Awesome review Petr! :) I saw your bike in real life and it looked and felt very smooth and fast...on steep punchy climb, where we had battle together, out of saddle it looked very stiff and responsive, that I had hard time to hold your wheel...bottom bracket in this case is a shame :( nobody want to harm cats! anyway bike looks nice, even in this color option... P.S. you need to work on those calfs mate! :D
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi Milan, thanks for your comment. It made my day. 🤣 Yeah, calves are in progress. 😅
@tolulopeobe
2 ай бұрын
these Chinese brands are definitely pricing themselves out of the market. you can argue that this build is comparable to the highest end builds of major western brands for lower pricing but still. there are a few extras these major western brands offer, lifetime warranty or frames and wheels on some, easier and probably replacement if you get a damage or make a claim and many more reasons. nice bikes, but these prices make it a hard pill to swallow. Great video, great points for comparison especially with the price breakdown, that was nice touch. cheers.
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
Yeah, only time will tell if the brands survive or not. They have the sales numbers, so they can make more educated decisions.
@kristiaandoms2822
3 ай бұрын
II will never buy from Winspace again. Two years ago I bought the T1500 disc frameset. Two weeks ago when servicing the bike, I notice the topbearing was eating into the steerer ( ring of death). I contacted Winspace to buy a new fork. They answered they do not carry the T1500 spares any longer nor are they further produced. Their advice was to buy a new frameset. My subsequent emails remain ignored. I hope to find a manufacturer of forks to help me out. In Europe there is a law that manufacturers must carry parts stock for quite a long time. Not only does Winspace have a substandard customer service in China, but also do not make any attempt to propose a solution. Winspace? No forget it!
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi Kristiaan, I am sorry to hear that. Can you forward the pictures to petr@cyclistshub.com? I am curious to see the damage.
@davidgoon1978
3 ай бұрын
any fork with similar diameter will work i guess but inner cabling would be compromised
@IJustLikeBikes
3 ай бұрын
@davidgoon1978 The fork notches into the frame on the t1500 it looks like. Any fork will work, but the bike was clearly designed around that specific fork for aerodynamics.
@kristiaandoms2822
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub Will do .
@theovannieuwenhuizen5756
3 ай бұрын
That's really sad. Another reason NOT to buy Chinese. It's money down the drain.
@dannykwan7494
3 ай бұрын
Good stuff but pricey now, not worth at all.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi Danny, thanks for your comment. What is your limit for a frameset?
@pierrex3226
3 ай бұрын
The main reason why they're now so expensive is precisely because they shower KZitemrs and influencers with free stuff to get content, kick backs and so on. My oem frame comes from a factory that makes argon 18 frames. Costs 500 USD. They don't do discounts, samples, kick backs, their marketing budget is 0, and I hope it stays that way :) Factor said at one point that there was 1k USD of marketing in each and every frame they sell. Think about that.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Marketing costs are undoubtedly included in the price. However, if a brand has the ambition to become a major player, it can't do without them and brand building. There are customers, and you're likely to be among them, who don't care about the brand and are only after the utility of the product. But then there are a whole lot of those who care just as much about that subjectively perceived brand value. After all, cycling is one of the most elitist sports ever. 🙃 By the way, which factory/brand are you talking about? 😊 Otherwise, I've never ridden a Factor, but I looked at the frameset (priced at about $5000) up close and the details were perhaps even worse done than any cheap Chinese frame. 😬
@ynie1
3 ай бұрын
And...marketing costs a ton of money. Couple of examples, movie studios roughly spend 1/3 of total budget on marketing. Auto manufacturers spend roughly $2 to $4 billion on marketing. It's part of doing business in any industry unfortunately. As they say, if Nike made their shoes $5 and cut all of their marketing, they wouldn't sell a single shoe.
@pierrex3226
20 күн бұрын
@@ynie1 interesting perspective, but debatable. For example, Germany is strong because of its network of industrial SMEs. Do they advertise? No. You don't automatically have to advertise to sell your stuff, that sounds to me like an "American truth", because the US post WWII kind of invented modern marketing. Many good artisans don't, and haven't advertised. The factories I got my frames and wheels from are good artisans.
@repiola174
2 ай бұрын
Hi Petr, thank you for your review. Regarding your change of crank length, how tall are you and what's your inseam measurement? Best
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
I have 185cm and my inseam is 86cm. 😊
@repiola174
2 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub You were feeling pain with the 175mm crank? I have the same measurements than you both in height and inseam. That's why I find the topic even more interesting.
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
Sometimes my knees hurt in the winter or I was troubled by the IT band. But I mainly wanted to try shorter cranks. :-)
@klein-concept
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the mention man. Wicked video as always 🤜🤛
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Thanks a lot!
@sarahtoustra7127
3 ай бұрын
Chinese frames prices are going through the roof, just like western ones did a few years ago. Personnaly, I would never spend more than 2000€ on a chinese frame.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
What is your limit?
@pigupigu
3 ай бұрын
Newsflash. Your Western ones are also chinese
@shankeong6753
3 ай бұрын
I had the SLC and it served me well for the past 4 years. I echo the complaint on Winspace having weird geometry. Their frames are just too low and long for their size. Other than that, it rode well. I wont mind getting the Agile if the stack and reach was a bit more "normal" and the prices lower. Also agree that they are starting to price themselves out.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Well, the SLC is due for an update. I think Winspace could introduce it at Eurobike because they mentioned in their invitation that they will reveal a new frame. 😲
@bugabutu
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub I'm willing to buy their next slc if it still comes in rim brake at a lighter weight...
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
@@bugabutu I think the lower weight is almost guaranteed (why would they introduce a heavier new gen?), I am not sure about the rim brake version, though.
@bugabutu
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub the disc brake version only gonna be lower weight than the previous disc but certainly not the rim 🫤 This is all cause Joe from China cycling left
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
@@bugabutu I don't think Joe had the final word in terms of product range, tbh.
@frostytf2
3 ай бұрын
This is nice but the value doesn’t seem to be there… There are complete carbon bikes at 7.9KG bikes with 105 Di2 for $2500. How is this $2300+ frameset worth given the price of other Chinese options?
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi Levi, Thanks for your comment. Do you mean the Sava F20? Well, I don't have personal experience with it, so I can't compare the ride qualities. But as I explained in my other comment, some people care just about the product itself, and for some, the brand and things around (customer support, etc.) are also important aspects. In the end, it's up to you whether you find the frame worth buying or not. I hope to test more frames/bikes in the future to provide a more objective comparison.
@matkrek
3 ай бұрын
Which brands?
@TarmacSkin
2 ай бұрын
I think this frame is $1980. But the resale value is not there. You’ll be stuck w the frame if you want to resale it.
@marcvb3364
Ай бұрын
@@TarmacSkin Why even bother buying and building up a frame when you're already thinking about selling it? Then it's probably not the frame you should be buying in the first place.
@jaripulkkinen5838
5 күн бұрын
Thank you for a very good video. I will most likely continue riding Trek Madones which I am very satisfied with, I like the design and colours better than Winspace, their warranty is very good, also I have some bad experience with Chinese products. Not convinced with the Chinese quality after working and living there... Also I don't like the Chinese governments policies and actions regarding Taiwan and so called South China Sea. So no China bikes for me, no cars cars either. B t w, started following you on Strava 🙂. Keep on doing a good job!
@cyclistshub
5 күн бұрын
Hi, Jari, Thank you for sharing your experiences and opinions. I fully respect that, but I don't want to bring politics into reviewing products :-). Could you tell us more about your bad experiences with Chinese products? I'd also like to know more about your experiences working and living there :-). - Petr
@PatrickLino
3 ай бұрын
Nice video! Did you have to adjust your saddle height, fore/aft when switching to shorter cranks?
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Thank you, Patrick. Great question, the answer to which will be a bit longer to add the necessary context. I attended a professional bike fit with R12, and we found the ideal saddle height for that frame. It was interesting to see how even a 2mm change, for example, can lead to changes in pedaling feel. However, I attribute this to the fact that we were on the edge of being able to control the pedal stroke and losing control. When I built the Agile, I set the same saddle height as on the R12. I put the saddle in neutral and then looked for the ideal fore/aft and tilt. While testing the Agile, I also tested multiple saddles for a future review. In theory, shorter cranks should lead to a higher saddle position to compensate for the crank length. I tried raising the saddle, but it didn't feel quite right. So far, the original set height fits best. I'll see if I decide to make further adjustments, but I'd prefer to stick with a setup (including saddle type) that fits. 😅
@PatrickLino
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub makes sense thanks! I went with shorter cranks on my Allez Sprint. And I too felt the best when the saddle and height were the same as previous.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
@@PatrickLino, so it's basically the same scenario. 😅 In theory, I should raise the saddle by 10mm, but I tried that and would probably injure myself.
@onedelacruz3660
3 ай бұрын
Now we talking🥳✌️
@pskonejott2568
3 ай бұрын
like you i had a r12 for a few years now and agile caught my eyes mine is coming august !! :D
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
What a coincidence. :-D I hope you will share your thoughts here once you compare these two. :-)
@jameseastwood402
3 ай бұрын
I also have ridden an r12 but not for that long, only 6 months. I'm going to swap the frame out for a Seka Spear. For me the R12 was just too stiff... like riding a plank of wood. Hoping I'll feel the difference with the spear!
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Spear? Wow, that should be an UPGRADE! 😊
@LoscoeLad
Ай бұрын
@@jameseastwood402 the Spear is a good buy in rich countries, i think. not here!
@jetthepanda
3 ай бұрын
I was really interested in Chinese frames at one point, but now it seems like it's more cost effective to buy a used western brand locally.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
What was your budget/limit back then? :)
@jetthepanda
Ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub I picked up a Cannondale Supersix Evo 2021 ultegra disc for £1.2k. With a China frame, groupset, wheelset plus seatpost, stem, bars, tires and etc I feel like that would be a very tight budget.
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
@@jetthepanda Seems like a good buy!
@richardrengel2193
20 күн бұрын
Great frame, lousy Customer Service! So, I purchased a frame and rims from Winspace and moving the hardware from my Cervelo to the Winspace. Everything looks good, except there was no seatpost sent with the frame. Supposedly, is was in the fork box. Since it is an aero design, you cannot install a standard seatpost. The bike is build, but I have been going back-and-forth with Winspace for a month about the issue. The bike is ready to ride....and still not seatpost. They keep asking for photos of the boxes, which I send, but it is never a good-enough photo of what they are looking for. What the heck? Its just a seatpost, send one!!!! SO....for those of you considering the purchase of this frame, make sure you receive all your parts, lay them out ON THE BOXES, photo them thoroughly in case you later find out you are missing something and the boxes have been broken down and thrown away. Be ready for poor and frustrating customer service, if you need it.
@cyclistshub
20 күн бұрын
Hi Rich, I am sorry to hear about that. Feel free to contact me via email so I can help you to move this forward. - Petr
@sergerasklad
3 ай бұрын
great review, really
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Thank you, Serge, 😊
@lancercool1992
2 ай бұрын
$2700 is where the cervelo soloist is at, without cockpit… $1500 is about the max i’d pay for a winspace, $0 if it’s press fit bb, 10% off with code is very nice though
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
Not a fan of press fit bbs? 😅
@samgiamarelos4524
Ай бұрын
There's dropped seat stays then There's winspace saying 'hold my 🍺 '
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
Haha, yeah. 😀
@LoscoeLad
Ай бұрын
I don't think Seka care about the west (nor East), but are focusing on the chinese domestic market. also can't understand how winspace charge the same price in all counrties.. it will take me over a year to save up for a frame and wheels here in Thailand, while in Europe, one month's salary would suffice. Shimano and all common bike brands run similar scams. short sighted big pity on the bottom bracket: their slc3.0 has a press-fit bb, which i will go nowhere near! strange thinking in the company
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
Hey, I think you could be interested in this research I did: www.cyclistshub.com/s-works-sl8-index/
@BS-jw7nf
Ай бұрын
they usually usue M sizes for their weight figures in marketing, so they were probably shaving grams off.
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
The official weight is for an unpainted frame. I assume that this painting ads 100-150g.
@jirirozkosny4358
3 ай бұрын
Great review, keep it up
@Sam321go
3 ай бұрын
pls do something about your vioce
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
What do you mean, Sam?
@ATDreamLand
3 ай бұрын
Thank you, has been looking for review of Agile
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
You are welcome. 👍 I believe this is one of the first ones. 😊
The T1550 2nd Gen. Frameset seems a better buy. Its more known, a bit cheaper and now has a T47 bottom bracket and has been updated due to user requets. Interestingly its also a bit lighter than the the Agile. Definitely on my bucket list
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi Cornel, good point. I like the shapes of the Agile more, but you are right that T1550 could be a more interesting prospect for some. :-)
@EJD200
3 ай бұрын
Nice video! The one thing I keep seeing overlooked in the Chinese frame price discussion is that it normally only comes from the European, USA and Australian POVs but I changed drastically in other markets like Latam, where any bike related product from the established brands tend to be 20% more expensive with more limited options and availability specifically in frame set only and from what I’ve seen other markets experience the same In this case this price hikes still make this bikes a really good option against others
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! You got a good point and you are right. I am from Europe, so I have very limited knowledge of the situation in South America. However, I recently created an "SL8 index" (it tells you how long you have to work for an S-Works SL8 considering the price in the given country and average salary), and the SA countries are in the top (they have to work the longest): www.cyclistshub.com/s-works-sl8-index/
@EJD200
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub this index is amazing and shows exactly what I'm talking about. And I totally get the limited POV, since South America and SEA lack youtubers it's hard to show the situation so I just like to add some info to this ongoing debate about pricing
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
@@EJD200 thank you, yeah, it took a lot of time to put together. :-D
@LoscoeLad
Ай бұрын
western bike brands will hopefully get closed down for ripping people off for years.. but the Chinese brands will keep hiking their stuff ever more expensive until they also get replaced, I presume. Cycling is too expensive as a hobby on all bit the highest salaries. pretty shit actually
@andrewspatz1358
26 күн бұрын
peter, how tall are you and how much do you weigh? thanks for the great videos. andy trying to size an AGILE. I am 5'-7" tall and weigh 129 lb. not sure about buying a Medium or Large size
@andrewspatz1358
26 күн бұрын
thanks, andy
@andrewspatz1358
26 күн бұрын
not sure about size medium or large
@cyclistshub
26 күн бұрын
Hi Andy, I am 185 cm and 67 kg. My inseam length is 86cm. Considering your measurements, I would choose an S size with a longer stem for the more aggressive position or an M size with a shorter stem for a more comfortable one. Definitely not L size. That would be too large for you.
@theovannieuwenhuizen5756
3 ай бұрын
Nice review, really appreciate all your time and effort to make these videos. However... How much am I willing to pay for a Chinese bike? Nothing. Taiwanese is okay but Chinese with their very dodgy return policies and lottery style delivery I'm not betting any money on them. Your frameset may be top quality but there's no telling what the next buyer will receive. I'd much rather have local support for my bike and support my own community.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Thank you, Theo. 😊 I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong about the "dodgy return policies" and "lottery-style delivery." Chinese brands have improved significantly over the past four years. Some are serious and invest much time and effort into improving their operations. I fully understand the argument for the support of your community/local store, though. But what if your local distributor starts offering a Chinese brand?
@ynie1
3 ай бұрын
Very nice! At the end of this year, I'm planning on building a race bike with the ability to fit 34mm tires. I'm debating between the Winspace Agile and Tavelo Arrow that will be released soon. Really like the T47 bottom bracket, too.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Thank you. :-) Yeah, there is a big ongoing push of the Tavelo Attack/Arrow. It would be a nice to compare it with Agile. 😊
@bpmurgacz
2 ай бұрын
Did you move the saddle when you changed the crank length?
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
No, I kept is as it was and it feels ok. So, it's possible that I had my saddle too high previously (even after having a bike fit).
@abhimawa1
3 ай бұрын
I thought this bike inspired the fork and headtube of the new Pinarello Dogma? 😁
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Haha, yeah, the similarities are there. 😀
@MrVizzle
3 ай бұрын
500e that's what I would pay for frame made out of glue and carbon thread
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Ding ding, congratulations for winning the comment of the day. 🥳
@Dustydayzz
2 ай бұрын
how do the BB stiffness compare between the bikes?
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
I honestly can't tell. As I said in the video, I am a pretty lightweight rider, so can't spot a difference when spriting. Both bikes feel stiff to me. 🤷♂️
@endtimeslips4660
3 ай бұрын
im curious to rider said 50mm wheels is stable in the crosswind. wonder how they ride.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi, it's all relative to other 45mm or 50mm wheels I tested. Of course, shallower wheels are even more stable. :-) If you are interested in wheel reviews, check out my channel or website where you find plenty of them.
@NeoPayneHK
3 ай бұрын
you can really try the 52/34 and 11-40 now🤣
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Once I have time to experiment, why not. 🤣
@valiantabello
3 ай бұрын
Good job on this review, thank you 👍☺️
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Thank you. I think this is my best one yet. :-)
@iamleeway00
Ай бұрын
great review,thank you bro!
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
Thank you. I am glad you like it. 😊
@Ghost12561
2 ай бұрын
canyon cf slx for sure
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
Would you ever consider a Chinese bike?
@Ghost12561
2 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub I believe they will take over the cycling industry in the next 5-10 years but for now Ill stick with western brand unless a brand made it to the pro-peleton.
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
Hm... Time will tell! If I play a devils advocate, women's team Winspace made it to pro peloton at this year's Vuelta Femenina. 😅
@Dustydayzz
2 ай бұрын
2:19 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@cyclistshub
2 ай бұрын
Finally someone reacted to the joke! 😅
@Dustydayzz
2 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub 😁was a nice one
@thomasrobert3929
3 ай бұрын
Hello, since you have switched to 165mm cranks, I wanted to know your inseam measurement? THANKS
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi Thomas, I am 185cm and have an inseam length of 86cm.
@thomasrobert3929
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub thank you very much for your answer ,want to try 165 mm to ;)
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Sure thing. :-)
@skotsephrenia1
3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the Reviews mate...how about ICAN triAero A9 frame...i wonder if you have tested them from before..... . Im interested on that frame set but couldnot find reviews on you tube Hope you have a good day
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Hi Diether, Thank you. :-) No, I have not tested it.
@skotsephrenia1
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub thank you for Ur urgent comment... Hope you can build it as well in the future..♥️
@onedelacruz3660
3 ай бұрын
Was that different from iCan that TraceVelo built?✌️
@Bultish
Ай бұрын
waiting for black week and the t1550 gen 2 👍 thanks for the video 🤘
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
Nice! Which wheels are you going to buy for that build?
@Bultish
Ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub Im thinking of Hyper 3 D67. But when you said you size L comes in at 7,8kg with d45 I wonder if I should go lighter wheels? Im 80kg and 189cm so I'll need the largest frame. Im an allrounder (maybe most diesel 😄) and I just like the thought of a sub 8kg aero bike.. Im going for Ultegra also so no gains on drive train compared to your setup. What is your tire setup? tubes or tubeless, tubolito or standard tube? Thanks 🤙
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
Hm... I think you won't notice 200g weight difference in your setup that much, as you are big (probably) powerful rider. Especially, if you are diesel and not puncher/climber. :-) But I understand that the 8kg is tempting. I use Tufo Comtura 4 TR 28mm tires. They are not the fastest/lightest, but have an excellent puncture protection.
@dbgrand
3 ай бұрын
For me personally I would not pay more than 1k USD for frame, same with wheels. But I'm far from being a good cyclist😅 Right now I'm in the process of completing parts for my Chinese built bike. I have Hygge frame for 600 and Elite wheels for 400. Searching for a good price for the groupset.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
Ltwoo maybe? :-)
@dbgrand
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub I was thinking more about Sensah HRD, because I don't like thumb shifters in Ltwoo. But watching the price of 12 speed 105 from second hand I think I will go this way. Adding to Sensah crankset, cassette, bottom bracket and disc brakes will cost the same as 105 uninstalled new from bikes.
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
That makes sense. :-) 105 is a good groupset. The only issue I have with it is that it doesn't have the hidden buttons (they knew why they included it in Ultegra and DA only :-D).
@dbgrand
3 ай бұрын
@@cyclistshub I was thinking about new mechanical 105 ;)
@cyclistshub
3 ай бұрын
@@dbgrand oh, ok. You will have plenty of space to upgrade later if necessary. 😊
@tomnguyen3829
Ай бұрын
Based on your height and inseam length, 165mm cranks are not ideal for maximizing performance and comfort
@cyclistshub
Ай бұрын
Sometimes, the "rules" don't apply. I feel much better with 165mm than with 175mm.
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