I always loved the part where the hobbits settle down to sleep in Tom's house and Frodo has his dream. I can't exactly explain why but something about the coziness and safety of Tom's home on the edge of the spooky Barrow Downs and the hostile Old Forrest feels special.
@anarchorepublican5954
Жыл бұрын
because...during the most fearful and direst of times...there is always rest and comfort for those that dwell in the House of olde TOM...
@michaelr.grimmer6660
11 ай бұрын
Gandalf explained later that even if they gave the ring to Tom, Sauron would burn the entire world down just to find it. So it would do them no good even though he can’t be influenced by it. This speaks volumes about the age and abilities Tom has, always wondered exactly who Tom is, and where he came from.
@miaththered
Жыл бұрын
People skip this chapter? The chapter where they died in the tutorial without the "unessential character that rambles for no reason"? Like, I cannot stress that enough; they were barely out of the Shire when they were almost bodied.
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
*Repeatedly* almost bodied 😂after a chapter's worth of hyping themselves up, no less
@miaththered
Жыл бұрын
Exactly! @@GirlNextGondor
@slappy8941
Жыл бұрын
I consider this chapter to be a litmus test to determine whether someone is a true Tolkien fan, or just a filthy casual.
@shlomoishtov7617
Жыл бұрын
Or a 40 year fan, who is just tired of reading it... I skip it. It's fluff.
@hughmann9568
Жыл бұрын
@@shlomoishtov7617 ok buddy ok. "fluff" means no merit not worth reading. As a "40 year fan" you think you would know better. At least have a solid reasoning. Such as. I don't like that part. It's boring or uninteresting. Don't try to pretend it isn't important for tone and pace.
@TolkienLorePodcast
Жыл бұрын
I’ve never had a problem with these chapters, maybe because I was young and VERY uncritical when I first read LOTR, but even now that I’m older and wiser you still managed to shed even more light on how much character development happens in these chapters.
@joshuacooley1417
Жыл бұрын
I think one reason a lot of people don't care for Tom and the Old Forest is that they read primarily for plot. C.S. Lewis wrote a paper called "The Kappa Element in Romance" in which he spoke about a hidden or cryptic aspect of stories that he felt was essential. It is something like the atmosphere of the story. It is like setting, but it is not simply reducible to the setting. If you think of the setting becoming a feeling that the story evokes, that might be something like it. He referred to this as the "kappa" element because kappa was the first letter of the Greek word for cryptic or hidden. I bring that up because I think Tolkien shared Lewis' view on that topic. In this view plot is less important than the qualitative atmosphere of the story. In this view, setting is more than simply where the story takes place, it is a key element in the reader's experience of the story. I think this view is also expressed in Tolkien's essay, On Fairy Stories where he makes the point that fairy stories are not those which have fairies in them, but rather those that involve the realm of Faerie. This to me seems to be making a similar point, that it is neither the plot nor the content that specifically makes a story a Faerie Story, but rather the setting, or perhaps more accurately the qualitative atmosphere of the Realm of Faerie.
@niyamimbi1179
Жыл бұрын
thank you! loved the writing on Sam's reaction to the willow "how persistent vegetation can be", and avid horticultural zeal " indeed!
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
Composed that paragraph while trying to weed my bermuda-grass infested border 😂
@Enerdhil
Жыл бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor Do you live on the fairway of a golf course?😅
@williamhealey1223
Жыл бұрын
I read this series when I was a boy. I believe it was 1980. What you are describing is now called High Fantasy. But what it was when it was written was an example of masterful storytelling. The first true masterpiece of world building done by a literary man. Few authors of any true note prior to him invested such massive amounts of time into what then was a relatively "frivolous" type of literary field in the eyes of academia at the time. He invented languages and cultures and religions. Things now taken for granted in fantasy today took him a lifetime (more) to compile. And don't forget this was there may have been a (world) war happening somewhere... maybe... Just saying. I'm glad that there are still readers that can see past the more superficial aspects of good tale and into the heart of masterly written and many layered fantasy classic. Enjoy your reading.
@NoMercy8008
Жыл бұрын
I have been binging through literally 75% of your channel in the last two days or so, listening while playing some games, and i intend to listen through the remaining videos shortly. So obviously, i am really really enjoying them! ^-^ I love that your content is not just about explaining, but mostly focused on interpretation, connotation and expansion, if you will, digging deeper into the lore and the writing itself 💛 There is quite obviously a lot of insight to be gained, and you can never gain too much Tolkien insight, i'd say :D Thank you so so much, i deeply appreciate it ❤ ALL the best ^-^
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the feedback! Scratching the surface and going one step beyond the 'lore' itself to find the insights it can offer is one of my main goals, so I'm really glad to hear you've been enjoying that aspect! 🥰
@lulubelle4850
Жыл бұрын
All this plus thank you for not using announcer speak.
@eluthiccgol4715
Жыл бұрын
Ooooh watching now!
@chables74
Жыл бұрын
First half Fellowship is peak LOTR
@robingile4301
Жыл бұрын
Good point with Sam!
@Ray-lw2rh
9 ай бұрын
I love that chapter. Tom Bombadil is such an interesting and intriguing character. I always loved the mystery behind him.
@scottperry7311
11 ай бұрын
I think you made a good point, one I had not considered before. Old Man Willow, Tom Bomb Bombadil, and the Barrow Wights are a transition of a story that is safe in the shire to a more dangerous world outside. While as an old D&D player I often looked at this part of the books as added adventure or some greater look at the world, it does make sense that it is also a transition, started with the Riders hunt for him in the shire, to a greater understanding of just how the dangerous the world outside the Shire is and the obstacles the hobbits will face. I say obstacles not enemies, mind you. Because some of the greatest allies of the forces of good turn out to be greater expressions of the threats in these chapters. Old Man Willow might have been a mortal threat to the Fellowship, but Treebeard, the Ents and the Fangorn Forest prove to be a powerful force that helps defeat the forces of Saurman. Also while the Borrow Wights of the Borrows Downs may have been mortal enemies of the Fellowship once again, the Oath Breaks, spirts cursed to be bound to the earth for all eternity because the broke their oath until released by the line of the Kings, prove to be a major force in helping to defeat the forces of Sauron at Minas Tirith. While neither of these events defeats Sauron directly they do help the forces of the free people eventually win the war.
@jcreation369
Жыл бұрын
In full disclosure, whilst I have read the Hobbit multiple times, I have not yet read The Lord of the Rings and my familiarity with the story comes only from movies and youtube videos exploring various aspects of Tolkien's creation. Having said that, this topic is so interesting to me. I've often found that enlightening aspects of a story that bring enrichment to the tale can get lost in the woods (if you'll pardon the pun)of directorial edits. Once I have finished the fictional series I am reading, The Lord of the Rings is on my to read-list!😊 Hopefully, if I find myself falling asleep😴 during this part of the story, the keen insights presented so thoughtfully here will serve to help me wake up😳 and find my way back to the path, maybe worse for the wear, but perhaps a bit wiser for having not skipped this chapter. 👏
@johnries5593
Жыл бұрын
"Until the Dark Lord lifts his hand...". In the Barrow Wights' incantation, Tolkien made it clear where their allegiance lay.
@shanenolan5625
Жыл бұрын
Thanks lexi
@bigsarge2085
Жыл бұрын
I always appreciated this seeming interlude in the wider narrative.
@kevinrussell1144
Жыл бұрын
Well done, well said. The Old Forest/TB story has long been my favorite part of the Fellowship. The Shadow of the Past is more crucial to laying out the guts of the story and tying it to Middle earth lore and history, but these Bombadil doings, even the first time I read them, seemed much more meaningful and mysterious than the simple text would suggest. In a word, I was enchanted, and you can't buy that. The layers of "chance and happenings" that branch out from the Old Forest sojourn are thought provoking and then some.
@larrykuenning5754
Жыл бұрын
The question of omitting some chapters reminds me of an essay by C.S. Lewis ("On Historicism") treating real-world human history itself as a story and raising the question whether some of its chapters are "dead wood" contributing nothing to the meaning of the whole. If there are stories like that, he says, you can't know whether the story you're reading is one of them until you've read the whole thing; then on later readings you can skip the useless parts. "I always now omit the last book of _War and Peace_," he says (!). I've wondered whether this last sentence was a joke, or an actual brag that he'd read Tolstoy's work _several_ times, skipping the unnecessary chapters on the later readings. But I think Lexi shows here that even after a first reading, one's impression that certain chapters are "dead wood" may still be mistaken. At any rate I don't think I've ever skipped chapters in my many rereadings of Tolkien. (Tolstoy's huge novel, on the other hand, I've only read once. But I thought its last chapters were interesting.) BTW the quote at 0:09 from "Addenda and Corrigenda to The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" (eds Hammond and Scull) is originally from one of Tolkien's letters -- or at least I think I remember it that way, though I've failed to find it there just now. I haven't seen, or even heard of, this particular Hammond and Scull work before this.
@emtiger3
Жыл бұрын
Huzzah! Three cheers for Bombadil!! May he one day NOT be absent in a major dramatic rendering of our great tale! Maybe, even, his own miniseries on Netflix or another major market outlet! Huzzah! One thing I must protest - that Fatty Lumpkin be included in a listing of "Eldritch Horrors?!" If he is, he is the most adorable such horror ever penned. I would further assert that the master of "Eldritch" horror himself could never conceive of such a lovable beast as he wrote of blighted worlds and distant dimensions from his halls in Rhode Island. My protest aside, an excellent video as always, Lexi. I do think you have put to rest the accusations of irrelevancy piled against these three chapters for so many years. Thank-you! Well done! 🙂
@Blink-Ensu
Жыл бұрын
That was not only a well researched and reasoned defense of the inclusion of those chapters it was also well written. Thank you for the education!
@AdamPentz-ct2hn
Жыл бұрын
As a longtime Tolkien reader, I LOVE ch's 6-8! Tom is my favorite bit character in the entire original world. I am a middle school literature teacher, and I teach this part as "Frodo and the others begin the Hero's Journey as a sort of 'trial run' where they can make mistakes or fail where it is 'safer'".
@pmcKANE
Жыл бұрын
The idea of skipping anything makes me uncomfortable.
@oldboy117
Жыл бұрын
One of my favorite chapters in the book, actually. Along with everything else that happens before and up to Bree. Just that atmosphere of stepping out of the peaceful Shire saturated with life into the empty backroads and long abandoned, crumbled places, faced with mystery, uncertainty and farmer Maggot, of course
@markus-hermannkoch1740
Жыл бұрын
6:03 Beautiful painting, taking a mighty cool shot at the question, why Sauron's image is taken as a cat's eye!
@piotrczubryt1111
Жыл бұрын
An echo of Tevildo The Prince of Cats
@DarthBop
Жыл бұрын
The hobbits have three guides in the wilderness, Tom Bombadil, Strider and Gollum. One looks fair and seems fair. One looks foul but seems fair. And, one looks foul and seems foul. There has to be some sort of lesson in that, even if unintended.
@dingo2306
Жыл бұрын
My brain has the tendency to provide surface level insight for story telling. I did not see Frodo taking the name Underhill as character development, but as a code name for Strider to identify who Frodo is. I also saw Underhill as a call back to the conversation between Bilbo and Smaug in the Hobbit. 😊
@mjlamey1066
Жыл бұрын
God dammit it's too much content, it's coming too fast. BABE! WAKE. UP. *shakes bed vigorously*
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
I've made it my mission to cure Babe's narcolepsy
@mjlamey1066
Жыл бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor the Dagor Dagorath and babe waking up: will they ever happen? Are they even canon? Could they even be the same event? Only time will tell.
@ericvanvlandren8987
Жыл бұрын
Great video - so many good points.
@piotrczubryt1111
Жыл бұрын
Well, Tolkien's dream world was quite private and not created to please the mass public. This world has its own logic and refined composition. It was generous that Tolkien was willing to share it with others. Take it or leave it.
@haydenwalton2766
Жыл бұрын
It's one of my favourites. I often read it. furthermore, I'm glad it's not in the film because the imagery is mine alone
@lasernatoo0
6 ай бұрын
The Hammond and Scull quote at the beginning is actually quite close to something Tolkien himself said in an unpublished letter from 20-26 January 1964: "I feel that no construction of the human mind, whether in imagination or the highest philosophy, can contain within its own "englobement" all that there is ... There is always something left over that demands a different or longer construction to "explain" it ... This is like a "play", in which ... there are noises that do not belong, chinks in the scenery". He goes on to discuss Bombadil specifically in relation to this, but the text of the letter is unavailable.
@markus-hermannkoch1740
Жыл бұрын
At any rate, that Merry Fellow^{tm}, is not incapable of hostility. Still shivering from when he mopped that dusty floor with the old Barrow Wight: "Get out, you old Wight! Vanish in the sunlight! Shrivel like the cold mist, like the winds go wailing, Out into the barren lands far beyond the mountains! Come never here again! Leave your barrow empty! Lost and forgotten be, darker than the darkness, Where gates stand for ever shut, till the world is mended." No mercy or chance of redemption for that old soul, who, presumably, had been enslaved by the Witch King of Angmar more than a thousand years past. No 'there is still poor Smeagol inside'. Instead, pure destruction.
@Enerdhil
Жыл бұрын
Great point. Tom spoke with authority and had power greater than that of Sauron's Ring. So who is he?🤔
@richardbergmark6722
Жыл бұрын
Excellent work!
@ParameterGrenze
Жыл бұрын
Tom Bombadil always seemed like a Monthy Python intermission to me: Out of place, weird and vibrant.
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
No one expects Tom Bombadil! His greatest weapon is surprise -- surprise and rhymes, TWO greatest weapons....
@eliscanfield3913
Жыл бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor And almost fanatical devotion Goldberry
@margaretalbrecht4650
Жыл бұрын
And yet the elves used wood in many products. And how much wood did it take to keep that fire burning all day and night in the Hall of Fire?
@Limubi1
Жыл бұрын
Love this analysis, as ever. Thank you
@GreatGreebo
Жыл бұрын
What kind of *monster* skips a chapter in The Lord of the Rings?!? Oh, the humanity!!!
@j.r.r.tolkee7000
Жыл бұрын
What sort of self-hating monster would skip Bombadil?
@joshuapatrick682
8 ай бұрын
1:50-2:20 okay, you got yourself another subscriber. That was great
@jonathanstewart351
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting take on the story! I've always thought that Tolkien was shoehorning one of his favorite, but virtually unknown, characters into what promised to be his major opus (LOTR) because it was his fancy to do so. How? Why, put the hobbits in some sort of danger from which only Tom Bombadil could rescue them. Also, enter a barrow wight! A purely throw-away danger. But also, what a nifty time to put Merry and Pippin to the test as well, together with a neat explanation of how they came by the swords they'd need further on. The whole sequence in the book struck me as a way to have Tom play a part played in a quasi-magical setting of a semi-sentient forest that has a grudge against wanderers from 'outside.' The barrow wight had no power over Tom, of course, and neither did The Ring, so he had no reason to be concerned with the outcome of the hobbit's quest and could be instantly retired from the story after his part was played. Plus, he was happy with Goldberry, living with her in virtual isolation. No friends? No extended families? No children? He and Goldberry were apparently past child-bearing age and must have outlived their friends and families -- while staying at their primes. Then we come to the barrow wights: they, or rather it, had no reason for existence other than to be a danger to the hobbits. Here would have been a great moment for showing the hobbits rising to the occasion together, fighting what would have been an overwhelming force if faced independently, defeating it as a team. But instead of making use of the situation to show the hobbits triumphant in their first battle, Tolkien in his wisdom has written that Frodo loses control and runs off squeaking in terror, which allows Bombadil to be their savior again! After which, the hobbits continue their journey virtually unscathed, now with a couple of extra swords. The whole thing feels like an after-thought, an insertion not demanded by the story so much as demanded by the author. It does explain how Merry and Pippin come by their swords, but that could been have more easily handled by writing that the hobbits got caught in a rainstorm, taking shelter in a barrow where they'd find no barrow wight, but a couple of long dead skeletons lying on slabs: a king and queen from a fabled past who'd been buried clutching their swords against their chests. Or the swords could have been among other trinkets placed near the royal corpses for use in an afterlife. But that seems contrived as well. Perhaps the hobbits could have picked the swords up, with permission from Butterbur, from a display rack at the Prancing Pony, or...it might have been even better to have the swords be family heirlooms that the two could have practiced with from boyhood up. Same with Frodo. Swords and swordplay take time to master. Well, those are my thoughts. Congrats to whoever has taken the time to read this whole thing! I welcome any and all comments.
@piotrczubryt1111
Жыл бұрын
Why don't you write your own fantasy and share with us?
@ishmaelforester9825
9 ай бұрын
The terrifying part when the tree captures the Hobbits is worthy of a Poe.
@TerencePetersenAjbro
Жыл бұрын
Truly, The Old Forest and In the house of Tom Bombadil are two of my favourite chapters in the book. I often just read them in isolation. The Dead Marshes by contrast my least favourite, it's too sad and melancholic. I think I would prefer staying with Tom than with Galadriel in Lothlorien. There is a homeliness in Tom's house than just feels right.
@andyman2583
Жыл бұрын
Fantastic video! My favorite of yours so far.
@coreymack6208
Жыл бұрын
I enjoy lord of the rings because it has many strange things. I love that Tolkien intended there to be strange things that aren’t representative of something (allegorically). They can just be weird and odd because that’s the world and it immerses me. The chapters between buckland and bree scratched my itch for weirdness, but my experience as the reader was that I forgot this was Lord of the Rings for a second and we haven’t heard or thought about the Nazgûl and Gandalf in a hot minute. I would also add that the ring being set up to be this thing of evil, that has a will of its own, completely shatters when Tom takes it and plays with it. This point in the story is before the Bree mishap and boromir’s temptation. All we know is there’s this evil ring. And Mr Tommy sunshine over here isn’t affected by it. It even deflated its menace by having this happen. It’s only in retrospect that the we realize how anomalous Tom’s character is. He’s pretty weird up front, but he’s even weirder when you know what happens because of the ring.
@stardust949
Жыл бұрын
I've read and re-read The Lord of the Rings about....8 times? From start to finish and BACK AGAIN. I LOVE the chapter about their journey through the Old Forest, as well as the amazing Tom B. and his good lady wife, Goldberry. PURE EFFING MAGIC-----plus, he kicks the Barrow Wights ASS!!!! The Ring doesn't affect him!!!!! Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? How the film makers have lost out, consistently deleting Tom Bombadil. sigh. But that's okay----he's OUR little Secret, those of us who can still READ.
@gabrielblanchard3921
Жыл бұрын
GNG: "There's a lot to say about Tom Bombadil ..." Me: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Bright blue tunic -- and with yellow piping ... we can't see any boots, but if they -- that _would_ match! IS -- [gasp] GNG: [finishes video without even confessing him to be a merry fellow, that bright blue his jacket is, or that his boots are yellow] Me: [Elvish sense of heartbreak intensifies] Seriously, though, thank you for making this! I first read the book when I was 14 or 15, and, like many readers, I hated Bombadil on my first read-through: he didn't make sense with the lore, he felt way too goofy for the tone, all the usual stuff. To this day, I still don't know how this happened, but somehow, the second time I read the book, he just _clicked_ for me. I've loved him ever since. I could point to a couple of important thematic functions he fulfills; for example, the fact that his nature and powers are never explained, and that (iirc) pretty much _every_ in-universe explanation of him fails (sometimes due to Tolkien's specific denial!), makes the world a little more mysterious around the edges -- like real life is. I don't know if I was picking up on the things you outlined here -- probably not, and even if I was, it wasn't conscious on my part -- but I'm glad to have something I can hand to Bombadil haters to articulate why those two chapters genuinely are important, structurally as well as thematically. Barely-related fact, but, there is at least _one_ adaptation that includes Bombadil! Ae you aware of the (I kid you not) Soviet adaptation from 1991? Of all the movies that have ever been made, it is clearly one of them, and on top of that, we've technically also got a silver-screen version of Bombadil.
@lordofchaosinc.261
Жыл бұрын
Incongruent and "jarring" parts are what seperates man-made literature from writing designed by comitee for binge-watching. The author wanted to make a point so he put it in there and hoped the reader would get it. Same is true with other masterpieces, you can see how they are hand-crafted with all seams and wrinkles and don't come cast from a mold for easy consumption.
@LovemyDrones
Жыл бұрын
Having read the Trilogy many times as well as the Hobbit, I kept waiting for Tom Bombodil and the old forest during the Jackson movies and then I got confused, was that in "The Hobbit" or LOTR? I hadn't read the books in years. I must procure and read again!
@christophrehse
10 ай бұрын
I had to laugh at "space spider". Spot on.
@jackpowell9276
Жыл бұрын
The concept of chapter skipping is madness for one. But these chapters are great! I love the entire journey from the start to rivendell. It really expands on Merry and Pippin massively, sets up some of those key plot points, daggers, maybe even entwives etc, and gives them a much needed escape route. The entire adventure is great, and could be a film in its own right. We get some history and mystery too which is always nice, but the major grand threats are only just starting to be made apparent. There is the last threads of whimsical and not too far from home.
@victorianguyen6620
7 ай бұрын
First, unless one is an expert on Tolkien, no one should say Tolkien just ' threw in TB' for no apparent reason. The old forest and the encounter with the Barrow wrights are the most frightening part of the story for me. Orcs dont bother me. They're right in your face. But the Barrows are mysterious and unknown. Anyway, the point of the Hobbits being taken in by Tom and their near death experience, teaches Frodo of how grave a task he has been given. His character arc is being developed here; he is beggining to understand and mature about how serious is the nature of the task he has been given. I also think it gives him and the others a time of respite to realize the true courage they will need to help Frodo. This chapter is important and should not be considered "fluff". It is meant to develope character arcs, and Tom's name will come up in the council of Elrond, as they debate and consider how to destroy the ring. Therefore, Tom is well known by all of the council. An integral part of the council. Don't bash what you don't understand about anything. The book, the author, the affairs of life. Each thing that one comes to understnd is a learning experience and makes one a better person; more patient and open to ideas they might never have learned by just relying on their own thinking. So, do understand that these so called "boreing" chapters, do add to develope character arcs as well as letting us put ourselves into the world of the book. As if we were the hobbits and experiencing who they are and what they will be facing as their jourmey progresses. It's quite exciting if you let yourself be taken in ( like virtual reality) except in this case the written page. Kudos to those who even take time to actually READ a book. Tolkien was brilliant in his writings. Created a whole new world for us to enter into. To leave the real world behind for awhile as we read and enter into Tolkien's well thought out world for us to enter into. This discussion would not be possible if it were not for the genious of Professor Tolkien's hard work and brilliant mind in story telling. We have much to thank him for, and his son Christopher, who stayed true to his father's ideas for the books he helped to finish, after his father's death. It is my hope that this 'little'(haha)explan-ation might persuade, at least some, to reconsider their opinion of these chapters. Professor Tolkien was not haphazzard when he wrote anything. It was always well thought out. (Please excuse any spelling errors I have made). Thank you!
@williampounds5191
7 ай бұрын
I appreciate the sentiment but if I didn't skip Tom Bombadil I would have never gotten through the book. I dropped the book as a kid during the hobbits' encounter with Tom because I was simply too confused. At the time I didn't even know Lord of the Rings was a famous book or that this part of the book had a reputation. Over 20 years later it still hasn't been able to keep my attention. I'm not sure why, it just is what it is.
@dimentoplexitronum4923
10 ай бұрын
This is one of my favorite chapters and I feel like it teaches all 4 hobbits lessons they need and use later
@Jester1411
11 ай бұрын
I don't get why people dismiss these chapters... I think them as really important and shows exactly that just outside Hobbiton there were wonders in the world that noone knew and that they were fading into obscurity. The hobbits encounter all the old legends that by the end of the book dont exist anymore. Also it was the knife from the burrows that wounded the witch king....
@TexasTimeLord
Жыл бұрын
It is impossible to exaggerate the grandeur of Tolkiens works. He literally created a world and creatures that every creation since then has borrowed from. Imagine reading his books for the first time without prior knowledge of what orcs and trolls and elves and dwarves are.
@BlaziNxTheO
Жыл бұрын
I feel like Tolkien was using this as a way of describing boot camp or his first deployment
@willajer
Жыл бұрын
Well shit, consider me told off. I'll read it next time 😅
@DonMeaker
6 ай бұрын
Cold be hand, and heart, and bone, And cold be sleep that is under stone....
@ashmoore9945
Жыл бұрын
Great break down.
@jimsteele9559
Жыл бұрын
The Old Forest and the chapters following the jumping off point from the Shire are the best chapters in the book. Said so for years.
@rdbury507
Жыл бұрын
So if this was a role playing game then the willow and barrow wight would be early bosses. Not in the same league as the final boss, but necessary training for handling upcoming dangers. To me the most significant thing about Tom is that he's a link to the past. He's a reminder the world is old and has a history that we're only dimly aware of, but which still influences the present. The forests in Middle Earth all seem to be home to some ancient race or person, Tom or elves or ents. Again, the forests represent the ancient world, before man came along with agriculture and roads. I can see why this section got left out the movies, it's just not worth the screen time to include it when it's not directly connected to the main plot. But it's always been one of my favorite parts of the novel and a good reason for people to read the books if they've only seen the movies. To really do justice to the novels you'd need to do a multiseason series, 40-60 hours say. I assume Tom would make the cut in that. Too bad the series adaptation we did get is more tangentially related fan fiction than adaptation.
@kendannon4435
Жыл бұрын
Yep.
@a5cent
Жыл бұрын
When I first read LotR I was 11 years old. I recall disliking Tom Bombadil already then. I very much appreciate this analysis. It has helped me better appreciate this section of the book and how it affects our favorite hobbits' personal growth, in particular Frodo shedding some of his naivety. Alas, I still have trouble appreciating Tom Bombadil. Perhaps I lack the sophistication to do so. Perhaps I can't get past the first impression which was engraved into my mind as a child. Whatever the reason is, it seems to me Frodo and company could have been taught the same lessons without that requiring an inexplicable, seemingly all-powerful and "other worldly" entity to swoop in and save them, just at the right time on multiple occasions, to then never be heard of again. After finishing the books, I was glad Tom Bombadil did not reappear. At least to my childish mind, he felt like little more than an overly dressed up "911 call". I still can't discount the possibility that Tom Bombadil was nothing more than a mistake which Tolkien was unable to reconcile with the rest of the story, with the only plausible solution being to shroud everything in mystery. Of course readers enjoy having their expectations subverted, but not when the expectation is to be entertained or to be spared a character who's purpose can't even be guessed at. I'd still argue LotR, as a literary work, would be better without Tom Bombadil, although the scenes in the Old Forest themselves are, as I've now been convinced, necessary. The chapter truly may not be skipped ;-) P.S. Thank you for this. I've been binge watching your work as of late, and all of it is amazing stuff!
@mena94x3
4 ай бұрын
People skip these chapters? I love them!
@jacobvardy
7 ай бұрын
Commenting in the hope that the algorithm will unwind its tendrils from around my neck. Also, i am really curious if Tolkien ever commented upon Joseph Campbell's nonsense. As far as i know 'the Hero of a Thousand Faces' wasn't well known until George Lucus mentioned it, which was after Tolkien's death. A pity, it might have been fun to read Tolkien execrate Campbell.
@theBlankScroll
8 ай бұрын
All valid points, and i still cant quite handle this chapter. Hes supposed to seem jolly, but he comes off more creepy uncle to me
@DontHateMeCausImSexy
Жыл бұрын
love love LOVE your stuff!
@ahennessy7998
Жыл бұрын
Bombadil is the GOAT who inadvertently killed tbe witch king
@dw1419
Жыл бұрын
It was all part of Eru’s plan :)
@PorkSword_actual
Жыл бұрын
He knew.
@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115
Жыл бұрын
Thou shall not skip any chapter, any song or any poem , under threat of losing a trove of deep storytelling.
@Minicheche250
Жыл бұрын
I listened to them on audible ( andy serkis version) and im so glad i did, his voice was soo fitting for immersion especially the old forest
@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115
Жыл бұрын
@@Minicheche250 I've listened some Tolkien poems with Christopher Lee's voice.
@beatleblev
Жыл бұрын
So...starting at "Many Meetings" is right out? Oops.
@dontgivetwothwips3615
Жыл бұрын
I skip the poems and songs; can’t stand them. The characters always give a summary of the song before and/or after that gives the gist of what’s being sung about. I also dont like musicals
@David_Fellner
Жыл бұрын
@@dontgivetwothwips3615 That's fair. When I first read the books I skipped most of the songs and poems too. Over time I've gained an appreciation for them, with Éomer's "Now for wrath" song being one of my favorite passages. . . That said, Sam's troll song still does nothing but annoy me.
@beatleblev
Жыл бұрын
At some point in my college readings of LotR (maybe iteration 6-8?) I realized that the Hobbits are making increasingly poor decisions. After their stay at Tom's house, you forgot to mention that they camped in the spooky graveyard. That is teenagers in a horror movie stupidity. I blamed the Ring. Pre 1409 TA I suppose there would be no harm in sleeping with the ancestors on an Arnorian camping trip, but it's a hard pass in 3018 TA. The Ring is also suspect in coaxing Frodo to abandon his best buddy butler and his cousins to the wights complete with forethought on what we were going to tell Gandalf. Amid the natural world hostility and the Ring following its programming to get back to Sauron, we get good old Master Tom. If Gandalf is Sauron's opposite, Tom is his contrast. For Tom the One IS the "last of rings' and a 'fancy' while on the other hand, no one is more rightly ensnared by the One Ring than its maker. Tom is the Master of himself and from there he is able to master the world around him. In contrast, Sauron Masters others, but not himself. Instead, he has spent himself, into an externalized object and became its slave as well as its lord.
@AquaStockYT
9 ай бұрын
Spoken like a true voluntaryist. I wonder what kind of philosophy J.R.R. Tolkien believed in~ hey whawhuwhawayayait a minute!
@solharv7817
Жыл бұрын
Love this channel because you discuss The Lord of the Rings as actual works of literature and analyse its storytelling and themes, rather than just treating it like a lore wiki page
@internetenjoyer1044
Жыл бұрын
yeah a lot of channels treat Lord of the Rings like it's some cheap pulp franchise with an extended universe to mine for cool lore factoids. if you're not getting the lore from the medium itself you're losing out on the aesthetic experience
@yomamma.ismydaddy216
Жыл бұрын
I feel ya that’s why I appreciated “Tolkien lore”s channel so much when I found him, he’s always exploring ideas based directly on the text itself
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
His videos are excellent. 😊
@Enerdhil
Жыл бұрын
@@yomamma.ismydaddy216 Yes. Joshua and Lexi are two of the best. Throw in Steven of The Red Book and you have a perfect deep dive triumvirate.👍😁
@yomamma.ismydaddy216
Жыл бұрын
@@Enerdhil and the two dudes that have ‘the one ring’ channel have also clearly read and re-read the books and especially the silmarillion many many times and they have some great insights, really don’t understand why their channel isn’t more popular, probably bc they do very little watering down so their discussions can be very dense
@alexshadowfax1119
Жыл бұрын
Wait, people skip chapters when reading Lord of the Rings?
@Strideo1
Жыл бұрын
Only the most impatient and depraved of readers would do such a thing.
@a5cent
Жыл бұрын
If I ever have legislative power, this will become a criminal offense ;-)
@keithbass1094
Жыл бұрын
I don’t know how they do that !
@Enerdhil
Жыл бұрын
Lazy and/or unimaginative readers, I suppose.
@larsskogh7562
4 ай бұрын
Tic toc brain do that 😜
@jonhartz2136
Жыл бұрын
Fatty Lumpkin is second only to Cthulhu as regards Eldritch horrors.
@valaraukar_595
Жыл бұрын
The way I CACKLED! 😂
@richtomchuk1584
Жыл бұрын
Farmer Maggot: Do I mean nothing to you?!
@gabrielblanchard3921
Жыл бұрын
no wonder the barrow-wight ran away from him, really
@mattmccartney5996
Жыл бұрын
I'm the exact opposite. I only read the old forest chapter. Sure I don't know what happened to the ring, but I'm sure everything worked out in the end. It always does. p.s. Old Man Willow was innocent. p.p.s. Fredegar "Fatty" Bolger was one of the blue wizards.
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
#estel-pilled
@robingile4301
Жыл бұрын
Fatty was a Blue Wizard? Excellent, thank you!
@Hero_Of_Old
Жыл бұрын
@@GirlNextGondorlmao
@obxwave
Жыл бұрын
I was eight years old when I first read LOTR…in 1975…Fog on the Barrow Downs was possibly the most ominous and terrifying thing I’d ever read.
@docopoper
Жыл бұрын
Tom Bombadil reminds me of when I've been watching the news too much and am getting drawn into thinking about the forces for and against my worldview of how to make the world better. And then I encounter somebody who isn't politically engaged at all. And being in their presence makes me happy, takes the stress off my shoulders and makes me remember how much more there is to life. That's not to say that we can all be Tom Bombadil all the time. But it's far too easy to forget especially in the modern world that there is value in not fighting and instead taking time to just be.
@s3p4kner
Жыл бұрын
The trees would be a bit narky wouldn't they, given one of the hobbits is carrying the greater part of an evil that would burn the world just to mould the ashes.
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
I had not considered that the trees might be reacting simply to the Ring's presence, but given that the works of Sauron tend to have... industrial results, it makes perfect sense.
@EriktheRed2023
Жыл бұрын
I never felt the Old Forest or Bombadil were abrupt, incongruent, or anything like that. Maybe because the first time I heard the story, I was about eight or nine, and my dad was reading it to the whole family. I had not yet absorbed enough story-stuff to see how Tolkien was playing with expectations. But even these days, I still seem to see parallels to other stories. It's not unusual for a Germanic or Viking protagonist to gain a sword from entering a haunted barrow. Sigmund regains the sword given to him by Odin when he is buried alive. Or the protagonist gets a weapon or special knowledge by going to someone like a dwarf, who lives outside society and has their own agenda and special skills. But Tolkien, of course, puts his own spin on it, making it more 'modern' and naturalistic, in addition to putting it firmly within his subcreated world.
@Valdagast
Жыл бұрын
The wilderness is not nice in Tolkien. The landscape of Middle-Earth is alive, and it is not overly fond of humans (or other Incarnates). Tolkien has an amazing feel for the beauty and dangers of the wild.
@EriktheRed2023
Жыл бұрын
/slaps like button "Old Algorithm, eh? Naught more than that?"
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
GirlNextGondor is a lass, not a fellow Bright blue the logo is, and her text is yellow....
@Ancientreapers
Жыл бұрын
I always viewed Tom as the opposite being to Ungoliant.
@GirlNextGondor
Жыл бұрын
It is perhaps notable that, while Spooky Woods appears to be the preferred habitat of Ungoliant's spawn, there's no sign or mention of spiders in Tom's neck of the woods.... 😂
@Enerdhil
Жыл бұрын
@@GirlNextGondor Maybe Tom couldn't rhyme the word "spider" with anything and decided to keep them a secret.🕷️🕸️🤫
@zimmerwald1915
2 ай бұрын
@@EnerdhilI refuse to believe Tom couldn't have come up with "attercop" or something like it.
@Enerdhil
2 ай бұрын
@@zimmerwald1915 🎼 Hey stop. 🎶Attercop. 🎵Ring-a-ding my hearty. 🤔🎶
@mikeMakhno
Жыл бұрын
I may be weird, but the Old Forest has always been one of my favourite bits.
@andytorres2395
Жыл бұрын
The Old Forest and Barrow Downs are my favorite part in the novels.
@tiltskillet7085
Жыл бұрын
Are you saying it's all down hill from there? :P
@markus-hermannkoch1740
Жыл бұрын
A good runner up. My personal favorite scene is when Gandalf heals Théoden King.
@adventussaxonum448
Жыл бұрын
As someone who grew up in the shadow of downs with bronze age barrows on them, and next to a large, dark wood, I loved these chapters.
@Captain_Insano_nomercy
11 ай бұрын
England?
@robingile4301
Жыл бұрын
Tom Bombadil is wonderful and Goldenberry is so much glorious grandness too. Fatty Lumpkin is a treasure. Any one who does not appreciate this is a little sad. Then there is the sword Merry carries....
@TheBrothersArda
Жыл бұрын
Never understood the desire to skip any of Tolkien's chapters, as his is a book where every sentence, every chapter is of key importance and is integral in establishing all that happens later on in the book. Can't wait to reach this chapter, with Matt from Dork Lords for our book-club streams.
@RadicalCaveman
Жыл бұрын
I never knew there WAS such a desire.
@er6730
8 ай бұрын
I tend to skip parts. All the descriptions are too much for me, and also the miserable slog of Sam and Frodo is a tempting one to skip. I like reading Tom Bombadil in a happy bewilderment, although I admit that my eyes tend to slide to the end of his song after a few lines. The whole logistically knotty friend conspiracy is a very essential part of the story and I am sorry it didn't make the movie. I think it's okay to skip ahead. Every time I read it, I can find something new! If I didn't let myself skip pages, I wouldn't read it at all, or perhaps only read it once as a kind of ordeal. Tip for people like me who do want to read the whole book: listen to it as an audio book! That way you can do the ironing while listening to the description of which exact trees grew to the west, which way the river flowed, what the tributaries leading into that river are called, and the exact order of everything, AND not lose your mind with boredom! Plus you've finally done all the ironing. 👍
@fifi-trixibell1888
Жыл бұрын
This is my favourite part of the book. It has the best atmosphere.
@Rakhamon
Жыл бұрын
I've always been a huge fan of the Old Forest part. Never understood why some people dislike Tom Bombadil. Something I thought a lot about after your Ainulindale video is how well Tom's "powers" fit in with the idea of Middle-Earth as a subcreation of song. "His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster." Tom sings, which is a perfect encapsulation of the nature of his "power" as part of the great themes of Middle-Earth. Another good one!
@joseraulcapablanca8564
Жыл бұрын
This was as ever good stuff GNG. This chapter is a wonderful transition, especiialy for the fan of the Hobbit, as i was when i first read it more than fifty years ago, the Hobbit is a book for children, i then was becoimng grown up as does the story in LotR. the frustration of their attempts to move forward seem almost to reflect Tolkiens frustration with the same, though this famously came much later in the story. i honestly believe that Bombadil is wheter the professor was aware of it a reflection of the author, more particularly the author as analogised in Leaf by Niggle. Thanks and keep up the good work.
@MarleyFett
Жыл бұрын
"bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.'🎶🎵🥰❤️✌️
@siriondil4739
Жыл бұрын
Oh boy I’m always thrilled to see a new video. The topics are so varied I never know what will be next, love them all.
@jimbombadill
Жыл бұрын
I used to think it was a some what anoying sidestep but i come to love it more and more. It gives more layers and growth to the characters and the world. We only scratch on the serfice of what Tom tells them while he is talking to them in his house, and as that it dosnt give the reader as much meat on the bone as the shadow of the past or the councuil of Elrond. The older i get the more i find my favorite chapters in the beggining of the book. Three is company is almost my favorite now, since that is when they meet the elfs for the first time.
@colindunnigan8621
Жыл бұрын
One irony that I have is that I while I too have come to enjoy these chapters, I still have trouble is the introduction of Treebeard, which is a not insignificant plot point.
@jimbombadill
Жыл бұрын
@@colindunnigan8621 you mean Tom Bombadil ?
@robingile4301
Жыл бұрын
And Gandalf is going to have a long talk with Bombadil, that would be so fine to hear.
@Jeffrey_Tyler
Жыл бұрын
I've never seen that quote that was up at the beginning of the video but that is how I always thought of Tom. He shows you that there is so much more to this world than even Gandalf and Elrond know. And that as wise and old as both of them are, even they don't know everything. Or they do know and they aren't willing to divulge that information. Either way it's a sense of mystery that shows the world is way bigger than the scope of the story.
@tonybaker1268
Жыл бұрын
This channel is consistently knocking it out of the park. Gotta be my favorite KZitemr.
@johnberner5320
Жыл бұрын
Fascinating analysis. I've noted that both Fellowship of the Ring chapters dealing with forests, "The Old Forest" and "Lothlorien," are both Chapter Six. In "The Old Forest," the hobbits are drawn to the southeast towards the Withywindle River, a stream associated with Goldberry. This place of maximum enchantment (and danger in the form of Old Man Willow) seems to be Goldberry's origin point. I haven't read The Adventures of Tom Bombadil in a long time but I recall a song or poem about Tom meeting her there. That Goldberry, such a benign character, comes from a mysterious and apparently sinister place indicates to me that the Old Forest is the kind of locale that reacts to the mental and physical viewpoints and actions of those passing through it.
@LordCivers
Жыл бұрын
The entire chapter has the best vibes. I've always felt it was unfairly viewed, i think the Old forest is my favourite place in Middle Earth, a feral and ancient place where you can get truly lost, and i love Tom/Goldberry quietly vibing amidst their hellhole of a forest because they know nothing can get to their all-powerful asses. And the surreal feeling... (the only thing that absolutely irks me is Tom bossing his wife like she's his maid, i mean i know this has been written in the 50s but come on they're fucking deities)
@stefanlaskowski6660
Жыл бұрын
I didn't see that at all. Tom obviously loves and respects Goldberg, and she reciprocates that love and respect. I think you're reading too much into it.
@LordCivers
Жыл бұрын
@@stefanlaskowski6660 well yes and no. Ofc they love and respect each other, but it isn't mutually exclusive with what i said. Although i admit it isn't as bad as i remembered ; i've just read it to answer you. And sure, "bossing around" is maybe too strong, english isn't my native language 🤷 What i meant is that Goldberry's only role is to tend to the guests and sing. When the hobbits and Tom stay late in the night to speak serious matter (like when Tom asks Frodo to lend him the Ring) she never attends, she goes to bed or is out for her "laundry and autumn cleansing day". And while Tom is revered by his guests for being an ancient, powerful and knowledgeable being, Goldberry is... beautiful, and that's about it. And soothing, but so is Tom too It still is my favourite part of the books tho, and i love the duo more than ever 🤷
@er6730
8 ай бұрын
@@LordCiversI agree with you, and especially as a teenager it raised my hackles. Now I'm middle aged, and I think it's mostly that she was uninterested in the ring, even less than Tom. She sees there are guests, she's hospitable and friendly, but she's got her own things to do and is very much of the attitude "don't bother me with trifles". (Possibly she's changing the actual season? I've never quite been sure about that) And of course, it fits with the whole "women aren't companions" vibe. Perhaps Tolkien saw real life the same way, due to a mixture of all-boys boarding school from a very young age, and the war? I think it was very different for people back then. If my son had been sent away at age 8, and after that only saw his mother and sisters (who would have been 3 and 5 when he left) for a few weeks of the year, he'd have a very different idea of what women and girls are like than what he does now.
@bwrochat7564
Жыл бұрын
Love your videos, Lexi. You delve into topics at a depth of philosophical thought, reflection, consideration, and analysis that I have only casually navigated as a reader all the while moving in a linear direction to the next chapter. You answer questions, confusion, and curiosities casual readers like me likely dismiss when we finish reading.
@backwashjoe7864
Жыл бұрын
For some reason, reading the comment section while musing about this video, triggered the thought of Goldberry meeting Galadriel, and the diva staring contest that would ensue. :)
@joannemoore3976
Жыл бұрын
His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster. I really enjoy the Tom chapters and there is a lot of development particularly for Frodo..it is also one of several respites in the story and one of the enchanted places. Great Vid 👍 and I also absolutely love the art work.
Пікірлер: 485