Hello. Just wanted to drop in here to, first of all, thank you for making this video. A lot of non-facts and misinformation slipped through the cracks of my usual fact-checking process for my video on this subject, and I've been incredibly embarrassed over it. It didn't come close to matching my standards of quality, and that's why, ultimately, I've made the decision to take my video down permanently, and I'm working on a follow-up video to go over all of the errors that you, and many others have brought up since it went live. This subject deserved closer attention from my own eyes, and I apologize for ever having it released in the condition that it was in. Cheers, Joseph
@Benhutchie22386
2 жыл бұрын
I just got so much more respect for you. Thank you. Tbh I just excused it as “well you can’t get all the details right” but nice to see how seriously you take it
@alexcarter8082
2 жыл бұрын
I just got so much more respect for you. Thank you. Tbh I just excused it as “well you can’t get all the details right” but nice to see how seriously you take it
@Metalslimeusa
2 жыл бұрын
Nah y’all have to debate now
@whatare9731
2 жыл бұрын
I am 27 seconds after alex carter
@MegaKopfschmerzen
2 жыл бұрын
I can respect that. Although I wanted to watch that video just now, as a refernce from this one.
@ratedpz9461
Жыл бұрын
This is the only CA HSR video i've found that actually mentions how mountains are the reason the route goes through the central valley and is so curvy. It should be relatively obvious but I'm still glad there's at least one video that explains this feature. Great video in general too.
@Moskeeto
Жыл бұрын
There's also literally millions of people that live in the Central Valley. Most of the coast, however is not inhabited. Building along the coast would only serve LA and the Bay Area while ignoring the millions of people that live in the valley.
@PopoySD
Жыл бұрын
There was an article where the HSR authority management were being interviewed and they said the agreement to build hsr through the state was it had to connect SF to LA, but had to go through Central Valley cities to help expand these cities, and economic growth.
@klicclak
2 жыл бұрын
I only lived in the Bay Area for two years and I was so confused by RLL's BART reference. I assumed he meant we could take the BART to get to the HSR because the BART is something completely different than HSR. But if he truly meant that the BART infrastructure could be utilized to lower the cost, well then that's just ridiculously wrong. The BART is so different that it would probably cost MORE to replace and redo it. Plus with the multiple lines and routes, we're getting into cars sharing a bike path type of talk.
@1hall
2 жыл бұрын
nice bias ;3
@1hall
2 жыл бұрын
100% right also
@klicclak
2 жыл бұрын
@@1hall lol didn’t expect that from the comments on this video
@dng2000
2 жыл бұрын
I saw RLL's video too and I was like "what?" I mean, if RLL dared to mention CHSR could have considered the kind similar to New York's Metro-North New Haven line that switches between 3rd rail and overhead wires as necessary and use variable gauge rolling stock (i.e. Talgo), then maybe that makes more sense and of course, if that introduces another problem of whether BART management is willing to share their stations and tracks or not and whether they want to revamp their fare collection system or not for shared stations. And it's probably not comparable to how Metro-North shares their New Haven line and Hudson line tracks with Amtrak trains.
@conanobrennan53
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, there's some ten degree curves (like 500 ft radius, super tight) that every train on BART has to navigate. There's no logical way to retrofit those areas to speed up the trains without destroying West Oakland in the process. also really tight tunnel clearances.
@russellmancillas4464
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for putting the "other video" straight, as a N Californian we all know that BART runs on its own size rail, and since I live next to Caltrain track I have seen the progress on upgrade!
@josephinepura525
2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, nowadays BART can purchase better and cheaper trains, since India, which also has broad gauge, now manufactures modern trains.
@hedgehog3180
2 жыл бұрын
It feels like an almost universal thing that people always oppose all of the actually good infrastructure projects while never giving a second thought to the terrible ones like high way expansions. Even here in Denmark people were being idiots about the tram in Århus and were acting like the one year delay was some kind of terrible disaster, yet now that it's here it's been a massive success and always has plenty of riders.
@jeffbenton6183
2 жыл бұрын
People never notice modifications to an existing system (even if the existing system is terrible) but everyone loves to hate a big project. It's much more noticeable. Every single set-back is seen as a sign that the whole project is unworkable and the money should be "saved" by being sent to a less noticeable (but also less effective) project.
@OnboardG1
2 жыл бұрын
Same issue in Edinburgh, although to be fair the construction company made a bloody awful mess of it and it wasn't well managed. The end result is actually really good, but I wish we'd hired a better team to build it in the first place.
@badger7275
2 жыл бұрын
It’s the fact that this project has entirely gone massively over budget and they are asking for more. A private company would’ve built this within budget and in a timely manner. On top of being under the control of one of the state governments that is well known to be entirely corrupt and overly bureaucratic.
@ammster1234
2 жыл бұрын
To add to this, I think a huge point is because people are initially excited and looking forward to it being completed. So the delays are felt more and it starts seeming too good to be true. In my home city of Mumbai, India, they have massive metro and highway expansions that aim to really alleviate the terrible congestion they have on our roads and it can’t happen soon enough, but the time it takes to build out is really felt. (Especially with the disruption cause by the construction but that’s a second point)
@VitalVampyr
2 жыл бұрын
@@badger7275 The high speed rail project in Texas was being built by a private company, seems to be cancelled now due to financial insolvency. Brightline in Florida was built by a private company and their first line cost more than double their initial projections to build (plus it's the least safe length of rail in the country due to how cheaply made it is).
@deptusmechanikus7362
2 жыл бұрын
just wait till it's finished and the rail will be handed over to _"more efficient and economically literate"_ private owners who will bleed it dry and run it into the ground. then they'll say: "hurr-durr it failed cus trains am outdated technology gimme bailout and more 27-lane highways ples"
@alanthefisher
2 жыл бұрын
Don't worry, I'll be president by that time and all railroads will be nationalized obviously 😎
@Pensyfan19
2 жыл бұрын
Brightline and its Western counterpart would like to tell you different.
@noahf4070
2 жыл бұрын
@@Pensyfan19 tbf i don’t think Brightline was ever a public owned rail or planned to be
@edwardmiessner6502
2 жыл бұрын
Like Texas' I-10 on Houston's west side which was supposed to solve the traffic problem but only made it worse!
@LordKalerran
2 жыл бұрын
Are you describing the UK?
@Matt_JJz
Жыл бұрын
Public Transit might be expensive to introduce, but fully implemented will save so much money as turns out two pieces of metal next to each other is cheaper than a 10 lane highway (that needs to basically be remade from scratch every 20 years)
@AgathaWhispers
Жыл бұрын
$100B 10-lane Highway?
@ianhomerpura8937
Жыл бұрын
@@AgathaWhispers remember how ONE interchange cost around $2 billion? No thanks to Scott Walker?
@ten_tego_teges
2 жыл бұрын
That track at 9:55 is actually insane, I'm surprised they even designed it this was in the first place!
@KooShnoo
2 жыл бұрын
But it’s so pretty!
@davidty2006
2 жыл бұрын
South-west britain: First time?
@vincugames
2 жыл бұрын
@@KooShnoo But also dangerous as heck
@chaos386
2 жыл бұрын
The segment between LA and San Diego was opened in 1938, and in their defense, average sea levels were 20 cm lower back then...
@inksuckeye1
2 жыл бұрын
I took that route a couple months ago after not taking it for a decade. While I love view, it runs into way too many roadblocks and it way too slow. My suggestion would definitely be to run smaller trains that don’t go all the way to LA.
@ShadowCrashed81
2 жыл бұрын
"We can't just switch from cars to trains!!!" RLL is really something else. Also as a person from palmdale i am offended he thinks we don't deserve hsr
@usernameusername4037
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, 150k is nothing to scoff at especially when the urban area including Lancaster has 500k+...
@ronclark9724
2 жыл бұрын
HSR works well with few intermediate stops, best to run non stop from terminus to terminus... Regular intercity and commuter lines works best with numerous stops as the routes are shorter in length. The key for HSR is to run numerous trains, every hour or half hour, between two large metropolises with just a few stops as every stop reduces journey time significantly. While a commuter train may stop for a minute at a stop, HSR trains may stop for up to 5 minutes at a stop as long distance passengers tote more luggage which require manhandling the luggage or the train providing baggage cars with service. A huge difference!
@usernameusername4037
2 жыл бұрын
@@ronclark9724 I believe there will be nonstop service between at least LA and San Jose, iirc.
@-Teca-
2 жыл бұрын
Fr he can fսck off cause his vids are just wrong half the time
@ronclark9724
2 жыл бұрын
@@usernameusername4037 Nonsense. At least Fresno and Bakersfield will demand any HSR stops there, if not Palmdale and San Jose... Why bother to build HSR in the valley through urban Fresno and Bakersfield if you aren't going to stop there? The more stops, the longer the journey time LA to SF, the more HSR loses the competition with the airlines... Not everyone lives in downtown SF or LA, many live near the airports...
@BH-hz6nw
Жыл бұрын
The Palmdale route servers 1/2 million residents not only 150,000 stated in the RealLifeLore video. The track serving Palmdale would also serve Lancaster which is only 10 miles away in the Antelope Valley., Both cities have a population of over 170,000 EACH. Including other towns, the Antelope Valley urban area has a population of over 500,000.
@mind-of-neo
Жыл бұрын
What a great point you made about how our infrastructural developments in the US often go slower because we don't do it enough to keep a really solid working knowledge. I used to find places where construction is always going on to be annoying as a passerby, but nowadays i am happy and proud to see a city that is constantly building and expanding its infrastructure.
@NeenanJones
2 жыл бұрын
"store brand wendover" actually killed me
@mccallosone4903
2 жыл бұрын
the big problem with trains in america is there is no infrastructure at most destinations to serve pedestrians. no subways, and few taxis and buses to transport you around once you arrive at a destination. you may be able to rent a car, but if youre doing that, you may as well just drive your own car if its less than 400 miles. its not like europe or china, where cities are somewhat centralized and served by cheap effective public transit
@iwoodbustanut7380
Ай бұрын
the fact that RLL decided to put a track right through the mountains reminds me a whole lot of Sun Yat Sen's national rail project, where he too decided to ignore geography and proposed multiple tracks that ran straight through the Tibetan fuggin' Plateau (remember even in 2024, China still only had one main line running the Xining-Lhasa route within that area).
@ianhomerpura8937
Ай бұрын
To be fair, China never stopped building and extending that rail line. After building the section from Xining to Lhasa, they then proceeded to build the railway all the way to Shigatse, and now their goal is to build it all the way to Kathmandu in Nepal.
@Nikotren
Жыл бұрын
This whole misunderstanding reminded me of something. In my country (Greece), there is a subway system currently being built in the city of Thessaloniki, but it has been heavily delayed mostly due to the economic turmoil that hit us in the early 2010s. Because of the delays, there was a certain period when normies and news outlets couldn't help but refer to the Thessaloniki subway as the "anecdote of the city". Fortunately, Greece officialy exited that economic crisis in the summer of 2018. Since then, the project has made huge progress, but there was something a few months ago that made me cringe so hard. In February, a horrendous train crash happened between two intercity trains. Right after that, people began bashing rail transport (including rapid transit) so relentlessly that the company behind the project at Thessaloniki had to delay it by 3 months because it would be seen as dangerous by the general public. Shortly after that, I discovered this video, and the things you said in your video was EXACTLY what I would say if that happened in my country. I guess people in general are ignorant when it comes to public transport...
@ianhomerpura8937
Жыл бұрын
iirc the system in Thessaloniki is also delayed because it has the same problem as Rome - the entire city is one giant archaeological site.
@alfredlamowen
2 жыл бұрын
A high speed rail connection to a town of "only" 150,000 isn't bad. I live in Stafford, England and HS2 will get a station here and we have a population of less than half of that Edit: As it happens, HS2 trains will stop at Stafford Station, but there will be no new station, still cool though
@myra0224
2 жыл бұрын
The US thinks any city that's smaller than half a million is small for some reason. Yet here in Europe we serve some really small villages as well, but 150000 is big
@LMB222
Жыл бұрын
The town is going to be half a million in no time. Access to cheaper real estate via HSR will change many areas in California.
@felixbeutin8105
2 жыл бұрын
Rll's video is what happens when the econ boys meddle in engineering
@theveryaveragegamer9865
2 жыл бұрын
Have you even watched the re-upload?
@felixbeutin8105
2 жыл бұрын
@@theveryaveragegamer9865 not yet it's just i notice a pattern when someone is well versed in economics they tend to hyperfocus and when they venture into engineering topics they usually goof. It's not personal and we need people who understand economics they just wouldn't make good engineers
@IlRovina
Жыл бұрын
As an italian living in a place where everybody thinks that anything big and complex can't be made and ultimately will not have any benefits, but now have a functional and ever expanding (albeit slowly) high speed rail system I say: resist and have faith, californians! It will be awesome, it will be a paradigm change and with a bit of luck it will be a sistemic shock that will change part of the United States in the long run. Just one tip: don't listen to anything any guru from the Silicon Valley has to say about it.
@timmannchicken
2 жыл бұрын
Love this video, as Californian, who admittedly struggle with the cost of this project and length of time, I appreciate someone at least took the time to set some records straight.
@paulbytheriver4976
Жыл бұрын
One of the major differences we have in construction with other countries is the bidding process, which emphasizes low-bid procurement. Nowadays contactors will often bid at cost, and then search for contractual "extras" to make up their profit. Finding extras in a project has become an art form here. To your point, many projects aren't adequately funded in the first place.
@frownyfrog
2 жыл бұрын
Vox just made a video slamming the project! You need to set the record straight again
@yjjcoolcool
2 жыл бұрын
Came here for this too! Vox's video seems to highlight the issues and mentions very little about the true benefits of the project. I hope Alan Fisher can make a video on this too.
@Ubeogesh
2 жыл бұрын
They do seem to have a different perspective there. It didn't seem to me that they claimed that the project has failed
@Ash2theB
2 жыл бұрын
@@Ubeogesh They kind of did by using old information and indirectly calling it a failure aka Slight Shading.
@ExpDel
2 жыл бұрын
Eh I think this really undersells the point that Vox is making (local governments having too much influence on decision making). I think Alan kind of handwaves the cost difference by referencing topology making a more direct route theoretically cost more when the diversion actually does cost more in reality AND makes the route slower.
@ExpDel
2 жыл бұрын
@@Ash2theB You should rewatch the video. It's in favor of the project. It's critiquing the political dysfunction with building infrastructure in the US (local governments having too much political power, projects getting underfunded due to Republicans randomly pulling funding, random people / communities abusing environmental laws to halt the project using litigation). All of these things blow up the cost of major infrastructure projects and simultaneously reduce utility upon completion. I think Alan might be wrong about the diversion being a good thing Lol.
@patrisio3
Жыл бұрын
We have to break things down when comparing the Japanese Shinkansen. Back in the mid 1960s when the Shinkansen was completed between Tokyo and Osaka, $400 billion yen was equal to about $1.1 billion US dollars. That $1.1 billion can be inflation-adjusted to about $10.5 billion in 2023. So from a 2023 standpoint, it literally cost Japan $10.5 billion to build a 320 mile line in a country of 99 million in the 60s. Current estimates for the 520-mile Phase 1 California line is $90 billion. Just doing the math, California HSR is still currently 5 times more costly (and counting) than what Japan built, and with only 40% of Japan's population (from the 60s) to use and support it. I like rail and want to see HSR in California. But only at a reasonable cost. We can't build as if money doesn't matter and is infinite with no repercussions. Plus, California has a whole lot more issues than Japan (has ever had) that money needs to be applied to (without being taxed to death).
@AWSVids
2 жыл бұрын
I feel like this is a fundamental, yet counter-intuitive, lesson that humanity is still struggling to realize: Penny pinching usually ends up costing you more. If you cheap out and do the bare-minimum of what's required, trying to do it the cheapest way possible... you'll usually end up with an inferior quality result that will not last as long, even if the circumstances you decided under were to last forever (which we know they won't). In the case of something like a road, you can design it with 2 lanes, or you can make 4 lanes to future-proof it for future population growth and traffic increases. The penny-pinching mindset tells you, "Well, it'll be cheaper to only make 2 lanes for now, and then we'll widen it in the future when we need to." Seems logical, right? Seems like the right way to go. It'll save you money now, and then in the future, you can pay the extra amount you would have paid now to build the extra 2 lanes when we need them, which will be easier to do as a smaller widening project than doing it all now! Great! Except you've made a terrible mistake. Because in 10 years, when the population has in fact increased as you knew it would, and those extra 2 lanes are now needed, as you knew they would be... you now have to start up a whole new project to widen it, which includes all the start-up costs and logistics of a new project that you already had going 10 years ago anyway, when you decided to not use it for this exact thing that you now need, on a tighter timeline, with the immediate need for it now pressing on you. The traffic will now be even worse during construction, when it would have been much more manageable 10 years ago. And ah, 10 years ago... when things cost less. Inflation has now driven up costs for the very same things you could have done more cheaply 10 years ago. So let's say the 2-lane road project from 10 years ago ultimately cost $10 million, while the 4-lane project would have cost $15 million. You saved $5 million and got a "good enough" road built more quickly and cheaply than if you'd gone with 4-lanes. But now, 10 years later... the cost of widening the road has turned out to be... $10 million. You actually cost yourself $5 million in the long run. AND people have been struggling in the meantime as the 2-lane road gradually became more and more incapable of handling the traffic load. If you had just spent the extra money and time to future-proof it in the first place... you'd be sitting pretty for the next 20 years, able to get more other stuff done, rather than always wasting so much time, money and resources on fixing things from not-enough-years-ago that were penny-pinched into not being able to stand the test of time. And the waste this causes is a big part of why we end up not being able to "afford" anything, which leads to more penny-pinching, which worsens the vicious cycle of a disposable mindset, where we feel more comfortable with "Just do the bare minimum now, we'll do another one in the future when we need to." than "Do it properly now, and be good for as long as possible." Yes, the latter is more expensive up-front. Yes, it takes longer up-front. Yes, it may go against every intuitive "Save the money now, only spend it if and when we absolutely need to!" instinct in your body... but I assure you, it's the more logical way. Government spending itself, I believe, is something people's intuition is often wrong about. So many people seem to think about government spending as being the same as personal spending, where when you spend your money, it's gone and saving it would have helped you in the future. That is NOT how government spending works. Money doesn't disappear from our hands when the government spends it... it comes INTO our hands! Where do you think the money goes? It goes to the people working on the projects. Citizens. Taxpayers. It just comes back to us! It gets paid to the workers, who then spend it in the economy, where it eventually just ends up back in either the government or some rich corporation or individual's bank account. In other words, back in the same place it was when you wanted to penny-pinch to keep from spending it, for fear of "losing" it. Government spending is how we get value for our taxes. Anybody who supports austerity is basically saying to taxpayers that the government is not going to give you any value for your taxes. It's like a store taking your money, and then telling you, "Sorry, we're actually cutting back on giving out products to our customers. But we'll give you a .01% "tax break" on what you just paid us." and hands you back .01% of the money you just gave them, telling you that this how much austerity has saved you. "See, we're lowering your taxes, it's worth it!" ... but you still don't get the product you just paid for. Well... maybe, they'll give you the Chinese knock-off version, if they're feeling generous. But yep... it'll break in less than 10 years and you'll have to buy another one. Ain't forced obsolescence grand? Government spending, especially on infrastructure projects, stimulates the economy and is SO important to making the economy function in the first place. The bigger the project, the bigger the stimulative effects. Again, this is NOT comparable to personal finances. You don't necessarily benefit in any tangible way from someone else getting your money and spending it elsewhere, beyond getting the specific thing you paid for. But when we're talking about government spending in society... it's an entirely different concept. It's like giving your kids an allowance so they can pay you to parent them. The money doesn't go anywhere. It's just a cycle. In fact, the money itself would pretty much be pointless, if you were just willing to parent them for free... but then, that'd be communism, wouldn't it? Can't have that. Support government spending. Support large, comprehensive infrastructure projects. Support getting the value for your taxes... taxes which the penny-pinchers never lower as much as they lower spending. Support future-proofing. Support doing things properly now, so we can actually enjoy having things in the future, rather than always have to wait for the latest update to make it "good enough" to be able to enjoy it for a minimal sliver of time before it's obsolete again. Support doing more, not less.
@ChristopherORourke-s7g
8 ай бұрын
Building high speed rail and electrifying raillines is smart. When I’m in Southern California for visits, I ride the Paciifc Surfliners between San Diego, Los Angeles & Oxnard when I visit in Los Angeles and Oxnard & Ventura. It is a lot better to travel by train than it is to drive. The critic who don’t want High Speed Rail in not only California, but in the United States period love choked, clogged interstate highways which are parking lots in most high populated metro areas and yet complain about people not having jobs. Building high speed rail provides and creates jobs.
@Ernesto_Da_Faneda
Жыл бұрын
I often sigh too when I think of California (and not in a good way), but clearly Cali is paving the way for other states to follow here. I think the biggest hoop to go through will be the acquisition of tracks, most of which right now are owned by freight company. Once that road block is removed, HSR projects will start popping up everywhere in the US (and Canada). And that's not just because trains are cool, they save the planet, and millions of people use them in Europe and Asia. It'll be because HSR is by far the most convenient option to travel between City A to City B.
@TonyLasagna
Жыл бұрын
This was my first armchair vidya. Fuck is it good. I agree with Hayden Rogin - the sheer number of people who don’t having a basic understanding of public transportation (including transportation journalists, as you have enlightened me to) is mind boggling.
@adodgygeeza
Жыл бұрын
The Shinkansen comparison is also flawed and innumerate. With all the cost overruns the Tokiado line cost $13-26 billion in today's money. It has an annual ridership of ~170 million compared to CHSR median estimate of 35 million. So in terms of value it's not close at all.
@garywilson1688
Жыл бұрын
11:20 Comparing the cost, or anything else, of California HSR to Japan's Shinkansen is ignorance or just plain True Believer territory. The Shinkansen, yes, cost about twice what the estimate was. It was revolutionary in the early 1960's in that no where else in the world had High Speed Rail. It took innovation, hard work, and excellent engineering to not only build the track through extremely mountainous terrain but also to invent the High Speed Rail rolling stock. Due to the cost overrun, Shinji Shogo, President of the National Railway resigned and took the blame. Note: California HSR is now 'estimated' to cost 4X the original cost (not 2X like the Shinkansen) and is way, way behind schedule. Haven't heard of a single person taking blame and resigning. The Japanese learned from building the first line and rolling stock and became valuable in exporting their knowledge and equipment around the world. Europe took up HSR next. Now, Japan and Europe are more inclined to succeed in HSR due to their concentrated population centers and the public's present use of railways. (I lived in Japan as a child and rode the train often and was in the Army in Germany and also rode the train often) Then came the big dog. China. HSR was a proven technology by the time China dove head first into HSR in the early 2000's. First China imported foreign technology and engineering but learned from their import. China made contracts where the foreign business supplying the rolling stock had to first build half of the rolling stock in China, then all of the rolling stock in China, then China took over designing and building the rolling stock. Now they are an exporter of rolling stock that competes on quality and cost. Is California doing the same thing regarding rolling stock? No. They are going to buy the ingenuity and labor of another country's work. Is California learning from what it has constructed or learned anything from foreign construction companies? No. They are making mistake after mistake with no accountability. Let's face it. The California HSR project is a boondoggle that is enriching politicians, politically connected engineering firms, union labor and most important is enriching anyone who has a job doing cost estimating (talk about job security!). Alan, you are an apologist for California's HSR. You could care less what it costs. You could care less how incompetent the project is from top down. If you have any concept of engineering you are purposely trying to fool the public that everything is hunky dory. I suspect you are just ignorant like the average voter who voted for the original project instead of actually devious. This project will never be built. And if it is, it won't be built in the lifetime of many (including me) who have to pay for it. And it won't serve most who have to pay for it, only a small elite and true believers as a Disneyland ride. Finally, the tremendous amount of greenhouse gassed being dumped into the atmosphere by the millions of tons due to the construction of this HSR (the making of cement contributes 15% of the worlds greenhouse gasses) has a high chance of NEVER being offset by this HSR project if they continue building it until they run out of funds and the public wises up and doesn't vote for one more dime for this boondoggle. But how do I really feel?
@Connor_Herman
2 жыл бұрын
One of the worst RLL videos I’ve ever watched. Normally I already find him grating but decided to watch that video because it was about HSR. It’s clear he did almost no research on it at all. From his misunderstanding of BART gauge width, Merced mispronunciation, misrepresenting the actual driving route from SF to LA, misunderstanding station placement, etc. I never dislike videos on YT anymore because it seems pointless but I dropped one on his video. Nice video, thanks for the rebuttal and setting the record straight point by point.
@disneymore7941
2 жыл бұрын
ALL his vids are bad, he keeps spewing misinformation in every single one of them...he gives Bongbong Marcos a run for his money
@kenxiong6830
Жыл бұрын
This ain’t Japan. All they did was waste money and ask for more money. This rail will never get done
@tomwallen7271
Жыл бұрын
I am a common SF-LA driver and I would be thrilled to bits to be able to take a high speed rail and get there same day.
@davidturk6170
Жыл бұрын
At what cost?
@HighHolyOne
Жыл бұрын
Alan, specifically on the California High-Speed rail project, and on every single project like this, we would tremendously benefit from hearing from all sides, and at all times, in order to involve course corrections. An attorney friend was employed at the construction/design level, and had a whole list of easily resolved problems, BUT FOR incompetent management (i.e. former Caltran employees). He, like everyone else, had signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement preventing him from bringing his concerns to the light of day. Gee, I wonder how much this enforced ignorance is costing the project!! I wonder how much other projects could learn from the experience of earlier projects! Enforced ignorance helps NO one.
@filthyredpunk
2 жыл бұрын
It seems like RLL's argument and that of those like him is that "California shouldn't have high-speed rail because it costs too much money and it plans to serve areas that aren't already served well." The same "too radical, too risky" argument you generally see in countless campaign adverts.
@mywifebeatheroin
2 жыл бұрын
Really tremendous video. There's so many people in this Explainer KZitem space that there's more than a few people pumping out videos that amount to reading a Wikipedia page. Thanks a lot for doing this
@liamwinning860
2 жыл бұрын
The BART point was actually hilarious, like saying why doesn’t crossrail in london just run on existing underground lines 🙄
@MikeWillSee
2 жыл бұрын
Even worse than saying crossrail should run on the tube, as that's a commuter line rather than a high speed line. This comparison is like saying HS2 should run on the tube!
@Bureaucromancer
2 жыл бұрын
@@MikeWillSee even worse than that given that but for the hundred and fiftyish years separating them there are huge parallels between crossrsail and the northern half of the circle line. Crossrail VERY similar in conceptio, purpose and even central routing to the original Metropolitan line.
@SamAronow
2 жыл бұрын
@@MikeWillSee If you want to get literal, it's saying that HS2 should run on Crossrail.
@zaydansari4408
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah like forget about the fact that a HS service will not be able to work on a double track local metro that is clogged up with frequently stopping trains. The rolling stock isn’t even compatible.
@zaydansari4408
2 жыл бұрын
A road based parable is, why should we build a road between these two place when you can get there using local residential streets, county dirt-roads, and rural easements and right of access lanes?
@Thatdude_Nik
Жыл бұрын
"The cost has ballooned to 100 billion due to cost increases" "10 people died in the Bronx last night due to a fire that killed 10 people in the Bronx last night during a fire"
@trulio_
Жыл бұрын
every 60 seconds a minute passes 😮
@earleroy
Жыл бұрын
@@trulio_ in africa 😔
@orppranator5230
Жыл бұрын
@@earleroy Only in Africa!
@Bolt451
Жыл бұрын
Wtf
@nomadben
Жыл бұрын
That is from the show Louie. Great line
@haydenhayden
2 жыл бұрын
It’s stuff like this that makes me realize how many people have a fundamental misunderstanding of how public transportation works.
@Humulator
2 жыл бұрын
yeah, ands that why i cant bike to work because they think that biking and walking and taking the bus/train is for poor people. i wish i could live someplace like the netherlands but i dont have the money to move.
@custardstuff5178
2 жыл бұрын
A lot of that is intentional misinformation. The car money goes deep.
@empathyisonlyhuman7816
2 жыл бұрын
I think you hit on a very good point here concerning public misunderstanding. But it extends well and far beyond public transit. It is essentially the backbone of every kind of propaganda system in existence.
@misanthropyunhinged
2 жыл бұрын
@@custardstuff5178 petro and auto industry has all the power in the u.s & canada
@Sho-td8wg
2 жыл бұрын
A huge part of it centers around the running gov like a business concept. By far, the big gripes center around the potential operating costs. I don't know if it can operate cost comparatively with airlines once you factor in the extra travel time. The idea that fairs will sustain it goes against the experiences of most pubic transit.
@defaultmesh
2 жыл бұрын
typical non-foamers always think that a "track upgrade" just means grabbing a magic wand from the TpF2 UI menu and in one touch it upgrades the tracks to 350 km/h without change in alignment, grade crossings, tunnels, etc.
@At0m1c420
2 жыл бұрын
funny thing is they'd know thats not possible if the actually PLAYED Tpf2 and tried that.
@derekhalcon8287
2 жыл бұрын
obviously track upgrade means hitting the track with the tf2 engineer wrench to the next level
@trashrabbit69
2 жыл бұрын
Derek Halcon Unfortunately CHSRI forgot to equip the Jag and it made everyone mad it took them so long 😔 smh bad rollout strats
@assonance9057
2 жыл бұрын
It’s so silly man
@Chrischi3TutorialLPs
2 жыл бұрын
Well, that IS how it works in Victoria 2, so why would real life be any different?
@AlexaDonne
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah anyone who lives in California knew every single thing you were going to say haha. If you live here, you get it. I will 100% take a high speed train from LA to SF Bay Area. Having to fly is annoying and I don't want to do that drive. I LOVE taking the Surfliner to San Diego!
@ellonico
2 жыл бұрын
i laughed out loud when he said that. id do anything to avoid the 5
@gaguy1967
2 жыл бұрын
There will never be a HSR from LA to SF. BTW where will you park at the LA station?
@jefe.amo32
2 жыл бұрын
Flying and driving between LA and SF sucks and is so wasteful on carbon fuel. Can’t wait for the CHSR. It will show the reds of America why California is a leading economy.
@OopsAllFrench
2 жыл бұрын
@@gaguy1967 for a good portion of LA there's LRT that goes directly to Grand Central. Or you can park at any of their stations that have massive parking lots and go from there.
@thesoundsmith
2 жыл бұрын
Only if there is a local that stops in Salinas. San Jose is as bad as SF, and driving 101 is fun - at least it was 10 years ago, it's been awhile.
@KIndustries1000
Жыл бұрын
"If there's one group of people that know way more than you do, it's train people." As a train people, this cracked me up
@qwerty112311
Жыл бұрын
If there is one group that will ignore all the pitfalls of a system to promote the system, rail people. BUT MUH AMERICAN HIGH SPRED RAIL RAH RAH RAH EUROPE CHINA JAPAN. No doubt rail works in some places in America, but there are some clowns who think it is perfect for any and all applications.
@PinkFZeppelin
Жыл бұрын
@@qwerty112311 Agreed, but it's usually just people with a specific narrative acting like train people I also like the fact that the USA already has more rail line than any other country in the world. We played a huge part in developing the systems. It's a lot of hubris to think during the creation of the largest rail networks ever they didn't apply it anywhere that it provides benefits.
@TohaBgood2
Жыл бұрын
@@qwerty112311 Auto transposition only works in some places and is actually fully subsidized everywhere in the country. Why are we subsidizing boondoggle highways that earn zero money ever vs trains that actually make money in some regions? Aren’t our tax dollars better spent on the thing that requires fewer subsidies to build and run?
@takablepigon9686
Жыл бұрын
Oh God. We found the Hivemind.
@PinkFZeppelin
Жыл бұрын
@@TohaBgood2 These train systems don't make money. Most of them are in massive debt.
@Paul_Lucas
2 жыл бұрын
"Your ability to put stock videos over a script does not mean I have to take you seriously." One of the driest burns I've seen on this site oof! Great video as usual.
@JoeLikesTrains
2 жыл бұрын
I agree
@Token_Nerd
2 жыл бұрын
That means a lot coming from the king of sass.
@skorpion101382
2 жыл бұрын
Coming from a Brit, that is high praise!
@Charlie-jp6mx
2 жыл бұрын
Deserved tho, I stopped watching Reallifelore years ago bc of to much bs
@robertsteiner4696
2 жыл бұрын
Its drier than most of the water sources in CA.
@shubdotclub
2 жыл бұрын
I’m always disappointed when people want to bypass the central valley’s cities. That region of California is growing and most auto dependent section of the state as well as home to another 5 million Californians. Clearly there’s necessity to build in “nowhere” when nowhere starts becoming somewhere.
@notthemama9986
2 жыл бұрын
That’s my home turf! 559 born and raised and will fight tooth and nail to bring HSR home.
@liamlee4817
2 жыл бұрын
They are literally almost colinear with the Bay Area and LA and it’s just a fact that they are a huge part of the population and economy. There’s seriously no reason to make them use busses to go to an i-5 corridor. That people suggest that is insane to me. It really is also elitist
@Peaks209
2 жыл бұрын
There’s a reason ACE has been trying to get service expansions into Modesto and Ceres, just a matter of it coming to fruition.
@travcollier
2 жыл бұрын
The University of CA has a big campus, including medical school, in Merced. The Central Valley is really not "nowhere" and hasn't been for a while.
@pennyforyourthots
2 жыл бұрын
Not only that, but I imagine being connected by High-Speed rail would probably make them more desirable areas for people commuting to the major cities, and as a result would increase their size and hopefully reduce the cost of living in a place like LA
@brokeafengineerwannabe2071
2 жыл бұрын
Funny how Mustard's video on Shinkansen itself has already answered most of these "technical" problems, the Japanese's choice of digging new routes, abandoning old slower tracks with different gauges, over-budget problems, etc. High-speed rail is a different kind of transport and should not be compared to rails like commuter rails. And the economical benefits are simply too great to be ignored in the coming decades.
@Pensyfan19
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. I saw a video once that compared the French TGV to my local commuter railroad (the Long Island Railroad) and it made me lose hope in society.
@MichaelfromtheGraves
2 жыл бұрын
the Mustard Shinkansen video is Oscar worthy. I think I've seen it about 15 times
@brokeafengineerwannabe2071
2 жыл бұрын
@@stuffbenlikes I think it’s mostly due to it being the previous 3 decades of mistreatment and careless planning
@ogzombieblunt4626
2 жыл бұрын
Well the designation for HSR is 250km/hr so i wouldn't call it a different kind of transport. It requires different engineering techniques for sure.
@MaticTheProto
2 жыл бұрын
Mustard is amazing
@roterotevideo
Жыл бұрын
I am flabbergasted they said that diverting only 13 minutes to enfranchise a small city is a bad thing.
@ianhomerpura8937
Жыл бұрын
A city with a population of 120,000 is not small to be honest
@metrofilmer8894
Жыл бұрын
Ikr. And more than 1/2 a million people live in this region, the antelope valley, so there is actually a lot of people there
@MugroofAmeen
Жыл бұрын
He also ignored the fact that the line also runs on nearby city called Lancaster which has over a quarter million people.
@SirSayakaMikiThe3rd
9 ай бұрын
Going along the coast completely ignores the millions in the Central Valley. As someone originally from Fresno, I am very excited to see such a massive investment into our part of California.
@IONATVS
7 ай бұрын
@@SirSayakaMikiThe3rdYeah, people see LA, SF, and SD on the coast, and the 5 freeway running between them, and just presume the entire coast is densely populated, and the interior is empty. When any californian knows, apart from the aforementioned metro areas and their suburbs, our geography forces the opposite-untamed mountainous nature on the coast and a continuous patchwork of settlements along the interior.
@zizafell
2 жыл бұрын
Also regarding the Palmdale station: RealLifeLore dismisses Palmdale as only being a city with 150,000 people however nearby is the city of Lancaster with a similar population. So it makes a lot of sense to have a HSR station serving an area of over 300,000 people, and HSR would complement existing commuter rail service. That number is also probably expected to grow as cities like Palmdale, Lancaster, and Santa Clarita have grown in population over the past ten years while cities closer to the core of Los Angeles have declined in population due to how expensive housing has become.
@esjd812
2 жыл бұрын
The AV is around 500k in total I think, so yeah he’s definitely just being ignorant for the sake of it
@RoscoeWasHere
2 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Palmdale and it has grown a lot in the 18 years I lived there. The Antelope Valley is a very large urban area for being in the middle of the desert, and is home to some of the most important military spots in the state.
@pitabread79
2 жыл бұрын
Yep, and good public transit is not just for the people who live there now, but for the people who will live there in the future BECAUSE of that transit.
@KuroshiKun
2 жыл бұрын
it's also going to eventually also connect with brightline west to Vegas
@gamerike777
2 жыл бұрын
There’s surprisingly a lot of industry jobs out there in the Palmdale area where I’m sure living in LA and commuting to Palmdale via HSR would be quite beneficial.
@chaos386
2 жыл бұрын
The "skip Palmdale and go through the Tehachapi Pass" idea is even more bone-headed once you realize it's actually a good idea! Such a good idea, in fact, that the freight railroads already built a line there over a hundred years ago, and very rarely let passenger trains through it these days, since it's already at capacity with just the freight traffic... Also, I have to laugh at RLL saying Palmdale was "only" 150,000 people (metro area of half a million). Hardly worth building transit infrastructure for! /s
@purplegill10
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for bringing that up.
@Connor_Herman
2 жыл бұрын
Not to mention being a potential jumping off point for future HSR to Las Vegas
@mendodsoregonbackroads6632
2 жыл бұрын
These stops at the smaller towns will end up being transportation hubs for each area. Palmdale for instance, probably has a bus line, if not some kind of light rail or street car, which will go to the HSR station and make it worth while. You could get on public transit in your Palmdale neighborhood and take it to the HSR station and actually go on a trip to another part of the state instead of driving. Same with all the other stops. Each town/region will build its transportation network to interface with CHSR and probably have a standardized payment system through your phone that takes care of the transfers.
@SamAronow
2 жыл бұрын
@@mendodsoregonbackroads6632 Palmdale is currently linked to Lancaster and Los Angeles via Metrolink, and this has already happened.
@SCHMALLZZZ
2 жыл бұрын
You simply can't build high speed rail through the mountains, they need generous gradients and capacious curves.
@k7y
Жыл бұрын
you know this video gonna slap when RealLifeLore is in the comments apologising and admitting the error
@nolantherailfan5048
Жыл бұрын
It's gonna slap him in the nuts
@someotherdude
Жыл бұрын
....he got RealLifeLore on some FACTS. Unfortunately, California HSR is still a huge fail. It won't move very many people, there actually are several spots along the route that are terrible choices, the costs have gone insane, and the (absurdly optimistic) revenue projects won't even come close to keeping it running. Last but not least, the original backers of the project have backed out, admitting it's a fail. One thing that will pop up in the future to alter the equation is short hop electric aviation, fortunately.
@nerd2814
Жыл бұрын
@@someotherdude ehh I doubt it. There are many in the country right now who are itching for a new, more convenient and comfortable service without the hassle of security and what have you that airports have. Besides, I think Bakersfield-Fresno sector will actually be a big hit, considering that both cities are pretty big, over 500k each. Also, remember the Shinkansen - that went twice over budget and nobody talks about it. Even if the numbers are nowhere as big as the Shinkansen or TGV, once LA and SFO are connected, that's when the moolah will be rolling in.
@pandarosamusic5751
Жыл бұрын
@@nerd2814 I was gonna say, I'm sure the Fresno-Bakersfield will at least be moderately popular, I doubt anybody loves driving the traffic-snarled roads between the two cities, and honestly I think the convenience of the train here would make a splash. It's not like these are tiny towns, they're certainly cities in their own right.
@yuzu-tsuyu
Жыл бұрын
I've honestly only heard of this RealLifeLore guy in context of him being incredibly wrong about things--and his "NATO's biggest weakness is Scotland" from 4 weeks ago is still up despite there being multiple response video outlining how nonsensical and misinformed most of it is, and the comments being full of people saying they're fed up with how erroneous his videos are. Seems like he gives zero fucks about being wrong, with the views he gets he could hire a ton of researchers, but all he wants is clicks.
@TotoDG
2 жыл бұрын
The reason he got so many things wrong is because he didn't compare anything to a Toyota Corolla.
@davidty2006
2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm oh yeah..... he didn't mention how many toyota corolla's could of been taken off the roads.
@stickynorth
2 жыл бұрын
OR WALKING!
@TouringWolf42
2 жыл бұрын
How can anyone criticize the transportation system without taking in to account the glorious dimensions of the world acclaimed Toyota Corolla.
@JimSlim7031
2 жыл бұрын
this is a fair point!
@-Teca-
2 жыл бұрын
In other words he didnt make a joke of the topic
@TheSpecialJ11
2 жыл бұрын
An additional thing I have to say about the going to "nowhere" cities like Palmdale, is a lot of these places will experience serious growth once they're better connected to the job markets of the Bay Area and LA. Palmdale is already a bedroom community for LA due to housing prices...with a 3 hour drive. That time will literally be cut in half by HSR.
@meso772
2 жыл бұрын
As someone who lives here, I’m also seeing businesses and high density housing complexes get built out the rear end…there’s some serious growth happening here
@aramondehasashi3324
2 жыл бұрын
That is if they have water by the time the HSR is built. The megadrought is hitting the American west hard.
@bootmii98
2 жыл бұрын
The train should be over halfway to Diridon, 90 minutes out of LA, not still in LA county
@davidty2006
2 жыл бұрын
Palmdale is about the size of Middlesborough near me in the UK. And Middlesborough just got 125mph service direct to london. And yeah house prices being lower than LA or bay area is sure a benefit. Why live in expensive place when you can live in cheaper place and take transit in and out.
@bootmii98
2 жыл бұрын
@@Stevie-J Palmdale isn't halfway to San Jose, not even close.
@uzziya6392
2 жыл бұрын
Missed the part where RealLifeLore just forgets that express trains exist and thinks that CalHSR has to stop at every single station along the route every single time.
@macstrong1284
2 жыл бұрын
Jfc literally one level on ANY railway management or tycoon type game and you’d know that. I think RLL is okay but he really dropped the ball on this one
@RandoWisLuL
2 жыл бұрын
yup
@Racko.
2 жыл бұрын
As a train expert, I'd say he definitely messed up badly on that video, sure most of this takes were true but overall he simply doesn't seem to understand how trains and their economics actually work, I found out when he mentions places like Merced and Palmdale not having alot of ppl and thinking the Surfliner Coast rail can be used to HIGH SPEED RAIL, that's when I knew he doesnt know much about it
@neutrino78x
2 жыл бұрын
it doesn't matter, even if you assume no stops it's still slow as fuck. It's a 380 mile route and wheel on rail craps out at 200. The fastest speed they're talking about is merced to bakersfield average 130. I would put a link but youtube doesn't let you anymore. It's a Deutsche Bahn document.
@thisaccounthasbeensuspended
Ай бұрын
@@neutrino78x still way faster and way more convenient than cars while being cheaper than plane flights
@JosefDerKaiser
Жыл бұрын
Reminds me of a video someone made where he outright said "Why doesn't Brazil just become a superpower already." Well, you have impenetrable rainforest on one side of the mountains, and a thin strip of arable land on the other. The mountains. You can't, you just, agh it bothered me so bad.
@TheZweric
Жыл бұрын
and most importantly, most of their capital isn't their own, but comes from foreign investments, so the profits are leaving too.
@someotherdude
Жыл бұрын
Brazil was on it's way to becoming a developed nation and went off the rails after the 1990s, with social spending and corruption. I hate to say it, but the military junta that ruled in the 1980s had the country on the track to prosperity.
@nidhishshivashankar4885
Жыл бұрын
?? Natural resources have nothing to do with capital power
@HolyAvgr
Жыл бұрын
@@someotherdude absolutely mental take on Brazil's performance. Take your ultra-fascist bullshit somewhere else.
@floofzykitty5072
Жыл бұрын
@@nidhishshivashankar4885 did you just... say... Natural resources have nothing to do with capital power?????????????????????? Surely this is a troll? No one surely thinks that?
@MicahRousey
2 жыл бұрын
I was one of the consultants for this project in the early stages. My responsibilities was organizing the documentation around the project for the inevitable lawsuits and public disclosure. I hate the 'all the lawsuits' issue brought up by critics. As one of the PM's told me: "You can guarantee lawsuits on a project of this scale, it's just a part of doing business." And yeah, take it from a consultant.... consultants are the biggest factor to government projects costing so much.
@JasonBoyce
2 жыл бұрын
There’s ALWAYS lawsuits. For example, there’s lawsuits by people who own land that is either getting seized via eminent domain, or they’re trying to force the government to buy land they don’t want. There’s landowners who don’t want the tracks through their property and there’s landowners who want to offload land to the estate and force a nice high price.
@JeffLocke1
2 жыл бұрын
I can imagine the feeling of looking at those plans with the rail going through Kern County and knowing how much pushback you were going to get just on principle. Harvey Hall and the DA spent a lot of time and money strategizing on how to fight the project before any of the initial plans became public. Just absolutely hateful people there...
@patches152
2 жыл бұрын
Second Thought just did a video about consultants and government.
@ciello___8307
2 жыл бұрын
@@JeffLocke1 and this is before it gets to more populous areas too. The metro purple subway in la got so many malicious lawsuits by beverly hills and other rich communities that didn't want a subway running under them.
@encinobalboa
2 жыл бұрын
Then you are aware the HSR initiate was sold as a $30bn project. How the heck did cost estimate balloon to $70?
@wblynch
2 жыл бұрын
What a lot of critics don't know is, 30 years ago California already had an advanced proposal for high speed rail up the San Diego coast, close to the current line, and the lawsuits and NIMBY-ism were overwhelming to the point it was all shit canned. My father was one of the senior engineers on the original BART system and later served as Executive Engineer, overseeing construction of 3/4 of the system’s rail line. I worked as a lowly laborer, laying and affixing that same 52 miles of rail; both directions. I choked on my beer the moment I heard someone suggest combining the long distance line with BART. I know dozens of reasons why that wouldn't work. Although a shared transfer station would be a great idea.
@patmcbride9853
2 жыл бұрын
Just like the Sacramento freeway bypass from Hwy50 to I-80 that was ready to go until the idiots sold out to developers. More congestion, more accidents, more frustration. But the politicians and their friends were happy.
@Zraknul
2 жыл бұрын
At least 1 shared transfer station should actually be required. Get off one, onto the other. No extra walk, bus, etc.
@jsrodman
2 жыл бұрын
A *good* shared transfer between BART and high speed rail is tricky. Today, those two sysstems don't get anywhere near each other, except at burlingame which is a mostly-useless transfer point. ( Aside: Burlingame is low density. The BART path from Burlingame swings FAR to the west making its transit to SF downtown take much longer even at its higher operating speeds to reach the same point of SF downtown. This might be mitigated if the BART route served high density areas, but it mostly doesn't, save for Glen Park and the Mission district. it is generally faster to take the caltrain up into the city and RUN on foot the 6 city blocks to the BART, than it is to transfer at Burlingame. The real reason for this transfer point is so that caltrain riders can get to the San Francisco Airport, and vice versa, which is fine, but it doesn't really connect the systems for most transit purposes.) The most useful transfer point would be bringing the high speed rail, and catrain, all the way into downtown SF as was planned originally (don't know the currents status). The caltrain would be vastly more useful for commute purposes with this as well. Currently, most people who might want to commute into the city from the south need to add a bicycle to the trip to get to the dense office areas in a reasonable time. The second most useful transfer point would be in San Jose, when the bart extension down to San Jose is completed. It looks like this is .. sort of planned, with BART being extended to have a Diridon Station, though probably nearby rather than same-platform with caltrain & High Speed Rail. This would bring the entire east bay into a reasonable transportation link to the high speed rail, BART of course is a pretty disappointing system. It is far too expensive due to all the custom engineering to be very cost effective as a purely commuter system, and most of the outer stations are designed to only encourage higher car dependency and sprawl. And as a transit system, it doesn't go to enough town cores, or run often enough to convince people to skip driving for non-commuting trips. As a commuter system, the downtown station placement is ridiculous with some stations being about 2 blocks apart. As a transit system, the outer stations placements are ridiculous with outer stations being far to far apart to support intermodality. Part of the problem is a pretty hardwired design that will be almost impossible to ever scale to 3 or more rails, to support express and local service. All that said, connecting it with more systems in shared stations would improve its future potential.
@dogguy8603
2 жыл бұрын
The NIMBYs in this case have a point, they will be losing their homes, if you support HSR then burn your home for it
@electrictroy2010
2 жыл бұрын
China has built more miles of high‐speed rail than any other country and has gone more into debt doing it… $800 billion, and most of its lines aren’t covering their operating costs. As a result, China is shifting to building more roads. France’s state‐owned railroad has piled up debts of more than $50 billion and has been repeatedly bailed out by the government. SPAIN has built its high‐speed rail system with a public‐private partnership. Officially, the private partner has gone into debt by $20 billion. The state‐owned Japanese National Railways has a debt of $550 billion. Today Japan has the world’s highest Debt to GDP ratio of 270%
@arhanmenon1526
2 жыл бұрын
I would've started LA to SD at first, but now that we're already this deep in, just finish SF to LA and the rest of the network will build itself.
@evanserickson
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly b
@SaveMoneySavethePlanet
2 жыл бұрын
LA to SD already has decently reliably service via amtrak, but LA to SF basically doesn’t exist. So I think this is a decent enough way to start. Can’t wait to visit relatives via HSR!
@kaixiang5390
2 жыл бұрын
or LA to Vegas
@chaos386
2 жыл бұрын
I'm of the opinion they should have done the Bakersfield-Palmdale-LA section first, since it would allow the San Joaquins to continue into LA Union station without having to put you on a Thruway coach. Giving the SJ those hybrid locomotives that can run on diesel or pantographs would even let them lower emissions in the LA basin.
@viewer-of-content
2 жыл бұрын
Both LA to San Diego and Oakland to SF to Sacramento would work better to start with than the middle of nowhere.
@1AngryPanda
Жыл бұрын
Public projects always goes over budget, because the numbers who get called at the start are mostly the absolut minimum who only could be realised when nothing goes wrong. 15:00 when you take Italy as example, the highspeed railnetwork killed the own airline. Because inland flights where not necessary anymore for people.
@mitchyoung93
Жыл бұрын
Then they shouldn't be sold to the voters at low ball costs. This project passed by less than 6 percent of the vote...had voters know the true cost (and time, and route) they might have chosen differently.
@leonpaelinck
Жыл бұрын
@@mitchyoung93 nothing ever gets done by that logic
@randomprotag9329
Жыл бұрын
@@leonpaelinck a middle ball cost should be used with the high ball cost given so that voters actually know the realistic budget needed and the less likely but still possible budget additions that can be needed. if the cost is so high that the voters has to be lied to the project should not be done.
@fjp3305
Жыл бұрын
@@mitchyoung93 You have to think in the future
@beekerakadjsnaxx6133
Жыл бұрын
There's a difference between "over budget" and "It's now estimated to cost 15 times more than the original estimate". Show me where there's $129 BILLION for this project .. and that's as of TODAY ... 10 years from now, it'll be twice that .
@namenamename390
2 жыл бұрын
Side note on Caltrain: Yes, it is great that they electrified the route and bought modern trains to serve the line, but they had to get weird special trains with doors with two different heights because there are multiple platform heights along the route. Apparently the solution is to adapt the trains, not the platforms.
@gdrriley420
2 жыл бұрын
It’s because CAHSR was stupid, they picked door heights by taking an average around Europe for the time not seeing what manufacturers had planned. Now if they were to change it 610mm or 2ft would be a good choice. Lines up with existing bi levels (other than superliners family which are 21) , KISS and quite a few HSR trains.
@energeticstunts993
2 жыл бұрын
@@gdrriley420 they should take Asia as an example, not Europe. I'm still pissed by my last journey from Berlin to Praque. A train that is more than capable of going over 100 km/h went 70 km/h most of the time. Even the fastest German train, the ICE cannot use it's top speed for most of the lines it serves. China and Japan have mastered trains. Whilst German government thinks having no speed limit on Highways is a good thing, they think setting speed limits on trains that are capable of going insanely quick is a good idea as well.
@petitkruger2175
2 жыл бұрын
@@energeticstunts993 i dont think any deomcratic country should compare itself or learn from China's high speed railways, they are build to boost the economy and are going to create so much debt in the future. sure its very big and impressive, but its funding structure wont make sense in any western country and is impossible to re-create in any moraly-correct manor.
@86pp73
2 жыл бұрын
I believe Caltrain do plan to standardise their platform height in the future, but currently have to make do with a twin-level system. Then again, I could be wrong, or it could get bungled by some stupidity.
@xinlu2806
2 жыл бұрын
@@energeticstunts993 As far as i know the problem is less a speedlimit on trains but more the way the lines are built, especially in germany. Europe has a high population density and lots of mountainous regions which is why it can be difficult do built lines where trains can reach their potential speed. Also in germany a huge problem is that there arent many dedicated high speed lines whichs is why ICEs are often stuck behind slower trains.
@kaisarion6668
2 жыл бұрын
As a Californian, I’m still sad. Maybe California is shooting for something truly special but I just want my high speed train. I hate having to drive everywhere. This project has been in progress my entire life, so I’m still a little sad. Hopefully I’m still here when it’s finished.
@jt1559
2 жыл бұрын
@California Dreamer well, future generations are inheriting the massive public we're leaving behind, so at least they'll get something tangible.
@cbmech2563
2 жыл бұрын
@@jt1559 🤣🤣🤣🤣 not a chance
@azeria1
2 жыл бұрын
@California Dreamer maybe they should of invested in water and getting rid of all the eucalyptus trees
@MyChavo123
2 жыл бұрын
For what so homeless can be in it smoking crack like they do in the subways?
@kaisarion6668
2 жыл бұрын
@@azeria1 I see you are a victim of the demagoguery. Your brain is literally rotting.
@blackbirdgaming8147
2 жыл бұрын
The funny part about the Surfliner issue is they just closed the line *again* because the hillside wanted to be friends with the ocean
@tobingallawa3322
Жыл бұрын
Building on unstable ground, or downhill from unstable ground, never works.
@lucaspadilla4815
Жыл бұрын
They currently be dumping more rocks into the water to see if that works
@sandsalamand3763
Жыл бұрын
@@tobingallawa3322 To be fair, the water was probably a lot further away from the tracks when they built it in 1880
@sortascouseace
Жыл бұрын
Climate change go brrrrr
@tobingallawa3322
Жыл бұрын
@@lucaspadilla4815 They are going to try and fill up the ocean, perfect
@TheRuralUrbanist
2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for responding to Real Life Lore's video!!! Totally correct that the project is not perfect, but it's an important step for HSR in America. One of the biggest issues with America right now is that we get the sticker shock and can't see long term benefits of a project like this. Also, lol BART 😂😂😘
@wakannnai1
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. California is the state to do it. $100 billion sounds scary but when you consider that California has a budget surplus of close to $100 billion right now, that price tag doesn't sound too bad.
@dunkey7739
2 жыл бұрын
@@wakannnai1 yeah better than funding wars.
@nikoclesceri2267
2 жыл бұрын
@@wakannnai1 That money would be better spend fixing the homeless crisis in their god forsaken state and cleaning the shit of their streets that on a HST that'll probably be a decade late and cost three times as much as promised if other infrastructure projects in Cali are used as a benchmark
@TheRuralUrbanist
2 жыл бұрын
@@wakannnai1 I realized this also when car shopping with my dad. I was young and needed a low price car (he offered it as a gift because I was in school and this was America after all), so we spent a long time looking at cars. For him, the ones that seemed in good condition were too expensive. We finally found an old convertible for under 6k and bought it. After 3 years, the maintenance required double the price of the car... High sticker price would've Ultimately saved money, my dad is the proof.
@LuckyDuckie115
2 жыл бұрын
Imagine California trying to break the airlines monopoly on travel...while other states do NOTHING about it. Also driving on the i5 is a bitch to/from socal/NorCal
@ish7957
2 жыл бұрын
It's such a boring stretch. I hate it
@JoshuaPlays99
2 жыл бұрын
The i5 isnt too terrible going san diego to LA and back, you're right though, I definitely wouldnt wanna drive much further than that if I had the option of high speed rail. Plus i could avoid having to drive that one stretch of i5 south thats nothing but potholes and bumps for over a mile.
@taoliu3949
2 жыл бұрын
It's already broken in the Northeast. Amtrak trains on the NEC dominates airlines on intercity travel.
@itoaster
2 жыл бұрын
I'm an automotive nut - I love to work on my own vehicles and I love to drive everywhere. And even so, I utterly hate the i5 and would take high speed rail any day over driving. In current gas prices alone, it's already considerably cheaper to take the slow Coast Starlight than it is to drive - my next trip up from LA to Sac in July, I'm going business class and it's still cheaper than driving a 4 cylinder Mazda.
@HamguyBacon
2 жыл бұрын
The problem is comifornia steals taxpayer money from the rest of the country and produces over priced crap.
@jayc222
2 жыл бұрын
“Anyone from the Bay Area knows what the problem is here…” Haha yup! One thing I think would help a lot of the KZitem fails I see is just talking to a local expert first. That alone would prevent so many erroneous claims.
@TARINunit9
2 жыл бұрын
5:28 "...rather than utilizing the already built BART system." This made me facepalm immediately. I take BART every single day, it is an urban subway system. _SUBWAY_ system. Up and down above and below ground. RealLifeLore tipped his hand, you would have to know nothing at all about the SF Bay Area to think you can start combining BART with any other trains at all
@timseguine2
2 жыл бұрын
Even assuming it had the right gauge and such to work, BART is still almost pathologically overloaded isn't it? Seems like adding more lines to the already existing corridors would worsen that significantly.
@TARINunit9
2 жыл бұрын
@Riorozen Where did THAT come from? I wasn't talking about the SF metropolitan area as a whole
@danagoyette7932
2 жыл бұрын
Man, with how badly BART screeches even at normal speeds (they had signs touting a reduction from 95 decibels to 75 decibels), I don't even want to imagine how bad it would be at higher speed!
@kindGSL
2 жыл бұрын
@@TARINunit9 Right wing media programming. You mentioned you live in the SF Bay Area and it triggered him due to the massive amount of anti San Francisco brainwashing that has been a regular part of right wing media programming.
@AlmightyDude420
2 жыл бұрын
@@danagoyette7932 New BART trains are much quieter and actually really nice. Old ones are still kinda fucked, but they have improved it.
@GingerWritings
2 жыл бұрын
Californian here: One major change the plastic bag and straw laws did do was reduce rubbish, at least throughout the Bay Area. They used to litter every drain and parking lot. They took effort to pick up, and thus often were left to accumulate when other things were cleaned. So it was partly to boost taxes, that is true, but I can say walking around without drifting bags everywhere has been welcome.
@vonnikon
2 жыл бұрын
It is definitely a noticable difference. Less litter everywhere.
@Moonless6491
2 жыл бұрын
Too bad the rest of the state is garbage.
@OALM
2 жыл бұрын
We ban plastic bags but we let the homeless shit all over the sidewalks… awesome
@thisisntsergio1352
2 жыл бұрын
Californian here. My sister didn't understand the law until I told her why it was put in place: in 2015, a turtle with a straw in its nose needed humans with pliers to take it out. While they tried removing it, the turtle's nose bled PROFUSELY. People across the world felt the pain. Their distress made its way into a Californian regulation. Source: kzitem.info/news/bejne/xWiAmKWaiKSIZ2k
@Matkatamiba
2 жыл бұрын
I drove back into SF the other day and, like a Western movie, a plastic bag tumbled across the street.
@occamsrazor1285
2 жыл бұрын
5:25 Uh, what? Dude...my train was held at Daly City station this morning for someone "being on the track". Point is, BART runs through residential areas AND it took us like 10 years to even get the APPROVAL to extend it to SJ (and it's not even done yet!). Thank you Alan Fisher for pointing out how unsuitable BART lines would be for running HS rail on. One of those trains could come of the track in the up hill climb coming from Colma into Daly City, launch itself through the air and land in GGP
@peskypigeonx
2 жыл бұрын
That launch to GGP would probably be a very good amusement park ride though
@joergsonnenberger6836
Жыл бұрын
Fun fact, when the new high speed connection between Berlin and Munich was completed in 2017, the number of customers for that route doubled over the next year. It's a project that was quite comparable in nature to CHSR.
@kaekae4010
2 жыл бұрын
From Europe I can only tell you, to build that as soon as possible. The longer it takes, the more expensive it will become. The sooner you have more experience for the implementation of the following lines. The United States lost the opportunity of the high-speed train, and if today a country decides to buy material and management, it will go for European companies. Experience in that industry is everything. Germans, Spanish, Italians and French are already developing the next generation of trains.
@Pensyfan19
2 жыл бұрын
Sadly, the U.S. has spent more funding on airports and highways since the 1950s, thus leaving rail with little to nothing, causing politicians to give more funding to cars. Private companies like Brightline, however, bypass most of this political stall and receive significantly more funding from the private sector, thus causing them to be operated more efficiently much sooner.
@KerbalRocketry
2 жыл бұрын
the time thing can't be understated, a project has basically a fixed cost per year. if it takes longer it will cost more. spending more money up front gets shit done closer to budget than doing wind-down build-up cycles over the course of a decade
@dwc1964
2 жыл бұрын
this was the purpose of the "lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit" that got thrown at the project right at the beginning - opponents of the project deliberately sought to cost the project money and time getting started, in order to create/exacerbate the delays and cost overruns they could then point to as reasons to cancel the project altogether
@Chrischi3TutorialLPs
2 жыл бұрын
Well only problem for Germany is that the high speed trains aren't going anywhere anytime soon, because our rail system is about as close to a gridlock as a rail system can be. Essentially, after reunification, the government quasi-privatized Deutsche Bahn, but in a way that gives you all the inefficiencies of a state run business and all the stinginess of private companies. The main problem is that they have this thing going on where, if a track is in bad enough shape, the government will pay to have it repaired. Now, Deutsche Bahn, being nominally a private business (though majority owned by the government) doesn't want to pay for the repairs themselves. However, the government doesn't want to pay for these repairs either unless it's absolutely necessary. So what does Deutsche Bahn do? If you answered begrudgingly repair the system anyway to prevent decay, you are right. Nah, just kidding, they purposefully neglect the rail system until the government has no choice but to pay. This leads to the rail system actually shrinking, which brings all sorts of other issues. Mainly that there is now a lack of alternate routes to take. This brings an unpleasant result with it: If you have a train breaking down somewhere, most of the time, if the route is even remotely important, you'll probably have a second or even a third rail that other trains heading down this path can take that runs more or less parallel. However, if all of the alternate tracks are out of operation due to purposeful neglect, this means that any trains headed down the same path will either have to wait or go for a longer trip, thus causing additional delays. However, this can easily cascade. Say, for instance, that one of these delayed trains arrives 25 minutes late due to the mechanical failure of another train causing said train to block the intended path. This might then result in a situation where the platform it is meant to go to is by then occupied by another train, and there is no other platform available either. This means that, either way, one of them will have to wait, and depending on the circumstances, the train that is already delayed might be prioritized, as it is already delayed. However, both of these trains now leave that station later, and if it's a small station, chances are there's only one rail heading in, so only one train can depart at a time. This means that another train might now get delayed to allow for the departure of one of the other trains, which can cause that first train to itself cause more delays down the line.
@HaydenSchiff
2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, part of the reason the U.S. doesn't have much good rail service is that a lot of the country isn't suited to it. You need cities to be pretty close to each other for rail service to make sense, and most of the country isn't like that. We could definitely have better rail service in high-density areas like the northeast, California, Florida, and maybe Texas and North Carolina, but we just don't have the geography for a national high-speed rail system like European countries have.
@LFPAnimations
2 жыл бұрын
As someone who grew up in the bay area and used to live in LA, I have had a somewhat doomer-ish outlook on the high speed rail. Every news article or report seems to detail just how colossal the failure is on the project. You are legitimately the first person in a decade that has given me hope this rail will actually happen and it makes me happy. The vast majority of Californians want to see this thing happen. The drive from SF-LA sucks (I have done it many times). You waste an entire day traveling between two major hubs of industry. Considering these two metro areas are some of the richest in the nation (and the world) it is a complete no brainer to build this rail. Nowhere else in the US needs a high speed rail more than California. The current LA-SF rail line takes between 8-16 hours! Yeah, it is slower than driving. This rail would bring the US infrastructure into the 21st century and will also better integrate the state as a whole.
@kolkoreh
2 жыл бұрын
The flight from LA (any airport) to SF (any airport) isn't anything to write home about either.
@LFPAnimations
2 жыл бұрын
@@kolkoreh The time spent in the airport triples the total transit time. Is it fast? Yeah, but a train would be cheaper and way more environmentally friendly.
@ciello___8307
2 жыл бұрын
The four foot has some really good videos on the construction thats ongoing in the central valley right now- they actually have built quite a lot
@TohaBgood2
2 жыл бұрын
Don’t listen to the anti-CHSR propaganda. A lot of money is being spent by some dark money groups to ensure that we lose faith in this project and drop it. Sure, it’s had some issues and the opposition has been well funded enough to cause pretty spectacular delays and cost overruns via land acquisition shenanigans. But the project is honestly, doing fine. It’s delayed. It’s over budget. But the money is still all there and they are starting to build at a steady clip now that they’ve figured out how to defeat the anti-CHSR terrorists. It’ll be fine. A decade sooner would have been great. But this thing is actively getting built, despite all that was done to stop it.
@afrodynamic
2 жыл бұрын
Seconding the suggestion on the four foot’s channel. Also Streetsblog has very good coverage on the HSR project among other things (and they have local coverage for SF / LA and California).
@IamthNight
2 жыл бұрын
Living in Palmdale, it's a miracle to have progress like a high speed rail line. Many people here commute to the valley and downtown LA so it will impact the area tremendously.
@bellairefondren7389
2 жыл бұрын
Palmdale and Lancaster should get ready for significant upzoning.
@mxdanger
2 жыл бұрын
@@bellairefondren7389 And hopefully that upzoning is done properly where everything is walkable/bikeable and it doesn't become desolate asphalt parking lots next to apartments with 8 lane stroads splitting everything apart.
@josephinepura525
2 жыл бұрын
@@bellairefondren7389 might as well plan for a new dense mixed-use urban center surrounding the new railway stations. That is how many Asian countries plan their new HSR lines, and almost all have been highly successful.
@geraldbennett7035
2 жыл бұрын
no it wont. Still need a way to get to home and work at each end of the line. Just wait until the junkie bums hop the gates and ride for free and ruin this sham.
@josephinepura525
2 жыл бұрын
@@geraldbennett7035 ah, the classic last mile problem. How about having motorcycle taxis? Still public transport, but without the throng of people. Seems to be okay, works in a lot of countries.
@nathanchildress5596
4 ай бұрын
However annoying it is that American construction is so expensive and wasteful, the bottom line is that this train will connect 40 million people in a place with the worlds 6th largest economy. It should work out pretty well in the long run.
@mrxman581
4 ай бұрын
Exactly. The construction of the route is over engineered on purpose because it's meant to last 100 years in a state known for earthquakes. That costs money and time to build correctly.
@tann_man
2 ай бұрын
There are no free lunches. All actions come at a cost. Is this cost worth it? Maybe? So far it's billions of citizen's labor that was forcefully confiscated down the drain.
@SimplyRailway
2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video man, you’re right on many points. I can’t wait to ride it. Thumbs up 👍
@lamegaming9835
2 жыл бұрын
i love your videos, simply railway! im excited too!
@Cobalt985
2 жыл бұрын
God I fucking love trains
@liamhodgson
2 жыл бұрын
“Tunneling is expensive” very true, in Pittsburgh it cost a billion just to run the trolley under one of the rivers. No high speed for us probably 😞
@pWarlop
2 жыл бұрын
That's what bridges are for, granted it's also why separated freight and passenger rail lines are for, the CSX and Norfolk Sothern line ownership and refusal to upgrade is a big part of the problem
@LoveStallion
2 жыл бұрын
But you DO have a better light rail system than many cities of Pittsburgh's size, and it's all the more impressive that you handle it with extreme terrain variations and water everywhere. Pittsburgh is a fantastic city.
@tianwang3768
2 жыл бұрын
@@LoveStallion the light rail only serves downtown and southern side Coverage wise I don’t think it stands out even by American standards. Also Pittsburgh’s rapidly aging/ failing infrastructure is in dire need of upgrade, one could only hope to not fall in a sinkhole or a bridge collapse, surrounding towns issued boil water notice etc. This place has a lot to overcome
@dwc1964
2 жыл бұрын
@@tianwang3768 sounds like "a fixer-upper with good bones"
2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, the most expensive part of tunnelling is the stations. The tunnels are not cheap, but for high-speed rail you get significantly lower cost per kilometer/mile than for urban transportation
@joeyvelez3708
2 жыл бұрын
As someone from the Bay Area, I want to thank you for setting the record straight on this one. I did watch the other guy’s video and the second he started talking about the “existing BART” rails, I closed my laptop and went to get a beer…like SERIOUSLY?!? Anyway, thanks for giving our state some credit and hope this project serves as an inspiration once it’s finally completed.
@vistaxp2600
2 жыл бұрын
About the San Diego segment: The HSR segment to SD goes through San Bernardino which makes sense as San Bernardino to Los Angeles is the most popular Metrolink line. This route passes through Escondido, a large suburb of San Diego, which is only served by light rail to Oceanside and BRT to Downtown. HSR could cut commuting times (and by extension rush hour traffic) by a lot. Plus, the Inland Empire would have a good chance to densify as well as link Ontario airport.
@no2pencilman
2 жыл бұрын
I really want California’s high speed rail to succeed. It is something that makes a lot of sense, and seeing the setbacks has been frustrating
@R_.709
2 жыл бұрын
It will fail The operation would start in 2045 No one likes it becuase there are fast cars So no one uses CHSR in 2045- 2050 Total Revenue is -5 Trillion CHSR closed in 2050 becuase of debt
@TheJonesmonster55
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah until you see the price to the consumer and it will most like flop…
@vincenty747
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheJonesmonster55 Eh it's the same argument made when the Shinkansen was built. Like the video mentioned, now no one ever mentions how overbudget that project was at first.
@sandal_thong8631
2 жыл бұрын
I think we can no longer have big projects succeed in the United States. Too many people have their hands out, like "The Big Dig" in Boston. Cost-overruns and delays are the thing if not downright fraud like the nuclear project in SC that was cancelled.
@thebabbler8867
2 жыл бұрын
They only people who don't want it is the Government: they want everyone dying in cars.
@kueller917
2 жыл бұрын
The contractor issue is the real core of every major California transit project that usually just gets blamed on "California bad". San Francisco's Central Subway delays are terrible because of the contractor. It's the same formula: get the contract on a low bid, then push a bunch of added expenses until the total cost is more than if the state just did it themselves. Also targeting drivers is totally the right way to go. It's a long 6 hour drive and that's not counting getting through LA during peak hours which can add a couple more hours alone. Flying is relatively cheap and only about an hour flight time so it would be a harder sell against that.
@altriish6683
2 жыл бұрын
Except you have to consider time spent getting to, and waiting in, the airport. That probably adds another couple of hours, so it might be competitive in terms of overall time spent.
@kueller917
2 жыл бұрын
@@altriish6683 Yeah but then the numbers get close to each other. Even the airport time still greatly outmatches driving.
@dwc1964
2 жыл бұрын
another big issue with both the Central Subway and the Van Ness BRT is that they ended up having to replace century-old sewer pipes at the same time - which in the end is a good thing, since they were way overdue for an update/upgrade anyway & might as well do everything at the same time if you're tearing up the roadbed anyway, but it might have gone over better if they'd factored that into their calculations in the first place.
@avirambhalla-levine1854
2 жыл бұрын
The other factor that might make the train more competitive against flights is that it is never necessary to go in the "wrong direction" towards the airport. For example, if you are traveling from Hollywood to Palo Alto, the cheapest flight is probably between LAX and SFO. That is at least a half-hour drive or hour bus trip from Hollywood to LAX and a half-hour drive or hour BART + Caltrans trip from SFO to Palo Alto. Compare to a high speed rail option where the "last mile" trips move you closer to the destination while they take you to the high speed rail line. For example, Hollywood to a Burbank high speed rail stop, or going from the high speed rail line straight to the local Caltrans system in the south bay. These factors can save time an money for many popular trips.
@AlexDahl
2 жыл бұрын
Anyone who has ever had to go to LAX for this flight (Or even bob hope if you can get it to Burbank) Understands two things: 1. Airport security is a pain in the ass. Trains are just show up and go. Maybe they'll have metal detectors like they do in spain or something, but I doubt it. 2. LA Union Station is right in the middle of downtown with excellent connections to local transit (Both subway lines terminate here, as well as the gold line). Most Metrolink services also call here, linking out to the surrounding suburbs---in particular the inland empire cities. It also has connections to many, many, bus routes that stop on the other side of it. Compare this to LAX which has no rail connection (They're building one to connect it to the green line and some buses) it is also rather far away from the city center being located in Culver City, which on a good day takes about 45 minutes to get downtown (Maybe less if you get a late flight and the uber driver floors it). Not to mention the completely horrific traffic just getting in and out of the airport itself. LA Union station starts to seem better! 3. Southwest, which is one of the most popular carriers on this route, has single-class seating with not the best legroom. Trains are a lot more comfortable! 4. Electric trains, when plugged into California's absolutely massive solar power network, will not generate any greenhouse gas emissions as they whisk thousands of people across the state between one of the most traveled routes by car and plane anywhere in the world. The train will quickly become profitable and an excellent competitor to air travel for all but the most urgent of occasions. 5. LA Traffic and I-5 traffic easily make the trip time between SF and LA about 8 hours, depending on where you need to go. If you're heading from SF to Anaheim, for example, for a convention, you are basically guaranteed to sit an extra two hours in traffic as you navigate through LA's perpetually snarled freeways.
@DuuudeMaaan
2 жыл бұрын
I live in Los Angeles and I can't wait for this train system to be built. Just the thought of being able to take a relaxing train from LA to San Francisco instead of driving gets me so excited.
@lioneljones6484
2 жыл бұрын
hope your alive in 80 or so years from now then because that's probably the timeline
@comlain2513
2 жыл бұрын
first mistake: you live in california
@whathell6t
2 жыл бұрын
@@comlain2513 What about that people who were born, lived, and died in California? The Californios.
@harouttorkomian5897
2 жыл бұрын
I also live in LA but i will not be making a statement like yours. Why? Because i have no idea how much it's going to cost, and quite frankly everyone in this comment section stating the brain dead bot like statement, "Yay! Cant wait to ride this thing." are lying and will not touch this thing with a 10 foot pole once they see the dollar amount appear on the kiosk.
@LordRambo
2 жыл бұрын
You may have to live to 150 years old if you're hoping to see it finished
@1TigerAce
2 жыл бұрын
I totally agree with the evaluation of the situation. As a Californian myself, like it or not, living in traffic is a nightmare here. I do see the potential in having finally something that can help us improve our travel options. Hope it works out. The first Shinkansen bullet train and its finances original story are glanced at a bit in a channel name Mustard - The Shinkansen Story. (If any are interested)
@jjbarajas5341
2 жыл бұрын
I would like to not have to worry about encountering storms over the Grapevine when visiting my parents for the holidays and stuff or be stuck if some remote part of the 101 gets destroyed by a landslide again 😔 The worst way to spend 5-9 hours imo. I'd 100% rather nap on a train. Maybe chat it up with (potentially cute) strangers. Driving that long sucks period.
@jeffbenton6183
2 жыл бұрын
I'm also a Californian, and - though I support High Speed Rail, I've long thought that California's project was unworkable. I had concluded that we should just give up on the project and wait for the federal gov't to just build a whole bunch of it everywhere (making better use of economies of scale, etc.). This video suggests that maybe I was wrong, and I should do more research and reevaluate my priors. (Also, I watch every Mustard video soon after it's released. "The Shinkansen Story" is a great one, good recommendation! I'd also recommend, as a follow up, people should watch the video Vox made about the guy who used biomimicry to make Shinkansen quieter)
@areoladan5580
2 жыл бұрын
I’m incredibly excited for the new track to reach down to SoCal. Even if you won’t be using the train, it will immensely improve your experience as a commuter on the 5 because of reduced traffic, reduced accidents, less frequent construction because of reduced wear and tear… it will make it better for everyone.
@LucidStew
2 жыл бұрын
Any portion of this project has max throughput of ~125,000 trips a day. Compare this to approximately 18.5 million daily trips by road vehicle in the state. That's 0.7%. This project has no real ability to impact road traffic. This is a distortion that has consistently been put forth by the CAHSR Authority. Same with the whole idea that it's going to open Fresno up as a commuter town or that it will have any real impact on the air quality of the Central Valley.
@jjbarajas5341
2 жыл бұрын
@@LucidStew 125,000 trips a day according to...?
@TheRealE.B.
4 ай бұрын
Cries in "trying to reverse engineer 20th-century infrastructure because all of our institutional knowledge is lost, and even relatively routine work is horrendously expensive".
@LMB222
2 ай бұрын
This video shows that you're now completely dependent on foreign technologies, mostly Japanese (greater NYC) and European (Cali) First, look at the sticker mentioning "I-ETCS". Don't know what the I stands for, but ETCS is European Train Control System. Another thing: the Caltrain (the tall white-red train) has buffers. What for? The US dumped the buffer-and-chain system some 150 years ago. The answer is probably that maintenance vehicles and/or other equipment will also have to be brought from Europe, where we're still stuck with this antique solution, so the trains need buffers as well. This suggests that for Cali, the deal was probably "get what Staedler is offering, or have around zero supplier tenders" - because their purchases aren't that big on the world market scale. So… either rebuild the know-how, or let our companies make big $.
@michaelmarkson3564
2 жыл бұрын
The "whole new rail line between San Diego and LA" take was so baffling, having paid attention to local news for so long and hearing not only how the coastal tracks are being threatened but cities along that line like Del Mar are burying their heads in the sand regarding coastal erosion.
@kevinmencer3782
2 жыл бұрын
Well, at least they won't be able to bury their heads in the sand once it's gone...
@abhinavgv5178
2 жыл бұрын
@@kevinmencer3782 💀💀💀☠️☠️
@ianhomerpura8937
2 жыл бұрын
Doesn't the US have any coastal protection project of sorts? Japan did it, and somehow it has reduced erosion along their seaside rail lines significantly, especially up north going to Aomori.
@michaelmarkson3564
2 жыл бұрын
@@ianhomerpura8937 This would entail a) admitting that coastal erosion is happening and b) drive real estate prices down in wealthy coastal areas, so we can't have that here, no sir.
@ianhomerpura8937
2 жыл бұрын
@@michaelmarkson3564 so that explains why beach nourishment projects are more common there.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc
2 жыл бұрын
7:24 I imagine he got the “12-minutes longer, $5 billion more” from the 2013 Clem Tiller ‘Tejon vs Tehachapi’ article, in which he examined the proposed route through Palmdale vs his own hypothetical route over Grapevine, which included a station on the western outskirts of Bakersfield instead of downtown, and crunched the numbers on both to come to the conclusion that his Tejon route was both faster and cheaper than CAHSR’s Palmdale route. Now whether he’s right or not is irrelevant now, since CAHSR is committed to going through Palmdale, but his research did seem to make some valid points, and early on I agreed with Tejon being the better route. But lately I have seen the merits of going to Palmdale, since that is a growing population center for LA and, maybe more importantly, it allows a connection with Las Vegas HSR. When Japan built the first Shinkansen, the existing Tokaido Main Line was either very near or at capacity, and so the Shinkansen was namely built not for sheer speed but to increase capacity on the Tokaido route between Tokyo and Osaka, and be able to move large amounts of people quickly and efficiently (at least to my knowledge). By connecting to the population centers outside of LA and SF, like the Antelope Valley, Central Valley and Silicon Valley, California’s high speed train will be able to do the same and move large amounts of people throughout the state quickly and efficiently, reducing the need for driving and capturing a bigger market than just the LA and SF crowd.
@ilikehardplay
2 жыл бұрын
There's a reason that the current railroads from Southern California to the Central Valley go over Tehachapi....and not Tejon. ‘Tejon vs Tehachapi’ is the sort of argument that only someone wholly ignorant of what railroad technology can and can't do in the real world would make. Steel wheels on steel rails are restricted to low gradients along their routes. Most railroads try to keep their routing at < 1% (a 1% grade is a rise of 1 foot for every 100 feet of travel). While you can cheat a little by trading speed for steep approaches to overpasses and the like up to 4-6% for distances less than .5 km, even the steepest sustained HSR routes in Europe and Japan have "ruling grades" (sustained average grades of over 2 km) of 1-2%. Interstate 5 going over Tejon Pass is 5.5 miles (almost 9 km) of 6% grade. That's steeper than the steepest ordinary speed railroad in current operation in the United States (Raton Pass, NM-CO, 3.3%). It's an impossible grade for railroads... Not to mention that the curves are way too tight for high speed operation. And the grade from the Central Valley up to the top of Tejon Pass is matched at the other end by a nearly equally impossible "Castaic" (or "5 mile grade") which averages 5.5% down off the ridge route for five miles into the Santa Clarita Valley. And don't get me started with the "just tunnel" crowd.....who are asking for a tunnel longer than the longest rail tunnel on earth (Switzerland's Gotthard Base Tunnel) through some of the worst geology and earthquake faults in the United States... That would easily double the cost of the whole system.
@ChrisJones-gx7fc
2 жыл бұрын
@@ilikehardplay I understand railroad gradients, but from what I’ve learned about the histories of California railroads, the reason the Southern Pacific went over Tehachapi was because they were building from SF to New Orleans, and had no intention of going to LA which at the time was a relatively small city. LA petitioned the SP to build to their city, so the SP turned south at Mojave through Soledad Canyon to LA, then turned east to continue out to Yuma and beyond. Later, the Santa Fe did seriously consider building a route over Tejon Pass to give itself a more direct route between LA and the Bay Area, and better compete with SP for intra-California traffic (since it had the longest California route going from LA out over Cajon Pass then turning back west to go over Tehachapi before getting to its Central Valley line), even going so far as to start grading a right of way, but felt they couldn’t compete with the state-funded highways being built at the time. So they instead used that money to invest in upgrading their Chicago-LA mainline (which proved to be the much better investment), and launched a new fast passenger service between Oakland and Bakersfield with a new bus connection to LA, which would eventually become the San Joaquins. The Santa Fe’s graded right of way over Tejon became part of the new (1933) Grapevine highway, I believe the stretch that goes up Piru Canyon to what’s now under Pyramid Lake. I believe all that was covered in a 2015 article in California Rail News, ‘Tejon, Tehachapi, and the Truth’, which ultimately makes the case for a Tejon HSR alignment based on Clem Tiller’s findings.
@SaveMoneySavethePlanet
2 жыл бұрын
As someone who lives in LA, it’s been a wild ride these last couple of months to read headlines like “we’re still building High speed rail!”, “Oh and we’ll probably connect Vegas to LA!”. Honestly, since I have relatives up in the SF area I’m so excited to be able to visit them with low emissions and easily via HSR. LET’S FREAKING BUILD IT ALREADY!!!!!!
@Pensyfan19
2 жыл бұрын
Enter Brightline West who's about to start construction on a dedicated high speed rail line from Vegas to LA.
@colormedubious4747
2 жыл бұрын
What's keeping you from taking one of the existing low-emission 17 daily trains NOW?
@ronclark9724
2 жыл бұрын
@@colormedubious4747 While they won't admit it, TIME... Simply put the airlines can fly that distance in an hour or so, while Amtrak takes nearly 10 hours LA to SF...
@ciello___8307
2 жыл бұрын
@@Pensyfan19 *vegas to victorville… that line isnt even directly going to la.
@Pensyfan19
2 жыл бұрын
@@ciello___8307 Not initially, but it'll connect with LA eventually. Probably sooner than CAHSR.
@novus201
2 жыл бұрын
"Build HSR on BART ROW"🤡
@nlpnt
2 жыл бұрын
If there's one thing we should've learned from the pandemic and ongoing post-pandemic shortages, it's that building redundancy into systems and avoiding single points of failure is how you get to resiliency.
@johanwittens7712
2 жыл бұрын
8:05 The last section of tunnel of the Swiss HSR north-south connection through the Alps was completed at the end of 2020. You can now travel under the Alps from France through Switzerland to Italy by HSR at speeds of up to 250km/h or 160mph...
@jjbarajas5341
2 жыл бұрын
That's crazy, I bet some impressive engineering went into that.
@turnipgaming9747
2 жыл бұрын
250 km/h is 155mph m8, thought I'd correct you slightly 😊
@AM-ud4xf
2 жыл бұрын
And you can also go with high speed trains between Spain and France, I've taken them myself. He made a mistake in that part, I also realized.
@jjbarajas5341
2 жыл бұрын
@@AM-ud4xf Turns out people will undertake expensive projects, mountains be damned. Cool.
@Racko.
2 жыл бұрын
@@jjbarajas5341 that tunnel is over 50 miles long, it's the longest rail tunnel in the world and it was done simply because the geography around France and Switzerland is basically just high range mountains/french alps
@dentistrider3874
2 жыл бұрын
Then I guess Vox is wrong too... not even going to watch the video, KZitem has to stop recommending these to me.
@bullydungeon9631
2 жыл бұрын
As a construction worker the pay now save later mindset that everyone ignores drives me off the wall
@electrictroy2010
2 жыл бұрын
China has built more miles of high‐speed rail than any other country and has gone more into debt doing it… $800 billion, and most of its lines aren’t covering their operating costs. As a result, China is shifting to building more roads. France’s state‐owned railroad has piled up debts of more than $50 billion and has been repeatedly bailed out by the government. SPAIN has built its high‐speed rail system with a public‐private partnership. Officially, the private partner has gone into debt by $20 billion. The state‐owned Japanese National Railways has a debt of $550 billion. Today Japan has the world’s highest Debt to GDP ratio of 270%
@davidherdman9798
2 жыл бұрын
@@electrictroy2010 Japan has the highest REPORTED debt to GDP ratio because the CCP conveniently ignores "local debt" in their reporting. Local governments in China have trillions in outstanding bonds which are being covered up, then add to that the GDP is actually much lower than what the CCP reports. Just like the Soviet Union used to do, China is reporting GDP of selling land to their citizens. And 'contributions' by their government-owned companies. So little of the output is actually usable by anyone. At least what Japan makes is useful.
@ShotgunRocket
2 жыл бұрын
@@electrictroy2010 So what's your point, other than pearl-clutching about debt being bad?
@childeryeeter4202
Жыл бұрын
@@electrictroy2010 and your point is? I really don’t see how this proves jack-shit
@reecedrystek2992
4 ай бұрын
@@ShotgunRocket Are you dumb? I know it doesn't make any economic sense and we will all be worse off but we should do it anyways.
@MrWphilips
2 жыл бұрын
Also please note- routing the high-speed rail through Palmdale, provides potential passengers who chose to avoid the congestion at LAX could realistically consider arriving and departing through the underutilized Palmdale airport. This would be beneficial for those whose destination is not the west side of Los Angeles! This also provides valuable revenue for the ‘small city of Palmdale’.
@MarioFanGamer659
Жыл бұрын
Though given that one of the CAHSR goals is the reduction of airplanes between LA and SF, that one likely isn't too much of an advantage in this situation.
@dougmoore5209
Жыл бұрын
That would be counterproductive, the goal is to cut air travel by use of HS Rail. It looks like the I-15 HSR line connecting Rancho Cucamonga to Las Vegas is going to happen. Including an underground rail link to Ontario International Airport.
@reappermen
Жыл бұрын
@@MarioFanGamer659 Not necessarily. One would imagine that the benefits of having another airport acessible would also apply to all the planes comefrom/going to places outside california. Plus it helps if somethong happens to close one of the airports, then you can redirect people and chuck them into high speed rail en masse.
@MarioFanGamer659
Жыл бұрын
@@reappermen I mean, you aren't wrong, though from what I know, many flights are short-haul to the Bay Area which CAHSR is planned to (partially) replace, leaving more capacity for other flights. That's why I don't see Palmdale's airport getting too much of a use here because it competes with the airports in the LA Metro.
@computerman790
2 жыл бұрын
My only gripe with it, really, is the stipulation that it has to be self-funding. I feel like all the new infrastructure is going to poorly maintained because they want this to be for-profit, not for our benefit
@robertmartin6800
2 жыл бұрын
You won't benefit from it if you're paying out the ass to maintain it.
@chris1789
2 жыл бұрын
You’re totally right. The point of infrastructure is to be a public service that improves peoples quality of life or the economy. This will do both. It can capture some of that increase with taxes and doesn’t need to make all its operating costs off fares. Nobody ever asks if a highway or a exurban development is profitable or self funding 🙄
@TheGheseExperience
2 жыл бұрын
Actually, I think that is exactly why it will be great. If there is an incentive to make money, there will be a greater attention to how the infrastructure functions. If it is poorly maintained, no one makes money, it’s in the rail network’s best interest to keep everything clean and well maintained.
@computerman790
2 жыл бұрын
@@TheGheseExperience That's also possible. I guess I'm just skeptical because the same incentives led PG&E to let their infrastructure age and fall apart in favor of huge executive compensation, knowing that the state would have to step in and fix everything for 1000x the price of maintaining it. I guess I don't trust them to take a long term view when they make more money by delaying / deferring small fixes and just leave before the consequences of neglect catch up to them
@TheGheseExperience
2 жыл бұрын
@@computerman790 I see your point, I would argue the failing point with PG&E was their monopoly. As a business, PG&E made a smart move knowing their position. They were correct in their assumption of California stepping in, and they made sure to exploit the free money at the expense of tax payers. California is at fault, they should have allowed room for multiple players in the game. If PG&E had a competitor, say, CalElectric (made up), do you think they would feel confident in letting their infrastructure go bad? HSR in Cali, fortunately, has a competitor, the car. If they can not find a way to out compete the car, including the convenience of autonomous driving, then they can just close up shop.
@levilife6184
2 жыл бұрын
This is why I am subscribed to you. You catch the mistakes of others and give me another look at the story
@janmelantu7490
2 жыл бұрын
It seems like RLL just looked at the “controversies” section on the Cali HSR Wikipedia page and wrote the script without doing any more research
@P0w2you
2 жыл бұрын
He could've just gone on "California High-Speed Rail Authority" - Channel on KZitem and found out more! 😂
@098saw
2 жыл бұрын
I'm just glad he didn't quote the crackpots at reasonTV and their videos
@chinafuture6484
2 жыл бұрын
RLL's lisp makes him sound like a snake villain in a Disney movie 🤣😂
@jultomten3739
Жыл бұрын
Ngl the USA should have just baught some X2's of off sweden back in 1994
@kms1.62
Жыл бұрын
I am sure there would be several quality systems approaching transcontinental coverage, and a robust a domestic manufacturing base to support hsr by now if we had just imported some high-speed train tech back then to get a jumpstart. It is frustrating.
@ClearTrackSpeed
2 жыл бұрын
This is exactly why I skipped real life lores video; He didn't even pretend to know what he was talking about.
@derek20la
2 жыл бұрын
Neither does this guy
@superj8502
2 жыл бұрын
@@derek20la proof please
@OnkelJajusBahn
2 жыл бұрын
As someone from Europe. I am really happy to see, that Californians also will some day get to enjoy riding high speed trains. It is worth it. Great video.
@izzieb
2 жыл бұрын
They'll be able to travel between cities faster than by road, from centre to centre and relax while doing it. Every time an American I know visits us in Europe, they seem blown away by the public transport in most places.
@OnkelJajusBahn
2 жыл бұрын
@@izzieb Yes. Here in Austria people love to complain about public transport. And yes, there is still a lot of room for improvement, and there are way too many carbrains, like everywhere. But it is still fairly easy to get around. At least in the more densly populated areas.
@derek20la
2 жыл бұрын
Bet it will never get finished. The money is going to run out and the average person's concerns will be worrying more about affording food to put on the table.
@dwc1964
2 жыл бұрын
as someone who's been envying Europe's rail network from afar most of my life, and after finally experiencing it on a whirlwind tour a decade ago only having that envy grow more intense - I can hardly wait!
@aramondehasashi3324
2 жыл бұрын
If it does get completed I don't see it happening for awhile, maybe in fifteen years.
@bakubread9308
2 жыл бұрын
I'm not a train person but I can relate. Real Life Lore in specific seems to have a problem with not doing enough research and making blatantly wrong statements as if they're facts, and proceeding to think that pinning a comment is going to magically cause people to suddenly not spread the misinformation he just told them all.
@connorcore7008
2 жыл бұрын
It's part of his strategy for more user engagement. Therefore more revenue. Disgusting.
@klobiforpresident2254
2 жыл бұрын
I wonder how several of his videos are still up, if I'm honest. I know, I know, nobody likes journalism school but dammit, if yer asleep during research class at least pay attention in ethics. Retracted articles (easier to do online) and corrections exist for a reason.
@jjproductions4768
2 жыл бұрын
Might as well report the video for misleading
@chv2948
2 жыл бұрын
His entire thing is that he finds a take and then goes to find facts to support it. There's almost never any nuance to be found.
@P0w2you
2 жыл бұрын
Yuppp specially since a lot of people don't look at comments at all.
@hermannbrandi2022
Жыл бұрын
I lived in the Bay Area for many years and I always chose BART or Caltrain to move around. My father was a civil engineer. I once blurted that roads should be more direct. He looked at me and said, "do you know how much money, time, and resources are needed to drill a tunnel into a mountain?" He explained to me just briefly all the effort and all the types of things to do including ecological and geological studies, calculations, planning, etc., is impressive. And that was brief. I was schooled and I'm grateful. I hope they can finish that project. Will help a lot.
@KazuhiraWolf
2 жыл бұрын
My issue with real life lore is that they do this shit with EVERYTHING. His videos seem educational, until you realize you're actually super familiar with the topic.
@PZK3759
2 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@Tofuey
2 жыл бұрын
The guy doesn't know anything, he just reads news articles and Wikipedia article.
@edq3
2 жыл бұрын
@@Tofuey it's insane how youtubers can get away with having a dogshit script by having "good editing"
@Guy_GuyGuy
2 жыл бұрын
The KZitem version of the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect. You read a newspaper or online articles until you get to an article about a topic you actually know a lot about and immediately recognize how the author has no actual grasp of the topic.
@Volcano4981
2 жыл бұрын
Especially lately I think RLL's videos are indeed, all poorly researched, sellout-ish to soulless sponsors, and he thinks sensationalist delivery of figures or statements with unnecessary dramatic pauses and hyperbolic counter-statements with a few bits of stock footage will somehow give a complete - or even halfway accurate - picture of what he is discussing. I am considering unfollowing him altogether. By no means would I like to demonise RLL but I have very little energy left to bother my mind with his behaviour of late. There are a couple of okay videos out there but I believe I have made my case. In contrast I've been watching and warming up to this channel for a while as a non-Yank and I love urbanism and infrastructure discussions in general, for an electronics engineer/materials physicist who should be nowhere near these as I am not an expert but I enjoy it regardless. Alan, kudos for calling him out on fundamentally misunderstanding rail networks. I haven't even bothered watching the California High Speed Rail one.
@RichDeShong
2 жыл бұрын
After watching RealLifeLore's take on CA High Speed Rail, I was thrilled to see your take. My knowledge of rail is mostly from building model railroads, but even I could see the fallacy of RLL's take on this subject. Keep up the good work! (BTW, you just picked up a new subscriber)
@mgbroncos
2 жыл бұрын
My man! Thank you for defending HSR in CA. Everyone knows that the project delays are problematic, but It's a massive leap forward for sustainable transport and competing with airlines. As you say, videos like RealLifeLore's are ultimately detrimental to the cause of sustainable transport solutions.
@frmcf
Жыл бұрын
FYI the European high-speed rail map at 7:50 has some mistakes, or is at least a decade out of date. The Barcelona-Figueres line was completed in 2013 and has now carried 13 million passengers.
@woodywoodverchecker
2 жыл бұрын
We Europeans shouldn't be all smug about things taking some time in America, because they also take a long time here. It takes decades to plan, finance & build a tunnel crossing the Alps. What we do have, is more public support. You generally build projects like this for future generations.
@jerubaal101
2 жыл бұрын
You also have very few freight trains, while the US still uses them a good deal.
@mildlydispleased3221
2 жыл бұрын
But at least stuff happens eventually.
@kevinsmeeton9504
2 жыл бұрын
@@jerubaal101 Without the amount of freight trains the US use just think of how many HGVs would be on the road. It's something the UK is trying to change by moving a lot more freight via the railways, to reduce carbon emissions.
@Racko.
2 жыл бұрын
That's the thing about ppl, they're quick to jump the gun saying "US is so behind and too slow to get things done", instead of seeing how progress with massive projects actually work, they have to go through Tax Federal and State procedures to plan things out and then you have to deal with expensive land and property rights which usually hinders the progress of these projects, Cali HSR is a good example, the same happened with the Interstate back then but it was done, other than the political squabbles that get in the way the US waited too long however better late than never Europe and Japan started doing HSR Projects back in the 1960s and 1990s, the earlier the better. What I find insane is how China had a total of Zero HSR in 2008 and 10 years later in 2018 they had over 20,000 miles of them 2/3 of the worlds Entire HSR line, and continue to make them, political win, state owned and what the Gov says on the dot literally must happen, low labor and more, it's fascinating
@Racko.
2 жыл бұрын
@@cactusjackNV Yeah that too, I didn't forget to mention it, I just worded it differently in my previous post, I said strict property rights, which comes from environmental laws especially when it comes to dealing with the farmers in those land areas. Acquisitions in California are usually done by giving money to the owners in exchange of building through their land. The Interstate as well went over budget just like HSR in Cali which isn't a big deal, as long as it gets done
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