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@Reoh0z
7 ай бұрын
The TIE Defender had one fundamental flaw, it wasn't big enough for Tarkin's need to compensate for small things.
@LouisWeaver-m4j
6 ай бұрын
This comment is 3PO gold. Amazing.
@TetsuShima
7 ай бұрын
Thrawn's spirit watching the galaxy being completely conquered by the Yuuzhan Vong: "Who is the paranoid blue guy now, eh? WHO THE F*CK IS THE PARANOID BLUE GUY NOW?!"
@zakkblack5024
7 ай бұрын
This is an amazing comment. Love it lol
@lenonoone4310
7 ай бұрын
It ashamed that thrawn didn't make it if he survived we might see him clap the Vong back to where they came from
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
Thrawn's overrated, literally a mary sue type of villain, who's smart just because he's smart.
@TetsuShima
7 ай бұрын
@@russianoverkill3715 Some people are just born with a high IQ. Considering that and the ultra-professional education Thrawn got, he's not a Mary Sue AT ALL
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
@@TetsuShima wears super unique white uniform with gold parts, is blue with red eyes, can somehow make a tactic by looking at a damn painting, year sure, not mary sue.
@Castor586
7 ай бұрын
Fun thought exercise: the Tarkin Doctrine was doomed to fail by design. Tarkin was trying to set the emperor up for failure so he could swoop in and take control, all while presenting himself up as an imperial loyalist, and a war hero, whom the citizens wouldn't question
@primarycolorman
6 ай бұрын
I always assumed the sith obtained some advantage from fear, chaos, or death of others. Setting up a stable government would run counter to their needs, and give a good reason the ancient sith despised the idea. Too much work relative to the value returned, and it wasn't sustainable everywhere all at once.
@highlander723
7 ай бұрын
"There's no way a tie defender could take out five TIE fighters in a straight up fight." I play the original TIE fighter Defender of the empire and believe me five TIE fighters was very easy.
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
Videogame mechanics aren't canon.
@Reoh0z
7 ай бұрын
You just need to give a mean look at a TIE fighter and it'll explode.
@biggles1852
7 ай бұрын
1 concussion missile
@highlander723
7 ай бұрын
@@russianoverkill3715 You seriously mean to Tell me that a TIE defender with shields and hyperdrive and six laser cannons can't take out five TIE fighters? Even using the ship mechanics that are seen in rebels? a imperial pilot that cannot destroy five TIE fighters using a tie defender shouldn't be flying a tie defender in the first place!
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
@@highlander723 I don't know about that, I'm just saying don't take game mechanics as serious piece of lore.
@Celestial_Reach
7 ай бұрын
the diffrence is that if tarkin tried to take over the defender project, thrawn would shrug and then move towards a new method of supporting the empires traditional fleet. he didnt let his ego and pride get into the way. he would see it as an honor, where krenich was a whiner and couldnt move on.
@TheMock5000
7 ай бұрын
I mean, I would be pretty pissed if a project I worked on for 20 years was taken over by someone else and I received no credit for it.
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
Oh my god, I'm so tired of this circlejerk about "Thrawn was right", like, he's hand picked by Emperor, just go and pitch him the idea, there was nothing stopping him.
@AlechiaTheWitch
7 ай бұрын
@@TheMock5000yea.
@NareshSinghOctagon
7 ай бұрын
I suppose that Tarkin could've just politely asked Thrawn for control and Thrawn would've happily accepted,since that would mean he could return back to all important Yuuzhan Vong issue. Which then makes me wonder what Thrawn would've thought up next.
@cameronhermann9400
7 ай бұрын
True
@SkyReaperOne
7 ай бұрын
Thing about the Tie Defender program, is that it would have not only yielded a premium fighter, it would have also allowed for new technologies and developments to be applied to much cheaper units. Improving the overall effectiveness of fighters in general. Prototypes of high end devices don't just help in getting the absolute best device possible, but it also helps in figuring out how to more effectively utilize available resources. Also, if you start mass producing Tie defenders, even if it is more expensive then an X-Wing on a direct comparison, I believe they would end up being pretty close in value, just because of the process in how they are built in a chain, versus X-Wings which would be less likely to be built off of a specialized assembly line.
@Memelord1117
7 ай бұрын
I don't think Thrawn intended for it to be put everywhere. The tie interceptor stood a chance against most rebel fighters. I'd reckon that the defender would've been used in conjunction with fleets to crack rebels cells, crippling the rebel fighter assets while the unshielded interceptors would've stayed behind and serve as point defence for the cruisers.
@SkyReaperOne
7 ай бұрын
@@Memelord1117 I agree, but the point I'm making is that the Tie Defender program would not only benefit the Tie Defender program. If the writer would have wanted Thrawn to actually sell this to the emperor, he would have probably added something to that effect in his sales pitch. XD
@carthienesdevilsadvocatenr2806
7 ай бұрын
Upgrade the standard TIE interceptor with Defender grade shields, and you have a TIE that is 'Good Enough' for local defence. Reassign the TIE Ln to training roles (and emergency use) and promote skilled /dependable Veterans to pilot the TIE Defender, with decorated Veterans being further promoted to TIE Defender Elites, as and when they become available; and you have the basis of a robust and affordable system for their intended peacekeeping role. A TIE Interceptor Squadron led by a single TIE Defender would be a nightmare for any opponent short of a cruiser, especially those that panic-focus on the defender enabling the interceptors to wreck havoc. Meanwhile, 'loose' squadrons of TIE Defenders (elite or not) could operate independently of standard fleets to turn the Rebels' hit-and-fade tactics against them. Now, if only Thrawn could promote a superior alternative to the Imperial-Class Star Destroyer...
@Memelord1117
7 ай бұрын
@@carthienesdevilsadvocatenr2806 Good point, but equipping EVERY interceptor is too much of a cost for Palpatine. After seeing the Star wars squadron trailer, it shows that a good interceptor pilot has pretty good chances with a damaged interceptor against an X-wing, in atmospheric operations at least. In deep space, Defender squadrons are the much safer choice of deployment.
@carthienesdevilsadvocatenr2806
7 ай бұрын
@@Memelord1117 My thought was that by mass-producing the shielding in mass quantities, you could significantly cut the cost per unit - which would in turn reduce the Defender's cost. I realise that it would increase the cost of the Interceptor, but I was thinking that the reduced cost of the Defender and increased survivability of the Interceptor (leading to fewer losses needing replacement) would likely compensate for that. Not to mention the greater value of experienced pilots vs rookies. Sadly (or not) Palpatine seems to have failed to account for those factors in his calculations. Though if he really wanted cheap fighters deployed en masse he should have gone for Vulture Droids and 19 grand each...
@David-l6c3w
7 ай бұрын
Remember that Thrawn's primary underlying motivation was the protection of the Chiss Ascendency from outside threats such as the Vong, and that his service to the Galactic Empire was the best means towards that end. That is, a strong Galactic Empire allied with the Chiss Ascendency would be needed to repel external galactic invasions. Hence, the TIE Defender was probably developed by Thrawn not to just fight the rebels and pirates, but rather to ultimately defend against a massive external invasion like the Vong. In the Timoth Zahn's book Thrawn: Treason, Thrawn lends his TIE Defenders to a single Chiss warship that makes devastating use of the TIE Defenders using their hyperdrives against two larger Grysk Hegemony warships. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiss Ascendency "inspected" the TIE Defenders while sitting in their warship hanger so that they could copy the design for themselves.
@violetlight1548
7 ай бұрын
Exactly. If the Chiss Clawcraft from Legends ever show up in canon, they'll probably be *directly* inspired by TIE Defenders.
@GAJake
7 ай бұрын
@@violetlight1548 Agreed. Imagine a claw craft single seat based on the defender, a 2 person heavy assault clawcraft, and a remote piloted tiny clawcraft interceptor using the tech thrawn learned from one of the grysk allies.
@TetsuShima
7 ай бұрын
*Fun fact:* In Legends, Thrawn was initially planned to return as a clone, being Timothy Zahn's intention to write a novel in which Thrawn's clone would embark on an adventure with Ben Skywalker. Unfortunately, Zahn abandoned this fascinating plan after Mara was cheaply killed in the "Legacy of the Force" books.
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
Blame Karen Traviss and her disregard for lore and other authors' works.
@Radiant.Radium
7 ай бұрын
Ehhh, I didn’t know this fact. :-[ Thrawn (especially in his Legends version) and Mara Jade are some of my all-time favorite characters, I’d have been really happy to get more Zahn’s books about them...
@orokusaki1243
7 ай бұрын
Big oof. Nothing says "I'm the asshole" like killing off another author's character in one's own story. Kill off your own characters, ass hat...
@zzzxxc1
7 ай бұрын
And he wanted to do a road trip in the unknown regions with Luke Mara and ben
@blackc1479
7 ай бұрын
That would have been a really cool dynamic. Imagine how different the vong war would have gone w him commanding the remnant, w paellion as his second.
@gloriousginger
7 ай бұрын
Fun idea that I have never heard: What if Palpatine, as he coordinated the Clone Wars, was also coordinating the Rebellion to maintain a darkness and feed the Dark Side. His goal was not victory or absolute control but absolute endless chaos and conflict. So, a Death Star was more destructive and fed the Dark Side instantly. The Tie Defenders would end the conflict in a direct victory. For a Sith, there is no win in victory. The win comes with desimation.
@therealslimweegee
7 ай бұрын
Honestly, I wish they did something like this with the New Republic in the Sequel Trilogy. They could of had it that Palpatine let Mon Mothma and the Rebel Alliance win in the end because he knew that her governing model was one that wasn’t effective in the long run, and in turn, the rising chaos from the criminal underworld and invading forces against the New Republic would allow the Imperial Remnants, the Chiss Ascendancy, or a Sith Cultist group, to come in and take back control from the New Republic, effectively setting it up such that even with his defeat, Palpatine still claims victory.
@gloriousginger
7 ай бұрын
@@therealslimweegee That would be awesome.
@cedriceric9730
2 ай бұрын
😂 true and master Jedi Know it, the difference is that they can afford to give in to the light whereas the sith ultimately always get screwed by the dark
@hydratanksamari
7 ай бұрын
Flights of Defenders w a support craft would replace many Imperial patrols, similar to how the New Republic used X-wings
@casbot71
7 ай бұрын
Having them mounted on Gonzanti's would be very effective. Four Defenders could tackle a lot of threats. Now if they could be carried in Raider Corvettes then that's a very deadly Hunter Killer team.
@GreenBlueWalkthrough
7 ай бұрын
Exactly don't replace the death star replace picket ships.
@impulseelectrobrine1259
5 ай бұрын
Maybe squadron leaders
@guibin
7 ай бұрын
I think if the TIE Defender were to be mass produced, a lot of those high-end features would be removed to save on production costs. The first thing I can see being taken off is the tractor beam. Instead of proton torpedoes AND concussion missiles, it would be proton torpedoes OR concussion missiles; maybe in a variable load-out. It can probably afford to lose 2 laser cannons too (probably the ones on the cockpit).
@isaackim7675
7 ай бұрын
Imagine a Star Destroyer would at least have three of these TIE Defenders leading a squad of regular TIEs?
@huntermad5668
7 ай бұрын
What about TIE-Interceptors replace all Fighters? Much cheaper and almost as effective
@anonymousli4204
7 ай бұрын
10:42 You can use the tractor beam to pull yourself to another target or keep yourself behind somebody and use it to stabilize yourself to them.
@zzzxxc1
7 ай бұрын
Corran Horn did that in Isard’s Revenge using the Defender’s tractor beam to tighten his turn around a space station in a training simulation
@nicholasfarrell5981
7 ай бұрын
It was also used to "stun" enemy fighters long enough to get a target lock with the missiles, the Defender was a monster.
@TheBenji800
7 ай бұрын
Seem to remember the defender having 2 ion cannons and 4 lasers in the old Tie Fighter games.
@chrislaurent1137
7 ай бұрын
The TIE Defender would be quite a threat to the rebellion if a certain GOVERNOR didn't blew up the entire fuel supply.
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
Oh my god, the scaling in Star Wars is so dissapointing, you're telling me those couple of small cisterns weren't easily replacable? Empire could've issues like 10 times more of that to Thrawn.
@chrislaurent1137
7 ай бұрын
@@russianoverkill3715 The problem is Thrawn’s TIE Defender project was on the line. He went to Coruscant to plead his case to Palpatine to fund his project instead of Krennic’s Death Star plan. Everything was in order until Governor Pryce decided to destroy the entire fuel supply to kill a few Jedi so not only was the TIE Defender project scrapped in favor of the Death Star project, but she contributed to the fall of the Empire.
@russianoverkill3715
7 ай бұрын
@@chrislaurent1137 bruh, those couple of cisterns was all he needed? With all Empire's might they could've given him 10 times of that.
@chrislaurent1137
7 ай бұрын
@@russianoverkill3715 Except they’re not going to give those to him after that fiasco; his project’s compromised. The Empire’s not going to fund something that’s proven to be a liability (In their perspective).
@marrqi7wini54
7 ай бұрын
@@russianoverkill3715 You know what, when you think about, I think I understand Pryce's reasons for destroying it. "If I can just kill these 5 rebels. Rebels who have caused the destruction of multiple star destroyers, ships, and fighters killed thousands of imperial lives, and cost us billions of imperial credits, I would have saved my system from these renegades. We would not have to deal with these guys again!" We know Kanan and Ezra were jedi and we all know what kind of issues jedi can cause if you seen this show, or the clone wars, or clone wars, or many forms of star wars media. Including the first movie. The issue is that Thrawn is a Chiss agent and he feared that the death star could be used to threaten his people. It was sort of personal for him. The fuel cell's destruction pretty much handed Krennic a win in a red bow wrapped present. 🎁 It was never just about the defender.
@orokusaki1243
7 ай бұрын
The TIE Defender was always a pleasure to fly in TIE Fighter and in X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter back in the 90's. Compared to a TIE l/n, it adds 4 lasers and 2 ions, as well as 2 launcher tubes, can equip a tractor beam, has shields, has hyperdrive, and is 25% faster. This thing isn't very different in size - the manufacturing and assembly should not be much more difficult as a modular platform. (Though even in those games, a basic TIE l/n could also be fitted with hardpoints to add a couple missiles or bombs - which reminds me of photos of fighter jets with their full loadouts/payloads on display on the tarmac) Upgrading even a portion of the starfighter fleet to TIE Defenders would have been a great strategy. But yeah, who's gonna be afraid of a little eyeball when there's a huge eyeball entering orbit? Papa Palps really seemed to have liked the chaos. Fighting for one's project against other projects does seem to promote a fierce and passionate response - the project being one's life's work will be the best that they can muster. The chaos did create a lot of competition and uncertainty, had them at each others throats, which ultimately meant that they weren't trying to challenge Palps.
@biggles1852
7 ай бұрын
I think it did 200 with power settings on normal and 400 rerouted to engines. At those speeds I remember never using shields
@tf330129
7 ай бұрын
A better use for the funds released from Project Stardust would be to replace all TIE's with TIE Interceptors. In fact they could use some of the Defenders technology to upgrade them with shields. With the Defender functioning similar to the role of the Interceptor. Makes the regular imperial starfighter more survivability, allowing them to last long enough for Defenders to deal with the threat.
@violetlight1548
7 ай бұрын
I saw someone online propose developing hyperdrive rings that regular TIES and Interceptors could hook up to (similar to old Jedi starfighters) to give them more range while the Defenders are being phased in. Sounds like a decent compromise, and you won't be wasting the old TIES. Have every Imperial fleet include a few Interdictors as well, and the Rebels would be screwed.
@muticere
6 ай бұрын
I definitely did enjoy flying a TIE Defender in the DOS game TIE Fighter. Always made me feel like a badass.
@simonthegun
7 ай бұрын
Came as fast as i could. Empire, Thwran this is the dream
@justicedunham4088
7 ай бұрын
The TIE Defender was great, but an empire that would adopt it is not the empire of Star Wars. All of the decisions would have been different and the galactic civil war would already be completely different if the rebels existed at all.
@RooneyHimself
7 ай бұрын
I thought the TIE Defender had 4 laser cannons, 2 ion cannons, and one each of a Proton Torp and Concussion Missile Launcher. Though, the launchers can be done away with, as they'd be too hard to realistically fit onto the craft.
@nobodyimportant72
7 ай бұрын
Cost per unit: B-2 Spirit, Zumwalt, F-22 and F-35; All vehicles that saw cost as a problem because order size went down so much. Might have to consider just which stats one should use for that as the Defender's stats have been all over the place. Sometimes it's just superior to most other fighters but in others it is just insanely superior.
@andersonic
7 ай бұрын
At 10:55 you included the TIE Defender Elite being stolen because the stormtroopers guarding it decided to run off chasing a pair of Loth-cats. As long as the Rebellion can find two Loth-cats per fighter, the Empire's entire TIE Defender fleet would be quickly lost.
@nicktechnubyte1184
7 ай бұрын
Tie defenders and star destroyers with death star lasers would have annihilated any rebellion if put into full production!
@chrislaurent1137
7 ай бұрын
The only thing that'll be annihilated is Emperor Palpatine's Credit Score
@nicktechnubyte1184
7 ай бұрын
@@chrislaurent1137 no, he already did that with the two death stars!
@leonardobroza6298
7 ай бұрын
The only thing those super weapons would annihilate would be any attempt at mainteining a cohesive lore.
@chrislaurent1137
7 ай бұрын
@@nicktechnubyte1184 True! That and one of them wasn’t fully paid off
@nicktechnubyte1184
7 ай бұрын
@@chrislaurent1137 also, he didn't listen to the legitimate arguments made by the architect of the death star's exhaust port! If he was told to account for space wizards, we'd probably still have a death star!
@InternetStudiesGuy
7 ай бұрын
Having flown the Tie Defender in the original Tie Fighter, if memory serves, it can take not just take on 5 Tie fighters, but 5 X-wings, or 5 star destroyers probably.
@GoranXII
7 ай бұрын
Never mind star destroyers, the place where the Tie Defender would _really_ have excelled IMO would be on ships that could only carry a squadron or two of fighters, rather than a half-dozen or so.
@andrewpaice7650
2 ай бұрын
don't forget the empire was worried about their people defecting which was another reason why hyper drives were not added to most combat craft. Also check out the stats in tie v xwing game and the stats on the tie defender. the weapon system was even more nasty. and why the skips ray blast boat were made to help combat the defender if the pilot defected. regardless of cost this was a fantastic fighter craft. the hyper drive could easy be replaced with what the xwing has. thrawn knew what he was doing. and given the real resources he would have many smaller star ships and had what ever fighter that had shields and a hyper drive as part of such a force. and still have a fleet for other vital tasks.
@HighLordBaron
7 ай бұрын
Another thought: A full adoption of the Defender could have lead to a shift in imperial dogma, focusing more on small, but powerful ships instead of massive Star Destroyers and cheap Tie Fighters. The Defender could have lead to more Tie Models following the same principle. Imagine a Tie Bomber based on the Defender....
@CloneScavengerVulpin8389
7 ай бұрын
The tie defender really embodies it's elite status.
@sonicgen20
7 ай бұрын
The empire doesn’t need to replace all their ties, just have a few tie defender squadrons on standby for those organized rebel cells that are too tough for the standard ties.
@sumukhvmrsat6347
7 ай бұрын
This is the most logical twist Thrawn : These are my New Tie defenders , My entire Star destroyer compliment is made of tie Defenders Rebels in Stolen modified Tie Defenders : Hello Blue Mother focæR-CENSOR!- I see you have skill issue
@-Protector-Union
7 ай бұрын
Question, what if instead of TIE Defenders, why not TIE Avengers?
@MrDibara
7 ай бұрын
Beautifully put. The TIE Defender would've turned the Imperial military into a competent and deadly force and I assume that's what everyone advocating for it want. But at the core of the problem, the Empire's biggest problem was always their management. Oppression, brutality, use of fear, exploitation, a cut-throat culture. Had the Empire actually created more civil development, stability and security, the people most likely would've grown used to living under an authoritarian. I mean, take a look at Naboo, the planet is run by the monarchy of a queen, yet the people are happy and prosperous. None of them want to change that. Yet Palpatine's sadism and joy for oppression helped cultivate this extremist culture where the ones up above *love* to step on the masses below. *Looking at you, Tarkin.*
@horationelson2440
4 ай бұрын
The biggest advantage the Tie Defender gives, is the ability for small, remote outposts and worlds, to be able to defend themselves against pirates and insurgents. We know that star destroyers can't be everywhere, and the most common ships given to a backwater planet is a Gozanti with four tie fighters. Replace that with three Tie Defenders, and you have a force that can take on just about any pirate ship, or insurgent ship (for the early GCW period). Not only that, but pursuit would be delayed with a Gozanti, as it would have to re-embark it's fighters before jumping to hyperspace, by that point, it's likely that your target has already made a second jump, and is gone. A small flight of defenders though? If you can estimate where the target jumped to, you can immediately persue, meaning that pirates and insurgents couldn't do what the Tie Fighter allowed them to do, lick their wounds. It would also be good for recon, and with missles and torpedos in the arsenal, it would also be able to take out rebel warships, the same as rebels could take out imperial warships. That would likely be far more effective at pacifying people than the death star, as there is only one death star, and one good sabotge team could take it out of action. But, there would likely be many defenders had it gone into full production, and it could show up anywhere. For the rebels, having an opponent that can truly match, or exceed them at the one advantage they had in fleet actions, their fighter corps, it would likely make people less than inclined to join. A deathstar? Well, that's far away, and there's no way they'd use it here. But a defender? Well, it could be on any carrier in the fleet, show up at any world, be stationed at any base.
@viperson9818
7 ай бұрын
A pair of tie fighter on patrol can easily be taken out but a sole tie defender can easily go on the offensive and survive during a routine patrol. Not to mention the empire have plenty of skilled pilots that can take advantage of the defender. With Thrawn elite defender for the top aces. The rebels wouldn’t even stand a chance. Especially when rebels initially had Star fighter advantage over the empire tie defender would just be game changing.
@GAJake
7 ай бұрын
Keep the venator star destroyer, acclamator, and republic starfighters until upkeep becomes more expensive than making new. Make the nebulon b and imperial light cruiser your support ships. Once the venator needs replaced make a new carrier and support cruiser focusing on automated crew requirements, shields, and point defense weaponry (Lasers, missile emplacements, ion canons, flak). Make Tie defender and remote piloted tie interceptors. For policing make a patrol ship based on the VCX-100. Create missile boats and torpedo corvettes. Include lancers for designated anti-fighters. additional Make Interdictors.
@dragonweyr44
7 ай бұрын
During WW2, the Russians had a saying about the T-34 that "Quantity had a quality all of its own". This extended into the Cold War era with cheap tanks and other equipment The American M1 Abrams is one of the highest quality tanks in the world, as is the American military doctrine. We've proven that better quality has a quality all on its own
@TebrynDaltar
7 ай бұрын
One big thing it would have done is not cause as huge an exodus of competent Imperial officers who saw the Death Star as horrible as it was. A lot would be lost without tactical and strategic expertise joining them.
@shaider1982
Ай бұрын
The Missile Boat probably would be better. I enjoyed flying that in the game "Tie Fighter"
@Idkidkidk716
7 ай бұрын
Imagine if they used tie defenders and Venator class star destroyers with a few isds like a carrier strike group in our own universe.
@edlerlights6486
7 ай бұрын
I remember in the Tie fighter game there were ion cannons on it.
@nerdwatch1017
7 ай бұрын
I wonder and hope to see a bunch of these tie defenders in thrawns movie
@lerneanlion
7 ай бұрын
In other words, the Galactic Civil War will lasted longer similar to the Eighty Years' War in our world. Wow! Imagine the Empire and the Rebels Alliance have to fight each other that long and the Empire ended up being forced to recognize the revolted planets as independent worlds because they cannot efforted more manpower and resources? That will be such an interesting scenario if you asked me.
@ohmai6626
7 ай бұрын
I feel like a Tie Defender could definitely handle five Tie Fighters at once. Especially in the hands of a pilot trained for it.
@Nephalem2002
3 ай бұрын
This is why the Sith Empire lasted longer than the Galactic Empire did. Yes they had super weapons but didn’t invest entirely in ONE project. There were multiple super weapons; Silencer, The Dominators, The Stealth Fleet that was gonna come from Illum, etc.
@OctagonalSquare
6 ай бұрын
It is weird that the two options were massive super weapon capable of planetary destruction, or a beefed up version of their existing fighter
@peterkennedy7219
7 ай бұрын
I loved the TIE Defender in TIE Fighter!!
@sonder2686
7 ай бұрын
Non-stop quality
@anonymousrex5207
7 ай бұрын
I think a better way to look at the cost issue isn't as much whether a Defender can take out 5 regular TIE fighters (I think it can btw), but I think it's more about during an engagement with enemy forces, what kind of losses are you looking at? If you only lose 1 Defender for every 5 or 6 regular TIE fighters, then the cost would seem to justify itself. Cheap and easy to manufacture ships are fine and all, but if you are losing them at a rate of 10 to 1 (or higher) vs another ship in your fleet, then switching to the other ship would justify the cost difference if you take fewer losses. Yes, there are other factors like upkeep, but with the Defender, the fact that the ship has a hyperdrive and does not need a carrier of some kind to be deployed, makes it much more flexible when it comes to costs. Whether it was a TIE Advanced or a Defender, once the rebels were able to deploy superior fighters with shields and hyperdrives, the Empire erred by not fielding similar craft that could keep up with them in every way in order to maintain fighter superiority.
@appo9357
7 ай бұрын
I’d love to see a What if… style movie/show where the Defender Program won out over the Stardust Program.
@GeneralHavek
7 ай бұрын
The law of escalation would have taken effect. The tie defender would have necessitated the rebels to make breakthroughs in tech which may have resulted in the E-wing being created earlier, or some other breakthrough that vastly increased the power of the X-wing.
@gjpokey
7 ай бұрын
I always wonder why Star Destroyers don't use launch tubes for fighters. (a la Battlestar Galactica) It feels like having a bunch of launch tubes and one hanger for landing would make much more sense...but we are talking about the Empire here.
@lolroflroflcakes
7 ай бұрын
I mean I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the 1v5 as a lost cause. It feels like the tie defender is supposed to represent some sort of generational leap and historically the generational gap between fighters has been near insurmountable. Sure this is Star Wars but it’s the concept that if you bring a new capability to the table that requires specialist skills and equipment to deal with you’re going to stomp the opposition into space dust.
@nobodyimportant72
7 ай бұрын
That five vs. one sounds so familiar doesn't it? Kind of reminds of what I've read about a single F-22 taking out five F-15s in wargames.
@jedironin380
7 ай бұрын
From what we saw in Rebels, I believe a well-trained pilot in a Tie Defender could easily beat 5 standard Tie Fighters, due to having shields, better power and maneuverability, and far more firepower. The unimaginable budget for the Death Star could have upgraded all of the Venators, produced several squadrons of Defenders, and many other support roles and equipment.
@viatorius
7 ай бұрын
And now imagine how much of a threat it would be to the Rebels if, in addition to the Defender, the Hunter, Avenger and Phantom were also mass-produced?
@AdamTehranchiYT
7 ай бұрын
Using this Swiss-Army-Tie as a system patrol craft, etc. Is a pretty good idea and does to show what the empire could have done with competent leadership. Although I would have switched out a few of the blasters with ion cannons. Imagine if the "disposable" Ties were droids or more Lancers were produced. Cheers👏🏻
@NareshSinghOctagon
7 ай бұрын
As per the original design,it had four laser canons and the two upper ones were ion canons. The chin mounts were purely munition launchers.
@sashabraus9422
7 ай бұрын
What would've saved the Empire is having Palaptine be anything but Emperor.
@shril171
7 ай бұрын
Generation Tech- 5:51 it costs 300000 "Dollars" Me- wait what
@shoresean1237
7 ай бұрын
Some alt-thoughts: If Mon Mothma had been killed or captured, it would certainly have been a short to near-term disaster for the Rebellion, possibly the end for that version of events. Yet, given her utter accomadationist go-along-to-get-along approach to the New Republic, maybe her absence in an eventual later New Republic would have made things better and allowed the NR to finish off the Imperial Remnants. If Leia had been the Mothma figure, for example, I can see a less Merrick Garland-like bending over backwards to those who weren't with them or were even against them. An excellent piece as always, but speculation like this can be a bit History Channel, which got to the point of almost asking 'What If Hitler had Gundam-like Mecha?' before they totally lost it. I think Thrawn had a lot of good plans, but Palps didn't really want good plans; he wanted territorial and departmental backbiting, a Sith-like war of proving among his lackeys mostly absent the Force. If he were really all that practical, he could have halved Stardust's budget but doubled their allowed time for completion, while the TIE Defenders took up the slack. A power with both a vetted Death Star and a thoroughly seeded group of TD's would have left the Rebels with few options, but I still feel they would have won. The Empire was built on a lie that increasingly, even figures like Obi-Wan Kenobi series' snitching alien truck driver would have found harder to swallow. He annoyed me at first, but I think his rhetoric, while sincere, was also meant to self-reassure and keep the lie for himself. You can fix corruption, but you can't fix corrupt, and the Empire was inherently corrupt and corrupting.
@serhulk0737
6 ай бұрын
What if the death star didnt have a literal golf hole that destroys it would be a great question
@Mike1064ab
7 ай бұрын
I think if Thrawn had remained in the galaxy during the war he would have pushed more for the tie defender. Obviously the Death Star would still be built it was too far along to be abandoned but I’m sure there would have been a full complement of tie defenders on board and Thrawn would have handled that whole rogue one situation very differently.
@VegetaLF7
7 ай бұрын
The original TIE Defenders from Legends were far more useful than the ones from Rebels. Grand Admiral Zaarin's TIE Defender (Not Thrawn, he was actually fighting against Zaarin) had the upper wing equipped with ion cannons instead of lasers, allowing more versatility to the Defender than the ones we see in Rebels. Zaarin's TIE Defenders also had the TIE Avengers developed along side them, basically TIE Interceptors with hyperdrives, shielding and missiles. Together the TIE Defenders and TIE Avengers would have been more than a match for their Rebel counterparts.
@sergeipohkerova7211
7 ай бұрын
The Tie Defender can only save the Empire in fan fiction because canon plot armor ensures the Republic will win. If such an empire really did face the Alliance in a real world, the e Empire would win like Stone Cold Steve Austin bodyslamming a toddler.
@generaljimmies3429
7 ай бұрын
How would an Arwing(Star Fox Series) fare against a TiE Defender? Or Star Wars in general?
@jacklatta1890
3 ай бұрын
You need also to factor in the probability of the loss of ship per engagement…what good are 5 ships lost because they must return to the platform that houses and launches them, rather than make a jump? Let’s make things even more complex, in that new defenders would require retrofitting hanger bays in order to launch them, as star destroyers had custom made launch stations that would obviously not fit the defender as configured… There are far more reasons why they were not supported by the empire than simple cost of production. I could go on and on, but I think I’ve made my point. This was far more complicated than 5-1 cost ratio. And Vader supported them after he had flown one, so call it a geek with his new favorite toy.
@Dreamfox-df6bg
7 ай бұрын
Take a Quasar Fire-class cruiser-carrier, give it TIE-Defenders and position it in the centre of a sector. They could deal with any pirates and Rebels quickly, even if they had to split their Defenders if several emergencies came in at the same time. At the worst the Defenders could hold up an opponent until a Star Destroyer arrives. Even at the higher Cost of the TIE-Defenders, overall the Imperial Fleet could have done it's job more efficiently and cheaper. And if you add several Quasars to a Star Destroyer you get a very potent strike force at a much lower cost than getting several Star Destroyers together. The same holds true if you load the Quasars with TIE-Fighters and TIE-Bombers. In the latter case the carriers could launch their fighters and bombers, jump out and wait in safety until the battle is over. And that's before you calculate that a Quasar was much more versatile, like carrying ground forces with their landing shuttles. True, no AT-AT's, but most other Imperial ground forces.
@alexerny5552
5 ай бұрын
So, what you’re saying is… Instead of having a flying Stormtrooper, we should have a flying Clone Trooper?
@BarzaRomanov
7 ай бұрын
The only ship that could save the Empire is the Quasar Fire cruiser-carrier or just a group of Gozanti-class assault carriers with some TIE fighters, interceptors, and bombers patrolling. The rebellion needed freedom of movement, and those fleets would negate just that.
@jeffagain7516
7 ай бұрын
Always figured there must have been some "in-joke" leading to Thrawn's project being given the name "Defender". There's nothing 'defensive' about a ship with such formidable attack power. Regardless, the Rebs were pretty fortunate the project never saw full fruition. Especially if the manufacturing was diversified, to eliminate the single source "attack us HERE" advert that comes with single source operations.
@VegetaLF7
7 ай бұрын
Funny enough if he had used the other of Grand Admiral Zaarin's fighters it would make far more sense. The TIE Avenger, basically a step between Vader's TIE Advanced and the TIE Interceptor. Zaarin designed both the Avenger and Defender in Legends, with Thrawn opposed to him, which makes it hilarious that they gave the Defender to Thrawn in Rebels. Thrawn was fighting *against* the Defender, not for it.
@youtube7076
7 ай бұрын
10:30 my bad, i only count six lazers not the 8 mentioned...
@Pseudowolf
7 ай бұрын
The thing not mentioned is what would have happened with the Defender being built and not the Death Star? Without the Death Star, the Alliance doesn’t band together to steal the plans, Leia isn’t pursued for the plans, Kenobi, Luke, Han & Chewie aren’t brought into the fight. There’s no Battle of Yavin because Leia isn’t traced there. The destruction of Alderaan doesn’t serve to galvanize the Rebellion further. I think that without the Death Star, the Rebellion just remains a loose collection of groups all doing their own thing but eventually getting picked off. Yes, there would always be rebels, but would they ever be enough to take on the Empire in a fight and win? And more to the point, would anyone have been able to confront Vader and the Emperor?
@jdub6909
7 ай бұрын
The Venator fleet was retired and scrapped to make financial room and materials for the Death Star.
@Omega_1111
6 ай бұрын
the big advantage is the lack of moral for the rebels. a weapon of immense fear and terror, like the death star, becomes a rallying cry when used and a symbol of hope when destroyed. the TIE Defender doesn't have that issue. sure any pilot who manages to take one down is gonna get his pats on the back for beating a superior fighter, but taking down 1, 2 or even 100 doesn't get rid of them all. they are still there, still a threat. they can't do anything so horrific (on their own) that their very existence becomes a slight that rebels and terrorists can use to garner support, and they aren't so dangerous that their destruction proves any kind of "see? we *can* win!" sentiments. and if nothing else, it means they can keep space clear of pesky fighters and let their Star Destroyers do their job without getting harassed or destroyed by singular fighter pilots.
@keithfrederick877
7 ай бұрын
In legends, it had ion cannons too.
@Justanotherconsumer
7 ай бұрын
Thrawn was good at winning battles, but the politics of the situation were the real war. The Death Star and the Tarkin Doctrine were trying to win the war by crushing the spirit of the resistance. The Defender would simply win battles, and the Imperial fleet could already do that.
@JBTriple8
7 ай бұрын
Tie defender project could be still revitalized under thrawns returns to the known galaxy
@Bonatno
7 ай бұрын
I don’t know why the empire and its fleets didn’t have rotating patrols of tiefighter wings for protection. No current USN strike group traverses the seas without fighter patrol cover
@midgetydeath
7 ай бұрын
Think about it this way: the TIE Defender cost around twice an X-Wing while it was in limited production. If it had entered full mass-production, it likely would have been cheaper than an X-Wing. And the Empire originally intended to replace its TIEs with the X-Wing anyway, so the cost wasn't so much of an issue as it seems on the surface.
@bobafett1313
7 ай бұрын
Nothing could have saved the Empire, they were up against an unstoppable force: plot armor. Nothing beats plot armor
@werewolfjedi38
7 ай бұрын
Honestly, the tie defender being a lead ship would make plenty of sense. It has the firepower to take down basically any other fighter in the galaxy, so if you built it as a 1 per wing setup, effectively screening and setting up advantageous positions for the defender with 5 or so supporting basic tiefighters, its a much more powerful deployment in a capital ship engagement. Then you can also send out just a single squad of defenders on extended patrols due to the hyper drive ability the frame has. A squad of 3 defenders doing a single disabling run at the larger crusier and then hyperspace jumping away to their destroyer, is effectively using the rebel's tactics against them.
@DrankenDune
7 ай бұрын
The normal TIE would’ve worked beastly well if they still used venators.
@BennyFromFalloutNewVegas
7 ай бұрын
Looks like the one from Rebel Assault 2
@GAJake
7 ай бұрын
Weapons win battles, logistics win wars
@dannylavoie8348
7 ай бұрын
More Arquitens light cruisers also instead of star destroyers
@darthmaul4773
7 ай бұрын
Way better than the Death Star.
@LeePrice-r9u
7 ай бұрын
The Empire didn't need the Tie Defender. Tie Interceptors with shielding would have been a good compromise. They needed a more flexible fleet. Fewer Imperial Star Destroyers and more light crusers and frigates.
@OfficialDoggyYT
4 ай бұрын
6:26 "a TIE Defender might not be able to take on 5 TIE Fighters" bro what are you on? a single TIE/D Defender Elite can easily take on 10 X-Wings and beat the living sh out of them without any trouble and without plot armor, its obvious.
@Fortnite_Frost_Clips
7 ай бұрын
The empire put a lot into training their pilots and if they put the same effort into developing their tie fighters they would’ve crushed the rebellion
@jeremygair4007
6 ай бұрын
No a tie defender absolutely would defeat 5 tie fighters straight up. No contest.
@badonkeykong7506
7 ай бұрын
I can't agree with the premise that the Imperial Navy was a paper tiger, it was highly effective against conventional warfare tactics. I can't think of any militaries that have had wonderful success against asymmetrical warfare tactics, it's proven effective throughout history. Even when the underdog using asymmetrical tactics lost the overall war, they've often managed to cause serious damage to the military aparatus and the reputation of the enemy. You can criticize the Empire's ability to adapt, and that's valid, but the ships and armaments they used were extremely effective and worked according to design (except the Death Star). They absolutely crushed The Alliance when it came to fleet combat, and it wasn't until the Moncal MC90 was introduced that the Alliance had anything that could stand up against a single ISD, and even then, one on one it was unlikely for a MC90 to take down an ISD. It should also be noted that the Imperial Navy was designed for planetary subjugation, and was exceptionally good at that. For planets without a shield you could jump into orbit and Blitzkrieg the planetary defenses with the fast TIE fighter, while the ISDs bombarded ground targets. I will conceed that the TIE was an inferior fighter that ultimately cost the Empire in well trained personnel; no shielding, no life support and no hyperdrive are unforgiveable flaws that cost lives.
@Darkclaw00
Ай бұрын
Without watching the rest of the video i can tell you, if Thrawn had free hand with all of his plans, the Rebels would have lost, hands down, Thrawn absolutly knows what he is doing, he is a tactical genious, on a danger scale from 1 (wump rat) to 10 (death star) he is way above death star, he can learn a species tactics just by studying theyr art and then beat them without giving them a chance. He is the most dangerous weapon in Palpatines arsenal, thank the force that we was rarely used.
@youtube7076
7 ай бұрын
now thrawn has worg riders
@penguinogaming7571
7 ай бұрын
Soooo yes?
@jordanmchone823
7 ай бұрын
Are we talking the standard defender or the defender elite?
@desertstorm272
7 ай бұрын
Its not the ships, Its the pilots.
@Jay_76
7 ай бұрын
"Could the Tie Defender Have Saved the Empire?" No. The actual development of the TIE Defender came too late in the war against the Rebellion to turn the tide in favor of the Empire. The fighter that _COULD_ have saved the Empire was the TIE Avenger(Darth Vader's TIE from A New Hope). It had four cannons, shields, and was capable of jumping to hyperspace, everything the Defender could do. But, the Empire, being the Empire, thought that, by standardizing a hyperspace capable fighter, the capital ship budget would suffer. So, the Avenger was dismissed in favor of the TIE Interceptor, a shieldless ship that was no more durable, albeit faster, than the standard TIE Fighter and still dependent upon carrier vessels to deploy.
@jeffs.4124
7 ай бұрын
A hyperspace capable Tie fighter would have radically changed the war
@VegetaLF7
7 ай бұрын
It did in Legends. TIE Avengers, TIE Defenders, specialized TIE Interceptors, TIE Shuttles, Assault Gunboats, Missile Boats, Preybird Starfighters, TIE Phantoms, even the TIE Predators used by the Fel Empire. There was a wide range of hyperspace capable TIEs, the vast majority of bases and ships just kept to the basic TIE Fighters, Interceptors, and Bombers.
@senatethewinstonchurchill
7 ай бұрын
"Palpatine wouldve won the war if the empire just mas produced the Maus"
@dragonweyr44
6 ай бұрын
I think that the TIE defender was in a similar position as the jets that came out at the end of WW2. Too little, too late Even the Interceptor may have been too late
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