I am so glad that I was personaly in the crowds to listen to this speech as well as to hear you playing the piano in the most beautiful way,, such an amazing person and musician
@midnightmusic1087
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for giving this speech Ingolf. This addresses some of my issues in the music world. Great job in the Chopin Competition.
@Karlinberlin1
5 жыл бұрын
It's a hard thing to discuss - so many variables. Certainly composing is almost non existent. A lot of music few want to hear. Example - operas, song cycles based on modal scales. How can it not bore the public? As Wunder well knows instrumental music has become virtually just technique. To become a soloist you have to be a "personality". Artistry is not encouraged. Takes too much time. The worse for me is the voice. Each generation offers less than the previous. I hear singers at the Met supposedly at the height of their career singing off pitch without the technique to emulate the style if they understand it. I have a lot of music friends here in Berlin. They say the problem is now that there are few left who can teach these things.
@edwardgivenscomposer
3 жыл бұрын
egads! not "modal" scales! next thing you know the kids will start dancing
@chasun
2 жыл бұрын
On the surface it speaks about music and its industry, but it is much more profound than that towards the end. Why should we still play chess when a super computer can beat the best player? We need to embrace the human quality, instead of driven by technology and eventually enslaved by our own creation. Great speech, bravo.
@fryderyk_chopin_sir_newton
4 жыл бұрын
Not only a classical pianist but also a philosopher ! As a classical music lover and player, I can't agree more ! Thank you, Mr. Wunder !
@massimilianoturchi5305
5 жыл бұрын
I am really glad there is someone pointing out this view to a huge audience. We need more people like you, and us as teachers have to find for the artistry and the imagination of our students rather than robotics. I really hope competitions and musical market systems will learn from this and mive towards a better era for classical music!
@emilelaurent
5 жыл бұрын
Its just not true that in the 20th century music was only produced according to self invented rules, mathematical systems and without beauty: There is beauty, free invention and truth in Berg, Schönberg, Bartok, Kodaly, Veress, Ligeti, Kurtag, Messiaen, Francaix, Ustwolskaja, Shostakovich, Tishchenko, Penderecki, Lutoslavsky, Hersch, Illes. One reason for the existing decline is that the music industry and many interpreters just base themselves on repeating the already famous names (Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Chopin, Brahms) without any curiosity. Besides one has to disagree about optimism for the next fifty years: We will have a degrading environment, droughts, famines, migrations and wars and probably the end of civilisation as we know it. Lets enjoy and discover while we can.
@TheCanaryodoom
Жыл бұрын
I get that TEDx talks are more interesting perspectives and thought bites than really deep, comprehensive or complete systems of thought, but this exemplifies everything people who scoff at TED talks scoff at. Even chalking a lot up to ESL issues, this is pretty incoherent. Much of contemporary classical music is procedural and/or conceptual and increasingly less interested in tonality (or sometimes even pitch). I totally understand that that's less accessible and requires more engagement from an audience than Mozart. It fractures evaluation systems, and composers could absolutely be emphatic about the superiority of their particular systems, but there's no argument here for why that's bad other than the feeling that many people of every generation have that things were better in the past. Has the fracturing of evaluation systems created a new evaluation system that relies primarily on passion destroying mechanical accuracy? He cannot tell you why one system is better than another. In the face of mechanical evaluation he tauts passion, but obviously too MUCH passion creates subjective evaluation, which he doesn't like. He treats modern composition as self-centered novelty chasing, but there are clear reasons composers in the mid-20th century were looking beyond tonal, orchestral music. In some sense he's acknowledging that reasoning as correct, but rejecting the conclusion. Music WAS over, and that's GOOD he says. We had a fully explored musical system that we could all learn to appreciate more and more deeply rather than inventing new ones. This guy is smart and obviously dedicated, but nothing comes together. This is a loose bundle of pretty standard ideas that appeals to people who vaguely feel things were better in the past and not much more. It's many thoughts that largely fail to engage with the ideas those thoughts are about, if that makes sense. There's little connection, and certainly nothing like a conclusion. Disappointing.
@matteotabbia5773
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this Ingolf!
@beautyandthefaith
10 ай бұрын
You put words on many of the issues and solutions I have been thinking about too in later years. It is a movement growing for this. It's time to get organized and accelerate.
@ANDREA-yh4wv
2 жыл бұрын
This is my favorite speech of 2022! It takes brains and courage to give such an amazing speech!
@dominikakoscielniak6475
5 жыл бұрын
Wunder on ted z, fantastic!
@gabratara8541
5 жыл бұрын
Congratulation!
@novanova1644
4 жыл бұрын
First and foremost INGOLF WUNDER IS A SUPERIOR TO THE REST OF CONTEMPORARY MUSICIANS GIANT BRINGING THE ART OF CLASSICS TO LIFE, so it LIVES AGAIN within his magic performance. His philosophy is as authentic as his own unique rare art.
@kanak1904
5 жыл бұрын
He is in red!!!im so glad pianist like him talk in here interesting classical topics thank you
@dpara22
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this! Amazing!
@findelka1810
Жыл бұрын
I am just as saddened by the decline of classical music (and the quality of interpretations) as him. We like to think that there is endless progression, but it’s simply not true. Something that has reached its peak (like music from the baroque until the romantics) will also inevitably decline. Peace is always alternated with wars unfortunately. It’s the nature of things. We don’t know until when ‘classical’ music will be in decline or when will it start to recover and from how low. I certainly will do my best to keep it alive and teach my values to my kids and transmit it to audiences who are still interested. And I feel extremely lucky and privileged because I have continuous access to quality music and to the music of the past because of technology.
@agamaz5650
5 жыл бұрын
wow
@535Salomon
2 жыл бұрын
I find it interesting some musicians I know play baroque pieces... exactly as MIDI... I mean, it's ok to play the correct note's value but what about ornamentation which is pretty important for baroque style music?
@eahj7619
2 жыл бұрын
I generally liked that he addressed an issue of the modern music industry, however I did not like his talk. His take on the music industry should have been viewed lot more diverse. He generalized classical music as the only opposition to commercial music. And I do agree that classical music is a beautiful Genre of music. It isn't the only one. His idea about the uniformity of evaluation of music is flawed. Because the standardized criteria obstruct the change and development in the art. The differences in epochs in music happend by the different values of each epoch. Especially in our present the diversity in genre each driven by different values cause for a more then ever creative environment for the development of music. I do get that the core concepts of each genre should be set in stone, everything but the core concept shouldn't be standardized.
@carlhopkinson
Жыл бұрын
Wish he would have played for the audience. Fantastic pianist with an almost unmatched technique.
@jeffsmith1798
2 жыл бұрын
This is an excellent talk. I really appreciate Mr Wunder’s directness and truthfulness.
@FilippoGorini.pianist
5 жыл бұрын
May I say that this talk seems to me strongly opinionated, generic and even misinformed? Starting with the title itself, which is highly debatable and is instead presented as a fact; together with that the idea that, it would seem, all classical composers in the last century did not care about beauty but only about mathematical structures, and all classical performers only care about playing the right notes. To which performer or composer does this actually apply? To Prokofiev, to Ades, to Furrer, to Guibadulina? To Trifonov, to Lang Lang, to Kopatchinskaja or Steven Isserlis? In my experience most musicians, with different results, still strive with passion to either write new, beautiful, music (where what they personally believe is “beautiful” is the key to their writing) or to interpret pieces in a way that they believe is beautiful. And a lot of great art and great performances are still being produced. This is not to say that there are no problems with the world of music, of classical music, and of art in general. There are huge problems. But to blame it all on the artists, or on the school system, or on the industry, is just simplistic.
@Karlinberlin1
5 жыл бұрын
Strongly opinionated is good. :-)
@melfox215
4 жыл бұрын
I don't know how much you care about other subjects than classical music, but I would compare it to the current bubble in NBA Basketball due to protection of Covid-19. Classical music is listened by a very small and probably decreasing number of people and it's far from being attractive to young people. And, as Mr. Wunder is explaining, there are some reasons why classical music is like limited to an elite audience. I think he likes to find a way to make classical music more popular without becoming too common or emotionless. He seems to fear a time where classical music will disappear completely. As a 38 years old with an academic degree and parents who both use to listen to classical music, I can confirm that classical music never has played a relevant role in my music listening. And I observe this to like each of my friends. Looking at the younger generation, it's even worse. Classical music needs to be rescued in a way. Maybe the expectations inside the classical music society are too tight to allow some necessary evolution. Plus the external perception gets more and more into elite old white people coming together to separate from the majority.
@edwardgivenscomposer
3 жыл бұрын
@@melfox215 a big problem is use of the word "elite" to describe people who are more focused on the wine and cheese after the concert than the concert itself.
@TheCanaryodoom
Жыл бұрын
I don't know if strongly opinionated is necessarily a weakness, but it's definitely generic. Nothing goes deep enough to really get specific.
@SpyrineMusic
3 жыл бұрын
wait what when did he make a ted talk lol, anyway very interesting
@lucasgust7720
4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. I'm glad to see that there is a pianist of a young generation that has his own thinking and voice.
@edwardgivenscomposer
3 жыл бұрын
There is nothing elite about classical music. It is the pop music of the past. It has simply been supplanted by newer styles. In the renaissance the dominant musical style was Italian, during most of the common practice period, German, and since the 20th century - Afro-American.
@JuliaPikalova
3 жыл бұрын
The pop music of the past was the street musicians and songs. The music that today we call "classical" was played in the churches and in the houses of the nobility.
@edwardgivenscomposer
3 жыл бұрын
@@JuliaPikalova Beethoven was "popular". Mozart, Verdi was "popular" to this day everyone knows their most popular works - songs. Cab drivers politicians whoever. Church music was written on commission. Dinner music like what you describe was for the rich, sure. FYI WE are the rich now. And for the last 100 years the predominant style that everyone listens to in the west is an Afro-American style. No one is going to replace that with dodecophony for example.
@JuliaPikalova
3 жыл бұрын
It depends of how you define "popular" at times of Bach and Mozart.
@edwardgivenscomposer
3 жыл бұрын
@@JuliaPikalova I can live with that. :) We use many terms that obfuscate or make no sense - like "modern classical" (cough) and "Euro-American formal notated music" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue either, albeit more accurate. When Purcel published broadsides of songs about chamber pots, was he being "elite"? He is a great composer. Or was he appealing to the groundlings in the pit (common folk who bought the cheap tickets to the show) Pretty sure dance is the same - would say, the Tarantella have come from above or below? Beautifully refined now yes (Balanchine!), but in origin? Quality is a very difficult thing to put one's finger on. But one thing is for sure - "classical music" by and large, got out of step with western culture in a way that the visual arts did not. A pity. BTW I just watched one of your Ballet videos - LOVELY!
@JuliaPikalova
3 жыл бұрын
@@edwardgivenscomposer I agree with you that there's nothing elite - or I'd rather say nothing elitist - about the classical music (though I would not quite call it "pop of the past"). I also agree that in the few recent decades "classical music" got out of step - indeed more so than visual art, or poetry, or ballet, as long as you mentioned it. But "my ballet videos" left me puzzled... I wish I were a ballerina, but I'm not. One may find my piano or poetry videos instead ))
@raymondweidner3783
Жыл бұрын
As a published composer I have been wrestling with this very issue for years. Dr. Michele Zaccaginni pointed out in his video entitled "The Adorno Rule" the source of this problem--the Darmstadt lecture by Theodore Adorno where the seeds of modern (and later, postmodern) music were sewn in the minds of such composers as Boulez, Bloomdahl, Cage, Stockhausen, et al. and ultimately wormed their way into academic and elitist circles. It is a shame that many national arts organizations have bought into this philosophy, and only fund/support new works that sacrifice true artistic merit for mere novelty. It is gratifying to hear someone--especially from the younger generation--who recognizes this destructive direction in classical music.
@Ernesto7608
2 жыл бұрын
I think that Wunder should have included in his talk as an example of declining classical music the creation of atonal music. I don't know of a more dramatic example of this. While music is a combination of tones, tones by themselves are not music. I don't understand what went on in the mind of Schoenberg when he invented the dodecaphonic musical system. "Serialism", what a boring idea! But this cultural recession is not unique, and classical music is already reversing from this big mistake. For me, a near octogenarian, it's too late to care for modern compositions. There is such a treasure of Baroque, Classical, Romantic music, which as a child I loved from the first hearing without "having to get accustomed to it", that I can live without anything else.
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