Out of all the endless hours-long discussion video's and podcast about the topic, this 14 min one give by far the best summery in my option (nice job XD). Playing 4-8 in every mono and two color deck, replacing lands/spells in a 3-1 or 2-1 ratio (depending on how manahungry your deck is and how well the MDFC's actually fit in your spell slots) has worked fantastically for me for all the reason you described. Honesty i em kinda shocked as to how many people are underrating these things. I know the set is only out in paper for a few weeks, so people still have to adjust there (digital) decklists. But every single MDFC land only has around 200-400 includes according to EDHREC, that should be WAY, WAY higher.
@thelocustgod9098
4 жыл бұрын
I wouldn’t cut basics tbh. Cut any mono colored tapped lands you run like the cycling lands or other utility lands that aren’t land removal or graveyard removal.
@Evinthal84
4 жыл бұрын
Exactly. My first reaction to him saying replace basics with these was this: NO NO NO NO NO NO. Do not replace lands of ANY kind in your deck with these, it is a trap. If you have to play these spells as lands because you replaced land slots in your deck with them then you might as well have NOT replaced those lands. These should take up spell slots and looked at as having an upside of being spells that you can use as lands if you really need to make a land drop.
@danielac5696
4 жыл бұрын
I was skeptical at first, but just a few games in playing them, I'm convinced to agree with Seth here. Do I like that? Not really, it feels like cards 5-10 that are now auto-includes in my EDH decks. The opportunity cost is so low and the cards are just decent enough to make me want to jam them in all my decks like you said, and something about just doesn't feel great.
@randompeeps71
4 жыл бұрын
I kind of think they should keep up this kind of mechanic in order to make players less reliant on the cards from the set specifically - the mechanic itself single-handedly helps to solve one of the biggest issues in magic, that is needing to mulligan for more/less lands. If this is the only set with this kind of thing, the prices are only going to keep getting higher and higher and therefore there are going to be fewer people able to play with this kind of solution.
@Evinthal84
4 жыл бұрын
@@randompeeps71 There will be at least two other sets coming up that will have MDFCs in them. Strixhaven and Kaldheim have been confirmed to have them, though whether or not they will have spell/land MDFCs has yet to be seen.
@sebvieira
4 жыл бұрын
I've build an Omnath Locus of Creation commander deck and after watching this video, I've replaced about 8 basic lands with MDFC's. Gonna try it out later this week, but your explanation made lots of sense. Thanks!
@cheezuschrist588
4 жыл бұрын
Kinda surprised you only put malakir rebirth in often play; at the very least you can always save your commander from removal. I definitely consider it better than pelakka predation
@MTGGoldfishCommander
4 жыл бұрын
I think that you need a reasonable number of creatures to make it worth playing. If you do it's very good.
@cheezuschrist588
4 жыл бұрын
@@MTGGoldfishCommander It's kinda just a cheaper version of sejiri shelter which you put in always play for white. It definitely gets better with more creatures, but I'm pretty sure it's still good enough with only the commander (especially since a no creature deck will probably have spell synergies)
@Atanar89
4 жыл бұрын
@@cheezuschrist588 Upside if your commander has an etb
@JB33809
4 жыл бұрын
All of them are better than they seem at first glance. No, even better.
@shayneweyker
4 жыл бұрын
Beware of playing too many enters-tapped lands in you deck, the number of enters tapped land your deck can tolerate depends on the power level you want to achieve, higher power means fewer enters tapped lands.
@GamerdevilPro
4 жыл бұрын
This! I feel like these MDFC'S are a bit of a trap in that sense. The mythic ones can easily count as a full land but for the others you shouldn't count them as basic lands or if you do you should at least cut down on your etb tapped lands.
@gammie8191
4 жыл бұрын
You must not mind playing tapped lands Seth. Playing a tapped land is a huge cost to me and a lot of these aren’t exciting enough on the spell side to play.
@burnedelite765
4 жыл бұрын
I think in commander these should replace spell slots rather than land slots. So rather thinking these as tapped lands, they're spells that help prevent mana screw or missing land drops. Play them as lands if it's the last resort. But I get the spell side being lackluster and I'd only play a few of them
@Attilathefun87
4 жыл бұрын
@@burnedelite765 completely agree these should take spell slots and not land slots. The bolt one's I can see taking either place. It feels extremely greedy to replace basics with the ones that enter tapped, but I think a lot of people are going to end up doing just that,
@Stroggoii
4 жыл бұрын
He plays in a table with fast mana banned and where he never, ever, gets targeted first or put on a fast clock. If you play in a meta where Mana Crypt exists in every deck, like most people right now playing on MTGO where it's $1 or cockatrice/untap where it's $0, MDFCs are stone dead unplayable.
@gammie8191
4 жыл бұрын
Stroggoii that’s a very good point!
@commanderpower99
4 жыл бұрын
I play this in the spell slot to be honest. A few days ago, Gavin Verhey was saying that you should be playing 40 lands in your edh deck to never miss land drops. Now my decks have 39-40 lands and I am not looking back. Some of these have effects (for 1 more mana likely) you already want anyways. I don't think these should replace basic lands in your deck. You can have a very good mana base with untapped lands and these increase you land count without risking consistency. Better yet, they prevent getting mana screwed. Great video Seth. I'm glad the community can see the power of these cards.
@cacs2201
4 жыл бұрын
It depends of how many lands you would be cutting I would say for each 3 MDFC you have, cut one land
@Evinthal84
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, these should almost never replace lands in your deck. Listening to the EDHRec podcast today and they brought this up and how if anything they should be looked at for spell slots with the up side of being able to be played as a land if you really need to make a land drop. If you end up never playing the spell side because you are having to play them as a land consistently why bother having them in the deck?
@systempariah177
4 жыл бұрын
For Landfall decks, even the 3 color or higher ones, these have powerful synergies. Since these mdfc lands can be played for their land side from the yard with Crucible of Worlds type effect, you can basically have infinite casts with them. Cast Bala Ged Recovery, play it as a land from the yard, bounce it with Mina and Denn or Trade Routes, and cast it again.
@JonathanHecht
4 жыл бұрын
considering the majority of these cards enter tapped its worth noting you shouldn't put too many of these in your deck especially if they replace basics because running these alongside budget mana base means the deck will become significantly slower
@johnwelsch8289
4 жыл бұрын
I have them in the new Omnath deck. I have 40 lands already, for landfall triggers. But having some of these in the deck helps add to the land count with out needing them to be played as a land
@TheDylls
4 жыл бұрын
"Vastwood Fortification is very situational..." Me: Currently building Pir and Toothy...
@MTGGoldfishCommander
4 жыл бұрын
That's one of the situations where is it good!
@chubzoid
4 жыл бұрын
Going to play it in volrath!
@robertholtz769
4 жыл бұрын
I agree that MDFCs should mostly only be considered in 1 and 2 color decks. However, I believe that 3+ Color decks that specifically want to increase their land count also want a lot of MDFCs. For example, I have been brewing a 4C Omnath deck where going in I wanted to have the typical 36 lands with mostly the best color fixing and a few utility lands, but artificially increase my land count by having as many of the even moderately playable MDFCs as possible. That idea seems really good on paper if you can simplify your deck's important cards down to the remaining 43-53 cards. Then you can easily play 10-20 moderate to really strong MDFCs.
@mrpandabites
4 жыл бұрын
I think your take is almost spot on, but I think I would add my own caveats that I play these cards land-side up if I replace them for lands, fully expecting that 8 times out of ten, I will play them as lands. I don't play more than four in a deck and I have only replaced other tapped lands for them, rather than basics or other untapped lands.
@stevenburton7725
4 жыл бұрын
Sadly, I have been playing Wave of Vitriol, and Primal Order a lot lately in both mono green, and Gruul. Those cards have become clutch in most games that I have played recently. I would love to be able to play more non basic lands, but with the sheer amount of broken lands in the environment it has become far too prevalent for your opponent’s broken land to take over games.
@Spike-kg5rd
4 жыл бұрын
cool video but taking them out of sleeves to play the side you wanna play is a huge turn off regardless of power
@daviddeboer8793
4 жыл бұрын
You can just lay them between your lands making it obvious they are played as lands in that case (as they just tap for their own colour anyway)
@LetMeCookBro69
4 жыл бұрын
How lazy are you ahhaha seriously lol. Im just assuming wiping after the bathroom is alot of work as well? Lol jk its not a big deal at all.
@TabbyLavalamp
4 жыл бұрын
Put them in clear sleeves and leave them in the deck box until you need them, use the tokens in your deck.
@Spike-kg5rd
4 жыл бұрын
@@daviddeboer8793 actually Einstein
@LetMeCookBro69
4 жыл бұрын
@@Spike-kg5rd i just read that comment yea thats WAYYYYYYY BETTER. i never bitched about flipping my cards but thats just as good lol. I play westvale abbey so flipping cards is my fav part lol.
@Attilathefun87
4 жыл бұрын
Sure top decking a land later on when you need a spell is a feel bad but so does drawing a etb tapped single color land when you need a land. I'm talking from a casual perspective too.
@ExKiwi-yw8er
4 жыл бұрын
Still unsure if I want to spend money on paper cards right now, but I'm REAL close to buying a playsey of all of these.
@mrpandabites
4 жыл бұрын
I can see why there is some disdain for these cards. The opportunity cost for playing a tapped land is super high and its only getting higher as EDH gets faster and lower to the ground. However, they are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. I see EDHRecCast saying they encourage bad deck-building habits, I see my own playgroup comparing them to Mortuary Mire. But these people are looking at them as bad spells first and then a tapped land on top of that. I think that is the wrong way to look at them. They are not BOTH of these things, they are EITHER of them, and that makes all the difference. The fact they are flexible is a bigger deal than people give them credit for, and in the In the right decks, these cards are insane. My Goreclaw Ramp deck loves the options. Mizzix Storm? Decrease the chance of whiffing on a Mind's Desire! My super synergistic Meren deck loves being able to put spells in without upsetting the precarious balance of cards that fulfill multiple functions. I think these cards shine in the late game. Sure, you don't want a tap-land on turn five or six when you are topdecking to try to make your land drops, but that is the only scenario where these are bad. Everywhere else it is all upside.
@CarronBarboza
4 жыл бұрын
SETH. Stop telling people to play these cards! I still need to buy the playsets!
@LetMeCookBro69
4 жыл бұрын
Nah fam thats your fault shoulda been bouta them especially when agadeem was like only 5 bucks lol
@simonnice9030
4 жыл бұрын
I put Malakir Rebirth in my Elenda deck, and I'm going to put Valakut Awakening in my Niv-Mizzet. Seems like nobrainers to include 🙂.
@ScrOuch13
4 жыл бұрын
I do agree that you can swap some of your lands for the mdfcs, however I wouldn't make any changes to the amount of lands in my deck. If I had 37 lands in my deck, I wouldn't go for 31+9 mdfcs, but rather keep the amount and swap just 6 lands for mdfcs. They are good but not better than the cards that follow my actual game plan imho.
@alasanof
4 жыл бұрын
Actually, you're drawing exactly one (1) card with Sea Gate Restoration when you're in topdeck mode.
@iiGiacomo
4 жыл бұрын
I should probably put more in my mono red deck but I’m running gauntlet of power, extraplanar lens, and caged sun which all really like basics. Funnily enough I think I need MORE basics in all my 1-2 color decks.
@Evinthal84
4 жыл бұрын
Are you being cheesy and running nothing but snow covered basics for that extraplanar lens? I need to break down and buy a bunch of them and the lens for my Daretti deck.
@sleighte
4 жыл бұрын
I hate having to physically take them out of the sleeves to flip them, it's disgusting
@MTGGoldfishCommander
4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that is a drawback.
@cacs2201
4 жыл бұрын
Use the "flip" cards and leave them in a clear sleeve It works just fine, and you don't have to keep changing them
@Sturm64
4 жыл бұрын
literally this
@uncletorb1887
4 жыл бұрын
From my experience most people will just let you keep them on their normal face and put them in with your lands, which saves you from flipping them.
@cacs2201
4 жыл бұрын
@Servbot 40 there is a token system... And god, I loved Kamigawa, but those old dual cards were horrible, too much information and you basically couldn't focus on any of the card
@bajexe
4 жыл бұрын
I wish I could run more of these. Sadly my 3 colour deck really hates all the mono colour lands. I think of all of them bala ged recovery is the best for me (sultai reanimator), it's the only 1 I was able to make space for anyway.
@MWorl91
4 жыл бұрын
My general rule even with 3 color decks is I start out by adding all of the ones in my colors and then depending on the deck I might end up cutting a handful of the ones that don’t work well with the deck. So far my average 3 color deck runs like 14 of these and 30ish actual lands though some do run up to 35 real lands on top of these
@MWorl91
4 жыл бұрын
Also I think Seth nailed it with his overall rating of which cards are always plays and such. The only one that I tend to disagree with is Ondu Inversion, which I’ve cut from a number of my decks simply because it wraths too much stuff. If it just destroyed all creatures it would be different, but even when you’re behind, wiping away your entire board of artifacts, enchantments, and planeswalkers and then letting everyone else start rebuilding before you doesn’t feel great
@Atanar89
4 жыл бұрын
The clone is an absolute house in my Pir/Toothy deck.
@andyjames7534
4 жыл бұрын
Good video content, Seth
@tgva8889
4 жыл бұрын
So what you're saying is I should play more Back to Basics and Blood Moon ;)
@maahes2783
4 жыл бұрын
Can i see the list of this clerics deck please?
@JimboMonkey007
4 жыл бұрын
You heard it here first Seth get's high on magic cards! "I've been high on these cards since they were spoiled!" - Seth (0:36)
@esrohm6460
4 жыл бұрын
In my playgroup one person only plays basics even in 5c decks just because he thinks it's stupid how much land cost. If you know how to build deck it's pretty easy to play the mdfc no matter what. You just have to have a low mana symbol count in your deck which is more often than not the case.
@LetMeCookBro69
4 жыл бұрын
Thays a very thin layer of ice. Does he win often?
@esrohm6460
4 жыл бұрын
@@LetMeCookBro69 he has a good track record and we are not a group of weak decks. we do use a lot of strong cards like sylvan lybrary or yawgmoth will and do end games often turn 7 or 6. if you have a lot of experince playing the game since pre modern was a thing you do get good at building working decks out of basically anything.
@LetMeCookBro69
4 жыл бұрын
@@esrohm6460 yea i totally understand but only basics? You must have god tier top decks because in my group everyone has strong decks capable of winning as easy as turn 4 but we're cedh. If you losing to a guy with only basics then idk what to say lol. Mind you there's no sympathy in my group. We have land destruction. Playing 5c all basics is very thin ice but everyone table is different. Best believe if theres a 5c guy with only basics winning games we will kill him off first everytime. I get colored screwed so i could could imagine how his mulligans looks like lololol.
@esrohm6460
4 жыл бұрын
@@LetMeCookBro69 you gotta keep in mind that its not like he always plays 5c and were have a house banlist to knock out the obviously dum strong card out of the game (mostly super fast mana rocks that accel you to fast, chaos shenanigans or cards that do nothing but drag out the game, which against nobody want to play, if you are not abusing the card in some way to win faster) and we're do try out more janky things instead of the abmost strongest. but jank doesn't mean weak, i have a moonfolk deck that wins turn 5 - 7 through disruption. have you ever read what moonfolks do? we're trying to break those type of cards which makes the game a bit slower which makes basics actually not that bad as come into play untapt no downside taps for a mana land.
@LetMeCookBro69
4 жыл бұрын
@@esrohm6460 this man talking about moonfolk acting like everyone don't know lol thats like so 3 years ago because you're the first to die when you play it . Nobody wanna deals and we have no rules for we're cedh. A win is a win so everyone get to play all the types of deck. I'm responding to you saying he wins often with a 5c no basic deck. No worries man theres just level to everything. We prepare for all that BIGGGGG difference between just some guys having fun and your whole group is cedh tryna wanna by turn 3 or 4 just a different level of group power but I feel you just in my table we're very opposite. We allow everything and usually blue players die first lol
@Shivan_16
4 жыл бұрын
I run 2-4 in all of my decks so far. But I consider them lands in my deck building. (I know the spell side counts as whats face up tho.)
@Shivan_16
4 жыл бұрын
But low key MDFCS (Seagate Restoration for example) also has minor upsides like being a land that can be put on top of your deck with a mystical tutor or a land that can be pitched to a force of will. All because the spell side is face up.
@Evinthal84
4 жыл бұрын
Don't consider them lands. It is a trap.
@Shivan_16
4 жыл бұрын
@@Evinthal84 I've been playing them that way and ive had no issues. But I know some ppl like to play them as spells. To me id rather not play an inferior effect of a card just for the off chance it can be a land. Id rather play and supirior land that can be more than a land and still play all really good cards.
@Shivan_16
4 жыл бұрын
Most mdfcs are good, but they are over costed versions of their effects. Which makes me not want to run them in my spell slots. However I respect that once you hit a larger amount of them that way it can help consistency in mana and that is understandable.
@MidgarMerc
4 жыл бұрын
People play cards like Absorb Vis cause it has swamp cycling so these seem like upgrades on that.
@Stroggoii
4 жыл бұрын
Twisted Abomination finds Underground Sea, triggers Bone Miser, gets recurred by Phyrexian Reclamation... These give you a bad spell or a bad land.
@Alikaoz
4 жыл бұрын
I already run 2 in my 2 color deck!
@ericd1022
4 жыл бұрын
just ordered my playset of all the foil uncommon mdfc's
@ms.sysbit5511
4 жыл бұрын
I think Agadeem, Awakening, and the wrath in white are super easily justified and are about the only ones worth it unless they super fit your deck’s theme. A bad land/spell is way below a good land or good spell. Like there are decks where you run the blue mythic such as Yuriko or super draw heavy decks. In minotaurs I’d run that tribal member. I’ve seen the clone pop off in say Unesh. They have homes and can work but I do not share the exuberance with running these always or even often. Barring the above they belong in certain shells where they can excel while many others belong nowhere but the bargain bin. I heavily caution against running those white or black ones. Worsening Emeria and Coffers/Stronghold further for bad cards on both sides is a huge mistake. And that’s not even mentioning Blood/Magus Moon and Back to Basics. I think you are way overvaluing these. Edit: grammar
@aramfingal
4 жыл бұрын
Lol... "Bean Veil" 😁
@MidgarMerc
4 жыл бұрын
Skipped 20 second intervals in this video 3 times and Seth was saying the exact same thing all 3 times.
@NeiroAtOpelCC
4 жыл бұрын
I like your video, but I don't like wotc printing more 'must play' cards in general.
@MindLaboratory
4 жыл бұрын
MDFC's - brought to you by UltraPro
@BarbeChenue
4 жыл бұрын
Because of you, I had to pull the trigger on buying them all right now instead of later. #FOMO XD
@DerekdaDude91
4 жыл бұрын
Topdeck a Sea Gate Restoration empty handed is actually not that great I guess :D
@chimneyimp1486
4 жыл бұрын
I'd argue that you don't want too many tap lands in your deck. it can hinder you too much. And the argument, that mdfcs are not bad when in "top deck"-mode is also rather weak. kabira takedown or skyclave cleric don't seem to be very good. arch of orazca or bonder's enclave are way better in this situation and with no tempo loss. their downside is no manafixing but other than that their are way superior to the "bad mdfc's". I'd even say, that most cycling lands are better than some of the mdfc's. of course all the mythic mdfc's are not "playable" but at least "very good". and glasspool mimic, bala ged recovery, khalni ambush and some more are truly very strong, but the rest is at least a little bit overhyped at the moment.
@AndrewWoodford
4 жыл бұрын
I’ll just keep playing Basics. I don’t want to play Magic on Easy Mode with Auto-Includes. Good video though!
@williamsimkulet7832
4 жыл бұрын
Umara Wizard? Come on man, outside of a tribal deck, I see no reason I'd want to top deck this in commander. Black? None of these is +1 to Cabal Coffers, so these are not "always play". You sometimes play the mythic in a deck that can get 3+ creatures back with it... but that deck runs Cabal Coffers, doesn't it? Mauling might see play in 2-3 color decks, but it's still just Murder. Rebirth is good for Konrad, and maybe some other decks... but still.
@redstonepro5412
4 жыл бұрын
I think you kindof overrate them a bit You should ask yourself: is this card in my deck better than a cycling If yes: run it! But i dont think that is true for many of them And i would not recommend playing a ton of tappedlands
@BassBaseAce
4 жыл бұрын
whenever he says mdfc I think of kmfdm, if anyone follows the reference
@Evinthal84
4 жыл бұрын
kmfdm sucks. 😉
@Stroggoii
4 жыл бұрын
Nah these are shit save for the B/G mythics and the Mammoth. I'd rather play Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond and have otherwise useless cards that sometimes boost me a turn or two ahead than otherwise useless cards that once in a blue moon give you the option you need and not the option you got stuck with because "the opportunity cost is so low!". You have to be playing vs do nothing decks for these do nothing cards to be good, Liliana's Shade is better in mono black than all but Agadeem's Awakening.
@PaladinOfHope
4 жыл бұрын
Ain't giving Wotc/hasbro more money. They benefit from the secondary market. they benefit from teh hype while sacrificing the game. Cube is all they can't touch for now.
@firelahti
4 жыл бұрын
Buy singles
@PaladinOfHope
4 жыл бұрын
@@firelahti No. Singles have to come from boosters, so that's WotC gets money from single sales too, just indirectly.
@Optimator7
4 жыл бұрын
Price increase incoming
@dragonknite314
4 жыл бұрын
Duh
@Ganondorf5
4 жыл бұрын
Because we should buy twice the card , because we are sick of switching them around....nice try buddy
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