I'm 65, a lifelong tinkerer and wood worker, and played guitar as a hobby since age 10. My first guitar had a neck that was way too thick, so I carved it. I never looked back. I eventually went into engineering because that is all I could seem to do. I was thinking I would tool up, buy woods, and help local kids get a good electric guitar and do it hands-on, so I began to pursue that. Well, I destroyed my back during that endeavor, and it never happened. Now I have all of these woods, and the hardness and density are what I based my choices on. Yes, they are equatorial woods - something I didn't think about at the time. Many of the boards could easily be used for acoustic guitars and I have a bandsaw with ten-inch capacity. I just finished building a real woodshop which is something I have never had. So now I am trying to get a few in before I kick the bucket. Watching your presentation, I get exactly where you are coming from. If it has the right specific gravity and hardness relativity, what difference does it make where it came from? And yes, the US has plenty of forests to selectively harvest. Being from the West coast, the woods that fall into that category are less available, but even some of the West coast varieties would probably work. I agree that this concept that it has to be this or that exotic wood and as you say the practices absolutely should be part of the decision, and it is good to see this thought-out approach finally coming into the fore. Controversy or not, having controversy over taking advantage of others and in the process destroying the lungs of the earth is silly. It is killing the future for what - A nice-looking guitar body? Okie dokie, that's just fantastic. I'll say it whereas you didn't - think hard about the impact of your personal choices - it did not just magically appear into a music store - a lot happened before it got there. Some of it was good, and some of it really bad.
@NickleJ
11 ай бұрын
I enjoyed reading your comment and agree with your assessment. I fear our society has gone down a really bananas path with regard to what we prioritize. And you didn't say it, but I will, this has happened at the hand of capitalist consumerism and the perverse notion that value can be expressed in USD.
@mandohat
7 ай бұрын
Im kinda done trying to build guitars, but thinking about building with North American woods makes me want to try again. I'm so over rosewood and mahogany
@thepragmaticluthier
7 ай бұрын
Get yourself some nice wood of your choice. It doesn't NEED to be quarter sawn and it WILL be LESS expensive that all that exotic stuff. The lower cost will help reduce the pucker factor because you materials can be easily replaced. Please try it again and enjoy making yourself a terrific guitar:)
@mandohat
7 ай бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier speaking of pragmatic, my first guitar has a neck built from a $6 mahogany board from a home center. I attached it with a stainless steel bolt and a wing nut through the strap button. It's held for 10+ years and never had to tighten it!
@naturalsurvival1536
Жыл бұрын
Another American hardwood of interest is Osage Orange. It is a very good tonewood, getting close to some of the rosewoods in sound, hardness, and density. I was just wondering about hickory and I think I will give it a try on one of my next builds coming up!
@rudybaker8641
8 ай бұрын
Same family but a bit less numericaly is mulberry and even pecan
@willymccoy3427
7 ай бұрын
I've been using Osage Orange for fretboards, nuts and bridges.
@johnpeters211
4 ай бұрын
I was going to mention Osage Orange separately but will tag on to your comment. It is much harder than Hickory at 2,620 J hardness and .76 specific gravity. Pretty inexpensive as well. I have some planning to make bridges and fretboards with it.
@chrisclarke3670
6 ай бұрын
How does a guitar with hickory back and sides look and sound? Your piece is very interesting for sure.
@thepragmaticluthier
6 ай бұрын
The tonal effect that a back and rim wood has on a guitar has more to do with density and stiffness than with specie. Hickory is the hardiest, heaviest and strongest commercially used deciduous timber in North America. You can expect it to contribute to a percussive, bright tone. As for aesthetics, lookout some Hickory. I admire it . Others may not.
@atomdent
Жыл бұрын
Have you ever considered bois d arc (also known as orange osage) for fingerboard and bridges?It is extremely hard and durable.
@brentwalker8596
4 ай бұрын
Buy local. Nice.
@ronaldkirby9299
11 ай бұрын
Agreed ive been woodworking since I was 8 yrs old. 40 yrs later ive made just about everything out of wood. About 6 yrs ago I got idea to make guitar out of walnut and cherry. I was told it can't be done. Thank you for this video challenge accepted.
@stevewilliams7852
Ай бұрын
You remind me of Bob Taylor and his support of sustainable ebony from Madagascar. My Grandfather was a violin maker that lived in Seaside California and he collected driftwood from the beach because it had been soaking in seawater for a long time. He also recycled old pianos and used the ebony, ivory and the sound boards for use in his violin building because he felt that years of sound passing through the wood had conditioned it to be more receptive.
@hackerguitar
Жыл бұрын
Osage orange is a viable candidate - it bends well and has numbers in the range of the rosewoods. Acacia melanoxylon (Black acacia), which is a close relative of koa, also bends well and is often available in sizes that work for instrument making. Black acacia also makes good fingerboards, holding frets surprisingly well.
@richardcooksey1600
Жыл бұрын
If you want to color that light color fret board try rust and vinegar. It reacts with tannin in the wood and darkens it. Some woods will go all the way black. It really brings out the grain.
@robertdavis1116
Жыл бұрын
Fume with ammonia
@swilliams2229
Жыл бұрын
We used to call that stuff "liquid hell" It seemed to fit for some reason.
@mooseymoose
Жыл бұрын
Also you can soak the surface with strong tea to increase the blackening.
@abydosianchulac2
Жыл бұрын
For a more controlled, repeatable stain you can use ferrous sulphate/"green vitriol" for this effect. It's purchasable for pretty little expense online, and once you find a solution strength you like you can mix it up again and again without the crapshoot of whether you have as many rusty nails of the same level corrosion as last time.
@valvenator
Жыл бұрын
Make sure to test on scrap. Some woods will stain unevenly with light and dark blotches.
@ksquine
Жыл бұрын
A big part of the problem is the market. People tend to get very conservative when buying expensive instruments....It's gotta look like a pre-war Martin or Gibson or that guitar my hero played. Walnut has become much more popular lately and maple has been around for years. Other woods will become popular as people see more guitars out and about.
@MrBullethead63
11 ай бұрын
I agree 100%! I built a quarter sawn red oak Martin style Dreadnaught for a friend, and was amazed at how good it sounded! It is really beautiful, too!
@thepragmaticluthier
11 ай бұрын
Sometime in the 90's, Martin built three Dreadnoughts in Walnut, Cherry and Red Oak. They were not well received at all,I think because they didn't look "Martinique" and it's too bad because all of those guitar were every bit as good as any other Dreadnought they built. I don't have to guess. I KNOW your Red Oak guitar is excellent and I admire your willingness to divert from the Mahogany mentality.
@robertlong7665
10 ай бұрын
Fascinating. I built 4 dreadnoughts out of walnut in 1976. Sounded great then. I saw two of them a few years ago and they aged beautifully. Making a birdseye classical right now. Glad to see I'm not the only nativist out there!
@marianhood1025
Жыл бұрын
I live in Western Canada and I'm studying lutherie. My chosen instrument is the ukulele and my latest build was of what we call Manitoba maple, I believe it's also called box elder. The reds in it are spectacular and, although it needed quite a bit of stabilization, I'm very pleased with how it sounds. I've purchased some roasted maple that I plan to try using for fret boards and bridges. By all means, let's explore the possibilities of the native North American woods.
@abydosianchulac2
Жыл бұрын
How did you finish the BE to keep the flame from fading over time?
@marianhood1025
Жыл бұрын
@@abydosianchulac2I used Stew Mac's wipe on poly. The uke is about a year and a half old, not sure how it will age.
@matthewenglish8325
6 күн бұрын
Great perspective! I'm early into my first build, and even though it's just a hobby project, I deliberately chose to use North American hardwoods for many of the reasons you cite. Great video, great message!
@andrewmundenandcadfellmast4624
Жыл бұрын
Second comment lol. If you know of Trevor Gore (well known Aussie luthier and author), he made an amazing guitar using so called "rubbish timbers" he recycled from his shed. Its sounds pretty darned good, considering it was made using construction type lumbers. So, tonewood is important to a certain degree, particularly in tops, but for backs and sides, necks and fretboards, the amount they contribute to tone is fairly small, esp for a beginning maker like myself (I dont qualify as a luthier yet😂). Trevor stressed that good basic grain considerations, timber qualities (how easy is it to bend, density etc) and most of all, sound construction techniques, are what contribute most to tone (apart from the soundboard). Its tge last little few percentage points of tone that come from tge best timbers, but most folks cant tell the difference anyway...
@drgonzo305
Ай бұрын
I got some curly hickory, enough to make 3 necks and I’m using what’s left for some fretboards. Awesome looking wood
@yomommaahotoo264
3 ай бұрын
Speaking of using what's available, I could envision recycling quality solid acoustic guitar backs and sides someday...(when destroyed soundboards destine the guitar to a trash heap).
@jameseddy5796
11 ай бұрын
I watched this video with great interest. I've been a woodworker most my life, but only recently built my first guitar, a classical. I used black walnut throughout (with spruce top and wenge fingerboard and bridge). I've only used domestic hardwoods in my work for years, so it was a no-brainer to use some of the walnut in my shop (I found a nice piece of quarter sawn in the lumber yard.. I think it is a very handsome guitar and is delightful to play. I see all the mistakes in my first build and don't care. It's for me, and some mistakes will be replaced by others as I make more.. I just recently discovered your channel, and like your approach to craft. It's not too far from mine (though I have a small but substantial CNC in my shop). I look forward to more of your videos.
@twintriode
2 ай бұрын
Interesting viewpoint. I like all sorts of woods. I'm personally driven by the classics. The guitars that defined a time or music. I'm also left handed so I get what I get, I guess. Some builders don't even make left handed guitars. I personally go out of my way to never consider them if they ever do.
@MyZxcvb12
2 ай бұрын
I like what you said about timber being out of poor country's if only more people would do what you do, it would help the poorer country's or even pay their worth. Thanks for the video. It was very informative 👍
@glennrisnes
8 ай бұрын
At aprox 6 minutes you make a comment about how difference can you really hear.. Most Sound Engrs can hear the difference .3 dB makes.. I imagine many Guitar player musicians can too. Not criticizing just making an observation…
@visiblename
8 ай бұрын
osytra virginiana ironwood (hophornbeam) (native) and lilac( common/naturalized) at least are harder Janka than hickory off the top of my head. However ostrya has a lower modulus of rupture and modulus of elasticity than black locust or shagbark hickory. I think ostrya ironwood would make a bulletproof fretboard at the least. Likely great for everything.
@runarsigurdsson1517
Жыл бұрын
I like this video. I live in Iceland, and it is challenging to get wood here. I use what I can get, and I have used oak and beech, which sound great.
@suzukiyesteryear
Жыл бұрын
Greetings from Idaho, USA! While I'm certain Iceland gets more than its fair share of snow, freezing rain, blizzards and plain old rainy days; do you find all that moisture makes for difficult drying and general fabrication, as well as simple storage of acoustic instruments?
@stevenwarner4430
8 ай бұрын
Northern Mexico and southern Texas are filled with Mesquite, I often wonder what a neck, back, sides and fretboard would be capable of made from Mesquite ?
@michaelparsons5352
3 ай бұрын
Great video, great topic. As a player, not a builder, I would love to hear some of your guitars. Fo you have any demo videos?
@johnmoyer5515
Жыл бұрын
I have portable sawmill I don't have a kiln but you can find someone that does I have stacks of lumber. I can mill a 30" log but quarter saw need about maybe 16" log heftiest cut is 6" deep
@barkeater9606
Жыл бұрын
IMO, a tiger striped maple stained like the old Kentucky rifles were, would make a beautiful fretboard. 👍
@barkeater9606
Жыл бұрын
This is great information. I think that an Adirondack spruce top, black cherry back and sides, and a maple/hickory neck would make a great guitar. Also, all of the wood could come from local lumber. Here in the Adirondack Mountains of Upstate New York, we have all of it. Curly yellow birch is also a beautiful wood.
@pmwhitlock
Жыл бұрын
I'm in the Southern Appalachian range but I'm currently building that exact guitar! Curly black cherry, red spruce, and maple neck.
@nicholasgeorge7825
Жыл бұрын
Yellow birch or other hard birch (sweet birch) would make a fine tone wood and might be hard enough for fingerboards too.
@nicholasgeorge7825
9 ай бұрын
Hey you want to barter red spruce for something I might have? Also how do you tell if its red at the lumberyard? Any clues?
@nicholasgeorge7825
9 ай бұрын
Yellow birch is good. Sweet birch also. One of them is really hard. You find it on stupid Americana furniture like Ethan Allen.
@simonbruder637
2 ай бұрын
Les industries de guitare sont en train de tuer la forêt bien souvent pour des guitares bas de gamme qui ne sonne rien vos vidéos sont intéressantes
@nicholasgeorge7825
Жыл бұрын
There's some possibly harder alternatives to hickory, and with hickories you really need to watch the species and the growth density. As with all ring porous species, but hickory in particular, hardness will go down with tighter growth rings. There may be exceptions. The temperate zone ebony species, persimmon may have an edge in hardness over the hickories. Osage orange might. Generally black locust will be superior to hickory in stiffness and maybe hardness and wear resistance, but a lot depends on the locale. Gibson used baked maple for a while on Lee Pauls. Torre faction with resin impregnate on may yield good finger boards from temperate zone hardwoods. Walnut might be a good choice for experimenting. I believe old Ovations had walnut fingerboards. See US Forest Service wood data sheets for stiffness, density, hardness and other information on most commercially used wood species.
@StanEby1
4 ай бұрын
Very interesting. Pignut Hickory is even harder than Shagbark.
@REGLeaf
Жыл бұрын
This video has been very informative & very well done. Certainly reformed my perspective somewhat on guitar building ethics, looks vs sound. I have 3 guitars, one of which is a Guild Classical, nylon strung, & is the 1st guitar I ever purchased 64 years ago in the dry, high desert western state of Utah. Sir, please continue making your very beautiful & heartfelt, videos. Now a loyal fan, Ron (“in Utah”) 😎 🇺🇸
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your comment. I appreciate it. That Guild classical you have is quite rare. They were very nicely made and yours is from the original Hoboken, NJ shop when the founder, Alfred Dronge, was alive and active. NICE!
@jonavedian1027
Ай бұрын
@thepragmaticluthier Kevin, aside from appearance, is there a significant downside to more than two piece tops? I have seen multi on backs besides yours, so i assume it works structuralty. I am very amateur on building guitars, but harvest a wide varietey of urban lumber for woodworking and turning. Also, thoughts on eucalyptus and mullberry?
@thepragmaticluthier
Ай бұрын
I have never experienced a downside to multi-piece tops. I have done several four piece tops, some of them now twenty five years old, and even one eleven piece top in Sugar Pine. My experience has been that neither tone quality or structural quality suffer. A multi-piece top can offer an opportunity to use narrow billets of very high quality material that at first thought might be set aside.
@TonecrafteLuthiery
3 ай бұрын
One of the things I find interesting about hickory is how few pores there are in the endgrain, and how small the pores are. If you look up microscope images of hickory you’ll see what I’m talking about. The pores are few and far between compared to basically anything else. I haven’t done any tests or anything but in theory I feel like it would make excellent necks or fretboards.
@thepragmaticluthier
3 ай бұрын
All science and diffuse porosity aside, Hickory makes an excellent back and rim, It will make a terrific neck, albeit heavy. A Hickory fingerboard is a definite if color suits the user. I wish more of it was seen in guitars.
@chasmenear7130
11 ай бұрын
As a luthier (restoration), and player I completely agree with what you are pitching here. I especially like the idea of oak as a tone wood. Glitches if any occur (or seem to occur) from two things. One is how the wood is cured/dried, the other being that some of the wood described is rather hard on cutting tools - primarily because they are less 'oily' than many of the exotic woods. Both factors are easily overcome.
@martinlaroche-rx3su
3 ай бұрын
this video is just an eye openner to me. I run a small sawmill and do make some quarter sawn boards for woodworking. I also split logs for chairmaking where straight grain is important. After air drying the wood, I might put it in the solar kiln for a while to bring the moisture down that is compatible with my shop. That way I can start using the wood for a project faster. For guitar making, does the wood need extra time to be ready to use or the moisture content is the only criteria of importance? I heard stories about the benefit to air dry tonewood for decades !!?! Thanks for your answer and your time!!!
@thepragmaticluthier
3 ай бұрын
What any instrument builder is after is stability. Whether it be air drying or kiln drying doesn’t really matter as long as the material is brought to a proper working moisture content, and then carefully acclimated to the environment in which it’s going to be used. As Lumber ages, the various sugars and other substances inside it tend to solidify, and that creates greater stability, but waiting for decades for that to happen is not all that important as long as the material is nicely dry when you begin using it.
@nicholasgeorge7825
9 ай бұрын
Oh man, there's better North American species than hickory (Carya sp.) But you're right that as a genus they're top in hardness and stiffness, but esp breaking strength, which is why they're used for tool handles. Shagbark is good. They're may be some other varieties which are as good or better, and in general hickories vary quite a bit. All ring porous NA woods vary, with the slower growth ones being softer and less dense. Keep an eye out for the heavier birches, sweet birch etc. I believe Gibson used them early on for archtops. Prob better than maple, but not as figured.
@thepragmaticluthier
9 ай бұрын
Thank you for your comment, but please keep in mind that the video did not advocate the se of Hickory alone, but any number of species other than the traditional equatorial woods in current use. With respect to strength, actual hardness, or most other mechanical properties beyond stability, there is nothing in a guitar that would tax the properties of almost any deciduous specie.
@suzukiyesteryear
Жыл бұрын
Strange no mention of Vermillion Wood in any of the banter!!!??? Harder than steel, EXTREEMLY beautiful and, sadly, unobtainium.....
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
That I did not mention a wood doesn't at all, mean that it isn't viable or useful. Vermillion doesn't grow in my region. If it did, i would probably make use of it.
@dalecostich8794
6 ай бұрын
Build your own guitar...yes the premier corporate guitar makers, brag about getting the now unavailable rosewoods , just ahead of the law being changed and they are hoarding this stock pile. the earth and its people suffrer from capitalistic greed.
@thepragmaticluthier
6 ай бұрын
I think we are in agreement with everything you wrote in this comment. And I'm glad I'm not among the relentless profit seekers.
@jamescopeland5358
Жыл бұрын
Chinaberry would make a great guitar being kin to mahogany
@johnsee7269
Жыл бұрын
I believe Antonio made his out of maple and spruce. He made his kinda long and narrow not (exaggerating here...) like the modern, ten feet wide, CF Martin guitars. That guy knew something and did good work. I always liked the idea of walnut and spruce. I think part of the popularity of rosewood is its inherent beauty or intrinsic beauty. My understanding is that Antonio's one remaining, playable guitar is worth about 16 million; obviously attributable to who made it and maybe not whether it sounds as good as a CF Martin...
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Torres made around 155 guitars. I haven't been able to find out how many exist, but I'm sure there are several. I know that the "Romero" family own at least one and i have seen a short video of Richard Brune playing one that he had restored. I believe there are other in some museums around the world.
@pmscalisi
Жыл бұрын
“Capitalism” is the new and trendy boogeyman 😂 Excellent video. I’ve always wondered why no one builds with these woods. It’s probably popular thought, people usually use their eyes more than their ears.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I agree with every word but one; that being "new". Capitalism has been around since long before "The Silk Road" and has now just hit its present apex after centuries of refinement and perfection. And while it has it's benefits to all of use, I openly resent that present day capitalist seem to think that they should have superior influence over government and the public while operating totally unfettered and unregulated.
@JDCottonMusic
11 ай бұрын
What an inspiring presentation on reducing environmental impacts and encouraging the use of domestic American tonewoods. I’m on board. I actually found this video while searching for guitars made from Hickory species.
@fenderpicker57
Жыл бұрын
The Harmony Company in Chicago thought this way. It's my understanding they used mostly solid sycamore and birch to build their guitars back in the 60's. The build quality wasn't the best but at least they used American wood!
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Harmony had a long history that went way back to Lyon & Healy. they were even once owned by Sears & Roebuck. Harmony was, at one time the largest manufacturer of guitars in the country, specializing in low priced instruments. They cared little or not at all about sound. Their goal was to mass produce low price instruments for sale under their own name as well as dozens of others. They manufactured predominantly, in the cheapest, most reliably available materials they could get.
@amoamasamatitagain1715
Жыл бұрын
2 obvious comments. Let’s hear a few of your guitars and let’s hear what materials you make your tops from….. I assume Sitka or similar but let’s have the chat. Otherwise…..good effort.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I named the materials in every guitar.
@kevinmorris7722
Жыл бұрын
I could be wrong... but I'd bet in the early 1900s the imported wood was cheap due to the undeveloped nations. I don't believe they could get north American timber without paying a bigger labor cost?? I'm sure the choices had to do with money as well as sounds and abundance.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I believe the history of guitar materials finds its roots in the Spanish occupation of South America and the Spanish tradition of guitar making. From there, the tradition was continued in North America, probably through early luthiers, especially Martin Guitar, but Martin also created many instruments in Male in its early history. I could be wrong too, but I'm quite sure Spanish occupation off South America is a big part of the way thins played out.
@BenBurgett-dl3yo
Жыл бұрын
Hello Kevin look what came up on my U tube page.Enjoyed the video and subscribed,Keep up the good work I'll be checking in on ya.B
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Thanks for your comment. Send me a message through my website. I'd like to keep in touch.
@Charlie-hp2oh
5 ай бұрын
I like sapele more than mahogany or walnut
@rakentrail
Жыл бұрын
I have a guitar shop in NC. Mostly repair work but I do from time to time get to build. About 20 years ago a friend had two very large cherry trees that had to be removed for an addition on his house. He gave me the trunks. I also acquired a fair amount of Black Walnut and some Red spruce from the mountains. These woods do make great guitars.
@grmelectric6826
11 ай бұрын
Hey I would love to hear some sound samples of your American hardwood guitars. I’m really interested in the oak. Thanks for all the info!
@thepragmaticluthier
11 ай бұрын
You will find a video on my channel of just that.
@maplebones
8 ай бұрын
I've always been curious about white ash bodies. It's mentioned here and at the Luthier's website, but i've never seen or heard of it being used. It's very close to rock maple in hardness.
@thepragmaticluthier
8 ай бұрын
Iv'e done at least 25 guitars in White Ash. I find it to be a first class material. It bends well, works quite predictably, takes an excellent;ent finish and is stable. It makes a superior neck as well. In general, it can contribute a crispness to tone and and can be quite percussive. You can see a few pictures of White Ash guitars on my website if you care to look. www.ladueguitars.com.
@michaelgiordano3757
11 ай бұрын
Sorry if you answered this question jn the video but if I’m going to use hickory for back and sides would you recommend they be quarter or rift sawn rather then flat sawn ?
@thepragmaticluthier
11 ай бұрын
I would look at the tangential shrinkage rate for Hickory and compare that to any other species known to be useful, i.e Walnut, Cherry Hard Maple. If they are very similar, I would proceed, but if Hickory has a much higher tangential shrinkage rate, I would seek out quarter sawn material. Thanks for your question and thanks for watching my video.
@russparker1647
3 ай бұрын
The challenge is to get the consumer to buy into the fact that what might appear to them as run of the mill wood as excellent tonewood. I agree with you btw.
@thepragmaticluthier
2 ай бұрын
That would indeed be a hurtle for manufacturers large or small, but individuals like myself or possibly you, I (we) meet clients one on one and they come looking something that they can't get in a D28.
@mikeknowlden9617
Жыл бұрын
Some BBQ lovers will kill me but why not Mosquite ? Back n sides is probably a no due to size but a finger bord is a definite
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
As I see it, you should try anything that comes to mind for whatever part of the instrument it seem to be suitable and enjoy your building. There's no reason to be restricted by stodgy traditions and conventional thought. If it isn't illegal, immoral, or fattening, go ahead. AND ENJOY!
@Apillicus
Жыл бұрын
I love black locust. If you ever get around to it, mind telling me how you would go about building a guitar with it?
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
It's as simple and direct as building a guitar from any other wood, but it even seems to bend almost with impunity. There are not tricks or impediments. It makes a KILLER guitar.
@crandallwoodworking2988
8 ай бұрын
Live oak is 2680 hardness. I have a ton of it drying outside my house right now. It should be useable in a couple years. I plan on trying that out. I also have some beautiful bright redish-pink cedar already dried. That'll be my first guitar.
@red58impala
4 ай бұрын
I was thinking the same thing and wondering if someone else had commented on Southern live oak. Desert Ironwood has an even higher Janka hardness at 3260, but I'm not sure if it would be suitable for anything other than smaller projects.
@jaredsebring6129
8 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for the video! I’m currently building a parlor guitar with Black Locust back and sides. Also was thinking of using Black Locust for the bridge, trim, fingerboard and arm rest. But like you said, because of the lighter color I don’t think it will contrast well. What do you think of staining those items? I guess I’m mostly concerned about staining the fingerboard- Again, thank you for the videos, I really enjoy them!
@thepragmaticluthier
8 ай бұрын
I personally would not stain a fingerboard because your fingers and the strings will quickly rub through the stain. As I'm sure you know, that effect will be greater if a light wood is stained as opposed to a wood that is already darker, as in Walnut, possibly Cherry, etc. You mentioned Black Locust. I have seen many examples of it that may be dark enough to take a stain with pretty good results. I have, however, stained a bridge in rare circumstances with complete success. Most importantly, I think you should experiment and follow your intuitions. You may very well find techniques, results or style that is all your own.
@jaredsebring6129
8 ай бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier that was my thought as well- Have you ever lightly ran a torch over your wood to bring out the grain pattern a little better? Maybe something like that on the fretboard would help darken???
@sinistar426
Жыл бұрын
Buy what your ear tells you to buy. Not what mainstream tells you to buy. Your ear will let you know if its a "good wood".
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
And that is all the more reason to look at ANY useable specie of material.
@thomasfelty6468
10 ай бұрын
I build pretty much with Walnut, Cherry, Maple, and White Oak. Lately, I've been using Pacific Madrone for fretboards and bridges. My stash of exotics is pretty much gone and I don't plan on building with anything but domestic woods until I pass. Great Video.Thank you.
@tonyt.1596
9 ай бұрын
How stable has the Madrone proven to be? I had heard furniture makers claim the wood is very unstable and will twist and warp as it ages.
@logunsrun5
Жыл бұрын
What about Oak?
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
No reason why one shouldn't use it. Iv'e at least five of them. One is shown in the video.
@brent4uc
8 ай бұрын
Why didn't you mention the difference column and what does it represent?
@thepragmaticluthier
8 ай бұрын
As it turns out, the information in that column is meaningless. Chalk it up to my predilection for making spreadsheets do calculations just to see what happens, in this case, nothing but an irrelevant subtraction result.
@sleepyjoe8230
Жыл бұрын
What do you think about mexican woods like katalox/mexican ebony
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Other than fingerboard and bridges, I use only North American hardwoods. I don't know the first thing about Mexican timber.
@golden.lights.twinkle2329
Жыл бұрын
What about Persimmon? Surely that grows in the USA.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I've been curious about Persimmon for a long time. It dies not grow in my area of the country. If it did, I would surely have tried it by now and I hope that you do try it.
@TRICK-OR-TREAT236
Жыл бұрын
WHY NOT CONSIDER IRON WOOD ? IT WOULD MAKE A GREAT HEAVY METAL ACOUSTIC GUITAR.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Nothing is beyond consideration. In my area, Ironwood is available within 500 feet of my shop, but I have never seen a trunk more than six inches in diameter; not even large enough to get a rim out of. Too bad; it's really very nice stuff.
@lorenweatherby6520
Жыл бұрын
Hi Kevin I have access to some very old growth Manzanita. Some stumps 24"x 15" by 30" long. The Janka hardness is 2350 how suitable would it be for a guitar?
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I have seen Manzanita. The William H. Seward Mansion in Auburn, NY ha some interior trim done in it. Since it doesn't grow in my region, I have never acquired any and can't, therefore, speak to its utility, but I'm pretty certain that if it posses the stability to used in a guitar body, it would be terrific. There are so many useful North American woods not available to me that I wish i could try.
@lorenweatherby6520
Жыл бұрын
What would the ideal rough sawn dimensions be for the back and sides on a steel string guitar. I have never built a guitar. And finger board. It is really heavy would that disqualify it from being used for the neck?
@EdwardMartinsPhotography
6 ай бұрын
I just bought a solid walnut back and sides/sitka spruce top Taylor AD 12e-sb, and it is really an interesting sounding guitar. It's got the warmth of Koa on the low end with the sparkle of Maple in the treble, and the mid range of Mahogany. It's kinda hard to categorize but it sounds wonderful. Very balanced with a hint of spice. A beautiful grain and color as well.
@davidboyd1617
10 ай бұрын
Just discovered your channel and I agree wholeheartedly about the need to build as much as feasible with local woods -- it does seem to finally be gaining some ground, but it's taken decades. I remember Ted Davis talking about this some (especially about Osage Orange) back in the 80's in a couple of GAL articles and was lucky enough to visit his shop way back then.
@thepragmaticluthier
10 ай бұрын
Thanks for your comment.To put a finer point on the video, I don't advocate that the industry, especially production shops and manufacturers start using local materials. In fact, I don't care what the "cork sniffers" do and I resent the business models of the manufacturers. What I DO advocate is that luthiers question the conventions of our craft, especially those regarding material use.
@stuartbarker9373
Жыл бұрын
Janka hardness is pretty much useless as a measure for guitar building, because it's a measure of the propensity of a material to resist indentation. The straight-fibre nature of wood means that its hardness in one direction along the grain is completely different to what's measured perpendicular to the fibres. Instead of Janka, you need to take account of elasticity, plasticity and fracture point.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Janka hardness is one way of comparing any timber to another, as is specific gravity, modulus of elasticity, tangential & radial shrinkage rates, and so on. You can get really scientific about choosing wood, but In the end, you make a judgement by whatever means you prefer, and build, then evaluate.
@timesurfingalien
Жыл бұрын
Do you have any experience/thoughts using southern magnolia
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Magnolia doesn't grow in my region, but if it did, I would include it in my work.
@rhino2104
Жыл бұрын
It's funny that you post this video shortly before I bought a large piece of quartersawn, figured pecan (which is a type of hickory) to build guitars with. I've been wanting to use locally sourced woods as much as possible. Much like you, I looked at hardness and specific gravity and compared it to commonly used exotics and found that a lot of native hardwoods are almost identical on paper to the "traditional" exotics.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I would use Pecan in a heartbeat if it was available in my area. I used to work in a furniture store that sold a line of Pecan Bedroom and Dining furniture. Delightful; simply delightful.
@jorgegauthier7697
Жыл бұрын
I've come to similar conclusions over the years and have enjoyed using black locust in particular.
@MrDaveKC
Жыл бұрын
Very interesting. I saw a video from a guitar builder who used Osage Orange for a guitar build. Sounds very interesting to build out of local materials. I'm doing some amateur building and want to soon build my own acoustic, and would love to do more local woods here in the Midwest.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Interesting! Im seeing Osage Orange and hearing of it more and more. I have never used it but would really like to. at the moment, i don't know where to find it. I'll be searching.
@MrDaveKC
Жыл бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier so I'm in western Missouri, and there's a hardwood store that sells it. The big challenge is that it's hard to get big enough chunks for guitars. I saw that Showalter guitars in Virginia uses it, and in fact used American Sycamore as a top. So I can get it here, but I'm not sure how really in guitar sized pieces. I cut down a tree when I bought our current house four years ago. I've cut some of the logs down and I'm making a box body mandolin out of the wood. Hopefully it'll turn out well, and I'm pretty sure the wood is Osage Orange. It's very common along creek beds here.
@vernonknight5827
Жыл бұрын
Couldn’t you just roast the locust finger board?
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
In theory, yes. My understanding is that roasting requires an air-tight "retort" and some way to control moisture because the wood can be dried to 0% M.C. (not good) and become so brittle as to be rendered useless. In the end, sort of difficult and possible expensive to make the equipment and provide that much heat for the required time. Still, I should try.
@calinguga
11 ай бұрын
10:30 "you can tap all the fingerboards you want, as far as i'm concerned they don't mean anything to the sound of the guitar" thanks so much for saying this, it's refreshing to hear sense in this field of work.
@thepragmaticluthier
11 ай бұрын
It is fascinating that you can drop a piece of wood so that the end grain hits a concrete floor, and it will deliver a musical tone for a split second, regardless of size. Interesting phenomenon, but I think the "cork sniffers" carry this stuff way too far way too often, fingerboard tapping being a prime example.
@robertnewell5057
11 ай бұрын
Over here in the UK, some luthiers are trying to uses just UK timbers (most notable Rosie Heydenrich). The big trouble has been tops because spruce and many other softwoods grow to fast here - they are like cardboard! Western Red Cedar is great, but I've also used cedar of Lebanon and larch. For backs and sides we are better off for choice, most notably 3000 year old bog oak (costly, but worth it), sycamore (which you all call maple) and London Plane (which you all call sycamore). This last one is inexpensive, works easily, has a beautiful figure and a tone somewhere between maple and mahogany.
@thepragmaticluthier
11 ай бұрын
I am aware of Rosie Heydenrich and admire her use of materials very much. Here, we do refer to Maple as Maple and London Plane seems to be an alternate name for Sycamore. They both make terrific guitars and I agree with you, that Sycamore works very predictably and in the quartered section, is truly magnificent in appearance. Maple is commonly available here and is an important commercial specie. Sycamore, however does not enjoy nearly the same appeal. Although ubiquitous in the east, it is seldom harvested for lumber.
@robertnewell5057
11 ай бұрын
we generally refer to Maple grown in the UK as Sycamore and maple grown in the US as maple. Both acers. London Plane is a a hybrid (Platanus x hispanica); wonderful stuff @@thepragmaticluthier
@tessjuel
5 ай бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier Sycamore in Europe and sycamore in USA are not the same wood at all, they are not even closely related; in Europe sycamore is simply another name for the common European maple while American sycamores are any of four different plane tree species. European sycamore is the wood used for neck, back and sides of all high quality violin family instruments and I think we can assume that people like Stradivarius, Guarnerius and the Amatis knew a thing or two about which wood to choose.
@sidweazel2883
Жыл бұрын
Really interesting and thought provoking, thank you for making this video
@andrewdarnley4608
Жыл бұрын
I support your approach 100% on timber choice and worldwide forestry practices. I'm building in Australia and IMHO I have found endemic species that perfectly replace the timbers that have always been considered the *only* species a guitar can be built from.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
That's good to know. i hope you find many, many locally available woods to work with.
@octoBadger
11 ай бұрын
I'm also in Australia, I have some absoutely beautiful red and yellow flamed Mackay cedar - tap tone is very similar other European cedar tops, sounds lovely, looks unreal. Tasmanian Blackwood, Myrtle, flamed Silver Ash for backs and sides. There are loads of good local woods over here IMO. Just have to shop around
@edt.5118
10 ай бұрын
What are some of the alternative tonewoods for ukulele?
@thepragmaticluthier
10 ай бұрын
You could use any wood that you care to, provided that it offers the structural integrity and stability required. In short, as long as it's free of knots, cracks and defects and is properly dry.
@vernonknight5827
Жыл бұрын
My motto is American Tonwoods, American made!
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
That's something to think about while we're driving our cars, American made from imported parts, using phones and computers made in China, watching televisions made abroad, while enjoying a nice cold Corona. Makes you wonder doesn't it?
@tomehCanada
Жыл бұрын
Very sound logic. Great looking samples. I'd love to try some. Where are located sir?
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I'm in the Northeastern United States. Wherever you are, I'm sure that there are many of the same, other many other species that will make excellent and beautiful instruments.
@tomehCanada
Жыл бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier I'm in what is called South Western Ontario and yes we have all of the same spieces to choose from. Nice looking work.
@ronaldrice4085
Жыл бұрын
Thanks great info. I am retired. wood work guitar player from Michigan live in Thailand planning to build 12 string have one now a Guild 12 guild 6 and a Starfire Guild. going to use what ever I can find here thanks again
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
Best of luck! I'm sure your effort will be rewarded with a terrific instrument.
@johncalkin7423
3 ай бұрын
I began building with birch because it was the cheapest hardwood at the local lumberyard. I remain fond of birch, but I moved up to cherry as my chops developed, then walnut. I wrote an article recommending cherry in American Lutherie magazine in 1991. By the time lumber is rendered into instrument wood we can judge whether or not it will be stable enough for guitars, regardless of grain flow. I love the exotics too, but it is way more fun to track down and build from N. American varieties. As you say, it’s strange that they are just now being recognized as wonderful instrument woods. Tradition and closed minds are powerful forces among musicians and luthiers alike. Thank you for your videos. I always enjoy them.
@tedrowland7800
Жыл бұрын
Okay, I'm going to try saying this from my heart, and be as honest as I can. I have NOT built a guitar yet. I must have tried at least 300 guitars that are commercially built, anywhere from stores in TN, MI FLA, LA, with prices from $500.00 to 7,000.00. I would put aside the looks, and the sweetest sounding to "My Ears", was always some kind of solid Rosewood and Spruce, (or other pines). The Walnut guitars, (that I played), sounded like the notes fell out of the sound holes, instead of having any projection. Koa, (except for a solid Koa electric 12 string that was so heavy it made my shoulder hurt ), I experienced a lack of projection as well.. I was told that the "sound board", (top), was the most important. I tried a solid maple acoustic 12 string, that the entire guitar was maple, and was not satisfied. (Beautiful guitar as far as looks and feel of the neck). It is NOT the look, (although we all love a beautiful guitar), but the sound. I am a medically retired carpenter/cabinetmaker. I am going to try 2 different kit guitars, as I put together more "luthier specific" tools. I should mention that I have lost the right leg below the knee, (NO SYMPATHY), as an explanation, so that some will understand I must build from a wheelchair. I will have to use wood already thickness sawn and sanded. My work will be in my house and I can finish sand and spray lacquer, glue up ect. I love the beautiful guitars you are working on, and maybe someday I can use those woods as well. I now live in MI
@ThePopeDr
11 ай бұрын
Just saw this. Liked at 1:28 subscribed at 2:01
@thepragmaticluthier
11 ай бұрын
Thank you. I'm frequently perceived as radical, dismissive of standard practice or contrary and sometimes it ruffles some feathers. I like that.
@hampshirepiano6383
Жыл бұрын
You ain't kidding, there is fine wood here in NE only sufficient ageing time is the problem. We have wormy Chestnut and some clear also, it makes very good backs. Nice walnut!
@DiegoDee
3 ай бұрын
On the one hand, I like the aesthetics of tropical woods, on the other hand, we in Europe and you in the USA have wonderful wood right on our doorstep. Look at what wonderful wood maple produces, or plum. You have a great wood in the US that you didn't mention: Osage Orange. I discovered this by chance a few years ago, immediately fell in love with it and was shocked that it was often only used in the oven and so I saved me some sets. Here in Germany there has been an effort for a long time to build instruments with local wood. I have the impression that acceptance is very slow and that a change in thinking has begun, but such "eco" guitars still have an image problem. Australians, on the other hand, are pretty radically focused on sustainable and local wood.
@tomallen8527
Жыл бұрын
I am a new builder. Thank you. This is a great encouragement for me to use local woods for my guitars.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
You're very welcome. Get good luck with your building. Send me some pictures?
@ChrisOttoSTL
Жыл бұрын
I totally agree. I think there are a couple things at play in the desire for "exotic woods'. Manufacturers like to use "premium woods' because they feel they can charge more, and it's an easy way to create the belief that one model if "better' than the other. The one with rosewood back and sides must be "better" than the model with mahogany back and sides, right? At least walnut is becoming more accepted as a quality wood for back and sides. On the consumer side, beyond the fact that most guitar players are very conservative in regards to all aspects of guitar making. 'Martin don't use hickory", they might say. There is also an unfamiliarity with many domestic tone woods. When I had a baritone ukulele made for me, by Bonanza Ukuleles, Big Falls, MN, using a cherry top and walnut back and sides, I was a little nervous about how the cherry would sound, (but I trusted the luthier). It turned out great, with a lovely tone, that has continued to improve over the past few years. I had never played an instrument made from cherry, so it required a but of a leap of faith.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I appreciate your comment about a Cherry top. It has motivated me to build a couple experiments with deciduous tops.
@ChrisOttoSTL
Жыл бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier I hope it goes well.
@Mental_hygenics
5 ай бұрын
Thank you. I just flame treated plywood and used stainless steel for my guitar sides. Ive realized tone comes from so many places. Thank you for the information!
@mooseymoose
Жыл бұрын
The main missing factor you overlook is modulus of elasticity. It determines the propagation rate of impulses through the material. Impulse response is EVERYTHING. Density has much less to do with guitar tone.
@mooseymoose
Жыл бұрын
Of course there is a correlation to density but not as much as might be suspected. I’d wager the openness of the grain has an impact as well, since wood is isotropic in regards to wave propagation.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I admire your expertise.
@mooseymoose
Жыл бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier I've been doing woodworking for a looooong time :) Not a luthier but the physics of wood are a longstanding interest. Been playing guitar for 35 years too so the properties of what makes my guitars tick is a subset of that interest. I come from a line of scientists and engineers. :)
@mooseymoose
Жыл бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier Also for the purpose of luthiery the longitudinal moduli are the most meaningful. I don't know of anyone who builds end grain or cross grain guitars! LOL. Also apparently wood is technically orthotropic, not isotropic. My mistake, it's been a while.
@rustyriley51
Жыл бұрын
Hedge (Osage Orange, Bois D’Arc). Janka hardness of 2620, SG of .86. Every fence line from dust bowl Kansas and Oklahoma cover in it.
@alexmeleshenko4834
Жыл бұрын
Interesting and I agree--for a steel string the options are soo many--but for a classical the marketplace is defined for a rosewood guitar---the tradition goes back Torres ---a classical guitar made out of a alternative wood will be a uphill battle to sell it for a similar price of a comparable rosewood guitar. Also I wish I could have heard some of the guitars in this video.
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
It is true that the (serious) classical guitar community seems to be retentively adhered to the Rosewoods and to a much lesser extent, highly figured Maple. While there may be some slowly evolving acceptance of other materials, it's all okay. While I admire truly fine concert guitars and the skill of those who play them, let the cork sniffers have their way. It's common to equate "new or different" with inferiority.
@nicholasgeorge7825
9 ай бұрын
True but Torres used maple , cypress, 4 piece backs, whatever he had, teak even. C F Martin followed the classical guitar tradition, even using Spanish cedar for minor parts or necks sometimes. Martin still does.
@dave160377
Жыл бұрын
This video earned my subscription! Osage orange was mentioned earlier, but also fruitwoods are an option worth exploring. Plum and mulberry have a hardness of 1500 and 1680 respectively. Both can have stunning grain and are worth looking into.
@nicholasgeorge7825
Жыл бұрын
That's sounds incorrect for mulberry, at least red. Its not that hard in my experience. For a much harder wood that resembles red mulberry try black locust. Apple can be pretty hard, and dogwood is probably the harder than any of the fruitwoods. Osage orange is an exception but its not really a fruitwood. Unfortunately no North American species can get close to the hardness of some of the tropical species.
@abydosianchulac2
Жыл бұрын
I want to be where you are if you have plum trees large enough for any part of a guitar
@golden.lights.twinkle2329
Жыл бұрын
@@nicholasgeorge7825 Osage Orange is definitely a fruitwood. Have you seen the fruits that grow on that tree?
@nicholasgeorge7825
Жыл бұрын
@@golden.lights.twinkle2329 Yeah, thanks for that reply. You're right, they're pretty amazing, like lumpy grapefruit, and I think cattle eat them, but humans can't. I don't put it in the fruitwood category, because I think of fruitwoods as rather fine textured without too much pores. You know, like apple and pear. It looks more like black locust, which has similar yellow coloring, though not as yellow, more greenish, but hard, heavy, strong and stiff. Both would make excellent acoustic guitar back and side woods, and I know that they both have been used to good effect. Red mulberry, which has to be technically a fruitwood does look similar, but is much softer. Best of success in your woodworking endeavors.
@nicholasgeorge7825
Жыл бұрын
@@abydosianchulac2 There's an ornamental plum variety that grows to around 2 foot diameter and 60 feet. Latin name is prunus cerasifera "altapupurea," Common name: purple leaf plum. I saw a huge one cut down once, but I haven't seen or handled the wood. I'm sure it's nice.
@yomommaahotoo264
3 ай бұрын
This is a very good tutorial.
@thepragmaticluthier
3 ай бұрын
Thank you. I hope you view and enjoy my other videos.
@walterrider9600
Жыл бұрын
thank you and great point . osage orange is hard also at 2620 is it not big enough to make guitars ?
@thepragmaticluthier
Жыл бұрын
I have seen a few guitars made with Osage Orange. It is just as viable as any material out there and I celebrate anyone using woods that are "off the beaten path".
@walterrider9600
Жыл бұрын
@@thepragmaticluthier thank you
@Selmer1430P
6 ай бұрын
Using your advice I made my first ever top. A four piece from a cedar fence post, and a cherry fingerboard from a trim scrap. I put it on an old Harmony parlor that I bought at a thrift store for $40 that had a collapsed top. It looks beautiful tho I haven't strung it yet. Just the experience was extremely fun and addicting. Thank you for all your inspirational videos!
@deorotonewoodmill
Жыл бұрын
I just wanted to touch base and say hello. 4 years ago I started a milling local tonewoods (I'm in Southern Ontario)- black walnut, american cherry, locust, butternut, etc. to offer rainforest alternates to the luthier community. Thanks for your video!
@lyndamcardle4123
Жыл бұрын
I can't argue with your premise ! For me, you can't beat maple for its bright sound and tone. I have guitars and ukuleles of all types but, walnut, cedar and maple make lovely tonal soundboards - never mind back and sides. I also have spruce, mahogany, koa, as well as acacia, bubinga, sapele, rosewood and countless others. I have yet to note any instrument made from cherry, willow and ash but, I'm willing to try !
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