For the record, there's currently only two dislikes (up to 21 now, thank you all, you're doing the lords work)....I'm a bit disappointed people. That means no subscribers hit dislike and that this isn't offensive enough. Will edit and adjust this comment as that updates to fix KZitem hiding that important metric.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Thank goodness for that
@williamblack6912
2 жыл бұрын
Forgot to hit dislike...look again.
@karolpolok6854
2 жыл бұрын
Can i subscribe, hit dislike and unsubscribe ? :D I nearly agree that all games you chose shouldnt be at top 100 except wingspan. In category of light, easy games that gives you quite a lot of decisions and lot of satisfaction at the end. Im not sure if that game should be at 23rd place at BGGs top 100 but still theres surely place for birds :) Anyway good job :)
@ingl0rius
2 жыл бұрын
If it helps , I just accidentally hit dislike and then changed it to like 👍 I should go to sleep now 😅
@smoothrivera1928
2 жыл бұрын
Great video- you guys riff off one another so well! And the “Obviously we’re wrong scroll” was hilarious. This was fun, thanks!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed :)
@danbrown679
2 жыл бұрын
I think the 2 videos I have seen so far where Devon is coming to visit are excellent. He adds a excellent sense of humor to the videos and while I may disagree with his points, they are well reasoned. Regarding the question of Root and a "play this not that "video, I would prefer to see a playthrough of 2 player Root with X vs X factions to see if the theory holds water. Not counting expansions my sense is that 2 player Root only works with Cats v Birds, 4 player Root is a game about kingmaking, and I have not played enough at 3 players.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you’ve enjoyed them! They’ve been great to film 😃
@andrewjohnson5550
2 жыл бұрын
Alex’s #10 “All repeats” is outstanding! Almost thought the video could have just ended right there. 😂
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha true
@shannimarmen8201
2 жыл бұрын
Such a good point
@Kentchangar
2 жыл бұрын
Hear! Hear! :)
@markusbiewer2756
2 жыл бұрын
So true!
@stevewithington1787
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely. Watching this with my wife and the first thing I said was they could dump more than ten just by getting rid of the repeats. Seriously, old versions of games should be removed from the list (and it’s not like they haven’t done it - Kanban Automotive Revolution was removed when Drivers Edition came out so why not remove Drivers Edition when EV comes out? IT’S THE SAME GAME!)
@windbane69
2 жыл бұрын
Wingspan is a great game. Lance (Undead Viking) and you are both wrong about laying eggs in the last round. It sometimes is the best, but it's all about min/max. You still have a round goal to go for, or maybe personal objectives, so often a high point bird will be worth more, especially if you're playing with Oceania expansion and need to compete for nectar majorities. Also, you need birds to lay eggs, so it's entirely possible you fill up and need more. Each expansion for Wingspan adds to strategic variety. It's not only accessible, but it's a great strategic/tactical game.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
We did preface that we were wrong!
@riChchestMat
2 жыл бұрын
When I win Wingspan, it’s rarely because of eggs. Tucked cards and food stocks in an engine can be devastating.
@Gregthegreat88
2 жыл бұрын
i was gonna say that. it seems like they haven't played the Oceania expansion.
@pslsail22
7 ай бұрын
100% agree, the expansion especially add cards that make laying eggs a loosing strategy. If my last turns are just laying eggs I know I’m going to loose (unless I have a bonus card that benefits from eggs). The expansions particularly make for many more strategies. Europe really boosts card tucking.
@brickboy137
2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed the fun energy and banter between you, it made for a great video!
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Love getting to chat with Alex :)
@Murphy_DE
2 жыл бұрын
I would really like to know which is your alternative to Aeon's End as cooperative deckbuilder?
@svachalek
2 жыл бұрын
Don’t go play Civilization on your computer, go play Through the Ages on your computer! Or iPad. It is so good in digital. The whole arc of a Civ game in less than an hour.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
He's straight wrong, that game is amazing.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Obviously I'm wrong.
@intrepidfool
2 жыл бұрын
Through the Ages is fantastic. All of the interesting decision space and enjoyment from the video game condensed into a 3 hour board game.
@GreaseMonkeyDojo
2 жыл бұрын
Loving this duets discussion! You guys should do more topics like these, so much more discussions and debates!
@dplentz
2 жыл бұрын
All The Duplicates - YES PLEASE
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
This one bothers me soooo much!
@brianmyers13
2 жыл бұрын
I thought that was sneaky and approve. Any list involving the Top X should assume that all variants are the same game.
@dplentz
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo it should be all put under the same game as different versions and that's it - and it would even give those games a boost in their position
@jacobjslee
2 жыл бұрын
I watch your videos more for information or education, but this may be the first time I was entertained by it. You two spar well with your dialogue - I really enjoyed this. Might be my favourite video you've done. And great idea for a list!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jacob :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@thomashaines1942
2 жыл бұрын
I'm so glad your 10 started with those 12 games. These were the first ones I thought about and needed them to be addressed, but didn't want the entire list to be just these games.
@sjaster
2 жыл бұрын
That was just way too much fun to watch! Thanks for the video, your dynamic is really just so great!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for that!
@jdthiemann6927
2 жыл бұрын
Love the video! I think you guys were respectful in discussing your opinions, but I HAVE to stick up for Twilight Struggle. I am young and play plenty of “modern” games… Twilight Struggle is still my all time favorite. The integration of history and theme is second to none. You are using historical events dynamically, changing the state of the world throughout an epic 45-year conquest. You are also navigating chaos and randomness, doing constant damage control, and living in fear of helping your opponent or (worse) starting a nuclear war. I love Watergate, too, but Twilight Struggle is worth the effort. There is nothing quite like it!
@jimalexander687
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Also, when you are really enjoying a game, it never seems long. I've finished long games like "Twilight Struggle" (and "Star Wars: Rebellion" -- which I've had go even longer), looked at my watch, and couldn't believe the actual time. It seemed significantly shorter while playing it. Likewise, I've had short games seem like three hours, because I hated them. The perception of time is therefore relative to the enjoyability of what one is doing.
@ElGrandoCaymano
2 жыл бұрын
@@jimalexander687 Good point. Their main concern seems to be that it takes too long, but if you're having fun and don't notice the passage, what's the problem? I think TS has a much stronger and relevant theme than either 1960, 1989 or Watergate (or even 13 Days, 13 Hours, Sola Fide and arguably too Labyrinth). The problems that TS does have is knowledge of the deck is important and scoring can be swingy and ultimately untimely luck for such a long game. While I think 1989 is probably the best 'game' of the three (I haven't played Watergate or 13 Days), TS does win on theme implementation and really created a sub-genre of its own. Often imitated, but rarely beaten.
@EmilioRodo
2 жыл бұрын
Backing this up:) I Have several CDGs, and I'll keep my Twilight Struggle copy even if I never get to play it in person. On the other hand, if I had to get rid of one, Watergate would be the first against the wall. It's a fine enough game, but I feel even other "Twilight Struggle Light" games easily surpass it. 13 days is a good example.
@EmilioRodo
2 жыл бұрын
@@ElGrandoCaymano Relevance of the theme is subjective: 1960 does nothing for me (since I'm not American) while 1989 has my hometown on the board:)
@jedalbiston9563
2 жыл бұрын
Such an enjoyable video! I’ve watched it while at the gym and have been getting lots of funny looks from all the laughing to myself. Well done! Thanks!
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Love this 😃
@DarkVincent117
2 жыл бұрын
"Ark Nova doesn't need to be there, because I don't like physical terraforming Mars" WTF XD that's the only thing I listened about his explanation
@KillaJ_09
2 жыл бұрын
I love this channel!! Y’all make a fun pair to watch.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate it!
@michaelaxton5048
2 жыл бұрын
My dream bromance...
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaelaxton5048 Find someone that looks at you like Alex looks at me
@michaelaxton5048
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop LOL
@joelhoskins2066
2 жыл бұрын
Hey I like having the titles on the screen! The little bit of editing adds a lot imo.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, adds a lot of work but I'm hoping to do what I can.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks. That was all my idea...
@ryanskrenes6247
2 жыл бұрын
Architects of the west kingdom does so much more with the most recent expansion and I think stands up to a top 100 status.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Interested to try it out!
@ryanskrenes6247
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop Otherwise yes with the base game and possibly just the 1st expansion as well I would have to agree with you. Our gaming group as a general rule of thumb says no 2 playing at the Max player count.
@riddlesphinxx
2 жыл бұрын
Fun video :) Fun fact: Isle of Cats is the game that knocked Dominion (base game) out of the top 100. When Isle became 100, Dominion became 101. I wonder what games were specifically knocked out by the current 100.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Oh man, so that's where Dominion went :)
@EfrainRiveraJunior
2 жыл бұрын
Yes, Alex. You should've smacked Devon the moment he said, "Viticulture."
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
From what I've seen this week that would be the appropriate response
@EfrainRiveraJunior
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo - I was going to write that you should've Will Smithed Devon, but thought that it might be too soon. 🤣🤣🤣
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I’m a smackable person…
@BoardOfView
2 жыл бұрын
3 hours playing Architects with expansion? I love architects and we always play at least with 5, with the expansion and we do not take that long. Architects is amazing. Waiting for the latest expansion. 🙌🏼
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoy it :)
@sidneyleejohnson
2 жыл бұрын
Clearly what BGG needs is a hall of fame to move games like Twilight Struggle and all the duplicates into and out of a "current" ranked list. Somehow, they need to separate more recent votes from ancient votes to be able maintain a current list. Maybe they already support this idea a little bit.
@jankoo999
2 жыл бұрын
I think it's hard to do that without removing old games as a whole. I agree that Twilight Struggle did not age well and I don't think it should be in the top 100. That said, I also think that even more "ancient" Tigris & Euphrates is still a great game, one that stands the test of time and one that I haven't seen reimplemented in a better/improved/streamlined way. What do you think about Tigris & Euphrates? Would you remove it from top 100 along with Twilight Struggle? If not, how would you determine what goes into "Hall of Fame" and what stays?
@synnical77
2 жыл бұрын
I think that's a bad idea. The default list should be all time numbers. Otherwise you're introducing a 'new game' bias which will basically infers that new games are better.
@sidneyleejohnson
2 жыл бұрын
@@jankoo999 games would be removed based upon continued support or lack thereof. Bgg needs to try to determine If recent rating sustains the placement on the "current" ranking and If not the game be removed. Hall of fame entries could be created for each calender year. Personally I have never played T&E and don't have access to the data to run aggregate statistics to know if the game has had continued support.
@sidneyleejohnson
2 жыл бұрын
@@synnical77 the bias has already been made ubundantly clear by earlier video by Tom Vasel and Alex in their deep dive into bgg data. I am not sure how they got the data but they hosted a very long video clearly demonstrating the new game bias. Best to just acknowledge the bias and start honoring the best games based upon release dates with hall of fames for each year. Don't be fooled by this notion that the list withstands the test of time.. those days of certain games dominating the ratings for years are mostly behind us. I can try to dig up the video I mention if you are interested. It's very good. I am not sure whether Alex hosted it or Dice Tower. I think it was DT with Alex as guest.
@bigbrownie7
2 жыл бұрын
Now that you did a video of games to remove from the BGG Top 100, we need a video of the Top 10 games to be added to the BGG Top 100. That would be a interesting list to see.
@chandlermcgowan2038
2 жыл бұрын
"Obviously you're wrong, and we're playing it this weekend!" T-shirt design?
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol I need to take the time to do that
@TeChNoWC7
2 жыл бұрын
I totally agree that Azul needs to be a game of screwage, and I assumed that I’d only ever want to play it two player for this reason, but it somehow brilliantly works at 3 and even 4 as well.
@adamwaggenspack7156
2 жыл бұрын
I agree with you on duplicates in the top 100 (except I think Gaia Project may be different enough from Terra Mystica to not be a duplicate). I see questions like " How many of the BGG top 100 have you played?" and then have to caveat it depending on if you count the duplicates or not ( e.g. I played and own Agricola but technically not the Revised edition). The duplicates are basically just taking up space while adding no value to the list. It would be better to only include whichever duplicate is higher in rank.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Yep
@christianbortolini1466
2 жыл бұрын
You got me for a few minutes :-) curious to check out the follow up video
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
We’ll maybe do a list of what we’d put in next!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Oh this is very real, don't let the date fool you.
@EfrainRiveraJunior
2 жыл бұрын
It's final. I'm deleting Twilight Struggle from my To-Play list.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol fair
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahah hopefully you don’t regret it. It’s got a lot of fans 😃
@AnimatronicBadgerlord
2 жыл бұрын
As someone that Loves Root... and only plays solo (Clockwork was needed obviously), but as a solo player Root is great for me BUT I also understand the issue. In almost every game I play, either the birds or the cats are always in the lead by a large margin and there is no coming back, once I added in more things like the Dutchy and Corvid, it did get better so it is bothersome you have to get the expansions to get the most out of it. That said... I love it all the same.
@TheDavidPhillips
2 жыл бұрын
I mean, obviously you're wrong. I don't disagree with any of the picks, but I don't dare disagree with an official news ticker.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
That's what I'm talking about!
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
You pushed dislike, right?! To show your support?
@TheDavidPhillips
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop yes, of course - made sure to subscribe first so the dislikes count for triple. Stickin' it to the man! ✊
@peinheber
2 жыл бұрын
I've only gotten through a partial game of Twilight Struggle (point taken). However, the only reason I haven't played it again is that the main person I game with didn't feel like he really got it. That partial play was amazing for me, but possibly because my favorite mechanic is hand management. The amount of strategy as to how you're going to play which cards when and for what purpose while also remembering that you have to play THAT card no matter what and hoping your opponent doesn't screw over your plans and fortifying just enough to enable and protect your plans but not betray them is so satisfying.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Oh I think it's great... Just not four hours great
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
It’s a solid game. Has a lot of things going for it.
@jsbays7805
2 жыл бұрын
Azul: Summer Pavilion is my go to game to play with people for which Wingspan is too complicated.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Haven’t played that one yet!
@aaronclark7687
2 жыл бұрын
Ok now we need a response video with the 12 games you would add to the BGG Top 100 replace the 12 duplicates!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Oh we'll have that conversation :)
@ea_gaming
2 жыл бұрын
Love videos with the two of you, this was awesome! And I see the point about duplicates, but sometimes newer editions are worse than their predecessors, and leaving them separate helps people discern what to purchase
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Yep, but it's weird to have so many duplicates....it ruins the point of the top 100.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Fair argument. Maybe an aggregate score?
@windbane69
2 жыл бұрын
You can always click "next" and look at the next 100 games. They are mostly just as good.
@justinsciacca3524
2 жыл бұрын
dude you need to have devon on more often. You to have such good energy together and you're really having fun and it translates well.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Appreciate it! We try to film when I'm up in Cleveland visiting.
@justinsciacca3524
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop BTW, I played. Arkham and also tried the opening scenario and lost 3 times and never went back. I really want to like the game, I even went and watched play videos of other people playing the same scenario and have no idea how they we're able to beat it. Our 3rd attempt was after quite a bit of research and we got close, but still failed.
@kylecourtright6222
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Disagree with a few of your picks (disagree more with Devon’s picks), but I absolutely love the topic. Down with the duplicates!!!!!!!!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Kyle :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I'm a disagreeable fellow, so I don't blame you.
@mikec5563
2 жыл бұрын
It used to be that putting Devon in a thumbnail was the quickest way to get me to click on a BoardGameCo or Quackalope video. But then he put Root in this list, and now he's dead to me.... RIP
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol fair
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Forgive me!!!
@st0ox
2 жыл бұрын
Here is the thing, Twilight Struggle really gets better if you play it a lot against the same person, because it can deliver the depth that shorter Tug of War games cannot deliver. But I totally agree with everything you said. But at this point I feel like you are criticizing chess, because it doesn't implement more modern mechanisms but don't mention all the innovation it did on the whole genre. The basic idea that you also have to play cards your enemy benefits from is genius and fits the theme perfectly. This also creates so many interesting situations you wouldn't have in other 2 player games that doesn't have that mechanism, because if every player tries to optimize their turns a lot of interesting stuff never happens (which is a reason why a lot of chess games feel stale). But if you have to mitigate the effects of cards you have to play the enemy profits from, a lot of interesting situation are generated naturally. It's like every other turn someone comes around and makes a bad move for you, but at least you can control the timing when this happens. No other game ever felt so tense for me and really deserved the word "struggle" in its title, because you not only play against another player but also play against yourself to some degree. There is so many stuff to balance in this game, but I agree from todays perspective and also at the time when the games released it was practically speaking outdated. There are other games that are fun and then their is Twilight struggle, where you are so happy when it is over and you didn't accidentally nuked the world. But at least every game is memorable.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I totally get that, And to be clear, I do think it's a great game, I just I'm surprised it's in the top 100. I've played the game 5 to 10 times, and while I always enjoyed it, I just never felt it was worth the time it took to play compared to other experiences. Heck, I like chess, but if chess took 4 hours per game I wouldn't play it either.
@isaacthimbleby8926
2 жыл бұрын
With 7 Wonders, try the team variant. It transforms the game completely. But does also double the play length.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm, I'll have to check that out
@Andy-td4sj
2 жыл бұрын
Rising Sun is such a unique experience though (and so is Ankh), so i can see why it is in
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
That’s a trilogy I want to play badly!
@brianmyers13
2 жыл бұрын
I was going to rail against that pick but can see where Alex is coming from. If you look at Rising Sun purely from the 'there are better area control games' his choice is fine. For me it is the deceptively simplistic (not simple or easy) mechanism that draw me in. I don't look at RS as area control as much as he does because of this. But I see his point if one does look at it that way.
@windbane69
2 жыл бұрын
Blood Rage and Ankh ate better, but Rising Sun is still better than Kemet, imo.
@joseg.6187
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video. Great chemistry, more Devon!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
We always want more Devon :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed it as always!
@metalrock720
2 жыл бұрын
I do have to say that while I am interested in a video of Root vs. Forbidden stars - I think the two are very different games. I have both and I am absolutely obsessed with Root (it is my favorite game right now) while Forbidden stars is great but just doesn't hit the table as much. The core of it for me comes down to how fast Root plays and how asymmetrical Root is in comparison. Root typically goes from 1 to 2.5 hours at most. I do agree it is definitely best as a 4 player game but the uniqueness of each faction is just absolutely phenomenal. Each faction truly feels like a different game and experimenting between all the different combinations are just truly remarkable. Forbidden stars while fantastic suffers from the problem that is similar to yalls critique if twilight struggle - it goes really long. It can easily take 4 hours. It is very fun when I have time for it, but Root, although complex, has a very streamlined system at its core which is represented by its faction board outlining everything that you really need to know for the game and get it on the table without extensive rules lookup which increases the pace of the game. Curious to see your thoughts though.
@gillesd9437
2 жыл бұрын
Hi, interesting approach, but okay you remove all those games from top 100, but you replace them with which ones ? You remove Brass Lancashire or Viticulture or Root or Wingspan or... : which one would you put in their respective places ? That's the way to go in my opinion consecutively. Not just throwing things out... Cheers
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Good idea for a follow-up!
@williamblack6912
2 жыл бұрын
I'm mortally offended by root appearing on this list...I would remove Quacks of Quedlinburg
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Quacks is so delightful though :)
@williamblack6912
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo you weren't hit by a bag full of components straight in the face...it were the Premium components I should add
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
It would be hard not to offend with this list!
@scottdirrane6360
2 жыл бұрын
Fun video. Thanks for sharing... and for acknowledging that you have the great opportunity to play games a lot and play a lot of different games. As a huge fan of Pax Pamir I'm going to defend it using what you see as it's drawback. Considering it takes place in the 1800's I think the difficulty in knowing all the information is actually a thematic plus for the game. Lack of full information or even disinformation certainly would have impacted the volatile nature of the Great Game. One could hope they had enough info (playing sub-optimally as you say) or one could work really hard to know it all (playing optimally as you say.). Either way, letting information go or seeking it out at no cost would match the feel and theme of the game (IMO). Cheers!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
An absolutely fair defense... But it still puts it in that position where I would rather pick something else to play :-)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@scottdirrane6360
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo I get that. One of the blessings of having so many options.
@palkojohn
2 жыл бұрын
Hey @BoardGameCo, I liked where you two were going in your discussion of the simultaneous card drafting of 7 Wonders and then you touched on games that you feel do this better. Please make a series of Top 10s where you take an older popular game you introduce/popularize a mechanic and follow it up with your Top 10 games who improve upon this mechanic.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Great video idea!
@RaymondMillbrae
2 жыл бұрын
You guys synch together soooo good. No one tries to take the spotlight or be the chieftain. Enjoyable.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Raymond, we have fun
@paintballinrn
2 жыл бұрын
I like the difference in view in videos like this. Thanks for being courageous enough to even do a video like this.
@ElGrandoCaymano
2 жыл бұрын
Sid Meier has said he based Civilization the computer game on the even earlier Ragnar Bros/Avalon Hill boardgame Civilization.
@robertdascoli949
2 жыл бұрын
Legend has it they're still playing games from this weekend to this day.
@rjtauer
2 жыл бұрын
LOL… I wasn’t upset until Devon claimed Root shouldn’t be in the top 100. But obviously you’re wrong ;). Great video!
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahahah obviously I’m wrong!
@EfrainRiveraJunior
2 жыл бұрын
If Through the Ages is how Devon described, I will definitely play it! A perfect PC Civ conversion to Board Game? I'm in!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
It's soooo good
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha it’s got a lot of fun things going on 😅
@TorIverWilhelmsen
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo It's soooo long! For me Through the Ages is a video game because I only play the app.
@w92viking64
2 жыл бұрын
It’s so overrated
@HardlyDOTA
2 жыл бұрын
It’s soo good but I recommend the app.
@jerrodwarr9706
2 жыл бұрын
Good stuff fellas; these debates are fun. The one I most disagree with is Aeon’s End, mostly because a) the bosses are interesting, unique puzzles and b) it’s a co-op that doesn’t feel tedious like Pandemic. I will also add that if you are looking for an alternate to Pax Pamir 2nd, go to the game that inspired it: King is Dead (but play 2nd Ed.). Or better yet, play Brian Boru which feels like a more interesting evolution in the system.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I made it out of this comment without taking a hit! Take that, Alex!
@JonoNZBoardGamer
2 жыл бұрын
This was an hour well spent! Entertaining the whole time :) thanks
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jonathon :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha glad we could entertain 😃
@jwspiker
2 жыл бұрын
Gaia Project and Terra Mystica aren't the same, but the rest of the duplicates do somewhat align. Not sure i'd include legacy version in the same list, ideally they'd nest the older version under it.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I'll cede that pairing, that's the main one that I was on the fence about.
@MarkusKraus
2 жыл бұрын
Very fun conversation. I'm surprised that Kingdom Death Monster didn't make your list Alex. I expected it to be number one or two.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I haven't played it :) so I didn't include it this time
@bigd5773
2 жыл бұрын
I will say Architects at 5 is miserable. That’s not an excuse, it’s their fault for making it an option. I played with two of my kids and they loved it. So they wanted to play it with two more of their sisters (at 5 players). We didn’t finish and they have never asked to play it again.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Ya....if it was that play alone it would be what it would be...but it was more than that sadly.
@tandeme
2 жыл бұрын
Here is why you both are wrong about Twilight Struggle. Not everyone takes 3-4 hours to play this game. TS is not a tug of war, it is a knife fight in a phone booth. The tension is pegged at 100 the entire game. You can discover new layers of strategy on your 10 or 100th play. Two experienced players can play this in under 2 hours easy. And TS is probably the most balanced asymmetric two player game ever made. I don't think all players consider the real life consequences and dangers of the cold war when playing TS. Play the game again with the mind set that you are making decisions for the survival of your nation and then the game takes on a whole new meaning. This game lets me experience the tension of the cold war without having to have lived through it. Also 1960 and Watergate are great games but they can not compare to TS's layers of depth. Not everyone is wanting a faster experience over a more meaningful one. No hate for you not loving this game. But this game absolutely deserves to be in the top 100. It is the modern day chess. And it looks like most people disagree with your opinion of TS anyways. Keep making videos like this! It is always fun to have these types of conversations.
@zomorion9183
2 жыл бұрын
Man, I love this video! You should do more of these lists and do them with Devon.
@cesarpim
2 жыл бұрын
I've played Root base at 3p dozens of times, it plays fantastic, I don't know what Devon is talking about. Also, it's the first time I see someone saying that Eyrie is one of the strongest and doesn't mention Vagabond.. These kinds of opinions on Root seem to vary so much from person to person that I'm starting to believe the game is actually really balanced 😅
@windbane69
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, there are plenty of recommended settings at all player counts that work. 2 player might start off weak, but 3 has always been fine. Forbidden Stars is nothing like Root, hah.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I've played quite a few times now, but it could definitely be with other players!
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
@@windbane69 the deep asymmetry is what I was referring to and I find it much more satisfying in that game :)
@cesarpim
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop you're entitled to your opinion but you're obviously wrong 😅
@republikadugave420
2 жыл бұрын
3p might be better than 4p actually...I play Eyrie and love the faction..but they have a flaw like every other faction except the lizzards and that is if you gang up on them early the Eyries kinda fizzle out and never recover... but i would say root is 100% balanced until you start playing :) meaning some move can derail balance significantly..best strategy is to go after different players as much as possible because if two of you battle between yourselfs, other factions if unchecked could run away with game...you want to keep the balance and also work for yourself...one example in my online plays is when on turn one or two vagabond player tried and succeded to demolish Cats keep and one building and by doing so gain good amount of points but also by doing so he kinda free me up me as bird player to dominate the game and in the end i won very easy..so he kinda played short term and selfish and by doing so thown the balance of the game on turn one or two..vagabond was too far away to influence me and i just focused on expansion and slow checking the cats..
@kotieerwee2593
2 жыл бұрын
List recommendation: Ganes you have gotten rid off, but ended up getting back and will now never get rid of it.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I can do that one :)
@intrepidfool
2 жыл бұрын
Funny. Paladins of the West Kingdom is the only one of those games in that series that we’ve moved out of our collection. We had strong negative opinions of it. My wife and I didn’t like the randomness of some of the actions and also not knowing all of the scoring conditions until a few rounds in. If a player has more luck with their engine aligning with the revealed cards than the other players, you can stop right there rather than slogging through another hour plus with the game out of reach in hopeless chase mode. OTOH, really like Raiders (as a gateway) and Architects (for the mechanic twist). Neither one is Viticulture but they both have a place in our collection.
@intrepidfool
2 жыл бұрын
Hahah. And then. I just got to Viticulture. Lol. Viticulture EE w/ Tuscany is a fantastic game. Interesting decision space, unique theme, lots of ways to compete, and plays well at many different player counts. Curious, but what worker placement games do you like the most?
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Valid for sure! I think it’s the least accessible of the three
@beornthebear9023
2 жыл бұрын
I almost completely agreed with Alex till he hit number 1. Boooo journeys in middle earth is so fun but I know app based games are one of the few places our tastes don’t align. Devon’s list might be my most disliked list any creator has ever made 👍🏻. Two that for me I don’t think belong are Kingdom Death (I think too niche for top 100) and Caylus I just think is outdated I am borderline on Tigris and Euphrates as well.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol, I'll take 9 out of 10
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Haha disliked as in you disagree heavily? If so, I’m sorry! I’ll make it up to you… maybe.
@magnusjakobsson7424
2 жыл бұрын
I will also defend JiME! Love the card combat and leveling up cards and gear!
@franceskirchner9763
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like you just listed off all my favourite games 😂. That’s ok, I forgive you both.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha hard not to hit favorite games at this level 😂
@purplehound2420
8 ай бұрын
Wingspan! If I never have to play it again, I'd be happy. I left a party just last night to avoid it! "Oh! It's 11pm? Oh, dear. We really should head home."
@juliansykes6668
2 жыл бұрын
Given your comments on Apps, have you tried UBOOT: The Board Game?
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I haven't yet
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I’ve always wanted to!
@juliansykes6668
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop I hope you get the chance. Its a very individual experience which I always enjoy.
@BratatataRoel
2 жыл бұрын
Regarding Root. I think you shouldn't judge a game on pure app plays. Sure it's the same rules, but a large part of the fun in a game is the other people I play with. Feeding off their energy and seeing their face when I backstab them. You'll never have a "remember that time when..."-moment with app plays.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Fair point, but I've played it several times in person as well! It's less the player interaction that is the problem and more the seeming imbalance at less than four players.
@robertcricco1512
2 жыл бұрын
Def wrong about pax pamir, first up, it’s visually stunning. Second the gameplay is tight, everything feels like it’s tight and you are constantly countering your opponents. There are times the game could end abruptly and your enemies are working to tear you down. It’s just so fun!!!
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Listen, I hear you....we're definitely wrong :)
@siejaiz
2 жыл бұрын
Alex you are spot on, Devon was terribly wrong on half his list
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol thanks
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I'm used to being wrong. It gets easier over time ;)
@CheddahSlammer
2 жыл бұрын
I think some of those so called duplicates shouldn't be included because their frankly not the same game. For example Gloomhaven and Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion, are completely different in terms of content, story and experience. Same thing with Pandemic Legacy Season 0, 1 & 2. I would include revised editions in duplicates because their the same game with just some tweaks, but not games that a vastly changed to give you a different experience. I honestly would get rid of every game that needs and expansion or module as a crutch.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Good point
@1Dreamking
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! 2 criterias that would imidiatly make me not buy a BOARDGAME (or rank it high) is if it needs an app or if it needs pen&paper while playing. I have no problems if any of those tools would assist me in a game session but if it is required then no thanks. If it needs pen&paper I would classify it as a party game or it would be a role playing game and not a boardgame. If it needs an app, well why half ass it, just play computer games instead. Obviously I am wrong though.
@MichaliSarris
2 жыл бұрын
Great video and lots of fun radiating from you both! I think I'm most offended by the Pax Pamir pick, but your critique is a good one. Of course that will be reduced after extended play, but like what you said in your recent video that's the mastery vs variability thing and for you that makes this game less appealing for you. Still I do think the position in the top 100 is probably deserved, I admire the design of the game and am quite impressed by it. Btw I won the first scenario of Mansions of Madness 2nd ed. and still sold the game after that play haha. It's a fine game, just not something I'm interested in really, I discovered. I have Aeon's End too and like you said it's fine but not that special to warrant the high position. Can't wait for the follow up with games you really want to see in the top 100. ;)
@subafiam1987
2 жыл бұрын
Are you planning to make a video about your 10 game pick which should be in the Top100?
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Yes :)
@ChromaTick360
2 жыл бұрын
That was a fun video. Agreed with some things, disagreed with others. The only thing that gave me a strong emotional response though was the 7 Wonders segment. I'm fully Team Alex on this one!
@intrepidfool
2 жыл бұрын
Agree with Devon on this one. We never get Root to the table since it is four player and asymmetric. My wife and I cannot play it a bunch with the various factions so that we can then introduce it expertly to people at game night. So we end up with a painful, AP prone experience with constant rules checking. Excellent game in theory but just difficult to find it fun in practice. I think a dedicated group that plays it many times together could enjoy it but it doesn’t work to me as a pull it out once or twice a year and teach to people.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, I just feel like it’s only one I’d play with other people who own the game or know how to play very well.
@paulmccaffrey2985
8 ай бұрын
I think, for me, Twilight Struggle is appealing because it encapsulates the Cold War--the time period I grew up in. I enjoy that experience not just because it's a tug-of-war, but the whole world is the stage. I like seeing all the countries involved and the headlines of the day. It's epic.
@elqord.1118
2 жыл бұрын
Y’all done messed up with Pax Pamir and Twilight Struggle
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I know....but still :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I can't wait to try Pax Pamir :D
@artemlarionov7084
2 жыл бұрын
Terra Mystica and Gaia Project are NOT "basically the same games". It's like saying that Agricola and Caverna are basically the same games. There are enough differences even for keeping them both.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I'll concede the point... although I do believe Caverna and agricola are basically the same game
@artemlarionov7084
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo I think it's better to say that game versions that were made absolete and out of print by publishers should be merged or just removed from rankings (for example, Twilight Imperium, Agricola, Through the Ages). Brass games, Terra Mystica/Gaia Project, Agricola/Caverna are all still supported by publishers and it means that there is a place for all versions on market. By the way expansions for these games make them more different from each other.
@MoriMemento117
2 жыл бұрын
Giving this video a preemptive "like", but if either of you utter the words Mage or Knight, either alone or together in a sentence, so help me I will rain down such a heavenly fire of internet rage the world has never seen!! xD
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Fair :)
@Spidoink
2 жыл бұрын
Great video, great conversation. I love your Passion about the duplicate entries in the top 100. Gave me a good laugh. I would have to agreed. 🥂 I'd also add, having a top 100 is a tad deceiving, or unfair? Not sure the word. The sheer amount of games out there now, if you're a top 500, you're probably a great game. Name it the Top 250 like IMDB and give the preseitge to an additional 150 games.
@allbutgrey
2 жыл бұрын
Great videos guys. I do think you forget how complex a game Wingspan actually is to the average person. Yet the theme resonates with the average person. It def belongs in the top 100
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Oh I left it in...blame that guy.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Oh I am not forgetting that. It's definitely a hobby game that is being made accessible to a wider audience due to its size and popularity. But it still doesn't do it for me.
@allbutgrey
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo hahah. Clearly Devon is wrong! 🤣
@allbutgrey
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop fair. You're still wrong 😜 💜
@bdgza
2 жыл бұрын
Obviously you are wrong about Twilight Struggle. lol. If you are not into the theme, not willing to invest into the intricacies and just see it as another “tug of war” game then yeah, I can see why. Watergate is a great game and packs a lot of punch into a shorter timeframe, but it is not “exactly the same”. The shorter time trades in the depth. It’s like saying why bother investing time into learning Chess, having to play all those games to get any good, when Checkers provides the exact same experience of moving your pieces to the other side on a square grid board in a much shorter game. You could enjoy checkers, you could enjoy it over Chess, but it’s not Chess.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I mean obviously we're wrong is the tagline of this...but that said, how many plays of TS do I need before it shows it's brilliance? 7? 12? I don't remember how many times I've played it....somewhere around 10, but while I enjoy it...I just don't think it's worth the time.
@bdgza
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCoTS showed its brilliance to me the first game. You don’t need (shouldn’t need) to play that many times for it to be revealed. Yes, if you learn the unique deck you will get stronger at the game, as you will by learning the various moves and combos. But even if you learn those moves and combos it doesn’t lead to a singular “best moves” situation, there are always different ways to play with diffent trade-offs, a sign of a great deep design. Playing between unmatched players can be a bit of a downside of the game. But if both players are equally (in)experienced you can get a good game. A game that constantly puts you under pressure to make compromises like few games can. You are never able to do all what you want and always fear what your opponent will do. For me this is the ultimate Chess (which I don’t like) substitute. There have been good games before and since in the CDG family originated by Mark Herman, but TS is the cream imo. It hits the perfect note between accessibility, theme, tension and depth of strategies. All in a game with rules you can teach in about the same time as teaching the rules of Watergate. Watergate teaches you about, well, Watergate. It was an important moment for the US. But it pales in comparison to the scope and impact of the Cold War. You learn a lot about this and it makes you want to learn more.
@joshuag7027
2 жыл бұрын
well you picked a good day to do this list hahaha. curious what you would replace these with
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol I know :) And yes, we'll have a follow up of the 10 games we'd add in :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Follow-up video shall be made!
@EfrainRiveraJunior
2 жыл бұрын
If I were ever to win the lotto, my energy would be concentrated on creating a website that would replace the horrible BGG.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Doing things right is hard, and the larger it gets the harder.
@EfrainRiveraJunior
2 жыл бұрын
@@BoardGameCo - BGG has lost itself in many ugle ways.
@ichdarfdaswirklich5073
2 жыл бұрын
Dear Sirs, I deeply appreciate this video for the idea and the entertainment you have provided. Swimming against the main stream is always interesting when you present good arguments, here also underlined with a good chemistry between you two and some big laughs on my end. I loved every second of this video. I surely will make a gif out of the Through-the-ages-heartbreak-face. Please make more of those!
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
We had a great time :)
@zachras9643
2 жыл бұрын
Mansions of Madness should be played where you play the scenario and then, win or lose, move on to the next in my opinion. You can come back to one you lost after other scenarios. There is such a variety in the scenarios that unless you’ve played at least a few, you won’t understand how great it is🙂 Love the video though!
@callum5257
2 жыл бұрын
You're not wrong about Rising Sun. I sold mine recently after years because there is no way it is getting played again over Bloodrage, Ankh, Lords of Hellas, Rurik... or most of the rest of the collection haha. You are wrong about Root though... sorry.
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Haha, I was bound to fail at some point
@marnixdewit9678
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Alex, we have very similar taste in games (or at least I like a lot of the games you do). I would guess that power grid would be something you would actually appreciate if you play it again.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
I have it and hope to :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Me too, right?!
@isaacthimbleby8926
2 жыл бұрын
R.e. Dominion Intrigue, it was the second game. People who didn't like the first wouldn't bother playing the second (and therefore there are fewer low ratings), yet it's also the second oldest, so has more votes than most other versions.
@rogerklee459
2 жыл бұрын
Agree on underwater cities but disagree on pax pamir
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely fair :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
I can't wait to try Pax Pamir :)
@matissmatiss3126
2 жыл бұрын
And that was the last time we ever saw Devon on this channel 😂
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Maybe...
@jimw2633
2 жыл бұрын
I have a shockingly high overlap with you guys on what to remove from the Top-100 :-) E.g., I strongly agree on Underwater Cities, Ark Nova, Wingspan, Mansions of Madness, LotR:JiME. I strongly disagree though on Pax Pamir!!! :-O That game is awesome and can create such memorable almost cinematic moments - as a Euro-style Tableau-builder!
@HardlyDOTA
2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this video. Most of your other shots seem fair where I’d played the game which admittedly wasn’t a lot. TTA is arguably the best game I’ve ever played. But in our group it’s unplayable as a board game - too slow, too prone to errors. But on the app that handles the back end it’s amazing.
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Tta is sooo good
@notjux
2 жыл бұрын
Can't help but notice that this video has more than 1k likes. Anxiously awaiting that Root vs Forbidden Stars PTNT!
@inoutsoccer11
2 жыл бұрын
Oh man.... Aeon's End is in my top 5 of all time. Which deck builders do you suggest instead of it? You said there were many, but I didn't hear one listed XD (I haven't gotten to the Hero Realms Coop Expansion yet). Loved the video and the back and forth between you too.
@swillsswil4817
2 жыл бұрын
One of your most entertaining videos to date. I don't even mind how very wrong you were about Mansions of Madness 😋
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol thanks :)
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha I know I’m very wrong on that one
@Ravnkel25
2 жыл бұрын
Can't believe how much I disagree with Devon. Need a Devon Channel so I can buy anything he doesn't like 😁
@BoardGameCo
2 жыл бұрын
Lol do it!
@DevonTalksTabletop
2 жыл бұрын
Hahaha I do have a channel and you’re so welcome there!
@Ravnkel25
2 жыл бұрын
@@DevonTalksTabletop subscribed
@susangarey7532
2 жыл бұрын
I I totally agree on Raiders of the North Seas. I thought it would be so interesting with the mechanism of picking up a worker and placing a worker, and the different colors of workers doing different things. And then it wasn’t interesting or compelling at all. I didn’t get why it was so high on the top 100.
@TorIverWilhelmsen
2 жыл бұрын
My issue with Twilight Struggle (and Labyrinth both) is that you can start out with a ton of opponent cards and score cards in hand, meaning you have a huge disadvantage. Imperial Struggle fixes that issue.
@EmilioRodo
2 жыл бұрын
To each their own I guess: as far as I'm concerned, finding creative ways to mitigate these situations is half the fun of the game. This is probably the thing I'm missing the most in Watergate.
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