So basically in range tv is holding their own version of a rifle trials. And they're bringing us along for the ride
@SnarkyPosters
7 жыл бұрын
"...in range tv is holding their own version of a rifle trials." But does it have magazine cutoff? :D
@Ben_not_10
7 жыл бұрын
SnarkyPosters awh thems fightin words sir. Well have no stinking mag cutoffs
@SnarkyPosters
7 жыл бұрын
[19th century U.S. Army Ordnance Corps intensifies]
@ZGryphon
7 жыл бұрын
+Dellacondan And a magazine cutoff.
@BicyclesMayUseFullLane
7 жыл бұрын
How do you fight them rebs without bayonet??
@DMStraylight
7 жыл бұрын
This project keeps getting more interesting the deeper we go. For the record, I totally want a WWSD t-shirt.
@ganymedeaerospace4580
7 жыл бұрын
DMStraylight Seconding the t-shirt request.
@BurningMonkey
7 жыл бұрын
I am totally on board for the t-shirt as well
@ducktapepilot
7 жыл бұрын
Great idea, I would love to buy a WWSD shirt as well.
@fuzzydunlop7928
7 жыл бұрын
Aye!
@brianreddeman951
7 жыл бұрын
I agree, a simple black lettering WWSD with a generic AR-15 and an example Karl and Ian come up with below it
@sethrich5998
7 жыл бұрын
I definitely agree optics have shifted the expectations of roles. Doorkickers have gone from irons to red dot, Rifleman have gone from irons/early low power optics to rugged fixed power optics, DMR has gone from low fixed power to low variable optics, and sniper has gone from mid fixed to mid to high variable power optics. As a result the expectation of ability from each has increased.
@MrTrilbe
7 жыл бұрын
The expectations shifted at least 31 years ago with the UK (other countries may have got there first) when they moved from the SLR with SUIT in a DMR role to the SA80 with the SUSAT as standard equipment.
@wierdalien1
7 жыл бұрын
MrTrilbe we were pretty early
@Osmosium2507
7 жыл бұрын
Your concept has a lot of similarities with modern military rifles that are not an AR-15, like the HK G36. It is completely made out of polymer, has low weight, uses optical/reddot as primary sight, is completely ambi.
@Rynosaur94
7 жыл бұрын
Kilian Schnitzel Unfortunately, when the G36 was made, polymer materials were just not mature and the Germans have paid the price. A lot od G36s have melted or had broken stocks.
@Holret
7 жыл бұрын
sources? I haver never heard of melting G36's thats rediculous.
@rossmum
7 жыл бұрын
The Bundeswehr are rather unhappy because in relatively hot climates, any notable amount of rapid fire heats the trunnion enough to throw accuracy out the window. It's been an ongoing drama for some time and really came to light alongside Germany's involvement in Afghanistan. HK's defence was essentially that they built the rifle the military asked for... which draws some interesting parallels with a particular (though much more spectacularly troublesome) rifle Ian recently uploaded a series on...
@M4xFr4gg
7 жыл бұрын
rossmum some loud people in the BW are unhappy, because the G36 surprisingly can not shoot 3 mags straight on full auto and after that deliver accurate single shots. This now will probably lead to a new German rifle, which will look a lot like a M4 or a HK416
@SteveSmith-wm4qy
7 жыл бұрын
more likely it will be the HK433
@Anusideral
7 жыл бұрын
Best gun channel content ever. You guys are awesome.
@xenemorphstamp
7 жыл бұрын
the decision to choose a magnified optic for every rifleman reminds me very much of the british experience in northern Ireland and the subsequent adoption of the SUIT and later SUSAT systems. perhaps a fixed magnification sight with backup red dot like on british Elcan and Acog sights would be a good idea
@othellocarr-jones7580
7 жыл бұрын
You could also try what the British do. Fixed 4x elcan with a micro red dot on top. Not saying it's better but it would be interesting to see
@fender_ketchup
7 жыл бұрын
As much as I'd love to see a SpecterDR on the rifle, it would suck to shed all that weight just to gain it back with that tank of a scope.
@littlejohnny47
7 жыл бұрын
Great series guys! Being a pistol only shooter and not even wanting to handle an M-16 again, I am still hooked on the idea here and your very good way of finding an update on "what would stoner do?" Watch every video and enjoy watching how these guns work in matches under timer! Bravo!!
@gebeme11
7 жыл бұрын
I would be equally interested in hearing why you don't like one product as why you do like another product. I find negative reviews as helpful as positive.
@PH-hk8mb
Жыл бұрын
I really like 2-7 and 3-9 low weight scope options with a offset red dot on the ar15, lots of low weight and budget friendly options that are very capable
@i7s3a7a3c
7 жыл бұрын
This content is why I'm a patreon supporter, building my first ar15, and making it a wwsd project. You guys are awesome!
@thatguy3428
7 жыл бұрын
I'm loving this content. While I doubt I will attempt to replicate the WWSD format exactly, I find the optics and roles discussion very interesting. My work rifle is setup very much like the door kicker for exactly the reasons put forward. I'm building a "DMR" for fun and I've noticed the more I build it that all I'm doing is making a M16A4 like I had in the Corps but improved. I couldn't agree more that the DMR of yesterday is the rifleman of today.
@bigvisk1125
7 жыл бұрын
if I was going fixed power is probably go with a 3.5 or 4x acog. a red dot with magnifier can be versatile but more fragile. an elcan is great but $$ and heavy. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.
@Ford11Fiesta
7 жыл бұрын
big visk I agree on the ACOG. Its durable, and easy to use. They can be pricey, but still cheaper than an Elcan.
@Alan-bw2zg
7 жыл бұрын
Chris Freeman buy once cry once.
@dbmail545
7 жыл бұрын
big visk I have two BCO (Browe Combat Optic ) on my guns. Very similar to an ACOG with a titanium body and a custom assembly (which means you wait😠)
@SWEmanque
7 жыл бұрын
Based on hunting I wouldn't have anything higher than x3. You are going to have a real hard time fighting people closer than 50 meters with anything higher than x3. x3 will also leave you very effective at 100 - 350 meters. Anything further away than 350 meters is for DMRs.
@survivalcomms
7 жыл бұрын
Enjoying this series immensely. Great information well presented. Thanks for sharing !
@larsmurdochkalsta8808
3 жыл бұрын
I know it's probably not going to happen but watching this video has me hoping they'll do it what would Stoner do 2023 for the AR-10 as the "DMR"
@sawyernorthrop4078
2 ай бұрын
I mean one of Stoner's last projects iirc was the SR-25 so we pretty much know already lol
@Real_Tech_Skills
7 жыл бұрын
I love the deep research and testing topics. I did this in-depth soul searching for my version of "my" ultimate AR-15 build. Primary Arms ACSS 1-6X Gen 3 scope might be a very good choice for the optic on the 18" rifle. I would love to see you try out the Superlative Arms Bleed Off Gas block and (my preferred choice) the Superlative Arms Piston Gas Block (solid mount).
@NG-VQ37VHR
7 жыл бұрын
I love how serious you guys are taking this project. It's one of my favorite things you guys have done. I really appreciate the effort you guys put into this and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.
@tzet49
7 жыл бұрын
Two cents from a Rifleman (USMC 0311) I like the fact that you talked about a being able to identify your target this brings up an important point. In my opinion you have to remember that this rifle will not only be for combat/shooting but an extension of your body. When i used my RCO (ACOG) it was more often then not for observation and figuring out WTF is that. I was quite frustrated with the 4x magnification of the RCO and not being able to see far enough to identify what I was looking at. I was also not super fond of the 4x in a MOUT (CQB) setting. Which leads me to believe A 1-6 or 1-8 power would be an outstanding All around Riflemen's optic
@davesims3471
7 жыл бұрын
Love what you guys are doing with the WWSD videos!
@dcwillis87
7 жыл бұрын
I'm sure someone else has suggested this to you guys, but have you considered using an Elcan Specter? It has the switch between 1x and 4x, which seems like it would be perfect for this role. No fumbling with twisting knobs, just flipping a switch. Anyways love the concept so far! 👍👍 Edit: that's what I get for posting it before watching the whole thing..... Ian just mentioned it...
@TheExaminedLifeofGaming
7 жыл бұрын
I'm really looking forward to your adventures into general purpose optics! It's something I think about but never really experimented with; my AR is a mongrel right now, stuck halfway between hunting use and general use. For hunting or target shooting, I love a 3-9 power scope. Lots of magnification makes shooting at longer range comfortable and gratifying. But I'm intrigued by red dot options, or low 1-4/1-6 adjustable optics. Maybe you'll find that the best option is just a fixed power ACOG or similar. Or maybe there is some utility in those low-power optics. Can't wait to find out!
@Player_Review
7 жыл бұрын
You guys make a fantastic duo. Complimenting each other's expertise so well. I hope you two design a rifle someday that gets built.
@dbmail545
7 жыл бұрын
I really liked the long chat you guys did with the diverse group where the doorkickers felt like you were better trained than the infantrymen.
@hickfarmer04
7 жыл бұрын
Great project and I like seeing the refinement over time. If cost considerations weren't a concern. The DMR transitioning to the general purpose rifle should mean a corresponding reduction in barrel length- 14.5-16" unsupressed gets the velocity to reach out to 600+ but is also the longest manageable length for room clearing, both capabilities are needed in the general purpose force. If suppressors are a thing then 12.5-14" and a mini suppressor comes into play to keep that 16" length. For reaching to 600, the general accepted magnification requirement is 1x for every 100 yards (Defoor, Pannone) so a 1-6 would be the minimum. 1-8x would give wiggle room but is right on the technological edge right now. 1-6x is much more proven, has wider availability, and cost effectiveness.
@cmillerphotos
7 жыл бұрын
Just discovered your channel this weekend. Loving this project, and they way you guys think. Wish I could meet guys like you in the local gun community.
@HaqqAttak
7 жыл бұрын
When I was deployed the DM guy was issued both a scoped M14 and an m16a4 with an acog. Everything was mission dependent. This allowed the DM guy to be both the best rifleman or the sniper.
@siestatime4638
7 жыл бұрын
I've already switched to low magnification scopes because my eyes are getting too old for iron sights. *sigh*
@m2hmghb
7 жыл бұрын
I hope that you guys will group scopes by price point as well, such as the best under 300, the best 300-600 and so on and so forth.
@jamesheinson1249
7 жыл бұрын
I like my primary arms 6x magnifier red dot combo. As long as you don't go cheap on the magnifier mount it's a solid setup
@Bender711
7 жыл бұрын
my solution to this was pretty close to yours. 14.5in carbine= 1.5x acog. 18in rifle = 4x acog. 20in dmr = 2.5-10x scope.
@Bender711
7 жыл бұрын
EastPhilly you're probably right from a practical standpoint that a 16in would work for all roles well enough. the only thing that the barrel length is going to really change is the max range fragmentation of the bullet is likley. which is what like 150 yards for a 14in and maybe 300 for a 20", depending on bullet? That and it makes the gun look more like the role it is intended for. which is admittedly is for own amusement more than anything.
@Porty1119
7 жыл бұрын
EastPhilly All of my ARs use 20" barrels. With a collapsible stock, the longer barrel is more of a help than a hindrance, except for mechanized infantry. It's even plenty handy when clearing structures.
@cutworm59
7 жыл бұрын
Yall built a better than issued Cetme l. Now a better than bought AR 15. How about building a reliable 30 carbine? How's that for a challenge boys!
@GRobsTravels
5 жыл бұрын
The Optics for every combat rifleman is something the British have done for quite some time. The thing is as we found in Afghanistan, although you might be able to identify targets at distance better, the ballistics of 5.56 are compromised at serious range. Hence the introduction of the Sharpshooter rifle for DMR.
@joshuablair7028
4 жыл бұрын
Watching this project develop is so damn interesting
@Zbyhonj
7 жыл бұрын
Good day to you, I love your content and especially the WWSD project. To show my gratitude, here's an intrusive question: Is the 5.56 truly applicable for that 600 yard capability standard? It sure is accurate enough and the 75gr pill makes a lot of difference, but we're still talking a +500m shot and that's a range where the 5.56's efficiency seriously starts to dwindle. A true assault rifle is a concept created for engagements under 300 meters. IMO, it can not be effectively pushed to the 500+ range and role; not while maintaining it's core characteristics of light weight, manageable recoil and a true intermediate cartridge chambering. Correct me if that's not true. This question is not restricted to Karl and Ian, anyone who has something to say is welcome. Thanks for answers, I'm kinda running my own thought experiment on the 'standard issue rifle' topic and I'm really curious about your experience and opinions.
@Porty1119
7 жыл бұрын
Zbyhonj I think that's a very valid question. The 500-600m range is where one tends to transition to machine guns and other crew-served weapons. Infantry rifles are not really needed at that range, so 5.56's reduced performance is not really a large concern.
@Zbyhonj
6 жыл бұрын
I got my answer, eventually. In the latest Q&A video, Ian explicitely said that the ideal DMR should be chambered in something along the lines of 6.5 creedmoor, which is fair enough IMO.
@sap2568
7 жыл бұрын
You guys are great, love everything about your show. But, I seemed to have missed something....why no ACOG? Can I assume it's because of the cost?
@colsoncustoms8994
6 жыл бұрын
maybe weight?
@AKGuru4774
4 жыл бұрын
Trust me, ACOGs are the cheapest they have ever been at 900USD. These two have no worries about buying that. It is about weight. The whole entire series is WWSD, making the lightest weight and usable rifle/Carbine for todays infantry and just for the pure shits of doing it.
@muscledogmafia6747
7 жыл бұрын
Love the work you two do.
@chadpunte1731
7 жыл бұрын
certain parts work better with other certain parts. An example would be a TA01 works much better with an adjustable stock. Set stock for nose to charging handle. set acog for eye relief. The most consistent I've ever been was this set up. I then switched to a fixed stock which doesn't allow nose to charging handle, and also forced me to move the acog further back obscuring my charging handle.
@uglierthanmemh
7 жыл бұрын
Have you guys looked into the Primary Arms 1x-4x with the illuminated ACSS reticle? Great series. Keep it coming.
@CraigorysJorts
7 жыл бұрын
I checked the weights of the Primary Arms 2.5x Prism and compared it against the Steiner P4Xi 1-4x and the Trijicon Accupower 1-4x and you were only gaining about an ounce or two for either of the variables, add in another 3 ounces for an Aero lightweight mount and you might be in the right neighborhood for what you want. Especially if you swap the 18" barrel for a 16" barrel. The velocity gains are minimal for the difference in barrel length, the rifle will be handier, shave weight, and the mechanical accuracy will be the same. Which brings you back to the original argument. How much feature creep and weight are you willing to add for the capabilities that you want the rifle to have. I will say however that this project has a lot of my attention and has me swapping the optic on my AR every 2 weeks and thinking about switching out my barrel and furniture trying to figure out what the best general purpose rifle is.
@jumperharz6270
7 жыл бұрын
hey guys, i really like the concept of a dual optic, as done on german army G36. A reddot ontop of a low power scope is a great combination for a wide field of applications.
@sam15482
7 жыл бұрын
This "do it all" rifle concept reminds me of the scout rifle idea that never really found a true champion. It would be interesting to see this series come to a valid conclusion with video evidence of the concept's success' in competition and vs training scenarios with standard ARs.
@TwentythreePER
7 жыл бұрын
I love the WWSD project. I have one question though, if the once DMR is now the Rifleman's rifle do you still like the 18" barrel for it? I'm thinking 16" would drop even more weight and length especially with a suppressor, plus it should shift less. Though I'm not sure if the velocity is sufficient at 600 yards for what you want to do. Regardless, I'm very interested in the project and looking forward for more. By the way, it would be great if you made a WWSD playlist.
@chrisfossetta994
7 жыл бұрын
Karl and Ian, I beg to differ with your statement that GWACS is the only lower that is built with polymer in mind. I bought a plumb crazy lower Gen 2 complete, it even has a polymer hammer and trigger group. I bought it as a goof to bring it to a shoot with guys that had " high end" ARs. I put a bare bones upper on it and shot the hell out of it and it was flawless. I dropped on purpose through sand on it and it ran all day. I am not saying its better then the gwacs just letting you know that this lower is pretty damn good for 89$ complete. Plum Crazy Gen 1 had problems from what I red but the Gen 2 is a lifetime warranty and the polymer is infused with Teflon. to date I have run well over 1000 rounds through it and the Teflon/polymer hammer has no physical signs of wear. maybe after the WWSD is over you guys can review this lower. and they are an Arizona company to boot love In Range and FW too keep up the great work
@stevenschumacher5566
7 жыл бұрын
For optics, I really like the Vortex Strike Eagle, I have both 1-6 and 1-8 power models. As with most scopes on a hard use gun, unless you get good mounts from the start, the mounts will fail before the scope does.
@Rralover
7 жыл бұрын
"Sub components"? Maybe one piece gas ring? Flat wire buffer spring? Can't wait to find out!
@LIETUVIS10STUDIO1
7 жыл бұрын
If you're going with a rifleman's rifle, you need to make sure it's squaddy proof as well. Need to remember how easy it is to use and to learn. Also I think a fixed magnification + red dot at 45 degrees or on top of a scope is an idea to try. A rifleman's rifle should be able to go into door-kicker carbine environment if needed what with logistics and all without eye relief problems at short range.
@LoneRanger869
7 жыл бұрын
Karl, you made a comment about a modern rifle match shooter announcing a specific rifle to be "the solution"or the 'ideal' rifle for their needs and a current or former soldier announcing a different rifle to be "the solution" or 'ideal' rifle for their needs, and I would agree with you on both parts. However then you said there has to be a middle-ground where you and Ian can find the perfect 'rifleman's rifle'. Perhaps it was a slip of the tongue or an honest mistake, but I would hazard to comment that you will find no rifle (nor will you be able to build a rifle) which excels at both standard infantry combat and shooting competition disciplines. The nature of the needs in both cases will be different enough that I feel a middle-ground between the two will leave you with something which would cause you to miss out on potentially better rifles in both individual categories. Just my two cents, but enjoy these videos anyways.
@Jasruler
6 жыл бұрын
Lone Ranger I fully agree with you about the fact that if you build a rifle for two distinct applications it will miss out on things that would make it better at either of the single applications. However I would say that they want to build the rifle in equilibrium rather than a middle ground. You will see that when Karl mentions the middle ground he makes a little X shape with his fingers. That's a gesture for the most basic graphic representation of equilibrium between two disparate but related things, like supply and demand or security and practicality. I hope they get this rifle as close to the intersection of the two lines on the "x" graph as possible -- which would position it as the ideal 556 AR style PLATFORM. That is to say a gun which is initially completely competent at everything, and with only quick non-armorer modifications to the platform it could become exceptional at a specific job. It sounds pedantic to distinguish between middle ground and equilibrium but there is a connotation that middle ground is "close enough" whereas equilibrium implies "exactly enough." Again not disagreeing with you just sharing my expectations and assumptions about the goal: exactly enough, not close enough. That was really what the AR stood for from a design perspective -- exactly enough, admittedly perhaps to a fault, to accomplish the tasks asked of it.
@jamiewiley6853
7 жыл бұрын
interesting developments of the project. beware of repeating history with your findings. As the DMR becomes the standard rifle there is a need to fight in close quaters.....so make it shorter.....so scope the door kicker, but now it needs a heavier barrel fo accuracy out to 600 (potentially im not knowledgeable enough to confirm that) and you end up with a SOCOM rifle with CF and polymer bits. Frankly this would be a pretty interesting conclusion in itself as it would show that approaching the subject of combat rifles from two different directions yields the same results. Keep up the great work and educational content, glad to see the patreon contributions are generating excellent content as always
@dekstehnrasta741
7 жыл бұрын
You're on the right track. We want to go on the mental journey of what works for what situation, and what doesn't, with you. We are prepared to invest the time for a long term outcome instead of a ten minute video of your "best AR build". If we wanted that we would be watching any number of other gun channels. You give us what they do not, and for that we thank you.
@Ghatbkk
3 жыл бұрын
I think there is a misconception being stated here. Giving every rifleman a weapon with a decent barrel and a magnified optic won't make every man a Designated Marksman. The fact is that the majority of Infantrymen can't consistently hit a man size target at 300 meters, never mind at 600 meters. The marksmanship training that the military provides simply doesn't include enough training time or enough rounds expended to create anywhere close to that capability/ability. To effectively engage targets in a designated marksman from a military point of view means: 1. Select the best marksmen in the unit (the guys who hit 38-40 on the qualification range). 2. Giving them the additional training on target identification, use of optics, windage and range estimation, etc. That training is more important than the weapon. Now, having the standard rifle be a weapon which in trained and talented hands capable of the DMR role is a good thing. But it won't make every rifleman in a squad a designated marksman.
@NoDakSpud
7 жыл бұрын
Great project guys. This is the most thoughtful and intelligent approach to this question I have yet to see online.My "go-to" AR is similar to your riflemans gun, except I basically made an M16A1 w/flat top, red dot, and round handguards.Mike, Co-Owner, NoDak Spud
@Porty1119
7 жыл бұрын
NoDakSpud That sounds similar to mine. It started off as an M16A1, and has morphed into a Magpul'd C7A2 with a C7 carry handle upper.
@Ring3R
5 жыл бұрын
Love your guys' builds, some really smart and unconventional parts choices. I have some comments for the possible future WWSD DMR project. I know you guys are not sold on the .224 Valkyrie (10% increase in performance comments, etc), but I think you might have skimmed over some of the benefits. Or maybe not, I know you put a ton of thought into all your stuff. Hoping you give my long ass post a read. It might only have 10% extra capacity, but it's specifically designed to take really heavy bullets, with significantly better ballistic coefficient numbers. Federal is having teething pains with the 90gr Sierra SMK load right now, which seems to be bullet related, but the 88gr ELD-M performs really well. I built an AR around a 22 inch carbon fiber Proof barrel, and used components very similar to yours. The lower receiver you used isn't readily available right now, so I did go with an adjustable carbine stock, but I picked the lightest MFT one available. Everything else is very similar, with a carbon fiber barrel instead of a pencil. I use the second setting on the stock adjustment, keeping it very short overall, and a cantilever mount for a 2-10x Burris XTR-II to put it far enough out, essentially reducing length of pull enough that my 22 inch barreled rifle is as long as a standard 18 inch AR. 45 degree offset battery free RMR for close up/back-up, which I do think is a requirement when dealing with a scope that doesn't have a 1x setting. My build comes in at 7.9lbs, which isn't prohibitivly weighty. Obviously not as handy as the carbines you guys built, but they couldn't shoot to 1000 yards. This can, and is still moderately useful in close-in. So, basically a DMR. At 1000 yards, it's still supersonic and carrying more energy than 77gr 5.56 at 600 yards, with way less bullet drop. And the recoil is indistinguishable. So yeah, DMR. I handload, and I've got a 2650fps 88gr load that does sub .5 MOA, so MORE than good enough for a DMR.....but I think a match load using the same bullet would be perfectly fine for the military, and provide MOA. The gun is certainly capable. And that's the whole benefit of .224 Valkyrie and why it would actually be a good choice. You can load it with the standard 77gr (or 62gr, or 55gr) bullet from the 5.56 and get 100-150fps more velocity. Or you can load it with 88-90gr bullet that is unavailable for 5.56 and get 1000 yard performance with no recoil. And all it requires is a new bolt, barrel, and magazine. You can make the exact same rifle, and do it in 16 inch variations for the standard door kicker (put a short flash hider and an inch shorter length of pull and it's the same length as your 14.5 inch M4) with a marginal improvement in performance, or you can put a 22 inch barrel on it, no other changes required, and reach out to 1000 yards. It certainly does not replace an actual sniper rifle.....it's not powerful enough. But it WILL make hits well past (and more easily) .308 ranges, and it's light......and can still fire the standard ammo if you don't have the specific match load available. You can even zero the 45 degree sights for the standard ammo instead of the match stuff. I think that fits, perfectly, the concept of the DMR. And it's why I think the caliber is such a great idea. 6.8spc bolt, valkyrie barrel, 6.8 mags (the ACS ones work the best, totally reliable for me)....and good to go.
@TwentythreePER
7 жыл бұрын
I like this WWSD project. Very interesting. By the way, I'm loving the French rifle wall behind you. So many Lebels!
@hrentr
7 жыл бұрын
seems like you are heading in this direction. Doorkicker with silencer in semi-auto for room clearing as well as M1 Carbine role, for tankers & drivers. Doorkicker full auto for squad leader instead of an SMG. Rifleman would take place of M1 Garand. Long Range marksmen 308, 6.5 swede, .276 pederson with similar optics to Rifleman. Using a large common parts pool. Some conversion by Armorer would be possible.
@LYLEWOLD
7 жыл бұрын
would you cover your sighting choice (25, 50, 100 yards, ...?) and thinking on the red dot for the cqb? seems like the bore-axis / line of sight difference comes more into play at shorter distances. also, is there an optimum bullet weight, or is that still being determined, or is the project meant to be bullet weight neutral?
@kenibnanak5554
7 жыл бұрын
LoL, so far my Bushnell TRS-25 with a UTG 3x flip to side magnifier meets all of my 'in the woods' needs (thank you Amazon). Of course combat capable isn't my goal. Almost as important as weight is balance. I love how with a rail I can just slide things back and forth till the sweet spot is found. (very) Long ago I stuck a Weaver scope on a Trapper Win 94 carbine. I was shocked at how clumsy and unbalanced what had previously been a pretty handy little gun. I ditched the scope and stuck with the irons till I sold that gun.
@chzzyg2698
7 жыл бұрын
I was several things in the ARMY, mostly combat infantry, but also a company armorer. I learned quite a bit about the AR during my time there. A year after getting out, I built what I called the perfect AR, low on frills, and all utilitarian. The cost came out to roughly $1300. It's mostly melonited, Faxon barrel 1:8, Ranger Proof BCG, Magpul fixed stock, Geissele SSA, HK teflon buffer tube, Midwest SS hand guard, yadda yadda yadda. The goal was to mix and match as many manufacturers as possible, save money on parts that matter the least, and go big on parts that matter the most. In the end, I'm super happy with the end product. Being almost all melonite, I know it'll last until my great grandchildren have their own great grandchildren. Something I discovered from the experience is that the AR is constantly evolving. If the military decides to keep the platform, I think it'd be a great idea. I'm now working on a M16A1 clone. Buying an already assembled AR is boring, build it. It's a very rewarding process.
@Char-nu9ir
2 жыл бұрын
That was a great conversation.
@roomonfire99
7 жыл бұрын
Really enjoying this series guys. Especially the now evolution of the additional dmr. Do you think there's an arguement for that not to be 5.56?
@JosephDragunov
7 жыл бұрын
Great discussion! I hunt deer in the Sonoran desert. In my experience 3x magnification is good out to 200 yards. Beyond that and you can't adequately ID the target at all, especially if it is remotely cloaked/camouflaged. If you have someone with magnification to ID the target and point it out, then it can be good enough to go after a hit out to 300 POSSIBLY extending to 600 (which isn't ideal in a hunt, but in a combat scenario I see it being workable). At very close range 1x is simply superior in every way. That's about 30 yards in. **My opinion**
@ToXSicK1340
7 жыл бұрын
Love the Channel and you Guy's ROCK!!! Thank You for your Time and sharing this stuff.
@ALegitimateYoutuber
7 жыл бұрын
I would love to see you guys do a simple video on indirect rifle fire. Because it is a really interesting subject that i haven't really seen every get talked about. Which is sad, since it does have a purpose all be it a limited use one.
@DaveOpoien
7 жыл бұрын
Ian and Karl, why does the general purpose rifle have an 18" barrel instead of a 16"? Doesn't that extra two inches give so little additional transonic flight range that it's practically worthless (while adding unnecessary forward weight and length)? It was my understanding that settling on the 18" barrel for Mark 12 SPR rifles was just pencil pushers compromising between 20" and 16". Love the series so far! Thank you so much for the work you do!
@pauliebertard4962
7 жыл бұрын
Check out the ACOGs the Marine Corps uses on every m16a4. Theres a reason they picked that optic. Interesting to see what you guys think of that.
@RasdenFasden
7 жыл бұрын
Have you considered using a magnifier on some sort of quick-detach mount for the holosun? In a similar sense to how you once explained how the SVD's scope can be quickly detached for close-range engagements, you could do the same with a magnifier. It might be preferable in terms of handling/FOV to be able to entirely remove it instead of just flipping it to the side, although both possibilities would be ideal.
@Shadowlogic420
6 жыл бұрын
Building my first rifle out of the cheapest parts I could find ended up being a fairly heavy rifle. 8lbs I'm planning on making some changes to decrease the weight I'm open to suggestions, my budget isn't the highest but the lighter the better.
@BMG-hz5pq
6 жыл бұрын
So glad i found this channel right now
@gobucks45177
7 жыл бұрын
I would personally go with a 4x32 ACOG with an RMR mounted on top. I have not shot out to 600 yards with my ACOG but I have no doubt you can see a man size target at 600. The only issue you might have is the eye relief. IMO it's the only downside to the optic.
@dylanwight5764
4 жыл бұрын
On the topic of red dot sights and zero eye relief, I found this true in a fairly surprisingly way. Part of my job as a rural veterinarian is that I am often employed as a bacon removal specialist. I don't exactly want to get too close to the pigs but no manner of magnified optics have proven to be very useful when firing from the back of a ute, beyond the first shot anyway. I want to be able to quickly switch between the beasts before they scatter. Not needing to worry about eye relief has saved me countless hours de-pigging undeveloped properties. So in a weird roundabout way, the humble red dot sight is one of my most precise tools as a veterinarian.
@Strelok762
7 жыл бұрын
As far as optics, what about trying an optic that uses a modern Russian concept? The concept I'm speaking of is a prismatic/reflex style sight with a reticle that allows both the rapid cqb capabilities of a red dot and a fine aiming point that allows more precise shots (ie the obzor reticle, or the rakurs reticle).
@genericpersonx333
7 жыл бұрын
For the basic project, I agree with continuing with 5.56mm since that is the ammunition of the AR15 platform, but I genuinely think that the clear future of military firearms lays in finding the new intermediate ammunition: between 5.56mm/45mm and 7.62mm/51mm. It is clear that the latter is too powerful for most infantry rifle purposes, but the 5.56mm is also limited in ways that will only grow more obvious as we integrate new technologies that extend the range of soldiers further than the 250-yard visual limit.
@Mini-TOutdoorsMedia
7 жыл бұрын
I think the 2.5x scope is about right for the average rifleman. We have seen that engagement ranges are most often less than 300m, making the need for target ID and hits at 500/600m a capability that isn't needed. I think this is more of holding onto ideas from the past.
@chinnrottchinn5237
7 жыл бұрын
Leupold VXR 2x7 with the fire dot with a aero precision mount total weight around 15 ounces can't be beat for an AR and the price it'll do about anything you all need it to do for that DMR or whatever you're calling it
@jbmotter
7 жыл бұрын
I have a feeling it'll end up being a fixed 4x vs lpv. Most of the other options in that battle lose out on weight. Spectres and rds/mags end up being just as heavy as variables but lose out on eye relief, glass quality, or magnification level. For the price and weight of a Spectredr, you could be giving everyone a Kahles K16i. Acogs at least give you the benefit of low weight and fixed eyebox. Plus you can use BAC for any snap shooting.
@Afrostmes
6 жыл бұрын
Glad to see this update, I was about to start my own WWSD build.
@GOCHICOAPRODUCTIONS
7 жыл бұрын
Hey guys! I think you're doing great with the project but I suggest you look into single stage triggers.
@InrangeTv
7 жыл бұрын
We're ahead of you on this one. :) kzitem.info/news/bejne/u5WvsX2ZsXx0fKw ~Karl
@0214Bub
7 жыл бұрын
Interesting stuff. One aspect I am somewhat interested in is whether or not mid level red dots like Karl's are good enough. I been playing around with one (won't mention name), but have so far been happily impressed. Something else I have noticed a number of companies are going to red dots with circles, I would be interested to hear you thoughts on that sometime as well.
@grantfitz2047
7 жыл бұрын
So we have Karl with a slightly modified Army standard M4 with no buis and Ian with a slightly shortened M16A4 with a slightly less potent scope. It will be interesting to see how close you guys come to actual doctrine for conclusions based off running these 2 rifles and I am wondering are you using a quick detach suppressor on Ian's to help minimize the size penalty in tight spaces since dense woods aren't an issue there.
@cryhavoc999
7 жыл бұрын
Regarding the Riflemans sight how about using the setup from the L85A2's X4 Sight (Elcan SpecterOS 4x lightweight optical day sight) with a top mounted Close Quarter reflex sight. Ian seemed to like the setup in his recent vid on that weapon.
@brianreddeman951
7 жыл бұрын
Rifle evolution, environment shapes the changes in the rifle over time :)
@YOSHIZERO
7 жыл бұрын
I wholeheartedly believe you guys are correct about the Cav Arms lower being better than most other polymer lowers, but I'm curious about why , for example, metal reinforced poly lowers such as the TN Arms Co lowers would not work as well?
@eliminster06
4 жыл бұрын
to put it simply its an spr, dmr is usually in our modern military going to be a heavier round such as 7.62 or 6.5cm while the spr uses the same caliber but may have a heavier grain bullet. Your concept has already been implemented in the military by jsoc to a much better capability, though slightly heavier result.
@ToxMace
7 жыл бұрын
So I've built a "budget" infantryman WWSD AR and I'm loving it. It's still $810 dollars in parts (including accessories and optics) but it could be worse, both price and performance-wise. I've got a beater PSA TCG, BCG, Barrel, and charging handle in it for the moment and I went with some cheaper alternative parts in exchange for a couple ounces in weight. It's still on a CAV-15 lower and Aero Precison no forward assist upper with a Vortex RDS but it needs a few parts upgrades down the road. I do have one question for you both about the GWACS CAV-15 lower, particularly towards Karl since you've had a couple over the years. Have you ever had any issues with the tolerances on the bolt catch pin holes of the GWACS' lowers? I've got about a 1/32" of wiggle in mine. I've tried three bolt catches and it's the same on each. It doesn't seem like a lot of wiggle but it's enough to make the bolt hold open completely fail. Even on a PMAG's fat follower the catch can drop behind the follower, fail to hold open, and jam the magazine in place so it won't drop free. It's predictably worse on an Aluminum GI mag. I fixed the issue by adding a tiny washer I cut from a pen spring to take up the slack. To be fair, this is one of their blem lowers so that could be why. Just wanted to know if you had encountered anything similar on the bolt catch or any of the other pinned parts. I'm proud to support you on Patreon. Keep up the great work. I love this series and can't wait to get a final build list from ya'll. P.S. Do more interviews with firearms manufacturers. I can't get enough.
@Super-Kuper
7 жыл бұрын
I like the idea of this being a rifleman's rifle rather than the DMR. I think you should eventually look into the DMR, either as an AR-10 platform in either .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor, or sticking with the short action in something like 6.5 Grendel.
@hazakdds7366
7 жыл бұрын
Loving this. Thanks guys.
@TheRealColBosch
7 жыл бұрын
You know, I've not shot since I left the Army. Once you settle on a configuration, I'd be interested to see if I could pick it up and use it without additional training.
@tm1182
7 жыл бұрын
Burris makes a fixed 4x with a 600y bdc, I think it's called the AR-332
@jjkroll32
7 жыл бұрын
based upon this discussion, the DMR redefined will likely be something along the lines of the L129a1 - 30 caliber or potentially one of the new-in-vogue 6.5s (6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Rem)
@nerdvernacular9650
7 жыл бұрын
With the exception of countries that used to have bullpups and then abandoned them, I'm having trouble thinking of an example from the last 100 or more years where a country went from a shorter main infantry rifle to a longer main infantry rifle, so is a fixed stock 18 inch barrel AR really a likely/reasonable replacement for the current M4? How much would a 16 inch barrel reduce performance over the 18 inch barrel?
@aspenfacer-valentine4397
6 жыл бұрын
I'm commenting from the future to say, they originally wanted to make them both 14.5" guns but got a 18" to increase the difference... And Ian eventually refitted his rifle with a shorter barrel because the 18" wasn't worth it.
@CobraMustang
7 жыл бұрын
I have rebuttal for Super Karl and Ian the Ivan. All Marines have ACOGs now but Marines are moving towards M4 totally. So everyone could be SDM and door kicker.
@rb226r8
7 жыл бұрын
My only question with regards to the WWSD project is why 2 rifles for the average military they want 1 weapon for everyone. So the average solider can clear a building and then run out side and shoot out to 600yards. In that guise it seems like there needs to be a balance between the door kicker and the riflemen rifle. Something that can do both with reasonable effectiveness. Additionally I'd suggest at the very least a deep dive video looking at if stoner would have chosen a different cartridge. Seeing the plethora of new cartridges that claim to improve the ballistics and lethality over the 5.56. Then a second deep dive looking at what 5.56 loading that WWSD rifle should be employed with.
@jet40007
7 жыл бұрын
Could have taken a note from the Swiss on the magnification notes guys. They discarded a 1.5x scope for marksmanship almost immediately after accepting it.
@barnabywylde2224
6 жыл бұрын
If you're increasing the range from 300 to 600 yards you should consider changing calibers. Some people say increasing the mass of the projectile is a good solution. However, I've never seen a demonstration of a 77 gr vs 55 gr at distance.
@jordanhorst6
7 жыл бұрын
I personally feel that a specialist rifle should be able to comfortably shoot from a vehicle. A side folder or pdw collapsible stock seems like a must for quick deployment. also There are some polymer lowers that are built from the ground up to be stronger.
@XanderTuron
7 жыл бұрын
Your discussion about the scope on the standard rifle reminds me of some of the conversations I have had with Canadian Forces members. The Elcan C79 (M145 MGO in US service) is standard issue for all C7A1 and C7A2s. Of course some soldiers swear by them, others despise them, mostly because the mounting system (from what I have been told), while it has been improved on the C79A2 is awkward and the sight lacks proper back up iron sights. The back up sights are crude and not effective outside of 75 or so metres and are literally just part of the rubber coating on the outside of the optic and as a result they wear out over time.
@InrangeTv
7 жыл бұрын
I actually have a C79 Elcan, which we will probably do a video on at some point. It's not good enough for us to consider for the WWSD rifles, though. ~Ian
@XanderTuron
7 жыл бұрын
Of course you have one, but yeah, from what I have heard, the C79 really does have its issues.
@drmaudio
7 жыл бұрын
The discussion continues to be interesting. The low power variables are hard to beat, but one has to spend a bit of money to get a quality scope.
@Reptilianmaster-1120
3 жыл бұрын
This is pretty much what the canadian did to their c7a2 rifle. Basic m16a1 style irons with 3x scope.
@MrKingdavis13
7 жыл бұрын
I would like to see Karl do an experiment and run a door kicker drill with targets from point blank to 20 yards with no optic or sighting system at all on his wwsd gun. Proper training and muscle memory is a very significant factor in accuracy and it is amazing just how precise you can shoot without sights if you have enough time with a gun. This is how shotgun shooters and cowboy fast draw can hit their target so fast and do things like shooting from the hip. The point is that the red dot sight can fail and have a dead battery or whatever or even get broken off so it would be interesting to see how much it is actually aiding in your shooting.
@viperscot1
7 жыл бұрын
this is the type of cool video I love keep up the great work on this and other projects too all the best from Scotland
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