👍one of the distinguishing features of Taiji combat: true *forward* throws
@themartialway9168
Ай бұрын
Absolutely. Perhaps tai chi's most unique feature is its pushing techniques. I'm not aware of other martial arts that train them regularly.
@thelotusgroup828
2 ай бұрын
This has nothing to do with TaiChi.
@themartialway9168
Ай бұрын
What makes you say? Many of the individuals depicted are experienced and well-regarded teachers of tai chi.
@buicktothemoon
Ай бұрын
Ahh yes the old ‘no true ipman fallacy’: if it’s bad it’s Chinese martial arts, but if it’s good, ‘it has nothing to do with taichi’.
@thesecretlibrary890
4 ай бұрын
What's the difference between Tai Chi and Shuai Jiao?
@seanrodey4179
Ай бұрын
Not necessarily a lot in push hands rules vs shuai Jiao rules. Shuai Jiao emphasizes throws while remaining standing and push hands emphasizes yielding, pushing, and framing.
@Deuhs
5 ай бұрын
I don't see it as better than practicing Olympic wrestling or judo, only that you add that you can manipulate the chi just to say that you are superior, even though the system really is a Greco-Roman wrestling without neck holds.
@themartialway9168
5 ай бұрын
Olympic wrestling and judo have slightly different rulesets and therefore train slightly different skillsets. For instance, tai chi features various "pushing" techniques aimed at creating separation between the practitioner and the attacker. Olympic wrestling and judo do not offer similar techniques, and would indeed penalize them for timidity in competition. Arguably, tai chi's closest martial cousin may in fact be sumo (except without the mawashi to grip).
@jamesSmith-fl5wv
5 ай бұрын
Um alot of that was judo not Tai chi.
@themartialway9168
5 ай бұрын
When trained for combat, tai chi and judo do indeed have certain similarities. That is unsurprising, as there are only so many ways, biomechanically, to throw an adversary to the ground. However, they also have significant differences. Tai chi trains without the gi and teaches may non-throwing techniques not found in judo, including techniques that call for pulling, pressing, pushing, or lifting an opponent with an uprooting drive ("peng"). Conversely, judo trains in the gi, places a greater emphasis on high-impact throws, and (at quality schools) includes newaza techniques. Tai chi does not have any ground-fighting to speak of.
@edouardlorge4059
7 ай бұрын
only tai chi vs tai chi there
@themartialway9168
5 ай бұрын
As noted in the description, some are fellow tai chi practitioners and some are not. I considered revising the video to provide timestamps, but I came to the view that seasoned practitioners will be able to spot the difference.
@tombouie
Жыл бұрын
Thks buts; Much like the best aikido people, the best tai chi people don't get grabbed by their opponents & especially don't wrestle with them to the floor (ex: relax, manage distance, just step out of the way, etc).
@themartialway9168
Жыл бұрын
Against a trained adversary (and certainly against multiple trained adversaries) avoiding being grabbed is not always possible. Moreover, tai chi sometimes requires proactive application. For instance, Yang style tai chi was once taught to the Emperor's bodyguards, individuals who did not have the option to step out of the way. For those bodyguards, tai chi was an important complementary martial art. They could use it to throw opponents to the ground from a standing posture, giving them a chance to use their weapon (usually a jian, or straight sword) to finish the fight. Proof for this comes in the weapons forms still found in many contemporary tai chi lineages.
@jaserror
8 ай бұрын
@tombouie you might want to revisit your aikido classes - since it sounds too much like bullshido where you can't get touched and can perform aikido like in Steven Seagal movies.
@panfilocanale7999
Жыл бұрын
It would be better to call it tai chi wrestling, not fighting. Unfortunately, tai chi does not go beyond standing wrestling. I practiced it in the past and met great masters, from the outside it may seem like normal wrestling, but it's not like that, it has nothing to do with it.
@themartialway9168
Жыл бұрын
You are correct that tai chi is not a "complete" fighting art as it lacks certain necessary components, such as ground grappling and effective striking. I would argue, however, that what you call "tai chi wrestling" has valid martial applications, just as judo has valid martial applications despite not teaching its judoka how to throw a jab or cross.
@lucianoibarra9197
8 ай бұрын
Use logic, ground combat did not exist back then because being on the ground meant going to the other world for bladed weapons. You are either very naive or very idiotic not to see it.
@thesecretlibrary890
4 ай бұрын
Nope you're actually wrong, Chen style Taichi has a LOT of ground work.
@Tasmanaut
Ай бұрын
This channel seems to believe its a kind of wrestling but it's not, it is a philosophical principle that can be the ultimate form of boxing, kicking, wrestling, or conducting your life in a civil manner, with the goal being spiritual enlightenment. If you see Tai Chi as limited, that is because your own perception is limited.
@Tasmanaut
Ай бұрын
it is NOT wrestling, at all.
@EG-cs3wv
Жыл бұрын
Thank you so much, this compilation is great. I want to write a book about fighting principles, logic and traditional martial arts and this is helping a lot. Please, continue this work. I only see one video in your channel and I think more information like this is needed. I am subscribed...
@themartialway9168
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the kind words. I originally compiled this footage to settle a bet with a friend. I never anticipated others would watch it. Based on the positive response, perhaps I will produce other similar videos in the future.
@Zack1440
Жыл бұрын
👍🏽
@martysat2760
Жыл бұрын
1:39 This is Buddha's Warrior Attendant Pounds Mortar.
@silversparrow6656
Жыл бұрын
It's basically the first cousin of Greco. There's nothing new under the sun.
@quentinducos8052
11 ай бұрын
May look like it but it is totally different from Greco. There is a huge ground work involved with Chen style Tai Chi. Every movement you practice in Tai Chi is a lock and is not shown in Tui Shou. Chen Tai Chi also works on strikes, they are called "Fajin", the same Tai Chi practioners do Sanda which is kick boxing with take downs. Tai chi is actually a pretty complete martial art system except for ground combat but again you could use Tai Chi principles doing BJJ.
@bdlkinetics
8 ай бұрын
true.....greco is the highest grappling form in the west and tai chi in the west......and indeed, "nothing new under the sun"
@astonprice-lockhart7261
Жыл бұрын
I don't understand why Taijiquan isn't using leg grabs. They are very much a part of it.
@themartialway9168
Жыл бұрын
Like judo and Greco-Roman wrestling, tai chi focuses on techniques from an upright posture. Historically, that is because tai chi evolved as a complement to weapons fighting. When opponents got into grappling range, tai chi practitioners would hope to throw them to the ground or repel them backwards so that they could reengage. Changing levels to take an opponent down does not fit that plan. Nowadays, however, it is important to know how to initiate and defend attacks to the legs. Tai chi is perhaps best trained as a complement to other marital arts, such as wrestling, that contain such techniques.
@astonprice-lockhart7261
Жыл бұрын
@The Martial Way Thank you so much for taking time to explain that. That explanation does fall in line with Taijiquan wanting to keep an upright structure and good base while staying on their feet in wartime. However I have seen these leg grabs in shaolin, wudang and even "somewhat" modern methods such as sanshou/sanda.
@taoliu3949
Жыл бұрын
@@astonprice-lockhart7261 I mean, even in modern self defense you don't want to go to the ground. You get your opponent to the ground and then strike him while he's down, which fits hand in hand with Taichi.
@HillardEarl
7 ай бұрын
You must have opportunity and a good reason. 👍
@Tasmanaut
Ай бұрын
@@astonprice-lockhart7261 the owner of this channel knows nothing. Tai chi does have leg grabs and takedowns. This channel seems to believe its a kind of wrestling but it's not, it is a philosophical principle that can be the ultimate form of boxing, kicking, wrestling, or conducting your life in a civil manner, with the goal being spiritual enlightenment. If you see Tai Chi as limited, that is because your own perception is limited.
@chinesebob7220
2 жыл бұрын
Tai chi clearly works for standup grappling. But there's more involved in a real fight like footwork, striking, and ground game.
@themartialway9168
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed! Tai chi is not a "complete" martial art. For full self-defense or cage fighting, it must be trained alongside ground grappling and striking techniques.
@taoliu3949
Жыл бұрын
@@themartialway9168 Taichi does have grappling and striking, but it's core/focus is wrestling. Very very few schools teach/practice striking though. Chenjiagou is one of the few who still does it I believe.
@themartialway9168
Жыл бұрын
@@taoliu3949 That depends, in large part, on what you mean when you say tai chi "has" striking and grappling techniques. Certain traditional tai chi manuals undoubtedly contain instructions on how to perform them. I have, however, encountered no modern tai chi school that drills them in a live-resistance setting, nor do I know of any traditional live-resistance training exercises that build the necessary skills to strike effectively. Therefore, I would not expect even the most talented tai chi practitioners to perform well in a boxing competition, whereas those same practitioners may succeed in a wrestling or judo tournament.
@taoliu3949
Жыл бұрын
@@themartialway9168 Boxing is boxing. Taichi is foremost wrestling/grappling at its core with some striking techniques building on top of it. Chen style has two forms, yilu and erlu. Yilu (first way) teaches the fundamentals and is tested through push hands. Erlu (second way) applies a lot of striking, kicking, elbows etc and is usually only taught after Yilu is mastered. There are some schools that does spar Sanshou, but those are extremely rare. I know Chenjiagou schools does full contact sparring, but from the matches I've seen they seem to all be below the face. Dan Doherty definitely did spar in his days, but I'm not sure if it's part of Cheng's curriculum or because he was training for competitions. Kuoshu matches do allow head shots, and I'm sure there are Taichi schools who do take part.
@DarkwarriorJ
Жыл бұрын
@@themartialway9168 In the Tai Chi art itself, there's the sword and spear as well... which rather neatly addresses the enemy on the ground. IDK how well connected Tai Chi jian is to the rest of Tai Chi, but if it's anything like HEMA, the wrestling elements synergize with the armed weapons elements, or should. Enemy on ground, impale!
@eclipsewrecker
2 жыл бұрын
Do you have the link to more footage of Marcelo Garcia vs “taiji?” Some of this evidence is very suspicious (to me), but obviously I’m investigating and not dismissing.
@themartialway9168
2 жыл бұрын
There is more footage out there. For most of the session, Marcelo Garcia handles his opponent with ease - just what you'd expect from one of the greatest BJJ players of all time! But it says something that he would "stoop" to train with a tai chi practitioner at all. He embodies the spirit of open-mindedness that makes martial arts great. If you're interested in investigating more, I recommend seeking out an instructor trained in Chen Village. You'll find that they have more to offer than the commercial tai chi instructors often found in the West.
@eclipsewrecker
2 жыл бұрын
@@themartialway9168 I found it. Thank you for the follow up. Why do you suggest “stoop?” I think grapplers tend to “roll” with anyone.
@themartialway9168
Жыл бұрын
This was less a customary after-class roll and more a live pressure-testing session in front of an attentive audience. Not every great MMA master would make so much time for the practitioner of a traditional Chinese martial art. Like Olympic judo and Greco-Roman wrestling, tai chi struggles to counter well-executed single/double-leg takedowns. Conversely, the "peng" (aka "ward off") technique shown in this sparring footage has great effectiveness against the over/under clinch and is an effective counterattack off of a failed arm drag.
@charlesbetancourt7337
Жыл бұрын
Marcelo Gracie did takedown a very good Tai chi practitioner in that video. But I don't think getting beat by perhaps the best submissions grappler in the world wouldean Tai chi as a martial art is useless. I think that same Tai chi guy beat one of f his top bjj black belt students in the video " Chen Chi Cheng vs. Dan Caugfield Taiwan moving step push hands world cup. It would also be interesting to see him go against the first Tai chi guy featured in this video with the windbreaker jacket, Chen Village combat instructor Chen Wang.
@charlesbetancourt7337
Жыл бұрын
@@themartialway9168 Some Tai chi practitioners have recently countered single and double leg attacks,Ramzi Nabulus,Chen Ziqiang, and SunYang. What Tai chi also has to learn how to counter is if someone charges at them from a running start rather than first having to touch arms like in push hands.
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