I find myself wondering if a great deal of this doesn't come down to developmental psychology. It is pretty well established that adolescents seek identity first by differentiating themselves from their parents. They can do this either by seeking to go further where they perceive their parents as not having gone far enough (perfectionism?) or by radically breaking with their parents' values (paradigm shifting). Every generation tries to get right what their parents got wrong (at least as the younger generation perceives things). Just a thought.
@sengroagers1111
Жыл бұрын
Another big contributor is the over-emphasis on efficiency in musicians’ technique. With jazz education, you can iron out all the idiosyncrasies in a student’s sound, and make sure they’re playing in the most healthy clean energy-efficient way possible. So now you have a lot of musicians (I notice especially with saxophone) where they all have the same bland clean efficient sound, with very little variation. Because if they wanted to develop their own sound, they’d have to learn how to play the instrument in their own weird way, and formal education just isn’t built for that
@benmartin5417
3 ай бұрын
Nail head
@haysfordays
Жыл бұрын
This video is one of the most important things I've seen/heard. Your ability to hit so many deep points and stay on point with such a huge subject is mesmerizing.
@syater
6 ай бұрын
Great subject(s) ! To focus on film for a moment. There was a golden era of films being made during late 60s through the 70s, let's say ('Bonny & Clyde' through 'Apocalypse Now'). In late 1976 I remember an ad on the radio, ridiculous voices engaged in ridiculous dialogue accompanied by zaps, zings and whistles announcing an upcoming movie. It sounded like a sci-fi comic strip. My friend and I both rolled our eyes. "Let's not rush to see that one" we snickered . Little did we know we had just heard the turning wheels of the Trojan horse that would bring down a golden era of film. Star War would usher in the "formulaic" era.
@kzustang
Жыл бұрын
I feel like I was waiting forever for you to make this video! Thank you! You have to understand the evolution of Jazz, country, rock'n roll, rock, funk, disco and the interaction between the genres which is each in its own evolving stages. This is the way to understand psychedelia, experimentalism, prog, punk, dub, trip-hop, drum'n bass. It's all fusion. It's the visceral/hedonistic vs. grid-perfect cycle. Every genre went through this cycle and sometimes the genre dies after one cycle, sometimes it transforms, sometimes it has to fuse to evolve. Me, I'm trying to find the next visceral form to fuse to get rock back on its feet. Somehow. I hope. I have to break the mold....I have to... The pendulum must swing back. Not sure when or how, but it will. I believe in humanity and the arts. You've definitely pushed the right button.
@jdt1581
Жыл бұрын
Thanks Andy for a great followup on this topic - which triggered another thought for me … “to BE or not to BE” … that really is the question isn’t it? These days it takes an abundance of awareness and courage to let yourself BE the musician you truly are or potentially can be. You really nailed it! One more thing-your transparency about why you’ll probably do another followup on this topic was wonderful! 😂
@song4night
Жыл бұрын
man! this is pure brilliance! I never saw the world in this form of cycles you describe. Just blew me away. Yes I'm subscribing!
@pablohrrg8677
Жыл бұрын
We all stand on the shoulders of the greats of the previous generation. Every generation get hooked on something they like and first they imitate their heroes and their teachers, but once you perfected the thing you've grown admiring and respecting, you start to need to express your own voice and use the preious generation as a starting point. We all did with our parents. First we imitate them, then we diverge. Is the cycle of life. And that goes on generation after generation.
@tim-owegeorgi9593
Жыл бұрын
Nothing more to say. Yes, we should definitely swing back. Start all over, raw, pure, simple and without rules. This will be really difficult especially with all the YT tutorials telling us the 3, 5, 7, 10 rules of what to do and how to do it avoiding the 3, 5, 7, 10 mistakes one should avoid. Free your mind and your soul will guide you.
@TheArtofBlues
Жыл бұрын
Hendrix doing the star spangled banner with never before used effects and amps like that! I think it goes over peoples head how revolutionary that was. I mean theres been nobody since just a bunch of grid hugging KZitemrs. :)
@guidominadisospiro3553
Жыл бұрын
0ne minor problem: there is no artistic scene to speak of in the contemporary world. There are periods, and this is a no-art period. Western governments are keen on decreasing the IQ of the general population, and are succeeding. This is Kali Yuga, my friend.
@gatergates8813
Жыл бұрын
So true. Catering to the lowest common denominator has robbed so many people of their opportunity to be exposed to art that challenges them
@guidominadisospiro3553
Жыл бұрын
@@gatergates8813 In the US, admission tests to the university or to post-graduate studies have been made redundant. A large swath of the student population could not cope withe them, let alone master them, so, Never mind, the government has decided, Forget about knowledge. The dumber the people the easier it is to shepherd them. Not only does art not thrive in the absence of intelligence--it cannot exist.
@ltfringr
Жыл бұрын
My Jazz Professor describes it as a push and pull between commercial jazz and uncommercial jazz through the decades which I think ties into your thoughts in an interesting way
@briteness
Жыл бұрын
Excellent historical overview. It's important to remember how we got into our present situation if we are ever going to find our way out.
@combatINFOcenter
Жыл бұрын
Visual artist here, painter. My definitions : to be modern is to reconcile the things you are making with the life you are living. Both Modernism & Postmodernism we’re born at once, the former consolidating first, the latter second (Alfred Jarry > Marcel Duchamp >.Andy Warhol). Modernity is contending with the destabilization of the old (Classical) order, with Modernism trying to form new canon & Postmodernists denying that possibility. The Modernists tried to touch G-d via material means, the Postmodernists inverted this project, pointing to everyday life via conceptual means. Modernism is so future anticipating as to hazard the eschatological, therefore it is susceptible to a death wish. The conceptuality of Postmodernists turn the dial down towards zero via Minimalism to Conceptualism by defining art as a set of instructions, anticipating the Information Age but also dematerializing art into nonexistence... which s the alternate form of suicide. This is the story arc of the 20th Century, which is cock blocking the 21st because the ultimate riddle is : how can we transgress transgression without becoming reactionary? Can our maps of art history, visual & music, be overlaid coherently? For example, the sonata form (Classicism) is disrupted by Beethoven, anticipating Impressionism & PostImpressionism, WWI births DADA, Jazz corresponds to Abstractionism, Rap to early computer age, etc.
@JHCdrums
Жыл бұрын
I saw the Glen Miller Big Band (Tribute, U.S.A) around 2016. The one word that best described the music and the presentation for me was, modern. I found this very interesting. It's like an old car that still some how looks and feels futuristic. I guess we call this "timeless."
@IanBoccio
Жыл бұрын
Interestingly within this context of order vs. chaos, I have found that in the dichotomy between Prog and Punk, things are not as obvious as they seem. One might think it obvious that Prog represents order while Punk represents chaos, but one can really only say that based on the artists' personas and attitudes, where the stereotype might be Prog rockers are elitist, educated, highly technical musicians, while Punk rockers are working-class and have a disdain for both education and technique. However, at least in the early phases of the 1970s, Prog was actually very chaotic - artists were constantly exploring new sounds, new ways of arranging music, and each Prog band sounded really different from all the others - while Punk, as a reaction, actually shifted back to the side of order - returning to traditional rock instrumentation of guitars, bass and drums, very simple, roots rock chord progressions, and a homogenously aggressive sound. I used to tour as the bassist for a punk band back in the 90s, and one of the things that struck me at that time was how Punk was really more of a culture and a community, rather than a style of music. Punk rock itself had a very narrowly defined set of parameters that you had to follow, otherwise you would be rejected by the community. It's certainly to be said that Prog has, over the past 2 decades or so, crystallized into a more orderly set of guidelines, as is often discussed on this channel, but Punk has always been like that, and I would argue that Punk's rebellion against Prog in the 1970s was a push away from chaos and back to order, even though the surface qualities of the two genres would suggest the opposite.
@AndyEdwardsDrummer
Жыл бұрын
I think you are describing what I explained in the video. Prog moving from hedonism to perfectionism, and then punk doing the same
@vinylarchaeologist
Жыл бұрын
Very thought-provoking argument about Prog vs Punk.
@IanBoccio
Жыл бұрын
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Yes that's right. I guess by the 90s punk had already been well-codified by the subculture. Being a non-punk guy suddenly touring around with a punk band, I was impressed at that time by the close-knit nature of that community. One of the main things was that there were punk clubs, which featured punk music, and the people would come out on any given night just to be part of the punk scene, and it didn't matter if they didn't know the bands - as long as they were sufficiently punk the people would be into it. That's why we were able to tour as an unsigned band back before the internet was really a thing. It was very, very low budget touring...
@colinburroughs9871
Жыл бұрын
Punk, brought to you by MEGA CORP RECORDS. Get your tee's at the mall!
@bakeone4406
Жыл бұрын
There are way more people on the planet now than at any point in history. The current population is so immense that generalizations about trends toward perfectionism or hedonism just don't hold up, (there's too much happening in multiple directions). That aside, there are dozens of artists who completely lay to waste the notion that all modern jazz musicians sound the same, many of them have pushed into areas beyond what might generally be thought of as jazz. If you haven't heard all the modern jazz musicians, the presumption that they "all sound the same" falls flat. Pointing this out is not an exercise in semantics, especially when you take into account how many innovative artists and record labels are overlooked by this channel and most of the people who are posting to agree w/ the tagline.
@rasheedlewis1
Жыл бұрын
It's a good thing we're not talking about all of the people on the planet, but specifically *popular* modern jazz players. At what point can one generalize and make categories, and when can they not?
@andrewdeez_
Жыл бұрын
Your point about record deals is THE most important point. Imagine you are a young jazz artist in the 80's and you are asked to write 3 albums over the course of a few years. You are going to write your music to the point where it is playable by the players. You aren't going to edit, quantise, or perfect it. Human music feels human because of the mistakes and the idiosyncrasies which is where the voice of these great players are heard. Everyone is SO afraid of making music that has any form of mistakes anymore. There are so many incredible Jazz artists and modern instagram guitarists who have never recorded an album. I have friends who have never put out their music because it wasn't "perfect." Just fuckin record some shit and put it out there!
@Leo_ofRedKeep
Жыл бұрын
Formulas are the logical consequence of a competitive environment. People repeat the last thing that worked in hope it will work again. There is no ideology to it, just bare survival.
@jaybolsega1861
Жыл бұрын
I like the idea of Hendrix playing the national anthem at Woodstock as maybe the apogee of that phase or maybe that was his burning his guitar at Monterey. He was the unleashed individual expressing himself. It was a wild time, new, a breaking thru and music and society have restrained itself since then. Hard to say what new music is today tho it is genres splintered into many factions and is often in a background, as we exercise, or as part of a movie, and so doesn’t seem as central to our lives.
@richardthurston2171
Жыл бұрын
"and so doesn’t seem as central to our lives." Possibly it's because we are older now and have wider experience and different interests. I imagine much of this audience is roughly the same vintage as Andy, I'm a bit older. That said I'm reading a lot of posts here where assertions are made that music was better back in the day and the musical landscape of today is a vast wasteland. Kind of a conservative take, but then baby boomer mythology is a real thing. Just as there is a lot of completely mediocre music being made today, there was no shortage of same back when Jimi set things alight. The music business back in 1968 or 69 was as ruthless and cutthroat as it is today (possibly more so) and "true individuality was as suspect then as now.
@108u9
Жыл бұрын
IMO I think the term “cycle” is a bit of a misnomer. Granted it’s quite a popular notion that has come up repeatedly in attempts to storytell, condense histories (itself a story) and illuminate patterns. ‘Cycle’ implies a notion of going back again. Like an image of a circle that loops back around. IMO it’s less a ‘cycle’ but more a ‘rhyming’. I am also dubious that the people of past eras were often so singular sure in the ways we speak of them in the present. As the adage goes, things make sense when we look back. The idea that we see music more than we hear music as it pertains to virtuosity on an instrument is interesting. Perhaps as it connects to the contemporary context of screens and cameras, it may feel as a way to visually mark ourselves. It in a way, it’s a path of trying to stand out by being “the best”. Pretty much every basketball player plays the same way but the culture celebrates those who perform “best”. The world of fashion (not the fast fashion circuit) IMO is bubbling. In some ways I suspect because of the availability of new technologies in materials, ideation (E.g. CAD), and manufacturing. Perhaps a slow down of technological advancements is implicating where jazz musicians can go. I think there’s a place for both approaches. Just as with food, there’s a space for the avant garde chef or restaurant, just as is the bakery that has been serving up the same pastries they have over decades and decades with grandma’s recipe. Perhaps too sounding the same, repeating is a way of the collective consciousness to try to connect, to try to unify, to try to find comfort and solace amidst chaotic times. We mimic our musical heroes/idols because on some level we resonate and connect with them. To sound like them is in some way trying to connect to them. At a macro level, it begins to weave a tapestry of a cohesive sound; to be alike in a choral manner, which to coincide with the emergence of the ‘playlist’, the DJ, perhaps incentivises doing so on a practical level. Just like how our mother’s lullabies helped us find a bit of warm and comfort, there’s perhaps much needed comfort to be had in a fractious, chaotic, divisive, anxious climate of crisis, strife and tension. IMO I don’t think harking to ‘Individualism’ is the way out of this problem (if we wish to see it as such). If we define ‘Individualism’ as the ethos of the person as an independent actor, who in a Capitalist system will own his/her own goods as separate from others, be conceptualised as separate from others, arguably a lot of the strife today can be traced in part to this long and continuing run of ‘Individualism’. There is understandably a sensitivity towards any suggestion of considering the notion of ‘Others’ in our lived reality (the term ‘Marxist’ was thrown up here, and I sense in a rather derogatory flavour). IMO the way forward through the “problem” is to embrace that most of us, if not arguably all of us, long to be seen. If we can act in good faith and just help each other along that path (back to the subject of jazz, whether they want to be the next Marcus Miller, or they want to explore and experiment with ideas to expand jazz). I sense Fred Rogers got it right. When he asserted the importance of helping people when they are little kids to know they do matter and that someone does value them. I also sense the US Surgeon General is also on to something when he posits that ‘loneliness’ is a public health matter
@lupcokotevski2907
Жыл бұрын
1920's modernist architecture and furniture was way ahead of the curve. For example, the Barcelona chair is still being manufactured and still looks like it was designed today.
@narosgmbh5916
Жыл бұрын
A little revenge for Consequences: A lady from Poland m.kzitem.info/news/bejne/q2ulwGxmfZOVqJg
@johtfloridaman6227
Жыл бұрын
Dance music is what jazz needs to get back to. Simple, fun, electric. People aren't savvy enough for anything too difficult. Which is awesome bc dance is something we all can do ! The future of musicianship will be performance, personality, charisma, multidimensionalism bc of technology
@naderzekrya5238
Жыл бұрын
As much as I'm addicted to the savvy stuff, I can't disagree that the dance element is a healthier way forward
@johtfloridaman6227
Жыл бұрын
@@naderzekrya5238 man, if you could be playing a modern improv swing for a full house of people dancing, drinking, loving, sweating... To real people and REAL MUSIC! Tell me that wouldn't be awesome
@gatergates8813
Жыл бұрын
@kaos josh one of the best feeling while playing music (for me) is when people start dancing- I play folk songs mostly and didn't realize "The Times They Are A Changing" is a waltz until an old couple started waltzing to it one time
@johtfloridaman6227
Жыл бұрын
@@gatergates8813 That is super cool!! I want to bring that to the world so badly. One of the things I love about gypsy jazz, it brings out gods eternal groove, the one that makes you want to move, and urges you to keep on until kingdom come (or, the universal credits play lol). Its not only in that form of jazz, but that's what "baptized" me lol btw, I think improvisational folk music is probably the most pure and beautiful, for me. Also, the most primal
@jimichang5903
Жыл бұрын
have u read the book tough guy don't dance, me neither! 🕉
@TheLiverAndOnionGuys
Жыл бұрын
Just as you are saying, perfection must always collapse into chaos & chaos must always move towards perfection, A never ending cycle. It doesn’t matter if it’s in nature like a star or tree or created by man, same result. I believe as Ai progresses it will and must destroy itself. It may just eventually fizzle out or it could possibly take us all with it, but once again the same result. It must end. Scary and exciting. Hopefully in the end, there will still be someone left to sing about what happened in a beautiful imperfect voice.
@marknovak6498
5 ай бұрын
The imperfections of the audio from the predigital and a lesser extent when tubes were distorting the music smoothly and unpredictably in a happy accident. the era of 1967 to 1974 when we had the most distinct voicse. And now we try to get bathe there somehow but we can not put that era of music back together again. But we need less perfect. Off my soapbox.
@TractorCountdown
Жыл бұрын
It's like everything's atomised, both consumer and content, and you don't get a sense of the arts as a body, a community that you're part of. The BBC axed its arts review prog and film review prog, and I got a lot of info and entertainment from them (the hilariously morose Tom Paulin - there was even a band who named themselves after him). The last remaining Blockbuster is a tourist attraction in Oregon. Since the small DVD store closed near me in 2010 I've barely watched any new films - I'd go there with mates, browse, pick up some DVDs to watch together at the weekend, all gone. The upside is loads of brilliant KZitem channels, like yours, to watch. What I haven't seen is one that covers a broad spectrum of the arts, perhaps with a panel, one that changes as well.
@paulcowham2095
Жыл бұрын
Thanks again for another fascinating video Andy. You talking about culture shifting between perfectionism and the visceral was particularly interesting. Maybe the 20's in the 20th Century was like the romantic movement at the end of the 18th century -which was a visceral reaction to the industrial revolution.
@future62
Жыл бұрын
Your next video hints at what I was thinking. The larger the volume of existing music, the harder it is to be original and stand out. Though the algorithm rewarding reference over originality doesn't help.
@simonhoy7775
Жыл бұрын
I met my composition tutor from ACM in a cafe a few years after graduating and he said he had been teaching in China. He said there was a total lack of individuality among the musicians and it makes sense. We are actually very free as individuals but there is a certain lack of radicalism that is lacking. Its very noticeable in EDM as well, production values very high but a lack of emotional content. It's a reflection of how things are politically. I sense the arts in other parts of the world are not subject to the cycles you identified.
@docsketchy
Жыл бұрын
A bone to pick: I don't believe that emotion comes from "the spaces between the grid" or has anything to do with imperfections of performance or conception. I believe that in music, most of the time, emotion comes from form. Form is something that you (and most other commentators) almost never talk about. For me, the highest emotional point of any composition occurs near the end, at the recapitulation of the main themes. Three examples from prog rock, two positive and one negative: 1) Yes: Close to the Edge -- In the final section, with the part that begins "The time between the notes relates the colour to the scenes..." This is a recapitulation of the initial vocal verse "A seasoned witch..." but is played with more confidence, more solidity. Then comes the "Close to the Edge" chorus, and finally, the climax, the final three utterances of "I Get Up, I Get Down" which just takes your breath away. All through this final section, Yes has manipulated the listener's emotions to a nearly ecstatic state, and they've done it almost entirely with form. 2) Yes: Awaken -- Again, this piece follows Bartok's "Golden Ratio" principle, with the climax of the piece occurring not at the end, but near the end -- at least, more than halfway through, after the long and beautiful development section involving harp and pipe organ. The climax begins with a four-stanza lyrical sequence (master of images, master of light, master of soul, master of time) -- which in itself is a very effective formal procedure used by Yes and Jon Anderson again and again -- and then there is a thrilling organ cadenza, followed by an ever-rising instrumental climax capped off with a choir. After this, the piece comes back down to a very relaxed ambient atmosphere, and the initial vocal section is recapitulated ("High vibration go on..."). If you aren't more or less on the verge of tears at that point, then you are not fully alive. Once again, Yes has manipulated our emotions, almost entirely with form. 3) Genesis: Supper's Ready -- This is a piece which goes through many different, and more or less unrelated, sections of music, and only really nods to form at the end, when the initial musical and lyrical themes are recapitulated ("And it's, "Hey, babe, with your guardian eyes so blue...""). This is, for me, the first truly emotional part of the piece, and it builds to an effective climax ("Lord of lords, king of kings, has returned to lead his children home, to take them to the new Jerusalem."). However, Genesis then blows it by fading this final section out in a fairly ineffective way -- what KZitemr Jim Newstead referred to as a "wet fart" in a recent video. Anyway, my point is that real emotion in music comes from the manipulation of form, and has little to do with whether a performance is perfect or imperfect.
@syn707
Жыл бұрын
Lovely Andy. I knew music came in cycles but never thought to the depth you posit here. Sure makes you wonder.
@donaldfrazell9540
Жыл бұрын
As a painter I see the same with rise of art schools about 1962. Codified by mediocrities at the direction of their Masters. Look who arts "patrons" are. The enemy. As always, follow the money and consider the source. But artists are about an entitled lifestyle now. A disconnect from nature. Line color structure. Melody harmony rhythm . Mind soul body. Based on scientific concepts not flakey self absorbed artschool and organic order.
@JunkerOnDrums
Жыл бұрын
Good points. Anyway: Modernism describes the period you are talking about from 1920 onwards. Modernity goes back to the 18th century with the French Revolution and the separation of science from the church. Before jazz music and away from the Victorian era, in France, for example, you had Debussy, who harmonically foreshadowed what would later develop in jazz harmonics. Postmodernity is theories about the time after modernity, which arose in the 1980s and 1990s. :D
@narosgmbh5916
Жыл бұрын
In GB Modernity starts in 20th century. It is said, they had a 200year gap. "Land without music" I know it is unfair
@JunkerOnDrums
Жыл бұрын
@@narosgmbh5916 There is a difference between modernism and modernity - also called the Age of Enlightenment: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernity
@narosgmbh5916
Жыл бұрын
@@JunkerOnDrums i tried a joke.doesn't seem to have arrived
@JunkerOnDrums
Жыл бұрын
@@narosgmbh5916 Okay - got it :D
@peterlahti7267
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting description of the past 100 years of cultural history. There is another important dichotomy: between the individual and the group. 4 times 1 can be equal to The Beatles. Today we are all isolated in front of our individual screen, much fewer youth form garage-bands. We should also add the perspective of thousands of years of human development, how art has reflected society. How our culture will evolve depends on how our society, the media landscape and inter-relations between us humans will evolve. The future doesn't look very bright...
@syater
6 ай бұрын
Plus, at least politically, the current world stage increasingly resembles the era before the First World War (to which Andy makes reference) but with much more devastation possible from the hands our current batch of chest-beaters.
@naderzekrya5238
Жыл бұрын
I reckon jazz is still going strong. Of the many hundred jazz albums that keep coming out each year these days, there's plenty of pushing dynamite stuff happening. Sometimes off-puttingly difficult but the more you listen the more you love and recognise the players, then it all makes sense. Jazz is relatively young and truly still alive. Lots of American, Israeli, Armenian, Mediterranean type people, mature players moving away from the excitement of the "big bang era" towards "outer universal spheres
@johtfloridaman6227
Жыл бұрын
It's become too obscure Really need to get back to basics for the commoner
@naderzekrya5238
Жыл бұрын
not yet for me it ain't. I enjoy travelling "out there", but sure - bring on the simple + the dance vibe too. I love songs, modern RnB sounds etc. I love it all !
@stanislavpocaji
Жыл бұрын
I like Your videos Keep on with Good work. I like Rick Beato also, but Your channel is more inspiring and i Love this philosophical point of view. 🤗🙏
@adrianpaulwynne
Жыл бұрын
Interesting analysis. Emotional vs technical, interpersonal vs systematic, freedom vs control One consequence is that interest in the arts has waned as we (collectively) have bought into the idea that people don't matter as much as ideologies, corporations etc. Maybe it will rebound
@jazzkuramatto
Жыл бұрын
A fantastic video! This is becoming my new favorite channel.
@spacechallenger5767
Жыл бұрын
Most people have come to the point where they take the internet and the content on it, and its use too seriously. With all of the information and entertainment out there, everyone ultimately begins to see, discuss and mimic and enjoy the same things, based on the algorithm. Hence, the lack of diversity or individuality. Maybe the key is to cultivate ideas and art outside of the internet space. There’s all this extra space now out here in Reality, waiting to be filled up again. And the pendulum swings. .. . .
@ISuperTed
Жыл бұрын
The great jazz musicians rise up out the soup the same way they ever did - there are plenty of individual voices of genius out there. The problem is the soup can is much much bigger now!
@erikheddergott5514
Жыл бұрын
I really like this Trilogy but I beg to differ, my experience is that Peoples who are into r teachable Jazz like Bop and Fusion very often do not get into the Wilderness where nonteachable Jazz is played. Every Location that has Fundings by the State, the County and the Cities which are not constrained to Classical Music still present Jazz that sounds different to the „Standard“. I live in a Continental European Country where there are still Places as I described above and that is why I live in the Luxus of hearing Non-Streamlined Jazz. Sure the streamlined Jazz also exists in Continental Europe, the more so where there are State founded Music Academies that offer also Jazz on a Bachelor or Master Level, But there they teach the teachable Stuff: Bop and Fusion. So State founded Locations present the Jazz that is not taught in State founded Music Schools. Sounds paradox, but it leads to the Situation that freshly Academy minted Youngsters have to learn the unteachable Jazz by them selves. If they do not they turn into School Teachers, coz nobody wants to hear their conventional Stuff more than twice.
@jeremyhickersonsalem
Жыл бұрын
great topic, glad you made another video on it!
@paulmartinson875
Жыл бұрын
Fascinating, great conversation
@rickwills4281
Жыл бұрын
Excellent discussion.
@kaieckhardt8261
Жыл бұрын
Dude you are on to something. That is the key to escaping from the mental prison of the world. See the context and understand the connections. That dynamic will never go away for a billion years and if you can identify with it all holistically nothing every happens to you ! (I mean that in a good way. There is peace in the eye of the hurricane !) Thanks a lot for the insights. Have a great day.
@Hartlor_Tayley
Жыл бұрын
Great chat and interesting how things cycle. Thanks.
@althomson8782
Жыл бұрын
We're long overdue a new cycle. Jazz need a punk revolution. Trouble is the jazz police would never accept the musicians or even allow them on stage. Be hard. We need a revolution.
@ambientideas1
Жыл бұрын
The Strauss-Howe generational theory, or Fourth Turning suggests we are in a 4th stage of disintegration now, and music is not exempt from those cultural forces. Just look back at ‘Golden Eras” of art, music, film and you can clearly see we are not in one now; not even close.
@jrileycain6220
Жыл бұрын
So well articulated.
@scotteagles4864
Жыл бұрын
Andy -- Marxism, and scientific socialism in general, is fundamentally about economic democracy, not a synthetic or idealized communal utopia. Economic democracy is a key to individual emancipation realized through the collective. Nobody is free unless we are all free. There. Now I feel better.
@juliematthews6961
Жыл бұрын
Well spoken.
@thaddeuspinkney5823
Жыл бұрын
Well said. Thanks.
@philblondeel521
Жыл бұрын
Spot on !
@Leo_ofRedKeep
Жыл бұрын
The "Jazz age" took place in a country that had been barely affected by the first world war. There is no relation whatsoever. The "modernism" of 20th century Europe is the logical outcome of the waning of religious beliefs, a phenomenon started way back in the 18th century and supported by the spread of education at a popular level. Nietzsche did not decide that "God was dead", he observed it.
@Leo_ofRedKeep
Жыл бұрын
The "perfectionist" with a digital tool readjusting drum parts is not a perfectionist, he's just a guy who tries to keep a job by saying he can be cheaper than keeping you longer in the studio. He gets away with it because that job sounds lke it is always needed too. "Cheap perfection" is a proposition too hard to resist for a manager.
@NoraGermain
Жыл бұрын
I also think it’s quite alarming that much in modern media is a remake or a sequel or prequel, or some other extraction of some beloved thing that came before. There is very little financing available for taking risks. All the big movie studios for example just want a sure hit, so they finance all the boring stuff that’s been beaten to death 5 installments ago…
@SpookyLuvCookie
Жыл бұрын
your rap slaps homie Ferrets blud yo vids are fire fam
@SpookyLuvCookie
Жыл бұрын
props for the Neil Sedaka mention ... his music is amazing (Standing On The Inside and Cardboard California both great tunes)
@iangelling
Жыл бұрын
This last wave of the cycle leading to perfection has gone on far too long. Across many genres of music in the last 30 years the only real change has been in technology. Technology that creates cookie-cutter music. It may be a generalisation but there are teenagers into heavy rock now who listen to an output spanning 50 years of quite similar stuff. When I was a kid I was listening to punk and my Dad was still into Doris Day and Guy Mitchell. I’m old now and I struggle to find anything that is innovative or different enough to make it as disturbing to me as punk was to my Dad. So where is the hedonism coming from Andy? I don’t see it on the horizon.
@rasheedlewis1
Жыл бұрын
Look no further than at K-pop idol group Blackpink headlining the Coachella stage. True individuality and visceral emotion have left the chat, and we're all corporate cogs with a faked self-righteousness. I really do believe you're correct in saying that artists negotiate morality. The idea that Truth, Goodness, and Beauty are One is one of the bedrocks of Hellenistic and Classical Christian ideas. But the scholastic idea of art has been that art is supposed to imitate nature -- mimesis. What Wagner's _Tristan und Isolde_ brought was the idea of human will taking control from music's natural proportionality and harmonics and making it subservient to man's own idea of the Good, True, and Beautiful -- German idealism in musical form. Whether the scholastics or the moderns are correct, I have no clue. But you'd be hard-pressed not to admit that popular music has gone to far in finding beauty within solely human ideas and not having the individual musician explore the esotericism within art on his own to come up with his own musical language. This can only be done once the musician learns that Beauty can exist outside of himself or other people. This requires some acknowledgement that an Absolute Truth exists, which is against the postmodernism we have today where Truth is just the opinion of the "powerful" (tech corps, famous hack artists, etc).
@1eflat
Жыл бұрын
Hubris takes over, and Mediocrity Rules, and the Civilization crumbles - Repeated a thousand times thru Human History....
@Hartlor_Tayley
Жыл бұрын
I wonder if there is a market for hand cranked Victrolas ?
@PeffDada
Жыл бұрын
When someone plays me a straight ahead rock record I also know exactly what I am going to hear from the drummer. Rock drumming (including your's when you play straight ahead) is much more predictable and full of cliches. Modern jazz has a much wider stylistic diversity than any other form of music including all mainstream rock. It has also a much wider stylistic diversity than what happened in the Swing , Be-bop and Hardbop area. There are enough people in modern jazz I can immediately recognize by their style. Maybe these musicians are all under your radar (listen to music on labels like Clean Feed, Intakt or in your own country Incus, Leo or more recently Discus Music and in America Cuneiform records.....you will hear lots of fresh original music). And when you criticize people that they are only striving to be the next Vinny Colaiuta or Allan Holdsworth: give me some names than who they are. I don't know them . Everyone starts out as an imitator. Some never get rid of their imitators style, some do. It happened in all periods in music history.
@emanuel_soundtrack
Жыл бұрын
pls review the decadence of Jethro Tull assap
@PeterWetherill
Жыл бұрын
I don't think I sound the same. My influences are many going from the 1930s to now. But I play trombone and I am not perfect and not famous but I don't care because what I play shows my personality because I am not a perfect person. AI will never be able to replace a real jazz musician because of our imperfections!😮
@richardthurston2171
Жыл бұрын
Part 3 of “Why do modern Jazz musicians all sound the same.” They don’t. But it may seem that way to listeners whose context is limited (and limited it is) to the internet and, especially, KZitem.
@AndyEdwardsDrummer
Жыл бұрын
Did you watch the video?
@richardthurston2171
Жыл бұрын
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Absolutely! All the way through. I was curious what you might be up to. I took a look at your channel for the first time several months ago when you were bemoaning people 'being woke" and the 'neo-Marxists' and 'post-modernists' pushing 'identity politics' on an unsuspecting public.
@colinburroughs9871
Жыл бұрын
@@richardthurston2171 he's right you know..
@richardthurston2171
Жыл бұрын
“he’s right you know”. Actually, not. I quite like Andy’s drum lesson videos which is what got me to this particular program. That said, Andy’s morphing into a musical Jordan Peterson is kind of a drag frankly.
@colinburroughs9871
Жыл бұрын
@@richardthurston2171 no, he's correct, but thanks for not trying to be even casually persuasive, probably would be a waste of our time
@JHCdrums
Жыл бұрын
The Society of The Spectacle - Guy Debord
@Guitar6ty
Жыл бұрын
Sadly music of almost any genre is now just product. Lack of live music venues has impacted the music scene negatively. Its also more important to get a job and qualifications rather than mucking about in a band. At least digital technology means that if you are a musician you can record at home with a wide range of instruments which was undreamed of in the 60s and 70s. AI could be the death knell for the music industry but might not impact Art in the same way judging by some of the visual art that AI has vomited up recently. So what future for Jazz will it go the same way as photography.?? Music in schools has almost completely vanished from the curriculum and Jazz takes a lot of time to learn just as any instrument takes a lot of time and effort to master. Conversely poverty and deprivation was one of the driving forces of Blues Jazz and even the rise of the Beatles. Now you can be to poor for even that route of escape to be of any use so why would any kid on the block attempt it.
@ivrz
Жыл бұрын
Philosophy of art go go go
@daveduffy2823
Жыл бұрын
Tired old standards, schools teaching the same shit, and any book you get has the same licks and changes. There aren’t a lot of clubs anymore where new stuff can be made. So we get the same old stuff. Culturally, just about everything has been invented and done. It seems everything is looking back and not stumbling forward as it always did. Where is the new?
@billdubilier
Жыл бұрын
I totally disagree especially Jazz. There are many young players that have their own sound. In New York there are many new young musicians & lots of women too. Mary Halverson, Susan Alcord, Ava Medoza, Susan Eisenberg are all excellent guitarists with their own sound.
@naderzekrya5238
Жыл бұрын
I agree, in today's jazz there are hundreds of identifiable drummers, bassists, pianists, guitarists, saxes, tmpts, vibes player. Many top searching musicians with big ears, deep knowledge and sweet modesty
@narosgmbh5916
Жыл бұрын
Alcorn? Legend!wendy?.......we use the commentthread to practice guerrilla ad....
@billdubilier
Жыл бұрын
No never said legend just their own identifiable sound.
@narosgmbh5916
Жыл бұрын
@@billdubilier my two "?" Regarding the names.didn't you mean Susan Alcorn and Wendy Eisenberg? And Susan Alcorn is a legend for me.. I am with you , all 4 good examples that not everything is the same
@billdubilier
Жыл бұрын
Yes thanks I knew I had Wendy wrong but misspelled Alcorn
@ornettebreaker
Жыл бұрын
I disagree with your description of the woke idea. Woke points out the ways in which the society that has been created oppressed people and serves to help realize change to promote individuality. Which sounds like what you're talking about. This whole ideology serves to break from the conformist oppressors. I guess you could argue some take the pendulum too far and effectively become the conformist perfectionism you're describing. That being said great video. Though I do think it beneficial to talk more about black and brown culture without saying hedonistic. I've seen argued the biggest innovation of jazz was that it allowed black and brown cultures to become mainstream.
@galenanderson2541
Жыл бұрын
Techno!
@travelingman9763
Жыл бұрын
Jazz is life not cloned ideals! You are right! Clowns th8nk the Blues I.e the foundation is a scale. A fathead vibes player thinks that Its all about cloning. The fathead will never exceed Bobby Hutcherson.
@eximusic
Жыл бұрын
How many notes are there? My hedonism is perfectly orderly. Sublime wasn't a jazz band BTW. I'm not familiar with either visceral or perfect aught. What is aught?
@eximusic
Жыл бұрын
@@steveglossop Pleasure doesn't have to be sloppy.
@bryanhaynes5421
Жыл бұрын
Apollonian and Dionysian Read Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy
@RichardWong
Жыл бұрын
Because jazz musicians haven’t evolved past wanting to copying things they heard 70-80 years ago. With all due respect I couldn’t tell Joshua Redmon from any other modern sax player. Standards is another word for cover song. You can either be known for mimicking other peoples music or be known for creating your own.
@JoeOspallaDrums
Жыл бұрын
This will all be moot shortly when JazzGPT produces all the possible music evar. Hahaha
@laprofeciacj
Жыл бұрын
They pushed away the good musicians and The talented musicians and replace them with manufactured computer garbage created by the record labels. which I have no idea why they even still exist. I think the future is in the internet youtube and going on in discovering these geniuses of music like Tony Williams and John McLaughlin Allan Holdsworth in Miles Davis mainstream has abandoned talent for their agenda.their political views. It goes deeper it's a spiritual thing hip hop music now has these monster beats that are subliminal and affect a certain part of your mind. Jazz fusion had this beautiful spiritual positive energy about it music now is very dark and very negative and very demonic.
@LuDux
Жыл бұрын
If it's pendulum it will swing back. And if it's not swinging back yet, it's because it hasn't gone far enough in direction it's going now. And if you start pushing weight before it reaches limit, you'll just slow whole thing down. Anyway, here's pendulumwall kzitem.info/news/bejne/pK1srm2PrIZ9mKA
@ForcesInMotion
Жыл бұрын
"Why do modern Jazz musicians all sound the same?" There's a few possibilities. 1) Your listening radius is very narrow. 2) Your ears ain't so great. 3) Clickbait KZitem titles/videos are as clickbait KZitem titles/videos do.
@sonnyblu6299
Жыл бұрын
Everybody buying FUZZ boxes... as if it were 1967...
@RomanKosins
Жыл бұрын
Because we are on a civilizational decline. You can see it happen in the art of other civilizations as they began to collapse. It is always good to go back to the fundamentals. Any sacred traditional music is always a good training to fall back on and build from. A people that can’t pray and don’t know how to define what a woman is don’t make good music. My favorite sacred music traditions that I’m practicing at the moment are: Gospel music, North Indian classical music, and Lakota medicine songs. If you are able to hear some North American Native medicine songs you will notice that all popular music comes from that music. Nobody can swing a pentatonic scale on top of 4 to the floor as hard as the Indians. Moondog was the first to notice this fact. All swing comes from the North American Natives.
@Hartlor_Tayley
Жыл бұрын
You may have something there.
@MJ1
Жыл бұрын
Garbage
@Hartlor_Tayley
Жыл бұрын
Jazz collapse! Stocking up on canned food, water filters and ammo.
@davidwylde8426
Жыл бұрын
😂
@LuDux
Жыл бұрын
Jazz Collapse is the name of my Wynton Marsalis tribute band
@Hartlor_Tayley
Жыл бұрын
@@LuDux wow. That’s a terrific name. I had no idea. I bet it’s a great band!
@Hartlor_Tayley
Жыл бұрын
. I walked straight into that. Doh !!
@grumblekin
Жыл бұрын
Everything eventually homogenizes as gatekeepers establish themselves in academia and commercialization. Classical music, 300 years ago, was every bit as vigorous and experimental and innovative as jazz was in the 40s-50s before it turned into the exhibition of robotic Asian record players who were forced to practice from age 2 until their fingers bled. Anyone who does anything innovative or fun in classical music gets 0 professional exposure and ends up having to pimp Squarespace on their KZitem channel while playing covers of old video game music to survive. Jazz is becoming exactly the same, with Berkeley and other schools forcing kids into "jazz is whatever you want it be...no, except that" and popularization of fads and trends that spawn copycatting. There's 0 innovation. Your group that plays everything in 11/8 time because it's "cool" blends in with every other group that plays the exact same signature with the exact same chord progressions. Everyone's a professional buggy whip manufacturer and no one is working on the horseless carriage.
@rdpatterson2682
Жыл бұрын
Describing art is like desribing a joke, it doesn’t work. Metheny describes it as, “that thing”. That’s about as far as you can go. Words are qualifications and why music stands as the deep emotional language that IT is.
@michel-jeantailleur
Жыл бұрын
In the 19thC, art became "the new religion" and now art is all dogma and politics, so perhaps religion will become "the new art", an analogue art of symbols and community-making where the imperfections (yours) are part of the groove and the perfection (God's) is always beyond your reach. Nietzsche declared God to be dead circa 1882, maybe someone will come along soon and declare the death of Art.
@lupcokotevski2907
Жыл бұрын
When incredibly successful and rich civilizations see no perceived external threat, they start to rot from within through the delusion that ideological utopianism can be achieved. So, ironically, the quest for perfection leads to decline because good values become warped and degraded accompanied by anti human methodology.
@discoveryman59
Жыл бұрын
The melody behind mental illness........ JAZZ.... Just a lot of bloody noise.
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