A few comments about cavalry uses, yes many countries still outfitted troops on horse back with lever actions. It made sense because it was easier to use on horse back, but even then they were eventually replaced with cavalry carbines that were also bolt action, or shorter rifles. Something something, tool that fits the job. Reason stripper clips weren’t involved here was many bolt actions were tube fed or involved loading one at a time during the first adoptions of bolt action rifles. Once mannlichers and the G98 came out it was just one more thing that made it superior for military use. There are maybe a couple more reasons for the change, but it’s a 60 second video. Also that Mauser I’m showing doesn’t fire smokeless spitzer rounds. It fires 11mm mauser, a rounded black powder cartridge. Spitzer rounds took a little time to show the advantages, it was however ANOTHER reason bolt actions were there to stay but they came after the adoption of bolt actions in general. And yes, higher calibers were suitable for bolt actions. Part two clearing up some misconceptions kzitem.infobooZNbedqWg?feature=share
@PvtEd
Жыл бұрын
I am really starting to like the logic of your videos. Start with just enough material to let the comments fill in the blanks. I always think you forgot something and I'll find it in the comments.
@MarcillaSmith
Жыл бұрын
While the others make sense, as prior service, the third reason was what immediately jumped into my head.
@ironmatic1
Жыл бұрын
Problem with this video. Lever action repeaters, with the exception of the Winchester 1895 (which isn't even what people think of when they think lever action) were never used in mass numbers in military service. You can't replace something that wasn't there to begin with. Bolt action rifles replaced the single shot breechloader.
@southronjr1570
Жыл бұрын
The argument could also be made for the Winchester 1895. It was lever action and took stripper clips, even a few were made in 30-03 and then the 30-06 cartridges. Their great downfall was 2 fold, penny pincher accountant generals didn't like them because their rate of fire was hire than the bolt actions and their mechanism was less durable to being fired when then guns were used in very muddy conditions. These were the same arguments made by the detractors of repeaters since their first developments. As for accuracy, lever actions can and are just as accurate as bolt actions of the day.
@SegaSaturnMonk
Жыл бұрын
I would have figured the two main reasons were 1. Cost and 2. Power. Full size cartridges were too powerful for the lever actions.
@spookysockmonkey4605
Жыл бұрын
Yeah, but, cowboys and shit.
@obscuredsanity
Жыл бұрын
makes sense to me
@drazoric2275
Жыл бұрын
Now yer talkin ma language bawh!
@murphy7801
Жыл бұрын
As I European I don't have the love of lever action. But a beautiful bolt action has a place in my heart.
@dynamic379
Жыл бұрын
@@murphy7801Yeah but as he said, cowboys and shit.
@ChadKakashi
Жыл бұрын
You’re right!
@ryzekiv7147
Жыл бұрын
“Lever-actions are cooler.” -Tsun Tsu, Art of War
@thatgoose9705
Жыл бұрын
"No, I don't think so." - Obi Wan Karabiner
@jackmrsich3178
Жыл бұрын
“I-I uh I like ice cream.” -Joe Biden
@Tinkletwisterthe3rd
Жыл бұрын
“I will build a bigger wall then you Joe” -Donald Trump
@solorollo9756
Жыл бұрын
“He’s a nice kid, but he’s got cats” -guy at my job
@comradekenobi6908
Жыл бұрын
@@thatgoose9705 hello there
@BallBatteryReligion
Жыл бұрын
Great points, very valid, one small problem: lever action go yee-haw 🤠
@JaggedElk
Жыл бұрын
yeah lever actions really yee that haw better than any other gun
@dirtyaznstyle4156
Жыл бұрын
Still arent gonna go yeehawing up on a couple of guys with sharps or Spencer’s
@fishlife1013
Жыл бұрын
@Jagged i dunno the sharps rifles and krag Jorgensen rifles made yee haws die pretty hard
@fishlife1013
Жыл бұрын
@@dirtyaznstyle4156 the sprncer is pretty close to most lever guns now if the lever guns are 1895 lever actions in 30-40 kreg you might have a formidable appointment
@williamwiltrose1054
10 ай бұрын
@dirtyaznstyle4156 depends on if you're gonna sling lead out in the open, in a posse, or in the bush. Also, lever lead is cheaper and can probably fit your six shooter too.
@sneekycheeky7362
Жыл бұрын
Also don’t forget with the introduction of stripper clips the reloading time and fire rate both improved noticeably over the lever action
@VintageWarfare
Жыл бұрын
Absolutely this is as well
@TheDragonGamerTV
Жыл бұрын
@@VintageWarfare What about M1895 Winchester? Especially the Russian contract guns. Best of both worlds. Stripper clip reloading and lever action rate of fire. I wonder why people always forget about it when the Bolt action vs Lever action argument gets brought up.
@VintageWarfare
Жыл бұрын
@@TheDragonGamerTV Russians were different in the fact they had to buy whatever they could get at the time on top of their mosins. Cavalry still used lever actions as well.
@TheDragonGamerTV
Жыл бұрын
@@VintageWarfare You're right. But what I am implying is that it IS technically a gun that can be brought up in the argument. You get the best of both worlds, but it is technically a lever action so it, it my opinion, says that a lever action is slightly better than a bolt gun. I find it easier to use a lever than a bolt anyway. So it takes the cake for me on which is better. And on the whole Russian ordering anything they could get there hands on. I have a feeling any soldier, cavalry or not, that got their hands on one of those Winchesters can say that the action is 100x smoother. (I've shot a few Mosins from a few different countries, and they haven't been the greatest) (I would also hate to be the poor infantryman that got one of those Italian black-powder rifles)
@VintageWarfare
Жыл бұрын
@@TheDragonGamerTV I don’t think you are wrong as to what is better. I think what you are not crediting is the Russians were more of a “good enough” kind of weapons culture rather than “it has to be excellent” sorta deal
@thevillager8339
Жыл бұрын
Vintage warfare giving valid reasons for why nobody chose lever actions Me: “But cow boy gun go “chick-chick”
@jakeplumber1373
Жыл бұрын
*bolt actions. Got it mixed up
@_wanted_outlaw3007
Жыл бұрын
@@jakeplumber1373 no bolt actions go chick chick chick chick see you get two extra chicks beacuse you unload the round and load the round lift the bolt and pull the bolt down each one of those actions has a chick, with the lever action there's only two motions up and down. So chick chick.
@_wanted_outlaw3007
Жыл бұрын
@@jakeplumber1373 each hand motion has a chick there's no possible way a lever action could have more than two as you obviously know a lever action takes 2 hand motions. Up/down similar to a shotgun forward/back. Bolt actions have all the motions combined which adds up to four motions which makes four chicks.
@dutchvanderbilt9969
Жыл бұрын
That is correct
@ryangshooter_1682
Жыл бұрын
He makes some good points However 1of the main reasons The us army of the eighteen hundreds Kept a single shot rifle for so long Over the lever actions Was because of supply lines They were scared Troops would use up ammunition to quickly And then They would be completely out of ammo for Weeks or months This didn't stop troops from purchasing winchesters on their own though Many still did and preferred to carry that .
@dthunter2506rem
Жыл бұрын
One MAJOR difference that was not mentioned in the video is that the bolt action is a significantly stronger design, allowing larger, higher pressure cartridges to be utilized. Thus increasing effective range potential.
@HerpaDurpVg
10 ай бұрын
I would argue that’s the MAIN reason.
@edwalmsley1401
9 ай бұрын
100% the number 1 reason
@spiritofnex
9 ай бұрын
This. I was actually shocked he didn't mention this. I'd honestly be shocked if someone got a 7.62x54r, 8mm Mauser, or a .30-06 lever action working reliably, and with safe chamber pressures, and not being extremely overbuilt compared to equivalent performing bolt action rifle.
@edwalmsley1401
9 ай бұрын
@@spiritofnex Winchester managed it rather well in 7.52x54R in the model 1895 for the Russians during ww1 but even by 1895 the world's militarys had been well equipped with various magazine bolt actions in small bore calibers for almost a decade
@priestesslucy3299
9 ай бұрын
@@spiritofnexis 30.06 really _that much higher pressure_ than 308?
@BeanMachine360
Жыл бұрын
Insert meme about Jeremy Clarkson "this is brilliant, but i like this" favoring the lever action, here:
@themanthedan8710
Жыл бұрын
hey it's the gun from Fortnite they copied Fortnite 🤣😂🤣
@wauweau
Жыл бұрын
@@themanthedan8710satire right?
@Theredknight252
Жыл бұрын
@@wauweaugod I hope so
@Theredknight252
Жыл бұрын
Winchester 1895 full barrel verrient that Russia used in ww1 I can’t remember if we ever used it
@joshuamoore3846
11 ай бұрын
Naw, the bolt action is better in every way.
@brantmartin4469
Жыл бұрын
I'll pick a lever on a horse anyday, however.
@zathary564
Жыл бұрын
I'll pick off the horse from a bush though
@brantmartin4469
Жыл бұрын
I meant for saddle shooting, but okay?
@rebelrat3594
Жыл бұрын
@@zathary564 I'll get you with my squirrel carbine made by henry
@gratefulguy4130
Жыл бұрын
I was going to say this. They really didn't seem to appreciate the utility of a pistol caliber carbine. So it was tiny bolt carbine or multiple pistols. Sometimes both. Ironic because they were also so obsessed with only providing one cartridge for everything due to logistics.
@TheLurker1647
Жыл бұрын
Maxim gun go brrrrr
@ronkay1573
9 ай бұрын
Spitzer bullets in bolt-actions vs flat-nose bullets in levers also was a tremendous advantage.
@michaeldvorak5556
8 ай бұрын
This is the major issue. You Need flat-nose bullets in the tube magazine if you don't want the recoil to ignite you bullets. This greatly reduces you range.
@dylanhealy8126
8 ай бұрын
Was about to say this since not a lot of people seem to be mentioning it. This and being easier/simpler to manufacture are why Bolts beat Levers, IMO.
@Dimetropteryx
8 ай бұрын
Solved in the Winchester model 1895.
@michaeldvorak5556
8 ай бұрын
@@Dimetropteryx correct. That's why I specified "tube" magazine. For me, the tube magazine just looks better. It's feels right.
@VincitOmniaVeritas7
8 ай бұрын
Not until the creation of polymer point bullets at least. Hornady’s LEVERevolution ammo is safe to be used in magazine tubes since the polymer tip won’t detonate the primer on the next round under recoil.
@warmonger2500
Жыл бұрын
Elegant vs simplicity.
@omargerardolopez3294
Жыл бұрын
Both are elegant, it's more about style
@biohazard_the_potato_muncher
Жыл бұрын
@@omargerardolopez3294 I feel is a little bit more about fire rate, theres some competitive shoters that use a level action rifle like a semi auto
@warmonger2500
Жыл бұрын
@@omargerardolopez3294 style and probably more about cost.
@yulusleonard985
Жыл бұрын
@@biohazard_the_potato_muncher More about bayonet charge. Already mentioned in the video, bayonet charge prefer one piece stock. Also reloading for rapid fire can be problem with lever action. You can shoot rapidly but limited to 10 rounds of 38 spec instead continuous full cartridge for bolt action.
@biohazard_the_potato_muncher
Жыл бұрын
@@yulusleonard985 well there was high capacity lever actions but reloading was a really serious problem and if im not wrong there was a few speed loaders but they weren't that reliable and were extremily annoying to carry around compared to clips
@Kira121086
Жыл бұрын
We all like the lever action because of how Arnie handled the shotgun in T2.
@WSNight-
Жыл бұрын
Us gen x like them from Westerns .
@chunkymonkey8750
Жыл бұрын
I like them from rdr2
@demoths
Жыл бұрын
For me, it's Tallahassee's sawed off lever action from Zombieland
@demoths
Жыл бұрын
And yes I know it's from wanted dead or alive but I'm not a boomer soooo
@ytsn_THE_OG
Жыл бұрын
I like them better because I like the way they feel in my hand.... I actually prefer shooting lever action
@stevetarrant3898
9 ай бұрын
I've had my lever action Winchester 30-30 for 40 years. Never had a problem.
@666toysoldier
8 ай бұрын
And you never used it in combat in miserable conditions.
@JeffHenry-cq3is
7 ай бұрын
Carry it around like a soldier Then fire off a basic load now and again
@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812
7 ай бұрын
yes , I've never seen one function improperly tbh. however it's not a practical combat rifle. its best for a small number of possibly moving targets. but you better hit them all before it's time to reload. and ideally targets which are not shooting back at you.
@0utIaw.
3 ай бұрын
@@666toysoldier Well even if it's not that much different compared to a bolt action.
@TheAnnoyingBoss
2 ай бұрын
@@666toysoldierwhy would he bro
@davidhoffman6980
Жыл бұрын
I never understood that when I was a kid. All I could think was "the lever action holds twice as much ammo, is easier to shoot, and can be shot faster."
@markchidester6239
Жыл бұрын
Depends on the round. My Marlin 30-30 holds six. IDK what it would hold in .44mag, definitely more.
@happyjohn354
Жыл бұрын
@@markchidester6239 it would simplify supply lines as well imagine an entire army back then using nothing but .357 magnum or .45 colt
@justachannel8600
Жыл бұрын
You only learn to appreciate paperwork and bills as you get older.
@davidhoffman6980
Жыл бұрын
@@happyjohn354 Hi. .357-magnum wasn't invented till 1934. Modern lever action guns can be chambered in .357-magnum but not the 19th century ones.
@happyjohn354
Жыл бұрын
@@davidhoffman6980 your right they had .38 though
@Helperbot-2000
Жыл бұрын
man, those nice mechanical sounds are beautiful
@bobhill3941
Жыл бұрын
I couldn't agree more, I can still hear dad cycling his Model 88 to this day😓
@TheAnnoyingBoss
2 ай бұрын
Lever guns are like a fallout player maxed on charisma.
@joeym5243
8 ай бұрын
The introduction to "The Rifleman" would never be as cool if he was using a bolt action
@virgilmcmath6363
8 ай бұрын
the whole of the rifleman show would have been different without the lever action half the point of mcain is that he can fire faster than someone with a handgun while keeping his accuracy
@KingofKings454
4 ай бұрын
@@virgilmcmath6363If you're using a rifle for close distances, you're doing it wrong.
@georgewhitworth9742
Ай бұрын
I doubt that, cause you're using something you already have an emotion connection to and memory of and comparing it to something that you've either not thought about or have discounted entirely because of the aforementioned reasons. If The Rifleman did use a bolt action, you'd probably argue that's what made the show unique and amazing compared to the other westerns of the time, and that the directors knew of the superiority of the bolt actions and thats why they went with it.
@booi1579
Ай бұрын
That the show that got me into lever action riffles and laramie and death valley put me on to quick gunslinging revolvers
@thesaiyanking85
Жыл бұрын
Me pointing at a bolt action: this is amazing, but I like this Me pointing at a lever action: 😊
@kasuraga
Жыл бұрын
I feel this lol The bolt action has a lot of perks, but lever actions are just cool haha
@gardenthefermentingsound6218
Жыл бұрын
Lever action just looks awesome lol
@xmlthegreat
Жыл бұрын
Took the words right out of my mouth
@jeffreygao3956
3 ай бұрын
The bolt action has stronger rounds.
@Mr_Winster
Жыл бұрын
"I want an official Red Ryder Carbine Action 200-shot Range Model Air Rifle!" -Ralphie
@danbardos3498
Жыл бұрын
With a compass in the stock!
@professionalcommentstealer5271
Жыл бұрын
No, you'll shoot your eye out
@mikebougiamas3418
11 ай бұрын
You’ll shoot your eye out!
@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259
9 ай бұрын
Mine wasn't an air rifle.
@chrisa7650
8 ай бұрын
Underated
@everydaycarrymonkey2691
Жыл бұрын
Bolt action gets the trenchfoot. Lever action gets the "nymphs du prairie"...🤠
@vroomkaboom108
Жыл бұрын
*Lumbago
@SM-zz4gx
Жыл бұрын
Levers, as much as I love them, are also much more prone to wear out parts than a bolt. A bolt action has a bolt that rotates and slides back and forth whereas a lever not only has a sliding bolt, but several pins and hinge points that are going to see much more wear in comparison.
@misterkaos.357
Жыл бұрын
One thing you can do with a lever action that you can't with a bolt action, is drill a hole in the trigger guard section of the lever and add a screw that strikes the trigger every time the lever is reset, essentially making it a slam-fire rifle. That way you can shoot just like _The Rifleman!_
@fishlife1013
Жыл бұрын
Or like the guy from once apon a time in the west
@tzar9395
11 ай бұрын
@@fishlife1013 Awesome movie.
@georgewhitworth9742
11 ай бұрын
So essentially make it even more useless, lol
@SergeantExtreme
10 ай бұрын
@@georgewhitworth9742 Yes, semi-auto firing is completely useless.
@MadFox-jr6by
10 ай бұрын
Also much easier to negligent discharge into he floor or your foot as you close the action with your finger in there.
@thereindeertherabbitthebat592
Жыл бұрын
Could get more versatility using different bullet profiles in bolt guns, with the ability to stack rounds vertically, folks could utilize pointed spritzer shaped projectiles with better BCs. Although there were plenty of acceptions, the old tube mags of lever guns were limited to the more traditional flat point projectiles to prevent out of batt detonations in the mag tube, due to factors like recoil, excessive abuse in the field or even debris btwn cartridges & what not. IDK, just a thought. Love me some old rifles. Cool short, thanks for sharing.
@sethmullins8346
Жыл бұрын
winchester 1895 had a box mag and clip guide
@robertharris6092
Жыл бұрын
Lebel used spitzer bullets just fine with a tube mag. Id say the biggest issue is your omly option is to load 1 bullet at a time and you have no access to something like a stripper clip or detachable magazines.
@robertharris6092
Жыл бұрын
@@sethmullins8346 it also doesnt seem to operate as fast as classic lever actions. At that point id just getva straight pull bolt action.
@pinocolada4254
Жыл бұрын
@@robertharris6092however the level case was really tapered and had a rim, to make sure the bullet points laid flat in the tube, only contact with rim of the cartridge in front of it. Also ww1 soldiers used it in single shot mode, they didn't take the time to load up the whole tube in the heat of battle. But she is hot, isn't she😏
@Bhartrampf
Жыл бұрын
I think you forgot about the rotary magazine like savage 99
@emmanuelotamendi9583
Жыл бұрын
I LOVE these kind of videos where I start with "oh yeah why did they do that" and then in every point I go. "Why yes that makes perfect sense"
@iivin4233
Жыл бұрын
His points may be wrong though. The reason few countries adopted lever actions for infantry use is that lever actions are not strong enough to handle the calibres armies wanted their infantry to use. That and the largest armies at the time, those of France and Germany, already had single shot bolt actions that they thought they could convert into magazine fed rifles. You can watch a channel CandR Arsenal. They produced a series with actual research that covers almost every lever gun issued in WW1. Forgotten Weapons likewise has covered the developmental history of lever guns. That history ends with the 1897 Winchester which could handle rifle calibers. Bolt actions were in wide use by that time though. There are other reasons this short is probably wrong. If you're interested I could share those. The bolt action's story is long and complicated.
@chrthiel
Жыл бұрын
@@iivin4233 I mean, he's not wrong though. The reasons he give are all entirely valid and they did factor in to the decision making, especially the cost part, they just weren't the primary reasons
@iivin4233
Жыл бұрын
@@chrthiel You're right. I think it's misleading not to mention the main reason along with the other considerations though. Misleading not malicious. I was thinking he's not wrong but his reasons are a little anachronistic.
@gaychainsaw646
Жыл бұрын
but deep inside, you still don't understand cuz you're a cowboy
@daegnaxqelil2733
Жыл бұрын
a fast effective answer
@winged_destro
11 ай бұрын
Counterpoint: with a Winchester 1895 Russian contract you can pretend to be a badass Siberian cowboy
@spoonsareoccasionallymadeo5728
8 ай бұрын
I can't stop thinking of Mongol cowboys now.
@Moeflyer6213
7 ай бұрын
It was because Tsar Russia didn't have enough number of their Mosin-Nagant M1891 bolt-actionr rifles for their troops to fight the Germans
@andrewharrington7435
Жыл бұрын
Don't forget the bayonet. The bolt action is much easier to stick a bayonet on. You would also have to make the lever action stock stronger to stop it breaking (but it can be done- see the Martini Henry). Bayonet fighting is very important in 19th century wars.
@blessedwithchallenges9917
9 ай бұрын
Bayonet fighting is brutal...
@slippinjimmy6568
2 ай бұрын
Winchester did make military versions of their lever action rifles that could take bayonets.
@Garydasnaill
4 күн бұрын
Winchester 1895 is a lever action that Russian used in ww1 and it used a bayonet
@johncurtis5367
3 ай бұрын
Don't forget the most important thing! Lever action ammo is in a tube putting front of bullet right behind primer of other bullet. If you fall or take a spill it can explode and it has many times!!!
@TheAnnoyingBoss
2 ай бұрын
Except they dont
@thelastjohnwayne8726
9 күн бұрын
How is a flat nosed bullet with a surface area bigger than the primer of the other bullet (in front) going to have enough force and miraculously shrink to strike that primer?
@leonardticsay8046
Жыл бұрын
That bolt action is sexy af.
@player-mv7th
Жыл бұрын
Nah man lever action is underrated, look at that sexy beast. Such a fun and satisfying motion for cycling the round
@leonardticsay8046
Жыл бұрын
@@player-mv7th it’s got it’s place for heavier cartridges like 45-70, and I do believe the hype about being more accurate shooting through heavy brush.
@agentpaper8130
Жыл бұрын
@@player-mv7th Eh different tastes. I personally like bolt action better. Bolt action just handles better for me and I just like them. This is basically a debate of turkey subs and ham sandwiches though.
@kot0472
Жыл бұрын
@@leonardticsay8046 Heavier but much slower and shorter range. Pistol-like.
@QualityPen
Жыл бұрын
With the wonders of modern technology, you can have a lever action in .308 Winchester, 6.5 Creedmore, or 5.56 NATO. Probably even some others. Look up the Henry Long Ranger.
@Nickster63
Жыл бұрын
I remember thinking about this when I was learning about WW1 at school, a lever action seemed more convenient to use than a bolt action. Thank you for answering a question I'd had floating around my head for a while now 😀
@DGneoseeker1
Жыл бұрын
And it is. Just don't lie down.
@andrewshaw1571
Жыл бұрын
Convenient in imaginary circumstances. im afraid. Firing from horseback was largely out of date by ww1, it was out of date by the 2nd boer war, prompting the lever action carbines replacement with the bolt action smle. In short, if you can hit an infantry sized target from horseback with a lever action rifle, the infantryman with his bolt action could have hit your horseman sized target much easier a good 100 metres ago. By the boer war, the horse carrys the shooter where he wants to go, he dismounts and shoots, rifles are too accurate for american wild west tactics to work reliably by that time. So the cavalryman must be able to match the infantry in range, effectively deleting most lever action rifles from the discussion.
@fishlife1013
Жыл бұрын
@@spoopy9689 ww1 the spitzer bullet had not yet been commonly made yet
@Megafragger_
10 ай бұрын
The Russians did use a variant of the Winchester M1896 that could be fed with mosin stripper clips
@michaelwarenycia7588
10 ай бұрын
@@fishlife1013 not true. You need to do more research. All the main armies of ww1 (french, British, German, American and Russian) were using Spitzer ammo by around 1905 or so and definitely in their service rifles and MG's in ww1. The only countries not using Spitzer ammo in the first world war were Austria, Italy and some minor players.
@Mibit911
9 ай бұрын
Once bolt actions got the addition of box magazines it was gameover. Being able to use longer spitzer style rounds without the chance of detonation and the ability to charge with clips.
@TheAnnoyingBoss
2 ай бұрын
But the key is wild west guns are using wild west cartridges. You may complain sure but for me tis only staying consistent with the vibe
@theprofessional155
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for bringing up the prone point. So many people forget that. Its why armies didn't use them during World War 1 at least not as standard issue. The lever action wouldn't be great in the mud of world war 1 and needing to hit the floor quickly and shoot and manipulate the bolt. The lever action traditionally was better for cavalry but as cavalry got phased out after World War 1 it lost that advantage. The American rough riders made great use of them in the Spanish American war.
@larrynason8716
Жыл бұрын
Dont forget the American Indians. Big advance for them over bow and arrow.
@Gunsbeerfreedom87
Жыл бұрын
Almost all cavalry in Europe and Asia used revolvers or melee weapons.
@nirfz
Жыл бұрын
Bolt actions are easier to clean too. Something militaries are always keen on. Apart from some very early ones you usually didn't need a screwdriver to be able to clean the most important moving parts. (no sideplate removal needed)
@catchanka667
Жыл бұрын
Ian from forgotten weapons (or was it on inrange tv?) did a mud test on the winchester 1895 and it surprisingly ran reliably tho.
@thatemocat
Жыл бұрын
Oh wtf hi professional. I didn’t expect seeing you here
@wildmanhistory
Жыл бұрын
Also when spitzer style cartridges were introduced, they often were not compatible with the stereotypical lever action’s tubular magazine (as the bullet would seat itself on the next round’s primer). There are exceptions like the Lebel rifle but i imagine it was just far more convenient to do away with the tube style all together
@robertharris6092
Жыл бұрын
The issue then is lack of stripper clips or derachable magazines. Loading 8/9 cartridges into a lebel takes forever vs 10 in an SMLE.
@Gunsbeerfreedom87
Жыл бұрын
Spitzer ammo didn't see mass adoption before 1906, long long long after lever actions had been disqualified from mass issue.
@ericbest9562
Жыл бұрын
I'm glad someone else knows this, I kept waiting for it to be on the video but it wasn't mentioned.
@wildmanhistory
Жыл бұрын
@@robertharris6092 true but magazine cut offs were standard issue for most bolt action rifles until WW1 proved their obsolescence. I don’t think Rifleman doctrine at the time was as concerned about rapid reloading until they were truly tested by the trench and assault tactics of the Great War
@AtrociousAK47
Жыл бұрын
Winchester did make a stripper clip fed, full size, spitzer rifle round version of their venerable lever gun, in the form of the model 1895, but it kinda came too late to see any widespread interest, with only the russians buying them, mostly out of necessity, as they were losing so many guns to wartime attrition, that they were buying anything and everything they could get their hands on. the vast majority of lever guns were simple small caliber carbines, often chambered in the same caliber as the user's six shooter, and incapable of handling full size rifle rounds such as .30-30 and .45-70. While rifles chambered in such calibers did eventually come out, by that point interest in lever guns had largely waned in favor of bolt actions, especially in a military capacity. Interest in lever guns didnt pick up again till more the half a century later in the 1960's with the advent of spaghetti westerns and cowboy action shooting.
@jeremykeckler3267
Жыл бұрын
Spitzer round was a factor as well. Pointed bullet, accuracy at distance. Cant load those in a tube. ( well you could, but...)
@Furluge
9 ай бұрын
True, but there's no reason the design inherently had to stick with a tube either. They could have just have easily been made with stripper clips or box magazines. You can buy box magazine levers right now. It's just no one did it back then. Probably because those round bullets were still very popular. I really think the cost and ease of repair trumps everything else when we're talking about a military.
@TimeSurfer206
8 ай бұрын
@@Furluge Well, there was also the change in warfare from Calvary to Tanks and Infantry. As a former Dogface, I preferred the bolt when lying in mud.
@Dimetropteryx
8 ай бұрын
Winchester solved that problem in the model 1895.
@T7_H3rbz
7 ай бұрын
I disagree. The 8 mm Lebel was one of the first multi-show bolt actions that come on the scene and address this issue. Also most bolt action military rifles were adopted with a round nose bullet in Spencer didn't come around until bolt actions had well established their dominance
@Garydasnaill
4 күн бұрын
Yes exactly and he said prone to malfunction I’ve had many lever guns don’t ever have to clean them and they never jammed or anything but my bolt guns would have hiccups if I treated them the same
@machinedragonnero7740
Жыл бұрын
Talk about a subvert and expectations. Honestly I had never heard anyone sing the Praises of bolt action but this was pretty good and great information. Thank you for teaching me something new I hope you have a wonderful day.
@KingTigerGuy
Жыл бұрын
The russians in WW1 though would contend that the lever gun they got, the 1895, was superior to the bolt actions they had. Due to it being built for modern bullets with stripper clip compatibility, the differences were cut down to the cost and prone awkwardness, but the reliability in adverse conditions the lever provided was really appreciated by the few that got them. It can be further argued by them being visibly worn in any pictures of troops in the trenches and the few notes on them noted how soldiers would try and grab any one they saw from a casualty.
@Kyle-fw2de
Жыл бұрын
Indeed, I'll be getting one as soon as possible to go with my M91 from 33. They are both neat rifle from Russian history, and since that was the start if my antique rifle collection, I have a special affinity for antique arms of said category. Though I am rather proud of the the French and American rifles I have as well.
@krunk28
Жыл бұрын
No they didn't think it was better. Less than 300,000 were built for them with many being rejected by the inspectors. Out of 25 different models they used only 4 were lever actions.
@tristanmyers897
Жыл бұрын
Well the 1895 lever guns made for Russians use were ordered, like many guns of world war one used by the Russians, we're used because they had a large army but didn't have the arms to arm everyone. They were very sought after even after the war though
@yulusleonard985
Жыл бұрын
I doubt that, only 300k ordered compared to 3mil mossin and most of them ended in rear echelon trooper, and sthere are huge quantity in Finland before they destroy them eventually.
@banjillaphranks
Жыл бұрын
Then in ww2 they casually borrowed any weapon they could find from a casualty
@kevinruby9241
Ай бұрын
Reason 4: Ammunition . Lever action feeds from a tubular magazine and requires soft-nose rounds. Bolt action allows feed from the breach or a removable magazine and allows pointy bullets that fly straighter and penetrate deeper.
@whyis45stillalive
9 ай бұрын
I had a 1937 Springfield Model 15 .22lr. I fired tens of thousands of rounds through it. So much so, that i could confidently hunt anything from, deer to rabbits, and squirrels, with it. It was the most accurate weapon I ever fired. It also helped me, when i joined the Army. I never missed a target, with my M16, my entire time in service. (Eventhough, I'm left-handed.) When my medical records went missing, at the end of basic training, i was asigned as Range Cadre, on an M16 range. (I couldn't be released until my records had been recompiled.) They gave me all the guys who couldn't qualify, as a last resort. I never failed a troop. I taught them everything my grandfather, (a WWII Army vet) and that Springfield taught me.
@Djmorton-go5mt
2 ай бұрын
thats cool af brother
@georgewhitworth9742
Ай бұрын
Cool story that doesn't apply to the arguement.
@whyis45stillalive
Ай бұрын
@@georgewhitworth9742 If you knew what a Springfield Model 15 is, you wouldn’t have posted that.
@conangaming2156
Жыл бұрын
Those are both beautiful rifles.
@ctnknight5624
10 ай бұрын
We just won’t take into account the biggest reason why which was the ammo that was used. 30-06 Springfield was quite a different round than .44-40 Winchester.
@The_Conspiracy_Analyst
9 ай бұрын
Savage model 99
@Bhartrampf
Жыл бұрын
I think it mostly comes down to cost, just like during the veg of firearms in warfare. They had Wheelock's, but still outfitted their armies with matchlocks. A bolt action or single shot cost a lot less then a lever action , so with more rifles even if they were subpar, like the m91, more men would be armed. You.have to remember, Arni are funded by the lowest bidder. People can say oh this is better then that, but bottom line is what is the cheapest and easiest to make and which one takes the least amount of resources. Also, you have to remember that a lot of commanders were still off the opinion that soldiers waisted ammo. The Spencer proved that a lever action was a viable war weapon. Argue all you want, it mostly comes down to out dated tactics and cost.
@dragon12234
Жыл бұрын
Re: wheel and matchlocks. Also don't forget that as the guns were all handmade there was not that many gun makers that had the skills to make stuff like wheel locks, and more importantly: fix them when they broke. Iirc there was a gun that was like centuries ahead of its time, being a repeater in the 17th century without being too bulky... but there was only a single Danish family that knew how to make them so the only military force equipped with them was the Danish Royal Guards
@berniegores2083
Жыл бұрын
Try cleaning a lever action. You'll want a bolt action
@catchanka667
Жыл бұрын
@@berniegores2083 I saw a mud test on the Winchester 1895 and hardly any mud can get into the action, it's surprisingly reliable.
@petesheppard1709
Жыл бұрын
The bolt action is also much stronger than a lever action, so it can better contain the pressures of higher power cartridges.
@fishlife1013
Жыл бұрын
1886,1895 winchester enters the chat lemme introduce myself
@ethanlamoureux5306
Жыл бұрын
Every action is as strong as it’s designed to be. Neither bolt or lever action is inherently stronger or weaker than the other.
@georgewhitworth9742
11 ай бұрын
@@fishlife1013Still can't shoot them prone as well as bolt actions
@Bucky1836
11 ай бұрын
@@georgewhitworth9742i shoot mine laying down just fine and faster than my bolt guns
@bearpaw5675
10 ай бұрын
You know nothing about power. *Laughs in .45-70 govt*
@MrMarrok657
10 ай бұрын
Loading a lever action makes you feel like John wayne on the Prairie pilgrim
@camerapasteurize7215
Жыл бұрын
Also, while lever actions could theoretically be fired faster due to the simple up-and-down motion to load a new round, they also relied on tube magazines, which were slower to reload than a bolt action. In addition, the tube magazine meant the bullets had to be a blunt shape, like pistol ammunition, unlike the more aerodynamic pointed bolt action ammunition. This was to prevent any worries of the pointed tip hitting the primer of another bullet wrong and triggering the round.
@Beuwen_The_Dragon
9 ай бұрын
Indeed. The French found that out the hard way with the world’s very first Smokeless Powder Cartridge Rifle, the Lebel. They had to develop a new cartridge case with a special circular ‘trench” around the Primer, which was intended to rest the tip of the bullet of the cartridge behind it. This, combined with the only being able to load one cartridge at a time, while other bolt action rifles were using box magazines, removable magazines, stripper clips and Mannlicher clips, the tube magazines were a very big handicap.
@timothybayliss6680
9 ай бұрын
The Swiss used a strait pull rifle, K31, for decades. Finely made and accurate.
@Furluge
9 ай бұрын
I mean there's no reason they need to have a tube magazine. They could have just as easily been made to use stripper clips or later on box magazines. Such rifles were made later. Just no one put two and two together at the time. Likely because those round-nosed bullets were quite popular.
@The_Conspiracy_Analyst
9 ай бұрын
Savage model 99 would like a word with you
@Vnix
Жыл бұрын
M1 GARAND: "Hey guies, whats goin on here?"
@worldobserver3515
Жыл бұрын
Guys
@karlgustav999
Жыл бұрын
Krag-Jørgensen: "HeLlOö HœW Arrë Yuuů?!
@mikeburrill779
Жыл бұрын
Never seen a 30-06 Winchester
@kot0472
Жыл бұрын
It's different time period.
@lev_rzld_
Жыл бұрын
M16 : really ?
@b1ah73
8 ай бұрын
They are beautiful firearms in multiple respects
@michaeln8693
Жыл бұрын
Or when you cant decide wich one to pick just be like Russians take a lever action rifle and chamber it to shoot 7,62x54R and boom you got yourself a Winchester 1895 Russian.
@chrisjones6002
Жыл бұрын
In general bolt actions are significantly more durable and a stronger lock up. They can handle more powerful cartridges, especially during that time. Lever guns were usually a pistol caliber or close to it.
@West_desert_casserole
9 ай бұрын
86 and 94 Winchester would like a word.... The 86 used 45-90, which is just as or more powerful than the bolt action calibers of the time
@Kyle-sr6jm
9 ай бұрын
Power =/= chamber pressure Cartridge design was moving towards bottleneck, smokeless powder, higher velocity cartridges firing spitzer bullets...all things lever guns are not optimal for. Bolt actions can be made to handle higher pressures, handle Spitzer bullets, and more durable for less money
@robertdodd9623
Ай бұрын
Bolt guns are inherently stronger actions for handling more powerful cartridges. Also we moved to faster and more accurate conical bullets which can't be safely housed in a tubular magazine.
@Lunkwow
Жыл бұрын
Cartridge also, in that time period it was viewed that most engagements would be at longer ranges.
@Thoroughly_Wet
Жыл бұрын
Also the new standard in military ammunition (small bore smokeless) and strength of the lever action design coupled with the metallurgy at the time. Wasnt until 1895 with the Winchester 1895 that any lever rifle could handle the new, high pressure, spitzer bullet smokeless cartridges.
@lukasanderson4757
Жыл бұрын
Smokeless was first available in the 1894
@Thoroughly_Wet
Жыл бұрын
@@lukasanderson4757 the US adopted smokeless in 1892 with the krag Jørgenson in 30-40 krag. It didn't get to soldiers hands until 1894. Anyways smokeless was invented in 1884 and the French picked it up in 1886 and every country saw it as the future. Ergo nobody wanted stinky black powder cartridges anymore. The way a traditional Winchester lever action locks is through a toggle, not locking lugs in the receiver or at the breach face. Meaning if you chambered that style of lever gun in a high-pressure (for the time), smokeless cartridge it would more than likely break the toggle and send the bolt careening into the users face. The 1894 Winchester was able to handle the smokeless cartridges by introducing a falling cross block that locks the bolt forward when the action is closed, but was still tube fed which isn't the greatest for spitzer type rounds. The winchester 1895 brought in an even stronger action with a box magazine.
@lukasanderson4757
Жыл бұрын
@@Thoroughly_Wet interesting, I was meaning the first Winchester available in smokeless. If memory serves it was .32-20 that was available in smokeless then .30-30? I know there were about a dozen pyrotechnics around the world between 1880 and the early 1900s coming up with different formulations, before a common medium was reached. Thanks for your amazing input.
@catchanka667
Жыл бұрын
@@lukasanderson4757 Wasn't it 1886? with the Lebel?
@TwinShards
9 ай бұрын
But you can't deny the iconic abusive way of using a lever action rifle.
@TheAnnoyingBoss
2 ай бұрын
Is that why they call it the dirty 30
@marvwatkins7029
Жыл бұрын
And don't forget on the ground you can go to the next round much easier with a bolt action rifle, though they shoot slower.
@i-love-comountains3850
Жыл бұрын
This is actually very informative thank you
@andrewparker2751
9 ай бұрын
Another reason, though it may have come later: Bullet shapes and types. Lever actions fire from tubular magazines, which require soft-nosed bullets to avoid premature detonation. Hard nosed bullets can strike the primer of the round in front of them, causing the round to explode. Bolt action rifles usually have box magazines (internal or external) where the rounds are stacked, not loaded end to end, which allows for a variety of bullet types.
@nightlight0x07cc
Жыл бұрын
This is the most informative short I have ever watched, and a subject I care about. Thanks xD
@theemoTV19
Жыл бұрын
*IT HURTS MY EARS AND BREAKS MY HEART SEEING THAT*
@awesomeopossum4632
Жыл бұрын
Why
@VintageWarfare
Жыл бұрын
@@awesomeopossum4632 my guess is he thinks these rifles literally meant to bash peoples faces in and be used to dig trenches if need be will break if I dry fire them once in a video
@awesomeopossum4632
Жыл бұрын
@@VintageWarfare you mean the rifles designed to withstand tens of thousands of rounds won’t break from doing the thing they’re designed to do?
@VintageWarfare
Жыл бұрын
@@awesomeopossum4632 it’s a wild thought I know.
@Kyle-fw2de
Жыл бұрын
I inherited a 22lr with a broken firing pin. It's a 1920's break action I don't remember the name of, but I do know it took hundreds, if not thousands of dryfires before the pin broke, and that was the ONLY part to suffer damage. Though neglect has made the bore a pitted disaster, dry fire had nothing to do with that. Anyway, I replaced the pin and it runs fine, though I need to fix the bore if I want to get any decent use out of it. I'll likely have to bore it out and insert a liner given the severity of damage it has...
@jh_esports
Жыл бұрын
Counter argument: Lever action feels more badass in Video games
@georgewhitworth9742
11 ай бұрын
Oof, compelling argument.
@thegrinningplague
10 ай бұрын
No lever-actions just more badass in general
@blargblarg5657
9 ай бұрын
@@thegrinningplague I believe in the video that is a Winchester 1894 level action and it is, indeed, a more badass looking gun to shoot. Has a very satisfying kickback.
@jupitercyclops6521
8 ай бұрын
Lever action is even more bad ass in real life. Chambering rounds way faster. It's actually easier to keep your "sight picture " in any position other than prone. With bolt action you have to take one hand off the rifle to work the bolt. The lever action allows the hand to remain in contact. The kinesiology to work the lever is more fluid. Bolt action is considered the least fluid of any multiple round action. It's this reason with the fact that Bolt actions are even worse for left handers that makes the Warren report so full of shite. They want us to believe LHA fired off x rounds so fast & accurate when he was supposedly using a right handed Bolt action rifle. Let's face it, it was probably cost & simplicity of parts
@juandager5220
Жыл бұрын
The heart, Ramon... Aim for the heart...
@jayhockley8841
Жыл бұрын
But .. What if Ramon aimed for Clint's Head ?
@Erakius323
Жыл бұрын
What film is that from? I assume an old western?
@jayhockley8841
Жыл бұрын
@@Erakius323 Its either " For a Few Dollars more " or " Fistfull of Dollars " Clint Eastwood . I think its Fistfull of Dollars . Its Free on KZitem Free movies
@juandager5220
Жыл бұрын
@@Erakius323 "A fistful of dollars" There's a lever action, I think Remington. I'm more of a film guy lost in the weapons side of YT. Great movie! Don't spoil the ending.
@natelav534
17 күн бұрын
Another issue was ammunition. Around that time they discovered pointed rounds had better velocity and range than rounded bullets. Pointed bullets would jam in lever actions as well as concerns that pointed bullets would set off the primer in the long tube like magazines. Though today its debated that the extreme range of battle rifles from the era far exceeded the skill of average soldiers without optics.
@pauljnolan1000
Жыл бұрын
The video and your attached note were very informative. Thank you.
@daddydanks6660
11 ай бұрын
Another point to consider is that the lever action was never adopted officially. The bolt action replaced single shot breechloaders, not the lever action.
@BrainiLack
8 ай бұрын
That's a good point. The bolt isn't a direct upgrade to the lever, it's a different attempt at upgrading a previous design. So it never replaced the lever, it just beat it. Like how the design for the seatbelt used to be different for each car before the 3 point system got the most popular
@majinjason
8 ай бұрын
@BrainiLack it didn't even really beat it. Lever action weren't seriously considered. No soldier needed that many rounds, they likely wouldn't live long enough. And bolt action were way cheaper to buy. You don't spend lever action money on soldiers. Hell the government took forever to upgrade from black powder for the same reason. It was cheaper.
@royjohnson465
8 ай бұрын
@@majinjason~Also, a better detachable box magazine in a bolt-action "vs" an inferior tube (tubular) magazine in a lever-action.
@JTMC93
8 ай бұрын
@majinjason 5/6 years between France revealing Smokeless Powder and the Lebel for the U.S. to adopt Smokeless. For the development of a Powder, Cartridge, Small Bore Bullet, then adoption of a new rifle... That is pretty fast. If anything Repeating Arms is more apt. The U.S. didn't adopt a standard repeating rifle until the Springfield m1892. And we were one of the last major powers to adopt a smokeless rifle.
@philphlegm2549
8 ай бұрын
I was under the impression the US army adopted lever actions in the late 1800’s?
@SoulSoundMuisc
Жыл бұрын
Good short. 👍 I appreciate both, and you did a great job showing why one got phased out.
@jackbrax7808
8 ай бұрын
A thing I’m surprised you didn’t mention was types of ammunition. Generally, lever action rifles were loaded with revolver type rounds. This was handy for many people as you could just carry 1 type of bullet for both your rifle and revolver, but also important due to the tube magazine. Pointy bullet rifle rounds tip to primer layered in the tube is not the safest idea. Hence why flatter revolver rounds were a safer bet. Another reason bolt actions won the day.
@isavedsuperman1x
Жыл бұрын
I always really wondered this honestly
@todadams6533
Жыл бұрын
I love the lever action!!!
@RichardMorse-h6r
9 ай бұрын
The Winchester 1895 was the best and only real competitor to the bolt action rifle. It was chambered in 30-40 Krag, 7.62x54R, 35 Win, 405 Win, 303 British and later in 30-06. It also used stripper clips for reloading. The Russian army bought over 250,000 rifles and used them in WW1. Teddy Roosevelt liked the rifle so much that he bought carbines for all of the officers in the Rough Riders. Later, he took lions and a rhino in Africa with a 1895 in 405 Win. His Big Medicine for lions.
@ConcreteHeat
Жыл бұрын
This was definitely a big question for me after watching All Quiet On The Western Front
@T_D_B_
Жыл бұрын
In a word - Reliability. Done
@TheCopyNinja733
17 күн бұрын
“This is brilliant!” *gestures to the Mosion 1891* “But I *like* this!” *gestures to Winchester 1895*
@user-zh4vo1kw1z
Жыл бұрын
So in short; Sometimes simpler is better
@Backonos
Жыл бұрын
those old bolt actions still have shit MOA
@patriotcraftsboy1046
Жыл бұрын
why was straight pull bolt actions not more common?
@rebelrat3594
Жыл бұрын
mostly cost it meant more money dedicated to specialized cuts that would require very expensive jigs just to get to run reliably and it adds a good amount of wait to the action
@robertharris6092
Жыл бұрын
Theyre also more likely to have issues with getting dirty. But if youre comparing elite troops to elite troops and not grunts then a straight pull would be all the advantages of the lever action with none of the disadvantages.
@rebelrat3594
Жыл бұрын
@@robertharris6092 what's the name of that one Swiss straight pull rifle it was carried by Swiss mountaineers during I believe the first and second world wars like you were saying very specialized troops doing a very specific job and knowing their weapons very well
@VintageWarfare
Жыл бұрын
Later on down the line it was because of the Mauser action being fantastic and mass adopted and copied pretty much everywhere. Despite this, the Austrians and Swiss both used straight pull rifles. I would imagine it was a combination of cost, and an already abundant and proven design existing.
@stravanator
Жыл бұрын
@@rebelrat3594, can't think of the name of the early version, but the "later" one was the K31 that was produced from the '30s up through the late 60s or early 70s. I've got a K31 that was made in 1942. It's in amazing condition especially considering it's military surplus. Love that straight pull and the trigger is smooth like butter. I mean really really good. Detachable magazine but is really meant to be loaded from a stripper clip with the bolt open. It also holds the bolt open when empty. Action is really smooth and accuracy impressive. 174 grain bullet (7.5 x 55) packs a punch. In case you can't tell, I love my K31.
@toddlytodd
Жыл бұрын
The main reason why is that they could not handle the rounds that became popular in the 1890s. The pointed bullets could theoretically set off rounds in front of it in a tube magazine and the lever bolt lockup could not handle the pressures of those large rounds. The last hurrah for military bolt actions was the Winchester model 1895, which had a complicated design to handle rifle rounds and only saw service in ww1 because Russia was desperate for rifles.
@jtorres5381
Жыл бұрын
4. Sh!t just feels and looks awesome on the reload. Everyone becomes a sniper!
@not.krosshair
Жыл бұрын
No. Cowboys and shit. Arthur morgan train scene chapter 2.
@thegrinningplague
10 ай бұрын
@@not.krosshair Average Bolt-action fan VS Average lever-action enjoyer
@garrisonnichols807
Жыл бұрын
Actually one of the biggest reasons was the lever action holds and shoots more rounds. US army ordnance didn't want to keep resupplying ammunition to frontline troops. Especially during the Indian wars in the late 19th century. Bolt action rifles can also use pointed bullets without problems and with stripper clips are faster to reload.
@One-EyedCorvus
Жыл бұрын
In short. One was designed for Defending yourself and your property. The other was designed for Warfare.
@greggranger5140
11 ай бұрын
The reason not mentioned is the bolt action is a stronger system. The rotating locking lugs at the face allowed for much higher pressures and more durable systems. Many bolt guns served for 50 plus years.
@doggonemess1
Жыл бұрын
And with stripper clips, you can reload the bolt action in seconds, while it takes far more dexterity and time to reload the tube magazine on a lever rifle. EDIT: Yeah, I could have read your pinned comment, but it's more fun to thoroughly plant my foot in my mouth.
@DeKrischa
8 ай бұрын
Compared to modern semi-automatic guns, the bolt-action rifles are of course outdated. But I am so much in love with the mechanic and the aesthetics.
@JamieR2077
6 ай бұрын
Interesting reasons, I would think the following was as much or more important: - higher pressure more powerful cartridges in a stronger bolt action - bolt action had more capacity (assuming a lever action was sized up for a 30-06 or similar)) - striper clips for faster reloading - spitzer bullets were a key innovation but fared poorly in tube magazines
@LostShipMate
7 ай бұрын
You missed the two actual reasons. The spitzer cartridges(pointed nose) on modern ammo would cause problems in a tub fed system(the tip of the bullet could hit the primer and blow up the gun), which is why most Bolt actions have a stacked magazine. The other reason is speed loading, you can load a bolt action in short order using a stripper clip, which most military's used. You can't really load a tube magazine that quickly. Every thing you mentioned is valid, but secondary to these requirements.
@senatorjosephmccarthy2720
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for pointing out the differences between the two models. The rear sight is forward of the action on a lever action. So that's not a factor in shooting one accurately.
@williampurdom1031
9 ай бұрын
Another reason was fire power and range. bolt action rifle generally had more stopping power due to their action being much stronger because the bolt was held in by much stronger locking lugs, allowing them to take much larger ammunition, increasing the distance of it lethality and its power (back then, now days with modern materials lever action rifles can take much higher chamber pressures then they used to)
@TheOz91
Ай бұрын
The Ottomans actually used both lever actions and bolt actions together at one point. They put the lever guns up front for rate of fire and backed up by bolt action rifles right behind them. It was pretty effective.
@momanslm6289
9 ай бұрын
Two reasons: cost and long range accuracy. The lever guns could have been employed as the sub machine gun of the late 19th century but no one recognized that role until the sub guns of the early 20th. Even the broom handle Mauser didn’t ignite the idea.
@NamelessPassenger
3 ай бұрын
One thing you also forget that there’re not many model that have mag fed lever action. Which means they stuck with slug round. While we all know that for long range, a modern pointing shape projectiles will be way more efficiency than round shape slug.
@wallefan3
10 ай бұрын
Also the action itself on a lever action had issues withstanding the higher powder amounts in smokeless rifle rounds in service by the late 1880's. Of course that was fixed with the 1894, but the problems listed in the video still apply. The invention of smokeless powder was one the biggest deciders. The turn of the bolt helps get the expended cartridge extracted if the casing blows out. Ammunition wasn't as reliable as modern ammunition without modern manufacturing, so you were more likely to get a bad round.
@RichardMorse-h6r
9 ай бұрын
Savage tried to get the military contract and he came very close to competing with the 30-06 Springfield. In 1920, the 300 Savage was released and it shot a 150 bullet only 30fps slower than the 30-06. But the military wasn’t interested, the Springfield rifle was a good rifle and was proven on the battlefields of WW1.
@SSHitMan
Жыл бұрын
Another reason is militaries had moved away from straight-walled cartridges and blunt-nosed bullets to spitzer bullets which are dangerous to use in a tube magazine, since the pointed bullet can impact the primer of the cartridge in front of it in the magazine and set it off. Yes there are lever-action rifles with box magazines but those are even more complicated and prone to jams, and expensive to produce, and the plastic-tipped bullet hadn't been invented yet.
@codebebop
Жыл бұрын
I believe the main reason which you missed(the ones you gave were very valid but)was the fact that you can use pointed tipped ammo that have better ballistics over the flat tipped ammo, because the cartridges can be stacked on top instead of butted up against the primers in a tube. You can also have a shorter rifle without sacrificing magazine capacity. Side note Mosin designed a lever action for the 7.62x54r but they were in a stacked fixed magazine well. That design had reliability issues if I’m not mistaken too. Which goes back to your other points of why the bolt action is superior.
@christianwilson5956
Ай бұрын
A big reason this seems so strange to us is American vs European weapons development. Americans widely adopted metallic cartridge repeaters for cavalry before they adopted single shot rifles for infantry.
@cochmanofficial1581
10 ай бұрын
So the video is great but I’ll clear up some miscommunications, another reason is that when laying in prone position it’s harder to fire multiple shots in quick succession. The lever action actually jams less than bolt actions but will jam more from dirt and mud, this is why we only used lever action shotguns because they are far less prone to jamming and the paper and brass cartridges they took worked better in lever than via pump (until we swapped over to brass and then we used pump primarily) and people were also worried that having a lower caliber cartridge would be a poor decision because they where fearful of accuracy and scaling problems. We actually did field test lever actions prior to joining ww1 however for these reasons they didn’t really do very well.
@KibuFox
Жыл бұрын
Don't forget, bolt action rifles could use larger cartridges, while lever action rifles were generally limited to a pistol caliber.
@balduinvontrier128
9 ай бұрын
All of this makes sense but I have the strong feeling that the "you can have way more of them" argument was the decisive one.
@josh05683
9 ай бұрын
Lever actions were issued in the US military until 1945. However, they weren’t ever adopted completely. A better comparison for this would be why did bolt action rifles replace breechloaders as breechloaders were far more common in militaries as the time.
@REDN0AK
Жыл бұрын
main reason is.. you'll get a stronger lockup. so you can use more powerful cartridges. the winchester uses black powder charges... the bolt action fires fast burning smokeless powder. much more dakka :)
@michaelchristianrusso
9 ай бұрын
Probably the biggest one, which I'm suprised to see you didn't mention, was ease of reload; lever-action rifles rely on tubular magazines which are painstaking to reload, whereas a bolt-action rifle can be fed vertically via a stripper clip.
@Beuwen_The_Dragon
9 ай бұрын
The biggest reason was Power, Range and most importantly, Reload speed due to the internal box magazine. Until that point, most lever action rifles were chambred in pistol cartridges, with big bore lever guns only coming in around the mid 1880s. However, this was also when the breakthrough in smokeless cartridges came about, effectively increasing the lethal range of rifles from 7-800 yards to 1,000-1,500 yards.. (we can debate the practicality of shooting at such ranges, but the fact is that militaries of the time were worried about becoming heavily outranged by their foes.) Lever action rifles were slowly being upgraded to improve their strength to handle more powerful cartridges, but the fact that an in-line bolt action rifle was already able to handle such powerful cartridges made them ideal for powerful smokeless cartridges. And finally, reloading. The first Smokeless rifle was the French Lebel, which used a tubular magazine not unlike a lever action rifle. This proved to be problematic, as using a pointed bullet in an in-line tubular magazine meant that your bullet tip was resting against the primer of the next cartridge in the magazine… the French had to develop a special case with a recessed circle in the case head to prevent unintended Magazine Detonations from recoil… also, loading a tubular magazine one round at a time was deemed insufficient when other bolt action rifles were either Box magazine Fed, charged with stripper clips, or used an mannlicher style clip to reload the entire magazine in seconds. There would eventually be a box Magazine Fed Lever action rifle in the late 1890s, but by this time most countries were already fully equipped with Bolt Action rifles. However Russia did purchase a large number of them, along with Smith and Wesson No. 3s
@huntercooper1908
6 ай бұрын
Not only could a bolt action rifle handle.The more powerful cartridges later on.They were also a lot easier to mount telescopic sites on on 11 lever action.You always had to Off set it to the side so you could clear the ejection port, but on a bolt action.You could turn the bolt and you can put the scope over the top which made it far more accurate
@aidanromans-murray748
9 ай бұрын
I would say the biggest probably was caliber. Lever actions did not have the strength to fire cartridges as powerful bolt actions. By the time lever action guns started to include the locking bolts in the 1890s to allow the use of stronger cartridges, it was too late. People had already made up their minds, and the bolt action had won.
@ukaszwalczak1154
Жыл бұрын
"This is brilliant *points at bolt action*, but i like this. *points at lever action*"
@SalieriSendsHisRegards
9 күн бұрын
That last bit is particularly true, at least for me it is quite hard to get back on that target after cocking the lever.
Пікірлер: 3,2 М.