When he talks about visiting Thailand and it being "spirituality and mythology mixed with technology and robots" that is not unlike how i felt about many of the places i visited in southeast asia during my stint in the navy. But when you think about it for two seconds it becomes clear how you are exotifying these places when you do this. The cities that still stick out to me the most as "holy crap this is huge" are Kuala Lumpur, Hong Kong, and Tokyo, and in all of these places the massive skyscrapers and bullet trains sit amongst things like temples and shrines that look like something you would see overgrown with vines in an indiana jones movie, so you get this sensation of the past and the future blending together. Here's the thing about that though, walk around in london and you'll see the same thing, skyscraper, skyscraper, skyscraper, 500 year old church. The only difference is that gothic cathedrals aren't seen as exotic so, while they may be cool to look at, no one looks at western cities with old religious sites or modern religious sites built in an old timey style as "mixing mythology with robots". Its just a city with different architectural styles that have developed over the centuries it has been there. We only see it that way in asia because of how exotic some of these architectural styles are from our perspective and the fact that most of our exposure to them comes from media that portray them a certain way, so when you find a temple that tv has told you should be hidden away in a valley in Tibet sitting next to a train stop downtown, it hits you in a way that a church in a similar city in a western country wouldnt, even though they are the exact same thing.
@vincent67239
Жыл бұрын
I like the way you explained this. Thanks
@hellacoorinna9995
6 ай бұрын
_"The only difference is that gothic cathedrals aren't seen as exotic so"_ Familarity breeds contempt.
@custardstuff5178
Жыл бұрын
The sad thing is it could have been so easily avoided. If "New Asia" was a military and economic partnership like the EU but each country kept it's individual identity it would have made sense.
@lolasdm6959
Жыл бұрын
Actually the Republic of China signed a pact with the US prior to the Chinese civil war, where a Trans-Pacific Union would have formed, it's pretty similar to the EU only it would basically become a insanely powerful block, USSR would have stood zero chance. Only issue was Chiang was too incompetent, the communists had him by the balls, the US actually tried replacing him 5 times....
@Tareltonlives
Жыл бұрын
The wild thing is that Edwards' big hit Rogue One is all about the fragility of alliances and the bonds that need to be formed to combat totalitarianism and literal imperialism. The alliance is fragile, trembling, at the point of collapse. What if this happened to New Asia? Muslims, Hindus Buddhists and Christians having to overcome their prejudices, North and South Koreans confronted that their emnity is obsolete, China going from the top of the world back to the bottom, and being forced to confront their past as the imperialists, Japanese being forced from their isolationism and navel-gazing to save others as well as themselves, Malaysia and Indonesia, not only having internal divisions but a rivalry with each other, being confronted with a need to unify. Make it a movie about teamwork, about putting aside prejudice and pride and nationalism.
@armareum
Жыл бұрын
Seems like the director wanted to critique american imperialism, using western cultural imperialism. Ironic.
@SeasideDetective2
Жыл бұрын
Yes, we Americans have always insisted that we are anti-imperialist, that we don't want to rule foreign peoples. Yet our culture has effectively colonized many countries. (Of course, it can be argued that we in turn have been culturally colonized by countries like Mexico, India, and Japan.)
@MoMo-rx4zr
Жыл бұрын
I found it to be a serious problem with the European “left” in general. Garett Edwards still looks at Asia through a Colonial European lense, even while critiquing the more blatant American imperialism
@PotatoKing86
Жыл бұрын
@@SeasideDetective2real
@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342
Жыл бұрын
lol whoopz. Hate it when that happens! (all the damn time lol)
@estacion7386
Жыл бұрын
@@SeasideDetective2Americas are culturally colonised by Mexico? Like... how? You don't even know how to make tacos😂😂😂, you don't know how much cultures besides the Mexican are, like 400 tribes around the country, you only celebrate 5 of may because you hated the French, not because you like mexicans xD and come on, the main say of my country is "today for you, tomorrow for me" totally not American, we are your Yang, 😂😂😂
@robertpetre9378
Жыл бұрын
I’d definitely say that Star Wars has a lot of orientalism looking past the whole samurai aesthetic when it comes to the Jedi knights. A lot of the costumes in a prequel trilogy were inspired by different Southeast Asia and traditional costumes specifically the numerous outfits worn by Padme Amadala.
@jimmyvau
Жыл бұрын
Every member of the Trade Federation sounded like they were voiced by a white dude making an "Asian" accent.
@robertpetre9378
Жыл бұрын
@@jimmyvau either Japanese or Chinese but I think that George Lucas said that Thai was his inspiration
@robertpetre9378
Жыл бұрын
@@idklol-cw5fl George Lucas took inspiration from different southeast Asian cultures without giving them credit or acknowledging where he got the inspiration from in a weird homogenous way, which basically is orientalist in nature. All of the dresses and costumes appearing in the Star Wars series were inspired by different Asian cultures from Mongolia to Japan to mainland China to Taiwan, and it’s no surprise that he is guilty of some sort of cultural appropriation. by creating a homogenous Asian culture and have it in space only others southeast Asian people even more.
@Tareltonlives
Жыл бұрын
Star Wars is inherently orientalist, but not so guilty of this particular narrative. You have the Beduoin inspired barbarians, the Turkish gangsters, the Thai capitalists, Ottoman Slavery etc, but I don't see this particular narrative except in a minor way in Return of the Jedi where the Ewoks save the day but it's Han and Chewie that with the fight in the end. I don't think it's appropriation in the strict sense; Lucas is honest about his inspiration. Now can it be considered appropriation? Toshiro Mifune thought so. Akira Kurosawa didn't. There is no single homogeneous Asian inspired culture. Tatooine is vaguely middle eastern, but it's not really fitting the stereotype without also including Wild West Colonialism. Naboo has some Indian and Japanese influence, but it's also very much Italian and the people themselves are a wide mix of Indian, British, Israeli, New Zealand, etc. Lucas mixes and matches and takes bits of everything to blur the lines of cultural identity. You can't really point and go "these are the Japanese". We have this reflected in Edward's Rogue One. There's the big multiethnic cast, but they don't really have any connection with their historical backgrounds. Sure, a Mexican, a Pakistani, Chinese and British actors make up the main team fighting British villains, but the story and the placement of the characters doesn't really have to do with any stereotypes or with any grand statement other than imperialism bad. It's colonialist and orientalist, but in a more vague way. The Force itself is vaguely Buddhist, but has other aspects that don't make it the same. I think the dissociation with actual history is a double edged sword- on one hand real cultural values are taken out of context, but on the other hand it really doesn't say anything about the actual cultures and there's never any one to one stereotype. Thai accents because cool. Greek accent because cool. Quechua-inspired language because cool.
@arcturionblade1077
11 ай бұрын
@@idklol-cw5flIt's problematic when said accents and culturally aesthetic cues are used in a negative context. The Trade Federation aliens who spoke with vaguely Asian accents, they were objectively painted as being the bad guys in all three Prequel movies because Separatists bad, Republic good. The aliens are portrayed as conniving, cowardly, sneaky , and greedy manipulators (who themselves were being manipulated by the Sith to foment secession leading up to the Clone Wars). Watto also had some very obvious Jewish stereotypes built into his character design, with the long nose, and greedy and sneaky personality on top of his over the top voice performance. Lucas is not known for his subtlety when it comes to using the negative racist tropes in Star Wars.
@sharimeline3077
Жыл бұрын
I did an Art History degree and we read Said's Orientalism. When I tell ignorant people to "read a book" or "go to school," Orientalism is always looming in my mind.
@spellman007
Жыл бұрын
That book is anti Marxist. Read Chibber.
@bravetherainbow
Жыл бұрын
Why don't you just tell them to read that then
@sharimeline3077
Жыл бұрын
@@bravetherainbow I have. But generally I tell them to go to school.
@maybeyourbaby6486
Жыл бұрын
I just ordered it right now 😅
@sharimeline3077
Жыл бұрын
@@maybeyourbaby6486 Hope you like scholarly books! It has opened a lot of people's eyes, it's a very good read.
@gussiejives
Жыл бұрын
It really can’t be overstated how much the fear of Japanese industry was in the late 80s, early 90s, particularly as North America was in a deep recession around 1990. The 2015 depicted in Back to the Future II is textbook techno-Orientalism, complete with Marty’s angry Japanese boss and plenty of other more subtle Japanese influences, like the rising sun tie that Marty wears. Hell, even Hot Shots Part Deux had a jab at the supremacy of the Japanese automakers. The mid-90s crash that Japan never really recovered from must have felt like a godsend to US industry. It certainly was to its cultural output as we definitely saw less “the Japanese are taking over” stuff after 1996.
@arcturionblade1077
11 ай бұрын
Now it's been replaced by Sinophobia with the economic and military rise of China, and the CCP flexing its muscles and swinging its dick around the Pacific. Hollywood has this love/hate relationship with the Far East, and now kowtowing to the CCP with self censorship so they don't step on their toes for fear of getting their movie banned in China (ironically, China severely curates and limits the number of Western films that can be released in the Chinese market for viewing).
@AeonPhoenix
11 ай бұрын
While this may sound absurd, but I think the West screwed up Japan on purpose with the Paris Accords and the subsequent lost generation of the 90s.
@queeniegreengrass3513
11 ай бұрын
Didn't they engineer the crash? By inflating the economy?
@AeonPhoenix
11 ай бұрын
@@queeniegreengrass3513 Yes, but I can't help but think that someone from the US influenced their decision making and intentionally crashed the economy back then.
@saltythebear
Жыл бұрын
You mentioned briefly James Hong, who you know "i just do eyes" in Blade Runner. It's always funny he's seen as the quintessential "Asian-American" Character actor since he's been around so long and just constantly in roles for decades and decades. Everyone assumes he probably immigrated in the 70s etc, a very common story. He's from Minnesota. Born and raised, Minneapolis where I also grew up. I love character actors so I've actually seen him twice at public talks and a convention out here. Met him. It's always amazing he says how people expect stories about the old country, the oriental East from his youth but he just shrugs cos he doesnt have any shit like that to talk about. But he can tell you all about his crazy acting career! Or how much Minneapolis has changed since he was a kid, but apologizes that no he doesn't know, firsthand, what growing up in China was like. Because he just "seems so authentic" "I'm an actor.."😂 though is his reply
@eddierascalhaskell4954
Жыл бұрын
James Hong, Mako, and Kim Chan are my favorite "older guy" Asian character actors. Pat Morita is in a class of his own tho.
@arcturionblade1077
11 ай бұрын
@@eddierascalhaskell4954I'd add Paul Sun-Hyung Lee (of Kim's Convenience fame) to the list of new Asian character actors. That's why I love his Star Wars character Captain Carson Teva so much. It goes against type and Teva is just this earnest and incorruptible everyman that your average working Joe can relate to.
@eddierascalhaskell4954
11 ай бұрын
But those are *my* fav "older guy" Asian actors...I'm not familiar with the one you mentioned because A. I havent seen anything Star Wars related since Revenge of the Sith, and B. Never watched Kim's Convenience. I'm sure he's a great performer.
@run2cat4run
Жыл бұрын
I notice how not many tend to talk about how British treated India during the British Empire
@PonyJammin
Жыл бұрын
I'm much more a space western fan than cyberpunk, but Akira still has a stranglehold on my mind since I first saw it.
@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342
Жыл бұрын
Nomad is the way lolz
@markboon2024
Жыл бұрын
You should read the Original Akira, Manga. It's a masterpiece.
@Tirgo69
Жыл бұрын
My favorite cyberpunk is probably Jet Set Radio Future. The original game on Dreamcast had a more chilled psychedelic style but it became more grounded, dark, and filled with electronics inspired updates that makes it feel to me like something of a cyberpunk adjacent game. While mostly it is still largely playing on Japanese street art and youth culture, there's more of that gritty cybernetic bad future stuff in there.
@tevbuff
Жыл бұрын
@Tirgo69 I grew up playing that game! The soundtrack is phenomenal too!
@EmpressEris
11 ай бұрын
@@tevbuff That game planted the seeds of my later change from a dumb ass right winger to a dumb ass left winger ;p The sound track was so damn good. Still listen to it :3
@FrozEnbyWolf150
Жыл бұрын
The weird thing is that the novel series I'm writing could be construed as solarpunk, and much of the aesthetic and culture of the futuristic civilization is based on Asian culture. That's because I'm writing what I'm familiar with as an Asian American. Solarpunk is a different vision of the future where humanity has managed to solve the problems of scarcity and sustainability, so it's decidedly more optimistic than cyberpunk.
@andrejg4136
Жыл бұрын
I feel the themes of solarpunk is that our material problems can be solved if we work hard enough, but our problems that are inherent to being flawed mortals will still manifest whenever it can.
@ruplayinggame3080
11 ай бұрын
@@andrejg4136 my vision of solarpunk is that in a non-scarcity, sustainable society, we will be different people with less pettiness and less focus on the ego, still flawed, sure, but we will care more about other people and relationships than we do now. For example: I imagine that in a solarpunk future there will be so much more emphasis on taking care of mental health and treating trauma and so we will be able to deal with each other in much better ways.
@BlueBeetle1939
Жыл бұрын
Shadowrun is the best take on the genre its got all the neon and cyberware but also orcs and magic and anarchist politics i highly recommend Dragonfall to anyone interested in a top down turn based party rpg with that description
@OberstFeldwebel43
Жыл бұрын
Eager 2nd to that sentiment
@juls_krsslr7908
Жыл бұрын
This movie is a good example of why we need diversity in all aspects of life in the US. Most people have huge gaps in understanding and perception when it comes to people they don't know personally - which is not inherently a bad thing, but coupled with the arrogance that you don't have to get to know people or respect them before you express what's in your imagination, these gaps become, at best, embarrassing, and, at worst, deadly. My college roommate was from Taiwan and I quickly learned that people in Asia see themselves as distinct groups and it's not ok to lump them all together as if "Asian" is one culture. One of the first things that really surprised me was, my roommate's grandmother was furious that my roommate signed up for an introductory Japanese language class. This was because her grandmother was a child during the Japanese occupation of Taiwan and she was taken away from her family, given a Japanese name, and forced to learn and speak Japanese. So she basically hated the Japanese and didn't want anything to do with them. My roommate said a lot of older people in Taiwan felt that way. At the time, I didn't even know that the Japanese had occupied Taiwan! Also, my roommate and her Taiwanese friends looked down on people from mainland China. This was in the 90s, so I don't think people have the same attitudes today. But it was interesting that even among people who share a language and ethnicity, there are divisions and differences. They told me they could always tell who was from the mainland, just by their appearance, mannerisms, and speech - something that was not obvious to me. And, then, people from Hong Kong - which was still a British colony at the time - were another entirely different group of Chinese people. And, then, there were differences between people from the northern and southern parts of the mainland. All these differences were something they could just intuitively see, but, as someone from the west, they were invisible to me, even after they explained it to me.
@jinzhihliao7165
11 ай бұрын
These differences don’t really matter imo. I would say just don’t see people as representative of their ethnicity and nationality. See them as who they are as a person. They are not “the Chinese guy” or “the Japanese girl”. They have names and they have personalities. Respect their individuality.
@A-ds1mt
Жыл бұрын
To state that American troops' ideas of Japanese women came from brothels is a bit reductive, but probably the most polite way to describe the situation on KZitem. Rape was so rampant and so feared during the American occupation of Japan that the Japanese Government established the Recreation and Amusement Association (RAA) to provide prostitutes to Allied troops. Many women who worked in the RAA stated that they felt they had an obligation to do so in order to protect the more vulnerable. On two separate incidents, the brothels didn't open their doors in a timely enough fashion, so the Americans broke in and raped all of the women. Occupation Authorities eventually banned prostitution in Japan due to an increase in Venereal Disease among the troops, and attacks rose to over 300 women being raped every day. Troops would pay regular visits to villages that they had previously decimated to demand the village's young girls for the evening and terrorize the small community if they weren't delivered. Visitors from other Asian countries also quickly realized that the Americans couldn't differentiate between the Japanese women and children that they were 'allowed' to rape and any other person who looked remotely Japanese.
@grandempressvicky6387
Жыл бұрын
Jesus Christ. No wonder why American politicians are so allergic to telling children real American history.
@pietersleijpen3662
Жыл бұрын
Interesting, never thought about it as such, just thought cyberpunk was mostly a capatalistic globalism dystopia (and how that makes one big bland Earth) and the image just came from its Japanese origin and how that became part of the cultural image of Cyberpunk (think Ghost in the Shell, Akira).
@Dogtrio
Жыл бұрын
Yeah your original imagination is correct and kav is thinking too hard about it and imo saying asian cultures could never blend in the future geographically or perform their own imperialism in america so its racist to even imply that they would.
@sashakarasawa5794
9 ай бұрын
@@Dogtrio??? racism justified bc they might do it to us in the future? Classic racist propaganda towards Asian. Do better racist 😅
@The_Babe
Жыл бұрын
Shadowrun is incredibly underrated tbh and deserves way more love in modern media
@OberstFeldwebel43
Жыл бұрын
Yes! Greetings chummer, hope your last run went well
@adrianbrodin1319
Жыл бұрын
amen brother or sister where's my fourth game
@achristiananarchist2509
Жыл бұрын
I would make a deal with Lofwyr to get a Shadowrun game with Cyberpunk 2077 graphics and voice acting.
@Kishuy
Жыл бұрын
lol I just typed that. Get a like chummer
@amandarose4469
Жыл бұрын
Yup Atzland is a kick arse take on Mexico.
@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342
Жыл бұрын
As a korean bro who's largely treated like crap or at least treated like I don't exist by many a huwhite people, I appreciate this video sooo much. Thanks Kav!
@liya3453
Жыл бұрын
I remember playing a cyberpunk PS3 game called Remember Me. There was this one NPC that was designed in stereotypical techno-Orientalism and it took me out of the game. Literally no one else dressed like that one character.
@sunyavadin
11 ай бұрын
Which one was that? The main thing that stood out in that game to me was how right up until recovering certain facts, the amnesiac biracial protagonist never realised the woman on all the TV screens modelled on Angela Bassett who looks like an older, darker skinned version of herself in fancy businesswear with an afrofuturism twist, who is married to a white dude was in fact her mother.
@sunyavadin
11 ай бұрын
(Side note -Angela Bassett - REALLY FUCKING GOOD in the highly underrated Strange Days. A cyberpunk narrative that eschews orientalism to instead focus on the colonialism turned inwards of US white supremacy)
@dand1253
Жыл бұрын
With _Neuromancer,_ I remember it being something where the Orientalism is diegetic. Yes, there's a very stereotypical "Asian" bodyguard armed with a katana and a bow - because the hyper-wealthy, totally detached dynasty of the _Terrier-Ashpools_ decided that would be a 'pleasingly exotic' costume to wrap around their vat-grown meat puppet. Likewise, Steppin' Razor has a bad opinion of the yakuza _because they killed her boyfriend._ The actual evils of the setting are the hyper-colonial, hypercapitalist megacorporations, which have siloed themselves away from everything else to the point where they're a culture unto themselves.
@josh-oo
Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure how well it fits into the cyberpunk genre, but there was a Korean movie I saw on Netflix called Jung_E, so that's a possible suggestion for your Southeast Asian cyberpunk list. The premise is that a dead warhero's daughter is in charge of a project to make robot clones of her mom to keep fighting the war.
@ChazTheYouthful
Жыл бұрын
The entire genre sprang from a literary group obsessed with Japan and their technology and economy in the 70s and 80s. It would be nearly impossible to sever that from the motifs and images used as signifiers of the genre. I would not consider it anti asian, they put each continent into blocks. Thus america is one big block, Asia is one, the soviet was one. Honestly many early cyberpunk media made me more interested about exploring those cultures.
@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme
Жыл бұрын
That's definitely a good take on it.
@grapes9h5
Жыл бұрын
Agreed though in biased as a fanboy and aspiring writer
@ChazTheYouthful
Жыл бұрын
@@grapes9h5 I'm not going to say I'm not. I was fed this as a kid and there is definitely a nostalgia bias, but also damn well knowing they were american nerds with minimal exposure. Adding to this is the minimalist approach to writing that it sprang from. It's hard to convey the many cultures of a huge populous continent within a tight narrative structure. It was neon, chrome, splash of word they knew about, sadness.
@olfrud
Жыл бұрын
I love the "Bridge" trilogy by William Gibson. And yeah, you're take is spot on!
@grapes9h5
Жыл бұрын
@@ChazTheYouthful yeah no same is my point. I think Kav said as much too about his own enjoyment of the genre and aesthetic. I think it’s all about execution and giving things actual depth as opposed to just recklessly playing tropes cause they’re “cool” with no awareness of history or politics.
@rubeniscool
Жыл бұрын
I'd argue that in Pondsmith's Cyberpunk, it isn't just Asia but also the US and Europe that has undergone that process of mishmashing and conglomerisation. I mean Eddies anyone? Eurodollars? All the cultures are a mishmash it's just that I think that us Europeans fail to see our own cultures amongst those that stick out to us as being "foreign". What we really see in Cyberpunk is that national identity and ethnicity even, are trumped by Megacorporations and loyalty or disloyalty to them. And on a microscale, gang affiliation. There are just as many references to western pop culture on the table top as there are references to Asian aesthetics and they're just as mixed as the asian references. I'd be interested to see an Asian perspective of how Night City looks to them. Is there just as much western culture that sticks out to them as much as the asian stuff sticks out to us?
@sunyavadin
11 ай бұрын
As a European, a lot of uniquely American culture in it stands out to me. The backstory of the Cyberpunk 20xx universe is really interesting with how the US balkanised in the 90s instead of the USSR.
@rerunroger
Жыл бұрын
Have a look at Beneath a Steel Sky. It's a classic so people might be familiar, but for anyone not exposed, it should be a treat.
@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943
Жыл бұрын
I like me some classic games, so I'll check it out once I am done with another game.
@FallenGemini
Жыл бұрын
Beneath a Steel Sky is great! It is also free on GOG and Steam. Ehat is interesting about the game is that it has the voice talent of a pre-famous Jason Issac doing an American accent. The 2020 sequel follow-up entitled Beyond a Steel Sky was not great unlike its predecessor, but okay. I felt that the game didn't need to be made despite letting know the audiences what have become of the main characters since the first game. The sequel also felt short in both gameplay and story. Sadly, Jason Issac didn't reprised his voice for the sequel, though it is understandable as it would have probably cost a fortune for Revolution to get. Nonetheless, I am happy that the creators of the game, Revolution Software is still around and are now making a 2nd HD remastered of Broken Sword 1 and a new Broken Sword game.
@worldofwilson464
Жыл бұрын
When you travel to different parts of the world, you realise that a lot of the ways in which different countries are dehumanised in the films and TV shows we watch. It's a huge miss that all Vietnam War films are just about the Americans killing innocent Vietnamese villagers en masse or being treated horribly by them. The people of that war in these films are almost never shown despite being a huge part of it. Moreover, I think that Narcos does the same thing with Colombia, showing the country to be a complete mess riddled with criminals that these American characters have the responsibility to sort out. I also did my dissertation on the representation of Latin American people in Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. What I found in these shows was that there was a huge difference between how Walter and Jesse are depicted as being driven into becoming criminals, while Tuco and Lalo are just characters have essentially have no redeeming qualities.
@wren7650
Жыл бұрын
earlier this year, i wrote an essay on the progression of techno-orientalism in sci fi and how we got to where we are. unfortunately, the historical context for techno-orientalism aligns with such pivotal points in sci fi that it's kind of become inseparable from the genre. there's definitely a spectrum of *how* sci fi works approach this. i am planning on watching The Creator, and i'll definitely go into my viewing with this stuff in mind.
@OberstFeldwebel43
Жыл бұрын
I always viewed these things as being multi-cultural and not being really meant about racism. It is a place where racism is rampant (in the literal sense in Shadowrun), however is also a look into how Eastern culture through things like Anime and KPop have come to dominate over others by sheer popularity. Each country having a dominant megacorp (or several) competing for customers, and thereby using their pop culture influence to sell and dominate. Maybe as a Puerto Rican I just don't see it in the right way, I don't know. I always love Cyberpunk stuff, in all forms.
@ratgurl1
Жыл бұрын
the difference is that anime and kpop are primarily made by asian creators! white creators take “inspiration” by cooping, misrepresenting, or falling into stereotypes of asian cultures without input from members of those cultures. there is a long history of western sentiments towards a pan-asian “oriental” with specific tropes that have been studied and criticized by academics. falling into these tropes in 2023 is a failure and a clear indication that asian people were not consulted behind the camera. orientalism subtly and overtly causes violence against asian women and demonization of all asians. it’s definitely still cool to be a fan but you should look into literature about orientalism when you get the chance!
@OberstFeldwebel43
Жыл бұрын
@@ratgurl1 For the record I am not saying that this isn't the case or that this is not a real thing, just to put that out there now. Genuine question here, not trying to be contrarion or just argue, just as a preface. Didn't projects like Cyberpunk and Shadowrun especially have lots of Asian people from several different cultures working on them or designing them? I know at least for 5th and 6th edition of the Shadowrun TTRPG and the two most recent games were done with a lot of input and direct design from Asian creators, was that not the case for Cyberpunk as well? I can find a lot of the designers/artists/playtesters in the books and games for Shadowrun but haven't looked at the Cyberpunk TTRPG to see if it is similar, and I haven't finished the game to see the credits to check there either.
@ratgurl1
Жыл бұрын
@@OberstFeldwebel43 i believe your good intentions!! don’t worry about that :) other than shadowrun: hong kong which seems to have done a really impressive job, all of the shadowrun and cyberpunk ttrpg creators were non-asian from what i can tell. in cyberpunk 2077 and deus ex: human revolution, all of the directors, producers, designers, lead programmers, and writers were from europe and the americas. while “the creator” has some asian and asian-diaspora actors, the director, screenwriters, and producers are all non-asian. what shadowrun: hong kong shows is how important it is for asian voices to have actual power in shaping the story and aesthetics to avoid the very common pitfalls that kav describes, and make the dystopia actually relevant by keeping it politically grounded. asian actors, voice actors, and programmers don’t often have the influence to keep asian representation well-rounded, culturally accurate, and politically realistic, which is why it’s so important to intentionally elevate their voices early on in the story process!
@FallenGemini
Жыл бұрын
From my understanding, the first Diehard movie was also made with anti-Asian sentiment despite being based on the novel; the setting in the novel was at Klaxon Oil, a latge US company. Because anti-Japanese sentiment was prevalent in 1980s America, the setting in the film changed to Nakatomi Tower. If I recall correctly, the director of the film had to add a scene where Hans killed the Nakatomi president due to test screenings rooting for the German terrorist.
@Reid52
Жыл бұрын
It's really hard to detach anti-asian (particularly anti-Japanese) sentiment from the 1980s from WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Of those specifically, the war with Japan was brutal because both sides had adopted scientific racist views and to some extent on both sides had melded the war with a bigger ethnic struggle. The 1980s was of course when Japan's dominance in certain areas of manufacturing were decimating American ones, so all of those old WWII tropes came roaring back. It's natural then that they also found their way into cyberpunk. I do think it's interesting that cyberpunk fiction, which tends to 'expose' the bad sides of modern capitalism, embodies real life problems people encounter, such as their factory closing due to incomprehensible global economic forces. It's unfortunately easy for creators to graft in a little old school racism into those forces. The shift to a more eastern European perspective is interesting, because some EE countries like Romania and Poland have seen substantial quality of life increases in past decades, makes you wonder if that's a bit of the same anxieties as anti-Japanese sentiment recurring with EE.
@SeasideDetective2
Жыл бұрын
I think the national mood during World War II was anti-Japanese, not anti-Asian. In fact, the war had at least one positive effect in that Japanese atrocities aroused sympathy for the Chinese people, effectively putting an end to the anti-Chinese racism that lingered in the USA for decades.
@hehitmeinthekneegur1551
8 ай бұрын
This is entirely surface level.
@grapeshot
Жыл бұрын
I'm going to check the movie out for once it's not a franchise movie.
@TheKavernacle
Жыл бұрын
yeah it's a decent movie - I would tell people to see it just for the special effects and robot design. The actual plot is solid enough (didn't talk about it in the vid)
@Tacom4ster
Жыл бұрын
Big Hero 6 is a mid movie, but mixes East and West aesthethics pretty well
@TheTailow
Жыл бұрын
They were smart to only focus on Japan, instead of entire Asia.
@mmm-mb2fs
5 ай бұрын
the game subsurface circular is a really good piece of cyberpunk media which is a video game that takes place on a subway train it doesn't have any orientalism, but it is 100% something you should play if you're a fan of cyberpunk and politics.
@roccocardinale6112
Жыл бұрын
The original cut was 5 hours long. The film was 2 hours long. There was much more world-building to be done. You're the problem with sci-fi fans. Drop the soy.
@hiroforce
Жыл бұрын
You keep bringing up the vietnam war, as you should, but I think there's more in line with current "wars" where the West can extend military might around the world with umpunity without even a declaration of war. Mainly through the predator drone project which Nomad is a direct reference to. AND the complaint you have about the asians as victims, THAT'S HOW IT IS. Trump blew up a general in an airport in an allied country with impunity. THAT IS THE POINT. THAT IS THE MESSAGE. You got lost in YOUR knowledge of history not realizing this movie isn't about YOUR knowledge. If you have a film to make, make it.
@phangkuanhoong7967
11 ай бұрын
So, I'm Malaysian Chinese, and i have to disagree. for one, the Asians in The Creator do not, at any point, call themselves "New Asia". It's only the American characters. That signals to me that New Asia is more a propagandistic term, than it is an actual thing in the movie's world. So, harping on this point is, i don't know, kinda missing the larger point being made here? 2. the robots in this movie are coded as refugees to me, as in, i personally saw them as people rather than literal robots. 3. unlike other creators of the genre with this vein of story, Edwards did not do a "both sides" thing here. 4. while mysticism and specifically Buddhist aesthetics are present and prominent in the child's characterization, I'd say The Creator did not paint it's a thing with all the Asians in this world. 5. I really do not mind the non-cultural/language specific depiction of Asians here, 'cause well, it's kinda like that here in Malaysia. Many different people speaking in different languages, mixing and matching languages and still be able to communicate with each other. and our signboards aren't monolingual. 6. Um, did you forget that there are city scenes in this movie? it's not just mountains and helpless villages. So, no. There are worse offenders of Orientalism. The Creator to me, is not one of them.
@temporalinsanity
Жыл бұрын
love it. the irony is, your critique would probably be seen as more valid because you're white. as an east Asian person, i've said stuff like this to people and they go "what Orientalism?" then i have to point out things like that one body switching show on netflix, altered carbon. it's so orientalist it's gross. i've never read the book, but i've heard it's worse. lmao they couldn't even make the original character Asian. they made him a white man with an Asian first name (yes, i know technically he's hapa/half Asian, but imo that's really just a cop out to make him white, but give him a Japanese name like he's some 13yo white weeb). also let's get into the fact that "they" (western media) loves have an "Asian" story and but always center white people. even 47 Ronin they had to cast Keanu instead of just casting a Japanese or Japanese American person. I wish western media would leave us alone sometimes.
@jaspervanheycop9722
11 ай бұрын
If you want some Asian cyberpunk actually written by Asians, I recommend the Broken Stars and Invisible Planets Chinese Scifi anthologies edited by Ken Liu, there's some great Cyberpunk-esque stories in there, that we in the West barely have access to because of the language gap. Also more conventional Hard scifi than cyberpunk but Cixin Liu's Three Body Problem is a titan of the genre for a reason.
@minhducnguyen9276
10 ай бұрын
Three bodies problem is the shit. I have never seen anyone go that hard with the technological discrepancy between civilizations. The Aliens are like gods, not just some nations with a big gun.
@tigerlike7472
Жыл бұрын
Strange Days is an interesting piece of cyberpunk that rarely gets spoken about. Effectively people are creating and selling memories (similar to VDs in CP2077), which leads to some really graphic and, frankly speaking, fucked up subject matter. But the B plot with Angela Bassett is really cool to me! If you can stomach the gratuitous amounts of sexual violence (which I cannot stress enough, is graphic and excessive and the worst part of the entire movie), there's a good story about corruption, police brutality, and race relations. Also, Angela Bassett should have become an action star based solely on this role. She's the best!
@nerag7459
Жыл бұрын
That was a great movie. Set in the future of 1999 ;) I need to rewatch it to see if it is as good as I remember.
@sunyavadin
11 ай бұрын
She's incredible in that film. I keep sending gifs of scenes where her biceps are on full display to all my lesbian friends :D
@jeanyve_person
Жыл бұрын
See this is one of those complicated times when I truly believe this to be a 10/10 film for me personally, but with the asterisk of it having messy representation. I figured VERY early on in the film that the Asian rep was going to be a little YIKES, but then the characters, story and filmmaking kicked in and I just absorbed it like a sponge and totally stopped caring. I will not defend the problematic nature of the representation of this film. And I think that's the beauty of civil discussion of art. That I can love this film with all my heart and still say "it's got problems tho...". It's not a paradox. It's not "loving something and hating something". It's understanding the complex nature of how we each react to art, and it's something more "fans" of things need to acknowledge. Great video!
@TheKavernacle
Жыл бұрын
That's totally fair - what you see with some comments even in response to this video is people think I'm accusing them of being racist by liking something with issues. I love Blade Runner, I like Vietnam War movies, hell I even like Call of Duty - I still recognise the massive issues with racism/xenophobia present in all these works - which is totally fine it's not all or nothing
@yohannessulistyo4025
Жыл бұрын
When I watch futuristic dystopia, I never almost associate it with East Asia, until I visited Japan back in 2019. It is basically grey, gritty, and neon-light aesthetics, which is just Osaka. Walk around Nanba and then spend a night in Dottonbori - you'll get that Cyberpunk Blade Runner vibe. And when I found this subject about the aesthetics, it reminded me of that Bangkok vibe that I don't like. "Asian countries that has advanced economically back in 1980s, but turned decrepit concrete jungle in 2010s" People love Osaka - for its vibrancy, friendly people, and general fun attitude. So I guess, my impression is just purely mine. Being western-influenced "banana Asian" - I kind of hated its cold grey concrete aesthetics. Communist brutalism architecture also love the practicality like Osaka. Efficient, public-oriented, and mass enfranchisement. So it is kinda werid to see you criticising it. Discussing about this subject is very difficult for people who never been to "old Asia" - Bangkok, Osaka, Ho Chi Minh, Hong Kong, Taipei - these grey Blade Runner, Fifth Element, Cyberpunk, all those dystopic future aesthetics that these supposed "racism-laced fantasy" are based upon. I never paid attention until I realised that Bruce Willis (Korben Dallas) ate Chinese take outs from floating food truck vendor, and Blade Runner is full of Asian corporation advertisements and video game products. There is indeed that association with East Asia. In contrast, Western dystopia is always "Sanctuary surrounded by slums" like Maze Runner, Hunger Games, In Time, and Divergent.
@ahmadhadi177
Жыл бұрын
The Communist brutalist architecture being those constructed and used during the time of the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc,right?
@adelahogarth2761
Жыл бұрын
Tokyo is glorious is the sunshine, depressing in the rain. I don't really associate Tokyo itself with the idea of a cyberpunk dystopia, as say what you like--The city was affordable rent-wise and all the public utilities work. And I spent a year there, primarily living in Asakusa and working everyday in Shibuya. When it comes to cyberpunk dystopias, I think Manila, London and Chicago. I mean... Manila has come a long way, but frankly I remember it only took on average two hours from a black market gun sale to it/them (as in multiples) being used in a homicide or homicide attempt. Pinoy cartels and gunrunners had better logistics than the armed forces of any OECD nation. Why roleplay Cyberpunk 2020 or Shadowrun, when you can just be a cartel enforcer moving shabu in the 'Pines? Though, once again, the Philippines has come a long way.
@ahmadhadi177
Жыл бұрын
@@adelahogarth2761 I don't know,really.I mean there's gotta be toxic work culture there that Japan's known for.I'm sorry If I was being rude and ignorant.I guess there are good things in Tokyo and other parts of Japan that you mentioned.
@adelahogarth2761
Жыл бұрын
@@ahmadhadi177 I mean ... I liked it. Tokyo is one of the places I point at for examples as to things like well planned above-ground rail services can do, and why with good civil planning above-ground rail is better than underground metros that you should only build if you literally cannot find the space and/or your city is so ancient and crowded it would be recklessly public endangering to build above-ground rail. Like the Yamanote JR line is literally the most efficient people mover on Earth. Above-ground rail... best thing in the world, and the most efficient mover of people, and moving of people from station to street and street to train cars. Tokyo is also an example I point to when you need a city public transit model to show how rail can supplant buses and cars, and cut roughly 50% of my native Sydney's footprint given over to road and sidewalks. I mean, it's not 'offensive' to me... it's a city. So no harm no foul. Just saying I find it really difficult to think of Tokyo as a cyberpunk dystopia when, on the whole, we should be using it as a 'big city' model of how you can have a global city with cheap rents, cheap leases, and thriving foot and rail transit. The biggest thing that pissed me off about Japan is I needed to wear sunglasses in the rain as a 5'10'' tall person--That was a painful eye injury. Oh... and Narita International airport sucks--But that's not the Japanese government's fault...That's the fault of the U.S. bases chewing up the airspace and pretending like they should get to dictate air traffic flow around it. I mean, I get it ... Japan lost, got occupied... but that was eighty years ago.
@jukio02
10 ай бұрын
Hong Kong has a cyberpunk vibe going on.
@muthannauchicago
Жыл бұрын
Yes many of the critiques are valid but actually whether they won or not vast numbers of Vietnamese or Iraqis slaughtered is actually quite accurate. Because of Americans superior firepower most Vietnamese did die without being able to resist. Three million Vietnamese died, I think leftist tend to glamorize anti American insurgencies without taking into account the cost. The S. Vietnamese lost every single battle they fought against the US army including during the Tet Offensive. But that’s not how insurgencies work they just needed to outlast the US and that’s how they won.
@TheKavernacle
Жыл бұрын
the North invaded the South and together with the NLF overthrew the Southern Regime in 1975, despite them being armed to the teeth and trained by the US military for over a decade - Tet offensive was a Vietnamese attack as well, a Pyrrhic Victory, but one which saw them mount an offensive in a more conventional way and not them fleeing for their lives as defenceless victims
@merrydaye4763
11 ай бұрын
Colonial white guy running around Asia cosplaying communism. Too cute❣️
@GregPrice-ep2dk
11 ай бұрын
The dystopia in cyberpunk doesn't come from a clash of cultures, or the traditional nation-state model of imperialism, it comes from the tyranny of commercialism and lassaiez fare capitalism over the body politic. Cultural homoginization across regions is an inevitable debelopment of an interconnected world. Look at the US, for example. Despite what the MAGAs would have you think, you can find a wide variety of cultural traditions living in general harmony at the basic level. A growing number of Americans are bi or multi-lingual. We freely eat each others' cuisine, appreciate each others' arts. etc.
@austinluther5825
Жыл бұрын
The dehumanization and blending of Asian people confused me a lot as a kid and teenager. I grew up in Hawaii, which has a lot of people from different Asian cultures living there alongside people of different Polynesian cultures. Recognizing the different languages, religions, traditions, stories, etc was just how I grew up. And they're not aliens from another planet; they're people from another human culture. I moved to the East Coast of the US when I was 13. Serious culture shock. Most kids knew almost nothing about any culture other than American and whatever culture their family came from. I remember a teacher doing roll call on the first day of school, stumbling over a student's name, and laughing and saying, "Sorry, I don't speak Chinese." The kid just raised his hand and said "present." I couldn't helps myself: I said, "That's not a Chinese name. You don't need to speak the language to notice the name has more than one syllable." I got detention and a new friend. He was Cambodian.
@c4ghts1
Жыл бұрын
White saviour over here lol
@elliotyourarobot
11 ай бұрын
South east asia? You went too fare far north for that.
@richarddeckard3971
Жыл бұрын
The film is harmless. I think you should stop being so anti-fun by trying to make people feel bad when they're just trying to watch their movie. As for your question; The best Cyberpunk novel is Snow Crash.
@veritasetcaritas
Жыл бұрын
Since you asked for feedback, here's some information from someone who lived through the last two decades of the Cold War, saw the emergence and development of cyberpunk first hand, teaches media communication at a local university and literary analysis at an English school, and has lived in Taiwan for 19 years, having traveled in that time to Japan, China, Hong Kong, Korea, and Cambodia. I could write a lot more on each of these points, but I'm saving that for a video I'm making on the topic. 1. Your reading of Said is not only inaccurate but anachronistic and outdated. Your definition of the Orient is different to Said's, and you don't recognize the serious ways in which Said was wrong, which were due to the fact that he was a literary critic not a historian. Leaving aside your conflation of "the Orient" with "the Far East" (which Said did not do), Said had no understanding of how a false image of "the Far East" by elites in China, India, and Japan was deliberately created, marketed, and sold to the West for a couple of centuries for economic and political gain. This is where the West's vision of the Far East mainly came from; it was a deliberately concocted mirage they were intended to believe. I would also recommend reading modern critiques of Said; he had a very narrow and ethnocentric lens, and he should be regarded as a very basic and flawed starting point for discussions of Orientalism, not an authority. The academy has moved on very far from Said. 2. Cyberpunk does not have an Orientalist origin. It emerged from a combination of 1960s New Wave scifi, film noir, and Anglosphere anti-capitalist political movements. Its aesthetic visual elements (falsely attributed to Orientalism), were founded on New Wave scifi imagery found in 1970s comics such as the British 2000AD, French Métal Hurlant, and American Heavy Metal, which were critiquing Western culture and which were among the first to blend New Wave scifi, film noir, and anti-capitalism into proto-cyberpunk, which became the template for the 1980s. Seminal cyberpunk writers such as Philip K Dick and William Gibson drew their inspiration directly from these sources, as they explained explicitly. 3. Most of Bladerunner 1984's heavy presence of Japanese/Oriental imagery already existed in cyberpunk, having been established by Japanese cyberpunk conventions, not xenophobic Westerners. Japan adopted cyberpunk in the early 1980s, adapted it, modified it, and returned it to the West with new conventions. This was part of the cultural transfer from Japan to the West, which took place in the 1970s and 80s when Japanese soft power was highly influential. This is the opposite of Orientalism, it's Japanese soft power transmitting its culture around the world. For example, the now famous cyberpunk concept and term "neo-Tokyo" (never used in Bladerunner), describing a futuristic and technologically developed mega-city, is first found in the Japanese manga Mirai Keisatsu Urashiman (1982), and was also used in the the Japanese cyberpunk manga Akira (1982). Yet people falsely attribute both the term and the concept to Western "Orientalizing" of Tokyo. 4. Bladerunner 1984's cityscapes were not based on anywhere in Asia at all. They were based on locations in the UK and US. Designer Sid Mead visited Japan in 1961, during a time when Japanese skylines looked nothing like anything in Bladerunner, and when the the tallest building in Japan was only slightly higher than the nineteenth century Eiffel Tower. He explicitly did not take any inspiration from Japan when designing for Bladerunner 20 years later. In fact deliberate steps were made to distance Bladerunner from Japan. The original 1980 Bladerunner script cited "Nekko Corporation", but this was changed to "Tyrell Corporation" to make the villain company American, not Japanese. If you knew the history you would know why. 5. The original Bladerunner script was written well before the Japanese economic scare, and based on a book published in 1968 as part of the proto-cyberpunk genre. The trade war with Japan didn't start until the mid-1980s. The Bladerunner script was written during a high point in US-Japan relations, when the US government was enthusiastically welcoming Japanese companies into the US. Reagan's infamous election speech of 1980 about Japanese cars was confined exclusively to blaming US car industry troubles on the previous administration, not a part of a xenophobic trade war with Japan (which did not exist), or part of a larger anti-Japanese political strategy. While his speech went over well with voters, it split his own Cabinet, with many of his own staff disagreeing with him, insisting that the free market required US car manufacturers to sink or swim, and arguing that Japanese car imports would benefit the economy. Meanwhile, the Japanese government was equally divided on the issue, and urged Japanese car manufacturers to slow down their exports.
@Jeda_Tragumee
Жыл бұрын
I found your comment, @veritasetcaritas!
@andyboom2004
Жыл бұрын
Not a good movie, but "Ultraviolet" has a gang called the Blood Chinois. And if you notice chinois is French for "Chinese". However, all the gang members speak Vietnamese. It is layers of weird, bad creativity.
@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342
Жыл бұрын
Lol such a crapp movie. I dug the villain though he made me laugh with how cartoony he was. And he was split down the middle with a fire sword! Soo kool.
@sunyavadin
11 ай бұрын
See, the only Ultraviolet I bother with is the Channel 4 show where Idris Elba and Jack Davenport play vampire hunters using guns with cameras on them so they can see if their targets show up on the screens and if they don't, take them out with carbon tipped bullets to the heart.
@Bgh583
Ай бұрын
L take
@wolfgangdarkly
Жыл бұрын
Spoiler alert
@wolfywolfson
Жыл бұрын
Bubblegum crisis, patlabor and ghost in the shell
@phaikia13
Жыл бұрын
The cyberpunk universe is a messed up world... Its anti human life. Hahaha...
@ExtremeMadnessX
Жыл бұрын
Aren't Americans obviously a bad guys in the movie? The New Asia i see as something like EU and the way to avoid to mentioned specific countries to probably avoid possible controversies.
@UNSTABLE111
Жыл бұрын
Still love this movie though..it provides a counterpoint to james camerons take on AI..and as far as blending cultures...Fucking Philippines man, i hate to say it but we truly have blended ass cultures sometimes the only way to tell a person is filipino is when they speak..I get it though, but Ill be honest, New Asia feels like the Philippines lol
@thrillhouse4151
Жыл бұрын
The obscure cyberpunk thing I liked a lot was this MMORPG called Anarchy Online. It’s golden age was in the early aughts before World of Warcraft came out and homogenized (and ultimately ruined) the genre. Oh man, let’s see one of the restaurant chains was called “Mongol Meat” whose mascot was just a smiling head with a conical rice farmers hat…. It still runs but the game was practically abandoned when the company started focusing on games set in the Conan universe, which is arguably WAY more orientalist.
@GeorgeDeftereos
Жыл бұрын
I lived in South Korea for 15 years. My first night there i saw all the neon crucifixes filling the night sky. Was surreal.
@kpy2003
24 күн бұрын
Natural City a Korean Cyberpunk movie from mid 2010s. Check it out if you haven't already.
@SAVarXX
Жыл бұрын
Game and Anime does a poor job of showing it but Arasaka are supposed to be an analogue of the Yakuza mixed with Lockheed Martin moreso than Japan itself. They are indeed one of the largest corporations and military super powers but they also operate independent of Japan. In Lore theyre kind of like a militarized Amazon. Everyone uses them, but also everyone hates them and they're evil. Militech is the US/EU version of that. NUSA and most of Asia are all allies in Pondsmith's cyberpunk as he atleast tried to make the whole universe a "Capitalism and Corporations are the problem" thing.
@bobolishis7
Жыл бұрын
Played the game and thought nothing of it. Damn I am normal as f%$#
@FallenGemini
Жыл бұрын
Being American of Asian descent, I am glad you covered this despite me not knowing Cyberpunk 2077 being based in Vietnam. What is funny about the game being in a unified Southeast Asia is how unrealistic thst is. Because of past history, there is racism among Southeast Asians living in Asia. As such, there is no way South Korea would unify with Japan and China in 50 years or so. It goes to show that the creator knows nothing about Asia. Anyway, being Asian, one of my gripes is how people in general are ignorant of Southeast Asians. Being of Vietnamese descent being born in America in the early 80s whose parents moved to the U.S. immediately after the Vietnam War, I would be asked from others to translate Chinese characters. Yeah, I can't read Chinese characters because I am not Chinese. Even though it was brief, I am also glad you covered Yellow Fever. I feel that the fetish, which had a comeback in the 90s and early 2000s, is more obscure in American media. When growing up, I didn't think I was attractive since Asian American men were rarely seen on TV and movies with love interest - it was usually the Asian American woman that are seen on TV and movies during the 90s and 2000s. By not being represented in media, I felt as I wasn't asexual nor 1st generation Asian immigrant - Asian male stereotypes prevalent in TV at the time. On the flipside, I feel that it encouraged Asian American women not dating Asian men because most AA women on American TV and movies were seen with white men. I remember in a psychology class, a Vietnamese lady introduced herself as someone who self-proclaim herself as Chinese because that race was more popular in the U.S. despite that the lady said that she had both Vietnamese parents. In addition, she said that she date only white men because she's Americanized. Anyway, I am happy that Asian American male characters are not only getting more screentime on TV, they also have love interests. Those who don't experience it, would easily dismiss representation in TV and movies. However, it is very important to see as it not only educate those who aren't the representative minorities, it also gives confident and the notion of being human to those such minorities.
@Chill-mm4pn
Жыл бұрын
Cyberpunk the roleplay and game (77) is a critique on how 1980s America viewed Japan, also critiquing consumerism, capitalism and corporatism, it isn't really racist in itself. It is hinting at the nationalism and xenophobia of America of the 80s.
@BeautifulEarthJa
Жыл бұрын
I recently read Neuromancer. Stoked to hear your discussion of baked in Orientalism....
@marcos-ll2yr
Жыл бұрын
Only south Korea release a cyberpunk recently Jung E. China i noticed that they don't explore much cyberpunk in movies but steampunk. Cyberpunk they put more in games
@YoungMatt81
Жыл бұрын
Would Serenity/Firefly be guilty of this? I think cyberpunk included heavy asian elements in earnest for world building purposes, whereas Serenity/Firefly sprinkles in random Asian words and aesthetics seemingly as a garnish, because there doesnt appear to be any real attempt at incorporating asian culture into the show or movie.
@micuu1
Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't say it necessarily handled it well, but I don't think it's really Orientalism. To get past the censors swearing in mandarin was a convenient shortcut. The main villains aren't "Oriental": it's the Sino-American alliance. It's not West versus East but more a legitimate fusion of them.
@elonmusksellssnakeoil1744
Жыл бұрын
Annular Eclipse from 2021 is a Chinese cyberpunk film.
@hiroforce
Жыл бұрын
Ok you said that you watched the movie, but... well ok I'll start by saying I usually like your take on things. But this is a sci fi movie that as you pointed out , has a discussion of how the west uses it's military might irresponsibly. To tell a tight story, you widdle down the details to focus on the story. So in THIS future in THIS film, the regions of earth consolidate. That's it. That's all that needs to be said. This isn't a movie about a photobook of the richness of culture around the world. To add that in would distract from THE STORY. You didn't go on about how the westerners in the film didn't depict regional differences like Texas VS NY or some nonsense like that. That's not the story. You went on for 34 minutes because you didn't know where you are in the world. The movie isn't about YOU recognizing where things are filmed. The title of the movie isn't KAVERNACLE'S NOSTALGIA TRIP THROUGH SOUTHEAST ASIA, right? RIGHT?
@TheKavernacle
Жыл бұрын
didn't understand my criticisms 🥱 why could the film just be set in Vietnam or Thailand? or China? why does it have to be the US vs The Orient?
@hiroforce
Жыл бұрын
I understood just fine. Let's assume the movie is made for a Western audience. A Western audience who statistically do not visit Asia. What we see is an exotic area with a culture we are not used to being terrorized by Western military power. As you rightly pointed out the Vietnam war is an example of this, but an even better example is the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Because of the predator drone program. But most westerners began to learn of middle eastern culture because of that war. And yes, to them it was like going to another planet. So in the creator, the endeavor would be to get that feeling in this conflict, but if the middle east were chosen as the region to stage this, because the Iraq conflict is so recent, the story would get bogged down in those associations. If another area were chosen, like Scandinavia, the familiarity with the culture would remove the sense of exotic. So yes I understand fine your criticism from your perspective. But your having traveled and lived in Asia makes you not the typical Westerner. Not the typical viewer.
@sunyavadin
11 ай бұрын
@@hiroforce "we are not used to being terrorized by Western military power" Oh, tell that to anyone here in Britain born between 1940 and 1960. They'll all act like they personally fought against the nazis... Terminal Blitz brain.
@AnarkiarenErregina
7 ай бұрын
I don't know if you will see this. I'm half Basque half Cebuano from the Philippines with Balinese ancestry and i love cyberpunk (particularly Shadowrun) but i hate that they usually lump us in all as one take the Philippines and Indonesia Philippines alone has 186 languages Indonesia has 700. I think that more cyberpunk should show more or less how diverse we are. This was a really amazing video. If your interested about a cyberpunk game from a south east Asian perspective may i suggest Rendezvous: Shadows of the Past its written by Indonesians and set in Surabaya or Shadowrun Hong Kong Its not set in south east Asia but for me personally I think it does a pretty good job of representing the diversity of Asia also i just really love Shadowrun. love your videos sorry English isn't my first language.
@Oh_DeER_1_1o1_1
11 ай бұрын
Well, after watching this video I do believe representation is a matter of sensibilities . In contrast, the Latino representation in Cyberpunk is well received in LatinAmerica (I don’t know if this is the same for the Latinx community in the US): it’s so, that the post-regueton of Cyberpunk is influential to the 2020’s pop-urban artists (such as Karol G. and Rosalia) the character of Jackie is well accepted as good Latino representation (and also the Street Kids culture, because it’s seem as a satire and criticism to street violence; but at the same time, as the values even these people share) Also, I’m saying this coming from a country whose D C4rtels, in the Cyperpunk Universe, destroyed the NY City 😳
@ZiggyMeister
Жыл бұрын
I enjoyed the movie, although I think it could have been way better compared to what some people that are praising it so much are saying. But I honestly didn’t think of it in the way you’re describing it here, but I guess I am probably too clueless and far removed from what you’re criticizing to be aware of it! So, what I am saying is that I am glad I watched your video, but also that I watched the movie before I watched your video 😅
@saisamsuri
10 ай бұрын
New Asia is actually A LOT like Southeast Asia (specifically Singapore, Malaysia and to a certain extend, Thailand). There are signboards in different languages and people from all parts of Asia. It's not really one country, one culture out here. You missed out the part where Black and White people in New Asia are treated just like any other citizen. I think that's the point they were trying to make. That New Asia didn't care what language you spoke or what race you were (or if you were even human). The whole xenophobia thing only exists in the West. (Of course in reality, Asian people are racist asf.)
@ericktellez7632
Жыл бұрын
People still associate LA with “Asia” despite the large population is only about 12% of the population meanwhile almost 50% of the population in LA is currently Hispanics.
@godabandonedmesoibecameaba8984
11 ай бұрын
I read Neuromancer this week and i can't explain how disappointed i was ... it's supposed to be first cyberpunk book but all it had was ; racism against japanese and turks even though story takes place in Japan and Turkey (mc gets every asian women because he's American and he thinks everyone cares about him) then he goes to turkey for a mission and the first thing it does is to make fun of turks living in Turkey for not speaking perfect English and treats them like they are lowlifes (yet he only knows English even after living in Japan) gets angry at turks for "not protecting Christian things and churches" while he knows that in this scenario he has written turks are living in a nearly post apocalyptic world and they don't even have a safe home to stay how can you expect them to repair churches... he is not even doing his job properly but a WHITE AND BLONDE robot appears to help him get rid of his drug addiction.
@jesseb4503
Жыл бұрын
Fav CyberPunk Media: IDORU by W. Gibson
@Gangster_Hampster
Жыл бұрын
That's true. I'm sick of orientalism towards Asians.
@SeasideDetective2
Жыл бұрын
I remember growing up in the 1980s in California, and while I can't speak for most other Californians, I did feel prejudice toward Japanese people. I did not know anyone who was ethnically Japanese, even though there were Japanese-Americans living very close by. And I was afraid of the Japanese. I "knew" from the action movies of the era that they were rude and bullying, angrily screamed gibberish, and frightened people with samurai swords. I was aware, it's true, that they had been victimized by the atomic bomb droppings at the end of World War II, but I also took for granted that "they deserved it." I gladly rode in Toyotas and watch Sony television sets, but I didn't think about where those things came from. My attitudes toward other East Asians were mostly positive. I liked Chinese people because one of my kindergarten teachers was a Chinese woman, and I was fascinated by their food and by their parades. (It helped that China itself was becoming much less communist during these years.) I knew hardly anything about Southeast Asians until I saw the musical THE KING AND I performed on stage, and that was my introduction to Siamese/Thai culture. Nowadays, many years later, I find Southeast Asia fascinating. I love Thai food, and I'm intrigued by the Angkor Wat urban complex that still stands in ruins in the jungles of Cambodia. I would love to see a historical epic film about the Khmer Empire. APOCALYPSE NOW is also one of my favorite movies, in part because the climax takes place at an ancient Cambodian temple.
@eddierascalhaskell4954
Жыл бұрын
Thats kinda weird considering Asians make most of these games...Self-hate maybe?
@joaquin5028
Жыл бұрын
I think tropic thunder really played into how dehumanized violence is in Vietnam. Great video aa always!
@sto1238
Жыл бұрын
It’s kinda telling that it’s damn near impossible to make a decent looking Asian male character in game lol
@user-rs1wc9qs3n
Жыл бұрын
Cloud atlas movie probably falls under this weird whitewashed of Asia/ racist towards Asians category
@Mercy.Beloved
7 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for pointing this out because I was feeding into it but it's also soooo obvious and problematic. Demonizing Arasaka is wild.
@andiralosh2173
11 ай бұрын
Ah yes, the countries. Africa, Asia, South America. Big countries
@yuzef_jayden
2 ай бұрын
What a non-issue. It's just bad worldbuilding, no need to shit your pants over it.
@panqueque445
Жыл бұрын
27:07 Is that a future cyberpunk techno bullshit AK47? Really?
@Vynzent
Жыл бұрын
The only thing its missing is RGB lighting 😂
@rohanxdavis
Жыл бұрын
This is one of my favourite videos of yours. Interesting take! Although I did really enjoy the movie, I do see what you're saying about the obvious Orientalism, and I couldn't help but get annoyed while reading books like Neuromancer. However, I must say that India, China, Myanmar, Nepal, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, Cambodia do have lots of shared history. This is not a knock on your take, because people outside Asia are not as interested in Asian history and that's understandable. We are different but do share many common threads, overlapping gods and mythologies. In my town of Fort Kochi, in Kerala, India for instance, we still have Chinese fishing nets in use even today that are collectively owned by groups of our fishermen. Those nets are a symbol of our peaceful trade relations with China thousands of years before colonial ships reached our shores. We also had a thriving community of Buddhists, Muslims, Jewish people, Syriac Christians and Hindus. Dynasties like the Cholas from current day Tamil Nadu also invaded Cambodia, Thailand and more and that's a long, interesting history that spans 800 years (about 600 years longer than the British Raj's rule over India). Japan as well shares similar deities to Indian and Chinese ones, to be specific, Saraswati in Indian religions, is known as Benzaiten in Japanese Buddhism. The Goddess Danu from Bali Indonesia, and even Bali himself is also worshiped in India by various tribes. Kung Fu in China was also developed with the help of a South Indian monk from my state called Bodhidharma. You'll easily find dark-skinned Chinese statues and idols of him in China, but almost no one outside Asia knows this thanks to Hollywood. The troubles between India and China are a relatively recent one which stems from border disputes and the invasion of Aksai Chin and Tibet not long ago. Which is why it would've been interesting to see a united Asia in the movie that retains it's diversity, with free travel between borders (or even no borders). I loved how so many of the robots spoke different languages including Indians ones though. The fantasy of a united Asia sounded good for once, and it was good to see American imperialism portrayed as clearly bad.
@bullis1858
Жыл бұрын
I don’t think the monks being killed was played to be funny, more to highlight how terrible the US are.
@mahogara
Жыл бұрын
I guess as a dystopian future setting, every Asian countries being united into one could make sense. I mean the only way that could happen is that the conflicts about territories go out of hands, huge wars break out with devastating loss of lives, homes, destroyed economy and so on untill every distinct characters, cultures and languages of every different Asian countries have been wiped out and replaced with one singularity race : the asian. So as a dystopian future, that could be a possibility.
@wmd40
Жыл бұрын
Best Cyberpunk movie is Johnny Mnemonic 😎 lol
@JamitMan
7 ай бұрын
You didnt went to Singapore and Taiwan. Taiwan and Singapore are similar to Japan but its underrated.
@VectorIV
Жыл бұрын
Ah yes, my favourite SEA country, you know: Japan
@angelr5694
Жыл бұрын
Jung E on Netflix I personally liked. - More futuristic than cyber-punk. If Asia did a Cyberpunk anything I am willing to bet it would blow Hollywood's versions out of the water. Edit Gantz: O is always good imo
@TheKeyser94
Жыл бұрын
They technically did with Ghost in the Shell and the many spin-off, my favourites being Stand Alone Complex and Arise.
@angelr5694
Жыл бұрын
@@TheKeyser94 I'll check the last two out. Thank you
@andrerobinson5831
Жыл бұрын
The Creator does not count as a cyberpunk film.
@user-gf6hf5uz2r
Жыл бұрын
Some good cyberpunk games without anti-asian sentiment: Observer, Cloudpunk, Umurangi Generation and Ghostrunner
@Ghastlyteaparty
Жыл бұрын
It's so interesting how "techno orientalism" has prejudice baked on and is based on old stereotypes, while "afro futurism" is seen as like empowering and breaking stereotypes. I'd also say, as a non-white, non-American or British person from a mixed family, I don't think I viewed the world as homogenous, I'm not sure others would either, because you see French, British, American, German media all the time or at least portrayals of them are more common, so you learn they are distinct places as a child. Meanwhile you don't get that level of nuance on media for other countries. I'd also say having lived in Canada, Jamaica and Germany and visited the US and the Netherlands, I found all major cities to be pretty much exactly the the same, with similar enough experiences. The differences seem to be outside that city centre where it's less homogenized. Another note Octavia Butler books aren't strictly Cyberpunk, but she has some future dystopia novels that are a really good and different perspective. Maybe Solarpunk is a better word for some of her work, but for anyone who hasn't read it, a Black woman sci-fi author from the 80s and 90s is a breath of fresh air.
@sunyavadin
11 ай бұрын
Probably in how the conventional racist themes around techno-orientalism were based in fear of a threat posed by Asian nations, whereas afrofuturism is a *counternarrative* to the racist themes in portraying African nations as backwards and undeveloped.
@skettitangles
Жыл бұрын
I really love this film but have to admit this is a totally valid critique and I hope it gets back to the director and producers. We need more original sci fi films in cinema. I’m a bit old now so growing up through the 80s and 90s I internalised so much of the negative Asian film tropes that I didn’t even notice them re-expressed in The Creator. I still highly rate the film as it ticks so many boxes for me but I’m glad I’m now aware of the big flaw in its representation of Asia
@realshehrkhan
Жыл бұрын
Maybe calling it The Asian Union instead of one country New Asia would have been a better idea.
@AxeMan808
11 ай бұрын
The George Alec Effinger "Budayeen" series is sort of unique because it's in an Arabic setting. One of the core techs was brain-mod-chips for skills and/or personalities - some deep installs, some quickly replaceable cartridges.
@mandalorehamster
11 ай бұрын
My favorite are either the expanse books or the altered carbon books
@mista414
Жыл бұрын
I liked it, I had no expectations going in. I see your point though for sure.
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