As a DMC player, a thing a lot of people don't get is that it's not about what you have to do, it's about what you can do.
@yoghurtmingvase
9 ай бұрын
What's even the point if you don't look good doing it? It's all about the SSStyle
@czaczaczar
9 ай бұрын
@@yoghurtmingvase Nothing can beat DMC's SSStyle combo system.
@hullabaloo4323
6 ай бұрын
I just watched a “simple Dante combo” video and because of that, I can confidently say that DMC players r on another level
@NyxDiscordia33
2 ай бұрын
It's not about what you do; it's what you *don't* When I found out you can do specific combos by holding a button or not pressing anything at all in Bayonetta it opened up a whole new world of possibilities to me. For the longest time I thought in action games you just mash one or two buttons.
@furyberserk
2 ай бұрын
@@NyxDiscordia33 There is a distinction between the subgenres. Character action games are "never" just about button mashing. Closest would be muso, which still requires thinking.
@XequlixX
9 ай бұрын
this has been one of the best and most usefull showcases of what the game can offer for people not in the beta. Its so hard to find stuff like this in sea of people just playing the arcade.
@smonkywontbeatya
9 ай бұрын
fighting and roguelike elements in a hoyoverse game is actually such a fun idea, glad they are delivering on depth here.
@garethcf1016
9 ай бұрын
Well, they've done that kind of thing before
@deathrayanimates6586
3 ай бұрын
@@garethcf1016 I'm guessing the person means not like this before, not as good as this I guess.
@zer0veledits
9 ай бұрын
It's sad to see how many people put the game down so fast and without exploring everything about it, about its combat and mechanics. Videos like yours are the perfect example of how much such a game can have a shit ton of theorycrafting from players that will dedicate the time to learn and master the characters and their combat mechanics.
@famimame
9 ай бұрын
We need more content creator who cook rather than content creator who just want meta/minmax least amount of input for dmg
@WutheringGachaZero
9 ай бұрын
@@famimame yeah that's also true.
@saga8659
7 ай бұрын
Cause it's just left click > parry > left click > parry > left click > parry
@renno2679
4 ай бұрын
Lots of people back when Star Rail was new didn't care about stuff like Break Effect, Effect Res and Speed. We just built characters the same way as Genshin. But now there's so much depth to it.
@deathrayanimates6586
3 ай бұрын
@@renno2679Yeah, I saw a whole person write a whole article based on Zenless Zone Zeros Beta saying how it doesn't have enough combat or its too boring and said it's dead on release for them, JUST based on the beta. Full releases usually improve alot from the beta and make a game entirely better, if that person only bases the games they play off the beta then their future for gaming is crumbled. Not bothering to look into the game from other platforms and what it has to offer.
@RiceDealer-
9 ай бұрын
How to do Nicole's Hidden Move: Do a circle with WDSA while holding EX move. Easier with controller, just do circle with stick. Note: With M&K start your attack by holding W and when you need to do you circle movement just roll you fingers across D-S-A. The W input seems to be saved from when you started your attack. 1. Hold EX and circle movement keys or stick (sits) 2. Hold EX and circle movement keys or stick and let go of EX early (falls) 3. Dash + normal attack (hold normal attack) and circle movement keys or stick (fast follow into fall attack) 4. After any auto attack combo (3 stages) with correct timing, Hold EX and circle movement keys or stick into fast sit or fall variation
@Gen2K_
9 ай бұрын
The fact that it has a training mode is already kind of proof that Hoyo is taking this game more seriously in combat than Genshin. At the same time though it's still up to the game to pull players through the ringer and forced them to learn the more engaging mechanics it has to offer. If players are just blazing through enemy content basically mashing, there is some fault with the game itself.
@wits_end.
9 ай бұрын
Combat is most of the game. There is no exploration aspect. They better make it good. That's all in gameplay it's got
@brochiing4295
9 ай бұрын
@@wits_end. how did you forget the tv mode which is totally fun and exciting that everyone praises with glee and joy
@wits_end.
9 ай бұрын
@@brochiing4295 oh man you are so right. And the snake game too! I'd rather dump all my free time on those parts of the game.
@Rar830
9 ай бұрын
@@wits_end.You and every streamer
@Rar830
9 ай бұрын
@@brochiing4295I absolutely love the tv mode! I really enjoy playing an Arpg for those sweet few minutes of combat every now and then while spending most of my time in a fully colored tv moving a thing and doing puzzles which is absolutely what I came into this Arpg to do. Anyone who doesn’t like the tv should just spend all their time getting the world record in the arcade mini games because obviously that’s the main appeal of any Arpg, just ask all the people streaming it, which they spend more time on.
@KiyoshiAbegames
9 ай бұрын
I would love to watch a part 2 of the mechanics. No matter how long the video will be.
@invaderkota2497
9 ай бұрын
The minute I realized that Rina's EX, Ult, Assist and dodge attack leaves her little puppet bangboo out on the field to continually do damage while you can swap other characters in to also damage at the same time, I knew this game's fighting system was fire. She never leaves my team because she can do so much damage while being on the field for 2 seconds at a time.
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
And the shock she builds on that is crazy!!
@MorbidEel
9 ай бұрын
So not only does she look like Aponia, she also functions like Aponia 😁
@SweeterRice
9 ай бұрын
Love these tech and combo videos, would love to see more of these
@gobokoboobo4620
9 ай бұрын
Hidden combo mechanic are a treat to discover. I hope that it's intentional, it'll put it on a whole other level of mastery and a big contrast to their other games.
@albezelcz3452
9 ай бұрын
In Honkai Impact 3rd there are also hidden combos.
@momsaccount4033
2 ай бұрын
It’s absolutely intentional because there is a specific animation for it
@loserinasuit7880
2 ай бұрын
Hidden combos are stupid
@clayvonjnbaptiste5742
2 ай бұрын
Wow this video aged well
@dropshock284
9 ай бұрын
I’m not in the beta, but as a FG fan your explanations have me excited about the possibilities with the execution
@NoisyRogue
9 ай бұрын
Bruh as a FGC fan who has made it top 50 in strive and is top 500 in SF6 this has nothing to do with fighting games combo wise.
@kinathefox7309
9 ай бұрын
I was worried at first that the game wouldnt have much depth combat wise, since all the big people covering this game keep saying its too easy or the combos are too simple, just press x spam dodge and win yatta yatta. But watching this video you really showed that there sooo much more depth and thought put into the game that A TON of people just aren't seeing or willing to experiment with, thanks so much for this!
@meli77628
9 ай бұрын
I think the problem is that it has a lot of depth but you don’t need to use any of these. Because you can just press x and dodge.
@lordmanoyz5050
9 ай бұрын
@@Elio-nu3fz you can't spam dodge dodge in PGR lmao! You may be talking about hi3. Spamming dodge in pgr is suicide because you may run out of stamina real fast and you'll find yourself getting one-shot by the extremely aggressive bosses. You can't spam parry either because the timing of parries in pgr is really tight unlike in zzz which is very forgiving and the timing of parry in pgr varies per character, some characters' auto attack strings can match the pace of mother structures parry attack strings (for example), some don't so you still have to time it depending on who're you using. And as far as I know based on what I've watched in the streams and what the others who got into the beta said, zzz has semi-auto parries in which you only need to parry one attack in a parry attack string and your character will automatically parry all the successive attacks from the enemy (correct me if I'm wrong tho). So please stop spreading misinfo about pgr just to make zzz look more challenging.
@DarthDionius
9 ай бұрын
@@lordmanoyz5050 No, if the enemy does attack strings, you have to parry each attack (or dodge, both work on the golden flash) separately. Also, you can't spam dodge in HI3 either. It'll chain 2 dodges and then dodge will have some downtime. Parry is built into the AA, but only for melee units and only vs certain attacks, and it still requires some timing, though it's quite forgiving. But then HI3 is an old system optimised for new mechanics.
@CENTSU5
9 ай бұрын
@@lordmanoyz5050 Well you can spam dodge whenever you see the red light or heard the sound indication (which is present in both PGR and HI3) for enemies' attack until you trigger matrix. Getting better at dodging means clicking dodge less and less until you can perfect dodge by clicking once, and memorize their attack ofc. And you can use fast attacking characters or orb to guarantee parry in PGR.
@CENTSU5
9 ай бұрын
PGR players always beg to acknowledge their "skills" lmao.
@ebonyblossom13
9 ай бұрын
Please, please do more videos and/or showcases of what this game can do. You singlehandedly got me more interested in ZZZ than *everything* else out there on it.
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
I'll do my best. haha Glad you're into the game now, Ebony!
@OfentsePlays
9 ай бұрын
This is great, skill is actually rewarded in ZZZ. I really like being able to lab things like in a fighting game, and this just put a smile on my face. Thanks for the video, I wouldn't know this more so because I am not in the beta.
@jhii9950
9 ай бұрын
This is equivalent to learning icd and gauge theory in Genshin. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter coz you'll also clear the content with botton mashing.
@deathrayanimates6586
3 ай бұрын
Not really, That's you can only button mash if you're constantly leveling up or just using cheap long ranged characters to sweep fields. It's up to you whether or not you want to be a whale and spend tons of cash to get the best characters to sweep fields, or have a challenge and keep the level equivalent to a liking of your choice rather then based off what have to do. I actually beat the genshin storyline with mostly free characters and 1 5 star char, Free to play took me a CRAP ton of time to get past certain parts of the game (soely based on enemy damage and me not really leveling up)- Which kept me on the game for 2 years until I beat the story mode. The games come down to, beat the game trying to play based on challenge (Not really spinning, leveling up from time to time not keeping that as a key thought, usuing what youre given to try and beat the game) and have fun, or, spend tons of money to gain 5 stars characters that can sweep fields with the cheap builds consisted of other 5 star chars and get bored because it's too "easy".
@potatopcgamer739
9 ай бұрын
having the systems in the game and needing the system in the game are diff things
@SavageRodent
9 ай бұрын
When we say "we want someone competent playing the game", this is what we're talking about. Good shit. I'm back to being interested in the game.
@Stanger_95
6 ай бұрын
I do not consider everyone on yt who claims to be a gamer as a gamer. A true gamer is the one who takes their own sweet time studying the game mechanics and understanding them in detail. And then put the game theory to practise. Just being on a computer and playing casually doesn't makes on a gamer, it makes them a streamer. I really can't control my laughter when some idiots call themselves gamers all while skipping the tutorial popups and don't care reading the detailed notes available in game or even care to research about them. Just for a note, I highly regard you as one of the good gamers out there.
@cowgba
2 ай бұрын
I think your definition of a "gamer" might be a little too narrow, I would consider someone who dabbles in a lot of different games/genres to be just as much of a "gamer" as someone who goes deep into learning and theory-crafting one game. I do agree with your overall point about a lot of content creators ignoring tutorials and not engaging with basic mechanics though. It's always a frustrating experience watching a youtuber or streamer run around for 20 minutes struggling with a puzzle that would be super obvious if they actually paid attention to signposting.
@Stanger_95
2 ай бұрын
@@cowgba Yes, you are right. There are many individuals out there who indulge in and try varities of games and different genre. It is natural to feel hesitant when you see some big texts popup. But once, you start taking some effort to understand and practise, it is great. Many people even after release now are hating on ZZZ, I mean it's great! Yeah it needs improvement and I see it to have great potential and evolve ahead.
@felipematheuss
9 ай бұрын
What i understood from the video: The orb does indeed last that long
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
I caught myself saying this during the edit too. LOL
@Dominichunter5
9 ай бұрын
I appreciate you giving this bit of rare (in the EN cummunity, at least) insight on the mechanical nuances of these characters. This stuff looks genuinely cool! That said, there are a few moments in the video where you seem to be stating/implying that the obscure nature of these mechanics is a good thing, and I absolutely disagree with that. Labbing out combos and strategies is one thing, but getting a character to perform one of their abilities shouldn’t require learning about secret SPDs in their secret command list. That doesn’t encourage the average player to learn anything, and if you’re implying that only a tiny percentage of the playerbase should naturally discover these features by… randomly experimenting with inputs (???), I don’t think that’s good design either.
@fadedfiction2733
9 ай бұрын
Totally agree! It can be off in a side menu of the basic skillset ui or something, but these technical parts of the kit with entire animations need to be stated somewhere in the game imo. I get his mindset of "don't play this game if it isn't for you" but how do you expect people to consider all the aspects of a game that doesn't tell you some of them anywhere... this video has reignited my interest in this game's combat, so I think it's in the game's best interest to mention these complex mechanics at least somewhere
@samuel30853s
9 ай бұрын
good game supposed to have hidden mechanic like this, meanwhile bad game is teaching you like a dumbass toddler who cant have their own thought to explore everything on your own
@CyborgNinjaJesus
9 ай бұрын
Also, let's face it, MiHoYo makes super casual games. If they are not telling you about all this stuff, they aren't balancing for it either, which means that you won't need to learn to do all of this to beat the mobs anyway.
@peroastinktidakhandal
9 ай бұрын
bro why asking mihoyo making harder game but also asking the toddler tutorial. what kiyo show its just common knowledge tbh. is it genshin dev make a mistake not showing in tutorial that xianling can snapshoot bennet ULT so its make her really good as off-field DPS? this tiny hidden mechanic is not game breaking at all if you discover later its means you got another alternative strategy. its like you saying any game who doesn't explain i-frame in tutorial is bad design game . player doesn't need overload bunch of information at their games because its reduce the enjoyment explore something new
@meli77628
9 ай бұрын
@@peroastinktidakhandalwanting a harder game doesn’t mean we want hidden inputs that almost no one will discover randomly.
@BNuts
9 ай бұрын
I love it when Mihoyo makes a game that's deeper than it first appears. Those who only go surface level miss out on so much. I just hope more people are willing to dig than not. _ZZZ_ is already proving to be a hidden treasure. If only they could make the TV sequences breezier so people didn't get bogged down by puzzles. Make players not notice the puzzles, and get right back to the action. That's what I want. Oh, and _HI3_ 's stamina system.
@cowgba
2 ай бұрын
Now that the game is out I'm seeing a whole new wave of people saying the combat is too simple. I can see why they would think that if they only played the first few missions but pretty quickly into the prologue I started getting the feeling that there's a lot more depth in the combat than it seems on the surface. Like you said, yes maybe people can just mash through and clear the story without too much trouble, but the combat system isn't simple just because people refuse to engage with it beyond mashing buttons. I think ultimately there's just a vocal group of people who outright reject Hoyoverse games because 1) they're gacha games, and 2) they're popular. I haven't even hit account level 30 yet so I definitely can't speak to endgame difficulty, but I hope that the endgame (either currently or with future updates) will really challenge people to play skillfully and severely punish mashing. My only concern is whether the gear system is going to trample over that balance. I almost wish they had just left Drive Discs out or toned down the RNG significantly. Ideally endgame content would still challenge players with min-maxed gear but then it would be over-tuned for players who don't have optimal stats. On the other hand, if they tune it around players with stats that aren't optimal it could end up being like Genshin where players who min-max can casually button mash through everything in the game. I hope Hoyo has a solution in mind to handle that balancing - maybe they already do and I just haven't seen it yet - but time will tell.
@orenswrldd
9 ай бұрын
irregardless of anyone's issues with the game i personally cant wait for it to drop
@samuraichou7460
9 ай бұрын
i dont know for sure how challenging end game is, but given if its not that hard and boils down more towards having stats then having all these combos is gonna feel a little useless. Yes for sure i agree the game does have skill cause of these combos but hope to god we can use this skill expression to defeat challenging content.
@2BAMaster9
9 ай бұрын
0:32 That’s the thing though. Why would we play this game if we’re just going to be doing the same thing we’ve been doing in those games?
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
Then play the other games? This video isn’t about convincing any of you guys to play the game. 💀
@2BAMaster9
9 ай бұрын
19:45 Then what was the point? Just cause you can combo and use switch tech doesn’t mean anything if the game doesn’t challenge you to use any of these systems. Most of the stuff you showcased are all things you can do in Hi3rd. That game is a button masher with zero skill. The one thing you’re missing with your fighting game connection is that in fighting games you’re playing against other players. No point doing fancy efficient combos and stuff if you’re going up against AI bots.
@HollowProject
9 ай бұрын
@@2BAMaster9no point doing fancy ssstylish combos against ai monsters? Bruh you're definitely never played DMC or Bayonetta, this game is not for you
@2BAMaster9
9 ай бұрын
@@HollowProject this is not DMC or Bayonetta. Don’t even compare those games to this because they are not even on the same level
@HollowProject
9 ай бұрын
@@2BAMaster9 Yet they are in the similar genre and I can compare whatever I want, point still stands, there's obvious reason why people may and will do fancy combos even vs ai monsters.
@seabass8193
2 ай бұрын
just tested the nicole thing and it's still in the game. Itd be cool if you kept making videos showing stuff like that now that the game is out
@liquid_cheese9930
9 ай бұрын
I think main complain is about team tech. Not character tech. In genshin you have certain rotations. In Zenless you just switch between charcter in arbitrary order and use their skills. Also there is no environmental interaction. Like if you trigger discharge and then burning one effect just replaces another instead of triggering different effect (although this is nitpicking).
@DarkHarpuia
5 ай бұрын
Dang, this got me a lot more hype. I was very much under the impression that the game was really depthless, but this is pretty dope.
@syukkun2202
9 ай бұрын
This secret combo system could be a waste since we could just constantly dodge, parry and attack and win with good gear. So I dont think saying ZZZ take 0 skill was completely wrong. In a way, it is. People won't found this secret combo unless by coincidence or by experimenting with random input.
@shutup1037
9 ай бұрын
Moreover it's gacha game. Just get good gear and S tier char with good support you're good to go. Dont have to discover hidden mechanic when money win
@water2770
9 ай бұрын
I think it's good it's this way though. You want a game that anyone can play and get at least alright in without needing any special techs or whatever. Then they can slowly get more invested and maybe try out some more advanced techniques. Then the players who enjoy the advanced techniques can play around with them quite a bit.
@KABLAMMATS
9 ай бұрын
Knowing how the average mihoyo fans, they should never make it like "secret combo" people will mow that game in a week
@loserinasuit7880
2 ай бұрын
@@KABLAMMATS Secret combos are just bad game design. You're supposed to offset dominant strategy in these games and not enforce it.
@BIGCPU
9 ай бұрын
All this Controversy and i can't even play it
@Thesp_The_Thesp
7 ай бұрын
You've single handedly explained how the combat system actually plays in this game better than anyone else! Thank you!
@HarrisonWilliamsAnimation
2 ай бұрын
glad I found this video, I don't touch gatcha games at all but some of the trailers looked cool and figured what the hell. Some characters absolutely have more going on that just attack into super and I wanna figure that shit out now hopefully the final game still has that training mode so I can mess around a bit unrestrained lol
@Kittysune12
9 ай бұрын
thanks for creating this video i hope this will clear the confusion about combat depth the grace mechanic sound like dodge offset tech from bayonetta series where you can cancel any attack animation but it will still continue your combo
@kasando
9 ай бұрын
Thank you for this video. Not only did you teach me about Nicole which is my favorite unit. But I th ink you're 100% right. I'm currently doing level 40 - 50 content and it's not easy. The later stages of the game are tough and you gotta be active.
@KABLAMMATS
9 ай бұрын
Level up your characters
@kasando
9 ай бұрын
I have @@KABLAMMATS
@fadedfiction2733
9 ай бұрын
I definitely appreciate your video, and I do agree with almost everything, but I will disagree with one thing. I think the game SHOULD tell you things such as the alternate skill versions. It can be in a side menu to the basic moveset for people who dont care about the more technical combos, but it should still be there in my opinion. For things like switch tech, i don't really know if that needs to be said in game, but when there are different and animated versions of attacks, they should absolutely be mentioned somewhere in the game imo
@walfull1079
9 ай бұрын
I am interested in the game, I've yet to play it, but based on how your explaining how the game can go in a certain direction. I hope it comes out the way you would like it to come out
@Kekvin
9 ай бұрын
Without videos like these its hard to find these combos as an individual player, unless you go out of your way to find these small little combat niches. I think most players will still just end having the experience of "dash, hit, skill, burst." Great vid tho, super inciteful 👍
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
I’d hope players asking for skill expression and combos would want to experiment on their own in the game tho. 😅 It’s a way more fun experience that way.
@KABLAMMATS
9 ай бұрын
I think this type of game that one hidden input work on 1 char it will work for entire char roster but different effect
@MurakamiGin
9 ай бұрын
Glad to finally see an actual in-depth/technical look at the combat mechanics from someone who can see it from the perspective of fighting games! As a long time HI3 player, I already decided to all-in on ZZZ since even before the first beta, solely based on them saying it's gonna be rougelike dungeon. Didn't get into the beta, and had been holding any judgment till I get to play it myself, but your vid has definitely given me more confidence in the game as a whole.
@Shiwayari
9 ай бұрын
Appreciate this well needed info. As a pleb not invited to CBT it really does look very basic but this gives me a lot more hope for fun gameplay. Not a fighting game player, I only watch mainly smash tourneys once in a blue moon - but I love Monster Hunter and its combos so still praying this will be a great action combat game. These mechanics seem like very deliberate, i.e. the devs had to put them there - so I doubt they will go away (at least not without replacement). Which makes it a bit weird to me that the game seems to literally not tell you anything about these. Inputs not in the move list, no hints like "btw you can do this then that, try it" nothing. Maybe they thought content creators would hype it up more by discovering various combos etc., but I'm not sure that worked lol. Discovering combos is one thing, not giving hints for those is fine - though I'd personally prefer they just put every move in the move list. But I guess it can be fun to discover hidden ones. As long as some resource posts them all if they're not directly in the game it's fine I guess. Oh .. I can't say I like that an essential gameplay mechanic is locked on a signature weapon though (Nekomata). That kinda really sucks, hope they decide not to do that in the release version.
@Rar830
9 ай бұрын
Considering that entire portions of done characters kits are locked behind cons, I doubt that.
@smashmonkey6304
9 ай бұрын
I think one thing that is weird is some of the things like the 360 motion aren't on the move list. Even a fighting game would give you everything the characters can do. I've heard Andy has some other hidden things. I think this is what is tripping people up, and I agree, they should add more stuff like this. One concern is they are trying to make this TOO MUCH like Genshin when it should be its own thing.
@PythonDelta
9 ай бұрын
I disagree with your point about FGs listing everything out. For example in Tekken 7 some characters special "blue spark" moves are not listed. That aside I hope Hoyo leans in the FG direction being the discovery aspect
@BNuts
9 ай бұрын
_ZZZ_ is nothing like _Genshin_ . Well okay, they're both RPGs, but other than that, completely different. The combat is a more refined version of what you find in _HI3_ , but most people only have _Genshin_ and maybe _HSR_ as a frame of reference. It's sad. They sleep on _HI3_ because there's no EN dub. Their loss, though.
@Nutt_lemmings
9 ай бұрын
@@PythonDeltaits more of the devs dont care to put them in or forgot to than it being a discovery, new characters have their blue sparks and all their moves listed in the move list since they're so short compared to legacy characters. Hidden moves doesnt make the game any better, makes it worst. The interesting part of fighting games is actually playing it and lab monsters find fun in making crazy setups, not discovering moves the dev didn't list in a move list.
@firstnamelastname7587
9 ай бұрын
Heres the thing, All of the stuff you said is well and good and addressed the "game has no combos" argument, but it doesn't really tackle the other point of the game not taking skill. What you have described is the game having a high skill ceiling which is great. Being able to flex your skills and having an outlet to improve your gameplay is fantastic, but having a high skill ceiling doesn't mean the game takes skill. Since you will never be fighting against another human being, If the game is clearable by just mashing the basic attack button and dodging sometimes, the game takes no skill. You should show some footage of content where mashing literally doesn't work to combat that point. Also 2 minor complaints. As someone who loves Fighting games, finding emergent gameplay is really fun, but not telling the playerbase about core mechanics like alternative inputs is not something we should be praising. The FGC as a whole has been complaining about this for like a decade. And pretty much every mechanic you called fighting game mechanics has been staple in action RPGs for a while now. Animation Cancels and command inputs have been in these games since the PS2. I'm kinda curious how it feels more like a fighting game than anything Devil May Cry does for example.
@pixelmidas
9 ай бұрын
Legendary content right here. Hoping this will definitely be in the main game & you can create content on these kinda hidden mechanics when the game officially drops
@bingevilla
9 ай бұрын
i never would've expected that zzz would have this complexity in it's gameplay and i love it.
@yuubruh
9 ай бұрын
I really like your point but for me there’s a big thing that is, those things that you pointed out, i dont think it would apply to more casual players because the base gameplay is KINDA simple. But honestly for min maxing there’s a lot of little things that can really increase your numbers, just saying that it might not be applied to everybody or even necessary things to do in order to beat all of the game content.
@HakiKingEntertainment
9 ай бұрын
Fighting game controls is FIRE
@Soobins-Dimples
2 ай бұрын
valid take on this cause i low key will look for stuff while playing and be like wow i never knew that 💀
@engin93es
9 ай бұрын
I know it's just the beta, but do dailies and weeklies take long? Time is sadly a luxury for me nowadays, gachas can be scary Also, are you excited for Persona 3 Reload?
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
Dailies are easy. Weeklies you do passively. You won’t be finishing them in a day unless you refresh a lot of stamina, but they aren’t hard to do.
@AnimeGeniussGaming
9 ай бұрын
Not gonna lie. When I initially saw your videos defending ZZZ I assumed you were a fan just trying to defend the game from people being “mean”. But the last 2 videos including this one you have had strong points. I can’t play the beta so I appreciate these viewpoints too
@reveriesend4668
9 ай бұрын
The feels are still like HI3rd, imho, from what I observed (no beta, no device). So yeah if you have experience there, you're good to go imho. That includes experience in playing HI3rd with keyboard and mouse.
@mdsupa
9 ай бұрын
I heard that this game is a mixed of Persona 5, Genshin, and Fighting Game. The last part peaked my interest and you've confirmed it. I don't have the reflex, but I will want to try it.
@thiagobianki1684
9 ай бұрын
As a heck'n Slash player and FG enthusiast, this game is getting me very hyped, cant wait to actually play it... And btw, genshin has a good base for combos, but the game focus so hard on other stuff that it actually makes it hard to play like that.
@zaregotoch.8491
3 ай бұрын
I agree, I've been playing competitive games too and had fun labbing in ZZZ. This game is only button mashing if you're ignorant to what the possibilities are. I wouldn't be surprised if people start releasing combo videos and sh*t. Btw you pronounced Soukaku like "saw coco" but it's actually "soh kuh-koo".
@evilagram
2 ай бұрын
Coming from a fighting game, DMC, Bayonetta perspective. I don't think the arguments here hold an incredible amount of water. Yes, there are literally combos in this game. Yes, there are hidden inputs that can augment your moves or access secret moves. Yes, you can juggle enemies. Yes, you can cancel attacks into other attacks or dodges (The combo system isn't based on links, don't know why you said that in the video. Link would imply you CAN'T cancel or chain your attacks). But there aren't many moves/strings total (Bayo has over 60 strings, DMC4-5 has over 70 moves on Dante, DMC3 has about 20 at a time). And there isn't a lot of variation in hit reactions to moves. And the cancel windows for moves are incredibly wide. This means that performing advanced techniques is very easy from an execution perspective, and there isn't a lot to actually perform, and there isn't a lot you can do besides optimizing your DPS, or keeping the enemy in the air with the same launch arc. Despite you mentioning, "hidden fighting game inputs", you don't have to do a dragon punch motion. You don't have to do DMC's back-to-forward motion. You don't even have to hold forward, back, or sideways to get a command input like DMC or Bayonetta. The game is made very competently. The animations are great. They have cool animation transitions set up, and a lot of auxiliary systems to incentivize you to play in an efficient way and use your whole moveset. It's just not nearly close to a stylish action game. If the combo system worked like a fighting game one, you'd have to press multiple buttons, exactly on the hitstop of each move, and only into certain moves instead of any move. Instead there is a buffer. Instead you can cancel your attacks into dodge at any point. And all the games people are comparing this to simply have larger movesets with a wider range of possible hit reactions for enemies.
@clarinet800149
9 ай бұрын
Glad to see the implementation of fighting game mechanics. Also, struggling to figure out the best way to do Rising Uppercut inputs on my phone lol
@Mr_DE_0395
9 ай бұрын
Genshin day 1 is also like this, I was there, I know. Then come a year later, all of those mean nothing. So because you show me this, I can say it might be the same with this game in later stage of the game, all this "technique" is just there to trick people thinking this game has more depth, when in reality, in the later stage, it's all stat check, no matter how well you minimize the animation cancel, it meant nothing if your gear is having bad stat, and the mob will be design to literally prevent you doing these fancy animation cancel, it actually just more effective to just do some normal dodge and going back to do damage. And I stand by that until they change my mind. I must agree that they have design a combat very nicely to be complicated enough to make some feel like they're some pro gamer figuring this out but also not too complicated so that it can be P2W cause it's a gacha. I mean the entire trajectory is moving exactly the same like what happen with genshin. Taking 0 skills is a bit exaggerating, but it is not a complicated skill base game, I mean, shit, it's a gacha game.
@SpiritLegion
9 ай бұрын
This is 100% how its gonna be if honkai is anything to go by.
@chrisfalcon_vt
9 ай бұрын
I saw that happen with Closers (which had the best combat in MMOs for me), and Elsword (which became a ridiculously broken P2W game after Elrianode).
@CyborgNinjaJesus
9 ай бұрын
I think one of the main problems is that during the story/ early game, none of this matters at all. You can just mash your way through combat because it's too easy, that gives the impression the game is shallow. Even if there are more in depth mechanics, if they are only relevant in a small percentage of the content many might never discover them. I think currently the game has a serious pacing problem between the energy system and huge amounts of TV puzzles, the beginning seems too drawn out taking way too much time to reach the "good stuff" where you actually have to learn to play. Right now for the most part you can just win by pressing one button constantly without looking at the screen, and that's only ok for the first one or two hours of the game. I think MiHoYo has to do a better job at showcasing their combat system.
@Rar830
9 ай бұрын
There’s actually a video of a winning a stage while on his phone and mindlessly pressing the attack button. “Imagine the amount of stuff I could get done while playing this game”.
@deathrayanimates6586
3 ай бұрын
True, but that's a choice if you just play without thinking of fun, sure level up characters to max as soon as you get them, constantly roll for one 5 star char, and win the game playing mindlessly, if you want to have fun use the in depth stuff, and don't put rolling for the newest 5 star on the mind first and same goes for leveling up equipment and chars for a challenge, the problem with new player is that they don't look into the game they only look at what it shows on screen and not it's functions. The Genshin Players get bored because of them constantly leveling up everything 100% and getting 5 stars all the time, and based on that put that mindset to every other game Hoyoverse has, making it "too easy". The games have a full level system where you can beat the games easily but that isn't the main goal and that's the wrong mindset to have coming into new games early into the story, half the time for people get genshin don't even know you could equip equipment onto chars mid game and wondered why the game was so hard. The mindset people need to have for these types of games should be "Let's play the game focusing on the story, side quests and level up from time to time." Not "Let's level up every char to max level instantly and get all 5 star chars and then beat the game." That's how these games die out quickly, those who play the game soley to get everything and then beat the main core and think it's too easy with level max best equips and strong 5 star and people who look at their reviews speaking on difficulty.
@shotgunshogun4707
9 ай бұрын
This video is truly as based as they get cause iyo hit the haters with the "show, don't tell" mix, and they ain't blocking that. I'm a fellow fighting game enthusiast and the fact that u managed to link up fighting game concepts like special cancelling, i frames (aka DP...kind of) as well as circular motion input which is basically a TK input is rly cool to see .I sill think the game needs a lot of work in terms of structural progression cause it should be intuitive for players to look for these things from the start, not 10 hours later. Keep up the good work, man 👍
@glazedgooch4546
9 ай бұрын
This whole vid means nothing if the game is brain dead ez. If you can beat it by spamming, then mtashed is right. Maybe show us some difficult combat missions.
@shotgunshogun4707
9 ай бұрын
@@glazedgooch4546 not to be too mean or anything, but u literally either didn't watch the video or didn't bother before commenting. The subject matter or this video is disproving the claim that all the game has to offer is brainless spam with no depth or substance to its combat. Which iyo very much did in this video. Not to mention, you don't need a super difficult game in order to have enjoyable combat. Look at DMC. DMC 5 isn't insanely difficult at all yet it has arguably the best looking and feeling 3rd person combat system probably ever and the catch being the better u get using it the more fun u have not cause the enemies are more difficult later on. The point being, saying that this video could mean nothing if the game turns out to be easy ( which isn't fully the case ) is disingenuous cause this video was never about that part of the game.
@glazedgooch4546
9 ай бұрын
@seggsmaster9704 once again the vid is pointless because as far as we know spamming is good enough to get through everything.
@mugenzero007
9 ай бұрын
@@glazedgooch4546you must not have seen boss fights. Also it is a gacha. If you have units at max level with best in slot gear, you’re melting everything anyway. Even if the endgame content has bosses with phases. It means nothing with best gear in any game. Hell, they literally made genshin easier because complained it was too hard. I don’t think a lot of the community even care about challenge.
@keneunaegbu851
9 ай бұрын
Haters lol
@ursmarrings27
9 ай бұрын
With fighting games it’s always elements with intrinsic value that hold just as much weight if not more than extrinsic elements like the amount of damage dealt because of limitations like damage scaling. So when that creativity moves over to other parallel-minded games (Souls-borne, Mon-Hun, DMC/Platinum Games) without such limitations like DS, you end up finding new ways to play than the conventional “what equipment nets me the most stats”. Genshin has been one of the most chill games for me, and yet I honestly play like how Iyo describes the mindset above. It’s why I have Sacrificial series as my favorite 4-star weapon, I have as much fun playing “jazz” as I would customizing my Serenitea Pot. I honestly can’t wait for Zenless Zone Zero to come out. This was honestly the game I was kinda asking for back when I was answering Genshin feedback surveys.
@lachicoblanco
9 ай бұрын
Very happy that you posted this, I watched all 3 vids and am proud and excited for zenless. I hope I can play it when it comes out, because I don't think my laptop can run it and my phone doesn't have a lot of storage
@dennisl9176
9 ай бұрын
Hoyo definitely loves animation cancelling so all of that will be in the game for sure. the Nicole thing is super interesting but tbh it feels unintentional to me. I cant think of an example of them doing something like that before. It almost feels like the extra version was supposed to be removed but who knows. Unfortunately Ive noticed that hoyo likes to parch unintentional tech
@ForTheViolence
9 ай бұрын
Bro got the switch tech from Marvel vs Capcom. Storm blizzard into magneto rush down. With that said I hope they keep working on this game.
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
Bro right!? I mentioned fighting games or Dark Souls and some of them lost their minds and anything being comparable. lol MvC2 was crazy with assists!
@viermixskraiztex2266
9 ай бұрын
With this the iyo dude secured the future juicy sponsor for this game
@Kyle81290
9 ай бұрын
After watching some streams cheesing the fights spamming one attack or parry baiting, yeah, the combat is joke
@Xailei_
9 ай бұрын
I hope zzz keeps these things coming. Give us more animations cancels
@MystSadge
9 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing these, I've been hoping this game had skill expression and this is definitely a good start.
@anonwalkerr
9 ай бұрын
The fighting game player belief that tech shouldn't be made accessible makes no sense. Being a lab rat is great and all but there is nothing wrong with advanced tutorials. Sure there's hidden tech that is cool to find out on your own but if they gave people the resources themselves it'd be much better. This is a gacha, people spend 15-20 minutes a day on them. Character action doesn't blend naturally with this genre and it would be beneficial to accomodate that for their existing hoyo audience. Accessibility is why fighting games don't get big its just a fact that they intimidate people, the game is already easy but if people think it's easy with no depth then it's just wraps.
@endomax787
9 ай бұрын
I wish there was more combat. the combat feels smooth and fun. but i guess we gotta play worse versions of genshin puzzles to unlock combat. also, to contribute to the video, I have not seen anyone do the move where nicole sit on the floor. and I didnt even know I could do that.
@ClawBreaker52
9 ай бұрын
Ngl spit my drink a bit when I heard how he said Shoukaku. I'm calling her Shawcoco from now on
@mugenzero007
9 ай бұрын
I had no idea they had a lab! THEY HAVE A LAB!
@SoulK37
9 ай бұрын
If there is "hidden" stuff that the game doesn't tell you and people don't know cause they were never told then it's absolutely the game's fault for not explaining such mechanics. Especially when it's such a big deal, in your words "if these mechanics are not in the game on release then the game is dead". Obviously people that never experience these things are gonna have a different opinion on the game and the combat system and it's hard to blame them. Another point of discussion is, okay cool you can do all this stuff, but do you need to? Or will mashing, for example, get you there anyway? Cause if that's the case then it would be annoying and make the whole thing kinda pointless.
@gengu8495
9 ай бұрын
Gatekeeping kills games. Dont gate keep if you want it to live
@momsaccount4033
2 ай бұрын
The pronunciation of Soukaku’s name hurts me. Actually dealt psychic damage to me lmao
@TooManyDecibels
9 ай бұрын
The 3rd Strike soundtrack stills goes hard all these years later
@Isami510
9 ай бұрын
System may be cool But if you are "playing the game wrong" by playing exactly how it's presented to you it's either a very bad game or developers really fkd up with explaining game mechanics/don't know how the game works themselves Which in any case is a big fault from the developers side and in the last case can lead to ridiculously wrong direction of future updates and unnecessary/random stupid changes (like it happened with diablo 4) p.s. as you can guess I REALLY hate when developers hide game mechanics like CIA secrets and expect players to utilize them
@gnrc
9 ай бұрын
bro thank you sm i havent gotten into a beta so its so nice to finally see someone with the same mindset from fighting games actually lab shit out and break down the more nuanced aspects of the game good shit
@natewrites6397
9 ай бұрын
This is what I love to see! Keep it up man! Im learning a lot
@tikkibomb8101
9 ай бұрын
I agree with everything except calling Honkai impact 3rd as straight foward as genshin and star rail(haven't played). It isn't that much different from what they did with charaters in Honkai impact 3rd , if anything these characters mechanics seem more straightfoward than the mechanics they stuff into characters in honkai impact 3rd.
@magmaspacer1967
9 ай бұрын
So it seems like you can just button mash for a bit, but there are routes and depth that you can explore if you want to.
@LeonBlade
9 ай бұрын
I found Nicole's input the other day when playing around with her, it's really cool to find this stuff. There's way more tech in this game than Genshin. I can't believe when I see people saying that it's the same as Genshin or that somehow Genshin has more tech. These people cannot be playing this game at all right now. Another important note about Anby is that you have two different finishers as well. If you want to build more daze, you use her basic finisher, if you want to do more damage, you use the Thunderbolt finisher. These little things here and there really make the game feel like it's an actual action combat system with nuance.
@catchemalltcg5485
9 ай бұрын
I really hope this won’t be a tv simulator cuz that alone is my biggest turn away from the game if they don’t change it I probably won’t be touching it but I do think the info on ur vid is changing my view completely
@MorbidEel
9 ай бұрын
2:15 Did you use some sort of gap closer skill or is that built into the basic attack?
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
Ooooh! The super fast zip Nekomata did? That's the saucy stuff! If you fast cancel / piano the attack right after the dash input, she basically carries the momentum of what should've been a dash in her attack. The cool thing that ends up happening though is if you do it right, she'll basically zip halfway across the entire screen in the blink of an eye.
@is_gambit_paranoid
9 ай бұрын
Point is we have many combos and theoretical stuffs in genshin as well. But none of that matters coz genshin is too easy. I'm afraid ZZZ will face similar situation where u have a lot of cool combos to do but none of em matters coz only spamming gets the job done as well
@renno2679
4 ай бұрын
17:05 So you can spit roast in this game? Anyway I hope this game takes off like Star Rail. All this makes me really want to play it. But if Wuthering Waves is also good, then I'm in trouble.
@user-qr4jf4tv2x
9 ай бұрын
20:51 sounds like low tier god
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
LTG the goat.
@certainperson
9 ай бұрын
This game may take more skill than Genshin but it doesn't prioritize it. I'm still looking forward to it but in no way am I going to kid myself into thinking skill is gonna help much or at all, if my drive dics aren't good.
@crowing3886
9 ай бұрын
The difference is how genshin players play based on their elemental reactions. Just different roles entirely. ZZZ doesn't have that or so many(me included) thought originally because you don't unlock everything from jump.
@neithankei
9 ай бұрын
Sure or you can just mash and kill anyway
@sath43
9 ай бұрын
Not the high-level/endgame enemies.
@neithankei
9 ай бұрын
@@sath43 ok. Idk, What if I mash long range characters? Surely it will die right?
@sath43
9 ай бұрын
@@neithankei I just did some research and found out you were right.
@silvercloud5344
9 ай бұрын
You make some good points, but have to disagree about the game not making any effort to incentivize players to learn about those techs. You can't I one breath say “ the same doesn't know who their audience is. Zzz your audience are fighting game head like me.” the in the next vid say “ they don't have to advise this aspect of the same.” Dark souls, monster hunter and so on are all games that force their plays to learn this things in order to play the game. I might not be explaining this well but I hope you got the point.
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
I kinda understand what you're saying, Silver, but I believe the reason I'm stating those quotes is because of what I mentioned in this vid. In a fighting game, SF for instance, it teaches me how to combo, but it doesn't teach me how to perform a 50% high execution counterhit combo in a back and forth with my opponent. ZZZ teaches you its core mechanics (albeit Lv15, but still) to perform all of these things. it's up to the player to figure out how they want to use those actions. Again, my brain just works differently if I find out any kind of game lets me cancel something. lol
@silvercloud5344
9 ай бұрын
@@Iyoverse The different between SF and ZZZ is the fact that Sf is a straight up pvp 1v1 fighting game with monetary reward for being good and doing those research and techs like that. The incentivize is literally built into to the game, “be a better player than your opponent”. If the game( keyword “if” I don't have access to the game so im open to just being wrong.) takes the first half the game making spam buttons and randomly have to 3x differently spike, then that's a quick way to key your game. People how thought this games was going to be hard wouldn't get to that point and the people how thought it was another genshin would quit or shitpost about the game once they get to that point. That being said, key point of my. Argument is the exploration of those tech are incentivize by the pvp nature of the game.
@ImKenjutsuu
9 ай бұрын
Wuthering Waves has the same switch tech/tag in system whatever you wanna call it. Probably also gonna have more combat than TV simulator here which is the main thing from zzz that sucks
@Iyoverse
9 ай бұрын
Someone needs to get me into that beta.
@quantumreality8987
9 ай бұрын
Literal Honkai Impact DPS mechanics
@Yasviele
2 ай бұрын
I found out about Nicole hidden arts today (I changed the Ex skill to mouse 4 to be able to do it in keyboard with WDSA circle) and I have to say, the game failed to convey all that you can actually do and a reason for that is that right now, you don't need to, you can spam and clear everything anyway, so I hope that improves and that more characters get more depth but as long as the game stays "too easy" it won't beat the allegations. And the fact that after launch, we wouldn't know about this tech without finding a random reddit thread is a problem
@Renin_Reyulo
2 ай бұрын
What's frustrating is that for combat, you have to meet all these conditions for value while smartly using one button for attack. Like you have to slap them from a 45 degree angle at 25° C when your breath smells like an elephant to gigashart damage. It doesn't feel like a dance with the enemy at all. I don't want challenges to be based on inconvenience, health sponges, inflated numbers of enemies, and time attack. Now I get it's a gacha, but the game gave such a different set of expectations and there's nothing wrong with if they added more depth. It's just what makes me and others worry. It's just that the game is tackling different techniques to chew on food, when the food (combat) tastes stale.
@KazYual
2 ай бұрын
I heard a viewtiful Joe quote at the beginning, you have my attention
@Saber_fgc
9 ай бұрын
Iyo, fellow fgc fella here. Really appreciate the content my brother, hopefully this opens more eyes
@StargazingCeres
9 ай бұрын
The more I play the beta, the more it feels like PGR and HI3 in a different skin, just less advanced (not saying inferior, just newer). I almost never play FGs though, so I likely wouldn't notice any deep 'fighting game-esque' intricacies that set it apart from PGR/HI3. I'm in the "if they want people to engage with certain systems, they should at least drop a cursory explanation" camp, but hidden moves can be kinda cool if they aren't some 100% necessary component to progress. I get that certain people hate feeling like the game is handholding them, but gatekeeping and elitism really doesn't foster a healthy playerbase, maybe *some* amount of tutorials will benefit everyone.
@emberthecatgirl8796
9 ай бұрын
I honestly can't wait until we get proper shuttle dashes and attacks. Yeah, Nekomata's hold basic has a shuttle component, but if you look at characters like Swallowtail Phantasm.
@Max465
9 ай бұрын
I will say. While I do agree that hidden tech (Such as canceling out of holds) is great. I don't know if I would classify what Nicole is doing in the same way. Which is to say I do think it should be mentioned somewhere on her move list. Hopefully it's an oversight and not something they forgot to take out of the full game. Cause I do like the idea of having directional inputs in the game.
@zendao7967
9 ай бұрын
The meta for any game (especially for gacha games) will always gravitate toward the most brain-dead solution available. It's funny when the meta slaves who use said brain-dead methods now judge the game as being too easy and shallow.
@chrisfalcon_vt
9 ай бұрын
This reminds me of the most frustrating experiences with this: Elsword. Prior to Lanox, there was some dexterity required. Eternity Winner and Sakra Devanam had some of my favorite skill trees and combo strategies, but now pretty much everyone presses shift, use a COBO recovery potion, rinse, repeat and pray that the game's kick system doesn't boot you out of dungeons while letting hackers spam psychic artillery with 0 cooldown and 0 MP cost. Stopped playing after Elrianode, after I saw how much Varnimir content pretty much consisted of oneshot spamming, not to mention Elsword became extremely pay2win and people defending that change makes me hate the game even more.
@rdr.erased
9 ай бұрын
Simple strings but already different from the other games
@PythonDelta
9 ай бұрын
Simple but makes all the difference. Hope they continue in this direction and don't back pedal to try and cater to everyone (not to gatekeep ofc)
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