My view of this that HS2 could have been viewed as a strategic asset, because if need to we could use it to transport military hardware such as tanks and armoured vehicles. Something we haven't done due to the Challenger Tanks being larger than the UK loading gauge. This could be paid for by the defence budget in part. If we did this we could move forward in the long run establishing new defence industry along the route.
@andrewd9622
10 сағат бұрын
It's like HS2 but worse and with extra steps
@Will-kp1iv
11 сағат бұрын
Honestly I'd rather they just restarted the 2nd leg of HS2 with some investigation into the cost overruns.
@arthur1670
11 сағат бұрын
8:03 PPI ….. just fake government debt
@IrnBruXtra
12 сағат бұрын
It would be better if the NW, NE and Scotland got independence and formed a new country. The South of the country can't function itself, the midlands are useless and without the NW, NE and Scotland the Midlands and South would fail. Why should the NW, NE and Scotland have to put up with the rest of the country? All the money used for HS2 could solve the homeless crisis, fix pot holes in roads and build more flats. Westminster do not care about anything past the Midlands.
@jammiedodger7040
12 сағат бұрын
Need to rebuild the British locomotive and rolling stock industry.
@jammiedodger7040
13 сағат бұрын
They should restore the tilting mechanism on all the Class 221’s.
@jammiedodger7040
13 сағат бұрын
There is the money it is just being spent in the wrong places.
@jammiedodger7040
13 сағат бұрын
We need to rebuild the British locomotive and rolling stock Industry rather than relying on foreign companies.
@jammiedodger7040
13 сағат бұрын
Ballasted track works great if you use good high quality British Steel which should be renationalised. Also use high quality wood for the ballasts.
@exercept-mn7sw
9 сағат бұрын
nowhere uses wooden sleepers anymore, not least because the preservatives to make them last that long are basically too carcinogenic, and prestressed concrete sleepers are far better and less maintenance-heavy overall.
@jammiedodger7040
13 сағат бұрын
The railway network needs to be built to the scale of 1960.
@Da_Big_G
14 сағат бұрын
It is debatable if a European loading gauge would ever be useful, since the HS1-HS2 link was cancelled at an early stage, meaning there will be a gap of under a mile stopping European-gauge links to Europe.
@exercept-mn7sw
9 сағат бұрын
The land acquisition part and planning geometries are one of the first things to be decided and it's best to stick to what phase 1 has been designed to, even just for fleet commonality reasons. With the move to ETCS signalling, it will be easier than ever to get the best value rolling stock from around the world on the better loading gauge. Also the double-deck trainsets as used in NA and continental Europe would be a low-cost, high-gain benefit for passenger capacity.
@bobbster504
14 сағат бұрын
German here: Building a high speed railway on ballasted tracks is an absolute no-go! The airstream of high speed trains cause stones to blow up, which could result in severe damages. I think the approach with lower speeds is not that bad. The stations are relative close to each other, so it might be more (cost and energy) efficient to travel at a lower speeds (250 km/h or less like in some areas in Germany) than accelerating and decelerating again. Also lower speed only make sense if they lower the cost by avoiding some tunnels and bridges because the route doesn't have to be that straight anymore.
@barvdw
10 сағат бұрын
And yet, the Belgians did it, the French as well... There are drawbacks, but it does work. That said, ICE is limited to 250 in Belgium because of their more aerodynamic form where Eurostars can run up to 300 because of the reason you mentioned, but of all the cost-saving measures, it's one I can get behind.
@exercept-mn7sw
9 сағат бұрын
Roughly half the "high speed" railways in Germany, in pure kilometres of track built and upgraded, are 200kph (i.e. the same 125 Mph max speed already found on much of the ECML and for pendolinos on the WCML, indeed for any trains on subsections thereof). Slabbed track also involves extra expertise and equipment per metre of rail, in particular for dampeners. Ballasted track also might work comparatively better in wetter climates, though research is still somewhat inconclusive. But the advantages of slabbed track diminish with reduced max speed, research suggests. I think lowering max speed to 300kph while keeping the land acquisition for 360kph geometries, and using a mix of ballasted track and slabbed track in more troublesome places like where high-speed points are located, would be a real cost saving. But the loading gauge shouldn't change.
@57bananaman
15 сағат бұрын
Good, informative video but I think that the notion that people going to "Central London" won't be happy if the line doesn't terminate at Euston is totally overblown, Euston Station isn't really in "Central London", it's on its northern fringe. The new HS2 station at Old Oak Common will have a direct connection to The Elizabeth Line which actually DOES go through "Central London" so anyone heading down from Birmingham etc. wanting to go to Oxford Street, Holborn or The City would change at Old Oak Common irrespective of whether the line continued to Euston, as would those heading to Heathrow Airport, Canary Wharf, Stratford or anywhere else along the Elizabeth Line or the lines it connects with. Old Oak Common is also very close to The Central Line and the Bakerloo Line and Overground at Willesden Junction. Not going through to Euston isn't ideal but it is by no means as bad as some make out.
@mentallysensible
15 сағат бұрын
I get the impression that the critical flaw with this plan is that it follows the logic of HS2 itself, which in itself seemed critically flawed. The design seems to work on the principle of there being three places that need a line drawing between them (London Euston, Birmingham and Manchester). The middle area is network is neglected, leaving the second class cities/towns in the middle (Stoke, Coventry, Wolverhampton on the West Coast, and before cancellation Nottingham, Leicester, Derby, Doncaster, Wakefield on the Eastern leg) without direct connections into the "system". It also completely ignores the potential for through services that aren't going to finish on the High Speed Network, but could still prospectively gain something from journey time savings of using short - medium lengths of High Speed track (eg. Cross Country services - if they were to use the HS2/this proposal, they'd hit Curzon Street and not be able to go onward to their current end points - at most they can go Manchester to Crewe at which point they have to use the slower track options and the same was true before the Eastern Leg was cancelled - they'd just have to use the existing network and aren't considered in the plan). Really the targets of any plan should be: * Existing stations on the WCML should see no reduction in service frequency or the journey time of services to either Manchester, Birmingham, London Euston or locations North of Manchester. Without intermediate connections allowing High Speed trains to stop at intermediate places on their way up/down, it seems to become less viable for these stations to receive as many London/Manchester/Birmingham services - classical services running on the old track become immediately uncompetitive/make less sense, and places that currently get a service by being conveniently positioned on the WCML and being key stops by virtue of them being reasonably populous and "in the way so we might as well stop there" essentially risk becoming disconnected. * High Speed rail should serve as many current secondary stops; ie. locations served by Avanti at current, so Stoke, Macclesfield, Crewe, Stafford, Stockport; as possible, so as to spread the benefit as widely as possible (links to the previous point). This is probably a natural consequence of the previous requirement. If Stoke, as an example, was on the High Speed tracks, it could have the same or more frequent service than it has at current, and have these services be significantly faster. The space between Manchester and Birmingham is not a void that only contains Crewe and other cities and towns deserve to reap the benefits of improved connectivity as much as is possible. Perhaps in some cases needing it more so than locations that are more independently prosperous like Manchester. Not saying that Stockport, as an example, needs to be directly on the tracks, but there certainly should be an exit/entrance point for services to do things like Manchester >[Existing Tracks]> Stockport >[High Speed Tracks]> London Euston or Manchester >[High Speed Tracks]> Crewe >[Existing Tracks]> Stafford >[Existing Tracks]> Birmingham >[High Speed Tracks]> London Euston * All existing long distance journeys that go between Manchester, Birmingham and London should be able to take advantage of higher track speeds to reduce journey times, not a limited subset that are specifically going from Manchester to Birmingham without going on to another destination so as to extend the connectivity advantage further afield. Thinking of CrossCountry services mainly here, this would allow the South West and Bristol to have some benefit of improved connections to Manchester and the North thereof, spreading the benefit wider than just Birmingham, Manchester and London). Curzon Street needs to have through platforms connecting to lines South of Birmingham or there needs to be an exit point that allows Cross Country trains (presumably ones which can run at the higher line speeds) to use New Street and High Speed tracks. Also thinking of the current Avanti services that go via New Street and then continue northwards (eg. Glasgow, Edinburgh, Blackpool North) which could not be delivered as through services and then become far slower and/or less viable than their counterparts that can zip up bypassing Birmingham and/or continue to Euston on High Speed Track - Curzon Street's status as a terminus makes these services impossible to deliver as through services using the network South or North of Birmingham. Of course with just the Manchester and Birmingham Metro Mayors involved in this, everywhere else is likely to be ignored. And likely to their detriment.
@stephenspackman5573
15 сағат бұрын
Planned failure. As a culture, we need to come to terms with the fact that half (measurably, almost exactly half) of humanity are evil SOBs whose sole goal in life is to make sure that future generations have a worse time than they do.
@allyspeedruns
15 сағат бұрын
One of the main concerns Andy Burnham had with HS2 being scrapped is that the capacity was mostly wanted, not necessarily the higher speeds. I still think we shouldn't settle for any BS downgrades. The country invented rail. Why can't we act like it? It's pathetic. Tax the billionaires, give them the ultimatum to pay their fair share or leave the UK with their businesses. Then we'd see some proper infrastructure.
@jacobstrains-vr6uw
15 сағат бұрын
get rid of them. I travel from Sheffield to derby burton and Tamworth normally but do sometimes go north on them and since the HSTs got retired xc has just been horible with the only half denent trains in the fleet being the 170s
@JasonAtlas
16 сағат бұрын
I want to go back to before I watched this video and new how much this was getting shagged.
@TootlinGeoff
16 сағат бұрын
We're still not getting the Eastern link. It's needed just as much.
@joegrey9807
16 сағат бұрын
I would think that if/once it's been approved then various aspects would be revised. "Having worked through the proposals in more detail we can construct to the European loading gauge at comparable costs, but with long term savings of having double deck trains with lower weight per passenger,..." Or something like that. The other points - how difficult would it be to rebuild using slab track, and what physical characteristics were being planned that will reduce the top speed, and can this be reversed later on? Avoiding the tunnel at Crewe, and PPP are less worrisome
@johnburns4017
16 сағат бұрын
Manchester, or its metro area does not necessitate scarce funds for only that region, which is also currently well served, while others are ignored. Manchester is no second tier city like Munich, Chicago, Milan, Barcelona, etc. HMG is not that daft to do such a politically suicidal thing despite the issuing of the none-HMG/DfT Burnham/Higgins comic book. It is very nice here on terra firma, come down. All we need is: *1)* a Stafford bypass, *2)* upgrading the more direct Stoke-Manchester line, keeping Mcr trains off the WCML entirely. Stoke also benefit, *3)* reuse the nine mile Macclesfield-Marple line to add capacity bypassing Stockport, *4)* have direct/express to Liverpool & Mcr, 300m trains, *5)* Make WCML 4-track from Crewe to Weaver junction. What is not to like?
@aw34565
16 сағат бұрын
If the trains have two doors per carriage can one door allow passengers to alight at one platform height, and the other door allow passengers to alight at the other platform height?
@dernwine
16 сағат бұрын
Going for UK loading gauge is inane. It's hamstrings any future developments from HS1 and 2.
@johnburns4017
16 сағат бұрын
HS2 was/is a money cesspit. It had to be cancelled. It should never had seen the light of day. *HS2 is a solution trying to find a problem.*
@simonh317
16 сағат бұрын
How to tell the world you have no clue about route diagrams or capacity yet have an opinion
@johnburns4017
14 сағат бұрын
@@simonh317 The costs were out of control. _High Speed UK_ has the best route. *HS2 is a bad solution trying to find a problem.*
@soj_89
16 сағат бұрын
The British loading gauge bit is the only bit which I think ruins the proposal. Other than that, it's just a slightly slowed down HS2 phase 2
@J0hn029
17 сағат бұрын
Agree with most of the comments. You're all sensible. For an addition, I would recommend a link from the bham flying junction to the MML towards Tamworth and derby. Electrify and upgrade MML to Sheffield, Nottingham, x country etc
@NetworkNewsUK
16 сағат бұрын
Hopefully something like this gets considered because it would be an immense waste of the flying junction not to do something with it! Could also significantly reduce the journey time to Sheffield and provide some capacity relief to the southern section of the MML even if not as much as would have been provided under the original HS2 scheme.
@ajd8848
17 сағат бұрын
God almighty can we just build the damn thing and stop bickering over how much we can cut from the original plans? Switching from European gauge is such a shortsighted idea. Not a fan of switching to ballasted track either but at least that can be fixed in the future.
@jammin023
17 сағат бұрын
Great analysis. We really just need to get on and un-cancel HS2. So much of the price has already been spent and is unrecoverable, and it's clearly the best way to proceed from where we are now. We should not accept any kind of private finance either, that was always just a bit of "creative accounting" but has saddled the taxpayer with far higher costs over the long term. The fact is, it's always cheaper for the government to borrow money, than the private sector, even before they put their profit margins on top. And do we really want a private company being responsible for maintenance? We tried that with Railtrack, it didn't work out so well... At a time when the government is committed to nationalising the railways - with good reason! - having the jewel in the crown being effectively privatised would be a huge mistake.
@Spica1000
17 сағат бұрын
Well, we’ve got to have some sort of high speed link, we’re falling behind Europe generally as it is! In danger of becoming a third world transport infrastructure
@dugowf766
17 сағат бұрын
So short sighted. If you’re going to do it, do it right, and connect it with the rest of the HS system.
@ABTrainsYT
18 сағат бұрын
I’d very much like to see dual gauge working if and when this GB/NI tunnel gets built, because then we’d see ScotRail and maybe Iarnród Éireann services serving Dublin, Belfast and Glasgow ScotRail’s Glasgow Central to Belfast Grand Central route could serve the following: - Paisley Gilmour Street - Ayr - Portpatrick - Larne Town - Whitehead - Carrickfurgus - Belfast Lanyon Place & Belfast Grand Central And the Iarnród Éireann Glasgow to Dublin route (if it ever happens) would run nonstop between Glasgow and Portpatrick, then will stop at Larne Town, then run express to Belfast and then will serve Portadown, Newry, Dundalk, Drogheda and then Dublin Connolly.
@DemonofChaos264
18 сағат бұрын
As someone who lives in Golborne, the cuts at 5:01 were really frustrating for everyone here. We have been told earlier this year that they plan to build a train station for real this time, but nobody believes them.
18 сағат бұрын
Don't be confused between commercial speed and maximum speed. Most of europe high speed tracks have a commercial speed of 300-320 kph but their max speed can reach 360 kph.
@Harve6988
19 сағат бұрын
Just reinstate the second leg of Hs2. Alternative proposals are a waste of time, and will take years and years of parliamentary nonsense.
@jamesturner6339
19 сағат бұрын
It's typical of UK governments - the motto on infrastructure spending seems always to be "every expense spared." Build it cheap and let the next generation worry about its inadequacies. Just like "smart" motorways - we don't really need those hard shoulders, now do we?
@andrewwatson5324
19 сағат бұрын
If hs2 can't be resurrected as intended, at least keep the Loading gauge to allow trains to go further north, the track can always be upgraded later.
@andyyu5957
19 сағат бұрын
Why do trains *need* to travel so fast? If I was a business traveller, I am good as long as the train travels faster than the motorway speed limit, and as long as there is a good wifi connection. Resistance is proportional to v², so doubling the speed quadruples the power required. Remember that electricity is not getting cheaper (no more cheap gas imports).
@barvdw
10 сағат бұрын
To compete with flights, because the extra cost is rather minimal, and because faster travel times also mean faster turnovers for both staff and rolling stock. Now, I'm not convinced about +300 speeds, I think 300-320 is the sweet spot, even on lines with a theoretical higher speed, this seems the most common commercial speed, as you pointed out, the operational energy cost goes up exponentially. Also, don't forget that most trains have intermediate stops which eat away travel time, you need to compensate for that as well. I expect electricity to not get much more expensive, as it can be produced domestically relatively cheaply, with wind farms, solar panels, hydro, and even nuclear, once the plant is operational, that is. If it goes up, it will be because of higher demand, not the need for costly gas or oil import.
@andyyu5957
19 сағат бұрын
£8 billion is spent every year housing, feeding, and educating "asylum seekers". Coastguards are welcoming them at the half way point in the Channel, they get to stay in nice hotels and anyone questioning the status quo are jailed for hurty words. And they want to save a few billion pounds by not building the second phase. Someone has got their priorities the wrong way round.
@marksmith334
20 сағат бұрын
It’s was always complete pie in the sky nonsense
@HandiTransport
20 сағат бұрын
To block the possibility of running European guage trains is plain stupid. This means that the UK would be blocked from buying off the shelf high speed trains from the big European manufacturers and even blocked from buying secondhand trainsets. The cost savings aren't worth it. That said any savings from running at a slightly slower speed (300kph) are probably worth it as the short route probably has only a short distance able to be run at the higher speeds and the associated time saving probably doesn't justify the extra energy usage.
@barvdw
10 сағат бұрын
Agreed, especially as even those lines where there's a theoretical maximum speed of over 300, the commercial speed is generally limited to 300, as the extra operating cost is hardly worth it. That operating cost goes up exponentially... 300 to 320 seems to be the sweet spot.
@plantsmgee
20 сағат бұрын
wouldnty it be amazing to get the train to paris, or berlin. or link with the other parts of the uk like gibraltar?
@enemyofthestatewearein7945
20 сағат бұрын
Personally I wouldn't get too hung up on the *technical* details of this report, because IMO it's largely a *political* exercise to re-frame the debate, and in this it's done a very good job: 1) It re-establishes the genuine need to deliver HS2's capacity (or something similar), after the temporary Covid demand dip, which Sunak cynically used to cancel it. 2) It refocuses the key argument onto need for *capacity* rather than the *incidental* benefit of high speed (time-saving), which it has been widely argued is an unnecessary luxury. 3) By de-scoping, it forces debate over specs - talk is now about penny-pinching and necessary uplifts, rather than defending an optimized spec, which is easy to attack as excessive. 4) It creates various openings for government to obfuscate costs, by splitting it up and putting things in different 'pots', thus negating criticism over the oft cited headline figure of £100b The overall *political* aim is to shift the frame of the debate from headlines like 'unnecessary' and 'expensive' to things like 'essential' and 'affordable'. The final technical details will no doubt be subject to further negotiation. The document just provides a baseline to restart the discussion.
@NetworkNewsUK
20 сағат бұрын
Very well said, I just fear the politicians will take it at face value and end up delivering the line with its reduced scope.
@enemyofthestatewearein7945
12 сағат бұрын
@@NetworkNewsUK HS2 Ltd haven't yet de-scoped anything they are actually building - they just stopped work on a few bits. I suspect another goal, is to set an incremental approach, so the project is more manageable, both politically and financially. The initial HS2 project essentially used massive scale, just to meet green-book BCRs (i.e. go big to maximize returns). But now it's part built (and much money is already spent) those goalposts have moved.
@NetworkNewsUK
12 сағат бұрын
@@enemyofthestatewearein7945 I was referring to the MNWRL proposal, which is effectively for a de-scoped HS2. An incremental approach is needed but as always the devil will be in the detail!
@Graviton1066
21 сағат бұрын
Such a stupid "solution" to Sunak's insane cancellation.
@antonycole7761
21 сағат бұрын
i like the sound of most of this, but i think we should still use the Europe load gauge and the concert slab rail; looking at whole life cost
@Sam_Kings
21 сағат бұрын
Why are we incapable of building anything for the future?
@matpk
21 сағат бұрын
Build it
@davedave6404
21 сағат бұрын
We pile cock-up on cock-up starting with Beeching. Short term interference from politicians with a time horizon of 5 years to try to please all the conflicting interests or sabotage groups more likely. Our tiny country needs projects of this scale. It's also about the desire of politicians to build monuments rather than efficient future proofed infrastructure. Mainly a view held by many, including me, is that their education is in humanities, law, accountancy, media studies, politics, sex lives of tadpoles in the 16th century etc. Very little understanding of all branches of Engineering, mirrored in the short sighted single issue voting records of the great British public. Grow our own qualified folks and reduce relying on consultants who give the answer they have been paid to give, and give planners legal powers to just get on with the F'ing job.
@ugiswrong
21 сағат бұрын
Talking too fast in the meaty part mate
@NetworkNewsUK
21 сағат бұрын
Noted. I'll try to be conscious of that in future videos!
@seanmoulton4793
21 сағат бұрын
The lack of plan of solving the capacity issue in Crewe is always going to be an issue. A new Platform 13 is needed for Manchester - South Wales services to ensure trains don't have to cross each line. Dual tracking between Crewe and Alsager, and electifying between Crewe and Chester is needed - but Crewe station as a whole needs serving in order to boost connectivity to the regions and not just to cities
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