfed and coded but normal gem was the only one allowed
@Zeldrake
Жыл бұрын
5:38 "The brokeness of gems was hiding behind things that were even more broken" I feel like that's competitive Pokemon in a nutshell xD
@MasterArchfiend
Жыл бұрын
Huh. I figured PvP was where gems were used since I never used held items that get used up in the main game. The attack boost didn’t feel worth it when I would have to get replacements over and over. I know that isn’t the case in PvP since the held item returns after the battle, but I also don’t really do competitive PvP, so I still don’t take it seriously enough to consider using them.
@Bullet76_
Жыл бұрын
the amount of people who want to keep gems in this comment section in kinda concerning
@yeet8036
Жыл бұрын
They're screaming about stall in metagame that stall doesn't exists
@eyecontrol4900
Жыл бұрын
most of the people here are casuals or vgc fans
@KirioGameNote
Жыл бұрын
Holy crap, how did I never realize the combination of gems with multi hit moves? I remember people only using king’s rock or white herb on cloyster but an ice gem sounds absolutely absurd on it
@bokaytrebuchet
Жыл бұрын
it was.
@IndexInvestingWithCole
Жыл бұрын
A gem on a multi hit move is the same as a gem on a one hit move
@donniebankoebarkie7916
Жыл бұрын
Can you do a video on why they banned using shiny form of Steelix? alot of ppl dont know about this
@togakhan1274
Жыл бұрын
For those wondering why not ban Z moves as they are literally better Gems. The answer is simple, you can run multiple Gems on the same team. It's not the same but imagine multiple Z-moves on a team? Yikes. One thing I saw people use was Rock Gem Terrakion OHKOing Phys Def Lando T after Rocks and Swords Dance despite Intimidate. Lando T to this day is THE BEST check to Terrak in the game and it could be bypassed like that. Gems were mad broken.
@theimpersonator7086
Жыл бұрын
Z moves themselves got a lot of criticism as well. IIRC there were even talks of them being banworthy at one point in SM/USUM because of they made mons like Kartana or Magearna even dumber.
@N12015
Жыл бұрын
@@theimpersonator7086 As well as being the only generation where Landorus-T was genuinely banworthy because the classical "just bring a grass type" doesn't work against flynium Z. Z-moves in general are just broken but at least they're kinda limited. Gems are LESS BROKEN BUT they can be in every member of your team.
@crobatman4448
Жыл бұрын
@@N12015 then there's d max,which gives you 3 turns of z-move level attacks that can give you stat boosts at the same time. We probably would have had banned to ubers gyarados at some point if that was still around. Actually have anyway made a alternate timeline list of likely bans in the smogon keeps dynamax timeline.
@poejavelski148
Жыл бұрын
Who says gems on multiple mons is a hood thing? A team full of gemed up mons would suck. Only a small handful of gen 5 ou mons had viable gem sets. This ban was so soft.
@vtmagno23
Жыл бұрын
Also the base power is a set increase and does take the full base power of the move into the damage calculation, unlike z moves. A Z Draco Meteor is gonna be 150 base power, a Dragon Gem one is gonna be 210. A Z Icicle Spear will be 120 base power, a Ice Gem Icicle Spear 5 Hit will be 187.5
@YayapLives
Жыл бұрын
Gamefreak: greens were a problem. Also Gamefreak: so I have the coolest idea for the new gens gimmick, guys!
@johnmartinez7440
Жыл бұрын
Just imagining Hawlucha with Acrobatics + Flying Gem + Unburden
@DoctorSpacebar
Жыл бұрын
Even at 1.3x, Gems were a godsend in the challenge runs I've done of Unbound. My Monobug First Stage run made considerable use of them- being able to boost one attack with no caveats is great when that one attack knocks out a key threat. And Unbound lowers the damage to 1.3x since it's got Gen 8 mechanics! Gen 5 gems were utter lunacy.
@henriqueankerkronecaldas7141
Жыл бұрын
There is a clear connection between Gems and the Terastal Crystals. They probably banned them after Gen 5 to better flesh out the idea later (right now)
@IndexInvestingWithCole
Жыл бұрын
No
@carltonleboss
Жыл бұрын
Never knew Gems applied a better boost in Gen 5 than it does now-I always thought it was a 1.3x boost.
@mister_chewy
Жыл бұрын
What if there was a held item that set up weather or a terrain when you send the pokemon out
@xakuray5522
Жыл бұрын
I don't understand how come gems affecting all hits of a multi-hit move is news to anyone? The description even says "move" not "instance of damage". I don't understand how someone could assume otherwise?
@ryanfraser7769
Жыл бұрын
Think of it like damage reducing berries. For instance colbur berry only reduces the damage of the first hit of beat up, and not the subsequent ones
@EmeralBookwise
Жыл бұрын
I would say that Banning gems strips too much unique identity from Gen-5... but then again Dynamxing was likewise banned from Gen 8 :-\
@LordLucario12
Жыл бұрын
Considering both are broken mechanics and both generations still have enough defining aspects to separate them from the rest...the tiers are better off without them
@iantaakalla8180
Жыл бұрын
It’s a good thing then that Galar is such a shitty region that it made people realize how overpowered Gems were by getting people more used to the idea that regional mechanics do not always work in competitive. That and Z-Moves in Alola.
@kingwinifred4393
Жыл бұрын
gen 5 has plenty of identity. If you need a broken gimmicky thing to understand what a generation of comp is all about, you seem really shallow.
@neronerotico
Жыл бұрын
I hope gems come back someday, they were really fun to use and I like them better than Z-Moves. I feel that there's already so much power creep nowadays that gems wouldn't be as crazy in current metas compared to BW.
@The_Psycho_Bad_Boy
Жыл бұрын
Now how are my Bullet Punches in competitive Gen 5 OU gonna hurt huh? My traditional swords dance set can only do so much! Steel Gem helps out my Bullet Punches turn into a NUKE against my enemies!
@solitare4602
Жыл бұрын
Why didn't they just make Gems like Z-Moves? One Gem per team. I don't know if Recycle should be allowed or not though.
@pawedziedzic3250
Жыл бұрын
Where do all these avatars come from? They look amazing
@deoxysandmew2162
Жыл бұрын
Huh, you would think an item that gets a single time use that buffs one attack wouldnt be that great at all...
@TheGhostFart
Жыл бұрын
single use nuke can potentially blow open the opponent's defensive core by deleting that one immovable wall in a single hit basically
@iantaakalla8180
Жыл бұрын
This is also noted as the precursor to Z-Moves, so after all the other op mechanics were removed Gems were the next best thing.
@hppern3971
Жыл бұрын
The entire meta balances on a hinge, and every team you make is vulnerable to getting wrecked by some broken threat. Then the broken threats get that one hit to blast past the normal checks and he'll breaks loose, it's all just match-up fishing noe
@bokaytrebuchet
Жыл бұрын
+1 252 SpA Bug Gem Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 356-422 (88.1 - 104.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
@jamanger
Жыл бұрын
i’ve never once in my life played pokémon showdown. but goddamn do i love your videos. unfortunately they are the sole reasoning why i will never have enough confidence to play showdown in fear of being absolutely embarrassed lmaooo
@minermike2492
Жыл бұрын
Regardless its still a fun time even if your bad
@scritis
Жыл бұрын
It's pretty fun, give it a try, strats in low tiers like PU/ZU are really a cool thing to play around
@bokaytrebuchet
Жыл бұрын
just play random battles to start so you dont have to teambuild immediately. ultimately you want to build up to that (which is the most fun part imo) but you can get the basics from whichever gen u like most’s random battles. if you want to play ou then resources exist on smogons ruins of alph for all past gen tiers and are everywhere for current gen
@scritis
Жыл бұрын
@@bokaytrebuchet you don't need to play rdb if you already played the game. It is more useful to ask help in specific rooms and to watch matches of high elo players
@jamanger
Жыл бұрын
@@bokaytrebuchet team building is fortunately my strong suit lol. it’s actually when i utilize the strat and mons that im absolute poo poo
@kwayke9
Жыл бұрын
"What if Z moves took some steroids?" Jokes aside, being able to use more than one gem is really what breaks them. Game Freak was actually ahead of us, this time. Good job
@bokaytrebuchet
Жыл бұрын
i think its less-so the amount of gems as it is the specific circumstances that gen 5 ou has that make them overwhelming, there are better/more defensive options that arent feasible in the volatile gen 5 metagame in gen 7. if they were in gen 7 they mightve also been broken (idk) but in gen 5 they made like 4ish specific pokémon overrun their only defensive checks. if u wanted to check both psychic and bug gem volc then u needed two diff pokemon to do it for example same goes for all the diff 50/50 gem sets. the main issue is all of the adjustments you could make that help you win against gem hyper offense teams made you far worse off against both opposing sand teams and opposing rain teams (the other two team formats in the meta) so u literally cant build a team that matches up okay into all of those structures, making for a really flashy game of rock paper scissors.
@IceBlueLugia
Жыл бұрын
I remember thinking they seemed so useless in-game and I sorta assumed the same applied to competitive, since I never got into competitive till Gen 6 when they weren’t really around anymore. Surprising to hear how busted they were but it makes sense
@assortedcave7408
Жыл бұрын
So how effective would a Linoone with Belly Drum, Espeed and a Normal Gem be? If you could set up previously with a mom that sleeps and mementos, giving Linoone the free Belly Drum turn? Could it one-shot everything with the 5.3x attack STAB priority move?
@yeet8036
Жыл бұрын
You could try it in lower tiers,there's gems are legal
@hppern3971
Жыл бұрын
Makes setup even harder though, which is Linoone's biggest issue
@kingwinifred4393
Жыл бұрын
no, plenty of things still live it. besides, it's easy to sac something already weakned to the boosted hit.
@NightmareSyndrom
Жыл бұрын
Huh, I just remember Gems for Flying Gem Acrobatics nuking an enemy mon out of existence.
@lyonnaismatt
Жыл бұрын
That's one heck of an abrupt ending
@slothape
Жыл бұрын
I was there at the beginning of Gen 5 with Archeops and the flying gem.
@kanrakucheese
Жыл бұрын
Can you do a video on non-Evolite NFEs in higher tiers? Wynaut banned to ubers would be an obligatory mention.
@Vexal50
Жыл бұрын
In Wynaut's case I believe thats specifically just due to shadow tag being banned and it having no other possible abilities. I think seeing a video on indirect bans would be neat though
@kanrakucheese
Жыл бұрын
@@Vexal50 I know, but it's a standout in the category.
@TheMetakev
Жыл бұрын
I only got into competitive Pokemon content after gen 6 so hearing about gen 5 being host to a bunch of migraine inducing broken strategies feels like someone describing the wild west to me.
@mintyerb
Жыл бұрын
flying gem + acrobatics archeops *chef kiss*
@PillzmansFox
Жыл бұрын
So is gen 5 now the gen with the most in-game stuff banned now?
@iantaakalla8180
Жыл бұрын
Yes, and it’s even more guaranteed because there is still the issue of the rock/paper/scissors meta that banning gems would really expose.
@MarkelESP
Жыл бұрын
Why is there Yor in Pokémon Showdown??
@taylorester2658
Жыл бұрын
Do you think gems would be broken still if you could only have one per team?
@joaqpalma9830
Жыл бұрын
well ask z moves
@asdfniofanuiafabuiohui3977
Жыл бұрын
Wouldn't you say that it only applying to a single attack makes it more balanced? If you play it poorly then you've wasted the use of the gem, compared to a choice item which one wrong move or using the move at the wrong moment won't be wasted. Is the advantage of ohko-ing an enemy pokemon via use of the move, then being weaker the rest of the battle but with full choice, compared to having a smoother strength, but being locked into one move or switch, really that strong? I mean, rather than compare it to choice items, it should be compared to life orb. Life orb you can boost yourself and deal the damage, so you're exchanging a permanent 1.3 times boost at the cost of 10% hp per attack for a higher 1.5 times boost once per battle per pokemon. If a pokemon is using a stab-gem, they're basically forced to use non stab moves, which won't deal that much damage even with a boost. Seems like the problem is of high level play, on low levels there's not enough skill to make not wasting the gem common, so it isn't that busted. With teams pokemon x is super strong but has 1 pokemon on the enemy team which counters it, normally that would be an issue, but when you have another pokemon that can oneshot its counter, that enables the original pokemon to be strong and bypass its counters. It doesn't matter if the second pokemon is weak af after oneshotting, its purpose was to remove the original pokemon's counters.
@joaqpalma9830
Жыл бұрын
hear me out people can predict and are not that stupid
@juanmanuelbarbier8639
Жыл бұрын
I remember early gen 6 ou metagame when we thought gems would be available how fun it was to play unburden flying gem hawlucha with acrobatics
@arrisam2574
Жыл бұрын
Gen 6-wise, Talonflame would also be a huge winner - its bulky BU Acrobatics set can actually now run an item that makes it can fire of something that basically is almost as strong as CB Brave Bird with zero drawbacks
@armlesskirby
Жыл бұрын
I remember back in the day no one seemed to ever use any gem except for flying with acrobatics. I remember when Gen 7 first showed off z moves thinking isn't this the same as gems? There's no way this will be useful
@Mepphy99
Жыл бұрын
i think the biggest problem with gems is that BW OU was Always a problematic meta which died and Need a rebuilt After a lot of time so yeah gems which could have been as ok, now are being seriously considered bad
@MrZer093
Жыл бұрын
It’s kinda funny how many changes they made to make the game more competitive focused in the multiplayer aspect but gen 5 is seen as the gen that didn’t really do much. I guess it was that? Gen 2 added weather and items, gen 3 added abilities and doubles, gen 4 added the physical special split, and gen 6 onwards added a new battle mechanic each time. None of the new battle types in gen 5 took off but hidden abilities and competitive revamp are sure something huh?
@LordLucario12
Жыл бұрын
I would say introducing some of the most important Pokémon in competitive history is pretty damn big
@iantaakalla8180
Жыл бұрын
I find it fitting that the region based off of mainland America is always at war combating the new broken threat in a never-ending gauntlet and the opinions are the most divided there. It wouldn’t be America without a life-altering, existentialist, bitter war about how to do anything, wouldn’t it?
@SuperEljafru
Жыл бұрын
imagine having a choice band but only for whenever you needed it
@MariokibmibYT
Жыл бұрын
Wait. Gems give the same boost as stab moves?
@SUPERMA5TER
Жыл бұрын
I highly appreciate a pokemon youtuber that doesn't sound like they themselves are on 2x speed lol 😂😂😂
@cordellmosby527
Жыл бұрын
idk havent seen any on top ladder except in gen 7 with normal gem explosion
@AMereFool
Жыл бұрын
0:43 thunderblunder777 the agency represents
@gio9255
Жыл бұрын
Now that I think about it, gems are returning in Scarlet/Violet as terrastalizing forms but with much needed concessions, such as losing dual typing and being limited to one terra mon per match. I completely forgot Gems existed pass Gen VI. I always found their spawns in caves way too rare and found sand and rain much more impactful to the Gen V meta. To hear sleep has been banned in Gen V just goes to show why status moves were so heavily nerfed in future gens.
@iantaakalla8180
Жыл бұрын
Still, it will be nice to see Ice and Rock Pokémon Terastalized into a far better typing.
@gratedshtick
Жыл бұрын
I was wondering why Piloswine is preferred in Ice monotype
@cheruledge
Жыл бұрын
Eviolite + thick fat makes it one of the few “defensive” pieces on ice teams besides avalugg
@Metaknighttheloneswordsman
Жыл бұрын
@@cheruledge I'm sorry, but Avalugg is a joke, even with good hp and defense,it's pure ice so it barely switches into resisted hits and absolutely crumbles neutral and super effective special moves.
I'm glad they learned from this and never introduced a type of crystal that gives you super powerful moves of a particular type ever again.
@alinepiroutek8932
Жыл бұрын
I can't believe the Gems were broken
@PrinceK0mali
Жыл бұрын
Don't know how competitive it was because you know, casual player, but I remember really enjoying the power boost a flying gem gave Acrobatics because the move would check it no item was there after the gem was consumed.
@bokaytrebuchet
Жыл бұрын
it was not even semi viable in ou at least maybe lower tiers potentially
@hppern3971
Жыл бұрын
Didn't have any major users in OU, lower tiera had Pokemon using it though. RU had a couple of them
@greyscaleadaven
Жыл бұрын
@@hppern3971 Doesn't that mean they'd still be usable in lower tiers? Like is this a tier wide banning or just for OU?
@hppern3971
Жыл бұрын
@@greyscaleadaven dunno off the top of my head, past gen bans don't always transfer down
@greyscaleadaven
Жыл бұрын
@@hppern3971 I saw someone in the comments saying that they can still use it in RU for some reason so maybe it was just specifically OU??? Idk
@halohawkxx
Жыл бұрын
Damn... so I was the only one back in the day who consistently used Gems during my Online/Wifi Pkmon League runs 🤣🤣🤣 glad I was the one who knew of it being broken and kept it to myself haha (least back during the BW 1 & 2 years).
@shinjinator100
Жыл бұрын
I loved using these in DS era
@drakethompson5585
Жыл бұрын
Tbh it just feels like they’re willing to try anything to try and save/fix gen 5 meta at this point
@exotericidymnic3530
Жыл бұрын
from what I heard, nobody even thought gems would be good until they saw how good z-moves were in gen7.
@John-yk4bp
Жыл бұрын
Why is it problematic that it boosts every hit of a multi-hit move? The base power is adjusted for it. It's about as much of a power boost as something like close combat gets from a fighting gem?
@LordLucario12
Жыл бұрын
Because it turns an already strong move into an absurdly strong move that can break past counters and has literally ZERO downsides
@bokaytrebuchet
Жыл бұрын
gems make them kills things they would otherwise be checked by. gems set otherwise managable mons like cloyster and breloom over the edge bc of their strong multihit moves, but they also set other otherwise manageable mons like volcarona and latios over the edge for their non multihit moves. its not bc theyre multihit some just happen to be. showdown previously mightve had it only work on the first hit so it wasnt as much damage. showdown isnt always right sometimes discoveries are made in the original cartridge games and the simulator is adjusted accordingly. edit: latios is debatably “otherwise manageable”
@PokeMaster22222
Жыл бұрын
I still don't understand how these could be worth it outside of Acrobatics or Unburden - once it's used up, you're itemless, which is quite detrimental. You don't have Life Orb's constant power boost, Leftovers recovery, or anything else. Plus Cloyster's Rock Blast has a 10% miss chance, meaning that one specifically could just be wasted.
@yeet8036
Жыл бұрын
Acrobatics is niche and only used on scizor (which prefers band) or gliscor (which prefers toxic orb) and no unburden pokemon is good in ou. The pokemon that have gems are using it to bypass checks,like volc,cloyster,latios and breloom and that one boost can change the game. And also knock off was bad,and is only used on ferrothorn. (Which can't safely switch into them)
@bokaytrebuchet
Жыл бұрын
theyre strong because they are basically a choice band/choice specs but you can also use a boosting move. the main gem abusers were volcarona, latios, dragonite, cloyster, breloom, and sometimes other dumb shit like keldeo keld and lati have calm mind volc has quiver dance dragonite has dragon dance cloyster has shell smash breloom has swords dance gems work because you dont need to have sustained boosts like the other boosting items give you, all you need to do is boost once and then you effectively have something like two boosts on your first hit. to highlight why this is broken: +1 252 SpA Bug Gem Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 356-422 (88.1 - 104.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock you cant give volc even ONE boost or it will 1 shot its only easily slappable defensive check. (heatran isnt even safe hp ground will ohko it too) yes you can switch to absorb them gen with something else but if volc quiver dances again then the game is as good as over.
@Eidolon5150
Жыл бұрын
I loved gems. Normal gem explosion was the meme of memes
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