Her claim that Heisers' teachings are leading people to a works based faith is absurd. Heiser has said on many occasions that works do not merit salvation.
@JohnSmith-zs1bf
Ай бұрын
If you look up Michael heiser sermon on KZitem there is pretty much only 1 that comes up and it's a great sermon on faith based salvation. One of my favorites of all time. And his parting message when he died was also a faith based salvation message.
@scubaoctopus
Ай бұрын
This one was the worst claim. I agree!
@derrickstarr5542
Ай бұрын
@JohnSmith-zs1bf oh yeah. That's the one where he mentions a Mormon who contacted him right. I've seen it. It's a great sermon.
@derrickstarr5542
Ай бұрын
@@scubaoctopus Amen. 🙏
@JohnSmith-zs1bf
Ай бұрын
@@derrickstarr5542 yes that one!
@TheSanePentecostal
Ай бұрын
I knew Doreen when she first converted, was mentioned in her book and helped disciple her. All that said I have been deeply, deeply concerned for years about the path she is walking. I am so glad others are starting to see the bad fruit that has come of her getting sucked into the cessationist calvinist camp that demonizes everything and everyone that isn't them. It's slanderous, cruel and ungrateful of her to speak so poorly of Heiser who was one of the few people that embraced her with love and gentleness when she first converted. I did two videos about my concerns. If you're a Doreen fan please watch and don't get your doctrinal advice from her. Yes thank God she got saved out of the New Age but that doesn't make her an expert on Biblical doctrine. She's still a novice and is not qualified to be teaching.
@lauralovesjesus
Ай бұрын
very well said 👏👏👏
@johnmclaughlin4496
Ай бұрын
I believe she's doing a lot of harm. She has reacted to things of her past out of fear and that keeps her from coming to the knowledge of the truth.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@TheSanePentecostal. I actually take issue with the claim that Doreen is a "novice" and is not "qualified" to be teaching. Having a doctorate, but not being able to properly exegete Scripture, does not make you a better teacher. If I'm not mistaken, Doreen at least has taken graduate courses in theology and has received a degree. So I would not be so quick to dismiss her or her concerns on the basis of her being an alleged "novice."
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@@johnmclaughlin4496 Actually, it's Heiser's false teachings and bad Bible interpretation that is doing and has done lots of harm. Heiser has taught so many how NOT to read the Bible correctly, so much so that he has "trinitarian" evangelicals thinking that Genesis 1:26 and other passages where God uses plural pronouns of Himself is not the Triune God speaking within Himself. Really? But the passages themselves do not say God is speaking TO anyone else. Yet Heiser has folks believing what the text doesn't say. I call that cultish and very harmful.
@kabodick
Ай бұрын
Sadly, she has many that hang on her every word. A friend of mine being one of them…☹️
@DiGi377
Ай бұрын
Doreen Virtue in her zeal to be a good Christian after leaving the new age became massively legalistic. She had taken it upon herself to make public videos on why certain doctrines are wrong & her take on them is the correct one. Eg she is a cessationist. It is a very rigid mindset & extremely legalistic. Not surprised but saddened to hear she's now decided to 'correct" Dr Heiser.
@ScottAlanBecker38
Ай бұрын
I am extremely wary of recently saved Christians attempting to teach others. Paul the Apostle took several years after his conversion to learn the faith. Doreen strikes me as a chick trying to make a name for herself and immediately jumping into the fray. Paul warned about new disciples and their overzealousness.
@michaelshannon6558
Ай бұрын
The fact that she didn’t allow commenting on the video tells me she’s not open to correction. For that reason, I decided not to watch it.
@quinntemple5679
Ай бұрын
This is just another example of the pendulum swinging in the right direction but traveling far past the goal into another false teaching. I appreciate her point of view, but she seems to have gone completely into an anti anything supernatural. It's perplexing.
@rosemarietolentino3218
Ай бұрын
1 Corinthians 13:8. Says that Prophecies will fail and tongues will cease…. It is written!
@dartheli7400
Ай бұрын
@@ScottAlanBecker38 May I ask where exactly Paul warned about new disciples and their overzealousness?
@arthurwoodson288
Ай бұрын
I'm a Reformed Baptist ( Calvinist) & don't necessarily agree with Dr. Heiser on everything, but deeply appreciate his teaching on the divine council & as he says these teachings are not new. I have read from other theological books that mention these teachings.I believe she is over zealous because of her background in New age. Peace!
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
I don't see how a Calvinist could believe in the Divine Council. The Calvinist confession of faith specifically says that God operates only according to his own council. It goes out of its way to refute the possibility of God working in cooperation with anything or anybody. The divine council is predicated upon God participating with his creations, which is completely impossible according to the Calvinist divine decree.
@knockoutfever4
Ай бұрын
Calvinism is heresy. Why would anyone follow the teachings of Calvin (although modern Calvinists don’t even accept some of Calvin’s doctrine)
@litpath3633
Ай бұрын
The "experts" admitted to not really reading or listening much to Heiser's work and all of it was a mischaracterization of what he really talked about.
@adrianstorm474
Ай бұрын
@@litpath3633 EXACTLY! It was one big straw man. Admittedly, I haven’t fully committed to Heiser’s views; however, I certainly respect him. The panel, though they had a number of scholastic things to say, egregiously misrepresented Heiser to the point that it was almost arguments based on ridicule. Thus, I couldn’t agree with her panel EVEN IF I whole heartedly disagreed with Heiser (which isn’t the case with me)
@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity
Ай бұрын
what you said is exactly what I would write if you haven't already. Doreen is so paranoid of being misled yet again, that she is easy pray to be being misled AGAIN. wish she would use her own brain or at least not speak of Heiser and not give other's platforms to make up things about Heiser that he said that he didn't say. Doreen said Heiser said he discovered something new all by himself 2000 years after Jesus. ??? and I listened and read Heiser extensively to be rather confident he never ever said this and everything else they criticised him for he never said or specifically protested that he never said. somehow Doreen at All against Heiser decided he advocated polytheism? where?
@brendanlucero8585
Ай бұрын
Thank you for covering this. I enjoy her work. However, I can not abide her video she put out on him. He has single handedly reinvigorated my faith, as well as brought the faith to dear loved one of mine who were previously in the new age. I pray for her.
@JewandGreek
Ай бұрын
Doreen Virtue critiquing Dr. Heiser is like Taylor Swift critiquing Bach.
@Angel-cu5mf
Ай бұрын
😂😂
@JewandGreek
Ай бұрын
Welcome to my world. I've done several video responses to Doreen's misinformation and mischaracterizations of charismatics like me.
@UnderTheFloor79
Ай бұрын
Heiser was a weasel.
@Eloign
Ай бұрын
@@UnderTheFloor79 Based on?
@jansongunn4214
Ай бұрын
😂😂😂😂😂
@busfeet2080
Ай бұрын
Very convenient that they decide to slander Heiser after he’s passed away and is unable to defend himself. Heiser was an incredibly humble man. And yes, what they did is tantamount to slander - they FREQUENTLY attributed heretical positions to him which he never held, and frequently attributed quotes to him which he never said. That constitutes slander.
@pennyc8572
Ай бұрын
This is what got me the most. Them slandering Dr. Heiser left and right with him not here to defend himself. Very disappointed with Doreen. That is why I’m so very glad the Sentinel crew took the time to do this very thorough video addressing the multiple falsities and out of context statements made in the Doreen video. I hope more folks do the same on different platforms as well. As it’s said, often a lie goes around the world twice before the truth even gets its shoes on.
@busfeet2080
Ай бұрын
For the record: Heiser has never, ever said 1 Enoch should be considered scripture. He has said THE OPPOSITE. Heiser never, ever said “he discovered this stuff.” He frequently said THE OPPOSITE. His only goal, as he saw it, was to summarize the 2T and ANE literature for laymen. He is not “bedfellows” with Mormons. He has countless videos, podcasts, etc. refuting their misuse of his work. Maybe he is “bedfellows” with critical scholars, but I’m sorry, I think this is a GOOD thing. If even atheists agree with many of the things he says, it’s probably because it’s so rooted in fact that nobody can realistically deny it (except for the fundamentalists in the slanderous stream against him).
@j.sargenthill9773
Ай бұрын
agreed, where were these arguments 2 years ago? or 10 years ago? Heifer wasn't exactly hiding all this. and like he said, it was already there.
@rpoetic
Ай бұрын
Dude I was thinking the samething
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@busfeet2080. It's very easy to slander Heiser critics while claiming Heiser was slandered, and to assume that they only decided to do this after he passed. Well, if you actually do some research instead of making assumptions, you would find that some of these people corresponded with Heiser BEFORE he passed, and he brushed them off and did not address their valid Biblical concerns.
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
What bothers me is she always turns her comments off but asks us to keep an open mind .
@Mairiain
Ай бұрын
To be fair, she states in her video descriptions that she's too busy to keep track of comments but to please reach out to her directly and gives her contact information.
@lindamalkas3302
Ай бұрын
Thank you for this. I was shocked by the Virtue video. Dr Heiser was a scholar that could speak to the lay audience. Doubtless he has lead many to Jesus. I’m very grateful for the body of work he has left behind.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@lindamalkas3302. Dr. Heiser was a scholar who needed to take a Bible hermeneutics class and a logic course, as he frequently distorted passages and used flawed logic to arrive at his conclusions. Now I know this because I've learned both Biblical Hebrew and Greek on the graduate level, and I'm studying for my Master's of Divinity at one of the top evangelical schools in this nation. Unlike Heiser, who attended a liberal graduate school, my education and theology comes from an evangelical school.
@daniellowry660
Ай бұрын
@CRoadwarrior so you aren't reading outside your fundamentalist bubble? Why are you emphasizing your evangelical schooling?
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@@daniellowry660 Who said I was not reading outside my "fundamentalist" bubble? You assume too much. The point is, Heiser is bringing liberal, flawed theology into evangelical circles, and evangelicals are falling for it, hook, line, and sinker, when normally they wouldn't.
@daniellowry660
Ай бұрын
@CRoadwarrior if you think Heiser is promoting liberal theology than you're really not reading enough at the evangelical school of yours
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@@daniellowry660 If you don't think Heiser is pushing liberal theology, then you haven't done the necessary research to know this to be true. For example, what evangelical scholar do you know that teaches Gen. 1:26 is NOT the Triune God speaking within Himself? Please enlighten me on that one,
@clarkemery117
Ай бұрын
I’ve noticed a lot of podcaster types seeking to correct Heiser after he died, but I don’t recall many debating with him while he was alive.
@brendanlucero8585
Ай бұрын
A lot of people, including Zachariah Sitchin when he was alive, flat out, refused to debate him because he's a master of his craft.
@plumbago379
Ай бұрын
Ooooh yes, your correct! They don't dare to debate dr heiser because they can't beat him...
@plumbago379
Ай бұрын
I love the works of Dr. Heiser! That's why I unsubscribe dooren's channel...
@JBly4
Ай бұрын
This is flat out untrue...lol A simple Google search will show you thousands of critiques of him from years ago.
@brendanlucero8585
Ай бұрын
@JBly4 Critics, yes, but debates? None that I'm aware of.
@clarkemorledge2398
Ай бұрын
Thank you for doing this. Doreen Virtue's video is so disappointing in so many ways. She means well, but completely missed it. She treats Heiser like the New Age garbage she left years ago, which is nothing further from the truth. This repeated claim that Michael Heiser had himself invented Divine Council theology shows a complete disregard for a peer reviewed examination of the evidence. She turns an apologetic for the Gospel rooted in the early church into its opposite. How many will be led astray by this? So sad. So sad.
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
I think her meaning well is wishful thinking on your part. If you make a video dragging a deceased person's name and life's work through the mud and then upload it to the internet, you don't mean well.
@johnkngs
Ай бұрын
I think people forget that Heiser was Christ centric, believed in the Trinity and people are taking these fascinating stories in the Bible about Nephilim Giants Demons Fallen Angels UFO's book of Enoch as having more influence on humans living on the earth today. It's always about Christ's supremacy in all things
@allisoncollins2988
Ай бұрын
So crazy how I saw her podcast on this yesterday and then I stumble upon this podcast. I was frustrated and prayed to the Lord about what she was saying. I asked him to show me the truth. The people on her podcast t were taking Mike's words out of context. They were saying that he said things that he didn't say and that he meant things he didn't mean. They were putting words in his mouth. And then, she turned off comments so you couldn't refute what they were saying. Thanks for covering this.
@OneBraveWoman
Ай бұрын
Thank you for making this video. I noticed the comments were turned off on her video. I also noticed she waited until Dr. Heiser passed away before she posted this video, which I think is cowardly. Obviously neither she nor her guests were familiar with Dr. Heiser’s teachings. Dr. Heiser devoted his entire life to the study of God’s word. I’m sure he had a grand entrance to glory. His teaching has helped me tremendously.
@1momsway
Ай бұрын
@@OneBraveWoman - Doreen was friendly with Heiser. She did know him. I’m familiar with his work and her work. Unfortunately, I think some of his scholarship has been hijacked by certain teachers who are using it (improperly) to justify some very unbiblical spiritual warfare teachings, and seeking to gain political power re:territorial spirits, etc. Also, new Christians coming out of the New Age, who find his work tend to put too much emphasis on the Book of Enoch, and they interpret Heiser’s concepts through their New Age/metaphysical lens, to their detriment. I believe that Doreen & Marcia are reacting more to these abuses of Heiser’s work, more than to the work itself. I’m sad to see all of these misunderstandings and I hope it does not cause division between true believers. But truly, those of us who DO understand his work, and accept the explanatory narrative it provides, need to be very careful about how we are sharing it, so that we do not, accidentally promulgate any of the errors in these camps. We need to make sure we are always pointing to the sufficiency of scripture and the supremacy of Christ - it does not honor Heiser’s legacy if we defend HEISER’S name over the name of Jesus. Everything Heiser pointed out in scripture, I do hold to, authoritatively. But extra biblical resources, regional linguistic clues, cultural context, etc - these are helpful, but we must hold these lightly. In the same way that there is no God like YHWH, there is no source material on par with the Bible. When we share Heiser’s work, we need to be evangelizing. Heiser says the Great Commission, the spreading of the Gospel is the warfare that matters. Let us keep turning people toward Jesus and not put undue attention on Heiser, Enoch, etc.
@marlenestewart7442
Ай бұрын
Miss Virtue has comments turned off on all her videos.
@OneBraveWoman
Ай бұрын
@@marlenestewart7442 Well of course she does…😂That way, she’ll never be challenged when she is in error, like she is in this particular video she made about Dr. Heiser.
@OneBraveWoman
Ай бұрын
@@1momsway She may have been friendly with Dr. Heiser, but she obviously wasn’t familiar with the scope of his work. Nor were her guests,apparently. He has said over and over again that the book of Enoch isn’t Scripture. If people misinterpreted that, that’s on them and they did not do their due diligence on their own to study God’s Word. I’m sure Dr. Heiser would be appalled at the discord this has caused, and that’s Miss Virtue’s fault for not doing her homework. She may have known him, but interestingly she waited until he was gone to make this video.I am not defending Dr. Heiser as a person, although he seemed to be a lovely man. I am defending his body of work, which consistently lifted up the name of Jesus and clarified the Old Testament to many, many people over the course of the years. His work isn’t holy Scripture, however, and should never be given that title. I agree with you 100% on that.
@GutsStan
Ай бұрын
I've noticed, that since the late Dr. Heiser passed there have been a lot of "critiques, refutations, debunkings" etc. Suddenly popping up, to me, this suggest not so good things about the motivations behind them. I think your response and energy was spot on, also enjoyed the contribution by those on the panel bravo guys. It's okay to offer constructive pushback, but I didnt appreciate what I saw as sus misrepresenting (intentional or not) on Virtue's part, I have a very strong idea that if Heiser was alive she’s wouldn’t have “corrected” his work.
@sephrose88
Ай бұрын
Thanks for doing this stream! I've been subscribed to Doreen's channel for longer than I've been familiar with Dr. Heiser's work and was very surprised by her video. I couldn't believe the things she and her guests were claiming to the point I was wondering if we've read the same material. At this point I've read nearly all of his books and listened to many hours of his podcast. I was raised in a cult, I know what gnosis sales looks like. I agree with much of Dr. Heiser's work, maybe not all of it, but it's not disguised gnosticism. I am just floored by this claim. It seems to me she is seeing his work through the lens of her first disagreement with him and cannot get past it. Most of all though I was horrified by the things she said about his character. She is entitled to her beliefs and convictions, but that was entirely uncalled for. It wasn't necessary to make her argument. I think she owes the Heiser family an apology.
@KenGi973
Ай бұрын
"she is seeing his work through the lens of her first disagreement with him and cannot get past it. " Yep, that's my feeling too. And i was surprised they also attacked his character, claiming he did this to be 'special'. They have no idea what his motivation was, it was a reach. From what I saw of him, he was a humble guy.
@DonieleEdwards
Ай бұрын
Same here, I was subscribed to her channel before becoming deeply familiar with Dr. Mike's work and used to watch every one of her videos. I then noticed that she was becoming more critical of every supernatural aspect of our faith and considered any supernatural experience as demonic. I agree with your bewilderment about if you were both reading the same thing as from her critique, it seems as though someone gave Doreen a different script.
@CC-mb8fi
Ай бұрын
I came out of serious occult in Aug '83. Went to bible and mission school. Went back to the streets to do 1 on one ministry to the unlovely- homeless, druggies, drunkards, gang bangers and occultists. I have continued that untill this day, 41 years later. I have been in and observed different denominations, and EVERY SINGLE ONE has the "us and them" mentality, with the isolation techniques perfected if you disagree. Now a days its easier with social media to simply hide behind a screen and criticize Yet, the main task of "go into all the world and preach the gospel..." is not being done. Strange that another "if you believe in Christ alone for your salvation youre in, if you dont youre not" believer like dr Mike is attacked AFTER his passing, and continued his work even from his deathbed should make one ashamed. If you have an issue with another believer, go to them, and speak it out, dont wait untill they gone to attack when they cant defend themselves. If you have an issue, dont read or follow their stuff. Simple. And then go teach what you believe to be correct. JESUS told HIS disciples to ignore those that were teaching about HIM even though they were not disciples because the kingdom is being preached. HE never told them to go attack these others. And we are admonished not to break down a brother or sister as we BOTH have the same MASTER and are beating HIS SERVANT......emphasis on servant in the fold. Dr Mike never advocated one denomination above another and often had others whom he viewed as brothers or sisters on his podcasts to air their views and allow his listeners to read or buy their material and make up their own mind. I have personal experience of dark manifestations and continue to this very day because we are confronting the occult with the gospel in the streets. So i can take Dr Mikes views and easily apply because of my experience because it both lines up. With out criticizing anyone else that names the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, i say grow up, get out and go spread the gospel so that there is not fighting and bickering among you. Be busy speaking HIM WHO DIED AND ROSE AGAIN AND ID SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER instead of hammering others around you. As a body, we each have different views, the hand does not know what the eye sees or what the feet feel.......get out and do instead of sit and criticise. I reckon our Savior is unhappy with each saying "i am of Paul, i am of Apollos..." etc Me, I AM OF JESUS CHRIST, THE GOD OF MY SALVATION.
@JesseDCS1
Ай бұрын
I saw the video, but refused to watch it. Thank you so much for defending Dr Heiser 🙏🏻
@malvokaquila6768
Ай бұрын
Dr. Heiser's work helped me be a better Christian. By making ancient semetic concepts available to be conceived. Doreen's work said what I already knew, that new age was nonsense.
@snipeswashere
Ай бұрын
The christian men in my life that really made difference in my life all said to not follow them or put them above God and heiser was the same way. Very humble. His work has inspired me to learn more. I believe heiser was right.
@mimimimz6719
Ай бұрын
I could watch only first 15-20 minutes of Doreen's video. I didn't continue because it was clear to me that she's is NOT even familiar with Dr. Heiser's teachings and work. How can you critique the work if you don't know it. And the expert that spoke first was (deliberately) misrepresenting and misinterpreting DMH. I can't trust the truthfulness and honesty of someone like that.
@elitedrumlessons6174
Ай бұрын
I watched the Doreen Virtue video last night. Before I watch this response I was amazed at how many people criticizing Heiser were misrepresenting Heiser’s position, especially in regards to polytheism and Satan in Job. They were also hung up on “gods”, and didn’t acknowledge that Heiser used the term elohim. It was kind of a jumbled mess!
@slippery_slobber
Ай бұрын
One of the things they sat in that interview is that Heiser claims only he came up with these ideas. Actually, Heiser states that everything he says is peer reviewed. He starts a lot of his lectures saying that.
@erehwhon
Ай бұрын
Glad to see this as I find it totally unacceptable that a person (Ms Virtue) makes public statements about someone (mostly ill-informed) and disables their KZitem comments. Heiser was VERY careful in how he expressed things and he made his Christian beliefs very clear and they are completely orthodox (Jesus as incarnated God, one person of triune God, resurrected from the dead, the only way to salvation and then by faith alone). Of course people are going to misuse what he wrote and there is always a danger in that (and I admit I also wondered about this at one stage) but that is no reason not to educate Christians in what the Scriptures actual say or might be alluding to. It seems to me that it is currently very popular to claim to be ex-New Age and somehow an expert on all things spiritual and somehow now an expert on what the Bible says about the spiritual realm. KZitem full of them and much of what is said is just drivel.
@mare_sheep9724
Ай бұрын
I wonder if Christians particularly in the US are so hypersensitive to everything because of our politically extreme polarized culture that this has now played into fearfulness of new(?) ideas/scholarship such as the DCWV. I did not listen to Doreen's video. As many others here I have such great respect for Dr. Heiser and his ideas/lectures/books have helped expand my understanding how greatly we have been delivered by Jesus, his death and resurrection. All glory to God!
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
Doreen's problem isn't that she's a Christian in the US. Her problem is that she's a Calvinist. Calvin executed people who disagreed with him, and 500 years later his followers are less violent but otherwise haven't changed their attitude.
@lali516
Ай бұрын
Glad it seems I wasn't the only one aggravated and bothered by the critique of Michael Heiser. In regards to Genesis 6, fallen angels, watchers and nephilim I used to close my bible in frustration as I had so many questions that no Pastor would answer in a way that actually made sense. Most would not even touch that subject with a 10 foot pole. It was Rob Skiba's book that finally answered so many questions for me and I had a deep fondness for him as his insights and knowledge helped me to understand scripture and so increased my love and amazement at the God that I serve. I can only presume that is what Dr. Heiser has done for so many as well. Dr. Heiser seemed to be a very humble man and I only wish all if the questions and criticisms brought against him would have been done while he was still alive. I am surprised that seeing the growing evil unraveling day by day in our world, they seem to dismiss what those like Dr. Heiser and Rob Skiba, in a sense taught us and warned us about.
@KenGi973
Ай бұрын
I like Doreen but she was wrong on this one. Saw that video and they said a lot of New Agers and charismatics use his teaching to back up their false beliefs. Even if that was true, he could not be held accountable. I thought his theology was solid. They had a lot of problems with him using extra Biblical sources. Even when you preach about the Bible, you have to study the lives of the people back then, guess where you get the sources? it's often times extra Biblical. Heiser took into account all of this. Doreen's video was unfair.
@litpath3633
Ай бұрын
I think Heiser addressed what Nunnally is saying in Genesis and Dueteronomy pretty well. Elohim is used to refer to basically any kind of spiritual being, but there is only one Most High and there is nothing equal to him or at the same level / "beside" him. Doesn't seem like Nunnally is making a very good case against what Heiser was saying IMO. There's a lot of language about the "hosts of heaven." We see a pretty complete picture of it in Job and even 1 Kings with Ahab. It's not polytheism, there is still only one Most High, yet there are clearly other spiritual beings in high places. Satan used to be a covering Cherub and such too. There's also the archangels and all sorts of angelic beings. It makes sense to me that they participate in what God is doing in both realms just like we participate. Hebrews 2 speaks of how mankind is a little lower than the angels. It builds a hierarchy from man, angels, to God as the Most High. Jesus was made lower than the angels for a time until he was raised in glory. Nunnally said it's some new thing he came up with and then talked about references to the idea in early church father writings. at 30 min in the video, he says the descendents of the Nephilim are referred to as "the greatest man" and that means he was not hybrid, but in the original genesis 6 it said there that they were "men of renowned" it's the same thing. He also tried to say they were like fallen angels or demons that couldn't die or something, but that isn't what the Nephilim are, they are real people that lived, but had a mixed ancestry of fallen angels. That's the real idea he doesn't like, that a fallen angel can mate with humans and produce offspring. Only part of the way through the video, but doesn't seem that strong of a case to me. I think it is a newer interpretation that Nunnally holds. Nunnally even said in the video that he hasn't read or listened to much Heiser said/wrote. Doesn't seem like he really understood what Heiser was saying
@Angel-cu5mf
Ай бұрын
Yeah I agree there were lots of errors in his argument. It seems like one should avoid criticizing another's work until you are at least familiar with it enough to do so competently.
@Shredhead
Ай бұрын
I found the Genesis 6 claims odd as well. The claim that it was followers of Yahweh mixing with pagan women is far off from someone who claims that "scripture interpret scripture". They even brought up Jude and its enoch quotation, but failed to see the context of verse 6 and 7 that clearly affirm the genesis 6 account of rebellious angels who went after strange flesh.
@Eloign
Ай бұрын
Doreen is a new believer she has no business even talking about this.
@ctac1847
Ай бұрын
Yes! I haven’t listened yet but am so glad to see this. The Doeen virtue podcast was full of untruths and unsubstantiated claims. Dr. Heiser was the first to say he wasnt saying anything new and clearly and completely substantiates all his teaching utilizing multiple sources with notations. His teaching is first class and as he encouraged, I researched many topics myself finding them to be the truth. Thank you! And now, I’ll listen to your response.
@audreyh8758
Ай бұрын
I am sorry but Doreen Virtue began acting like the Pharisees and the Sadducees. I quit listening to her and the people who appeared on her podcast. Jesus Christ told his own disciples to beware of the leavening of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@ctac1847. I would have to say you need to improve your research skills because Heiser has been found guilty of twisting and distorting Scripture all over the place, as well as committing many logical fallacies. Heiser's heresies don't have to be "new" for them to be still fallacious. That much should be obvious. God does not have or need a "divine council." He is God all by Himself and needs no "council." He did not give nations to this "council" to be ruled by them. All this is a distortion of the Bible by a supposed evangelical who was influenced heavily by his liberal graduate education. People need to wake up and see the trickery Heiser pulled on them.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@Ddd1-cx4ed What do you mean "any sources"? How about you read Psalm 82 in immediate context, and please tell me where in the Bible do we see ANY divine beings showing partiality to the wicked as it says in verse 2. And then tell me what the heck is Heiser talking about.
@Shredhead
Ай бұрын
@CRoadwarrior I'm not fully glued to divine council worldview, yet i don't see it as heretical either. But you do see an interesting instance in 1 kings 22:19-23. This definitely reads as God using a divine council. Even though God's outcome is already set, there is a discussion of who will enact His decree and how they will do it.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@@Shredhead Good for you that you are not glued to Heiser's "divine council" claims. You cannot take one, solitary instance that applied to THAT specific situation in 1 Kings 22, and apply it everywhere, without sound Biblical support for this to be done. Nowhere else do we see God doing what was done in that passage. We have no Biblical indication that that situation is to be applied to God as a whole in all instances. That is a Heiser invalid assumption.
@abidinginchrist3139
Ай бұрын
I object to Doreen’s accusation that dr Heiser claim he “discovered “ the Devine council and other info all on his own. I know that not true. I’ve listened to several of his talks and he has alway insisted that information has been known by academics forever.
@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity
Ай бұрын
I really disliked her saying it and knowing that absolutely can not be true. I have always loved her since she became a Christian and appreciate her sincerity and hard work and what all she gave up to be true to Jesus. but I now find the thought of her as a liar thoroughly... ? what? I keep fighting this not wanting this to be true about her.
@abidinginchrist3139
Ай бұрын
@@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity believers can get off track very easily. Coming from one extreme like, she did, its easy to go to the opposite extreme. We should keep her in our prayers.
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
I'm so glad you pointed out the fact that we are not "Heiserites" . I got the feeling that they put forth the idea that we idolize Dr. Heiser which I felt was a bit of an uninformed judgement call and ultimately just plain wrong.
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
Also she criticized Dr Heiser and his interest in fringe topics like aliens and Bigfoot, but lo and behold hernewest video has the word Atlantis in the title.
@d.torrent1822
Ай бұрын
I support Heiser 100% but there are Heiserite hats being sold. To be fair. I get it, though, its just a tribute to Heiser. I personally wouldn't wear one.
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
@@d.torrent1822 it's more a tongue and cheek thing
@1momsway
Ай бұрын
@@melissabunn7453- we should be cautious in doing this. From the outside, it looks a little culty. I think Dr. Heiser would prefer that his fans would be making the name of Jesus great, rather than his own name.
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
@@1momsway I am in total agreement with you.😊
@HickoryDickory86
Ай бұрын
While I love Doreen Virtue, she is a case study in why the Apostles forbade novices to become teachers/leaders (and yes, with her KZitem channel and despite her denials, she has taken unto herself the role of a teacher). Also, Michael Heiser's work further laid the groundwork for my becoming Eastern Orthodox. It is amazing how the dots he connected were practically unknown and alien to Western Christianity by this point in time, but were still well-known and maintained in the East. As a matter of fact, most of Heiser's scholarship can be traced one-to-one with something present and dogmatized (or at least maintained as little-t tradition) within Orthodox theology. Or better yet, Orthodox theology can correct, complete, and glorify Heiser's scholarship. Indeed, while the idea of the divine council had to be recovered in the West, it was never lost to the East, and it is the foundation upon which the theology of the Communion of the Saints is built. As St. Athanasius of Alexandria put it in his _On the Incarnation,_ "God became Man that man might become divine" (that is to say, the incarnation deified human nature upon Christ's victorious resurrection and ascension).
@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity
Ай бұрын
I am not Eastern Orthodox, I'm evangelical, but I deeply resent them calling the Eastern Orthodox (which is mine by virtue of physical DNA) deeply resent them calling the Eastern Orthodox church heretical. but that token Calvinism and predestination is way more "heretical". if one just reads the bible on their own, without the evangelical interpretations, so much of evangelical theology of today falls right apart.
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
When I told a Protestant Bible teacher about what I learned from Heiser, he had no idea what I was talking about and had put no thought into what those parts of scripture meant. When I told an Orthodox priest about what I learned from Heiser, he nodded and discussed it with me with certain church fathers taking a similar view and others taking a non-supernatural view. It was a stark difference and was a contributing factor in me becoming Orthodox myself.
@vicshannonfavorites
Ай бұрын
I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Heiser several years ago and he was a very humble and approachable man. I’ve read most of his books. Incredible Scholar and unfortunately when he passed away, a loss for us in this realm but a gain for the unseen realm. My view of Doreen Virtue after watching several of her videos in the past, is that she may mean well, but she’s, unfortunately, seems to be filtering her New Age ideas into the Biblical teachings. She made a lot of money as a New Ager and now she seems to be trying to do the same as a KZitemr. I don’t think she has really spent enough time as a Christian and Studying the Bible to be any type of authority to critique a scholar like Heiser. Personally, I think she should pause her KZitem channel and actually spend several years of study and actually understand what the Bible is saying and how Heiser is just revealing what the ancient scripture scholars understood. Unfortunately, I can’t listen to Doreen anymore.
@barbarabrooks4747
Ай бұрын
It's so sad Heiser died without writing more.
@sclubb-r5o
Ай бұрын
From Texas…….. I listened to about 20 min. Of the video you are referencing and immediately realized these people had not done their homework on their subject matter! They dismissed the work of Michael Heiser like a general run of the mill pastor would instead of doing the arduous work of an honest scholar! M.H. Warned us of the criticism he would receive from religious closed minded “scholars.” I dismiss them! M.H. Taught many of us Bible teachers without higher degrees how to research real questions even average Christians have been asking our pastors for years without getting answers, and we are thankful for his many years of hard work and his desire to teach the average starving Christian. We have access to real answers now!
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
@@sclubb-r5o Thank You, this was so we'll said
@paradisecityX0
Ай бұрын
Mike Heiser was the Hideo Kojima of biblical scholarship
@remnantreport8418
Ай бұрын
I doubt seriously I'm the only one who doesn't believe half the thing she says and I unsubscribed from her over this and I'm sure many others did too
@KenGi973
Ай бұрын
I remember Doreen from 4 years ago when she was viciously attacked by Joshua Chavez. Justin Peters and Chris Roseborough defended her. That was why she turned off her comment section. But now she's doing the same thing to someone who cannot defend himself. The least she could do is turn on the comment section for others to defend him. It's like peer review for KZitem.
@KjB-t3p
Ай бұрын
Michael Heiser cleared up so many things for me in the bible, that no other person or pastor could explain satisfactorily 💥💫🌼
@dondgc2298
Ай бұрын
Like almost every KZitemr who criticizes Dr. Heiser, she has commenting turned off on her video. Why are people who want to criticize him so afraid of having people comment on their statements?
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
Thank you so much for doing this video. I saw the video and felt that they have misrepresented Dr. Heiser.
@db198081
Ай бұрын
Not sure if anyone is aware, Dr. Heiser has several writings even up to his death that have never been published that he wrote up to and in his last days. Logos will be publishing this as a book sometime in 2025. Those who watched the latest from Logos on Dr. Heiser’s KZitem disclosed it there a couple of days ago in addition to a 51% discount on Logos.
@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity
Ай бұрын
Doreen is so paranoid of being misled yet again, that she is easy pray to be being misled AGAIN. wish she would use her own brain or at least not speak of Heiser and not give other's platforms to make up things about Heiser that he said that he didn't say. Doreen said Heiser said he discovered something new all by himself (2000 years after Jesus), and I listened and read Heiser extensively to be rather confident he never ever said that and everything else they criticised him for Heiser never said or specifically protested, explained in long papers that he never said. somehow Doreen at all against Heiser decided he advocated polytheism? where? and where are all the mythical people misled by Heiser's (wrongly imputed) polytheism? I still love Doreen, but with a salt shaker of salt she's been spiritually abused by spiritual charlatans her whole life, it is hard to extricate oneself from that. sadly, for her, it continues. including the Calvinism heresy. 😅😊😢❤
@svenknutsen8937
Ай бұрын
My impression of Doreen Virtue is that she's like a recovering alcoholic who can't be close to alcohol at all, to the point to that the alcoholic can't even see an empty wine bottle in a trash can without having some kind of anxiety attack. Virtue's attitude towards spiritual teachings seems to go along the same lines. As you and others have pointed out: She seems so terrified of being wrong and deceived (again) that every idea that's just a tad out of the "fundamentalist box" is branded as "heresy" and "demonic".
@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity
Ай бұрын
@@svenknutsen8937 you said it better then me 💯😁
@5thLegion
Ай бұрын
I was subscribed to her channel until her one sided video attacking Dr Heiser. She won’t allow comments for obvious reasons and her “scholars” hadn’t even read his work.
@TheLookingGlassAU
Ай бұрын
Out of all of the critics of Michael Heiser I have never heard one of them describe what he believes accurately. Maybe there may have been one, but only on one point (the Deuteronomy 32:8 textual criticism). But all others have misrepresented or just misunderstood him.
@loric69
Ай бұрын
@TheLookingGlassAU agreed. I think most critics watch part of a video and think they know the full message. The depth and breadth of Heiser's knowledge mean you have to watch several hours of his lectures to begin to get an understanding of his scholarship.
@melissabunn7453
Ай бұрын
@@TheLookingGlassAU That's probably because it would take a considerable amount of time to really look into his extensive body of work.
@roybatty2544
Ай бұрын
I consider Doreen's video nothing but lies and slander. Those in her video do not want to hear the Ancient Israelite World View. So they falsely accused him of everything heretical. I'm sticking with Dr Michael Heiser videos. His videos have given us a bigger better deeper understanding of God's Word as well as even more awe & reverence. I really wish I could find his lectures & lessons on DVD somewhere. Thank you.
@quinntemple5679
Ай бұрын
I'm so glad to see your post!! I saw that she made a video but couldn't handle watching all of it. I do appreciate a lot of what she does, but this was WAY off! Thank you!
@scubaoctopus
Ай бұрын
True !!!! I am so glad they responded to her!!
@RD-yj9zj
Ай бұрын
Did Doreen and guests do any research? They accuse him like hes in the Mormon camp. Watch Heisers video...Are you more willing to engage the bible than a moromon.... He explains how mormons use his material, but thru that took a mormon out for lunch and gave him the gospel. He told the mormon salvation is in Christ alone. Dorrens podcast was terrible. There were many other misqoutes and gaslighting. She should at the very least put out an apology for how they portrayed Heiser with mormonism
@elizabethfalls1138
Ай бұрын
She criticize him and don't allow anyone to comment on her video. Also AGTV put in on the streaming, I am very disappointed at AGTV
@svenknutsen8937
Ай бұрын
She never allows any comments on her videos.
@elizabethfalls1138
Ай бұрын
@@svenknutsen8937 that is very coward of her to do it, she is clearly saying that Heiser is a false teacher and don't allow anybody to defend him. She should at least add one person to that show to take his side. And if she wants to be so correct and follow the Bible she should not be teaching, once the Bible do not allow women to teach and that all she does on the internet.
@lolersauresrex8837
Ай бұрын
Heretic hunters are my least favorite Christians
@cometochristtoday
Ай бұрын
I found Doreens interviews kind of like a hit piece, that wasn't her intention, but they constantly digressed and lumped Heiser in with, as they said conspiracy theorists. It was painful to listen to.
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
Of course it was her intention. Don't be naive.
@Catachumen
Ай бұрын
The Trinity is found all over the Old and New Testaments.
@truthseeker5698
Ай бұрын
How many of Dr. Heiser critics are reformed / Calvinists?
@awesomefacepalm
Ай бұрын
@@truthseeker5698 at least three from what I know lol
@JasonJrake
Ай бұрын
@@truthseeker5698 most-to-all. And if their channels don’t allow comments, they are definitely “reformed.”
@SabreenWolf
Ай бұрын
Truthfully, in my humble opinion, she has done this as clickbait. Those who love Dr Michael Heiser and those who hate Dr Michael Heiser will both be clicking and sharing her video. There's no telling how many thousands of views she will receive as we share her video and comment on it. I for one have not seen her video, nor will I see her video. She will not receive a click from me at all, nor will I share her video with anyone.
@selahr.
Ай бұрын
The fact that she has comments turned off says to me she has no desire to be challenged or corrected. She seems content to find someone who claims to be an expert on a topic who supports her belief and then brings them on to prove she’s right, instead of listening to experts from multiple viewpoints on an issue and critically thinking through the issues herself.
@rK-em4yy
Ай бұрын
I understand Doreen's concerns. I only listened to a few short clips of Dr. Heiser... I got what I needed to know out of them but did not continue because my need is to know God more, not all the other stuff. The only way for me to know Him personally is through Jesus Christ by The Word of God. Of course there is so much knowledge out there.. But like everything else, God knows the reason He preserved for us the bible as we know it. Even the 4 gospels report that Jesus performed so many more miracles than what is recorded. Like everything else, God's way is best. I respected Dr. H., I didn't know Him personally neither can I say I know what He believed in His heart. What I now and then observe is that sometimes Christian academia loose their way a bit in the maze of pursuing head knowledge. I love Doreen as my fellow sister in CHRIST. I love all my brethren in Christ❤ Eccl 12:11-12 "The words of the wise are like goads, their collected sayings like firmly embedded nails-given by one shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body"
@db198081
Ай бұрын
@@rK-em4yy All the other stuff IS God. Understanding the Divine Council in relationship to God pouts to God as creator and governor of ALL things above and below. It supports his power and glory and in doing so teaches us humankind how to submit and have relationship with Him. It shows what right relationship with God is. That is a personal, interactive relationship. No it doesn’t retract, but draw us to His nature and his desire to have us back with him.
@rK-em4yy
Ай бұрын
@@db198081 I have listened to some short teachings of Dr. Heiser, I found them interesting.. But I didn't go further.. I didn't want to get lost in all the head knowledge.. That knowledge does not feed my spirit neither does it give life John 6:63 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you-they are full of the Spirit and life." As Paul says in 1 Tim 1:4-5 "nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work-which is by faith. The goal of our instruction is the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith." The Word of God is more than sufficient for me to learn more of God..... There's layer upon layer of pure gold..sometimes it takes me weeks just to try and absorb the wonder of God's wisdom in just one verse... As He tells us in Proverbs to ask for wisdom & understanding Prov 2:3-5, Eph 1:17-20 The only way we can bear fruit (of the Spirit is if we remain in the Word of God, in Jesus Christ. Eccl 12:11-12 "The words of the wise are like goads, and the anthologies of the masters are like firmly embedded nails driven by a single Shepherd. Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body." 1 Timothy 3:16-17 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work." John 17:17 "Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth." (This is the purpose of God's Word, we are not saved to remain as we are, but continue in sanctification that we may bear fruits (of the Spirit) Remember Jesus warned: 1 John 15:2-6 "He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned"
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@rK-em4yy. You make more sense than most posting here. It's not about Heiser or his false claims about an alleged "divine council." It's about the Triune God who is a "council" within Himself and needs no others, especially lesser, created and potentially flawed beings.
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarrior No. The whole "all I need is the Bible" thing does not make any sense at all. If that were true, there would only be 1 denomination on the planet. Instead, there are thousands with mutually incompatible interpretations of scripture, with all of them insisting the Holy Spirit led them to discern truth. The Bible itself has multiple warnings about believers being led astray. It says to lean not on your own understanding. It says the devil comes disguised as an angel of light. It says people will cry "Lord, Lord" and he will reply that he never knew them. It says to test everything against the deposit of faith handed down both by writing and speech. The warnings are all over scripture. People who say all they need is their personal relationship with Jesus are not paying attention to those warnings.
@n5cbi
Ай бұрын
I watched about 3/4 of Virtue's panel discussion and couldn't take anymore than that.
@audreyh8758
Ай бұрын
The so called scholar against Heiser seems to be a tad jealous of Heiser and the scholar wants to be at the level of Heiser.
@lali516
Ай бұрын
Yes, it really came across that way.
@d.torrent1822
Ай бұрын
He seemed so nervous speaking, and fumbling over his words. Honestly I stopped listening after he said the "let us" in Genesis 1:26 was a reference to the trinity. Seems he's highly selective about his sources and the sources he's using are outdated. I mean he refered to Bernard Ramm. I remember dispensationalists loved him when I fell in that camp a long time ago.
@svenknutsen8937
Ай бұрын
I've watched the Doreen Virtue-video from start to finish. IMHO they, specially Jordan Cooper, have some valid points worth discussing about Heiser's work, but the rest is mostly straw man arguments and their personal opinions about Dr Heiser's "fans and followers", these pesky "heiserites". Over all the people interveiwed by Virtue seem to have a problem with Heiser building a bridge between "liberal" schoolars and "conservative" schoolars. Personally I think that's a good thing and one of Heiser's strengths.
@johnnygenlock
Ай бұрын
Heiser held that the term Elohim is a statement of function. So it covers angels as well . . .
@jenniferroshto7377
Ай бұрын
Dr Heiser explained that the Hebrew word "Elohim" is much like the English words fish, sheep, deer or moose; the word doesn't change for singular or plural. It's really not that complicated the way Dr Heiser explains what the Bible says. If people find it too difficult to understand that there are lesser gods sitting on God's Council, either they don't believe God inspired the writers of the Scriptures to record the Truth for future generations, or they don't understand how powerful, wonderful, amazing and Holy God truly is. The lesser gods are ants compared to the One True God, but the little gods still exist, and God put them in their place when He recognized that they weren't using the authority they were given properly. At least that's my understanding, and I have Heiser's Unseen Realm and Reversing Hermon books. I also like his explanation of Holy, Holy, Holy." He said the Hebrew language has very descriptive words to describe and explain things, but the only way to express God's Holiness was to repeat it three times. I hope this helps and others here found Heiser connecting the dots as helpful as I have! I'm thankful to have discovered him and was very saddened when he passed.
@jenniferroshto7377
Ай бұрын
PS I have watched A lot of Torrents videos and think she is authentic in her beliefs, sorrow for leading others astray with her angel cards and books. I am not attacking her here. I hope she reads Heiser books and consider what he has to say. I was first drawn to him after I heard him tell about the Hebrew teacher (?) who told him to read the verse about God sitting among the Council of the gods. It blew my mind too! When I told my husband about it, he was mad too. We listened to more Heiser videos and I bought his books. He didn't lead me astray; I continue to read and reread my bible every year and listen to other bible pastors. Some I agree with every, some I'm not in agreement, but it's good to listen to other's and compare to our own understanding. The day I stop learning about God and the Scriptures will be the day I die. I'm far from perfect, worthy, or holy, but I've been a follower of Christ for 42 years and will continue. 😊
@jenniferroshto7377
Ай бұрын
**Doreen's videos not Torrents!**
@Zatoichi82
Ай бұрын
Thou shall not pissed against the wall. - Proverbs of Steven Slanderson
@arthur.prince
Ай бұрын
2:20:12 At around this time mark, you're talking about the word g-o-d and how English speakers struggle with immediately assigning a bunch of attributes to that word. You're right in saying it seems to be a cultural and multilingual problem. I'm a Ghanaian from the Ashanti tribe, the word "Nyame" is used for both God, as in Yahweh, and gods in African traditional religion. This seems to be what is going on in Hebrew and so I could immediately understand Heiser's point. We have unique words ourselves for the Most High God, like "Onyankopɔn" but the word "Nyame" is used much more to refer to Yahweh God than the word "Onyankopɔn". We deduce what a speaker means when they say "Nyame" from the context in both speech and situation. For eg, if we go to church the pastor can say "Su frɛ (freh) Nyame" which means "Cry out to God. But then the pastor can say that about traditionalists "Ɔmo (omo) su frɛ (freh) ɔmo Nyame" which means "They call on their god". Same word!! It is the context that tells us whether they mean Yahweh or the gods we are quite familiar with in this part of the world not the word. This issue seems to be a very American first world theological problem. I hope you see this.
@stormhawk31
Ай бұрын
OK, I watched a bit of Doreen Virtue's video, and here's what I see: They simply don't understand what Dr. Heiser was saying. Now, I'm not a blind Heiser fanboy. I like a lot of what he said, but I also disagree with him on certain points. But the fact is, Virtue and her guests were arguing against a straw man of what Heiser was saying. I didn't know whether or not it was an intentional straw man; it didn't seem that way, but I didn't know for sure. But the point is, Heiser was NOT arguing that there are multiple Gods. He specifically and repeatedly stressed that there is only ONE God, and that the Bible only presents one God. All he was saying is that there are other, powerful, CREATED spirit beings - call them angels or archangels if it makes you more comfortable - that God employs in the ruling of His universe. That's the Divine Council. He also said that God assigned the various nations to some of these beings after Babel, and that some of those assigned fell and accepted or demanded worship, which is where the "gods" of the nations came from. That's really the core of what Heiser said. He also subscribed to the CORRECT view of Genesis 6, which is the angel view, and saw the nephilim as a recurring problem in the early Old Testament, until the last of them were finally eliminated during the time of David - all of which is accurate and straight from the Bible. So, I would advise anyone who thinks they have a problem with what Heiser said to begin by actually understanding what Heiser said. He wasn't a polytheist, and he wasn't teaching anything that the Bible doesn't teach. He was just teaching things that today's CHURCHES don't often teach. And on that, I simply say, "If you don't like that, TOO BAD. Try teaching what the Bible actually says instead of what your denominations and creeds say."
@KenGi973
Ай бұрын
Yep, all Doreen had to do was read the first chapter of his book.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@stormhawk31. It's interesting that you say you are not a blind Heiser "fan boy," yet you argue just like one. It is a form of a straw man to argue that people simply don't understand Heiser, when they actually do. I've watched hours of Heiser's claims online, and I know what he teaches, and it's a form of polytheism, although he calls it a "divine council." If you have ONE God over other, real "gods," then you have some form of paganistic pantheon that is foreign to sound Biblical theology. Heiser distorted and ignored the immediate context of Psalm 82, which cannot be speaking of some "divine council" because we've never seen any such beings doing what verses 2-4 address (showing favoritism to the wicked humans is what wicked human judges/rulers have done). Heiser committed the collapsing context fallacy by assuming that Psalm 89 is speaking of the same thing, when contextually they're not. Psalm 82 is clearly speaking of earthly things, while Psalm 89 is speaking of things "in the heavens." But people blindly follow Heiser down his bad hermeneutical road, ignoring immediate context and all prior scholarship. Some people get their thrills by looking for anything that the "churches" have allegedly hid from people for centuries, as if that's even possible. Doing proper exegesis and sound hermeneutics doesn't matter anymore. Just give us the superficial thrills and chills of hidden wisdom from Heiser, regardless of all his Scripture twisting and logical fallacies.
@stormhawk31
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarrior First of all, you didn't know me from Adam, and you didn't know whether or not I've closely studied the Bible myself (I have), or what my hermeneutical position is, so don't come on here running your mouth like you do. Rudeness will get you slapped down, guaranteed. Secondly, simply agreeing with Heiser on a few points doesn't make me a fanboy of his. It's possible to agree with someone without blindly supporting everything they say. I already said that I disagree with Heiser on other points. But what he says on the specific points I mentioned is correct. Seems to me that YOU are more of a blind fanboy of whatever it is that you believe, since you're unable to consider than anything other than that might be correct. The fact is, anyone who thinks that Heiser is arguing for some kind of paganism doesn't understand Heiser, nor do they understand paganism. And, for that matter, they've also either ignored or failed to understand all the passages in the Bible where it refers to God as the "God of gods", or asks things like, "Who is like you among the gods?". They also haven't bothered to look at passages like Deuteronomy 2:43 in the Greek Septuagint, and they've ignored all of Daniel 10, as well as a whole bunch of other passages in the Old Testament, not to mention Paul's warning in Ephesians 6:12, among other places. Yes, that means YOU. The fact is, all Heiser did was point out what the Bible actually says, without running like a coward from it. Part of proper hermeneutics is understanding how the original audience would have understood the text, and Heiser simply points out things that have been ignored until now, but are PLAINLY on the page. It's not some "secret gnostic knowledge", it's plain as day to anyone who just reads the Bible. So take your criticism of me and Heiser and cram it. DEEP.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@@stormhawk31 I may not know you from "Adam," but I do know flawed theology when I see it, whether from Heiser or those supporting him. Don't come at me with nonsense about alleged rudeness, because then you might get slapped down yourself when I challenge you to prove your claim and define the word, and how it allegedly applies to me. So you need to step back, take a breath, and relax. Secondly, I never claimed that because you agree with Heiser on some points that this means you're a "fanboy." So don't throw straw at me. And no, the specific points you agree with Heiser on that you mentioned are NOT correct. They are clearly incorrect, and the fact that you can't see that speaks volumes to your inability to discern Biblical truth from error. Whether you or any other Heiser fan will admit it or not, Heiser did bring a form of paganism into his theology, and even admits how he used pagan ANE literature to "interpret" Scripture, which the Bible nowhere says to do. Heiser would have been better served to consult the actual writer of Scripture, the Holy Spirit, before coming up with his aberrant theories. Third, neither I nor all the scholars prior to Heiser that disagree with his fallacious claims have ignored anything, or did not understand the passages. That is an arrogant and foolish claim. No, we do understand and have learned proper exegesis and hermeneutics, so that we can discern Heiser's errors. Those who do not know how to do these things have a discernment problem, and are simply blind but think they see. And even worse, people are not willing to take correction or learn anything because they either think they know it all, or they fallaciously think Heiser could do no wrong. Well, he has done wrong, and many more besides myself and Mr. Henning are exposing this truth. You want to talk all this smack, and yet you can't even get your Bible references right. There is no "Deuteronomy 2:43." But we all can make simple mistakes like that, but you were so sure you were correct you didn't even bother to edit and correct your own mistake. Finally, no, Heiser did not just point out what the Bible "actually says." That's HIS line that he uses, and apparently you've bought into that line. Heiser does eisegesis, which means reading INTO the text what's not there. Seeing a "divine council" practically everywhere, even in Genesis 1:26, is simply eisegetical foolishness. It is NOT teaching what the Bible "actually says," because the text in Hebrew (which I can speak and read) simply does not say God was speaking TO anyone other than Himself. The idea that God in Genesis 1:26 is speaking TO the angels or anyone else is NOT "PLAINLY on the page." Heiser did eisegesis to arrive at that fallacious conclusion. But seems you missed that. So, I stand by my criticism of both you and Heiser. And what you need to do is study DEEP instead of throwing all this facile nonsense at me. I've been saved over 30 years, I've studied Hebrew and Greek at the graduate level, and I've taught both languages, and teach both on my channel. And you? So I do know what I'm talking about from years of study, not only of English translations, but also of the original languages. Heiser was wrong on many things, especially how he twisted Psalm 82, 89, Deut. 32 and other passages. If you don't realize that, then your understanding of Scripture is superficial at best.
@stormhawk31
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarrior 1. I am responding on a phone, not on a keyboard. I meant to write Deuteronomy 32:43, but it only picked up the 2 and missed the 3. I didn't see the error, so that's my fault. But my statement about that passage still stands. 2. I actually AGREE with you about Genesis 1:26. I didn't think God was speaking to the other spirit beings there, because he says, "Let us make man in OUR image", and man isn't made in the image of the "angels". As I said, I don't agree with every word that proceeds from the mouth of Heiser, nor am I some kind of blind supporter of his. There are several areas in which I disagreed with him, another of which being his eschatological stance. I even got into a bit of a dispute with him right here on KZitem when I first discovered his work because I thought he was saying exactly what you people think he's saying. But, again, he was RIGHT in the specific areas I mentioned. God DID create phenomenally powerful beings - like I said, you can call them archangels if that makes you more comfortable, though "Angel" is an ontological description, not a teleological one - and God DID turn the nations over to the "care and feeding" of these beings after Babel. We see that all over the Bible. 3. The "Angel" view of Genesis 6 is the correct view. The "godly line of Seth" view is utter crap that has ZERO scriptural support. If you TRULY read and understand Hebrew, you'd know that as well. The angel view was the view of the Jews going all the way back, it was the view of the early church, and it didn't begin to change until Origen and, later, Augustine. The text of Genesis 6 does not allow for any other view aside from the angel view, and the rest of the Bible backs up that view. It might be uncomfortable, but it's TRUE. So, I stand by what I said. I am not some blind supporter of Heiser, but I do agree with him on the very specific areas I mentioned. He is NOT saying that there is a pantheon of YHWHs, which is what pantheism would entail. He very SPECIFICALLY says that over and over and over again, and the Bible belabors that point as well. God is ABSOLUTELY unique. There is NOTHING like him in all of existence; not even close. The distance between God and even the most powerful of these spiritual beings is infinitely greater than the distance between these beings and an amoeba. Nevertheless, these beings - these "Princes", if you will - DO exist, they DO form some kind of "divine council", and most of them, it seems, have fallen. They are the "rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers over this present darkness, and spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places" against which we are at war; and the "elemental spirits" to which people were once enslaved. Again, these things are crystal clear in the Bible, to anyone who simply reads it. It's sad that people who claim to be part of a faith that contains supernatural elements from beginning to end, are so often near-materialists when it comes to the supernatural elements in the Bible. I meet SO many putative Christians who believe in God, believe the miracles of Jesus because they HAVE to, BARELY believe that Satan exists, and give almost no thought to angels or anything else in the Bible beyond that. The materialism of the modern world has all but completely infected their faith, and they have been nearly blinded by it. But the Bible is NOT a materialist book! Whatever the "spirit realm" is, it is chock FULL of spirit beings that are ALL created by God to perform various functions within His cosmic design. You CANNOT read the Bible and come away thinking that there's only God and MAYBE the Devil and a few demons, and that's it. If that is what you think, you have missed a large portion of what the Bible actually says. But if you take what the Bible says seriously, you're unavoidably going to come away understanding that the "spirit realm" is filled with MANY different kinds of beings, of various levels of power and authority, who perform different tasks, some portion of whom have fallen (though they still serve the purposes of God, whether they want to or not). If you don't believe that, you don't believe the Bible. And if you didn't believe the Word of God, how can you even call yourself a Christian? The essence of Christian faith is believing and trusting God, who does not and CANNOT lie. So, THAT is Heiser's point. He's simply saying that, at the highest level of power and authority among these spirit beings, there are some who were assigned to various nations, rebelled against God, and accepted or demanded worship from the people over which they were assigned. These beings are where the "gods" of the nations come from. They aren't gods in the sense that YHWH is God, they're pretenders to the title. Nevertheless, they DO exist, and the Bible makes that very clear. Paul even specifically says that people sacrificing to idols are sacrificing to demons. As far as Heiser's argument about demons being the disembodied spirits of the nephilim, I tend to think that's correct, but I'm not 100% sold on it. I didn't think there's any way to know for sure this side of Heaven, simply because the Bible doesn't specifically say that. Given what the Bible does say, I think it's a reasonable possibility, but I'm not dogmatic about it. So anyway, if you don't understand these simple FACTS, you DON'T understand what Heiser was saying, and it would behoove you not to criticize before understanding. I made that mistake at first, and it turned out I was wrong, and I had to apologize to him. He WASN'T a polytheist at all, nor did he teach polytheism. And, by the way, using extra-biblical material to better understand the meaning of the text is NOT out of court. There are many words, phrases, and idioms in the Bible that we wouldn't understand if we didn't also have other materials written in the same languages - Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, and Koine Greek for the New Testament. It's also not out of court to look at what the historical writings of the time say, or what the Jews themselves thought about what their scriptures meant. None of these things are inspired, of course; EVERYONE knows that. But they're HANDY, just as commentaries and such are handy, and there's nothing wrong with using them.
@JBly4
Ай бұрын
Im not sure what you guys were listening to. Ive heard Michael Heiser out of his own mouth say things a lot of people here say he never believed. Critics of Heiser have been around for a long time.
@thepeacefulway8148
Ай бұрын
@JBly4 like what? People get hung up on Heiser refuting (correctly I might add) that "let us make man in our image" is a reference to the trinity, which is has never been demonstrated to be true, it's just a post hoc explanation. And often that post hoc explanation comes from people's own insecurity that the Bible could be referring to other "gods".
@JBly4
Ай бұрын
@@thepeacefulway8148 The divine council ideas are riddled throughout ancient pagan religions. I might suggest you read some origin stories for ancient Canaanites, perhaps the story of Baal. You will see the divine council there taking credit for all the things God does. Including creation. Heiser has always relied too much on extra biblical commentaries. For that matter just relate his divine council theory to mormonism. It's pagan through and through. Your opinion that he correctly refutes the idea of the Trinity in that verse is just that, your opinion. Orthodox Jews themselves claim it is simply modesty on God's part in including angels or is meaning God and the earth will create with all God's attributes, man. I don't agree with that either but it also refutes Heiser. His view is not shared by most scholars of all persuasions. And assuming people are just insecure because they disagree with you is not a good starting point for truth...but that's just my opinion. Good luck.
@thepeacefulway8148
Ай бұрын
@JBly4 very odd for you to reference the Baal Cycle, which I have actually read (as well as the Enuma Elish, epic of gilgamesh etc which was very contemporanious with Yahwehism) as an argument against the DCW. It is not "too heavily relying on extra biblical texts" to simply compare the biblical account with the other accounts and notice the obvious overlap (there is almost no disagreement among scholars here). The ancient Jewish texts do not exist in a vacuum, and approaching the Bible through your tradition (post hoc) is not even approaching a serious critique. And let me double and triple down on the point about insecurity because it needs to be said. It is revealing that many people don't want to deal with the text on its own terms, in its own cultural context, because it may challenge traditional presuppisitions about certain doctrines and dogmas, especially where they have used scriptures to proof text certain views but when they are disabused of those notions they immediately assume it must by necessity be polytheism or some other non christian novel concept.
@JBly4
Ай бұрын
@@thepeacefulway8148 LOL Ok buddy. It's too heavily relying on non biblical texts when you choose to assume the accuracy of all these texts as opposed to the understanding it's the same lie told over and over again by the father of lies all the way up to modern day latter saints. That's your choice. My tradition is not that of an Orthodox Jew who disagrees with DCW. But they, and many other traditions, still disagree with it. Not sure why you assume to know my tradition... Regardless it sounds like you are very emotional about this ("needs to be said"). Actually it doesn't. You are just creating an excuse to dismiss critics. I'm not interested in arguing with you. Have a good one.
@denisemiller7891
Ай бұрын
Thank you Carrie for your input. You voiced exactly what I was think ing. I appreciate you all for your response to Doreen's video. She apparently did not read or understand Dr. Heiser's work.
@timothydobbins9947
7 күн бұрын
Thanks for your great work, Rob. And to those who join you. Important today and even more important tomorrow.
@mitch6352
Ай бұрын
While I can appreciate calling out false teachers, goof balls etc........Lets be clear ... that's not what this is. This seems to be unbiblical slander. There are plenty of "real" wolves that she could go after, but no lets jab at a well respected (AWESOME) scholar. smh
@s.hicks7213
Ай бұрын
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. I won’t be able to watch all of it till later-with that being said; it was heartbreaking that now that he’s gone, he’s being made into a dangerous man that should be marked and avoided. Why didn’t she bring this to his attention while he was alive, bc he would have gladly discussed these things with DV to clear things up…but he’s not. She said that she went to him while at the conference to tell him she couldn’t be involved, and he was gracious to her and understanding. She then had a lot of time to confront him up until his death, but she didn’t. Why? Christ Jesus saves us at many, many, many different people at many, many, many different backgrounds and points in their life. You cannot put Him in the tiny box that he saved you from. You are denying His tremendous power, love, and grace. Why aren’t we focusing on the fact that him being a good berrean and bringing Glory to the Most High by bringing many, MANY younger atheists to the faith through his work by answering questions that they may have had that traditional fundamentalist cessationist churches refusing to answer or even touch. This created a huge rift with younger generations; some raised in the church some that were not but grew up in the secular world and avoided the church like a plague because unlike older generations that did not grow up in the internet age, or at a time when we had mass information at the power of our hand ie: the smart phone. Church attendance began to rapidly decline for decades. They refused to discuss the unseen realm. But make no mistake, this is the battle we’re up against my dear brothers and sisters, and it has much more influence on us than many traditionalist like to admit. She said that she’s noticed a cult following, but how so? Where are these MH cults? To me it’s engaging in unnecessary discourse; becoming dangerously close to slanderous accusations about a brother in Christ Jesus who can no longer defend himself. It’s unnecessary and disrespectful. A person has to be physically present so that they can be called out. He can no longer be, so we should be silent. We’re supposed to be Christians who do not do such things to one another or even to the world when the person is not able to defend themselves. Period. DV says she was deceived for the majority of her life-she published many books, angel cards etc. which makes it a righteous act to push back and stop others from going down the same path in following her work that she became financially successful from. But can someone go too far, by boarding the lines of heresy hunting our brothers and sisters who love our Lord with all of their hearts and minds? I think so. I definitely, very much think so. But what do also know for certain, is that I’m just a worm. And we have much bigger issues coming to the West and all over the world in these end times that we should be strengthening what is left instead of extreme heresy hunting, and make no mistake-will be held to an account for every word said for and against someone. When you cannot be certain, it’s best to be silent on a matter.
@lt7378
Ай бұрын
The problem with Heiser types is they make this divine council their main focus- instead of loving God with all their heart and with all their soul and all their mind. Too many are just caught up in this supernatural stuff. It’s obvious we live in a supernatural world and Scripture is a supernatural book. Mankind fell in Genesis 3 and we fell with Adam. Hence, the “keys of the planet” were handed to Satan and the fallen angels. (“And the devil took him (Jesus) up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will .” Luke 4:5-7)However, God promised and provided a Savior who assumed human flesh to redeem humanity. Thru His substitutionary death, Jesus “disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.” Col. 2:15 I don’t think what Heiser should be dismissed, as I never thought what he said was so original because when I read the Bible even as a teen, it’s pretty clear the pagan world were ruled by false deities. I just think the focus should be on the Lord Jesus Christ and to live lives of repentance, humility and glory to God. Just to be clear, I agree a lot with Heiser and I was the only one in my Sunday school class who brought up Heiser when we got to certain passages in the Bible telling them to read his books. The teacher thought I was crazy.
@KenGi973
Ай бұрын
No, you're wrong. He never made the divine council his main focus. He clearly stated the Gospel many times in his book. Doreen's video made the same accusation. How can she prove that he was "caught up in supernatural stuff"? He wrote about what he discovered while in full view of the Gospel and Jesus's mission. Did she know how he worshipped? his prayer life? his Christian walk? She didn't know any of that. What he wrote about "the 2 powers in heaven" in Judaism in the intertestamental period was gold. It strengthened my faith, added more rocks to my foundation.
@lt7378
Ай бұрын
Yes, this was Michael Heiser’s speciality field of study so this divine council is his premier focus. Because, like you, his view strengthened my faith and made more sense of this world and history . The extrabiblical accounts helped me too. If you notice, I said the “Michael Heiser types”. These are those individuals who seem to ONLY focus on this one aspect, and it is to that point what I have issues with. It’s certainly not Heiser’s fault they make it their major focus without the rest of Scripture and God’s plan of redemption thru Jesus Christ promised since Genesis 3:15 as the “Seed of the woman”. We are in spiritual warfare , and I appreciate Heiser’s insights with academic citing. I’m certainly not speaking personally against Mr. Heiser’s faith and practice. Also, I was wondering what is your view of Gary Wayne and his books on “The Genesis 6 Conspiracy”? I’m new to this channel so I apologize if you’ve addressed Mr. Wayne’s books already? I just haven’t had time to peruse your videos yet.
@thepeacefulway8148
Ай бұрын
Not sure I totally agree. But I do find many of the people who adhere to the DCW to a degree I don't think Heiser himself ever advocated. With the kind of content he made, it's almost impossible for a certain subsect of the people not to stretch the ideas beyond credulity. But Heiser himself and his actual teachings are rock solid IMO.
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
Maybe study of God's divine council is the manner in which they love God with all their mind. Who are you to judge that as a problem?
@lt7378
Ай бұрын
@@patrickbarnes9874 It misses the most important message of the Bible. I’ve read through the Bible yearly for the past 30+ years. It seems in these times of “safe spaces”, one can’t even state an observation without the worn out ad nauseum line, “who are you to judge?” I even mentioned here I sided/defended Michael Heiser’s DVC worldview to the consernation of my church and was ridiculed. Like I stated above, I respect Dr. Heiser’s work/ministry, etc. And I still get attacked here. Grow up and do some reflection on what Christianity really is about. (I believe Dr. Heiser did). This could involve your eternal destiny.
@robertlee8519
Ай бұрын
You should have made a joke about authorship of Hebrews, since Heiser joked about it all the time lol
@d.torrent1822
Ай бұрын
I love the idea of Priscilla writing Hebrews lol
@d.torrent1822
Ай бұрын
Wave Nunally had way too much coffee.
@LouisaWatt
11 күн бұрын
No one gets bent out of shape when we call the Holy Spirit… a spirit. But for some reason people lose their freaking minds when the word elohim is used to refer to more than Yahweh.
@pistisproductions77
Ай бұрын
Thanks Rob 🤜🤛. Stanhope's video intro, you couldn't choose any better.
@stephencornell497
Ай бұрын
Appreciate the dialogue! Obviously, and unfortunately, Noreen is missing Heiser's point in order to service her mission on YT-bashing heretics and making YT safe for folks...
@bordercollieenthusiast3159
Ай бұрын
Rob you have a great deal of knowledge and I so wish that I could share this with friends bui I know most would not listen to this conversation as they do not have the time or inclination to go down the rabbit holes that you tend to go when rambling. Wish you could work on distilling your thoughts into succinct points and then present them. You could have so much more impact on the wider body of Christ if you did so. I know that this is not your way of doing things but if you are a listener with limited time, you will not have the patience to listen to your comments. There are so many people in the reformed camp, who say similar things as what Doreen's guest scholar say, that it might be a surprise to you. Wish you could harness that knowledge and like Mike Heiser did and bring it out in a clear succinct way that stays on topic. Having said that I enjoyed listening and got much from it but It is not something that i can share with most of my reformed friends. Please do think about this suggestion as you have the intellectual horse power to do a good job but you ramble far too much for most people to follow.
@LauralovesJesus1
Ай бұрын
@@bordercollieenthusiast3159 I concur with what you are saying. It was hard for me to follow along. I skipped thru much of it so I’m sure I missed out on important details.
@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity
Ай бұрын
wow, I completely agree with what you're saying here.
@patrickbarnes9874
Ай бұрын
When the video hit the 30 minute mark and he was still giving his introduction with no end in sight, I stopped it. Make notes and stick to them would be my suggestion. Not meaning any insult, just constructive criticism.
@Israelraj
Ай бұрын
I'm sorry and not to brag, as a guy literally living in the Ancient in the current day in India, when I started my quest for God sometime in 2008, I saw and immediately made the connection and let out a Big AHA when I read Genesis 6. whe I first heard Hieser in 2019, I thanked God for affirming what I always knew. We Indians are literally Living In Ancient Cannan! And what really touched me the most was Dr Hieser's explanation of the Goat to Azazel and how outside the camp was the Demonic, also how this can be attributed to the Church and how it meant outside the Church was the Demonic (Paul says to the elders of Corinth to give him to Satan by ostracising from the Church). I honestly heard the entire video to wait for one Good point that they could make to Refute Hieser... They had none. My love to Doreen, but you are doing a disservice to Many. And please turn your comment section back on if you truly want to seek the truth.
@PatrickBandy
Ай бұрын
wow opening up with some hardstyle on the apologetics podcast never thought I'd experience this.
@awesomefacepalm
Ай бұрын
Tyler Vela critiquing Heiser lol Like we should listen to Vela, we know where his theology led him
@Angel-cu5mf
Ай бұрын
where?
@awesomefacepalm
Ай бұрын
@@Angel-cu5mf out of Christianity He calls himself a non Christian theist
@slippery_slobber
Ай бұрын
I saw that interview. They misrepresented MH big time.
@rvacandles1871
Ай бұрын
😅yeah I feel like she is flaky and I don’t give her opinions any credit, what will she believe in next.
@elizabethfalls1138
Ай бұрын
Doreen has been teaching on the Internet, she should not been doing that as the Bible is against women teaching
@azwarriorm2617
Ай бұрын
@@elizabethfalls1138… where is your evidence ? Show in scripture
@colorsflight6432
23 күн бұрын
you just can't teach in Church over a congregation. The idea that women can't ever speak on the Bible in any context to an audience is ridiculous and not something Jesus would condone. Believers in Christ make or female can be dumb and teach stupid stuff.
@DougOvermyer
Ай бұрын
Bruh. This is awesome. Well done.
@EnHacore1
Ай бұрын
Great video defending Dr Heiser's positions, would love to hear more videos related to the topics covered by Dr Heiser.
@johnhaselton3019
29 күн бұрын
I wish we could spend more time fighting for the cause of Jesus than tearing each other up. Heiser and Virtue have a judge and it isn't any of us. Peace and blessings jmh
@Izzycentric
16 күн бұрын
It would be great if Doreen left her comments on.
@nightrider963
Ай бұрын
Very interesting how they wait to critique MH AFTER his death when he cannot respond, her name is literally “virtue” yet she has none in this matter. LOL They had EVERY OPPORTUNITY to criticize, critique, and debate him when he was here, I would be very careful in doing this, one day we all have to give account.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
Get some facts and stop speculating. Heath Henning, who wrote the book ""The UnBiblical Realm: Refuting the Divine Council of Michael Heiser's Deuteronomy 32 Worldview," corresponded with Heiser BEFORE he passed, and has extensively quoted Heiser in his book, demonstrating in detail just how fallacious Heiser was both Biblically and logically. People really need to stop blindly following Heiser as if he was the greatest scholar since FF Bruce or Gleason Archer, which he certainly was not. Since I have my own level of scholarship and can read and write in both Biblical Hebrew and Greek, I have the necessary educational background to make such claims.
@nightrider963
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarrior You’re not the only person with a level of scholarship.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@@nightrider963 I never said I was. The point is, I'm not some English Bible only reading person who knows little about how to accurately interpret Scripture.
@ElenaLearningForeverToInfinity
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarriorlol, you really need to stop blindly following yourself. you have no idea how pompous and vainglorious you come across. Heiser was gracious and humble.
@mosheyriver7249
Ай бұрын
Why didn't they challenge this while he was alive? Doreen should have told Michael to his face that he is a heretic since they spoke face to face for the Fringe POP show.
@hannahbarbera7138
Ай бұрын
@@mosheyriver7249 she said she did.
@rubiesmilo7128
Ай бұрын
I think that Doreen has made quite a name for herself. She however is not a scholar of the scriptures. I would think that she would have enough respect for the dear Doctor that she would leave alone. It is not good that she tear down the work of another who has been so humble and faithful to the Lord, bringing many to the faith. This does no good and quite frankly can be used by Satan to lie, confuse and divide. Perhaps she should think on about stopping her KZitem account, especially if it is being used as a source of income, to seek the Lord and not be a stumbling block.
@geoffmckenzie2608
13 күн бұрын
53 minutes in and you FINALLY got to the video? Lol😂 I have you on 1.25, and I keep holding on 2xx, and then suddenly you're playing the video at 1.5 speed. Glad I have my aural receptors turned up to high speed. 😅 I am actually interested, but this was a painfully slow start.
@colorsflight6432
23 күн бұрын
I think the reason the Hebrew word for God, spiritual beings ect holds behind it the concept that that God is a one God but three persons. Which naturally is a hard concept to grasp. I also think the reason they called Jesus "the Angel of the Lord" was bc it was him in his glorified body like Angels have and so they are basically saying the glorified body of the Lord bc that's how they would have grasped that. Maybe since he still has wounds he looks frightening and that's why they were so terrified sometimes. Now I could be totally wrong about that I certainly am no authority but me as a lay person new Christian that's what my mind came up with on my own just from reading the Bible.
@danvan2683
8 күн бұрын
It's interesting that I can comment here and contribute my thoughts but their video has disabled the ability to comment, probably a good idea, it's a closed minded ideology as well.
@gregorytoews8316
Ай бұрын
You had me until 6:40 - evolution. To me the notion of evolution (as someone like Dawkins might understand it), is wildly inconsistent with the nature and character of the God of the bible, and with how I understand His purposes regarding the universe. Btw, I don't lean toward a young universe. I shouldn't have to add this disclaimer, but some would extrapolate from my first remark that I'd favour a young earth view. I see no basis for such an extrapolation.
@quakers200
Ай бұрын
He needs to change what he has been smoking.
@KenGi973
Ай бұрын
Wow, Doreen has gone off the reservation, attacking Dr Heiser again in a new video accusing him of being a polytheist. Does she know how to read?
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@KenGi973. Hey, check yourself because unlike most on this forum, Doreen has a Masters degree in Biblical and Theological studies. And you?
@brianbriggs2183
Ай бұрын
The Bugera sounded best to me.
@CC_70
Ай бұрын
The Bible is not strictly monotheistic; it's monolatrist.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
And that lie you got from Heiser, not the Bible.
@CC_70
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarrior Lol, you funny.
@CRoadwarrior
Ай бұрын
@@CC_70 I'm not joking. What is the meaning of the Shema? Deut. 6:4? It's not monolatrist.
@CC_70
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarrior You don't create theology from one verse, my guy. Even Yeshua and Paul acknowledge the existence of other Gods. Yeshua in John 10:34-35 and Paul in 1 Cor 8:4-6 (the "so-called" phrase in verse 5 is not in the underling Greek text). There are plenty of other of verses that acknowledge the existence of other gods, legit gods. The Shema doesn't deny the existence of other gods either. It clearly acknowledge the existence of other gods. The point of the Shema is that Yehovah is the God of Israel; it doesn't deny the existence of other gods. All the other gods derive their divine authority from him. He is the one true God (meaning that he is the fount of all authority), and all the other gods are subordinate to Him and are commissioned to rule the nations until the end of this age. The term "god" is simply a divine title and can apply to both men and spirits (i.e. angels) In other words, Yehovah is both Creator and the Boss of bosses so to speak; that's why He is called the God of gods (obviously, the implication of that title implies the existence of other gods). It's not that difficult, my friend.
@CC_70
Ай бұрын
@@CRoadwarrior The Shema doesn't deny the existence of other gods. It states explicitly that Yahovah is the only god of Israel and that they should only worship and be devoted to Him alone. It doesn't deny the existence of other gods. That's called monolatry, not monotheism. There's a reason Yehovah is called God of gods and the Most High God. Because other gods exist.
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