Bruce Timm: You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain
@TheKeyser94
7 жыл бұрын
Or see your audience become puritans idiots that totally disregard what is already in the comics, and then act morally righteous when you do the same stuff.
@Grnvolpe
7 жыл бұрын
What if I were to tell you there's more than one person guilty of a moral crime?
@Grnvolpe
7 жыл бұрын
Mats Martensson Ok besides sounding like you have personal issues that aren't being addressed, I think you're caught up on the word "crime". We could use other words like moral indiscretion but the point stands
@Grnvolpe
7 жыл бұрын
Crime and Laws aren't "myths" they're social constructs and that doesn't make them any less real than a punch to the face. ANd why are we even on this tangent? This has nothing to do with the original discussion
@Grnvolpe
7 жыл бұрын
Are you making me part of some weird psycho-sexual role-play? Because if you are; no thank you
@geralt7511
7 жыл бұрын
Grace keep in mind that Batman the animated series was so great because of the Great Paul Dini.
@MrOnomatopoiea
7 жыл бұрын
And I believe Alan Burnett who also worked on the animated Superman show is an underrated genius!
@geralt7511
7 жыл бұрын
Yes everyone behind it was great, i just don't get why Bruce Timm went so low.
@stanklepoot
7 жыл бұрын
Nightwing wasn't the only one that got raped. If you recall the introduction of Damian Wayne, it turns out that Talia got pregnant by drugging Batman and having her way with him.
@handler8838
7 жыл бұрын
Whats with the manrape in the Batmanverse?
@xvs8675
7 жыл бұрын
stanklepoot Her problem is with Harley Quinn doing the raping, not necessarily the fact that a male comic charcater is getting raped.
@stanklepoot
7 жыл бұрын
I didn't mention it to point out the fact that a man was raped, but to point out another major character was raped. Someone else brought up the term manrape.
@xvs8675
7 жыл бұрын
+stanklepoot Fair enough. However, my point was that Grace wasn't really focusing on the fact that a character was raped. She was focusing on the fact that Harley was doing something like rape, which betrays what the charcater is, see?
@stanklepoot
7 жыл бұрын
I understand, and I agree completely. My comment was in reference to her additional discussion of questionable sexual/sexual assault storylines that have taken place. That just seemed like an important one to me.
@MsAbbie101
7 жыл бұрын
I agree 110% with everything you said! It's like Bruce Timm sits down, stretches out his fingers and says, "Alright, who can I make sleep with who this time?"
@MagicHurdlez
7 жыл бұрын
Clearly Bruce Timm needs Paul Dini
@TheProHotWheeler
7 жыл бұрын
Naya Holloway my thoughts exactly!
@anamount701
7 жыл бұрын
I agree. Paul Dini created Harley. He's a writer and balanced out Bruce Timmy, the artist.
@MagicHurdlez
7 жыл бұрын
Winter Naomi Vera I think thats a very great comparison
@KingOfMadCows
7 жыл бұрын
Except Paul Dini worked on Batman Beyond with Bruce Timm. Dini was one of the three main series writers when they introduced the idea of Barbara and Bruce having had a romance. Timm didn't even write any of the episodes, he mostly did the character designs, storyboards, and he produced the show. Dini also wrote Return of the Joker, where Harley helped Joker torture and brainwash Tim Drake. So he was the one who made Harley more vicious and irredeemable. So you can't put the blame on Timm while heaping all the praise on Dini when Dini was likely more responsible for the decisions you didn't like.
@boomstickcritique902
7 жыл бұрын
Nearly every body likes Return of the Joker.That film and Batman Beyond arent the problem the only thing people dont like is the forced sexual relationships that a character like batman from the animated series clearly wouldnt have.The romance is still Tims idea and wouldnt be there if not for him.
@gregfoster3757
4 жыл бұрын
bruce timm said the batman beyond comics are not cannon he had no involvment with them
@rubenmenjares8480
7 жыл бұрын
In the Injustice comics Harley also helped Joker kill Lois Lane as well as almost every person in metropolis...so yeah
@dennisjeppesen9387
7 жыл бұрын
"I wish someone would break all of Bruce Timm's pencils". That is hilarious. I hope someone shows this video to Bruce Timm.
@sorrowsuperstar10
7 жыл бұрын
I can imagine grace doing that in a fit
@hkaos
7 жыл бұрын
Nightwing slept with Barbara Gordon and then invited her to his wedding to Starfire... He's been a sleazeball.
@eggsbenedictcucumberbatch4336
7 жыл бұрын
J if you actually read that comic, you'll know the situation was different.
@BeyondTheTrailer
7 жыл бұрын
? People invite exes to their weddings. Just because he and Barbara slept together doesn't mean they're stuck together for life.
@hkaos
7 жыл бұрын
By "and then" I mean directly after. Eggs Benedict Cucumberbatch, different how?
@hkaos
7 жыл бұрын
Just re-read it. In the interest of accuracy, it was an engagement announcement. Nightwing (1996) Annual 2, if you're interested.
@alexh4319
7 жыл бұрын
J oh that's interesting.
@mr.k2085
7 жыл бұрын
Anyone else think that Harley is absolutely not an anti-hero??? Someone who murders good innocent people and help torture a kid is not a hero or anti-hero in anyway. I mean cmon she's a villain and will always be a villain. She was never good even before meeting the Joker
@zombiethieves3736
7 жыл бұрын
zee ilyas She means Harley raping someone is out of character, not that she hasn't killed people and she's a saint.
@marauteatime
7 жыл бұрын
What rape? Did you see any rape, because I sure as hell didn't. She might as well say Sherlock Holmes wss raped when he was knocked out and handcuffed naked to a bed.
@giovannigiovanni.7220
7 жыл бұрын
zee ilyas Not in comics history in Animated series history.
@carlbloke8797
7 жыл бұрын
Billinare 88 you obviously never read the comics if you believe this
@ajjackson100
7 жыл бұрын
I don't think you remember, but Dick as Nightwing in Timms universe was a bit of a dick. Especially after he found out that Barbra was batgirl and Bruce knew about it, both Barbra and Bruce kept that from dick. This really hardened Dicks perspective on everything.
@SirDoubleYou
7 жыл бұрын
Anthony Jackson Either it's my dirty mind or I feel like you kinda made a dirty joke with that last sentence... could just be my dirty mind
@teslastweakin
7 жыл бұрын
*Hardened Dicks perspective* HOLY SHI.... *We are experiencing a bit of trouble comprehending this amazing joke*
@jp8.studios391
7 жыл бұрын
Agree 100% with Grace. I don't know why Bruce Timm is hyping the sexuality of these characters and turning it into his own little fantasy, but I hope that someone is over seeing him. He is basically trying to turn Harley Quinn into his own sexual puppet.
@dannaponce8671
7 жыл бұрын
i hate how bruce timm made barbara and bruce a thing
@spencermalley10
6 жыл бұрын
Everyone should.
@theEJRD
7 жыл бұрын
The Lesson for today: People that write for Batman, go crazy in few years.
@skywriter9532
7 жыл бұрын
I totally thought Grace was gonna say break his fingers in the beginning lol! I was gonna be like damnnnnn!
@AceLM92
7 жыл бұрын
This is what happens when you don't have Paul Dini writing
@NivlekM1
7 жыл бұрын
It's sad because there's no way Bruce Timm hasn't heard any of these critics but still he seems to be appealing to his own dirty and unguided fantasies with these characters.
@justicierodelaliga
7 жыл бұрын
Paul Dini said on the Special Features of The Batman The Animated Series Volume 4 that Harley and Ivy were meant to be like sisters and nothing else.
@MissionGrey
7 жыл бұрын
You were not wrong on her voice. From the short amount I hear, it reminds me of Howard Wolowitz mom's voice, and not in a good way.
@BeyondTheTrailer
7 жыл бұрын
Oh good call, yes re Wolowitz's mom. I'd have had her audition for sure, but once I heard it I would've gone with someone else.
@MissionGrey
7 жыл бұрын
It is interesting too you mentioned that there is so much anger, and thats actually one of my dislikes of where they have taken her character in BBT. I think you can get so much more depth from a character when its not based only on emotion (particularly anger).
@r_o_y3419
7 жыл бұрын
Sid Varg An erection is not consent. Stimulation is going to cause an erection but that doesn't mean that person wants to. I'm not sure what's politically correct about that.
@MissionGrey
7 жыл бұрын
@Sid - Political correctness has nothing to do with her comments, that is a straw man argument. You comment is inherently flawed. Based on your premise, are you saying a ugly woman can rape a man? Can a woman rape a gay man? If a man (thank you Grace for commenting on this) or woman is placed against their choice of will that they have sex, that is rape. Our biological anatomy have nothing to do with it, nor does "destiny".
@Tebigong101
7 жыл бұрын
Men get erections in their sleep does that mean pillows and duvets turn them on... demonizing sex, where? I'm sure in whatever gross circles you travel in this is fine, but in mixed normal company, it's called repugnant and immoral.
@BitzuMC
7 жыл бұрын
"Why did Bruce Timm become such a terrible writer?" "Well.. I mean... He got horny?" - This whole situation in a nutshell. I can't fucking believe that the same guy who built up our childhoods also managed to spit on our childhood and say "Fuck you."
@carrastealth
7 жыл бұрын
I really don't want Harley Quinn as an "anti-hero" anyway. I like her more as a villain and 'power couple' with the Joker, as opposed to 'misguided victim'. Her as a power couple with the Joker or Poison Ivy instead of the weak minded one, as instead someone that makes her own decisions and sticks to them, is a Harley Quinn I much prefer as opposed to someone whom is defined by her abuse and the people who take advantage of her. Harley Quinn's ultimate potential in the comics was that she could be one of the best villains Gotham had ever seen but was held back due to the people who used her. Her fully embracing the Villain role and instead being part of a power couple with either the Joker, Poison Ivy, Both or able to do things on her own, is something I like a lot more, and it particularly makes it more meaningful when she decides to do the "right" thing, it's because she decided to, not cause she's "drawn to the light". less victim, more mystique. I don't want a victimized deadpool wannabe anti-hero mary sue Harley Quinn, and honestly them pushing that even to the point of writing the Joker out of character just to make it happen and pushed a mary sue'ness to a new level is what sank her character in New52. So if they are going for "villainous" Harley Quinn that makes her own decisions whether right or wrong, and isn't a victim of circumstance, that's a Harley Quinn I like, because it means when she does the right thing, it was her choice, not cause she's constantly fighting between the light and the dark, and the people who she cares for. I prefer Harley Quinn as her own woman, and someone who mentally can be on equal footing with some of the best villains of Gotham, and whom is a power couple whenever she is with Joker or Ivy. Much more endearing to me as opposed to the "anti-hero victim" that has defined her. It's time for SHE to define herself, and not be defined by others. That would make her decisions she actually makes feel a lot less fleeting and meaningful imo.
@juannunez5767
7 жыл бұрын
Some artists need to have limitations placed on them for them to do their best. I think there were two major factors in Bruce Timm’s success that he is missing right now. One, is that he was collaborating with a lot of super talented people like Paul Dini, Shirley Walker, Alan Burnett, and many others. The DCAU was a team effort. Two, having to work in a TV-PG enviroment kind of forced Bruce Timm to focus on non-sexy-time stories. That limitation freed him to actually do his best work.
@henrymitchell2312
7 жыл бұрын
Already wished you on Twitter but Happy birthday grace!!!!!
@BeyondTheTrailer
7 жыл бұрын
Thank u, Henry!!! :)
@eggsbenedictcucumberbatch4336
7 жыл бұрын
Beyond The Trailer oh it's your birthday, I had no idea. Happy birthday, I hope your day goes great.
@ClayMann
7 жыл бұрын
Sorry godda interrupt here. That username is brilliant. Please tell me you came up with that and if so, where is the avatar to support it? lol
@ClayMann
7 жыл бұрын
orig11.deviantart.net/9f69/f/2012/125/f/e/eggs_benedict_cumberbatch_by_helenn127-d4yn0s9.jpg haha am I just the last one in the room to have heard this? that's godda be your avatar! lol
@ibbydm9310
7 жыл бұрын
we have the same birthday, Grace!
@BeckyLStoutWriter
7 жыл бұрын
But if you break his pencils, he'll just start using pens! Just to make you mad! ;)
@davidsalinas6393
7 жыл бұрын
they should've just made Paul Dini the writer. Bruce sucks at writing.
@echelongirl9685
7 жыл бұрын
YES! DINI FOREVER! I wish he can come back to write comics tho so bye bye Palmiotti and Conner craps and Harley could be fixed.
@aozorahaou2643
6 жыл бұрын
I'm starting to feel that Paul Dini was the one to keep Bruce Timm in check.
@RegulatorJoe
7 жыл бұрын
It does bother me how Harley has gotten off pretty easy with fans and in the comics for all the crap she did with Joker. I don't think its all that the devil made her do it
@TheEnigmaticBM39
7 жыл бұрын
Joe's Home Theater because she was abused by the joker...it excuses being evil and killing people and such
@nickholcomb2220
7 жыл бұрын
Altiar Beezelbub they probably tag team raped people.
@boomstickcritique902
7 жыл бұрын
Its just because guys think the character is hot.Dudes have a problem of looking past that.
@arandombard1197
7 жыл бұрын
They are just picture books for children.
@TheEnigmaticBM39
7 жыл бұрын
Random Ashe uh....no they aren't..
@llMllEll
7 жыл бұрын
I thought at the beginning she was going to say " I wish someone would break all of Bruce timm's fingers " but she settled with "pencils" 😅😆
@ColorMeDoubleZ
7 жыл бұрын
Eh, the actual sex isn't the problem; I've always seen harley as a pretty sexually active character which is fine; but yeah i do agree that some of the recent stories by timm have been pretty poor. But that's due to just shitty writing and shock value
@ColorMeDoubleZ
7 жыл бұрын
why not?
@ColorMeDoubleZ
7 жыл бұрын
No one is saying rape is good bro, I don't think you know what you're arguing against and I'm not sure if you're being ironic or not
@xanderm6090
7 жыл бұрын
Ivy and Harley became lovers. It isn't just random sexual scenes with a friend.
@sirtoby4939
7 жыл бұрын
Wow. Sharks are getting jumped all over the place. Timm isn't just ruining his own legacy, but that of Batman TAS. Taking what used to be a pretty serious depiction of domestic abuse and victimhood and turning it into fodder for the hentai section of pornhub... Fucks sake. On a happier note, happy birthday Grace. I hope you enjoy being 29.
@MarioUcomics
7 жыл бұрын
They said this isn't canon to the 90's animated series Grace. I know it's confusing since they are really harking back to that art style. I wish they would have changed the look if it's not in the same universe
@murder101storytime
7 жыл бұрын
there's a better look trailer and they flat out say this isn't cannon to the DCAU so this Harley wasn't necessarily involved with the Tim Drake bit. I kinda figured that when Batman was being so mean and harsh to her when if it were DCAU they'd already have worked together and Batman would have learned she's not a bad person on the inside.
@Sharkgirl94
7 жыл бұрын
well at least we now know that paul dini was the true mastermind of BatmanTAS etc
@mikea7076
7 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, the same Paul Dini who wrote mediocre crap for Ultimate Spider-man, and Hulk agents of S.M.A.S.H. The same Paul Dini who ruined Ivy so badly with Detective Comics it took New 52 to save her onto a project where she's being shipped and teaming up with the man who raped and tortured her.
@brandinoiii4293
7 жыл бұрын
@Michael Abramov what happened ro poison ivy? :(
@spencermalley10
6 жыл бұрын
Mike A Nobody's perfect but he's still better than Timm.
@cataciudad9938
7 жыл бұрын
When I first saw the trailer, I thought it would be a nice nostalgia punch to the fans of the animated series. I haven't watch the movie yet, but after hearing the horrible things that Bruce Timm is doing I don't think I'll be watching the movie at all. Same thing happened with The Killing Joke. Barbara Gordon has always been one of my favourite chatracters, but she kind of turned into the joke here. The first time Nightwing was raped was awful enough, but it happening again and *for the sake of comedy* is just tasteless and offensive. And they erasing the fact that Harley is a victim like they did in Suicide Squad is, once again, extremely sad. Like you said in the Judas Contract review, Grace, we should be grateful that Bruce Timm wasn't in charge of that movie too. The Batfamily + Teen Titans movies are the only hope for DC and their failed attempts to rise again to success.
@thebuckrogers22
7 жыл бұрын
I remember reading somewhere that Paul said Bruce timm loves drawing sexy women. I assumed big boobs but now I see what Paul means
@alexandersmith7061
4 жыл бұрын
Let me ask a question: if Harley was tied to the bed, and Nightwing said “Too Late”, then turned off the lights, would it still be okay?
@ESTComicsEvolutions
3 жыл бұрын
both are rape. (But its more in character for Harley Quinn than Nightwing.)
@ultimatepancakegeek2205
7 жыл бұрын
“You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain” - This is the story of Bruce Timm
@Scrapluv
7 жыл бұрын
NW: "Don't get any funny ideas" HQ: "Too late" *clicks off light... throws on costume... heads out the door*
@slmndw
7 жыл бұрын
It's a shame that so many recent DC animated properties lack the sophistication that Batman TAS and Justice League had. It seems like the studio restrictions are something that Bruce Timm needs because he can easily go off the rails. lol
@GcorpCoPrez
7 жыл бұрын
Solomon Dow to me only batman tas, superman, justice league and batman beyond are canon in my eyes.
@slmndw
7 жыл бұрын
My thoughts exactly!
@cesarrivera8626
7 жыл бұрын
"Keep it in your spandex Nightwing" bahahaha
@dannyneiba
7 жыл бұрын
Don't see the problem here Grace. Bruce has some good stuff
@thedankone245
7 жыл бұрын
I'm also pretty sure that's not the worst thing he's done to the characters.
@frankasonka1589
7 жыл бұрын
Hello Grace! I really enjoy your videos all the from Zambia! I do have a question about this, though it's a little off topic... why don't the DC animated movies get as much attention from the media etc as the live action movies, despite the fact that a lot of time they are really really good?? 🤔 Thanks in advance! 🤓
@eggsbenedictcucumberbatch4336
7 жыл бұрын
Fran Kasonka I know it's not addressed to me but the marketing budget for live action movies is a lot more than what it actually costs to make the animated movies and probably more than what the animated movies would make.
@O1993-f8u
7 жыл бұрын
I find this story unintentionally hilarious. The hero having sex with the villains sounds like something out of a porn parody. I bet the porn parody for this film is just the extended edition.
@gustavvigolo4480
7 жыл бұрын
meanwhile people say zack snyder are ruining dc characters.....wehn bruce time does this, very happy he never lead the DCEU
@captainamerica6545
7 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@PaddyOfReilly007
5 жыл бұрын
He's just being true to the Comic's Grace. Women in the Comic's universe have always been Sexualised with their ample assets. It's about time we get a true to comics live action movie.
@watchingrob
7 жыл бұрын
Yeah none of this sounds good :( Dont fuck up the great characters!
@watchingrob
7 жыл бұрын
Well, just saw the sneak peek, doesnt look too bad actually. Except for the hand gestures scene at the end.
@walmartinc4944
7 жыл бұрын
SHUT UP
@watchingrob
7 жыл бұрын
Ok?
@abdizur8765
7 жыл бұрын
watchingrob Too late... :\
@Jaguar2877
7 жыл бұрын
I love how people are saying Bruce Timm has fallen, but he created Justice League Gods and Monsters recently; which happens to be a fantastic movie. People need to come off their high horses and quit trying to completely trash creators nowadays. Especially when they themselves have most likely never worked a day in the industry; or create anything in their lives. Artist have been fighting the creative uphill battle of censorship and against society for centuries now. This guy helped birthed and define the original DC Animated Universe; people would be wise to show him some respect and not jump at the chance to slander him.
@TJUC123
7 жыл бұрын
Just notices that Melissa Rauch and Margot Robbie have the same initials.
@thubelihlezondi5822
7 жыл бұрын
I didn't pick that up either. Thanks.
@b4thewar540
7 жыл бұрын
Besides the remarks about Nightwing, who I think has always had some degree of fuckboy-ish sleaziness to make his character more real and susceptible, I agree bout the Harley Quinn stuff 100%, idk why Bruce Timm thinks making his movies 'more adult' means 'more sexualization' but either way doing it in the style of my beloved childhood cartoon just makes me all the more uncomfortable when seeing it.
@brancorocks
7 жыл бұрын
Is it just me or nightwing is just weirdly creepy and sexually hyper in this movie from the little they have shown it just does not make any sense but I would disagree a bit when it comes to Harley cause she's always had that hyped up sexual nature within her quirky but fun but putting her in a twist with nightwing is just wrong in my opinion
@snoozemachine
7 жыл бұрын
Even Grace understands how problematic that Pepsi commercial is. DO PEOPLE NOT THINK BEFORE DOING THINGS!
@jasonstewart650
7 жыл бұрын
I agree the Batman/Batgirl sex stuff needs to go, but Harley character has evolved from the Animated Series. Maybe she needs a new motivating factor but she is no longer just "MIstah J's" girlfriend.
@NickonPlanetRipple
7 жыл бұрын
I'm starting to think the restrictions of having to keep these stories relatively kid friendly in the past is the only think that kept the quality consistent.
@randomman4797
7 жыл бұрын
Grace, weird question but what is the worst trailer you have ever seen??
@randomman4797
7 жыл бұрын
Just interested
@Triggermatic87
7 жыл бұрын
This guys artwork is pretty dirty😂 Grace is getting 4th wall with it🔥
@briquinn6967
7 жыл бұрын
I agree with you Grace they are messing up my favorite character
@AidanB
7 жыл бұрын
THEY PUT HER AND LOBO TOGETHER?! I've been shipping them for ages I had no idea
@eggsbenedictcucumberbatch4336
7 жыл бұрын
he's ruining my childhood. oh and I'm glad you're talking about it Grace, others might just ignore it.
@brianwolfman313
7 жыл бұрын
Eggs Benedict Cucumberbatch then don't watch it.
@maxlevin6167
7 жыл бұрын
He created it. So he can ruin it.
@eggsbenedictcucumberbatch4336
7 жыл бұрын
dead man then don't reply to my comments.
@itchyelbows5653
7 жыл бұрын
Eggs Benedict Cucumberbatch bit sad if you think he's "ruining your childhood"
@eggsbenedictcucumberbatch4336
7 жыл бұрын
Max Levin he didn't create it. Paul Dini and Bruce Timm created it and he can't go off on his own and mess it up.
@skullninjaraptor
7 жыл бұрын
as far as I'm concerned Harley is Joker's lady and that's it
@danyul4u186
7 жыл бұрын
Damn why does everyone wanna rape Nightwing lmao. First tarantula and now Harley Quinn!
@MagmAlex
7 жыл бұрын
This man is going to single handedly ruin millions of childhoods
@KraypayJR
7 жыл бұрын
I listened to her voice and she's sounds like some stereotypical mom in her 40's that doesn't pay attention to her kids and act's way younger then she is. like the mom in Matilda or something. Such a shame I was so excited for this movie.
@kevinth86
7 жыл бұрын
Miss Randolph is absolutely right with the points she is making ....
@AstaIsAMonster
7 жыл бұрын
The comic was great and it worked better in the comic but when he did it in the killing joke it was just badly written it was bad and made batgirl fucking stupid in that movie that pissed me off and they missed up the killing joke and know I am 50/50 on this new movie I agree with some of the things U are saying about this new movie and disagree with some things u are saying but keep up the great work grace
@AstaIsAMonster
7 жыл бұрын
And I didn't like who is playing Harley's Quinn her voice actress doesn't work for Harley
@CynderSpirit
7 жыл бұрын
The movie was made more as a Batgirl story of her quitting and getting shot then instead it actually being a Joker story.It's possible to turn a short story into a good movie material if done correctly. The Killing Joke was all about The Joker and should have remained that way in the comics the story was set in Jokers point of view of how he became the way he is and how far he is lost in his own madness that it's impossible for him to change and by the end of the comic you start to see a little humanity in when he talks to Batman but only for a that last moment. If someone were to just keep it as that it would have been a better movie.
@imbatmanhi3363
7 жыл бұрын
i want what Bruce timm was smoking when he came up with the name paris franz lol jk
@cooljohnny9402
7 жыл бұрын
Everyone complaining about the plot, but no one is hyped for the artstyle!! Batman Beyond and the original Animated Series were the shmeeet!!! Damn, love that arstyle.
@Yukosan13
7 жыл бұрын
I feel that if the ship was batman and Harley, then that be better.. because she sometimes flirts with him. . and he often knows how to manipulate Harley towards his own goals. I don't think nightwing belongs in this movie.. its just werid because nightwing is a solo hero.. who wanted to separated himself from batman and in this movie it looks like nightwing has become robin all over again? (plus a Harley movie without Mr J..?! total disappointment 😦👎)
@echelongirl9685
7 жыл бұрын
Batman belongs to Selina! Harley will always belongs to J! I don't care what some people say or of all this shit...I ignore that. Harley just sucks without J! I can't understand why they don't put them again together...I mean ok, the part of the abuse from both sides, but now is gone. They are both changed, J in good way, Harley in worse but the point is...Now would be nice if they could get a comparison and this time try to make work the things, for real be, getting equality. Also for Lucy's good! That baby makes me cry. J cares about her while Harley pretends don't exist and that's not my Harley. I can't stand her anymore. She looks so inhuman. XD
@Tobanaman
7 жыл бұрын
Is Timm only doing the art or is he doing the writing for this new Harley movie and that Batgirl movie? If so than that's pretty damning. He worked wonders on BTAS but if he is the one behind all these sex scenes then he really is doing a huge disservice to the franchise and the fans
@wdeemarwdeemar8739
7 жыл бұрын
She has a MD. She is crazy she will do all kinds of crazy things.
@Charathlie
7 жыл бұрын
I didn't like this idea just because it seems like a cash grab, but you brought up even more reasons why this is gonna be a disaster
@Whatzupwitu19
7 жыл бұрын
Not even gonna bother watching is piece of trash fanfiction that Timm wrote. He's being to be like Marc Guggenheim in some dreadful aspects. (If you know what I mean.) Timm already did this on The Killing Joke animated film. Which was a comic, supposed to be centered on Batman and Joker. But no! He just had to ruin the whole story by that god awful added scene between Barbara and Bruce. Keep Bruce Timm away from DC characters, please.
@MaxIronsThird
7 жыл бұрын
Bruce Timm needs a wake up call from his fellow Paul Dini, Dark Night.
@mattyxbones13
7 жыл бұрын
I wish they would just... ugh. I don't even know anymore. I agree with everything you said, Grace.
@sunbro6998
7 жыл бұрын
Shitting on great characters, that have been developed over years.
@HisameArtwork
7 жыл бұрын
We'll it's their intellectual property, technically they have every right to do what they want and it probably sells better that what us few like. I'm not going to buy or even watch this new Batman animation, but I'm sure they will make money from other people. As a comic book writer myself, I'm telling you: deep, though provoking, non sexy stuff ...heaven forbid educational...is a super hard sell and a niche product...I'd starve if I only did what I liked.
@brandinoiii4293
7 жыл бұрын
@Hisame Artwork Your a comicbook writer? how do you get in the business?
@marauteatime
7 жыл бұрын
Beyond The Trailer Bimbo: I'm going to try to tie this movie in with the animated series, just so I can say that it sucks. Jim Krieg: This is a strange red headed nephew of Batman The Animated Series. But don't show it to your kids thinking that it is Batman The Animated Series. It is it's own thing. Beyond The Trailer Bimbo: Rape! They are obviously pointing to rape in the film with Nightwing tied up! Me: Have you ever watched a cool little movie called Sherlock Holmes, where Sherlock is knocked out and cuffed to a bed naked? That doesn't imply rape. Neither does what Harley says after, despite your twisting of it. Someone needs to slap the stupid outta ya.
@thedankone245
7 жыл бұрын
marauteatime In Sherlock Holmes,she didn't say anything rapey before he lost consiousness.Hell,he was drugged.Nightwing is handcuffed saying"Don't get any bright ideas."And she replies"Too late?"Sometimes anything can happen.And if someone is restrained while someone else has many things they could do,why would you debunk rape so easily,when that's most likely to happen?Unless anybody knows,nothing can be sure,but this is actually a reasonable argument.
@generalreiko1305
7 жыл бұрын
I just sick of harley everyfuckingwere
@sunbro6998
7 жыл бұрын
And without the Joker, which is kinda the point.
@hamhockbeans
7 жыл бұрын
Captain Boomerang They already made her Harley Hooker now look what they are doing.
@sunbro6998
7 жыл бұрын
***** and that is the problem. Being with the Joker defined her, to a large extant. And with her removed from him, it really isn't Harley. This was not supposed to be an uplifting romance, but a kind of bonnie and clyde fatal romance.
@echelongirl9685
7 жыл бұрын
THANK YOU. That's why i fucking hate Palmiotti and Conner! They ruined everything and totally, Harley. I lost hopes to fix things...I don't care anymore about her. XD
@sunbro6998
7 жыл бұрын
***** Harley was "created" by the Joker. If the authors really want her to be separate from the joker, they should call the character Harleen, you know. Her name before the joker. Harley is defined by the Joker, another of his victims.
@rosabellatan9032
7 жыл бұрын
Please tell me Where to watch batman and harley quinn sneak peek watch online? Please I cannot find anywhere in online .. 😥
@Night-Mayor
7 жыл бұрын
Is Harley Quinn innocent? She can't be, as she was complicit to some of the Joker's most vile crimes. Is she a victim? Mad Love, Harley's Origin story written by Bruce Timm, shows that Harley used sex to improve her grade in college. To Harley sex is a tool to getting what she wanted. She also used it for love and for fun. She's normal. We aren't all about having sex for love only and only with acceptable people. Batman was one of the first if not the first hero to have a relationship with a villain, Catwoman. Since then it has become a trope. Rape by a villain. This is a situation that is rare in the comic book universes. Heck I can't think of many heroes that even go after rapists. It seems to me that the scene with Nightwing and Harley was played for laughs. In the real world, heroes that get tied up just get shot in the head. Heroines aren't unmasked or sexually assaulted by villains. That's part of the fantasy. Nothing truly bad is going to happen. However, when we do cross that line we get some truly memorable stories. Superheroes girlfriends could be threatened and put in danger but never killed. Until Gwen Stacey. Heroes don't die of cancer, then the Death of Capt Marvel. Heroes don't get really hurt. Then the Killing Joke had Batgirl crippled for over 20 years. And in every instance fan hated it. Does anyone remember the Justice League Unlimited episode Grudge Match season 2 ep. 9. I didn't I had to look it up. 😆 In it Roulette uses mind control on the heroines of the Justice League to have them fight. I'm being honest. The male villains would have taken advantage of that situation. This is an example of a line we don't want to cross. My point is that many of the Superhero tropes are based on 1930 mores. And for the most part many will hang on to these ideals. But some aren't realistic and unless you want your comic books to be only about fighting then sexual situations are going to appear.
@patrickm1092
7 жыл бұрын
Darren Chase you have some valid points
@sefiperi1500
7 жыл бұрын
I think that Harley's sex appeal is something that she must have in this movie after the huge succes of Margot Robbie's sexy Harley in Suicide Squad. However, I do think that buliding this werid relationship between Harley and Nightwing is very wrong. They should've done a one-sided flirt between Harley and Batman (no need to explain who's the one flirting) and maybe (hopefully) a romantic realtionship between Harley and Ivy.
@srank9231
7 жыл бұрын
I don't blame Bruce timm because it's his art, so he can do what he want on the other hand I blame the people that pick them. I feel like the gave him staff of yes men, and no one to challenge him. When I was watching the video it felt like they were just trying them Bank off of Bruce Tim's name, and let him run wild. Batman the Animated Series was great because it had limitation. Now since they're gaving him more free range and yes men are stroking his ego. They're getting what they asked for when they hired him.
@blackmanwithcomputer
7 жыл бұрын
At least her relationship with Deadshot was her trying to make herself an ally she thought she could potentially manipulate in the future.
@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954
7 жыл бұрын
Okay... this is getting really, really weird. The oversharing of the inside of Timm's head is the second most disturbing thing about this after what appears to be an attempt at a 'comedy' rape, two words that should never be in the same sentence.
@handler8838
7 жыл бұрын
Nothing is beyond comedy. 'comedy' rape are two words should always be in the same sentence when it comes to rape.
@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954
7 жыл бұрын
In a world where real rape didn't exist you might have a point, but unfortunately we don't live in such a world. As it stands, using rape in the context of comedy is beyond inappropriate, and shows a monstrously callous disregard for the trauma of rape survivors everywhere. And some things are emphatically beyond comedy. The idea of comedy rape falls into the same category as the idea of comedy genocide - if you find it funny, the fault lies in you, not in the rest of society who find it horrifying. A mentality of 'grow a thicker skin' or 'it's just a joke' betrays a worrying lack of empathy.
@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954
7 жыл бұрын
I don't determine anything (it is not as though I have power enough to deny anyone their freedom of expression, or the inclination to do so even if I did), but I am entitled to my perspective as you are to yours. Freedom of expression is not the same thing as freedom from criticism. And words are not without meaning or significance. Words can cause distress, words can reopen trauma, and words can contribute to a value system that oppresses the vulnerable and discriminates against the marginalized. Words are as political as actions, and when you use them you bear the same responsibility for them as you would for any other political act. You can say whatever you want just as you can do whatever you want, but it is ludicrously naive to behave as if there are no consequences that flow from doing so, for yourself or for others. Take your... lets be generous and call it a 'joke', at the end of your last comment. How do you think that form of 'humour' makes a survivor of rape feel? A person who already knows all too well what it feels like to be treated as less than human, as an object with no value outside the perverted simulacrum of pleasure unethical people can take from the abuse of their bodies? A person who already has to deal every day with a society which simultaneously acts as if they are forever tainted by what was done to them against their will by others, and also treats them as if they are somehow over reacting to the fundamental violation of their bodily autonomy and should just 'get over it' because their suffering makes some other people uncomfortable? Or even, for those with a truly psychotic lack of empathy for others, merely bored? A person in that situation is very vulnerable to depression and a magnified sense of unfounded self-loathing, and every crass attempt at a rape 'joke' just serves to reinforce to them that society sees them as worthless. That even after the physical assault has come to an end, there are still people in the world (people like you, han dler) who derive pleasure from their pain; who see them as having no value as human beings and as only possessing any worth as a punchline. It is truly observed that rape is like an iceberg, and the physical attack itself is only the ten percent visible above the waterline, the rest is the hidden psychological and emotional trauma that haunts a survivor for years, decades, and often the rest of their lives. All those reminders of how cruel society is, and how little all too many people care about what was done to them, add up to compound their trauma, possibly resulting in mental illness or even suicide attempts. Where is the comedy, still less the high principle you imply through your indignation, in kicking a vulnerable person when they are down? Is that truly the kind of thing you want to stand for? Aren't you better than that?
@handler8838
7 жыл бұрын
tldr Im too tired right now. Ill repond to your first paragraph. You are entitled to your opinion but not to the enforcement of your opinion. Which is why all your little talk about dark comedy jokes being something monstrous is rather worrying. Im sorry I simply dont handle your brand of 1st world outrage very well, specially from a group of people (SJW nuSocialists types) who tend to support tyrants like Castro who do some real actual damage to actual people. What he did in life was monstrous. A joke in a cartoon isnt.
@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954
7 жыл бұрын
I never suggested that my opinion should be 'enforced' by any means whatsoever. Point to the phrase where I even hinted that any sanction of any kind should be applied to people who don't agree with me. I do find the attitude behind these types of jokes to be monstrous and lacking in basic empathy, but that doesn't mean I advocate for people who act that way to be subject to any kind of penalty. As I have already said, I don't have that kind of power, and even if I did I wouldn't use it that way. I have never supported Castro or any tyrant or either Left or Right wing persuasion, and neither have the majority of left wing progressives. To suggest that somehow anyone who is concerned with social justice backs authoritarian butchers is hardly arguing in good faith - it would be like me accusing Right wingers (and those on the the moderate Right to boot; social justice is hardly a specifically hard Left issue) of being closet neo-Nazis, something that I refuse to do. Please extend the same courtesy in return. Finally, what on Earth makes you think that rape and the culture that supports it is in any way an issue of 'First World outrage'? Rape is a huge social blight in literally every society on Earth, and mass rape is widely employed as a weapon of warfare in war zones right around the globe. This is a human problem that affects every culture that exists or has ever existed - it is one of the most universal social problems to bedevil humanity, and every ideology, social trend, or irresponsible joke that normalizes rape or blames the victim contributes to a global set of attitudes and values that enables and excuses further rapes. Even a throwaway joke in an animation does not exist in a cultural vacuum. It still contributes to the issue, if only a little, and all those little contributions add up over time until they start to influence public attitudes and ultimately policy. As I have already said, words and ideas are neither meaningless nor socially weightless - they can and do have an effect, and we are all responsible for the impact our words (and the attitudes and mindsets we thereby promote) have on the society we inhabit.
@DarkNaifu
7 жыл бұрын
Seems to me that Bruce Timm has always been doing Bruce Timm things. So if anything, it's you guys that are only now waking up and seeing the big bigger he was painting all along. Batman x Batgirl? The seeds were there in the animated series. I certainly saw them and wasn't at all shocked by what happened in The Killing Joke. Harley being Harley? The guy helped co-create the character, so how can you sit there and argue that he doesn't know what he's doing with her? Harley was never sweet or innocent. DC isn't misunderstanding her character. She's a villain. Just because the Joker abused her from time to time, that doesn't give her white wings. If anything, it pisses me off that she's running around in her series (doing Harley things) and Batman isn't hunting her down, trying to throw her back in Arkham.
@ironwoman2012
7 жыл бұрын
Happy Birthday Grace 🙂, you are one of my favorite people ❤️
@KB-zq9ny
7 жыл бұрын
They need to put the Joker in it. Make him the unexpected element that saves the day and has Batman shaking his head. Then, it would be great!
@Hatingmeisconforming
7 жыл бұрын
Uh...Grace..Suicide Squad did the same thing.
@BeyondTheTrailer
7 жыл бұрын
First I address the SS situation here in the video and second, Nightwing isn't in SS so don't know what you're referring to.
@Hatingmeisconforming
7 жыл бұрын
Beyond The Trailer fetishizing Harley Quinn.
@brendanrenfrow393
7 жыл бұрын
Beyond The Trailer did you do a justice league breakdown???
@BeyondTheTrailer
7 жыл бұрын
I'd say sexed up Harley Quinn, yes, but they haven't had her running around with members of the Bat Family. She innocently kissed Batman, but she even did that in the animated series.
@Hatingmeisconforming
7 жыл бұрын
Beyond The Trailer Beyond The Trailer The one that Bruce Tim was apart of?
@AzimovTube
7 жыл бұрын
"I wish that someone would break all of Bruce Timm's..." Thought Grace was going to say fingers.
@dannyeltraviezo8691
7 жыл бұрын
dc comics are meant to be more dirty and mature thats what sets it apart from marvel. yes harley is an anti heroine but also a sex symbol.
@crocblock2
7 жыл бұрын
I hated how Nightwing turned down Elongated Man. Ralph's such a nice guy...
@Hypnotico89
7 жыл бұрын
Bruce Timm has lost his damn mind! He ships Batman and Batgirl and now Nightwing and Harley? He is writing pure fan fiction. He should never touch Batman and DC comics ever again. It's becoming clear Paul Dini is the genius behind the DC cartoons. Paul Dini gets his characters.... loved his Gotham City Sirens comics. I have lost all respect for Bruce Timm. The Nightwing implied rape scene is just disgusting. Harley is a villain! Enough of this anti-hero nonsense. She was written that way and yes she can have some morality here and there but her past actions have made her irredeemable as a hero
@sebastiano.w6398
7 жыл бұрын
Harley is a lovable character that has vast potential. It's a shame society constantly views her through an objectfied lens. SHE DESERVES BETTER !
@geekedmedia
7 жыл бұрын
Harley was created to be sexy lets not play ourselves.. X) It's not surprising at all that Harley would try to seduce Nightwing. Bruce is taking our childhood and bringing into an adult world because most fans of the Animated Series are adults. You keep saying Bruce Timm is wrong, and this is wrong.. that is wrong.. Well not according to Bruce Timm. Quit trying to box these characters in and let them be what they want to be.
@jamminjotaro3793
7 жыл бұрын
@Grace As for HQ being accomplice in killing Robin, weeeeell we haven't seen the flashback sequence yet. Remember, that info was just in Amanda Waller's files. Harley could have just been there and actually tried to stop Joker, but was pinned as an accomplice because she was with him at the time. They might pull a McGuffin and and make Harley a good guy in a future movie.
@bl3187
7 жыл бұрын
Bruce Tim needs to get his act together
@aureliusp1330
7 жыл бұрын
Harley's voice is much better in the Arkham games.
@TheKeyser94
7 жыл бұрын
I wonder why people are acting so outraged about this. What they want? The Adam West Batman again? We have already that with Batman & Robin, so not thank you, comics books were always for teenagers and adults, hell, the original Batman killed freaking people. So stupidly funny seeing people acting morally righteous, like their heroes were incapable of acting like human beings, because after all THEY ARE FREAKING CHARACTERS, not objects to be idealise.
@Dave-di4in
7 жыл бұрын
Spot on review Grace! The perviness of the Killing Joke and Terra in Judas Contact really took me out of the movies. I love the part at the end of your review "we're all going to watch Batman and Harley Quinn, the question is are we going to hate ourselves for it"
@livkivi
7 жыл бұрын
I don't understand all the downvotes. It's completely fine being upset about seeing some of your favourite characters being butchered.
@walmartinc4944
7 жыл бұрын
she's not being butchered. this is what harley quinn actually is. sexy and flirty. it's only recently you feminists forced your way into controlling how harley acts. like the overprotective abusive partner you dont want her to experience sex. fuck out of here
@captaincalx667
7 жыл бұрын
I don't want her to have any sexual experiences with any of the Bat family when it clearly looks forced upon them! Rape culture will never be acceptable, and people need to stop thinking there's a such thing as "innocent rape". Doesn't exist. Rape is never innocent, and just plain wrong. Get yourself some help if you think men can't be raped, and that Bruce Timm is allowing Harley to be justified here.
@datbitchkeepingitreal6712
7 жыл бұрын
Ryuk who cares it's Harley the crazy sexy EX Doctor turn villain, Tim is not ruining anything I think he just trying to appeal to the older fans who grew up with these cartoons nothing wrong with that, only thing I hate is Harley voice but w.e still gonna support my Harley ♡
@datbitchkeepingitreal6712
7 жыл бұрын
Walmart Inc exactly people who didn't grew up with these animated series or played the arkham games or read the comics don't know anything, she even slept with ivy & you don't hear any sjw bitching bout that
@LightBrand
7 жыл бұрын
I thought the entire point of being a DC writer vs just a guy is that your fanfiction is canon? Isn't that how all the multiverse started?
@Brilchan
7 жыл бұрын
I feel like I should agree with you because you are making some very strong points but I just watched the preview and it just seems FUN. Maybe it's the nostalgia talking but I want to see that movie and I want Bruce Time to make more even if it will be raunchy and politically uncorrected.
@Historian_Errant
7 жыл бұрын
Nightwing isn't really a "player" per se. With Babs, Kori and Huntress, he cared very deeply for all three. He was in a relationship for years with Kori (they were nearly married, but DC wouldn't let it happen), for years with Babs (again, nearly married and DC wouldn't let it happen AGAIN). With Huntress it was more of a flirtationship, similar to Batman and Catwoman before she found out his identity.
@adrianlagustin
7 жыл бұрын
have you watched 13 Reasons Why yet Grace? I hope you review it!
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