I think this is one thing all the people want to believe could be realized in some way in the near future, sadly if in some way it would possible to be done and be mass produced, then nobody will pay attention to it. I think of television and many other things. My kudos to the braves who break the boundaries of his challenges, but hey the limitations needs to be demonstrated to see if someone come with a new idea. Great work, this series is revealing
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I love to make these experiments because it reveals so much about these units and about how they work. And what you said is exactly true! If something is feasible even just to a small extent, it would be mass produced. This device (Peltier coolers) have its own limitations, and this is why it has no place in air conditioning or similar tasks.
@BestMentalism
2 жыл бұрын
in this experiment you imagine putting the peltier outside and cooling the inside through the water piping, would the efficiency change if you reversed it to put the peltier inside and pushing the heat outside through the water piping ? measuring the difference might be interesting. Also could we take advantage of the big radiators that are already in your home, plugging the inside unit onto them and using a big fan that blows on them might be more efficient that using the small ones.
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
I have videos on the mentioned arrangement, check my channel. Peltier is inefficient either way. Also, Peltiers are not powerful enough (you would need plenty of them) to create a noticeable temperature difference on such a huge body. Also, it is kind of illegal (and dangerous) to modify the radiators since they are part of the district heating system. At least where I live.
@MOTOJAM24
Жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist hello sir, i just want to ask a question just to clear my mind, example i have 6 peltier unit with 6A each, does it means i need 36A of power supply or i just need a 6A supply? Pls let me understand thank you
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
@@MOTOJAM24 Hi! Why do you ask a totally irrelevant question under someone else's comment? Look up my videos I have a video exactly on this topic. It is about the serial and parallel connection of Peltier coolers.
@robert5
Жыл бұрын
Hay Curious Scientist, does it make much difference that your dumping the hot side hot air into the same room your trying to cool? I am wondering about building a 20 amp solar powered version with around 30 to 40 peltier coolers with both sides using copper water heat exchangers to remove heat from one side and cooler water from the other. In the summer I could use cold ground water to cool the hot side and a radiator to pump the cool water through with a fan. Since this is solar powered it would pretty much be a summer cooling system not a winter heating system. I am still interested in trying a full 20 amp version though. I do realize that those 20 amps could be applied to a regular air conditioner and it would probably work as good or better. I also realize if I got 48 degree ground water i can just pump that through a radiator and cool with that. Still want to try it though.
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
Hi! No, it does not matter from the experiment's perspective. Of course, in a real situation, you would separate these two, but here I was not measuring the effect on the room temperature. I just measured the effect on the outlet air temperature.
@PeterMilanovski
Ай бұрын
I think that you should try it! Sounds like a good idea and could be some fun working it all out and putting it together! There's no greater satisfaction than when you put something together and see it working! The one thing that I took away from this video and the other video where he performed the same experiment but with only one Peltier device is that with the one Peltier device he achieved a 4°c temperature difference in relation to the room temperature and in this experiment he got an 8°c temperature difference but using 6 Peltier devices.... Something definitely tells me that the temperature difference should have been greater and I suspect that the problem lies in the cooling blocks! The hot side has water from the radiator going in one cooling block, then into the other and this means that the second cooling block is getting it's water pre warmed! I would personally go with the single water cooling blocks, the cold side water should be running in series while the hot side water should be fed in parallel to the water blocks! Using single Peltier water blocks ads complexity but the efficiency goes up! Also from my experience with radiators, you definitely need a much larger radiator on the hot side, in your case, using ground water mitigates the need for a radiator anyway, so that's not a big problem for you! But I would definitely try it! If the system is well designed, you should be seeing more than 8°c temperature difference and that might just be enough to get you the cooling you need! If not, then at that point you should know if you are going to need a few more Peltiers or a lot more! I would love to know if you have done anything with this idea 💡...
@crispyjello7564
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been wondering if this was possible, thanks for thoroughly explaining it! Wish it was more efficient :/
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
You're welcome! I am glad that it was useful.
@enzotrevisol6362
9 ай бұрын
Hi, I'm thinking of an AC for my car using peltiers, do you think is worth it projecting and making these scheme, using a radiator and watercooling the peltiers? I know a car with AC is more efficient but I don't have enougth money right now😅
@CuriousScientist
9 ай бұрын
Hi! You would waste a lot of time and money on trying to reproduce the same cooling performance as the car's AC. It isn't worth it, Peltiers are inefficient.
@forexbyteemy
11 ай бұрын
Thanks, quite insightful. Could using a humidifier help with cooling the peltiers for cheaper
@CuriousScientist
11 ай бұрын
It would not make significant difference.
@aboutfoss
3 жыл бұрын
I think power consumption will increase, but not double. There are more "instances" of each cooling stage and each stage will do less work. I agree it's not as economical as a coolant-based AC... An application this may work for is providing cool air at the bottom of an enclosed server rack, which can be pulled up towards by server fans. A radiator such as the one in your second heat dissipation video would sit at the bottom of a rack where the cold air would "pool."
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
Yes, maybe it would not double. But I am not sure how the temperature drops between each stages so it was easier and safer to assume at least that it will double. The problem is that these things consume so much power that you don't really want to use them in a way you described it. Servers already draw stupid amounts of power and produce a lot of heat. The contribution of the Peltier would be very little in terms of cooling, however, it will consume a lot of power. At least this is what I think.
@graphene1487
3 жыл бұрын
what about using copper heat pipes for cooling? Very nice work!
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Would not make any significant difference as the bottleneck is the Peltier cooler.
@yoyosfpv823
Жыл бұрын
Would Insulating the tubing help possibly?
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
Not enough to make a significant impact.
@TheThunderwars
Жыл бұрын
It is very inefficient, true. But I have a classic mini, with very little amount of cold air needed to be cooled. Would that be enough to cool the airlet's say 5° under ambient ? I have a 70 amp alternator, i could draw 40amp continuous just for the module at around 14v, that would be about 600w available, would that be useful or just a waste of time ? i'm not expecting insane cooling performance, feeling 25 instead of 30 would be a success.
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
Hi! In my opinion, cars are more difficult to cool down because their whole surface is exposed to the sun and they are not (well) insulated either. So you really need a great cooling power constantly. 600 W probably won't make any significant difference. A regular car AC is around 5x more powerful (roughly 3 kW), so you can guess how well it would perform with 600 W worth of Peltier coolers. Especially, because that 600 W is the electrical power and not the cooling power... I personally would not waste time and money on it.
@TheThunderwars
Жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist There is very little space under the bonet of a classic mini. I will try to use a refrigirator compressor, I've seen some were able to get around 1.500 btu, which should make a noticeable difference. Thanks :)
@Cigaristocat
4 ай бұрын
I see you are focusing on a house system. Try rethinking for old, classic cars where a belt driven compressor AC system is not viable place. I'm pretty sure you could get sufficient cooling of a car cabin with peltier devices. 12 or 16 peltier devices connected to three water blocks. Hot side goes to engine bay and a large PC cooling radiator (via reservoir and pump) and cold side goes to a radiator small enough to fit under the cabin air filter (also via reservoir and pump). Put antifreeze in the cold side and some mineral oil in the hot side. Also place sufficient fans on the hot side to dissipate the heat in to the engine bay.
@CuriousScientist
4 ай бұрын
But please show it and prove it, do not just say that one should do this or do that. I can also guess that we should have maglev trains everywhere because they are faster and smoother. But then, good luck with providing all the infrastructure for it. Same here.
@livingabestlife8
2 жыл бұрын
I've tried using Peltier to cool my water - it does not work. First, it takes a lot of energy if you do this for your van. Second, you can't seem to cool the hot side enough even if you use coolant. I tested it and the hot side made my enclosed testing area even hotter than the outside. So since I can't get the hot side to be cool the cold side is lukewarm thus no relief with cold air. My Plan B is I really have to use an ice maker to make ice and just use it with some kind of radiator hook up to a van to get cold air in the wilderness with no place to get ice.
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
Of course it takes a lot of energy, I am ranting about this in basically all of my Peltier-related videos and people just simply cannot accept it. If your hot side is getting too hot, you are probably running it at too high voltage and your cooling is bad. Make sure that you use large heatsink and proper thermal paste. I am also always emphasizing that one should not run the Peltiers at high (12-15 V) voltages. It is better to run them at lower voltage, around 8-10 V, but sometimes even lower voltage (6-ish) is preferred as their COP becomes better. Also, at this point, you will not be able to cool large volumes of water just with two Peltiers coolers. If I recall correctly, I mentioned it in my previous response, that you will need multiple devices. I meant something like 10 or so.
@livingabestlife8
2 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist 10 devices ... this is not practical for my small van :) I wish I could do it because van life requires a/c that does not cost 1k or 5k. Maybe my only recourse is to use the ice machine :):):) And just cool me up using a radiator with a tube routing cold water through them and a fan in front of it. Thank you for your reply. I did not pay enough attention to voltage here, but I use my van, which is based at 11.9 volts.
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
If you connect two identical Peltier coolers in series, they will get 6 V each if the supply voltage is 12 V. You would get much better performance. Also, I will start making Peltier cooler-related projects in the future again, so stay tuned and maybe you'll see some useful information in those videos.
@livingabestlife8
2 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist I will do that tomorrow. Thanks very much. but with that, I have to rewire everything :)
@livingabestlife8
2 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist Hello, I just cut 2 wires out of the group and connected them to make them into a series, and yes, the energy consumption is MUCH LESS. I also put a bottle of ice in the return hot water container. I wanted to see with a little bit of ice would make the hot side less hot so the cold side is coldest and provide a lot of cold water quicker. So one bottle of ice that can do the job for 4 hours of cold is something I can handle with the tiny fridge section of my fridge.
@lightfeather2439
3 жыл бұрын
With a COP of about 4 with a temperature differential of 10C, I am honestly questioning if it can be viable. You would need about 100 peltier modules for about a 5000BTU cooler which is the typical small window unit. 100 modules sounds like a lot but it would take about 400mmx400mm ($250)... also you need a large radiator for cooling the peltier and possibly another large radiator moving the cold to whatever room. Also the COP increases with a small temperature differential. There is also a huge benefit when you would want to heat the room which many AC dont have.
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
Yupp, this is the whole point of the video. It is not viable! It's not impossible, but as you also highlighted it requires a stupid amount of Peltiers. And using that many Peltier coolers will need a lot of cooling, a lot of power supplies and a lot of electricity. It's easier to buy a proper AC.
@lightfeather2439
3 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist the thing is it might have a niche market. It can be quite thin. No fluorocarbons or high pressures. High reliability. Possibly weigh less. And yeah 100 modules is a lot but you probably can get large discounts for production. Can be significantly quieter. Also it can be changed to a heater with a flip of a switch. I could possibly see this in RV/camper if done right. Just for reference a small unit air conditioner has a COP of 3.1. And at 30C a pettier has a COP of almost 4 when cooling down by a delta of 10C. Low power though, of about 3watts per module. With some engineering it could be a impressive unit.
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
@@lightfeather2439 Believe me, if there would be a good market for it, it would have been already sold as a popular product. The problem with the RV + Peltier combination is that they are very inefficient. You could use that energy more efficiently in a normal AC. There are companies manufacturing Peltier-based ACs (eicsolutions) but the cost is incredibly high and they are not very powerful... They also sell powerful stuff, but it is not affordable for an "average Joe" like me.
@spacejunk51
2 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist Dude dude dude.. My man .. You're missing the point. I know that you know the room temperature won't go down if the hot and cold side are in the same room. The cooling has to be isolated. The cooling time it takes the hot energy from the air molecule is a one time thing. Once the energy is taken away then it's a matter of how the isolated chamber is conductive to the ambient temperature. So in that time period of taking the heat energy obviously the power consumption will be higher or at peak. Once the heat energy is taken away the whole system will run as idle as the conduction with the ambient temperature. Please .. in the next experiment just take a Styrofoam box as big as possible you can get then just test it with the cold side in the box.
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
@@spacejunk51 I already have a series of experiments based on a "big Styrofoam box": kzitem.info/door/PLaeIi4Gbl1T8SlJY5ODqs2cn5hoXZlIWm The huge amount of extra energy as compared to the conventional ACs is still needed to get down to a lower temperature where the cooling power can be throttled down.
@iqcurazy7178
3 жыл бұрын
I have peltier module but I cannot make ice with it, does peltier really need a high current power supply? I use 12v 7A
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
What Peltier do you have? How do you want to make ice? Do you cool the hot side properly?
@iqcurazy7178
3 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist i have 12706 and 12715 but I never make ice with it, unlike some videos that I watch in in KZitem, i think my power supply current was not enough, it is just 12 volts 7 ampere power supply
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
You didn't answer my other questions. I can't help without knowing the details.
@Naveen27
3 жыл бұрын
Bro, I have one doubt. Temperature controller(220v 10A) connected to the input 220V and then to the SMPS(12v 20A) to peltier is safer or input connected(220) to the SMPS then to the temperature controller(12V 20A)to peltier is safer? Is there a possibility of current discharge through temperature sensor probe into the Aquarium? Directly connecting input 220v to the temperature controller is safe?
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
Hi! I do not entirely understand what you are saying, so I rephrase it to make sure. Is the temperature controller is a 220 V thermostat that switches a 220 V outlet? Then, you are hoping to switch the SMPS with this 220 V thermostat? So, at the end you switch the SMPS on and off to power the Peltier up and down, right? Are you aware of that it is a bad idea to switch the power on and off to control the temperature of the Peltier? It is much better to constantly control the voltage of the Peltier so you can keep the target temperature easily and you do not potentially damage your device by constantly cycling it. I actually made a controller which controls the power for a Peltier and it is not so difficult to build one: kzitem.info/news/bejne/uaB6p5uCfqWmm4o
@Naveen27
3 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist I am asking whether 220V temperature controller is safe or 12V 20A temperature controller is safer? Will there be any current discharge from the sensor probe into the water? Also, I will look into your voltage controller.
@Naveen27
3 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist also the constant load on SMPS won’t reduce it lifespan? I don’t know these stuffs that’s why asking?
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
Both should be the same safety I think. I mean, if voltage comes back in the temperature sensor, something is really messed up. I believe that the thermostat part is separated from the 220 V anyway in these circuits. Constant load is usually better than switching it on and off. One thing I can immediately think of is the potential thermal fatigue of the components. It might not be a thing, but still it is good to keep it in mind.
@Naveen27
3 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist constant load is better for SMPS too?
@travisjones3794
2 жыл бұрын
Could a peltier device be used to cool large volumes of water? Would it be possible to cool 20 cubic feet of water to freezing with peltier?
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
That's more than half a cubic metres... Absolutely not. Especially freezing the water would be very energy demanding. I explained it in some of my earlier videos but to bring a 0°C liquid water to 0°C frozen, solid state would take the same energy as to cool down the same amount of water from about 80°C to 0°C, if I remember correctly. Peltiers are already very inefficient, they would not be good for such a task. Even for traditional freezers that's a challenge. It is an unreasonably high amount of water anyway.
@travisjones3794
2 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist does the equation change if the objective is just to get the water very cold (1 degree C, for example), but to remain liquid? I guess your larger point is that peltier is energy inefficient for larger volumes? I was trying to validate if this only applied to use of peltier for purposes of cooling the air, via a water cooled system, or if the objective of just cooling the water (no objective to use the cool water to cool air) changed anything.
@travisjones3794
2 жыл бұрын
I guess the other factor here: if the large volume of water can take 2 days to cool to that level (no objective of reaching temp quickly), does that change the equation? And is the point that the energy costs would make it prohibitively expensive to operate?
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
Still would require ridiculous amount of energy and with Peltier coolers, much of the energy would be just wasted. I just wanted to emphasize that it would be even more challenging to actually freeze the water into solid. Phase transformation is always costly energetically.
@travisjones3794
2 жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist thank you for your reply. Is the only way then to efficiently cool at scale then using refrigerants of some sort? Is there an alternative besides peltier to refrigerants?
@bogletsmadven2498
2 жыл бұрын
Nice vedio, I'd like to do it on my car, since it has no aircon.
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks and good luck!
@qaisurrehman7106
Жыл бұрын
New technologies might be introduced in the market but simple hvac or compressor cooling systems are still more efficient and reliable in terms of cooling.
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
Yes, and it will probably stay like this for a very long time.
@karamveersingh3417
2 жыл бұрын
Isn't the difference of 11 degrees in between hot side heatsink and cold side water is a problem of "heat transfer" than the limitation of the peltier? Peltier will create X degree difference, at Y power.
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
To some extent, yes. However, it is also the nature of the Peltiers. We don't want to create too large temperature difference because that would undermine the cooling performance of the Peltier device.
@san3har
3 жыл бұрын
Affiliate link is broken mate
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
It should work now. I wrote the https part twice for some reason.
@stefanguiton
3 жыл бұрын
Good video
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@mohsinraza2491
Жыл бұрын
I would not recommend that setup if one wishes to test the efficiency of a Peltier cooling system. The biggest disadvantage of your setup is that you are using two heat exchangers to measure the cooling efficiency which is completely wrong. if you use 1 heat exchanger and use a single medium (air) instead of two mediums (water and then air) that will significantly increase the Peltier cooling system efficiency.
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
Hi! I replicated the system that most people ask about in the comment section (cooling water with Peltier coolers and then using the cold water to cool air). Also, many KZitem videos exist on this topic and all of them are misleading and they lack any explanation and measurements. I wanted to show them that it is useless. I think it is a fair demonstration for this purpose. If you check my other videos related to Peltier coolers and their comments I always discourage people from doing this because, as you also suggested, adding one more interface further decreases the performance. The "best" would be to have the cold side directly exposed to the environment that we want to cool (I have a video on that too). But I would not even build any "air conditioners" based on Peltiers because they are simply not made for that task.
@mohsinraza2491
Жыл бұрын
@@CuriousScientist I agree with that. i have not tried Peltier myself as a cooling system to this point, but I am pretty convinced that considering the very low capital cost these systems actually have a good chance to work in confined spaces. I believe I would learn along the way. I watched your video and as far as experimentation and research are concerned it's pretty good to explain the idea, I was hoping for more of a solution after this setup and I will go through the rest of Peltier's videos to find out more. I appreciate your efforts in making the videos to spread the knowledge.
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
@@mohsinraza2491 Thanks! I don't know what kind of solution I could have provided. I cannot change the intrinsic material properties of the Peltier coolers, and that is what decides the efficiency. But the conclusion is that since these devices are extremely inefficient, it simply does not worth it to build an AC with them. Yes, maybe a Peltier cooler is $5, but you need 30 of them to have considerable cooling power. Then you need to feed them, as well as cool them. So it is not cheaper than a proper AC with a compressor and in addition to that, the running cost is easily 3-5 times more expensive. They are the best when you need very good thermal stability (cooling laser diodes), or where you can directly mount something on its cold surface (x-ray detector or CCD camera). They are also used as "ovens" for reference voltage circuits. None of these requires several hundreds of cooling power, unlike an AC.
@1StanTheMan1
3 жыл бұрын
How about a bigger radiator?
@CuriousScientist
3 жыл бұрын
It would not change the outcome significantly as the hot side was not very hot.
@shreyaskumar5366
2 жыл бұрын
Try this experiment with TEC12715 please with proper 15Amp power supply
@CuriousScientist
2 жыл бұрын
Already did.
@kumareshdas4119
Жыл бұрын
nothing is bad idea
@CuriousScientist
Жыл бұрын
Well, if it doesn't work, then it is not a good idea, I guess. :}
@gergelymolnar5796
2 жыл бұрын
Are you Hungarian? Your accent tells me you are! :)
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