Thank you for this video. I never played Dark Souls, but now I certainly want to play it. I was recently wondering if there is an open-world game nowadays, that has no map in it. When playing RDR 2 I realized that I'm looking at the minimap more than I do at the actual surroundings, which breaks the immersion. I also couldn't do without the map, as I'm easily lost, and feeling like I'm missing out on interesting places or random encounters by not having the radar on. I wonder if no map, or a Gothic-style map in a big and flat open world like this could possibly work.
@davidmcbride5357
2 жыл бұрын
Be careful dark souls is a little time consuming.
@GamedevAdventures
2 жыл бұрын
Some games are definitely built with a map in mind, but I think mini maps are almost always optional. If you need directions you can pull up the real thing and use it to orient yourself. However, if the real map is poorly implemented or nested in the menus it could be even more immersion breaking to get to it. But I hate it when people say "if you don't like the map just don't use it." Most games with extremely detailed maps use it as a crutch. The world doesn't have to be well designed or have notable landmarks because you are expected to just rely on the built in navigation tools and ignore what's actually going on around you. It would be really hard to find things in RDR2 without using the radar because that was never intended. Minecraft is one of the best examples of a truly open world with very limited mapping. You have to build your own maps out of paper, and if you run out of room on that piece of paper you need to make another map or expand the one you have.
@ratglyph
2 жыл бұрын
@@GamedevAdventures I took the advice of a random stranger on the Internet and tried playing Witcher 3 without a minimap, and it was a very unpleasant experience until I decided to put the minimap on again. It boils down to lack of landmarks, quest descriptions not being built with written directions in mind and huge landmass, as well as not having access to compass. I could (and did) use the map, but the transition from game world to an ingame menu was immersion-breaking, not immersive, especially considering I had to open the map all the time, usually to see where the quest marker is… in short, I can’t recomend NOT using a map in a game build around it, if you don’t know the game inside out already.
@RacingSnails64
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed on all points. There's just so many factors that mean a map would be awkward for Dark Souls, the fantasy theme and verticality being the biggest draws for me, as well as keeping the surprises hidden. (That 3D model of the world at 1:13 tho... That's amazing 😮👍) As well, I find committing 3D maps to memory to often be the easier and more expedient option than fiddling with a 3D hologram. (Ironically, trying to commit 2D maps to memory hurts my brain. In Hollow Knight I am CONSTANTLY checking my map to keep myself oriented. No idea why that is. You'd think it being 2-dimensional would make it easier!)
@GamedevAdventures
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe its because you don't have to. Your brain isn't going to put energy into learning the map if it has 24/7 access to a perfect picture of it. I think that's what it is for me. I even find this happens in real life when I rely on a GPS. I don't remember where I went as well because I was just focused on the device.
@QuackerHead-j
2 жыл бұрын
Before i even watch the video i'll answer myself. No real reason for Dark Souls to have a map as a game mechanic imo. Would be cool if there was some area in the late game where you could maybe look at a wall and see an overhead map of Lordran in its full glory, just to see where you've been in the world before. Dark Souls is not really that open world as let's say Elden Ring. There are some areas which ARE open like the Blight Town swamp or Lost Izalith (but we all know how those areas turned out). Dark Souls is mostly just narrow corridors tightly packed with enemies, sometimes with a background or setting that looks open, but you can't explore a lot of the places you can actually see like the thick forest near Andre/Sen's Fortress. I was holding off on posting this comment, and now that i watched the video i agree on what you said. Although 1 fix for players easily retrieving their souls by looking at the map would be to not show your bloodstain on the map in the first place.
@joeevans8531
2 жыл бұрын
I can’t see a single thing Elden Rings map took away from the game. I played DS 1 and 3 and didn’t like the DS games as much as Elden Ring.
@jmugwel
Жыл бұрын
I am so bad at orientating in space, that I'm literally can't play dark souls at all.
@AustinThinker79
Жыл бұрын
Having no ingame map is a huge flaw, which is finally resolved in Elden Ring. Getting lost for hours and constantly backtracking doesn’t add to the gaming experience.
@psilo-kj1ol
5 ай бұрын
Lol. Skill issue
@BenG6509
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t approve of the lack of a map. Bc that’s the only thing that provides fast travel and the game is so much more annoying without it
@Broockle
2 жыл бұрын
Darksouls has fast travel tho
@BenG6509
2 жыл бұрын
@@Broockle But you need a specific item to be able to do that, and you need to defeat a super hard boss to get it! Going through all that trouble to earn fast travel just isn’t my style. If it’s yours then that’s fine
@Broockle
2 жыл бұрын
@@BenG6509 hmm, I don't play many westernRPGs outside of like Skyrim. I didn't actually realize how odd the Lord Vessel is... Other games of reference I would use are Hollow Knight and BotW which both only let you teleport to key locations that you visited. I think my favorite fast travel is from Darksouls itself tho. Before you get the LordVessel you "fast travel" by unlocking short cuts, understanding the layouts, defeating unrespawnable enemies that block certain areas. The LordVessel at the end is really just the cherry ontop to make it easier for you to finish all the side quests so you can go finish the game already.
@chrislevack405
2 жыл бұрын
Loved this! Might I recommend recording a "room noise" track that you can play underneath your audio so when you cut, the sound doesn't go with you. Great video, sir!!! edit: a drone track, basically.
@GamedevAdventures
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Yeah I'm aware there is background noise. I'm still working on some sort of setup to get it taken care of but that is a great idea.
@thaprofessa2296
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder how much different a game New Vegas would be without the map. Or say that part of the pipboy was broken until you got to a certain point in the story. Probably would’ve been fire
@GamedevAdventures
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly I'm not sure. If feel like there are enough landmarks in the early game that it could work. But the map is sort of required once you get off the main roads. Its the sort of thing you could test if you had a friend who had never played the game that was down for a challenge haha.
@TheWernherVBraun
2 жыл бұрын
Very good video!
@GamedevAdventures
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@vans2548
Жыл бұрын
Another point about exploration is the lack of fast travel in Dark Souls. By preventing a quick escape or drop in, the game forces you to retrace your steps over and over, and through that you are rewarded by learning where every enemy is and how each area is laid out. Removing a map and fast travel allows you the chance to build a mental map of Lordran, and get the same experience you get in real life as a tourist or when you move to a new neighbourhood. Paths, caves, hallways all begin to look familiar, like home, reminding you of past adventures and misadventures, creating an even deeper connection to the world of Dark Souls.
@vhgiv
Жыл бұрын
Ya mapless Games are great. I do my best Not to Open the map To keep the mystery alive
@TheAssassin642
2 жыл бұрын
Do you also own the illusory walls channel? You sound just like him
@gabriel2fan
2 жыл бұрын
Ure legendary u should have more subs
@Juxxize
Жыл бұрын
I have never played dark souls,would I enjoy it ? What is it like playing? ,what could a player liken it to.?
@Juxxize
Жыл бұрын
In fact I don't think i've played any FromSoftware games actually. What would be a good one to start with?
@reyniknamyrion3557
Жыл бұрын
This went on longer than I expected. Basically, all the games by Fromsoft are rpgs set in decaying worlds where returning from death is effectively based on the will to live and keep fighting and you only die when you give up, a theme the company tries to reinforce through game design based on player needs rather than convenience - you have your choice of weapons and builds, here's where you will respawn and level up, now go and investigate the world, read item descriptions to try unpacking and interpreting the lore, kill bosses and try not to die before reaching the next bonfire. If you do you have one chance to retrace your steps and recover your xp and if you die before getting it back it's gone forever. While it can sound like a grindy slog it's deceptively engaging. The gameplay loop of risk and reward can be addicting - your progress and failure are entirely dependent on your own skill and you feel yourself learning more and getting used to everything as you master it, until things that seemed impossible to begin with are brushed past easily, even on some challenge run. Levelling up mostly serves to speed up the combat and improve your look instead of deciding whose ass gets kicked. You can have all the best equipment but if you suck you won't get far. As for where to start... Demon's Souls is the first but I would advise it being a 'see where it all began' thing instead of your first experience. The Dark Souls trilogy is where FS really nailed down their philosophy and DS1 is where I would start since it has the best mix of the original style and hints of where the design would improve. DS combat is based on taking it slow, learning enemy patterns and adapting to each and the lore is based around escaping the Cycle of Ages and the Curse of the Undead. Bloodborne is a lot of people's favourite, set in a gothic Victorian city where a disease is turning people into monsters, with the story taking a horror turn as the Lovecraftian elements of outer gods, dark magic and the truth driving people insane are brought into play. The combat is the inverse of Dark Souls', based on aggression and hacking through your enemies as fast as possible, although you still need to learn and adapt. Sekiro is the most story-focused, set in Sengoku era Japan with warring clans and is centred around a one-armed shinobi protecting his young lord and fixing the rotting curse being spread every time he himself dies. The combat is a rhythmic parry-based system where you endure your enemy's attacks and seek out opportunities to wear them down enough to deal a killing blow, with different enemies being more susceptible to different tools etc. Elden Ring is more the culmination or everything that has come before and should be played last although is stopping you from jumping in fresh. If I had to pick it would be DS1, Bloodborne, DS2, Sekiro, DS3, Demon's Souls, Elden Ring.
@Sauruseta
2 жыл бұрын
IS NOT STRANGE CLOSE THE VIDEO
@MerryOlSoulGigglesmith
2 жыл бұрын
You actually have to engage your brain in these games. Games that do too much handholding is boring (ubisoft)
@GracefulTrumpet
2 жыл бұрын
It's really easy to come up with an example. The first thing that comes to mind is Gothic. Though I do have to admit there is a map in the game but you won't have access to it immediately. That isn't the case for Dark Souls. An RPG without any map whatsoever? Can't think of an example other than the Souls games.
@SondreGrneng
2 жыл бұрын
Before watching the video I'll just comment my take on the question as explicitly stated. Why doesn't Dark Souls have a map? because it doesn't need one. I am not going to guarantee anything, but I am pretty certain you can put me in almost any room and I can tell you how to get there from Firelink shrine. Everywhere is visually distinct. Depending on how much I can actually see, I might not even need to look around.
@darrennew8211
Жыл бұрын
This is like the original Thief games. The maps were hand-drawn scribbles, with no detail anywhere that people hadn't already been. And some of them were labeled with symbols you had to find in the world to understand the map. (Like, the map would have a wheat stalk and you had to realize that meant the farm area.) They were literally represented as pieces of paper with outlines drawn on them by hand. Thief had a lot of verticality, but it wasn't reflected in the map, because you couldn't really guide yourself with the map anyway. kzitem.info/news/bejne/y4an3Xh9kap9m4o
@quantumastrologer5599
2 жыл бұрын
Having a map for a linear dungeon game is kinda weird.
@Broockle
2 жыл бұрын
what game are you talking about...?
@razielsghost6108
2 жыл бұрын
This was a pretty cool video, nicely done! There's some background noise the entire time thats a bit unnerving but overall am interested to hear more :)
@SimonHergott
Жыл бұрын
100% makes exploring more rewarding. A good example would be DayZ. The lack of typical map makes exploring much more compelling. When you do get lucky enough to find a map it's an in game paper map and you have to use your positional awareness to orient yourself or use a compass if you have one. I would love to see games like Elderscrolls 6 implement that kind of navigation.
@KubinWielki
Жыл бұрын
On the flipside, Wurm Online and (more recently) Outward did an interesting thing - you have a map, but it's not very detailed, and - more importantly - it doesn't show the player's position. You have to look around for landmarks and figure your relative position out with the use of a compass. Bonus points for Wurm, where the compass is an actual physical item you have to carry in your inventory, instead of being just an always-on HUD element. Those things *really* lend themselves to the sense of adventure and exploration. Great video, by the way. I really like your take on various games and your analysis of the different aspects of game design.
@indrast5203
Жыл бұрын
5:42 I have a stuffed nose and the moment and exhaling made the sound of the electric breath at the perfect time to sync with the animation
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