Bit of a related yikes on that one. I work R&D for a manufacturer of construction chemicals. Among other things we have a range of facade watrerproofing and impregnation products, the latter of which usually contain PFAS to achieve as much of a hydophobic surface as possible. One day a year or 2 ago, we recieved a sudden statement that after a few shipment delays the PFAS-concentrate was no longer available, effect immediately with no replacement offered. What happened? Turns out, the (unsurprisingly also 3M) plant that made the compound in question was shut down by belgian authorities because a significant amount of people from the nearby villages tested with extremely elevated fluoride levels in their blood. Whoopsies, i guess? Worst part of it is, that unlike alkoxysilanes that react with silanol groups in the mineral substrates and chemically bond to it to produce a lasting hydrophobic surface, the PFAS are largely just stuck on and simply wash off over time. But PFAS gives a more impressive early "lotus effect" so its still used én masse. From an environmental standpoint i'm looking forward to a time where legislation is strict enough so companies cant weasel themselves past it anymore because "well, this compound is legally distinct from the ones you've banned, therefore we get to throw it into the environment for a few more years, LOL".
@kid_missive
2 жыл бұрын
What if legislators around the world changed how we do chemistry - so that any industry would need investigation and approval for ANY new chemical substance going to market, with its intended use in mind, much like how food/drug products are? This would be contrary to the current system of waiting until problems arise, and then banning things one at a time.
@pseudonymity0000
2 жыл бұрын
This is meant to be the job of ministry's and administrations. The average politician does not have time to learn everything about chemistry, to then make a law banning certain substances. This is why the FDA and EPA have broad powers to legislate new mandates without bothering the politicians with the nitty gritty. The main problem is these institutions have become corrupt. What is really needed is a law which states that it is highly illegal to lobby these organisations which are trying to protect the public. And when I say highly illegal, I'm talking instant devolution and civil forfeiture of a corporation for even attempting it. If you want limited liability, you are not allowed to interfere with the lawmakers which determine your liabilities. This makes the Loss and risk so high, even the most unempathetic sociopathic corporation would not even dare be seen breathing near any administration official. It is cheaper to just take the R&D loss then to try anything to slip it onto the market by "persuading" regulators.
@arnautarnautsen2564
2 жыл бұрын
@@kid_missive What you are describing is REACh, the European chemical legislation. It comes with huge problems in itself, because often (I'd even wager to say, most of the time) new chemicals are actually less harmful to the environment than existing ones, but cannot be adopted because of forbidding approval expenses. It also gives an incentive for companies to move their production to countries that don't care about the environment at all (think a very large one beginning with C), at which point whatever new chemical they develop will NOT be environmentally friendly. It's a big case of damned if you do, damned if you don't.
@189643478
2 жыл бұрын
However, no increased incidence of cancer was found around the 3M factory...
@satibel
2 жыл бұрын
They do the same with "research chemicals" i.e. illegal drug analogues, like 1p-lsd (which has been banned in some countries but not that many compared to regular lsd)
@8bits59
2 жыл бұрын
there are two types of solvents in this world: those that are reactive, and those that haven't been heated enough.
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
true!
@SomnolentFudge
2 жыл бұрын
Tom from E&F "The atmosphere is natures bin" 3M "The kidneys are natures bin"
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
"You are my dirty Novec-Dumpster"
@Spencisuar
Жыл бұрын
@@That_Chemistthat on a t-shirt with a picture of a kidney would be beautiful
@damiangruenberg3188
7 ай бұрын
@@That_Chemist are you currently a member?
@damiangruenberg3188
7 ай бұрын
@@That_Chemistof acs
@jimsvideos7201
2 жыл бұрын
I'm _certain_ 3M will gladly be upfront and transparent about health and environmental impacts of their products.
@DrewskisBrews
2 жыл бұрын
You would think by now, in particular with compounds looking like this, hubris on this level ("environmentally safe and non-toxic") would be recognized internally prior to product release. "Let's dial back the maketing on this one..."
@dylangergutierrez
2 жыл бұрын
@@DrewskisBrews I like to imagine this *is* the dialed-back marketing, and that originally 3M was going to market this stuff as face cream additive
@Girvo747
2 жыл бұрын
Hahahaha
@ortholux2343
2 жыл бұрын
@@dylangergutierrez search for Pfas anti fogging spray. Damn close to face cream. KZitem deleted my reaction for the 7th time
@conorbroderick5769
Жыл бұрын
Damn sure would be nice if we could get some class-based regulation around here instead of just sticking an ether in the backbone and going “doesn’t cause liver cancer anymore guys!!”
@ubiquitous_phd4243
2 жыл бұрын
Another good reminder that “unreactive” is always a relative term
@DrewskisBrews
2 жыл бұрын
In the words of the late Dr. Paul Jones, professor of organic chemistry at the University of North Texas, "I'm so inert, I'm unstoppable"
@jakx2ob
2 жыл бұрын
Non-flammable? Challenge accepted!
@michaireneuszjakubowski5289
2 жыл бұрын
Just like "insulator" in electrical engineering. Given high enough voltage, everything becomes a conductor. Air, plastic, people...
@cezarcatalin1406
2 жыл бұрын
Noble gases are unreactive... but Xenon likes to dissagree
@Oscar4u69
2 жыл бұрын
even helium can be reactive
@lexinwonderland5741
2 жыл бұрын
okay as a biochemistry student who spent half their "honeymoon period" with the field studying anesthetics (especially haloethers!!!), your work is PHENOMENAL and it shows a level of analysis i WISH i saw in most pharmacology papers i read. also i fkn love the use of a kidney clipart instead of an R group or any other standard symbol, absolutely fucking hilarious, great tool for making a slide deck more entertaining. keep it up TC, i've been a fan since the old channel and it makes me so happy to see you prosper like this!!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
that 2006 paper that I quote in the video is incredible - those researchers are the real heros - in an age of early internet and poor long-distance relationships, they stunned the world
@WobblycogsUk
2 жыл бұрын
Rule of thumb, never trust anything with that much fluorine in it.
@haydennorris2913
2 жыл бұрын
I work at the Mott center for human growth and development in Detroit as part of Wayne state university. Recently we held a conference where one of the posters presented showed a significant change in DNA methylation in mouse sperm after mouse exposure to some perfluoroalkanes. I wouldn't be surprised if these compounds had a similar effect.
@nutzeeer
2 жыл бұрын
So there is changed methylation?
@haydennorris2913
2 жыл бұрын
@@nutzeeer yes. studies on epigenetics show that similar effects can be passed down through multiple generations and have significant effects on offspring. The most heavily methylated genes this particular poster showed was associated with memory and learning. I don't remember exactly which one it was though.
@user255
2 жыл бұрын
@@nutzeeer Is that not what he literally wrote..?
@nutzeeer
2 жыл бұрын
@@user255 I am dumb. I wanted to ask if this changes epigenetics lol
@babynautilus
8 ай бұрын
makes me worry about disregulated methylation during embryogenesis! i've read criticisms of the hardcore epigenetic inheritance wrt methylation patterns getting washed out during differentiation and replication, but a constant effect from indiscriminate methylation seems like it could rly mess things up🫨
@27duuude1
2 жыл бұрын
We have a major problem with these PFA's in maine, lots of farmland and hunting grounds getting shut down because of them. They are known as FOREVER chemicals, so you're not going to find anything about decomposition. They end up in the ground water because they are fairly heavy chemicals.
@Dr_Mario2007
2 жыл бұрын
It's basically hard to destroy it, so difficult that it was only recently discovered that with pressure and heat, it can be destroyed, the only problem now is logistics.
@warlokyx
2 жыл бұрын
I mean just because they are called forever chemicals, it doesn't mean they last forever... Wasn't there some recent paper about how the variants containing a carboxyl-group being susceptible to radical-mediated decarboxylation and subsequent decomposition? I think that chemist also made a video about that. But nontheless they do be some scary ass shit.
@xxportalxx.
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dr_Mario2007 another issue with them is all the sources, I'm working at a company that's coincidentally in Maine and our environmental safety dept has been working for over a year now just identifying all the pfas sources in our processes (which apparently is very difficult bc the levels they're testing at are extremely susceptible to contamination, like the type of sunscreen you wear can completely swamp the readings).
@genentropy
2 жыл бұрын
@@Dr_Mario2007 So, you have to take your PFAs to Mount Doom at the heart of Mordor?
@jhoughjr1
2 жыл бұрын
Bet some hard X-rays would have something to say to these forever chemicals.
@applechocolate4U
2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy all the other crazy KZitem chemists but I really like the level of respect and consideration you present on your channel. Glad you're getting the channel growth you deserve
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Most of the chemtubers are pretty great, we just haven’t had an opportunity to cameo in each others videos
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks! Most of the chemtubers are pretty great, we just haven’t had an opportunity to cameo in each others videos
@TheObnoxiousSquirrel
2 жыл бұрын
Why are there two replies lol
@EddSjo
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheObnoxiousSquirrel Just a bug with youtube. Happens sometimes
@evilotis01
2 жыл бұрын
yeah, can't say i'm surprised that a highly fluorinated 3M compound is less cuddly than they claim. they have previous here, after all: PFOS and other PFCs, in particular
@aqdrobert
2 жыл бұрын
Salesman: If my UV laser pointer does not make this fluorine compound blow us up, it's SAFE.
@petevenuti7355
2 жыл бұрын
Where the salesman have you wear eye protection too? Double Doubt dat.
@JackClayton123
2 жыл бұрын
We used fully flourinated hydrocarbons back in the 80’s for assembly of microelectronics. We would lower the assembly with solder paste/rosin mixtures into the vapour phase of the boiling fluorocarbons. It was hot enough to melt the alloys.
@Gameboygenius
2 жыл бұрын
An electronics engineering youtuber I follow did that once. He used Galden LS 240 which is a perfluoropolyether. Aa he mentioned in the video, you use it at a temperature just a few tens of degrees below breakdown. kzitem.info/news/bejne/pWhu24ewfKVoYKA
@Si-Al-Ti
2 жыл бұрын
I remember Marco Reps doing the same using perfluorother in one of his videos. I had never seen it before, pretty cool! it's the CERN voltmeter video, if your interested.
@Sniperboy5551
2 жыл бұрын
I love the Ex&Fire quote, brilliant channel. This was a fascinating video, thank you!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@lexinwonderland5741
2 жыл бұрын
Seconded. Tom is one of my heroes, I wish he'd upload again soon....
@zyeborm
2 жыл бұрын
@@lexinwonderland5741 He had one not that long ago. Don't forget his second channel
@arnautarnautsen2564
2 жыл бұрын
Readoption of methoxyflurane for pain management sounds like one of those callously harebrained schemes to fight the opioid epidemic by offering alternatives to opiates that don't work as well and have horrible side effects, but are not addictive. I don't want to start a whole research paper, here, but it isn't the only chemical involved.
@GODDAMNLETMEJOIN
2 жыл бұрын
Good on Benson for turning a "why do we always have this junk at the bottom of our glassware?" level question to a full thesis project.
@kasuha
2 жыл бұрын
There's no such thing like perfectly inert, safe, or non-toxic chemical. It's always about finding a compromise.
@mimisezlol
Жыл бұрын
Water Wait no doesn't sodium blow up in water
@RT42069
Жыл бұрын
@@mimisezloleveryone who drinks water dies, so drinking water is fatal.
@stevenhthe21st
10 ай бұрын
@@RT42069 Along with everyone who eats food.
@digitalasylum369
2 жыл бұрын
You're the real deal, man! Great video, great citations, great takes! As someone with an interest in biology and chemistry, this is the kind of content I find fulfilling above all else. Thank you!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@YuPuWang
2 жыл бұрын
These SN2 products immediately came to my mind when you said "white precipitate!" Dichloromethane does that, too!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
with DABCO as well! I think DCM is roughly as electrophilic as these solvents are - DABCO will only react once, not twice, similar to DCM
@goaway9923
2 жыл бұрын
Spicy water
@interstellarsurfer
2 жыл бұрын
Forever.
@oitthegroit1297
2 жыл бұрын
I thought spicy water was H2O2?
@dukeradwardthe5th843
2 жыл бұрын
@@interstellarsurfer forever spicy water
@jasonchiu272
2 жыл бұрын
@@oitthegroit1297 I thought it was tritium oxide
@ambiguoustvreference835
2 жыл бұрын
Forever water
@aloysiuskurnia7643
2 жыл бұрын
On the poll you posted, I thought that I don't really care about the existence of video camera in your video (as in "I'm fine with it, I'd just follow along") but actually I just realized that having a video camera there makes it more fresh compared to bare presentation slides! Also I hope to see more chemical structure binding to random objects, we had carrots and now we got kidneys :p
@jinx2247
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this video and for your channel. I find it difficult to find videos that hit an appropriate balance of technicality and accessibility to the undereducated, but you explain things very well, and your demeanor is incredibly welcoming and comforting. There are many reasons I will not be able to go back to college to try again, but I am at peace with that thanks to people like you taking on the labor of education outside the support structures of institutions. Slowly but surely I'm filling in the gaps in my understanding of the basics with context. Sooner or later I'll be able to read a textbook and do self-guided study. Maybe in a year or two I'll reach the danger threshold for "a little knowledge" and share with you an "I accidentally turned my milkshake into phenol" anecdote.
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your time and attention :)
@scabbarae
2 жыл бұрын
And this was ThatChemist's last video before he mysteriously disappeared.
@mopippenger7373
2 жыл бұрын
I'm gonna brush my teeth with it and you can't stop me
@JAzzWoods-ik4vv
2 жыл бұрын
Congrats on the 50k I have no idea if 3M mexico will sell these to universities, but I’ll look into it and see if my toxicology department is interested
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
that would be awesome!
@HiwasseeRiver
2 жыл бұрын
Imagine dumping heat to outside air and outside air can be as cold at -80F. The application I was constructing did just that and used a flammable hydrocarbon that flowed at -80F. Most of the people involved in the project recognized the fire hazard and didn't want the flammable hydrocarbon - we pitched the perfluoro products, but the project didn't like the cost - I think it has a good niche based solely on physical properties.
@namibjDerEchte
2 жыл бұрын
IMO the fire hazard of alkanes as phase-change heat-transfer substances isn't that hard to contain, though: just keep the atmosphere around the plumbing flooded with an inert gas (nitrogen should do fine, oxygen-depleted air should even be sufficient), and use fire proof building materials so that if the refrigerant ever does ignite, it won't take anything else down with it. For human compatibility, you'd need to fit the workers with the lowest tier of life support grade SCBA, as it's just the lack of oxygen and not anything in that atmosphere that poses a danger. That said, for mere -80F, eutectic ethanol/water should do just fine and even adding some extra water is fine. At that temperature, you could use 85%vol ethanol which has a flashpoint of 60F. Not _nice,_ but far from your normal alkane.
@VerbenaIDK
2 жыл бұрын
Anything fluorinated in firefighting makes me rather uncomfortable
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
did somebody say *HF?*
@JGHFunRun
2 жыл бұрын
@@That_Chemist I love me some carbonyl fluoride! Fluorine-based phosgene analogs are the best!
@VerbenaIDK
2 жыл бұрын
@@JGHFunRun Oh yes gimme that delicious COF2 🤤
@VerbenaIDK
2 жыл бұрын
@@That_Chemist Yes, delicious smelling HF, it takes my breath away
@nirodper
2 жыл бұрын
make carbon tetrachloride great again
@fletcherreder6091
2 жыл бұрын
I had _probably_ unrelated kidney failure while working with Novec over a decade ago. I say probably because there were a lot of other factors, but now I'm wondering if it didn't play a part. There was a lot of gunk forming in it and we never did figure out what it was dissolving, so maybe it wasn't dissolving anything.
@CED99
Жыл бұрын
Nephrotoxicity is nasty - kidney damage can lead to hypertension, which you've guessed it can lead to more kidney damage, then the cycle repeats
@Gunbudder
2 жыл бұрын
in a totally unrelated note, 3M buys That Chemist's entire lab! lol i'm curious what 3M knew before releasing their product. i'm guessing it was known and taken as "acceptable risk"
@ortholux2343
2 жыл бұрын
He gets hired and tasked with safety. Not anything actively researchy. Like 3m did with the guy who did his PhD in the 90s on measuring pfos in the livers of rodents near their plant and found the highest levels ever measured in a living animal upto that time. 30 years later politicians and their media mouthpieces claim nobody knew there was a problem even though that thesis is a Google search away. These same politicians and their lawyers even drafted scripts that went from full disclosure upto claim to know nothing.
@fernandolima4113
2 жыл бұрын
This is awesome, thank you for the shared knowledge. I am just starting my pharmaceutical degree, and one of my favorite things is watching your videos, not understand anything, then looking it up more and finally knowing what the hell are you talking about. You're a major reason why i dont think studying chemistry sucks as much as other stuff, thank you
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
glad to hear it :)
@fernandolima4113
2 жыл бұрын
@@ThorirLenvik haha maybe one day i will love chemistry as much as you do, im still figuring things out
@dannyash3805
2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating talk! It's so cool to see how new chemistry can provide insight into old, previously puzzling results. If methoxyflurane is serving as an alkylating agent, that could definitely account for some of its toxicity. Speaking as a practicing physician, I would note that the potential for medication toxicity is always considered as part of the risk benefit proposition of any medication. The alternative agents for emergency analgesia are opiates and NSAIDs, which obviously come with their own issues as well (the latter being a notorious, but very useful class of nephrotoxins). I'm only familiar with the American regulatory environment, but I would guess that most other developed countries also do post-marketing surveillance on approved medications, and it would be interesting to see if anything has come up here. I found a review article from the UK that claimed that no nephrotoxicity has been detected at analgesic doses of methoxyflurane, but posting the link seems to have eaten my comment, so it is Blair and Frampton 2016, clinical drug investigation.
@nestlefreak1
2 жыл бұрын
I don't know why, but at 7:25 I was really hoping you were going to say "by no amines" lol
@trustmeimabiochemist3929
2 жыл бұрын
Ok that's great! That's great! That's.... that's.... THAT'S ENOUGH FLUORINE!
@SeanCMonahan
2 жыл бұрын
"Bam it again, Elzar! Knock it up another notch."
@petevenuti7355
2 жыл бұрын
Question for you, if you had a fully fluorinated analog of cyclic a quinone, how would the electrochemical redox potential be altered?
@rangwankasantikul9223
2 жыл бұрын
The other concern is when these get exposed to sufficient heat, they might decompose to Fluorophosgene and HF too. One more thing to worry in the structure fire.
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
The CF3OCH3 definitely does
@luukscholten8155
2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoyed this personal touch, and making your own research accessible to your viewers! Especially putting it all in context, and expressing your concerns really made this video worthwhile! Congrats on the 50k subs! I bet the next 50k will follow shortly!
@timkirkpatrick9155
2 жыл бұрын
EPA has a series on PFAS concerns for contamination of water and soil.
@vmodsm
2 жыл бұрын
"under an inert atmosphere of N2" always makes me laugh
@martinivers489
2 жыл бұрын
The world of perfluorinated compounds is like a weird mirror world of the ordinary OC we are accustomed with. We consider hydrogen the default option, to the point it is not a even a functional group; and in the perfluoro world fluorine takes that place, directing our minds only at the other substituents. However, it is a different land with different rules and relying on intuition can prove dangerous there. Somehow fluorine is inherently suspicious, and since syntheses are more challenging than in the hydrogen world, most people have far less experience there.
@profdc9501
2 жыл бұрын
This is true, but breakdown products of fluorinated compounds can be quite toxic, hydrofluoric acid being a prime example. Earth's atmosphere is an oxidizing environment which is likely rare in the universe, but it's not so oxidizing that perfluorinated compounds spontaneously form. Over long periods of time fluorine tends to be sequestered as fluorite and into fluoroapatite minerals.
@lancer2204
2 жыл бұрын
14:39 Yeah... the "Green Whistle" used by paramedics all over Australia for instant pain relief...
@wyattarich
2 жыл бұрын
I genuinely hope this triggers a massive response from 3M, because it really should. Great video as always, even if half of it requires a lot of research to fully grasp! Thanks for making this content accessible for laypeople.
@verdatum
11 ай бұрын
Three months after this video, 3M announced a discontinuation schedule for their entire PFAS product line. It is due to take place by the end of 2525.
@oitthegroit1297
2 жыл бұрын
You'll find that the so-called "inert" solvents are even more reactive when you dump in a bunch of burning lithium or magnesium in them! (Or any alkali or alkaline earth element) I'd actually love to see video on that, please tell ChemicalForce lol
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
he told me that he has teflon powder - maybe at some point he will?
@YuPuWang
2 жыл бұрын
Or make a slurry of magnesium (or aluminium) powder in Novec and ignite it?
@oitthegroit1297
2 жыл бұрын
@@YuPuWang Kaboom!
@ShaLun42
2 жыл бұрын
@@That_Chemist this reminded me about teflon powder + aluminium powder smoke grenades that make aluminium fluoride aerosol. You kinda inhale that smoke and at first you feel fine, but later your lungs turn into swiss cheese.
@evilotis01
2 жыл бұрын
also: imagine how much fluorine 3M must get through
@warlokyx
2 жыл бұрын
also: imagine the amount of fluorine 3M factories must be storing just casually at all times. Like what possible safety measures can one even put in place in case of a leak? Store the gas tanks underground and hope that the silicon-dioxide in the gtound reacts with the fluorene-gas?
@MinnesotaExpat
2 жыл бұрын
@@warlokyx At the facility I worked at it was stored in a negative pressure environment in case of a leak, so it wouldn't get out of the area where is was used/stored. Anyone working on the tanks or lines needed to be in full hazmat suits connected to an air line. It's never fully safe, but we took risk reduction seriously.
@noneofyourbusiness4133
2 жыл бұрын
I need to say something: you look like the average high school bully in a 90’s or 80’s show… clearly they’ve finished their redemption arc and now are one of the best chemistry professor’s around!! Looking good!!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
lmfao
@pierreuntel1970
Жыл бұрын
Ikr? Kinda looks like a jerk tbh, lol, he got a new sub from me tho
@safetytfh
2 жыл бұрын
I've been to the labs where they developed Novec in Minnesota! Not as a scientist or engineer, just a contract IT guy. They have some pretty cool demo machines that run basically 24/7, and there's videos of some of those same machines at trade shows
@petrosthegoober
2 жыл бұрын
Congrats on 50K!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks :)
@RustyWalrusHole
2 жыл бұрын
This is fucking wild... I am a member of St John in South Australia, a charity first aid organization. I am qualified to give methoxyflurane as a painkiller. We are allowed to give up to two 3ml doses via inhaler (though, most members only even consider the second dose with a doctor present, I have only given one before. also there are other restrictions like if the patient has had a dose within two weeks we dont give more). so I'm hearing all this shit about how its straight up banned due to flurotoxicity in large portions of the world, I am actively shitting myself in my seat.
@yourfuneral
2 жыл бұрын
I like your stile you bring to the diversity of the YT-chemistry table! It's the flavor of in-house work presentation in a pretty chill group mixed with some anecdotal stuff with like-minded friends over a beer or three. Pretty happy to see how all the scientific channels seem to thrive these days, but maybe just my view from inside the bubble. Anyways, keep it coming! :)
@c0nct3d
2 жыл бұрын
I realy like your new format with video, it makes I find it more engaging when I see your expression
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
I appreciate the input, thanks!
@matthewphillips9083
Жыл бұрын
I live in Australia, I came to this video because I've always been interested in the Novec chemicals from an engineering/material choice point of view, but I've always been cautiously optimistic about the claims surrounding it. However the interesting part of this video for me has ended up being about Methoxyflurane. Here in Australia almost anyone will know what a green whistle is if you asked them, I knew the chemical they used was only legal in a few countries but I never knew why! Anyone I know that's had a broken bone of any variety would have had one, they're really only used as a tool by paramedics for instant relief when arriving at an incident. I've not had one personally (thankfully) but I've been told about their affects, instant pain relief and a strong pleasant "high" sensation. I'll definitely be asking my paramedic friends about this next time I see them!
@jimbobur
2 жыл бұрын
A halogenated hydrocarbon that's purportedly inert actually not being as inert as claimed? Where have we heard this tale before? 🤔
@IvanMyr1
Жыл бұрын
Novec is used in consumer computer cooling. Lots of AIO "water coolers" actually use novec, as it has better properties for using in a sealed loop where the coolant won't be replaced
@warlokyx
2 жыл бұрын
I love that you put yourself in your videos nowdays. Being able to put a face to your voice and work humanizes you quite a lot (I know probably a weird take), and this also makes the videos much easier to focus on somehow. One thing that I do wonder about though, how come that less fluorinated methyl groups are more electrophylic? I would think that in the case of the the PFA-methyl-ethers the more fluorines the methyl group would have, the more electron-poor the methyl group would become, thus electronic effects making the methyl-group more electrophylic. Is there something about the fluorenes on the methyl-group that makes the C-O antibonding orbital smaller? Or is the reason behind it just the steric bulk of the fluorene atoms? (I would guess the latter, but I never encountered fluorene chemistry in my research past some basic SNAr reactions, so I am sure you have more insight than I.)
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah - it’s a little bit counterintuitive, but generally fluorine does withdraw electron density from these carbons, but it also reduces the rate of SN2 chemistry. Some examples include CF3I, where it kind of just makes the I more of an I+ instead of am I-, or other examples like PhCF2Br, where the rate of substitution is >10,000 times slower than PhCH2Br - now in terms of the cause, it’s harder to explain, maybe since several factors are involved. In the case of the ethers, both sides of the oxygen are relatively electron deficient, and perhaps that symmetry also plays a role. It could also be caused by steric shielding of the carbon from the fluorines as well.
@trulyinfamous
2 жыл бұрын
Your videos are definitely much too high level chemistry for me to really understand, but the percentage that I do understand is always very interesting.
@waaaaantube
2 жыл бұрын
Good one to watch before taking a shower.
@Petemate69
2 жыл бұрын
Methoxyflurane is commonly used in Australia, known as the green whistle here since basically every ambulance has them for trauma. From my understanding the amount of negative impacts from its use in trauma isn't significant. However for the paramedics administering it they have very stringent guidelines on how to prepare the whistle, how many they can prepare in one shift and the PPE use during preperation as they can receive significant doses. Repeated exposure is the real danger from my understand but its intersting that the FDA has banned it in the US.
@mechadrake
2 жыл бұрын
I think it was bananad because it may be harmful and there are safer alternatives. at least they saw it that way. Others see it differently, as in it is not that dangerous, using it carefully. This is my uneducated guess
@tmzilla
2 жыл бұрын
@@mechadrake The alternative, as far as I am aware, is a huge heavy bottle of Entonox, which isn't always appropriate in a emergency setting.
@CptUseless_TV
2 жыл бұрын
This knowledge does me absolutely zero good, and provides zero value to my current occupation. But I'm still glad I've got it. Thanks for the info, and a sub well earned.
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
"They Had Us In the First Half, I'm Not Gonna Lie"
@Deluge4000
2 жыл бұрын
Congrats on 50K! Been subbed since 10K. I was given a green whistlye type methoxyfluorane when my back siezed up during morning exercise several years ago. It didn't even have any effect on reducing the pain, all it did was taste like a cocktail of metho and whiteboard markers. Toxicity aside, it's kinda funny looking back on it now. (PS. it was interesting learning more about PFAS in this video as well)
@mattflores8911
2 жыл бұрын
Hell yeah50,000 subs, congrats man!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks :)
@albertoguardadocastaneda7354
2 жыл бұрын
I’m a junior in college majoring in anatomy and physiology. Unfortunately it’s too late to major in Chem, but I have a minor in it and I’m chemistry tutor and help teach ochem! I absolutely love chem and I’m so glad I found your channel
@mfree80286
2 жыл бұрын
HF.... still reminds me of the little plastic jar of ammonium bifluoride glass etchant that I used once and stuck in a mason jar on a gut feeling, and found the inside of the jar opaque after a week from HF vapor leaching through the plastic or around the cap seal.
@mmmhorsesteaks
2 жыл бұрын
This would be perfect to put put, say, a magnesium fire. Perfect is maybe not the right word. Interesting, at least.
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
oh heck no - it would be VERY interesting
@cezarcatalin1406
2 жыл бұрын
@@That_Chemist Metal fires are fun in general. Tought you can stop a magnesium fire with dry nitrogen ? Wrong, it can start burning brighter and forming the nitride. The solutions are either let it burn or use argon.
@JukeyPlays
2 жыл бұрын
Congratulations on the big milestone dude!! Your channel has exploded in popularity by tenfold from when I subbed so far, and I’m really glad to see that happen as your content is always interesting and you quickly became one of my favorite content creators Hope the channel expansion continues exponentially, more people need to see your content :) Hope you have a nice day
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you :)
@uiucchemistry2664
2 жыл бұрын
I couldn’t help but stare at the blue octopus stuffed animal sitting on the shelf smiling in the background lmao
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
I hope to replace it with a stuffed grimace
@mineovernutter
2 жыл бұрын
Re: Facecam I like the facecam much more than I expected, very much appreciated! Great video
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback :)
@kiro9291
2 жыл бұрын
this channel deserves way more subs
@LigmaBaldrich
2 жыл бұрын
I love your new style! Definitely keep it up, and you make some really compelling arguments. Edit: Congrats on 50k! Here's to 50k more
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Glad you like it!
@rodrigomack13
2 жыл бұрын
Love this video format
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
thanks! these videos are my favourite to make
@blueberry1c2
2 жыл бұрын
The novec goes to the poop dimension instead of the atmosphere. Isn't modern chemistry great?
@mechadrake
2 жыл бұрын
I prefer it to go into blender dimension.
@jacob1121
2 жыл бұрын
You are such a great presenter, maybe I would have gotten interested in chemistry as a kid if this type of content was available back then.
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
thank you :)
@nagi603
2 жыл бұрын
IIRC at least some of the previous immersion cooling solutions did, in fact, have some small print regarding long-term toxicity or being a carcinogen. ("reach into it with gloves") The best part? Using these in immersion cooling means them evaporate and escape in minute quantities to the datacenter atmosphere. While the air is well-ventillated in DCs, but the technicians sure get a does of it.
@pfadiva
Жыл бұрын
Used to use gallons of Fluorinert FC-770 as a non-conductive heat transfer fluid in electronics. 3M stopped making that because it was an ozone-depleter, substituted Norvec. Seems like that was swapping the witch for the devil, as it were.
@Chemiolis
2 жыл бұрын
We need more fluorine on KZitem!!!
@mechadrake
2 жыл бұрын
and less in enviroment, lol
@Peter_Lustik
2 жыл бұрын
That's your best video up to date imo. Keep it up!
@grapetoad6595
Жыл бұрын
My instinctive reaction when seeing these was "oh my god, that is a lot of fluorine"
@CED99
Жыл бұрын
This is an excellent video, grats on 50k subs
@MrBradshawbenjamin
2 жыл бұрын
Congrats on the 50k!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!!
@peterpanda5069
2 жыл бұрын
Would be fascinated to see a similar discussion of silicones given the sudden explosion of cookware made from them - are they in the queue for problematic persistent organic pollutants?
@warlokyx
2 жыл бұрын
Didn't think of that! But trying to think of anything made out of silicone in the lab, and I am finding it hard to come up with an example... which makes silicone stuff look rather sus...
@cezarcatalin1406
2 жыл бұрын
@@warlokyx silicone is not sus, it’s wonderful actually A mixture of graphite powder and transparent silicon can be used as a coating on copper wires to make them chemically resistant. You can electrolyse sodium chloride aqueous solutions with this for an anode and it just doesn’t die, it works better than platinum !
@mgdurandolo
Жыл бұрын
US Anesthesiologist here - I can't deny a little pride over the hyper-conservative nature of my specialty, compared with the basically under-tested pharmacologic shtshow that is most of allopathic medicine. I think it's because our Society has rigorously focused on closed [legal] claims studies, which identify risk not based on theory but on actual, negative patient outcomes collected from millions of interventions over many years. This retroactive practice has become a proactive one of risk-aversion, where any intervention with even a possible negative outcome pattern is quickly shunted out of protocol when there's a reasonable alternative. This has reduced anesthesiology from one of the most sued, to least sued specialties in all of US medicine over a few decades, and made it one of the safest. All medical specialties in countries everywhere should adopt this mindset IMO.
@Chad-Giga.
4 ай бұрын
Morphine = the gold standard
@cpm1003
2 жыл бұрын
When I was in college, they had a Cray 2 that used a similar liquid for cooling.
@cpm1003
2 жыл бұрын
It was shown to me by Marc Andreesen! I didn't realize the significance at the time.
@elvida17
Жыл бұрын
I wasn't originally going to watch this video, as I felt the title didn't say what was in it. I ended up watching it randomly and it was really interesting! Anything perfluoronated definitely makes warning bells go off in my head. As a chemical engineering student (who's nearly done) I just did a semester project on separating PFOS from ground water in water treatment facilities. We definitely have methods that can do this (IX resins, membrane filtration, adsorption methods etc.) and it's a matter of costs and logistics (granulated activated carbon can be used for low concentrations of PFOS (theoretically), but man that's a lot of GAC you need to buy + reactivation costs for thermal decomposition) on top of that treating wastewater and drinking is such a small part of the problem! Of course it's good that we can prevent more from going into the environment that way, but PFAS compounds are just widely used in general and then we have a bioaccumulation crisis anyway. This week as a example it was found that a majority of organic eggs sold in Denmark contained PFAS compounds over the limit value likely do to fodder composition and PFAS contamination. I am just shocked at the audacity of 3M to be calling their Novec products environmentally friendly and non-toxic, where the fuck is their data on that? The current model of "it's fine to use this until the opposite proves true" is just problematic. We've seen again and again in history that bioaccumulation happens, that compounds we thought were fine breakdown into persistent in the environment compounds :/
@Sickdudenomnomnom
Жыл бұрын
This shit is what keeps me in organic chemistry. Great hypothesis with mechanistic explanation. Love it
@That_Chemist
Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@verdatum
11 ай бұрын
Mere months after this video was made, 3M announced they would stop making Novec, Fluorinert, and all other perfluoroalkyl substances and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) in 2025. I got to play with Fluorinert at an NSA open-house event in the mid 90s. It feels unlike anything I've ever touched before or since. And yeah, it's supposedly the stuff used in the film The Abyss that, if oxygenated, could be theoretically used to descend to absurdly deep pressure levels without the lungs collapsing. or risk of crush-depth, though in reality that usage is almost certainly completely impractical.
@chicken1117
2 жыл бұрын
nice job at 50k, still growing fast!!
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@Zappygunshot
Жыл бұрын
I like this channel, and the content you make. I mostly stick to the _Chempolations_ because haha funny/oh no stories, but every so often I take a peek into the more in-depth stuff. It's usually pretty dense jargon-wise (which, I mean, I'm the one who asked for it so), but I've got just enough high school + casual interest education to get the gist of things. It's nice, makes me feel both smart and like I'm learning a lot, energy consuming though it may be. This video is actually a perfect example of _juuust_ riding that line between 'oh cool nice learn' and 'nope too complicated back to watching kittens falling off stuff.' Like, I can't tell just by looking at a molecular formula what it's likely going to do, but I can surmise from the context (HF big bad no-no, and molecule attached to kidney.jpg no thank you) that something is bad/good/dangerous/fine/option-E-all-of-the-above. Long story short, so many words to say thanks for sharing your research and helping people learn!
@That_Chemist
Жыл бұрын
This type of content straddling that line is *exactly* the type of content I want to make - I hope you enjoy them :)
@allangibson8494
Жыл бұрын
HF is nasty. It is also a byproduct of the manufacturing of some phosphate products as Moroccan phosphate rock as substantial fluoride contamination so when it is dissolved with hydrochloric acid you get hydrofluoric acid off as a byproduct that is then neutralised by adding calcium chloride to make calcium fluoride glass(if the scrubber is working… If it isn’t you get airborne fluoride poisoning…).
@myuzu_
Жыл бұрын
Love this presentation, as a non-chemist it's like being able to sit in on a technical meeting that you normally would be excluded from because your 10 years of industry experience isn't a 4 year degree in an unrelated engineering field.
@prjndigo
Жыл бұрын
I used to do pest control, there's a nice product called "Bifen XTS".... one of its inert ingredients is "petrolium distilates" but basically it's a blend of 25.1% Bifenthrin and the rest is tolulene and other stuff. The emulsifier in it can turn your fingernails into jello with just water. This stuff can be sprayed neat from the bottle at ULV in a modified leaf blower and absolutely detonate like a rocket engine/hair spray can. On the labels you're told how to use it and what the pesticides(/herbicides etc) are and it could contain vinyl chloride, elephant love hormones, rocket fuel and Cycasin but the non-pesticides are just called "inert ingredients" even if they toxify, carry it through skin and make it vaporize like iodine...
@californium-2526
2 жыл бұрын
Only so much for inertness. Novec 7100 makes perfluoroalkoxides in tertiary amines and Novec 649/1230 (likely) combines with amines and alcohols to form the adducts (aminals and ketals). En- and isofluoranes will likely make Grignards at -78°C (using iodine as activator) (as they have a C-Cl bond). Then there's the problem that they look close to "forever chemicals". However, as Tom said, the atmosphere is the nature's bin.
@Antonio-qm3bi
2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video man, that's why I'm following this channel... I have to say, no substance is exempt from being inert. It has been shown that even noble gases react. Whether the reaction rate is eternally slow or electronically unfavorable is something else, but it doesn't leave anyone out of danger. It is not a good idea to use fluorine compounds without safety, especially when their long-term properties, their weaknesses, their decomposition products, etc. are unknown. No one knows of possible reactions that are catalyzed by metal ions, for example. An airtight recirculating tank from Novec that has been cooling an electronic server for a long time should not be uncovered without a problem. I would expect to find fluorinated organic acids, ketones, and even hydrogen fluoride. Remember that in the Middle Ages mercury and lead were "safe" and used as medicines
@c.Orange
Жыл бұрын
"3M, where does all the Novec go?" "to the chemical heaven up there, to keep company to the ozone layer, cant have it be lonely now can we?.
@caphunterx2322
2 жыл бұрын
I work in waste water treatment and PFAS are a huge problem, gen x in particular because it's used alot close by. 3M in Belgium and a teflon production facility in Dordrecht (Netherlands) produce a lot of PFAS, which in terms is send to Indaver a waste destruction company. Indaver says it's burning the PFAS but analyses show it's dumping water in the river nearby and probably in the air as part of the burning process, the Belgium government told them to cut down the amounts they are allowed to dump in the river (0,1mg/L) which is way to high because its quite toxic at those levels in the human body. Anyway there is a big lawsuit going on for years, and they can't really close Indaver because huge amounts of the industry rely on them to destruct waste. But yeh it's so bad we can detect it in our wastewater even 100km away..
@stevengill1736
2 жыл бұрын
Good grief, so gnarly! I'll stick with halothane .... I guess. But it makes one wonder about these "safe" solvents like the Novecs. Seriously, thanks for the heads up... I'd already been informed about the dangers of methoxyflurane,thank goodness. Addenum: then there's Fluosol-DA, that fluorocarbon aqueous mix that let mice breathe underwater, and stnthetic blood plasma, another perfluoro mix ...
@Linguae_Music
Жыл бұрын
Oh shit I didnt realize it was you when i clicked on the thumbnail... then you started talking and it blew my mind xp
@user255
2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Really interesting. I think you should do video about compounds that *should* have bad reputation. Or about compounds that deserve people to be more suspicious about them.
@midwestchem368
2 жыл бұрын
I'm dying to work with HF or fluorine containing compounds an amateur but my will to live is stronger lol That Chemist: works with HF Me: *jaw drops dropping pipette from mouth*
@unexpected2475
2 жыл бұрын
...spilling lots of minty DCM all over your floor.
@SeanCMonahan
2 жыл бұрын
"dying to work with HF" vs. "working with HF to die"
@laratheplanespotter
2 жыл бұрын
I’ll bring up the Novec solvents with my toxicology professor. I’ll ask her, if you’d like?
@That_Chemist
2 жыл бұрын
sounds good!
@laratheplanespotter
Жыл бұрын
@@That_Chemist I had a class with her today and forgot 🫣
@robmacl7
2 жыл бұрын
I loved this video, and your others about chemicals at could run into, the mycotoxins, drugs, etc. I'm not a chemist and don't plan to become one, but it's very interesting to see biochem thinking in action, and even just to learn practical chemical terminology in-situ.
@pipolwes000
2 жыл бұрын
The clip art kidney molecular structure diagrams made me smile :)
@cat-.-
2 жыл бұрын
A molecule i found especially troubling has the following formula: 3M
@Hezkun
2 жыл бұрын
They should rename 3M to ∞F, bc they're crazy for fluorination
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