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@EzraM5
2 жыл бұрын
While anything to reduce the overall cost of creating energy storage is a good idea, we are still kind of focusing on the wrong thing by putting all our cards into just cars and batteries. While this is definitely a massive discovery, we need to update our overall infrastructure not just from an EV standpoint, but from the perspective of everyday living. This means revamping how cities are built and how people get around in general.
@brokeandtired
2 жыл бұрын
A surprising amount of inventions was just some screw up or a guy screwing around....Fire from sticks probably happened because a Caveman got bored and rubbed some sticks together. Hopefully its fast charging too.
@SkepticalCaveman
2 жыл бұрын
The lithium-sulphur battery will hopefully be a important temporary step before *sodium*-sulphur battery that will be true revolution. The thing is that sodium-sulphur batteries might be *too* cheap, that the industry might prefer to make money on more expensive batteries. Lithium price will drop to nothing when sodium batteries arrives and people have invested a lot of money in Lithium. Sodium should outcompete lithium in the long run, but new technology comes with cost challenges as always.
@tippyc2
2 жыл бұрын
If they can develop the tech to be as durable as Li-ion in real world use, then i can see it overtaking the current generation of Li-ion batteries. Thing is though, better batteries wont enable mass electrification of everything until we upgrade the power grids to handle the demand.
@dalel3608
2 жыл бұрын
We have so much sulfur in Alberta we built pyramids out of them. And since we are producing Lithium soon, I could see us becoming a Li-S Batt builder.
@The8BitGuy
2 жыл бұрын
Call me skeptical. I've seen news of a new battery breakthrough about once a week for the last 10 years. And none of these have come to market. I think some of them are scams for investment money. I think some are actually lies by fossil fuel companies to delay their EV purchase by convincing customers that todays EVs will be obsolete next year, so people should wait. And others may actually be true but end up having some serious drawback that makes them inferior, such as cost, cycle life, temperature tolerances, etc. So, as always with these breakthroughs I just say "I'll believe it when I see it."
@VenomInMahEyes
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely!!! You hit the nail on the head. I used to be excited when the new battery technology comes forward but seeing the progress of this "new" technology, I'll only believe when it becomes commercial.
@GrabnarMyers
2 жыл бұрын
This
@DarkAvatar1313
2 жыл бұрын
Ah, that's why this video is in my feed. I'm still a gasoline addict so I haven't really looked into EV's (Plus I don't think they make a Jeep Wrangler EV yet.) The way gas prices are going though I might be looking into this further.
@ghoulbuster1
2 жыл бұрын
That's because batteries are pretty bad at energy storage, can't improve something that doesn't work.!
@baddriversofthenorcalarea500
2 жыл бұрын
They are a MUCH better storage medium than gasoline is. Way more efficient.
@Bitterjackal
2 жыл бұрын
Idea for an episode. A bi-annual update on all the "Battery Breakthroughs" and where they are in their development process. Seems like theres a breakthrough every other month but we don't often hear much after that. It gives the impression the breakthroughs have gone nowhere when it's really just a long development process/obstacles to mass production and it gets people like me cranky whenever we see the words "Battery Breakthrough".
@eaaeeeea
2 жыл бұрын
Same here. Although we haven't seen a new battery mass production breakthrough, I too would like to see a roundup of the progress of what's happening behind the scenes with all the different technologies. These things are incredibly hard problems to solve but I do want everyone competent enough researching all kinds of battery technologies in parallel. We WILL get a huge battery mass production breakthrough at some point because there's a huge demand to 1. electrify everything and 2. store the produced energy. I'd just like to track the progress in a convenient way.
@CrazyChickenFarmer
2 жыл бұрын
Nah people would realize that his videos are only hyped up
@robertweekley5926
2 жыл бұрын
A "Bi-Annual" 'Series' of Updates, of at least 5 Days, and 5 segments! To cover various Chemistry Advances, Production Advances, Mining Advances, Use Advances, etc!
@Italianstallion-v2f
2 жыл бұрын
I barely pay attention to new "revolutions, breakthroughs, etc." Well off to something else after only 1:50.
@Bullshitvol2
2 жыл бұрын
"it's really just a long development process" Thats not the reason you never hear about these "Breakthough" again. Most technologies (not just battery technology) are only feasable in a laboratory in a controlled environment.
@stucorbishley
2 жыл бұрын
Really appreciate the interview segments, I know it’s not easy arranging expert interviews, it does round out the whole video. Thoroughly enjoyed this one! 👍
@Novacification
2 жыл бұрын
Also just putting some faces on the real heroes in the world (not limited to scientists of course but excluding most celebrities)
@jursamaj
2 жыл бұрын
But between her accent & the low-quality audio, they didn't add value.
@siddharthiyer7244
2 жыл бұрын
@@jursamaj The accent and audio didn't take away any value. Her (over)use of jargon, though, made it hard to know what the key takeaway was.
@jursamaj
2 жыл бұрын
@@siddharthiyer7244 It certain did take away value, since it's hard to impossible to understand what she's saying. Some of the words are literally incomprehensible.
@gweedomurray9923
2 жыл бұрын
@@jursamaj ~ Her bits didn't add value either and it's too bad because I was interested to hear what she has to say on this. His fast vid clips cut off a bit at the end of some of his sentences. Look at Scotty Kilmer, an experienced video artist, to see how the fast clips are done; entertaining as well as informative.
@acanuck1679
2 жыл бұрын
This was really an impressive installment of your series, Matt. Your engagement of the Drexel team's scientist, Dr Vibha Kalra, really helped to make me understand the importance of this breakthrough. I would be intrigued by follow-up programs about the sulphur-sodium battery idea. Thank you!
@mister_damian
2 жыл бұрын
Sulphur-sodium would be so much better than lithium and cobalt, i dont see why they aren't heard about and considered more often
2 жыл бұрын
that'll be a real game changer for EVs cheaper, way smaller eco footprint - sulfur & sodium are abundant. But until such battries hit the market the "Toyota style plugins" (RAV prime, NX 450h+) are much better than pure EVs
@TechnoMageB5
2 жыл бұрын
I recall reading an article in 2016 about a discovery [by accident] that using a gel instead of liquid in Li-Ion battery increased the cycle life from 2k-8k range to well past 100k. Further testing needed to be done to see how feasible it was in the real world. Haven't heard a peep since. Now with this sulfur option, it doesn't render the other solution obsolete, but the higher energy density certainly gives an advantage. Application purpose would be the driver of which technology was chosen.
@ArkAngelHFB
2 жыл бұрын
IIRC the problem with the Gel solution from back then was that the advantages broke down when the battery got hotter... and the degradation was permanent. So yes the longevity could be HUGE... but you had to NEVER let the battery get hot... Which is nearly fucking impossible because in almost every use case heat got produced just by use... or worse by environment.
@jumpinjehosephat1877
2 жыл бұрын
@@ArkAngelHFB Sounds like something that could be mitigated in an energy storage farm such as what Tesla is doing.
@ArkAngelHFB
2 жыл бұрын
@@jumpinjehosephat1877 Most likely, but it also means that you have to charge and discharge is VERY slowly.
@larsbee
2 жыл бұрын
there have been so many breakthrough innovations in the past two decades... some low tech some high tech but none have changed much in dealing with the problems next generations have to cope with ... I fear that EV will not be the solution... more human powered vehicles and more mass transit is the solution
@ArkAngelHFB
2 жыл бұрын
@@larsbee That is a wildly inaccurate statement.
@NinetooNine
2 жыл бұрын
I know you mentioned it a little but there should have been a bigger focus on just how much lighter these batteries would be compared to lithium-Ion batteries. They are in the order of 1/3rd the weight of existing batteries. That is the reason the drone and aerospace industry is what they are aiming at. Also, lithium will largely be a solved problem in the next 5 years. The Salton Sea production of Lithium is coming online. They will literally 1.5x the amount of lithium on the market over the next 10 years.
@noobandfriends2420
2 жыл бұрын
Finally, flying cars.
@harshithsg5483
2 жыл бұрын
8 times theoretical energy density should mean it is 8 times lighter than li-ion right?
@harshithsg5483
2 жыл бұрын
Nevermind, I just realised he said drexel ones are only 3 times energy dense
@richdobbs6595
2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm. But to continue the transition to EV's you need 50 times the lithium on the market over the next 10 years. And that ignores the needs for roof top and grid scale storage for PV. So I wouldn't say that it is a solved problem.
@AdministrativeReload
2 жыл бұрын
I second the motion for talking more about the properties of the chemistry. While 2x lithium ion is interesting, it still can't compete with LiFePo4 for cycle life and would be a barrier for mainstream EV use. What about operational temperature range? Charge/discharge rates? There would certainly be great applications for this tech, but there are still limitations as well.
@Sercil00
2 жыл бұрын
As much as I like to listen to battery breakthroughs, I'm not sure I've ever heard from any of them again after a while. I get that this kind of stuff takes years to just leave the lab and then even more years to go into mass production for consumer products... but pretty much everything cool I heard from was never spoken of again, even in such a long timeframe.
@Predated2
2 жыл бұрын
Well, there are a few things to keep in mind: 1. most improvements on the battery side are so minor that you dont recognise it 2. most breakthroughs are completely accidental
@ShiroKage009
2 жыл бұрын
You never hear of them because you just hear about better batteries later.
@worldcomicsreview354
2 жыл бұрын
Years ago I heard about using lasers instead of spark plugs in cars to burn all of the petrol cleanly, thus making conventional internal combustion engines much greener and vastly more efficient overnight. That was the theory, anyway, never heard from it again. You'd think fossil fuel companies would have been all over it. But I guess car companies didn't like something that could vastly improve old cars (and thus not force people to buy new ones) with a bit of spannering.
@turkishgod5903
2 жыл бұрын
In the video he says that it has been in testing for over a year
@DopeyFish
5 ай бұрын
lithium ion used to be one of those batteries, it took decades to get adopted and then we almost immediately regretted it lol
@rgeraldalexander4278
2 жыл бұрын
I generally skip the almost daily "battery breakthrough" videos, but knew from past experience I could expect some grounded and accurate information here...Thanks Matt! Sure hope this process is able to be scaled up to produce low cost high performance batteries. Sounds great, and five or six years is not too long to have an impact on EV adoption.
@rgeraldalexander4278
2 жыл бұрын
@Plentus Fair enough
@blackoak4978
2 жыл бұрын
Lol, I ignored it 3 times when it came up in my recommended videos, them finally clicked
@xbxb
2 жыл бұрын
6 years to what? Achieve what the market is offering? What will be that product after 6 year, current product will be surely more affordable and specs will probably double or triple before that "breakthrough" hit the market.
@larsbee
2 жыл бұрын
there have been so many breakthrough innovations in the past two decades... some low tech some high tech but none have changed much in dealing with the problems next generations have to cope with ... I fear that EV will not be the solution... more human powered vehicles and more mass transit is the solution
@nameless-og
2 жыл бұрын
Same here 😆
@AngieMeadKing
2 жыл бұрын
Hope this makes it to market!
@larsbee
2 жыл бұрын
fat hope
@cybyrd9615
2 жыл бұрын
Yea just another scam where the 1st author is a intern at Tesla
@trazyntheinfinite9895
2 жыл бұрын
It wont. Its hogwash.
@JAN0L
2 жыл бұрын
I would like to see how many of the "breakthroughs that matter" shown on this channel over the past 2 years turned out to be vaporware.
@samuelallen6494
2 жыл бұрын
Vaporware?
@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman
2 жыл бұрын
@@samuelallen6494 hot air/fake
@user-fy7ri8gu8l
2 жыл бұрын
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman Eh, It doesn't mean they're fake in this context. All of these breakthroughs are mostly real in battery tech. The issue are 99% of the time there's just not a way to mass produce the battery for market at a leveled cost that makes it profitable. Often times there's not even a means to scale the production at all so it's just a dead end. The materials are very real, but the bigger problem that's always even harder is how to mass produce them.
@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatman
2 жыл бұрын
@@user-fy7ri8gu8l yeah, i know, and it sucks to be honest
@ardentjunglist
2 жыл бұрын
@@user-fy7ri8gu8l capitalism dulls the edge
@BobHannent
2 жыл бұрын
Sodium-Sulphur would be amazing for grid scale storage, especially when their manufacture can be linked to desalination plants to supply fresh water. Perhaps something for those Middle Eastern desalination plants to feed, especially in a post oil era.
@Real_MisterSir
2 жыл бұрын
I think Hydrogen electrolysis plants would work better for long-term storage. Imagine having a solar farm hooked up to a local energy grid in any dry desert-like place (central US, Middle East, North Africa, Mongolia, Australia, Southern Europe, etc). All surpluss energy would generate power for water electrolysis to separate hydrogen molecules from oxygen and store the hydrogen long term as a fuel source when needed. Until recently the main issue was producing electrolysis cells large enough to make this concept quantifiable and grid-level worthy, but a recent breakthrough this year by a Danish phd student has flipped this completely and shortened this option with almost a decade (so that it is possible to implement within the next 5 years or so). At the very least, a combination of hydrogen and sodium-sulphur batteries for storage would be great. The sulphur based batteries would likely present a better option for adaptive implementation if surplus energy storage is needed in a specific location for a duration of time until more permanent systems can be installed.
@BobHannent
2 жыл бұрын
@@Real_MisterSir hydrogen electrolysis is a surprisingly inefficient cycle and depends on the availability of water. But solid state Sodium-Sulphur batteries can be moved anywhere, require no maintenance and supply electricity on demand.
@wirelesmike73
2 жыл бұрын
I was thinking the exact same thing.
@kdrapertrucker
2 жыл бұрын
Desalination plants need a plan to deal with brine, if they throw it back in the sea they will poison the water.
@XenZenSen
2 жыл бұрын
@@Real_MisterSir hydrogen storage and transport isn't like working with natural gas. It's leaks out of everything unless you take care to really maintain tightly specd equipment
@murdelabop
2 жыл бұрын
Nomenclature! Everything you mentioned are all "lithium ion" batteries. What you're referring to as "lithium ion" are actually NCMA chemistries, which use various combinations of nickel, cobalt, manganese, and aluminum in their matrix.
@ChrispyNut
2 жыл бұрын
"Huh, that's weird", the source of the greatest breakthroughs. :)
@leandersearle5094
2 жыл бұрын
Penicillin? Is that you?
@benjaminmiddaugh2729
2 жыл бұрын
Most of the time we forget that science is really just a formalized version of trying things and seeing what happens.
@hillbilly4895
2 жыл бұрын
Drexel: Eureka! China: Thanks, we'll take it from here.
@scottgarriott3884
2 жыл бұрын
I really love your channel and appreciate the well researched, medium-deep analysis and future outlook comments on new technologies. You do an outstanding job. I would LOVE to see a graphical "map" of the various energy storage schemes comparing their efficiency, energy density, expected development and likely market launch times and maybe a few other factors illustrated. I think it would be fantastic and super-interesting to see these compared to Li-ion and even to update the graph every year and watch as some techs really take off or appear out of nowhere while other dwindle and disappear. Really fascinating stuff!
@rampage3337
2 жыл бұрын
he has done no reserch att all.... it's a litteral scam this does not work
@TwilightMysts
2 жыл бұрын
This is one of the critical steps needed to make large scale EV implementation viable. Glad to see some progress.
@rampage3337
2 жыл бұрын
it's not real
@joeking4206
2 жыл бұрын
You do a great deal of research, and well done for getting high level researchers to give you their time.
@StarBoundFables
2 жыл бұрын
Dr. Vibha Kalra's doing some awesome work, Lithium Sulphur batteries sound incredibly awesome 😃 GoodLuck! & thank you, Matt, for sharing this research with us🙏🏽
@hiltonian_1260
2 жыл бұрын
A couple of things to consider about battery development: Speaking as a renewable energy professional, former EV builder, and long time battery geek, I have observed that if you want to know if a battery will last ten years, it takes…ten years. Ten years using the batteries twenty different ways. Chemistries that work well in the lab don’t necessarily work well at high discharge rates, with thermal cycling, or with the vibration and jolts of vehicular use. Reducing size and weight has consequences. No battery is 100% efficient and the heat of charging and discharging has to go somewhere. The more energy you pack in a small space the harder it is to get the waste heat energy out. Less surface area per volume. The less mass, the less to transmit that heat to the surface of the battery. There’s a limit, even with active cooling, to how energy dense you can make a battery. At some point you have to space cells to make it artificially less dense. I blame sci-fi for the dilithium crystal fallacy: we’ll extract a city’s worth of power out of this thing the size of a baseball without it glowing white hot and exploding. No problem.
@dalegreer3095
2 жыл бұрын
Most applications are more concerned about weight than volume, so maybe layouts using materials with higher specific energy could trade some volume for cooling? I mean, if your EV is already designed for a battery of a certain volume, then if you have cells with 3 times the specific energy, you could space them out in the volume you have and get more cooling that way.
@hiltonian_1260
2 жыл бұрын
@@dalegreer3095 True! Car makers have figured out how to incorporate the volume of present technology batteries into a sedan, so any volume bonus can go to cooling.
@vladimirnekic3241
2 жыл бұрын
Our biggest need as a human civilization. Better batteries... very exciting.
@davidbentley4731
2 жыл бұрын
This is awesome. Well done guys. As an interesting side note I was involved in the early days of that Rio Tinto project in Serbia. That was way back in 2003. That’s how long these things take and even now it’s hitting issues!!!
@andrazlogar861
2 жыл бұрын
By hitting issues you mean RT is no longer allowed to explore Serbia?
@no-damn-alias
2 жыл бұрын
What does that have to do with research on battery technology?
@cloudlion7427
2 жыл бұрын
Its better this than having Rio Tinto destroying ecosystem like they wish for goals of profit. There is laws and to be honest we all know Tinto is not without a stain concerning pollution or even respect of native or aboriginal land . There is laws because they have (mines) destroyed many things and leaving like theif. Profit, Profit, profit is all they have in mind
@cloudlion7427
2 жыл бұрын
And I would invite people to read about Rio Tinto serbia . Out of the Tinto internet page and go into external sources who are not as biased as scientific working for Tinto and boosting or shrinking number so Tinto get the green light asap.
@cloudlion7427
2 жыл бұрын
@@andrazlogar861 well sure when you have pollution even before it start and nothing growing around the well they used for testing no wonder why big protest went on . Rio and most of mining companies just dont give a dam about doing things the good way . There is always a ecologic disaster with theme. After they come up with tail between the legs to manipulate the people saying it wont happen again but guess what it happens every time . Just take tinto who destroyed a 45 000 yo aboriginal sacred site...as always...a few excuses when manifestations start and out they go keeping on going . Its like they are too stupid to think human do remember.
@abacusexpress
2 жыл бұрын
I remember watching a documentary on batteries. From I recall at the time there 10 different type of batteries the scientists were working on. The crux was in the lab all ten worked perfectly, the issue became manufacturing it in the plant. They figured once that can be achieved these batteries will end up in the market place. They pointed out that it took 10 yrs to perfect the manufacturing of lithium ion batteries. It’ll take some doing it will happen
@Bob_Adkins
2 жыл бұрын
Battery technology hasn't had a true "revolutionary breakthrough" in the entire history of the storage battery. We have been blessed with many incremental bumps in storage density over many years. We're so close to being truly practical in Li-Ion and LiFEP04 cells. Just imagine how much a sudden 25% bump in charge density would change the world!
@scottslotterbeck3796
2 жыл бұрын
Nuclear, carbon-free
@jakemeyer8188
2 жыл бұрын
Scrolling through my feed, your video (thankfully) shows up, but somehow my brain saw the yellow powder and read, "Battery" as "Batter-y"....like it was cake mix. Delicious, fluffy, batter-y goodness breakthrough. I don't know wtf is wrong with me this morning.
@Tugedhel
2 жыл бұрын
Matt: I appreciate your tendency to step back and research the broader scope of a market or technology to nest the specific point of interest in the greater context... as you did by bringing in Lyten to this discussion.
@jaimieconroy36
2 жыл бұрын
The lithium sulfur battery technology looks promising. I hope that it can deliver better batteries without impacting the environment. It seems necessary to find altternatives to fossil fuels and a good battery could help.
@dustincaldwell2049
2 жыл бұрын
Renewable energy is the first goal.
@isaiah4510
2 жыл бұрын
Why? There is more green on the earth than possibly in a long time? Won't get into the science behind earth core temp etc. And it's effects by shade/trees. Co2 is a necessity for earth
@kylenolan2710
2 жыл бұрын
@@isaiah4510, nice repetition of infinitely refuted denial industry Big Lies. How's the pay? Or do you actually believe all that?!
@harshithsg5483
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, advancements in electronic technology has been increasing at a very high rate except batteries, their technology has been the same more or less since last 12 years. Recently, we have been seeing advancement through llithium polymer batteries and now this.
@isaiah4510
2 жыл бұрын
@@kylenolan2710 well they are kind of facts. Do your own research besides the global initiatives put forth by media. I'm not against renewable energy by the way.
@rex8255
2 жыл бұрын
I always get a chuckle when hearing about the history of various chemical discoveries. A huge number of them "And I accidentally discovered..." in there somewhere.
@DamnedMonkey
2 жыл бұрын
Just for a general note; most any laboratory discovery across any discipline is assumed to take about 5 to 6 years to reach the consumer (after they start - Dr. Kalra didn't seem to imply they were ready; though, that could just be reasonable caution as one would want and expect from a well rounded Scientist). Five to six years is the bell curve average if related industrial processes either already exist or can be easily adapted to the new discovery's requirements. But, the time is longer when it would involve a completely new industrial process (new machinery and scale testing stretch cost and efforts out) or the time is shorter if existing machinery and processes already work with it. Like where a small chemistry change to an existing battery could take only months to implement. It's a good set of rules for looking at ROI over time if investing in startups or companies who are trying to use something just out of a lab. It doesn't make for a bad investment if completely new industrial processes are necessary, but 5 to 6 can turn into 9 to 10 years with increased risk for the investment if another discovery in the field gets there faster with similar benefits.
@lifeaccordingtobri
2 жыл бұрын
Great video Matt. The tech sounds promising but we'll just have to wait. Sometimes I feel numb from all the "New Battery Tech Solves EVERYTHING" announcements. Seems like a better mousetrap is invented every day but then crickets. Still waiting for 2025 because all the worlds problems will be solved in that year according to all the announcements recently LOL. Keep up the good work.
@electroflame6188
2 жыл бұрын
This is because a new battery technology doesn't just have to be better; it has to be _so much better_ that it beats out the economies of scale already in place for lithium-ion batteries.
@Orionrobots
2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty excited about what this means for the future of small mobile robots - batteries have always been one of the main limiting factors on weight and cost. The better safety sounds good too.
@synthos999
2 жыл бұрын
As somebody doing his PhD on Li-S batteries, I am happy they get more coverage. Carbonate electrolytes redirected the research towards a solid-state conversion process (with an liquid electrolyte. So we are not talking here about full solid state batteries). But, we are still far away from commercial release. Full carbonate based system so not yet achieve the energy density of commercial li-ion batteries. (or in other words, a LIB powered car can still deive further than any car that would use carbonate based Li-S batteries. Also, for a new battery technology to succeed, it needs to integrate well in the current production scheme, since the production of LIB is highly optimized. If a company has to buiöd a new production process, it would take years before the prices are competitive (due to economies of scale). So, many challenges ahead, but we are working in it :)
@richardwhite3521
2 жыл бұрын
Being a vehicle technology educator, and excited for EVS but acknowledging the range issue, this has me very excited.
@darkhorseman8263
2 жыл бұрын
I am an experimental human longevity researcher. I'm not telling you the exact biological pathways as to why and how, but Sulphur and Sulphide deficiency, and their transporters, plays a huge role in ageing, and many of the frailty issues involved in ageing. The reason is a lot like why we get dysfunction in batteries, and is prevented and regulated by NQO1, the equivalent of a cellular carburettor. Maybe I should try to hack what I know about the human body into a hybrid biological battery. I've already found ways to regulate NQO1 in such a fashion that it extremely slows, sometimes even freezes ageing, via modulation of redox reactions and cellular access to NAD+. It can cause most cancers to self-destruct, by undermining their access to NAD+, in the process. This video actually gave me an idea how one would go about it. What is going wrong in the batteries is the same as the buildup of advanced glycation end products in human ageing, and certain non mutation based cancers.
@stevej7139
2 жыл бұрын
It's interesting for sure although I would like to see a comparison with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries , charge/discharge cycles are about 10 times better than Lithium Ion but it does sacrifice weight and some power density in it's early lifetime but surpasses it within a hundred cycles or so .
@MrHeHim
2 жыл бұрын
They last far more than just a few extra hundred cycles. LFP batteries last from over 3x to 10x than typical Lithium Ion (3,000-10,000 cycles), and they do not have Nickle or Cobalt. Many new Tesla Model 3's use LFP batteries, especially in China Edit; Did some more research lol About half of the new Model 3's come with LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate), and are 9% heavier 😅 The 3k-10k cycles can be seen as exaggerated as the capacity is lower and will have to go though more charges for the equal range of Lithium-Ion. If you go with 2/3's energy density, that still means 2x-5x mileage life. They seem to have more stable chemistry, theoretically better charge rates without degrading (recommend 100% charge BTW) but limited to 170Kw 😅 So, if you don't mind hitting the charger a litter more (267 EPA range, with 250+ observed in tests going 65 vs 358 EPA on the Lithium-Ion long range Model 3) you can charge 100% without worrying about degrading the batteries and can run them down then all the way back up also without degrading any much faster. And it's half a second faster than the alternative Standard Range with Lithium-Ion. Side note; the Lithium Ion does recommend 80% charge for daily use reducing range by 20% giving you just over 210 miles BUT the batteries also degrade more when going under 20% if i'm not wrong. But with current pricing it's "only" 6K more for the long range with AWD and better speaker system which is considered one of the best in any car made 😍
@steeplecab
2 жыл бұрын
Keep in mind there are some heavy duty applications, such as railroad locomotives, where additional weight could really be an asset, since weight directly translates to tractive effort.
@stevej7139
2 жыл бұрын
@@MrHeHim heh I didn't say they didn't last far more cycles in total use , what I said was this , The power density (the amount of power per pound) of a LiFePh4 battery is lower than lithium ion only for a short period of time in other words due to the degradation of the power density of a lithium ion versus LiFePh4 has the power density graph cross after a couple hundred cycles or in other words LiFePh4 has a higher power density after only a couple hundred cycles . Personally if I bought an electric car I would want the LiFePh4 batteries for several reason . My battery backup systems I use camping and etc. are all LiFePh4 .
@DAGARDNER10
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly, you do an amazing job keeping up with battery technology! Thank you for always sharing this information, I am excited for the future!!
@SlowPCGaming1
2 жыл бұрын
I remember the progression of rechargeable batteries. Everyone was gaga over NiCads, then NiMhs, then Lithium, then Li-Air, Li-ion, etc.
@elmarwinkler6335
2 жыл бұрын
Matt, hi from Germany. A company, Theion, in Berlin, Germany is mass-producing this batteries already. Hopefully we can use this batteries for homes and cars in the not so far future. Otherwise, great job with your videos. As they say, Keep up the good work. German Greetings. Oh, and stay safe and healthy.
@bdbgh
2 жыл бұрын
Honestly I just want a battery tech that doesn't degrade as badly as lithium ion for the consumer market now, heard so many miracle materials/technique/compound in the 2010s but lithium ion is still here as the most common battery in a lot of applications.
@sevencostanza3931
2 жыл бұрын
Yes battery tech is in reality is way too slow in progressing, & it is NOT getting cheaper, EV's are just getting more expensive. If EV's are to widely adopted, the price has to go down, not UP UP UP.
@lesp315
2 жыл бұрын
@@sevencostanza3931 BS! Prices are going down. You can buy Ford Maverick for $20K and we have double digits inflation. Thanks to stupid administration, but that what majority wanted.
@DavidHalko
2 жыл бұрын
LiFePo4 is lasting longer in cycles… lithium titanate basically lasts forever…
@zeedstun891
2 жыл бұрын
ithium phosphate has been taking over generators for having a longer life cycle and not exploding when punctured. but its heavier so its not in phones or drones yet
@gamingmarcus
2 жыл бұрын
I mean why would manufacturers voluntarily invest in a longer lasting product? If you have to buy a new one just because the battery dies, that's perfect for them.
@freddythefrog
2 жыл бұрын
Well spoken and communicated info. Thanks. Just a few years back our auto mechanic(life-long) said electric cars would never make it due to battery issues. Ha… I’m betting on these new battery technologies… TMI to follow: : ) I grew up with an oil burner car(worn out 6 volt 52 Chevy that guzzled $.43/qt. bulk oil with its Ethyl gasoline)… dang, that was a lot of unnecessary pollution. ✌🏼🐸
@FilAmGabe
2 жыл бұрын
Great video Matt! Sounds like this has a great chance of hitting the market 👌.
@morrius0757
2 жыл бұрын
Battery development excites me to no end, our lack of battery storage seriously slows down what we can do with consumer technology.
@TPixelAdventures
2 жыл бұрын
I believe that variety in battery tech will be the most important factor in whether the world can move towards non-combustibles. Civilisation consumes energy in every form and every size...so having multiple techs allows manufacturers to adjust for where it's needed. For power, the main problem with renewables is storage. Better battery tech will allow renewables to ride out dips and peaks, and also provide a buffer for when demand spikes. I don't believe we'll be able to 100% convert to renewables in the next 20 years, but we might be able to do something like an 80-20 split instead. Coal/Oil plants will provide a stable output to maximise their efficiency, while renewables handle the rest.
@visiongrande1467
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Matt, love all your videos. This is my favourite youtube channel :)
@estraume
2 жыл бұрын
My guess is that raw material shortages might play a role in the choice of future battery technology. Exchanging Lithium based technology with Sodium, at least for stationary grid energy storage, would be part of the solution.
@where1024
2 жыл бұрын
What I want to know about these cells, are what are the nominal, fully charged, and discharged voltages on a single cell and what the amperage output would be like (example, a single cell of 1000mah capacity)
@Bullshitvol2
2 жыл бұрын
The voltage should be probably/hopefully also around 4.2V. I mean It is still using lithium. The thing about all of these "Battery Breakthrough" that we are hearing every month is that the majority of them (100% until now) are only feasable in the laboratory.
@vornamenachname2625
2 жыл бұрын
You have to distinct between stationary and mobile power storage. For stationary power storage energy density not a issue. It just do not matter how heavy your batteries are. So if your batteries are twice as heavy and cost only half as mutch thats good. For mobile application it is the other way around.
@davidelliott5843
2 жыл бұрын
Cobalt is used to reduce battery cell volatility. Iron based cells do not have this problem. They are a little less energy dense but can be used 0% to 100% without degradation. More dense LFPs would be low cost yet maintain their low environmental impact.
@aht1981
2 жыл бұрын
I'd be interested to know the efficiency of the batteries they have been testing. The lifespan and energy density advantages sound great but the efficiency is also hugely important.
@hurktang
2 жыл бұрын
Depends on the usage... as I understand half the initial cost of a good green energy power plant is now sunk into the batteries. So the full plant could end up being 66% cost of the orginal. At that point you just build 3 solar plant for the price of 2 and you don't mind the efficiency.
@aht1981
2 жыл бұрын
@@hurktang that's a fair point but only if the efficiency is within an expected range. If the efficiency is low enough then scaling up the input could a become uneconomical. But, just like you, I imagine this is not the case. I was thinking more in terms of the car/drone usage. If it becomes the standard battery for all EVs then the efficiency becomes important. When you scale up the usage, the losses could really mount up. And if this kind of battery is used to store energy multiple times after being generated then it gets worse still (i.e. wind turbine > on site battery > grid > ev battery). That said, if the efficiency is higher than current batteries then we are definitely onto a winner! 😁 Also, now I think about it, I wonder about charge times too 🤔 we definitely need another video on this! *Hint hint
@aht1981
2 жыл бұрын
@@charonstyxferryman that's true! Fingers crossed for a follow up video..
@eugenegee2148
2 жыл бұрын
My vote is for graphene batteries if we can develop the technology to produce it cheaply on a mass scale. It is way superior to lithium in terms of being much better for the environment, wide availability, and producing a much more powerful lighter efficient battery.
@TimeTParadox
2 жыл бұрын
I agree, graphene might be the way. It has so many possible applications besides batteries that it makes sense.
@rehorekMichal
2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Why though use metric with imperial units in brackets and then all of a sudden use gallons and omit litres? ... Not only that, but why use gallons per tonne, i.e. imperial unit per metric unit?
@no_rubbernecking
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed about the inconsistency. Regarding tonnes when spelled that way, that is indeed metric, but on the screen he spelled it ton. In the U.S. we have an imperial ton that is 2,000 avoirdupois pounds or 907.18474 kg. Here when we speak of a ton outside of a scientific or technical context, that is the ton that's understood unless we specify the term "metric tonne". In writing, if we see just "tonne" it is normal to assume that metric is referenced, because "tonne" is a traditionally British/UK spelling of the word. 20 years ago in U.S. writing, i never ever saw the spelling "tonne" alone without the word "metric" in front, because there was deemed too much possibility for confusion. After all, the words tonne and ton are technically the same word, just using British vs. American spelling conventions. Today, however, i'm seeing many more cases of just "tonne" than i am of "metric tonne", which i suppose reflects that younger generations in the U.S. are unlikely to even consider the possibility of using an imperial ton in technical writing. I suspect it's now being taught that in technical usage it is a serious error to quote imperial tons for any purpose, even as a translation. Though that was not entirely the case when i was in university in the 80s. However, in public communications, the spelling "ton" is still commonplace and is widely understood to refer to the imperial ton.
@juhotuho10
2 жыл бұрын
yeah, it wouldn't be hard to have both on screen at the same time
@rehorekMichal
2 жыл бұрын
@@no_rubbernecking Wow, I had no idea about the ton / tonne difference (not only that, but after some googling I now learnt that there is a "short ton" and "long ton", with both tons expressing different weights of course...). Funnily enough, this shows the need for consistency as this means that I would have confused one of the units used, therefore arriving to a wrong conclusion solely based on unit confusion. … Imperial units strike again.
@no_rubbernecking
2 жыл бұрын
@@rehorekMichal Yes indeed! Though I feel like within my lifetime we will be using more metric than imperial.
@dtempleton22936
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Matt for your focus on energy storage technology. I'm writing to suggest you consider a relatively new technology for energy storage, that is green ammonia. Ammonia is essentially a way to store hydrogen using lower technology than that needed for gaseous H2. The infrastructure already exists for storage and transport of liquid ammonia, and it is suitable for transportation because it can be used in diesel engines (with some tweaking) with an energy density more than half of diesel fuel. Recent scientific articles and a test project in Australia have demonstrated an N2-H2O fuel cell and improved ways of generating ammonia from unused electricity. I hope you can consider checking this out and presenting it sometime to your (considerable!) audience.
@MisterTrotts
2 жыл бұрын
'over charge discharge cycles' the CCs through me off when you didn't include the 4,000 matt! good video as always
@tayro7265
2 жыл бұрын
Discovered by accident. A lab at the end of the day mixed all the failed lab samples together to clean the equipment. Common practice. One day they left the mixed goo in a beaker. When they returned after the weekend it had hardened with a stainless steel bar in it. After failing to be able to remove the bar it was used as the lab hammer. For four years. After seeing this mistake survive four years of pounding, someone finally asked what is this stuff. After much head scratching finally figured out how they made the worlds strongest polymer while trying to make the worlds strongest polymer.
@henrymonroy9533
2 жыл бұрын
This channel is VERY quickly becoming my favorite! These videos do a GREAT job of feeding my need to understand more.
@ajithambalakat
2 жыл бұрын
While I love these technology break throughs, I wonder how these breakthrough would affect recycling of current batteries? A new chemistry that doesn't use any of the materials in the current battery and can be made cheaper due to the abundance of raw materials (Sodium and Sulphur) should reduce the economic viability of recycling. Would it still be recycled or is it another E-Waste problem in the making?
@WorldWalker128
2 жыл бұрын
Most things aren't being recycled nearly to the efficiency that people think it is. If batteries are the same it would not surprise me at all.
@scottslotterbeck3796
2 жыл бұрын
Nuclear
@Puma1Sunfire1
2 жыл бұрын
FANTASTIC!! Possibly more energy out of more readily available materials!
@rafaeltorres2886
2 жыл бұрын
What's important not only the storage but the discharge rate the higher the better without damaging the cell.
@interestedmeow
2 жыл бұрын
You WAY undersold how easy sulphur is to obtain. Almost all Canadian Oil and Gas, the cleanest and most ethical on the planet, has sulphur in it due to it being ‘sour’ or having H2S compounds in it. We literally have to pull the sulphur out and through it away. Alberta could become the next battery manufacturing hub with this news. We have both Lithium salts and sulphur in our O&G.
@jefferyshall
2 жыл бұрын
I didn't even have to wait beyond the intro to answer the question. As soon as you said "it may be the holy grail of power storage" THAT automatically guaranteed that it will always be about ten years away.
@workermaster1
2 жыл бұрын
It sound great, but everytime there is some news about a breakthrough of some kind, then that breakthrough isn't heard from again in a long time. I hope that this can actually be used and not forgotten in a few months
@gordonquickstad
2 жыл бұрын
It'd be interesting to know what the nominal voltage of the cell is, the discharge curve, and the charging rate and protocol.
@MrVitamincpp
2 жыл бұрын
we've been listening to breakthrough battery technologies for more than 20 years :)
@vaakdemandante8772
2 жыл бұрын
Hmm.. 6 years.. 6 years to market might be short but I would imagine that it should be possible to create a prototype / proof of concept battery to have something to show for in months rather than years. If they truly jumped over the biggest hurdle in Li-S battery than I don't see any reason for not focusing all energy on producing a standard cell for demo purposes. You don't have to understand tech to use it. I get they are scientist and it's their job to understand things but business does not need that. It just needs a product that works. Show to business that a battery can be built and they will shower you with all the money necessary for funding research work needed for full understanding. Otherwise this tech might just never be viable for real-world use because somebody will get there sooner with a different solution and just take all the market to a different direction. Those things happened in the past. Build a demo battery ASAP.
@DailyLifeSolution
2 жыл бұрын
तुमचे म्हणणे योग्य आहे.
@thecocktailian2091
2 жыл бұрын
Runaway business is in large part howe we are here today. It is critical to understand something fully, full stop.
@jlrutube1312
2 жыл бұрын
@@thecocktailian2091 Actually, you don't have to understand absolutely everything about something to use it. We still don't understand how light in some ways acts like particles and in other ways like waves.
@muche6321
2 жыл бұрын
These things also happened in the past: - a tech we used but didn't understand fully - freons, - a tech we understood and used anyway despite the negative consequences - leaded gasoline.
@jlrutube1312
2 жыл бұрын
@@muche6321 True but I wasn't saying start selling it... I was just saying make a demo battery and start testing it.
@garynorthtruro
2 жыл бұрын
Outstanding ! The search for a better battery continues.
@RayDusso
2 жыл бұрын
With the kind of challenges still ahead. 5 to 6 years seems like an optimistic number to not scare investors.
@chickensoldier9790
2 жыл бұрын
Well of course it is, how do you develop a technology without money.
@stealthg35infiniti94
2 жыл бұрын
I love how some people promote Battery powered cars as solution to pollution but are silent on the mass contamination of the extraction/production/disposal of the batteries. It's the old story, as long as the contamination does not happen in my backyard, I don't care. If I don't know about it, it doesn't happen.
@theinquiringminded6952
2 жыл бұрын
This has become my favorite channel! Terrific content!
@andrewradford3953
2 жыл бұрын
Monash university also have a lithium sulfur battery they have been developing for a few years. Be great to see several sulfur cell technologies make it commercial production.
@caesertullo1824
2 жыл бұрын
this is the first news about batteries and clean renewable energy that doesn't sound like they are stretching the truth. I remember a few years ago a bunch of channels were saying the same thing that lithium ion tech has pretty much peaked and looking for reasonable alternatives was going to be very hard.
@mockingbird187
2 жыл бұрын
This is super exciting stuff. Just put in an order for an Aptera... just imagining being able to have the 1000 mile range battery option, yet have the pack weigh half of what the 250 mile does! Amazing!
@michaelsparks3573
2 жыл бұрын
I like the concept, but until I see this new technology hit the market I have to remain guarded. One Gentleman said he thought fossil fuel big wig were throwing us a curve ball, and I'm not convinced that he is wrong. The next couple of years will tell. If they come up with another battery that's supposed to be just as good or better I will still be guarded. This technology must come from outside sources, but big oil has a very long reach. Remember how Nikola Tesla did even make it into the history books. Well that's likely because of big oil and wall street. Oh please lord let something good finally happen with energy in this world! Thanks for a fantastic presentation!
@michaelgasperik4319
2 жыл бұрын
2 questions: 1] is the voltage per cell close to the cell voltage of li-ion? 2] would these require a similar "smart charger" like CC/CV? I'm always building things, just trying to see if I'll need to start learning new technology for these new batteries in the coming years.
@jannepeltonen2036
2 жыл бұрын
8 times the capacity for the same weight would mean that our club's electric aircraft would change from a traffic circuit trainer toy to something you could actually use to travel cross-country. And that would be really cool.
@InkubusGames
2 жыл бұрын
Serbs are really divided about many things, but when it came to RioTinto and mining Lithium, in a small country that still heavily relies on the agriculture, so many people united and made biggest protests in recent history.
@acf2802
2 жыл бұрын
All battery technology is vaporware until it's in my phone. Tired of hearing about "breakthroughs" and 10 years later it's still nowhere to be found.
@Cadiangrunt99
2 жыл бұрын
I'm thankful you brought up human misery in the current supply chain sir. People need to be aware of that...
@unclenogbad1509
2 жыл бұрын
Sodium sulphide was actually touted as far back as the '70s as a much-lighter replacement for lead/acid in cars. At the time, it couldn't match the overall performance, hence we're currently still stuck with the old heavyweights. I'd always thought, tho, that the system had potential, and now - big thanks for this video - Cinderella may just be going to the ball. Really look forward to developments in the next few years.
@batmandeltaforce
2 жыл бұрын
Every year there is some new groundbreaking battery tech... that we never realize:)
@marcguindon8499
4 ай бұрын
I've been following Li-Sulfur battery development since Oxis in 2014. I can say this is a credible breakthrough. The next challenge will be the upscaling, and the patent rights.
@chuckeynewkirk199
2 жыл бұрын
We need to get this together fast!
@chieftech714
2 жыл бұрын
I AM LOVING...Innovation will save our planet, create a better future and get us off oil....for good.
@benaguilar1787
2 жыл бұрын
I worked in a Li-ion battery research lab for some time in the mid-2010s. At that time one of the big problems with sulfur batteries, in addition to the SEI formation, was the volumetric change when charging and discharging. The sulfur nanoparticles expand up to 4x (if I remember correctly) their volume when lithiated, much more than MCN chemistries. My guess is that these prototype batteries are single layer cells where the volumetric expansion is not a worry. But I would like to know how (or if) they plan on addressing the sulfur expansion in tightly packed 18650 cells. Or maybe this unique structure also addresses that problem, I don't know. But the fact that they don't mention addressing this problem is suspicious to me.
@lacucaracha111111
2 жыл бұрын
I still remember NiCd and NiMh Batteries in RC being a thing, then came LiPo and Fe. If Lithium-Sulfur is another jump like that EVs and a backup storage for renewables might be within reach
@chrisjefferis1930
2 жыл бұрын
LiS on the asx are doing something similar to Lyten too. They are a university startup spinoff with ongoing research ties. GMG are also interesting but different.
@user-hl8tq8uw2b
2 жыл бұрын
Given the shortage of storage for green generation, why not put up some larger-scale test to see how these perform in the real-world vs waiting multiple years to get them into the aerospace applications, etc where safety/reliability requirements are exponentially higher?
@lazytommy0
2 жыл бұрын
I'm super excited for the coming innovations of batteries and power cells
@infinitumneo840
2 жыл бұрын
I think it's interesting that sulfur can be an option in battery development. Sulfur was one of the key elements in the quest for the philosopher stone long ago. The studying of new technologies in chemistry and even physics will immensely help to create spinoff industries that will transform the ways we can use energy more efficiently.
@electricalychalanged4911
2 жыл бұрын
the problem with sulfur is the humungus Breathing of the kathode I wonder how they manage the issue.
@ronaldroberts7221
2 жыл бұрын
Sulfur is removed from crude oil when refining fuels, and then a small precise percentage is added to diesel fuel. This leaves a huge amount of leftover sulfur that is very abundant and cheap.
@wise_potatoe
2 жыл бұрын
Solid state batteries and this sulfur one are my current favorites
@michaelfelder2640
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for translation into comprehensive words.
@global-hellsorosshjt5469
2 жыл бұрын
You should've advised viewers to turn on Closed Captioning beforehand because the audio is full of mutes, delays and errors. Missed the sulfur process altogether, had to go back and repeat with captioning to understand.
@NorthernKitty
2 жыл бұрын
Wow... I was already impressed with the prospect of Lithium-Sulfur batteries when you mentioned it may be possible to use Sodium instead of Lithium. THAT would be a miraculous development - suddenly, desalinating ocean water for drinking water isn't an expense it's a revenue stream while relying on a much safer and cheaper resource for the anode. Wow. Crossing my fingers they succeed!
@bkrharold
2 жыл бұрын
This reminded me of my high school chemistry, the allotropes or different physical forms of Sulphur. Allotropes are different physical forms of an element in which the atoms combine together differently, giving each stable allotrope unique physical properties. Who could have predicted, this could be used to make a better battery? Amazing. Perhaps this discovery could become a new field of research for new uses for Sulphur and other elements with multiple allotropes, taking advantage of their unique physical properties.
@mohannair5671
2 жыл бұрын
Wish all of them an early success
@Borderlands808
2 жыл бұрын
So much new battery technology out there but, we NEVER see them come to stores. 😳🤦🏽♂️
@blind9376
2 жыл бұрын
ASX:LIS are making big truck batteries with this tech with large swappable batteries in Australia.
@tedsmith6137
2 жыл бұрын
Listening and comprehending your presentation is WAY easier when I drop the speed to .75.
@squoblat
2 жыл бұрын
I've been thinking about using water tanks as energy storage. You need water storage to be off grid anyway, you just need one tank at the bottom of a hill and another tank at the top. When you've got excess generation you can pump the water to the top tank, then when you need a boost, let it flow back down through a turbine. The main issue will be head height, but there are types of turbine that don't need a huge amount of gravity potential difference.
@Atanu
2 жыл бұрын
@Koss Billingham I'm thinking that perhaps nuclear fission could be used for generating energy. Take a suitable heavy element (perhaps Uranium 235) and split it, releasing energy that can be captured to produce steam that would run electric turbines. Scientists and engineers should work on this idea. It will save the planet. (Perhaps I should patent this idea.)
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