It doesn't look too good for the Finns this week. Peace talks are more and more becoming their only way out of this war. The Soviets are looking to gain as much leverage to benefit their position in the talks. Meanwhile, the Finnish try to do the same, and focus their defence on diplomatic key points instead of long term defensive strategies. Note that we have launched our first episode of the War Against Humanity this week, in which we will discuss the warcrimes committed by all sides. The first episode covers the first six months of the war up until March 5 1940, the day on which Joseph Stalin and Beria order the Katyn Massacre. You can find that episode right here: kzitem.info/news/bejne/yJprv5yeh5V0Z2k& *RULES OF CONDUCT* STAY CIVIL AND POLITE we will delete any comments with personal insults, or attacks. AVOID PARTISAN POLITICS AS FAR AS YOU CAN we reserve the right to cut off vitriolic debates. HATE SPEECH IN ANY DIRECTION will lead to a ban. RACISM, XENOPHOBIA, OR SLAMMING OF MINORITIES will lead to an immediate ban. PARTISAN REVISIONISM, ESPECIALLY HOLOCAUST AND HOLODOMOR DENIAL will lead to an immediate ban.
@Aakkosti
5 жыл бұрын
Two days ago? Did you forget to link this to TimeGhost.tv? Us Kickstarters can’t access the Patreon feed.
@mmink9336
5 жыл бұрын
World War Two where’s who did what?
@Pyhantaakka
5 жыл бұрын
12:15. Germany wasn't so great for Finland during Winter War. Among others they blocked railway deliveries from Italy (such as 35 Fiat G50), so they had to be shipped. Basically they just sat on the sidelines and had no role. Western allies, and Sweden, at least did send aid. It's not like Finland was in alliance with any of them. The main culprits for Finnish defeat are Finnish pre-war leaders who did not take defense seriously and spent money on PR projects (like coastal defense ships). Due to their decisions; Mannerheim line was incomplete and the army had no AT-weapons or proper artillery.
@sarasamaletdin4574
5 жыл бұрын
You have not really mentioned Soviets reaction to the French and British offers to help Finland. In my school history books (I am Finnish) it was mentioned it was part of the reason for accepting peace “negotiations” since the Soviets were not aware if these offers would happen or not. Is this the case?
@theonlylauri
5 жыл бұрын
@@Pyhantaakka Finland was poor and the wounds of civil war were still raw. If the government hadn't prioritized economic development and tried to the soften the impact of Great Depression, the working class might not have seen it as fully legitimate. I also doubt Social Democrats would have approved of spending much more on such a White bastion as Army. As for the ships, they weren't useless (if only as deterrence against landing attempts), but fixing some of the Army's chronic deficiencies would have been much better.
@colinkelly5420
5 жыл бұрын
God the Allied war effort at this point is so pathetic and contemptible it makes it hard to watch.
@SuperCompany007
5 жыл бұрын
The French government actually collapsed after their failure to help Finland
@FemtoSecn
5 жыл бұрын
They have like 1% war effort.
@themightyranger6321
5 жыл бұрын
Hard to think only 20 years before they were proud to defend their nation and to never stop until the enemy surrenders, really sad.
@MRKapcer13
5 жыл бұрын
The western allies' inaction is in many ways the secondary cause for the Second World War becoming as big as it has. It's really quite pathetic.
@themightyranger6321
5 жыл бұрын
@@MRKapcer13 it's really just good soldiers being let down by their goverment, they could have crushed the nazis in 1933 if they really wanted to.
@HoH
5 жыл бұрын
Everyone just keeps screwing up... Poor Finns. Their spirit is commendable.
@matiaslappi663
5 жыл бұрын
@Prussian Eagle Continuation War intensifies
@GingaGirl2000
5 жыл бұрын
The revenge that ended with Finland losig more land and more people and entering a third war, this time against the Germans, which lead to Lapland going up in flames. yaaaaaay
@matiaslappi663
5 жыл бұрын
@@GingaGirl2000 True but atleast we took out four commies per one dead Finn.
@theonlylauri
5 жыл бұрын
@@GingaGirl2000 On the other hand, Finland's performance was good enough that after the war Stalin decided to play nice. YYA Treaty was pretty good, overall. 'Finlandization' may be an ugly word, but really, compare that to the fates of other countries that split from Russian Empire when it collapsed, or other German allies for that matter.
@Leopardipzg
5 жыл бұрын
@@GingaGirl2000 Better than losing independence completely. Stalin was full steam planning a "final solution" for Finland after the Winter War!
@jhpv89
5 жыл бұрын
I remember a very chilling quote from a Finnish artillery officer that really describes the desperate situation on the gulf of Viipuri. Along the lines of "Our single battery's target zone was ordered to cover over 1 square kilometer of the gulf. I yelled back, that there's no way we can cover such a wide area alone! They responded 'just bring it on, there are so many of them coming that you will always score a hit!'"
@WorshipinIdols
4 жыл бұрын
Ville san as a former Soviet Citizen and dissident, I want to confirm, approve and agree with your statement. If it means anything to anyone anymore, I am sorry. My country (USSR) started WWII AS SURELY AS Germany.
@TheMoonIsAConspiracyTheory
3 жыл бұрын
My family is from the USSR. The Bolshevik invasion of Finland was a super stupid move. Both sides suffered. Meanwhile the Bolshevik government didn't care about human losses, only about spreading their Bolshevism.
@chozer1
2 жыл бұрын
@@WorshipinIdols what do you think of current russian aggresion? kinda reminds me of the finish struggle
@WorshipinIdols
2 жыл бұрын
@@chozer1 there are definitely many many similarities. Except in this case the west actually showed up to the rescue. The biggest issue today that no one is taking about is the absurd continued Ukrainian corruption inside the country at the highest levels which is obstructing their war effort. Specifically, Ukraine’s insane refusal to move their very extensive and highly developed military industry (most have already been hit by Russian airstrikes or missile strike) which requires the Ukrainians to brush off the rubble and move their factories to Poland to benefit from NATO air-cover. This policy is a continuation off Ukrainian’s equally insane policy of paying for the R&D to develop many excellent pieces of military equipment (I.e. Neptune ASM, Vilkha/-M Heavy Long range MLRS, Grim-2 tactical ballistic missile, BTR-4M Wheeled-ITV etc…) only to cancel funding as it was ready for serial production. Today the Ukrainian military PER SE is doing great. But every over party of the state/government is horribly failed, even betraying their military.
@whoaitstiger
5 жыл бұрын
I guess you could say the Soviets were on Finn ice.
@HaloBro003
5 жыл бұрын
Underrated comment
@samarvora7185
5 жыл бұрын
You, my dear sir, are a genius.
@tammyt3434
4 жыл бұрын
Ba dum cha!
@CDNKakarot2814
4 жыл бұрын
Somebody Please Get This Man A Medal 🏅
@nathanboolin
4 жыл бұрын
Hahah
@gregj4564
5 жыл бұрын
It is said that blue colour on Polish national flag stands for reliable allies... Greetings from Poland to Finland.
@vertie2090
5 жыл бұрын
Poland had the toughest luck of all during the WW2
@tyttiMK
5 жыл бұрын
What does Sweden have that Finland doesn't? Nice neighbours...
@FrazzP
5 жыл бұрын
Getting abandoned by the western powers (which Churchill HEAVILY opposed) was a hard pill to swallow for many people, so aligning with Germany was just seen as Realpolitik and a way out from suffering the fate of the Baltic states. It didn't help that many in Finland had strong pro-German sympathies because of old ties, like when they aided us in our Civil War against the Bolsheviks. Mannerheim though was a known Anglophile.
@kymenlaaksolainen4755
5 жыл бұрын
Mannerheim also was a francophile. Hell, Mannerheim had left the Country shortly after the Civil War was won due to the fact the Senate said no to his Plans for making the Army and instead took the German one. And didnt like the fact how his country was aligning so much with Germany anyway. Afterall as pointed out he was an Anglo and a Francophile.
@AHappyCub
5 жыл бұрын
@@neues3691 some people shit talk the Finnish for that ?!!!! How stupid are they ?!!
@Southpaw535
5 жыл бұрын
@@AHappyCub Context is normally unknown. This is a completely new part of history for me to learn about, and I'd assume it would be for most people who haven't personally tried to learn more about the war. So for most people, they simply see that Finland was allied with Germany, and assumptions are made from there. It's not malicious, just a lack of information.
@timothyhouse1622
5 жыл бұрын
@@neues3691 the Allies "allied" with the USSR because they were both fighting the Germans. It was an alliance of convenience. It isn't like many of these poor little small countries are democracies. They were all totalitarian or authoritarian. Only the MAJOR powers were democratic.
@SavolaxMitsu
5 жыл бұрын
@@timothyhouse1622 Finland was democratic in 1939.
@villageintheshire
4 жыл бұрын
I thought I knew World War 2. What I've learnt about the Finns is astonishing ... I'm in awe of their courage
@RicardoD957
5 жыл бұрын
Guy on the phone: how much did he ask for the 67 Mustang? Indy: 50,000 Guy on the phone: seriously? Indy: well that's what he said. Guy on the phone: I'll think about it. Indy: aright.
@themightyranger6321
5 жыл бұрын
Please keep this comments coming for future episodes!
@themightyranger6321
5 жыл бұрын
@@belka8618 imagine making these comments for the next 6 years lol
@RicardoD957
5 жыл бұрын
Oh trust me lads, they'll keep coming!
@lennox285679
5 жыл бұрын
RicardoD957 you’re the best.
@vulkanofnocturne
5 жыл бұрын
Indy: 50,000 Guye: he cannot eat that many pies Indy: wel dats wut 'e sed Guye: the fat bastard Indy: ai'ght (dawg)
@matiaslappi663
5 жыл бұрын
12:15 Love that foreshadowing of Continuation War. I believe that by watching this series people will understand far better, why we Finns decided to ally with Germany.
@maxohrzen3106
5 жыл бұрын
Matias Lappi Bruh don’t spoil
@derekenaiche5885
5 жыл бұрын
Comrade Stalin Will make sure things come in place in Continuation war, there's still 4 years to come for that tho.
@matiaslappi663
5 жыл бұрын
@Prussian Eagle Cooperation is what allys do. I know that we didn't sign the tripartite pact but at the time pretty much everyone else considered us to be allyed with Germany.
@Oxtocoatl13
5 жыл бұрын
@Prussian Eagle Finns love to make that distinction because the idea of joining forces with the nazis is, with hindsight, kind of embarrassing. In reality, though Finns fought with the nazis, german troops were stationed in Finland for years and Finnish Jews were handed over to the Germans to be killed. What people choose to call it is irrelevant at that point.
@heikkisallinen9012
5 жыл бұрын
@@Oxtocoatl13 Finnish jews were never handed over to the Germans. Only Red army POW jews were, in exchange of Red Army Finnic people POWs from German camps ( Not a very good trade though ) . Finnish jews fought on the front together with their christian and atheist compatriots and sometimes even the German troops. And when it came to military co-operation with Germany againts the Soviets, Finland hardly had other viable options.
5 жыл бұрын
A salute to the finns; While you may have lost the war, you have won the hearts of many. Even in defeat, you are remembered for your world class fighting spirit which humbled one of the mightiest military forces on the planet. Kippis!
@vatanenj
4 жыл бұрын
Finns did not lose the war..We won the peace..Helsinki was the only capital on the "other side" that was not occupied, Stalin said after the war ... If the French would have shown the same fighting spirit, the map of Europe would have been quite different
@kallecederstrom501
5 жыл бұрын
Hard times make a strange bedfellows, you take what you can from wherever you can.
@mollygrubber
5 жыл бұрын
"The one major country that has not treated the Finns abysmally is... Nazi Germany" (long, long pause while staring into the camera) LOL that caught me off guard. Love this series, you folks are awesome.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the support!
@oslonorway547
5 жыл бұрын
But the _Molotov cocktail_ will forever change the nature of future revolutionary protests.
@LukeBunyip
5 жыл бұрын
And anarchist cocktail parties...
@Crazybawrks
5 жыл бұрын
"Protests"
@SonsOfLorgar
5 жыл бұрын
Though none of the later molotov throwers followed the far more user friendly original recipie/design.
@LuizAlexPhoenix
5 жыл бұрын
@@Crazybawrks Anything is a protest, if you want it to be. Hell, by Clausewitz words, war is merely the continuation of politics. Thus, war can be seen as a stern protest to something.
@VisualdelightPro
3 жыл бұрын
Brandflasche cocktail
@Bagster321
5 жыл бұрын
Indy's phone call: Other end: "How many people used to live here?" Indy: "50 000." Other end: "Now it's a ghost town?" Indy: "Well that's what he said."
@milankolarski8876
5 жыл бұрын
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare.
@Bagster321
5 жыл бұрын
Milan Kolarski Hell yeah man.
@jtinkerton2547
4 жыл бұрын
This was the comment I was looking for :D
@victorbruant389
5 жыл бұрын
Yes, Lord Stalin. I've reached the main power generators. The shield will be down in moments. You may start your landing.
@piiparinen3456
5 жыл бұрын
But they haven't reached the ski factory
@averageconsumer0
5 жыл бұрын
Target in range Maximum firepower!
@GarrusN7
5 жыл бұрын
Well done.
@m1994a3jagnew
5 жыл бұрын
Finland: we cool? USSR: YOU ARE PART OF THE THIRD REICH AND A TRAITOR! Takethemaway!
@heikkisallinen9012
5 жыл бұрын
Hold your Star Wars : New Hope opening scene quotes till the Finnish airliner Kaleva will be shot down by Soviet bombers on a scheduled flight from Tallinn later this year in order to retrieve it's diplomatic post with a submarine ;) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleva_(airplane)
@abrahamtorres4474
2 жыл бұрын
I’m binging this series start to finish nonstop now.
@WorldWarTwo
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you Abraham! Very glad you found our channel.
@TheMosinCrate
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for these videos. The last line of this episode struck home.. Its not so much the Finnish were excited to be allies with Germany, its that nobody else gave them an alternative to it. Keep up the great work.
@gogogomes7025
5 жыл бұрын
The allied incompetence in the early stages of war, it's mind numbing.
@Jack-vp9kl
5 жыл бұрын
GOGOgomes Easy enough to say in hindsight.
@Paciat
5 жыл бұрын
Not Incompetence. Weakness.
@JoeSmith-sl9bq
5 жыл бұрын
That’s the thing about democracies. Most people don’t want a war, no matter how justified, and will only respond to direct attack. I’m sure many in Paris and London realized Germany should had been invaded long before, or the importance of defending Poland and Czechoslovakia. But the average English or French man will only see Germans fighting poor Eastern Europeans, and know Poles as alien migrants taking jobs and living in their slums. Little incentive to die to save them.
@Paciat
5 жыл бұрын
@@JoeSmith-sl9bq "...Little incentive to die to save them." and their selves. French knew that they could take ground in 1939 so that the next war wont be on their ground. The longer they waited the bloodier the war would become. They also lost 2/3rds of their heavy industry in WWI. But there were no plans at all for any offensive into the Reich industrial center. You dont need to take Berlin to win with Germany. Get the Rhine and the German economy collapses. And in 1940 they proved they didnt want to fight at all, even when defending their own land. Look at the number and scale of French counter offensives. Unlike Poland they had 9 months to mobilize and were far more motorized.
@Janvt01
4 жыл бұрын
I guess that you can say “wars” instead. Take a look at the ww1 :/
@jvc8949
5 жыл бұрын
Beginning of March 1940 was very hard for my grandmother's relatives. Grandmother's uncle from her mothers side died 1.3.1940 in Taipale. From her father's side 4 of her uncles were fighting in Vuosalmi in Karelian Isthmus. One of the uncles died 6.3.1940 and another died 9.3.1940. One of them was also injured 8.3.1940. One year later in summer 1941, the mother of the fallen brothers notices that soldiers are once again gathering in center of the town. She realizes that another war is about to start. Having already lost two of her sons in the war she cannot handle the thought of losing rest of them. She dies to heart attack 17.6.1941. Continuation war starts week later. BTW my grandmother's father was only one of the brothers who wasn't in Vuosalmi in 1940. He suffered from bad asthma and he was never send to front line. He was guarding air fields through winter war. He often said that he participated in three wars without firing a single shot. (Finnish civil war, Winter war and Continuation war)
@dend1
5 жыл бұрын
Guy on Phone: How many sweet rolls did he say they stole? Indy: 50,000 Guy on Phone: You can't be serious Indy: well that's what he said Guy on Phone: alright we'll skyrim later Indy: aight
@cannonfodder4376
5 жыл бұрын
Dear lord the Allied war effort is pitiful and their impotence and cynical plans to exploit Finland's plight is infuriating. Makes this often difficult to watch. Another fine episode though Indy and team.
@VisualdelightPro
3 жыл бұрын
britain was the most hypocritical at start of Ww2 and Winter War
@hidof9598
2 жыл бұрын
@@VisualdelightPro , the hypocrisy continued as they invaded Iran with the help of the Soviets
@rtmclean484
Жыл бұрын
Britain and France were never good people historically, i mean not long before this they were colonizing africa and trading slaves, treating another race as "lesser". So their inaction isn't all that surprising, as long as Hitler wasn't looking trouble with them they were happy to let slavs die.
@FlippyWarbear
5 жыл бұрын
That foreboding tone about Germany and Finland gave me goosebumps. "...ja varjele noita Suomen herroja, etteivät toista kertaa löisi päätään Karjalan mäntyyn."
@tylsimys67
4 жыл бұрын
Still, give us a choice Clausewitz.
@briceoka5623
Жыл бұрын
Man, Rewatching these old episodes hit different, dreading the day this series will end
@tomgjgj
5 жыл бұрын
Honestly... I'm very surprised the Finns lasted this long against Russia. Just goes to show what pure motivation and courage can do against overwhelming odds.
@Feffdc
5 жыл бұрын
Nahhh...it was mainly terrain and a clever use of it
@bandwagon22
5 жыл бұрын
Especially when Red Army was using almost 900,000 soldiers, 3,000 tanks and 2,500 aircraft. Finns had likely just 20 tanks and 80 serviceable aircraft. One Soviet study was suggesting that over 45% of Soviet casualties was caused by bullets - highest percentage in any battle of Red Army during WW2. This also underlined that Finns were lacking artillery. A year later Finns had 3 times more guns.
@tomgjgj
5 жыл бұрын
@@Feffdc Yeah, I agree. But if you don't have the bravery to hold that terrain in the face of overwhelming enemy attacks, it's useless. Besides, I'm convinced that the average Red Army soldier didn't care one bit about Finland, whereas the Finns were defending their homes and way of life.
@harmseberhardharmseberhard9908
4 жыл бұрын
Tom J: Honestly, I think you're wrong. Pure motivation? I dont know, whether Soviet soldiers had much motivation to conquer Finland. But: they simply had to. They for sure wanted to survive this war. And they feared the communist commissaries more, than their Finnish opponents. So they stormed bravely into Finnish machinegun fire and died. And bravery : the soviet soldiers died by their thousands, week by week, and many more than on the Finnish side. So: no it wasn't lack of motivation and bravery, it was simply lack of skill and initiative of the officers on the soviet side, due to the latest losses of military leaders in the Stalinist Great Purge of 1936-1938.
@tomgjgj
4 жыл бұрын
@@harmseberhardharmseberhard9908 Nah, I meant the Finns had motivation, they were defending their homes.
@ferrari43able
5 жыл бұрын
12:14 . Excellent foreshadowing Indy
@paolopetrozzi2213
3 жыл бұрын
Hi Indy. I just LOVE your attention to the correct pronunciation of Finns and Germans names. Thanks
@mitanni0
5 жыл бұрын
Hard to say at this point who are the "good guys"...
@kapitainnemoder5
5 жыл бұрын
Spoiler alert: there are no good guys. This is modern war.
@mitanni0
5 жыл бұрын
@@kapitainnemoder5 Good point. Though: "Modern war" sounds a bit too familiar; we might need a new terminology 4 this new "thing". Any suggestions?
@FrazzP
5 жыл бұрын
@@mitanni0 I like the term "Total war".
@mitanni0
5 жыл бұрын
@@FrazzP Interesting proposal. Could be a bit confusing, though, because that term was "introduced" in an infamous Goebbels speech in early 1943.
@Yezu666
5 жыл бұрын
If anyone could be part of the good guys, are those currently, or soon to be trampled over: Netherlands, Denmark, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Belgium etc. The rest are either calculating arseholes, or genocidal evil empires.
@notroll1279
5 жыл бұрын
You are doing great work here - dramatically presentend and well researched. And you quote your sources occasionally so anyone interested in diving deeper can get the books. On the Winter War both Engle/Paananen and Trotter are very good - I found the Trotter the more gripping read though.
@stevenwills4660
5 жыл бұрын
on april fools day can indy ask the phone "so what are you wearing..... oh hi didnt see you there welcome to world war to".
@magnuspeacock5857
5 жыл бұрын
+
@ieuanhunt552
5 жыл бұрын
Is it really that hard to learn the difference between To, Too and Two? I know it isn't because the rest of your sentence is grammatically sound. So why that basic mistake?
@finnishpagan2911
4 жыл бұрын
@@ieuanhunt552 How many languages do you speak?
@ieuanhunt552
4 жыл бұрын
@@finnishpagan2911 Three. English, Welsh and Breton. And a little bit of French.
@nddavi58
4 жыл бұрын
the “allies” were like a fake friend that promises to come through for you and then disappears
@viktoly2499
4 жыл бұрын
Yes, and it hasn't stopped since. Just remember what happened in Syria just a few years ago. The US promised Syrian rebels their support and aid so the rebels lifted their middle finger at Assad and went on to an all out assault. Then just a short while after the US said "Err guys.. about that help and thingies. That's not gonna happen, sorry. K,thanks,bye!
@adamscott7354
3 жыл бұрын
They still delivered in the end as best they could, the western allies anyway
@wolfmule9914
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this one Indey. Finnland was totally ignored Its battles its strugles when I learnt history in school. You brought it alive for me. showing it against the goings on at the time in the rest of the world shows how complicated it all was.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
You're welcome!
@ABadRash
5 жыл бұрын
I love the foreshadowing in the phone conversations. Good touch!
@merdiolu
5 жыл бұрын
You have to look from British and French public and political point of view and perspective. This was an unpopular war for them. Very few people who understood the danger Nazi Germany really posed , was trying to do something for Poland and Czechslovakia. Heavy casaulties ,sacrifices , stress and social/political sweeps The Great war brought 20+ years ago plus economic crash of Great Depression were everyone's mind. A lot of of people were (understandably) did not wish to go same nightmare all over the again and they were willing solve everything if not by peace then with minimum bloodshed at least by their side and no aggression even if that meant leaving initiative to a highly aggressive Nazi Germany and even giving them what they want eventually. In 1934 (I think) Oxford students declared "This body would not die for King , God and Country" and during Munich Crisis British PM Chamberlain declared publicly "How strange how horrible to go to war for a country and people we do not know about thousands of miles away" ( that meant Serbia 1914 as well as Czechslovakia in 1938) during 1940 same mindset still was dominant in Britain and French public and political establishment. Daladier was trying to hold both Far Left and Far Right in France which declared "better Hitler than Blum" (French Popular Front PM in 1936 and a Jew) and couldn't mobilise public mind and perception for a Total War. Only shock of German invasion and occupation would do that.
@alphonserobichu8350
5 жыл бұрын
What you say is right. You need to add as well that French politics relied a lot on deceiption at that time because French armed forces weren't ready. In 1936, when the 3rd Reich sent soldiers to the Rhineland, the French ambassador in Poland asked the government if we should try to pressure Germany. Our chief or Air Force answered the first one saying that if we declared war upon Germany, we would lose in a few weeks. French (and British) armies were as ready for a war as Italy was, so everything was bluff. Trying not to look weak not to be invaded, and not being too agressive because we had no possibilities to win the war.
@roflc0re
5 жыл бұрын
This is the week my great grandfather lost his last two friends from his village due to Russian Artillery and he himself got away with a shrapnel in his back, he didn't fight anymore in the winter war. He was so lucky but he never came over the deaths of his Friends :(
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
And so close to the peace treaty..
@roflc0re
5 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo yee, it was also one of many things that made him so sad. Just one week left.. :(
@ollikoskinen1
5 жыл бұрын
Soviet Union in 1940: We have defeated you in battle, please stay neutral. Finland in 1941: Hold my Koskenkorva.
@golden_smaug
5 жыл бұрын
Finland's bad luck to have a bad tempered neighbour
@Paciat
5 жыл бұрын
Even worst when you have two of them, and they are shaking hands. In Poland there was a political saying. Its good when your neighbors argue, its bad when they are friends. Germans and Soviets acted like friends since 1917.
@troyjohnson7154
5 жыл бұрын
Jesus H Christ... man this is good stuff. This scratches so many itches its insane, I love this channel!
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Haha, thanks!
@raleighnaas935
Жыл бұрын
What's the H stand for?
@MannnisEi
5 жыл бұрын
2 of my great uncles also died this week at Impilahti, on the northern side of the Ladoga.
@maikoljason1389
5 жыл бұрын
I love this channel with all my heart
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
@oreroundpvp896
5 жыл бұрын
You can tell how poorly prepared the British Army specifically was for this war, the Navy and RAF had received disproportionate amounts of funding compared to the Army which does make sense. However now the Army is on the continent and in too small a number to affect much, and doesn't have to resources to commit to Norway and Finland. Britain had only just started re-armament in 1938 and so needed more time realistically to prove as useful as it was in the Great War.
@carpetclimber4027
5 жыл бұрын
The only two countries prepared for war were the initial aggressors; Germany and Japan. You could say the Soviet Union, but not really. They attacked anyway.
@oreroundpvp896
5 жыл бұрын
@@carpetclimber4027 Very true...
@commanderkampfsuppe7840
5 жыл бұрын
Well it does make sense because the first line of defense for Britain was the royal navy
@herrakaarme
5 жыл бұрын
@@carpetclimber4027 The Soviets thought they were ready. The had massive amounts of the most modern war machines available at that time. Their only weakness was how the military was crippled by poor leadership and political play. That being said, the Soviet Union was also an initial aggressor. Surely you can't have missed that detail in these videos.
@oreroundpvp896
5 жыл бұрын
@@commanderkampfsuppe7840 Yeah it does make sense and in the end it paid off, Britain was saved by the Royal Navy as it had been for hundreds of years. The well funded RAF also saved our ass. It bought Britain time to continue building up its army especially after Dunkirk.
@nikosfilipu886
2 жыл бұрын
absolutely brilliant ...the whole series is brilliant in concept and execution of production...
@WorldWarTwo
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks @Nikos Filipu, glad to have you aboard!
@mikiroony
5 жыл бұрын
Fantastic work as usual, guys. I'm happy to back up this project.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks! We're very grateful for your support!!
@RelaxingPlatypus39
3 ай бұрын
I think this video has you wearing my favorite tie so far
@indianajones4321
5 жыл бұрын
We’re in the Endgame now
@A_annoying_rodent
5 жыл бұрын
No, now it begins.
@JohnJohn-pe5kr
5 жыл бұрын
This is going to be a long war.
@nicholasrusson8978
5 жыл бұрын
@@JohnJohn-pe5kr What? No, clearly Indiana is right ... we're in the dying stages of this war now. Finland will be forced to agree to Soviet terms, which will totally satisfy the Soviets for at least a generation (given all their losses). Chamberlain and Daladier are certain that Herr Hitler won't actually invade Belgium or France, so the Phoney War will continue for a bit until peace terms can be negotiated. Perhaps they can get that nice Mr. Mussolini to be the go-between?
@Codey323
5 жыл бұрын
Nicholas Russon considering how pre-Ethiopia Mussolini was constantly trying to maintain the peace in Europe, it actually makes perfect sense.
@nicholasrusson8978
5 жыл бұрын
@@Codey323 I can see it now, Neville Chamberlain, triumphantly holding up the peace treaty at the airfield ... wait ... didn't we already see that?
@naitnait00
5 жыл бұрын
Pretty sure the Hearts of Iron Ai would have done better than the Allies at this point
@bandwagon22
5 жыл бұрын
Hitler was very worried about Allied plans to start operation targeting Swedish Kiruna iron ore. In mid Feb 1940 he gave task to General Falkenhorst. What here is quite interesting is that Hitler wanted a man who was "expert of Finland". This is what Mannerheim wanted more. He wisely estimated that Stalin would be more worried if Allied put their noses to Scandinavia. Molotov asked anxiously Turkish Ambassador "what did he mean when saying that we are living in era where everybody is hiding his aims". There was bloody poker going on.
@NikoLavikainen
5 жыл бұрын
I like how Indy is dropping a hint and laying the foundation there to what lead to the Finns to co-operate with the Germans later in the war.
@billslocum9819
5 жыл бұрын
A book I'm reading, "Winchell" by Bob Thomas, about Walter Winchell the New York newspaper columnist, has this: "One night she (Winchell's wife June) was in a newsreel theater with Walter when shots of the Russian-Finnish war flashed on the screen. Another patron, presumably a Communist, applauded at scenes of destruction of a village in Poland. June began beating the man over the head with her purse. Others joined in the assault until ushers hustled the victim out of the theater. "'June, darling,' Walter exclaimed, "you'll have to be more careful! Do you want to get us written up in the newspapers?'"
@pnutz_2
5 жыл бұрын
3:11 Finns find out that like the jungle, General Winter is neutral
@bbcmotd
5 жыл бұрын
That winter it was General Vinterov
@romaliop
5 жыл бұрын
@@bbcmotd The Soviets had suffered much more from it, though.
@bandwagon22
5 жыл бұрын
Harsh winter making ice thick actually helped much more Red Army making crossing lakes and rivers possible using even heaviest tanks. What Finns would have needed after January was mild weather and more and more snow. Harsh winter made sky also clear giving options for VVS and other Soviet air force units. So actually mother nature after Jan was favoring Red Army not the Finns.
@bandwagon22
5 жыл бұрын
@@romaliop ... you are totally wrong. Harsh winter helped more Red Army than Finns. Biggest gainers were tank units and Soviet air forces.
@romaliop
5 жыл бұрын
@@bandwagon22 You don't need a harsh winter for the lakes and rivers to have thick enough ice, though. A regular winter with temperatures of negative 10-20 would have been more than enough. It might have favored the Soviets if they were better prepared for it from the start. The late spring only became a factor because the first offensive had already failed.
@derekenaiche5885
5 жыл бұрын
And so Winter War reaches it's dawn.
@richardb2580
5 жыл бұрын
I have to say (or rather, I want to say) that I am really enjoying all your videos. Nicely presented - not 'over-hyped', factually accurate, or so it seems. Enough but not too much drama added to the commentaries. Well done Indie ... and Spartacus who is now also presenting.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much!
@AlecBenson-o9p
8 ай бұрын
Outstanding. I have watched this a half-dozen times over the years. Your ending comment, Indy, highlights the reason for Finland's Continuation War with Germany against the USSR, and also the lack of enthusiasm Finland had for treaties and economic unions in the 1950s and on. Given how badly France, Britain and Sweden had treated them, who can blame them?
@michaelmac3
5 жыл бұрын
Love the videos as always.
@DimensionsofChange
5 жыл бұрын
Hearing the word Viipuri really cheered me up; which is good after all the war crimes, genocide, etc....
@ozkul_arda200
5 жыл бұрын
12:20 Continuation war confirmed??
@dreplays3280
5 жыл бұрын
Lord Lahmacun don’t spoil the post credits scene
@Arbiter099
5 жыл бұрын
I had no idea the Allies were still sitting completely on their hands and sending out planes to drop leaflets while officially at war for so long by now. Imagine if US Doolittle Raid just gave the Japanese a taste of literal harsh language, ah, but all things in good time. This will be a very busy year for this series. The Timeghost Army marches on!
@pnutz_2
5 жыл бұрын
it keeps the allies largely out of the war on humanity video for now
@MandalorV7
5 жыл бұрын
The horrors of the Great War were still fresh in people's minds. The Allies were dragging their feet not to get into another conflict like that again. We in hindsight see how futile that was.
@ignacejespers8201
5 жыл бұрын
@CommandoDudeIf France had shown some backbone when handling Germany before the war, then they would have been on the Dyle in a few hours.
@stevek8829
4 жыл бұрын
@@ignacejespers8201 at least give them credit for actually declaring war on Germany, the only country bordering Germany to dare. The French certainly remembered WWI, only 21 years since, and didn't do so lightly. In the US we've forgotten WWI and renamed Armistice Day, Europe has not.
@thegloriouspyrocheems2277
5 жыл бұрын
Another amazing episode ❤
@812gingerable
5 жыл бұрын
7:10 man on the right is an absolute unit
@soldierorsomething
5 жыл бұрын
Like a walking fridge!
@jaccexx7565
5 жыл бұрын
Excellent series. Keep up the good work.
@AkiraHericho
5 жыл бұрын
Been making pancakes as its my birthday today, been listening to your work and its been a great way to get up in the morning. Keep up the good work guys
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Belated happy birthday!
@AkiraHericho
5 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo Thank you! And hope you guys have a great day!
@philsteakerson1797
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you! Great work as always. I love this series. You guys are awesome and clearly make this with a lot of passion.
@mrb3nz
5 жыл бұрын
People say Hitler was some kind of military genius but I think he just had incredible strokes of luck that eventually just ran out
@Schischio0
5 жыл бұрын
macorl Hitler a genius? NEVER! He always screwed up (Stalingrad, winter war 1941, Dunkirk, etc.)
@gabriellunde2609
5 жыл бұрын
Basically: He listened to his generals in the beginning and not in the end of the war.
@Marvin-fw2bn
5 жыл бұрын
@@gabriellunde2609 I wouldn't go as far as that. Most of that comes from the after war memoirs and history telling of generals that were left of the hook. Also Stalin was arguably much worse militarily which sometimes made it easier for the germans.
@Marvin-fw2bn
5 жыл бұрын
@@Schischio0 Thing is Hitler didn't command individual division from the front line. He had his generals for that. And sometimes his grand strategy plan was better than those of the generals. For example right from the start he wanted to prioritize the resource rich areas of the Ukraine and the Caucasus first, when invading the USSR in contrast to his generals who where mostly obsessed with capturing Moscow as if that was easy and would end the war. But obviously Hitler was still a mad and brutal dictator who didn't do much good for europe.
@Rahel_Rashid
5 жыл бұрын
I have seen (on reddit) people from US Army Academy saying that even the campaign for France through the Ardennes wasn't devoid of luck either. Apart from all of this, I think it's known (I hope I'm not wrong) that Germany had only a week-long supply of munitions left before France fell.
@WandererRTF
5 жыл бұрын
Few pointers.... Nazi Germany did not treat Finland well either. It actually fairly closely followed the agreements it had made with the USSR. This meant observing strict neutrality rules (to the extremes) towards Finland forbidding foreign volunteers from travelling to Finland as well as interning shipments headed for Finland. For example the Fiat G.50 fighters Italy donated could not be ferried through Germany and had to go the long way around. Of course by this time the sea ice would have prevented most of the shipments from reaching Finland but nonetheless it severely limited the supply routes available to Finland. When the relations between Finland and Germany thawed following the Winter War those shipments were a real bonanza for the Finns. Another example of how the Germans behaved at the time was the German suggestion to the USSR that the German supply ships on the Baltic Sea might be used for supplying (food, fuel) the Soviet submarines attacking against the Finnish freighters during the Soviet blockade of the Finnish coast. ---------------------- Soviets were also at the time attacking over sea ice towards Finnish coast. First attempt actually had started already on 25 February but the real fighting over the sea ice started on 4 March and continued until the end of the war - main fighting took place on 4-7 March. Soviets tried to attack towards north from Hogland and also north from Lavansaari (Moshchny Island) via both Sommers and Narvi. Given that this meant troops had to advance over flat sea ice (so no digging foxholes there) against rocky islands Finns had fortified and had plenty of coastal artillery in support it is one of the most dreadful battlefields one might imagine. As a somewhat comical side note (since it didn't achieve much) in the annals of history one shouldn't forget the Finnish rocket sled attack on the Soviet freighter Kazakhstan stuck on ice off the island of Someri on 10 March. Idea had been to use kind of like over-the-ice rocket torpedoes to blow up the ship but it didn't really work. Take couple of skis, stuck a rocket engine on one end and strap essentially a small contact sensitive naval mine on the other, what could possible go wrong... It actually might have worked over flat sea ice but on uneven packed ice... Well... Not so much. Now the rocket sleds just bounced every where, couple even reporting flying into the air before exploding.
@troy9477
5 жыл бұрын
So THAT'S where the cartoonists got there ideas for Wile E. Coyote's various rocket contraptions 😀
@WandererRTF
5 жыл бұрын
@@troy9477 It is even better fit than what some might imagine. Those rockets the Finns used had similar slow burning fuses as the ones commonly used in fireworks! Descriptions from the men pretty much tell a story where they lit the fuses with matches and waited for the show.
@jamesmarkey5946
2 жыл бұрын
As an Anglo person thank you for the Finnish people for helping me understand this
@TheRagingStorm98
5 жыл бұрын
Watching all the ads on this show you guys deserve the support another great episode
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for enduring them! It's not often that KZitem allows us to add ads
@TheVleckChannel
5 жыл бұрын
I imagine that by the end of the series, Indy will have progressed to having a full two hour conversation on the phone, discussing matters of great import.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Would you be interested in a compilation?
@TheVleckChannel
5 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo I think the real question is, who would not.
@frankwhite3406
5 жыл бұрын
Great episode keep up the good work!
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@Lukegriz77
5 жыл бұрын
Really looking forward to the compilation video of everything Indie says on the phone at the end of this series
@menitobussolini659
5 жыл бұрын
RIP Finland you were good son,real good,maybe even the best!
@menitobussolini659
5 жыл бұрын
They did the best they could
@A_annoying_rodent
5 жыл бұрын
@@menitobussolini659 you think the finns are done? *laughs in continuation war*
@ozkul_arda200
5 жыл бұрын
@@A_annoying_rodent *laughs in Petsamo*
@zakarycampbell105
4 жыл бұрын
The Finns never left
@Autechltd
5 жыл бұрын
Well, this looks like its going to be a short war. See you next time in the next series!
@criticalmass3993
5 жыл бұрын
Cool and sad thing is that these videos has more information than i ever got out from history classes in school, if i knew right people i would suggest this channel for history teachers so they could show this once a week in school for their students. I know i would have been WAY more interested in history as a kid if we could see stuff like this in school, now that i can do independent studying/research i became history "junkie" to the point i just want to know more and more.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Yeah, that would be cool. Though 10 minutes is quite long for a history teacher to spend on watching us each week (considering that it only covers WWII, and many kids don't even attend high school for 6 years)
@blackore64
5 жыл бұрын
However, what I think should have been mentioned is, that Nazi Germany was unwilling to sell military equipment to Finland, did not allow italian military aid to go through its borders.
@Oxtocoatl13
5 жыл бұрын
Germany couldn't. They were still co-operating with the soviets militarily and helping the enemies of their friends would have been pretty bad manners. Finland and Germany started to grow closer only after the winter war, when it was no longer technically against any treaty for the Germans to help rearm the Finns
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
We've mentioned this multiple times already in the context of the German-Soviet agreements.
@FulmenTheFinn
5 жыл бұрын
8000 Swedes and 700 Norwegians did not take up the defence of the Salla sector, instead that is the total number of volunteers of those nationalities that arrived in Finland. Save for a handful of individuals, only two battalions worth of Swedish volunteers actually got to the front lines, and that was during the very last two weeks or so of the Winter War. As they were inexperienced they were assigned to quiet sectors where Russia was no longer particularly pushing, freeing up experienced Finnish units to be moved elsewhere.
@Oxtocoatl13
5 жыл бұрын
The Finns encountered a grave dilemma with the volunteers. On the one hand they desperately needed men, on the other if the foreign volunteers began to die in throves, that would discourage any more from arriving. Christopher Lee is probably the most famous person to have volunteered in Finland but he didn't see any action either.
@Oxtocoatl13
5 жыл бұрын
@@dkfdhdsj6261 that's the point, they were kept from the hardest action so their deaths wouldn't stop the flow of volunteers
@dardell2001
5 жыл бұрын
Hey Indy love your channels. How long could the Finns have held out if the US had sent supplies to them early on?
@ninaakari5181
5 жыл бұрын
That is a good question! Problem is that probaply Sweden wouldn't have allowed US aid to come through its area
@thelastjohnwayne
4 жыл бұрын
Certain Channels on KZitem have become the true new History Channel.
@jonbaxter2254
5 жыл бұрын
Been waiting for this episode...
@KaffantoDezso
5 жыл бұрын
Do not forget that Hungary sent military help to the fins!
@trumpjongun8831
5 жыл бұрын
Under 350 men... That's basically nothing. Even 8000 swedes isn't much.
@KaffantoDezso
5 жыл бұрын
@@trumpjongun8831 They wanted to send 25.000 soldiers first but then only 5000. Only about 300 arroved before the end of the war but it wasn't their fault. Also a hungarian scientist who just won the nobel prize sold it to donate the money to the fins.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
The Hungarians didn't want to send 25,000. In fact, 25,000 signed up, but only a small number was approved and selected to actually go. It was hard to sign up because most men had to serve in the Hungarian army instead. They arrived late because they had to take a detour through Italy, France, the United Kingdom and Scandinavia. It took them three weeks. And then when they had almost finished their winter war training (skiing and such), it was too late.
@KaffantoDezso
5 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo Thank you for the answer. :) But at least the story with the Nobel prize was cool.
@KaffantoDezso
5 жыл бұрын
@@WorldWarTwo Oh and also could you mention that Hungary was pretty good guy with poles? Like polish school and stuffs like that because Hungary would make pretty ugly things later so i do not want the overall picture to be so dark...
@JasonSputnik
5 жыл бұрын
To think that if the Allied were serious and ended up helping the Finns, Stalin and Hitler could have fought on the same side... geez...
@stoogemoedude
5 жыл бұрын
That foreshadowing at the end
@TheAngelOfDeath01
5 жыл бұрын
Another week passed and still no help to the struggling fins from neither the french nor the british... It is more than difficult to (if you close your eyes) imagine (from a view-point of modern times, where we've seen the US, UK, France and others frequently take military action) that these nations, these gigantic global military super powers, are in fact The British and French Empires, and not some small tobacco producing countries, somewhere deep within the amazons! True, also of the contrasts between Britain and France of 1914 versus 1939, is a startling example of what happens when nations (respectively) is ruled by such political complacency and lack of political will, lack of statesmanship, to stand by their foreign policies that it grows into such a sickness that it in turn actually becomes a matter of the survival of whole nations (France and Britain). In point-of-fact, there would've been nothing lost by France and Britain had they themselves taken steps to invade Germany while the German army was busy fighting in Poland, rather than sitting idly by waiting for Germany to take the initiative against French and British forces. Such a strategy, if one can call it that, never really proves to be fruitful. From a military perspective, there is nothing more corrupting to a soldiers (edit: mind) than an army who sits and rot in idleness.
@juhatorvinen9303
5 жыл бұрын
I wont lie, to me this serie has most entertainment value since epic rap battles of history. Keep up good work indy and crew!
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@piatpotatopeon8305
5 жыл бұрын
You're such a good teacher, Indy. I had things to yesterday evening and this morning, but I've found myself enthralled by the knowledge your voice carries. EDIT: I can't tell if this line comes across as creepy. I hope it doesn't.
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
Nah, it's fairly mild on the creep index. Glad you like the show!
@SkunkfapGaming
5 жыл бұрын
BY JOVE! i thought i lost you indy! how have i only just found this channel!
@WorldWarTwo
5 жыл бұрын
We're glad you did - you should also check out Indy's, Spartacus' and Astrid's other channel TimeGhost kzitem.info and Sabaton History where Indy guest hosts kzitem.info
@Puudelimorso
5 жыл бұрын
tfw indy will never call you at the start of an episode
@m1994a3jagnew
5 жыл бұрын
The part of eduard daladier will apparently be played by bela lugosi
@melga1988
5 жыл бұрын
Hey guys, congratulations no the great show you put out every week. Could you tell us which books does Indy have on the top of the desk on the left right corner of the video? Thank you again for the great show
@karlbrundage7472
5 жыл бұрын
Your Patron of the week is the namesake of Capt. Collin P. Kelly, USAAC, who was awarded the Medal of Honor, Posthumously, for his B-17D attack on Japanese shipping during the attack on the Philippines in 1941. I'm sure our highlighted patron is eagerly awaiting that episode.....................................
@jyang3481
4 жыл бұрын
Merci
@damianmatras8568
5 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@thetsarofsalt2485
5 жыл бұрын
I like the foreshadowing at 12:15!
@00huntr00
5 жыл бұрын
I ENJOYED THIS
@Suburbangeek
5 жыл бұрын
Those "air quotations" are killing me!
@jamesmunro8804
5 жыл бұрын
Could you please show a "bibliography" in the description? It would be really handy for doing research. Thanks! Great episode!
@eemil69
5 жыл бұрын
Suomi Finland perkele!
@ninaakari5181
5 жыл бұрын
JUMALAUTA
@ChineseFentanyl
5 жыл бұрын
man this show is epic
@monkey_the_chimp6483
5 жыл бұрын
"50'000..... Well that's what he said!..a'ight" *hangs up phone!* Indy please at least say goodbye before hanging up the phone. Sheeesh!
@TomLuTon
5 жыл бұрын
3:35 So it's the 23rd Soviet Division that overruns my Great-grandparents' farm in Ristseppala
@andrewfavot763
5 жыл бұрын
It is STILL impressive how the Finns, under what is starting to literally be against all odds, is posing a threat to Russia. How the hell was Stalin this paranoid? XD
@jm-holm
5 жыл бұрын
Paranoia is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Stalin has created his own enemy and spoiler alert - before WW2 is over approximately 950,000 Soviet soldiers will have become casualties on the Finnish front.
@Oxtocoatl13
5 жыл бұрын
Finland was too close to Leningrad. Stalin had reason to fear that Leningrad's supply lines would be cut from Finland, as they eventually were.
@tyttiMK
5 жыл бұрын
@@Oxtocoatl13 What "Leningrad's supply lines"? It wasn't being supplied from Finland, or from the North.
@Oxtocoatl13
5 жыл бұрын
@@tyttiMK Actually the Murmansk railway became a key supply line later, and the Finns did cut it. There were also prewar talks between Finland and Estonia of jointly sealing off the Baltic sea in the event of war. Russian strategists had thought that Finland presented an easy springboard from which to threaten St. Petersburg. During WWI the Russian army fortified Helsinki and Viipuri extensively as well as maintained a large garrison in Finland out of fear that the Germans would land there. In 1919 Mannerheim had talks with the British and White Russian leaders about organizing a joint attack on bolshevik held Petrograd. Nothing came of it but the Russians were right to be a little worried. Finnish troops contributed to the mass starvation in Leningrad. It was paranoia coupled with actual strategic concerns.
@tyttiMK
5 жыл бұрын
@@Oxtocoatl13 They weren't the supply lines for Leningrad, they were international routes. Are you telling me that the USSR couldn't supply Leningrad without them? Also the Finns stopped at the old border near Leningrad. You can't expect Finns to allow Russians into the country. And if Stalin had actually cared about the people in Leningrad, he could have helped them by evacuating them or sending them food. Instead he let them starve to death because he didn't like the town or its people.
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