As someone who has played drums, self taught for more than half of my life now (25) and never played to a click and am having to realize that I was absolutely hindering my performance and tempo control for almost 2 decades. It is a skill, a tool, and a enhancement to your music. It was from a place of ego and ignorance that I had forgone using in-ears and a metronome and now I realize how bad I am at keeping a tempo. I thought it added a uniqueness to the songs I recorded, to prove it wasn't made on a computer but looking back it just sounded like a bunch of amateurs making a song. Don't be me.
@DominiqueHeine
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing! Really wish more people would have this insight
@rudygracia5573
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah,Agree.I never used metronomes.While living in Nashville,one of the main things bands were looking for in a drummer,was one who had"Good Meter'.Good sense of time.I can follow a click well,but I hate it.I'm blown away by drummers that can keep an awesome groove,throw in advanced licks,right on the click!(ex;Girlfriend/A.Lavigne).J.Freese is a good example.
@industrialdrummer44
2 жыл бұрын
Nailed it.
@hazardeur
2 жыл бұрын
well, the best thing still is to learn to play with a metro so much that you can play without one. still can't beat the feeling of a good drummer that can push/drag when he wants deliberately and not because he didn't play enough. if everybody plays to a click like these days, it can sound pretty sterile and "griddy"
@johannjohann6523
Жыл бұрын
But as you improve your skill level you should not need one. Being able to "feel" the tempo inside you. And always starting off slowly learning new music, and then increasing the time signature until you get to the actual tempo of the song. See above, I wrote a pretty good (I think) note about click tracks. Johann. (I'm 50 now, been playing drums since 16, but also played trumpet and french horn in band in school, plus keyboards, and several years of guitars lessons. To be a well rounded musician it is important to be able to read and understand the music, even if you are just playing the drums. Which means learning another instrument. All the other instruments I took lessons, but on drums, like you I am self taught. Which will help you develop a unique individual sound (and not one like your drum teacher). But I had played the other instruments for a number of years before playing drums, so when I started on drums I was already ahead of the game with my musical understanding and skill. And I'm lucky, that even when I played the other instruments, I didn't have to "count" out the music. Same with drums. I have some kinda internal "metronome" that allows me to be rock solid with my time signature, without really thinking about it. That said, I went to college and chose a life of an accountant instead of a drummer/sound engineer. My greatest regret in life. But it's okay cause I still play drums (have a 7 piece Pearl Vision all Birch drumset. various Zildjian and Sabian cymbals - all 80/20 Bronze though). So I say to you, if you have the passion in you for music, follow it. You only get one life, so DO WHAT YOU LOVE ! (and then it isn't "work") :) Something I learned late in life, so I pass that along whenever I can. Remember one thing, to be a "good" drummer, it is important first to SOUND good! Pleasing to the ears. Well tuned, and miked drums. Then through time, as long as you continue to practice, the technical side of things will fall into place. But sounding good is KEY! (not how big a drum set you have or technical you are. trust me on this). check out above, hope you get this, and Peace my friend! Keep on Rockin'!!! Johann
@michaelballdrums
2 жыл бұрын
In a previous band, we were set to play a show and, literally, 4 hours before we were supposed to take the stage opening for David Ellefson, our bassist's wife went into labor. Needless to say, he wasn't at the show. Because we had a click and backing tracks for every member, we were able to play that show as if he was with us on stage and it went flawlessly. I've been a die-hard fan of clicks and tracks since. Also, try playing drums, running tracks, orchestrating the show, acting as the band's MC, and singing lead and backup vocals while following a click. Welcome to the life of a modern drummer.
@the_wilson_smh
Жыл бұрын
Damn that's really cool to hear! (I'd have printed out a picture of their face and stuck it on a mic stand too lmao)
@Kekoapono
2 жыл бұрын
I’d just like to add from a classical musician’s perspective: sure, there are great ensembles out there who could perform some pieces without a conductor. However, the best performances will always have a conductor leading the group. That is to say, even great classical musicians benefit greatly from being led by a conductor; the best classical musicians are no less real musicians if they are led by conductors.
@M.Holland
2 жыл бұрын
…and for Film scoring the conductor is mostly wearing some headphones with a click as well. Otherwise, he couldn’t keep up with the scenes….
@michaausleipzig
2 жыл бұрын
Great comparison!
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
@@M.Holland I actually didn't know that!
@luisnunes3863
2 жыл бұрын
Well said!
@333baxter333
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah but conductors can vary the tempo on the go according to the piece. Machines generally don't. Varying tempo livens up the music
@Dosenpruegel
2 жыл бұрын
For me its quite easy: Are the tracks used to support and grade up / fill up the actual live perfomances of the musicians to somewhat near the album version - good. If tracks are used to mimic perfomances like some pop artists did hillariously funny in the past - not good.^^ Although there's a picky little Dosenknüppel inside me who thinks "why can't they just bring more musicians and a real orchestra on stage, it would be epic as hell", it should be clear that this would'nt be possible and affordable for the biggest part of bands/artists. I think people don't want to loose their (selfmade?) magic illusions of perfect and unfailable musicians and try to defend it by any means. I'm thinking of an interesting way to teach people about the benefit of tracks and playback could be to record a live show/song with and without those in comparison. Or even show people how a song from a album would sound without multi tracking and stuff, just the main tracks.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
That's actually a cool idea. I may be able to reach out to a band I know that uses tracks and see if I can get the files for that, because I think the difference would really blow a lot of people's minds in terms of the "fullness" of the sound. All the bands I've ever toured with can play, absolutely no problem. But the tracks that are there are to beef up the sound, and if they were gone I think people would be surprised by how much of that full sound might be gone.
@Deilwynna
2 жыл бұрын
"why can't they just bring more musicians and a real orchestra on stage, it would be epic as hell" a few bands have done that a few times at least, like epica, galneryus and dream theater but generally they use a backing track of only the orchestral part because an orchestra is a bit expensive to bring on tour. most metal bands with synths uses programmed synth backing track instead of having someone play the synth live but, iron maiden even though they arent that heavy on synth use, they dont use any backing track at all, just floor wedges for monitoring their own sound and a touring session musician on synth for the songs needing it (such as seventh son of a seventh son)
@IlkkaPrusi
2 жыл бұрын
@@Deilwynna "why can't they just bring more musicians and a real orchestra on stage, it would be epic as hell" It would be hilarious* trying to fit a whole orchestra onto a stage in the clubs and places many bands really play in. Many bands play on small venues while on tour and the festivals that happen a few times are the only places where they could fit a larger orchestra with them. And then there's the costs involved.. Edit: *hilarious as in it would be physically impossible to fit that many musicians at same time on the stage.
@Andy_from_de
2 жыл бұрын
and even IF bands do performances with a symphonic orchestra on stage - who do you see waving a baton at them? A conductor.
@coder4liberty
2 жыл бұрын
@@Deilwynna imagine being the one who has to justify paying two or three people (like a horn section) on a full tour for two or three songs.
@WardenOfSouls
2 жыл бұрын
People that say Bands that are using click/tracks are no musicians must be people that have no professional experience with music at all. As a Musician myself i can tell you a few facts about this: 1. If you dont have your own recording studio (which mosts bands dont have) you have to pay a Studio, often by hour or day. Using a Click Track to record makes it so much easier for everyone involved and you gain tons of time which saves you a tooooon of money. 2. Im a Drummer and so it's my job to keep time, which doesnt sound thaaat hard for someone who doesnt know but as Tank said, most other musicians in the band follow me for timing, and i want to add something: It's not just taking a lot of concentration to stay on the click in a live setting, it gets even harder when one of your bandmates gets a little off time cause if you just stay on the click in that case you will loose tons of dynamic, so my job becomes "reeling" that bandmate back into the timing. Which is like: I gotta Speed up / slow down slightly to get him back on my time and then slowly guide him back to the click and thats insanely difficult cause you have to know what time he went to and how to get back to the click. If you have Tracks running in the background, synths, backing vocals etc. You have just a few seconds to do that or it will sound off. You need so much focus for that but it's a cool feeling if you nail that. 3. When you write a Song you have a Vision how it sounds, how it feels. And sometimes you simply dont have enough musicians or isntruments in your band to completly achieve that, so adding synths or some additional vocals in backing-tracks for Live Performance is not "cheeping out" or making it "easy" for yourself, it actually makes it much harder to play live cause your margin of error slims down , and i can't stress that enough, MASSIVELY. If you dont use any of that and you for some reason slip of time... you just find a new time a few bpm faster or slower and 99% of the audience wont even notice. But also... it is something we musicians add for YOU guys, so we get the Feeling / Message, dynamics to you the listener in a more enjoyable way. 4. My exception would be: Songs that are patched together which sound super crazily skilled but you never can play it live cause you lack the skills to do so. Im not a big fan of that and that does definetly exist, but even that.. i wont really judge or say: thats not music! As long as it makes someone happy who cares? So for me, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with using backing tracks or clicks. Especially clicks are soo important. Played a lot live without but i wouldnt want to miss clicks in studio scenarios. Thanks Tank for talking about this :)
@thesuperdak7224
2 жыл бұрын
I have been a fan of The Warning for several years, and I can tell you that they make absolutely no secret of their use of click and backing tracks -- Pau, the drummer, even put out a video back in 2020 of what they use, Ableton Live 10 running on a laptop mounted next to her drums.
@sgtmm
2 жыл бұрын
Pau is one of the best up-and-coming drummers of recent years IMO. Singing, songwriting, and drumming are all top class
@markjames8664
2 жыл бұрын
They can however do a fine job without the computer if they have to, as they did with Kool Aid Kids the other night in Mexico City, when Ableton had “a mind of its own”.
@thesuperdak7224
2 жыл бұрын
@@markjames8664 Oh no question. It's just that throwing computer skills on top of everything else makes her a polymath in my book.
@Rabidshore
2 жыл бұрын
Just so everyone knows. Clay Aeschliman confirmed that they tried switching body packs, but it was an RF issue. So on the drum throne he heard nothing but static, hence why they did the slap-metronome
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
Ah, thanks for that information! Totally makes sense.
@drumaddict89
Жыл бұрын
i think drummers should not use RF IEM ... do not see a sense in it. but hey, everyone can use what is available to someone 👍
@SunnyHF-nf4bc
10 ай бұрын
@@drumaddict89 Same. I’ve tried it. I probably had garbage quality RF IEMs, but still, I got so much interference. It’s wired IEMs or nothing for me right now.
@KardavoxAcademy
2 жыл бұрын
4:00 aaaah that sound brings back some nostalgic feelings haha. As for the polyphia thing, that seems like an absolutely genius, clutch move. Like you I don't know the deep specifics, but it looks like a solid way to adapt in the moment and keep the show going. Its crazy that something as simple as click tracks can be controversial.
@Ovfrost
2 жыл бұрын
How is this even a discussion? I thought every drummer plays on click, it's a very natural enhancement of your live performance. If anyone can't handle their parts, the click wouldn't make any difference, so calling it cheating is beyond me. As for Polyphia - precise groove is essential to their music, so I can understand if the drummer relies on click more.
@seansterling5322
2 жыл бұрын
Most do. Some really talented individuals do not. I am not dissing any on those that do. Do what you need to make the performance great. Danny Carrey of Tool is famous for not using a click track while maintaining odd tempos and shifting tempos exceedingly well, live
@Zanragul
2 жыл бұрын
same discussion with using pedal triggers. as if they make you play 200bpm 16th without years of practice.
@grim..sentinel9500
2 жыл бұрын
Pantera never used click. Slipknot w/ Joey never used clock either. You can tell because they modulate the tempo based on different parts of the song
@Tuck7326
2 жыл бұрын
Drummers are not really musicians. 😅
@grim..sentinel9500
2 жыл бұрын
@@Tuck7326 Danny Carey has entered the chat lol
@sociallyineptclownprincech8731
2 жыл бұрын
100% they are if they use click tracks and pre record. I do performances as an actor in musicals, and I also perform as a haunted house actor in speaking roles. In musicals while singing you need to stay on not only key but on beat and one of the tricks I use is to listen to the orchestra to keep myself on track. You sing along with the beat that helps you keep time. If you start getting off beat it ruins the song, throws off the orchestra and can hurt the show. In a haunted house, when you are in a speaking role you often have a preprogrammed room. You hit the timer when the group walks in and you have anywhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes to fill with talking and acting while you wait for the preprogrammed items to go off, for instance a door slamming shut which keys you that you have 10 more seconds until the smoke blasts into the room which signals to start the end dialogue. If im off from ANY of those ques my dialogue, which is crafted around those ques to provide the best performance I can, falls apart and ruins the show. TLDR; In the end being able to perform with a click track or backing tracks, and especially what these two dudes did here are commendable in my position and it 100% kept the show going.
@th3voice
2 жыл бұрын
The answer seems obvious. Much like these people who use amplifiers, speakers, electric guitars, acoustic guitars they didn't build themselves, and the biggest cheats and fraudsters of all - the people who build the guitars themselves, but out of wood OTHER people chopped for them... they're all fakes. REAL musicians use bones of animals they killed with their bare hands, as well as self-harvested sticks and rocks. If they are weak and pitiful musicians, it's acceptable to use their self-harvested sticks and rocks to make a primitive hammer and harvest tree bark, and learn flintnapping and stonecraft to SHAPE rocks you find, maybe. Mostly, though, all that is just a crutch for people who rely on SOCIETY to furnish them with whatever they need to create cool sounds, which is why I only listen to rock music. You know, with rocks banging together.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@jimbuechler9546
2 жыл бұрын
Kinda like banging coconuts together to make horse sounds 🤣
@kicorse
2 жыл бұрын
Except those bone-playing "musicians" are using bones grown by animals. If they were real musicians, they'd obviously be amputating their own limbs instead.
@th3voice
2 жыл бұрын
@@kicorse Naah that's just for the death rock/bone bands, and I find it very gimmicky.
@luisendymion9080
2 жыл бұрын
LMAO that was a good one
@jojothejelly6623
2 жыл бұрын
That drum tech deserves some type of award what an absolute G. Also anyone who whines about drum tracks/tracks knows nothing about music/live music
@rudygracia5573
2 жыл бұрын
I Agree.Thank God I'm old,and I never had to mess with in ears or click,or tracks,y'all can take it from here...and WE had Instrumental solo's during songs!!(Old man rant.."back in my day...haha!)
@neilpatrickhairless
Жыл бұрын
I had this exact argument a month ago on Instagram on the butt pat video. Some random dude was saying that this world class conga player that is in his 80's he knows personally never uses a click track, that actual drummers and percussionists never use one because they are supposed to be the metronome themselves and using one means you can't keep time. The drummer in the video tried to explain how they use it to keep in sync with the light show and effects they use live so that the show is consistent and the guy basically was like "real musicians don't use light shows and effects either" so I have no idea what the hell this guy listens to or what bands he goes and sees play live but it can't be much of anything more than someone banging on something around a campfire near a cave somewhere
@zacharymicah
2 жыл бұрын
Think about this, Electric Callboy has all those synth parts in their songs but no live synth player so they use those synth tracks live or else the songs fall flat without them while on top of that the drummer has a click in his ear to keep himself and the rest of the band on time.
@nhenghali1916
2 жыл бұрын
Powerwolf has no Bassist. One of their guitarists plays the bass in studio. This recording is then used un the album and also live as backing track. Why didn't the hire a live bassist? Because the like the band and the chemistry within the band and don't want to change it.
@addisonmayrock
2 жыл бұрын
As a teen I couldn't play to a click or a backing track, so I would argue that clicks and tracks "kill the feel" of the music. I was posturing because I couldn't do it, which is the case with most people who complain about bands using backing tracks. Later, I learned to play to a metronome to record better albums. It was damn hard at first, but I learned. In my early twenties, the band I was in started using backing tracks to play live because it allowed us to sound fuller. Playing to a backing track was even more challenging to learn because I had to temper all that energy and adrenaline to stay on time , not speed up, and keep things tight. Point is, playing to a click, or a backing track is not easy. It's a skill that takes time and effort to develop, and I'd argue now that if you can't play to a click or a backing track, you're not a real musician.
@epicadventureturtle1363
2 жыл бұрын
As a software developer I learned that customers don't care about your code, they care about the product and the problems it solves. In the same way, people don't care about how fancy of a drummer you are, they care about the music. The haters don't understand that, that's why their stuff doesn't sell.
@perfectallycromulent
9 ай бұрын
popular music has never been about how well you play an instrument, and the same sort of people have been whining about that for decades.
@stupid5pin
2 жыл бұрын
I've had this discussion with some non-musician friends lately. We were talking about a band like Metallica, who back in the '90s when we all first saw them, they were playing at whatever tempo they feel like, but now because of the production elements of the show - lights, video wall, etc. - they HAVE to play everything in time to keep that show from, as you put it here, falling apart. That said, even being in a local band, the topic of using midi to automate my pedals has come up in conversation at band practice. We're already on IEMs, so it's not at all out of the realm of possibility for us, it's just a matter of if we want to do it or not.
@KfromShC
2 жыл бұрын
Of course they are - in my experience, drummers who struggle playing on click are not the ones their respective band can rely on.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree.
@zvolencan1
2 жыл бұрын
Great topic! Looking forward to it!
@jmlopez5260
2 жыл бұрын
You should try to interview this legendary Chris!!! This content with the inside view of the music business is so tasty man!! Cheers from Chile!
@floriyoo1036
2 жыл бұрын
My Band and I are using clicktracks and our show kinda relies on them. Being only four people in the band, we cannot play synths, strings, third guitar tracks, FX like risers, bassdrops etc on our own. Clicktracks/Backingtracks are a natural enhancement of liveshows and everyone shitting on them clearly has not used them before.
@wewantthecup
2 жыл бұрын
Are musicians that "use a conductor" really musicians? Are adults that rely on alarm clocks to wake up for work really adults? Are Content Creators that use free platforms with free infinite uploads really Content Creators? Are guitar players that use electricity really guitar players? Are singers that use microphones really singers? Okay, I made my point.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
I literally used your first point as an example in this video. 😂
@GaryHolloway-810
2 жыл бұрын
That is a awesome comment. Kudos to you.😁👌
@wewantthecup
2 жыл бұрын
@@TankTheTech Haha, nice. Looking forward to the video. I am kind of shocked the in-ears don't fail more often than they do. The big productions must use Duracell 🤷♂️😂
@careylymanjones
2 жыл бұрын
"Are singers that use microphones really singers?" Opera singers generally don't use microphones. If you ever stand next to an opera singer when she cuts loose, you will never forget it. Opera singers learn specific techniques (singer's formant, squillo) to let their voice cut through the orchestra and be clearly audible WITHOUT amplification. kzitem.info/news/bejne/t3ht0o2lj5Sae4I
@martindonat3249
2 жыл бұрын
i like the arlarmclock quote best , must mean that im a child at hart 🤣🤣
@roberthowell4549
2 жыл бұрын
On the production side of things (the sound system and lighting) many higher end tours have the lighting changes controlled by a time code. This ensures that lighting cues happen at the exact right spot every night. Guitar effects changes can now be controlled by time code as well as pyro and video effects. It all has to sync up night after night. How does that happen? Every system on the same click, that AMAZING show you see and remember forever does not just accidentally happen. It takes many many talented and hard working people to make it happen. Not just the band.
@rudygracia5573
2 жыл бұрын
Brings to mind a quote by Mickey in one of the Rocky movies;"For a 45 minute fight,you have to train 45 thousand minutes!!That goes for ALL of us;For a 2-4 hour show,we've trained for YEARS!
@mikeselectricstuff
2 жыл бұрын
I've been to many gigs where you see the drummer wear headphones for a few tracks - I like that they only use tracks where necessary, so they have the freedom to vary things on other songs. Technology-wise, I wonder if anyone has experimented with a dynamic click track, which adjusts the playback tempo by syncing to the drummer's actual playing, rather than the other way round - that could be pretty interesting ( as long as it works flawlessly - could go really bad if not!)
@pro-v7500
2 жыл бұрын
You can trigger a backing track with drum pads (aka triggers). But you are still in the same situation unless you chop the backing track up into small parts and have to re-trigger it multiple times. Problem with a dynamic tempo in the back track is that you will start to fuck with the perceived pitch of the track. Like the whistle in playing god: if they we’re slower in tempo and the whistle track was slowed down to match then the pitch is going to seem like it’s lower. It’s not like a live instrument that plays the same pitch/note, but just longer or slower.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
I've never actually seen that in my touring experience. To me, it wouldn't make sense to take headphones off even if you were just using click/tracks for a song or two, because that's where your monitors would be coming from.
@nielsdegroot9138
2 жыл бұрын
@@pro-v7500 With digital sound processing it's not that hard to adjust the playback speed, and at the same time correct the pitch so that stays the same. There may be some differences in attack, decay, etc, but: it's probably background music/sounds so less noticable with all the other sounds going on, and you're not trying to correct for a doubling in speed or something big. It'll be a few percent maybe. It'll probably break down when a band intentionally decides to speed up a song. 😀 Manual triggering at a few select points in a song might be fine, depending on what the track controls.
@squarebarrel
2 жыл бұрын
I remember that Dave Grohl telling a story about Kurt and the producers of Nevermind made him record with a click because he kept wasting time and tape because he was all over the place. Now he’s one of the greatest drummers of all time.
@Okurka.
Жыл бұрын
Even Lars Ulrich is a better drummer than Dave Grohl.
@MikeMeierJapan
2 жыл бұрын
I didn’t want to comment as you successfully covert all and explained it well. But when you mentioned ‚what is a conductor do?‘ … well done! Most people don’t even know or realize that. Keep on the good work!
@jarl_tormund
2 жыл бұрын
Imagine telling Tuomas Holopainen that all his orchestral arrangements makes him a less musician because it's playback I mean I tend to arrange a lot in the music I make as well so this topic is actually quite fun to follow
@TerranigmaQuintet
2 жыл бұрын
At least he plays all the keyboard synths himself hehe
@chriswilkinson7636
Жыл бұрын
Nightwish couldn't exactly take an orchestra and choir out on tour with them.
@jarl_tormund
Жыл бұрын
@Chris Wilkinson not every tour no. But I'm sure they could arrange a special tour for it. Other have done it, I don't see why it would be impossible
@chriswilkinson7636
Жыл бұрын
@@jarl_tormund Yes they could do it as a one off special show, I think Within Temptation did something like that a couple of years ago, but taking a full orchestra on tour would be very difficult and expensive.
@jarl_tormund
Жыл бұрын
@Chris Wilkinson I belive dimmu borgir did a mini tour with an orchestra, and played on Wacken as well
@GeekFurious
10 ай бұрын
A long time ago my band played in a setting where the drummer couldn't hear us at all and his monitors went out, so he just played from memory and we struggled to keep up with his tempo because it was all over the place. We sure would have loved in-ear monitors and a click.
@OfVirtue
2 жыл бұрын
Context is key. If you play a style that is more technical and want to be as precise as possible, click tracks/metronome/cues are a great way to keep yourself and the band on time. Some other styles lend themselves to being more open to sudden shifts/tempo changes/starts and stops so it’s better to play without them! You already addressed the member thing with some studio parts 😂 Can’t all be Slipknot with 9 dudes!
@pyewacket24
2 жыл бұрын
I kind of thought that I knew what in-ears were used for but wasn't really sure, so this was fascinating. I've been watching live bands since 1982 and don't see why anyone would have an issue with musicians using the latest technology, whatever that happens to be. Live music evolves.
@coder4liberty
2 жыл бұрын
It's not just for tracks actually. It may facilitate that but they also save your hearing. It used to be that volume wars would erupt on stage between guitar players and the other band members because the guitar players would make the case that they had to be loud to get the sounds they used but everyone else couldn't hear themselves and would also turn up. It got to be ridiculous where stage volumes would cause hearing loss. Guitar players would sometimes try guitar speakers put in isolation boxes with microphones inside but they don't sound very good. It did make it so they could have them as loud as they wanted to. Technology marches along however and now we have in-ear monitors and guitar gear that sounds good without the volume and the loudest thing on stage is the drums. Everyone gets to hear just what they want to hear at the vol;ume they want it.
@tyleraardema6430
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t know man, I’ve got this opinion I formed from thin air with no prior experience and I’m 100% sure it’s fool proof. *rolls eyes into oblivion*
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
😂😂😂
@PalmelaHanderson
2 жыл бұрын
When playing live, it's imperative that you are able to hear what you're playing. You lose the ability to hear, you lose the ability to play. It's just like any singer you've ever seen that goes wildly off pitch when their monitors aren't loud enough or their in-ear goes out or whatever. A click track is just another way for you to hear what you're doing, it doesn't make what you're doing easier. You still have to be able to play it.
@Buffaloheart68
2 жыл бұрын
Tracks are no different than when I watched a reactor explaining Bruce Dickinsons hand gestures in Hallowed Be thy Name. In days before in ear monitors he was using hand gestures because he couldn't hear himself to get the tech to do whatever it was he needed to do. Poor wording I know, it's been awhile since I saw that. Tracks just help
@owenwhitefoot
Жыл бұрын
As someone in a band that uses clicks and tracks etc, it brings our live shows to a whole other level. Firstly, we don't have a bassist, so we record that ourselves and put that on tracks, we also have a lot of ambient, synth type sounds which we also put on there. It also helps as our style of music is very technical, so it does help to have a click going in our ears. But we can still play the music without it all, flawlessly, and we have done multiple times, but the addition of the bass and all the other noises just takes the performance up a notch and it really makes us sound better.
@jonaslindberg5482
2 жыл бұрын
This is why I love your channel. Thank you Master Tank for another lovely education time. Loved it and want to learn more.
@frankroos1167
2 жыл бұрын
I seem to remember that drummers that could actually do an entire show without support of something like a click were rare even when the technology wasn't there. So, to all who want "real musicians only", they will be very short on options. And as Tank says, it's not about "real" it's about show. If a show becomes better by using some support, I think that is fine. But if it means I am paying for live music and I am listening to a studio recording, that is not fine. I can listen to studio recordings at home. It's a matter of finding the balance. And I can totally see how the balance has to be heavily towards the live side. But still, if you want it all "real", you are likely to end up with very little choices, or shows that totally suck. Pick your poison.
@caligo7918
2 жыл бұрын
Storytime: In the early 2000s i was assistent sound engineer at a decently large convention. As main act, we had Blood, a japanese visual metal band. Friday morning, time for their rehearsal and my sound engineer is gone to fix some shit. The Manager, their soundengineer and a translator pop up next to me at the FOH and ask me, if we have some space for their drummer. There was no drummer in my plans, there was no backline for a drummer, there was no mantion of a drummer anywhere, and so, i pannicked. The translator relayed my ramble to the manager and a short laugh later, i was handed their drummer, a mini disk player.... Well, the whole show was half playback and it was more about the show than about the music. They destroyed a few wedges and a base amp, ripped a sink out of the wall, and threw a Sennheiser cordless mic off the stage. The cleaners had fun with a gallon of theatre-blood on the old stage and security had to block off the gallery for suicide reasons. The whole thing wasn't worth it in the end... Aunt Edith cought a typo.
@jackfromthejungle7538
2 жыл бұрын
Wow, you can tell that all these people who talk trash about that Polyphia incident or Clay for that matter dont know shit about playing drums or more specifically actually PERFORMING LIVE. From my experience time works different when youre on stage - youre in an extreme rush, for me at least, everything is super slowed down because im so excited and on high alert. So in the past when i didnt play with a click track i was always wayyy too fast, and crucial moments where timing matters always got messed up. And it was actually a challenge to learn to guide my band through the songs with a metronome on my in-ears while still listening to what my mates where playing. So no, playing with a click track definitely isnt Easy Road... its not cheating, its a skill set imo And that thing with polyphia is actually unbelieveable to me, like - having a literal second hand metronome on your LEG? what? I really wanna see all these "online drum masters" perform a polyphia song under those circumstances
@timolebeck6405
2 жыл бұрын
Amen, man! Click-Tracks and backing tracks are sooo common these days… I don’t get the arguments „against“ them. Big respect for Polyphia and their drum tech!🤘
@knotsandkhaos7382
2 жыл бұрын
On another note I didn't know that happened to Clay. He is a pnuemonal drummer. Dude is a BEAST on the kit. For the roadie Chris to do that he's DEDICATED to his job and beyond impressive. That's someome you want on your team. Not a lot of roadies would do that and would just hand over their ear monitor. Fuking epic. 🤘
@Beardus_Maximus
2 жыл бұрын
This is insane to hear, I’m not even a musician and I know that the syncopation needed to pull off album comparable performances has to be next level, especially for fucking Polyphia who are INSANELY talented and have a lot of bonkers difficult parts. How anyone can try to diminish the finesse this situation took to fix is beyond me, but that’s the world we’re living in lol. Missed you a bunch while I was in Canada buddy, glad to be back to your content ❤️
@SteveDunnBand
2 жыл бұрын
Click tracks (and backing) have improved live shows by leaps and bounds! It’s always awesome to see a crew that can keep the wheels rolling in an instant and sometimes even step in seamlessly for a member if needed.
@MichaelAE
10 ай бұрын
A little late to the party, but what blows my mind is that anyone with a functioning pair of ears can hear that Polyphia's music is ridden with EDM influences. Music that is inherently grid based and is as precise as music can get. How on earth would you not expect them to use tracks live? I mean, it's extremely obvious, even when you listen to a minute of one of their songs for the first time, that their programming is a huge part of their sound. Of course they're going to use tracks. All of that programming is basically an extra instrument. What would people expect them to do, hire a DJ? Or maybe train an octopus to play every sound for them on a synth?
@Tigermaster1986
2 жыл бұрын
11:25 Someone really needs to tell these people that "Whiplash" is not a documentary and, musically speaking, it doesn't make sense at all. They're almost directly quoting J. K. Simmons' character. Maybe they think classical musicians aren't real performers, because they rely on the conductor to lead them. Is that it? Also - a lot of people seem to think that the great musicians they see on stage need to only be in sync with each other. Very often this is not the case. They need to be in sync with whatever is shown on the screen behind them, with the pyrotechnics that is often preprogrammed, with the lighting, with any kind of multimedia they will be using during the show. And yes - they need to be in sync with the backing track. And yes - everyone uses backing tracks. Does anyone actually think Metallica bring actors on stage for the prayer in "Enter Sandman"? No, of course not - that's a prerecorded track. Does anyone think that symphonic/power metal bands bring orchestras on stage? Because they don't. Hell, Powerwolf don't even have a bass player, they use prerecorded bass tracks for their live shows.
@Paul7DS
2 жыл бұрын
MIDI Time Code, Smpte and tracks make our shows cleaner, tighter and full of visual candy for the fans. FOH, Lighting, video and media servers need it for a great shows
@Soviet_Saguaro
2 жыл бұрын
It's kinda like asking if a piano player using a metronome to keep time is a "real musician" 😆
@thomashoffman8916
2 жыл бұрын
It honestly seems like people just got a glimpse behind the curtain and they don't like the shattered illusion that their idols have flaws. News flash, they are only human like everyone else. The other problem is a lot of the metal hipsters (yes I will refer to them as that and they are holding the genre back) who have to nitpick everything and will only listen to a band until it becomes mainstream and then they complain that the band sold out and so on, these are the guys complaining trying to act like them being a fan of someone fallable is just the death of the genre, and I agree with you Tank. They need to grow the hell up.
@maryhelenbuchele7342
9 ай бұрын
I get so tired of people saying bands sell out just because they get popular or become mainstream. To me sell out means you become a asshole and don't care about the fans anymore.
@marcvolgers8352
Жыл бұрын
Those who think that playing by a click track is a sign of not being a real musicians have no idea. It's actually harder than one might think. As a human we tend to slow down/speed up, even the best players do. The plus side is that music sounds more organic. But playing by a click track has also a lot of advantages. I personally record all my stuff with fixed tempo's, because it makes the recording process a lot easier and you can edit stuff etc etc. Live it also has advantages as like timing effects etc. etc. But it's also harder. On a recording you can screw up if you get out of time, but live... you can't. Drummers that play live on a click track have acquired a great skill. Don't bash them, applaud them! Great video!!!!
@RobertEMuir
Жыл бұрын
With all the layering of instruments and effects and vocals...to get the genuine sonic results you have to have tracks. What would Neal Peart do without trigger tracks.
@Razrback
Жыл бұрын
People that aren't musicians don't know sht about how it is
@PeTTs0n88
2 жыл бұрын
I mean... there's always gonna be a discussion of how much "help" any artist "can" have to be considered "legit". (All those terms are iffy at best.) From instruments and electrical amplification at all, to autotune, playback/backing tracks/sampling etc. Who's to draw the line? Everyone is indeed a critic, and damned if you do, damned if you don't. Skill can be had and shown in a lot of different ways.
@stevebondeson2852
2 жыл бұрын
I didn't know how any of this worked until I toured with a band . I never realized how many bands use backing tracks . They do what they have to do for a great live show . The band I was with uses a click track and that's it . They do have songs they don't perform live because they would need more members or a backing track . But everything you hear at their live show is being played live . The bands name is Liliac and they are fantastic !
@Brombit
2 жыл бұрын
You play an instrument / sing / write songs? You're a musician. I keep gatekeepers out of my gate.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
Boom.
@shockt9610
2 жыл бұрын
I was gonna say as well. Click tracks and programmed changes really equip smaller bands for a bigger production on a budget.
@punkdoggo211
10 ай бұрын
Im a drummer myself and I think click tracks are completely fine. Our whole entire job is to keep time, and this just helps us to make sure we're doing our job correctly. I'd much rather have a fellow drummer using a click track live than have them off-beat and messing up everyone else + ruining the song
@lanekast672
2 жыл бұрын
Anyone who says “real musicians don’t use click tracks” has never played a show bigger than their mom and grandma in the living room.
@Igorilianu
2 жыл бұрын
Clicks/tracks should be like a way to help a little bit buto help everytime
@Krattack
2 жыл бұрын
Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
And they all stink.
@jylauril
2 жыл бұрын
Not everyone has that hole. In certain diseases that hole is removed from a person
@danielthurston9770
2 жыл бұрын
This is my view. if they need it they need it. I go for the show and the fun. I don't care if they use extras. I want fun and enjoyment. That is all. It is not a time or place I was not entertained and enjoyed the Music and seeing my favorite Artists Crank out my song I enjoy. Tank, I know you don't hear it from the fans much but GREAT JOB on all you worked on. We the fans appreciate it.
@benbermusics
2 жыл бұрын
Great explanation Tank!
@brionyb4007
2 жыл бұрын
Great video and explanation as always Tank. Still find it odd that Till Lindemann rarely seems to wear monitors. See him wearing them when they are on the small stage in the crowd but rarely on the main stage. Do you know why that’d be? Cheers 🙂 B
@NikkLiberos
Жыл бұрын
Also, the amount of big productions that right now have video that is also part of the show? As you say, without a click track, the whole thing would fall apart
@helblingpatrick3603
2 жыл бұрын
Hey Tank have a question. Do you think, that backing tracks and so on has an huge effect on the live situation to the audience to interact with themK? Because you can't do some special singalongs longer than planed or how is this? And thanks for your clear english because for me as Swiss guy it's perfect to understand. Thanks for that man
@willnewsome6222
2 жыл бұрын
That’s a good question. We have multiple versions of songs depending on set length. The sing-along space for extended versions of songs is absolutely possible with the utilization of tracks. Essentially you leave the click going for the designated number of bars you want the crowd to join in on and then bring the tracks back in for the close. I also like doing an intimate intro with the crowd singing along before starting tracks. Another possibility is having the tracks end after the final chorus and doing an extended outro.
@German_1
2 жыл бұрын
Symphonic bands...wonder who you meant....does it start with Humm, I don't know a N? After your rant about them, I'm guessing you don't listen to them anymore.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
1. There's a lot more symphonic bands than just Nightwish. 2. I still listen to Nightwish regularly, and even said in the rant video that I love the band s music.
@Tommy_Stewart
2 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU! When I see a band, I only have one question I ask myself to figure out if I like what they’re doing…do I like it? If so, I don’t care how they’re doing it. Just enjoy music, man. Don’t get caught up in all the details that you imagine actually matter.
@cjmeadors
2 жыл бұрын
Tracks aren't the problem, its the lip-syncing, miming, etc. Pretending to play things you're not really playing.
@TankTheTech
2 жыл бұрын
Which in my experience of touring and seeing bands use tracks, is an absolute rarity.
@Ennello
2 жыл бұрын
This seems to be an aspect of live performances little people know about, surprisingly enough. Of all my friends only 1 or 2 I talked to about performing live were aware that click tracks even exist. So with that in mind, it's to be expected that it's unclear to a lot of people what those tracks do exactly. It's important that people know that click tracks are actually just there to keep everyone, including all backing tracks, in sync. Especially in larger venues it's easy to go out of sync because of delay/echo/reverb. If you want a 100% solid performance, it's practically a must. If people realized this, there wouldn't be a discussion.
@neilpatrickhairless
Жыл бұрын
wait until they learn about MIDI key spikes 💀
@drunkard103
Жыл бұрын
my band is a singer, guitarist, drummer, and samples for synths, basses, backing vocals, and electronic drums. i control the samples in ableton with an APC and i control the tempo changes in the click tracks. people assume this makes us play perfectly. i’m just glad our drummer and guitarist are so amazing coz i mess up a /LOT/ xD
@chuckelator
Жыл бұрын
I've been going to metal shows since about 2003/2004, and noticed very early on, the more technically proficient/proggy bands tended to have a drummer with a Mac Book (even then) set up next to their drum kit, for the click track. Why anyone would have an issue with someone playing to what essentially amounts to a per-song metronome is BEYOND me.
@Dragonhannes
2 жыл бұрын
For me (played in a Band a while back and playing guitars for nearly 20 years) it is easy to spot a band who used any kind of click vs. a band who don't. This is where you note the professionals. And this has nothing to do with being a good musician or so. It is about bringing the best possible and consistend performance to the audience. Yes, there might be some Bands which sounds on point without click. The more technical it gets (escpecially Polyphia-like) the higher the chance that a click is vital to bring the songs to the stage and I don't any reason why a Band shouldn't use the help of a click to improve their performance, it is no Playback, so chill ;)
@Theblackdahlia1
Жыл бұрын
Is Chris Adler former drummer of Lamb Of God a real musician? He used click tracks during live shows. He was during the early and mid-2000s considered the best drummer by the drumming community. He is a genre defining drummer and had amazing drumming techniques and style.
@giancarlomartinez5630
10 ай бұрын
Even The Doors used backing tracks before any of this was digital, and nobody questions their musicianship.
@PlanetSidewinder
Жыл бұрын
Heya Tank, glad to see you’re still up and running. Loved this video and it got me thinking… how many people who bitch about these tracks listen to Nightwish 🤔? Naturally they have an orchestra and choir backstage doing their parts 😏
@Eluarelon
2 жыл бұрын
You know, not arguing about clicks and tracks, but my old Nokia 1310? Way superior to just everything Apple ever produced. :p
@ShadowhispersBand
2 жыл бұрын
Switched to backing tracks a few months ago. Our drummer always played with a clicktrack. I have to say for me personally (and I was really not a fan of the idea of backing tracks) my playing has improved playing with backing tracks and in ear monitoring. And really, the guys from Polyphia deserve a lot of credit for pulling this off.
@roberthowell4549
2 жыл бұрын
I don’t believe anyone has brought up the simple fact of budget. In modern country music there are always several instruments on a track. Piano, mandolin and steel guitar to name a few. When a band goes on tour they simply can’t afford to take a piano player and a mandolin player and a steel player as well as a full band. Not many people like to work for free. And if truth be told club owners and promoters don’t like to pay what bands are actually worth. So if it’s on your album and you can’t afford to take everyone out with you what do you do? You use tracks to ENHANCE your performance just as if you paid for a mandolin player to travel with you. This means you now go from 2 or 3 hotel rooms to 4 or 5 per night. This means you mode of transportation has to be bigger , you go from a sprinter van to a bus, which automatically adds thousands of dollars per week to your bottom line. If you have more money going out than you have coming in you don’t get to tour long. The buying public likes for you to sound like it does at home. Damned if you damned if you don’t. So budget considerations is a good reason for tracks to be used. How about this..just go enjoy the show you paid good money for and have a good time instead of picking everything apart.
@di0__0ib
Жыл бұрын
as most drummers and sound techs know, using a wedge for a drummer, just begs for audio issues. You have unintentional audio that could be picked up by the drum mics most of all. that's something I'm good with leaving way in the past.
@Baldwinr1992
2 жыл бұрын
To everyone talking shit, I challenge you to play drums to a polyphia song and stay 100% on time with all of the tempo/ time signature changes they do without hearing the other instruments. If you can't then sit down and keep your shit talking to yourself. But also for one guitar player bands like I'm in, we feed the DI signal with a plugin without the cabinet IR on from an interface to the effects return of a guitar amp and cabinet and that is how we run the other guitar track. That way we get the stage sound of a left and right guitar without having to send the signal to FOH.
@robburgess4556
2 жыл бұрын
Almost all bands use tracks to one extent or another. But then there's the KISS End Of The Road tour. That's a complete rip off. Milli Vanilli with a full band.
@relativeparadox9567
Жыл бұрын
Hell I use a click and tracks for busking in the subway. Playing Mother and watching people look around and wonder where the hell that organ is coming from as it starts fading in is priceless.
@kahpde
2 жыл бұрын
Paul Stanley forget open mouth in right time in when drummer f... up. And Gene Simmons say that rock is deat. I say rock is really death when i look and listen last Kiss concerts.
@zzkeokizz
Жыл бұрын
I saw Queensryche Operation Mindcrime. They had lots of clips and other audio from the album. And it added to the show.
@Jovian999
2 жыл бұрын
As usual, your insight on this is kinda the best. But I would totally use a nokia brick phone from the early 2000s.
@illumin4t152
2 жыл бұрын
most people which complain about tracks/clicks are ignorant you are right about that, but i would bet on it that they dont even know the difference between tracks and full playback
@HollywoodRecordingStudio
Жыл бұрын
Keith Moon of The Who used backing tracks live for Baba O’Reilly.
@adamplaza3935
2 жыл бұрын
Whoever started that conversation should try to play polyphias stuff as a gig, with 4 instruments, from which all of them got a ton of little solos sprinkled over all songs, without some kind of click. I rather think this is a confusion between this case and the fact that the Pop artists often have full playbacks because they have to focus on dancing and look good xD
@bryanthrow
Жыл бұрын
i'm not trying to argue your point, but i'd love for you to name one of "my favorite bands" that uses click tracks live. i don't shop at hot topic & i don't listen to kroq if you need help.
@ruthuhl1969
2 жыл бұрын
Classic Orchestras use a kind of human klick tracks called conductors for centuries 😆, so what's wrong with that
@IkkjeDus
2 жыл бұрын
I like your "rant" but at the same time I think you are getting too much wound up by those boneheads. Although a real one would be shouting his grievance somewhere in the woods instead behind a modern device such as a keyboard... tsssssss boneheads are no longer what they were 😁
@Robert_Herring
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic explanation, Tank. I knew a lot of this stuff, but I had not thought about how much a live show would fall apart without the tracks. Talk about an "Oh shit" moment. If anyone thinks that it's easy playing to a click, they obviously have never tried to play with a metronome. No matter how skilled, that can be a major challenge. In Polyphia's case their music is so complex, with each part have minute spaces where another part fits, would just fall apart if the tempo fluctuates much at all. I was going to make the conductor comment, glad you said it.
@dr3w5k1_91
2 жыл бұрын
I was reading lots of crap on Reddit about danny worsnop from asking Alexandria saying he uses tracks and lip syncs to the screaming parts and only sings the clean parts live. No matter what I think he’s amazing at both but in my opinion I don’t care if it’s true or not in reality it helps save his voice from those harsh vocal parts and they were amazing live no matter what
@joejimenez5917
2 жыл бұрын
Queen has been doing this for years do you think anybody could pull off the middle of Bohemian Rhapsody it's no big deal
@danbuter
2 жыл бұрын
Of course they are. Hell, many of the best bands ever use/d tracks (Rush, Lovebites, etc). As long as they are just being additions to the actual playing, it's no big deal. Now, if it's Motley Crue where the only person actually performing live is Vince, it's really bad. Also, anyone who has a problem with a click is an idiot.
@edwinwise6751
2 жыл бұрын
Next time you see a guys pedal board with endless effects and pitch correction on the vocals tell me where the line is…..
@markokuha7128
2 жыл бұрын
I also used to be exactly that ignorant teenager 😄 Since 15 years ago I’ve learned a kinda life lesson which says that everyone makes their own kind of music and some (maybe most?) of those kinds requires a click while playing live. And even some not musical backing track stuff also requires it, for example: lights (in some cases). By the end of a day it’s every musicians and/or band’s own decision what stuff they want to include to their songs and live settings and those decisions sets the requirement for the click. I’ve personally, for the whole 20 years I’ve played in bands and written songs, been strict to not have anything to be included to anything to require any kind of backing track or click in live shows (most of that time a click wouldn’t even be possible to have in our humble live settings even if it was required 😄), and I don’t think that’ve made my music or live shows any better or worse: it’s just the style of the very particular case of music.
@RoryEllisMusic
Жыл бұрын
Love the Evergrey albums on the wall! Such an underrated band!
@phillosopherguitarist2673
Жыл бұрын
If I'll ever be lucky enough to find myself in the position to play a US tour - your're hired!
@jordanlindsey4299
2 жыл бұрын
Another excellent and informative video again Tank. Would definitely like to see some of those people saying "he shouldn't need a click" to try to play a Polyphia drum part perfectly without any assistance. So can we expect an Interview with a Roadie with Chris or Clay in the future?
@JoshuaScott806
2 жыл бұрын
As someone who loves music, but is not musically inclined, thanks for the explanation. IMO whatever makes the show better im all for, tech can fail which is why its important to have a backup plan, or in this case a badass for a roadie whos willing to tap on the drummers leg to keep the performance on time lmfao
@Thnielsen85
2 жыл бұрын
The art of mixing and using tracks on stage, is a whole new level of creativity that a band can utilize. In my opinion, the musicians are as real as they get nomatter if they use tracks or not (as long as they don't fake it), but the sound engineer/mixer that makes the tracks, are a new form of musician. It takes a hell of a lot of work and talent to make it sound good. As far as click tracks go, it's just another tool for the drummer to use. Is it cheating? not in my opinion. To sum it all up, whatever makes a band sound even better live, go for it!
@peterdolbee2657
Жыл бұрын
I feel you bro, I used to tech for the hair bands in Hollywood, I saw problems with click tracks at times but mostly it went well, I toured with bands in the 90’s from the sleaze glam scene, I did mostly guitar, bass, and drums tech, some lights and sound, I think people unaware of the recording process would not understand how click tracks work, Is there a platform where I could chat with you in real time?
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