Miraak's claim about being the first Dragonborn has never sat quite right with me. In trying to corroborate his claim, I was unable to find anything that backed it up, and discovered what could perhaps be a whole new lens to view Miraak through. If you think I'm off-base or wrong here, please let me know. I'm totally open to criticism, and I'd be glad to be proven wrong, hence the "(Probably)" in the title. Thank you, -Dareloth
@OleDirtyMacSanchez
5 ай бұрын
Another interesting little tidbit is there is Canonical albeit sparse evidence supporting that Akivir and Atmora was once part of a Great Continent in the Great North of Nirn, Mundus, or whatever else it's called. Due to Volcanic Activity, Wars of the Gods, the Ancient Elves, or something else, parts of the Continent split off. Like you said not much is known about the Ancient History, and Bethesda hasn't really touched upon it.
@jansonshrock2859
5 ай бұрын
my devil's-advocate answer I have for you is that perhaps Mirrak predates the gift of dragonblood being bestowed in mortals, and as a result the knowledge about being dragonborn was part of the "thrown away knowledge" of the universe, and guess who so happens to be the god of the unused, leftover, or thrown away knowledge about reality? Hermaeus Mora. I believe that Mirrak served the dragons well, received some power and was maybe even taught some shouts by dragons, but Hermaeus mora shows mirrak the secret to learning dragon shouts as fast as a dragonborn can (whether or not he actually gave Mirrak dragon blood is beyond me, but I bet Hermaeus mora knew how it is that those with the dragon blood can learn shouts so easily and he showed Mirrak that) and on top of that teaches him the bend will words. Ultimately I believe Mirrak is *effectively* the first dragonborn since he has all the powers of a dragonborn, but he does NOT have true dragon blood in his veins and he is not destiny-bound to destroy alduin. I don't think Mirrak is telling the truth when he tells the last dragonborn that Mirrak could have killed Alduin if he wanted to, as I don't think Mirrak knew dragonrend or even knew about it (unless all mirrak had to do was kill alduin normally but in sovengarde and the player uses dragonrend there just to bring him to the ground) and also he 100% would have tried to kill aldiun during his first rule of solthseim cause aldiun would have been one of the only threats to him to exist at the time.
@OleDirtyMacSanchez
5 ай бұрын
@@jansonshrock2859 Interesting Hypothesis. Got any more? I ask because you seem to have good Critical Thinking skills and coming up with more benefits all of the Skyrim Community.
@jansonshrock2859
5 ай бұрын
@@OleDirtyMacSanchez For mirrak specifically, my other hypothesis is that maybe there was a dragon break that went unrecorded when mortals first received the gift of the dragon blood (something to do with the blood of creatures outside of time being put into creatures bound by time causes time to break) so technically theres multiple first dragonborns
@OleDirtyMacSanchez
5 ай бұрын
@@jansonshrock2859 Technically the Gods and even the Deadric Gods are Dragon Breaks themselves. They're very existence is a Dragon Break. Pretty sure they could make Dragon Breaks at will, but it probably takes alot of power to do.
@st.anselmsfire3547
5 ай бұрын
I actually kind of like how The Elder Scrolls has characters who are straight-up lying. Yes, it's an easy way for them to justify retcons, but it's cool how it also adds some realism to the mythos.
@Sanguivore
2 ай бұрын
Agreed! The “unreliability” of some of the characters really makes The Elder Scrolls come alive for me.
@BasileosHerodou
2 ай бұрын
Just like how early medieval kings would claim Augustus or Caesar as their direct ancestor
@@siyzerix FECK OFF PEASENT NAZEEM WOULD NEVER SEE YOU HANGING AROUND THE CLOUD DISTRICT
@Gameprojordan
2 ай бұрын
Hermeus Mora would know if he was or not
@iamthehobo
3 ай бұрын
I love that these are more like an in-depth research paper than a basic lore explanation that I would get elsewhere
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! I use footnotes and basically write them like I used to my history papers, haha.
@jackgrove4621
2 ай бұрын
it is on the wiki, legends and confirmed by devs that miraak is indeed the first dragonborn. It may not sit right but that does not mean it is not a fact.
@AvengerAtIlipa
2 ай бұрын
9:42 I've played too much Skyrim, and so i misread "Herma-Mora, an unmistakable analogue" for "Herma-Mora, an unskippable dialogue."
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
Lol, unskippable dialogue is one of his defining features.
@jorgeochoa12
2 ай бұрын
I did not expect Bart Ehrman to come up in a discussion of Skyrim DLC Lore analysis
@jebbthefool
Ай бұрын
I've always held that Miirak was the first "Dragonborn" but not the first Dovahkiin. I'd like to believe that there are many Dovahkiin in the world, and there will continue to be so. Dovahkiin exist to keep Dragons in check. That is to say they're the true executioners of dragons but also a bridge between dovah and mortal. Otherwise, dragons could theoretically just keep resurrecting as we see Alduin do for his brothers and sisters. However since most people wouldn't be aware of it, most would just assume themselves to be descended from Dragons. Dovahkiin can translate to Dovah:Dragon and Kiin:descended from. The ancient nords probably mistranslated the Dovahzul for dovahkiin or simplified it as Dragonborn because they probably assumed that anyone with an innate ability to learn the thuum must've once been a slain dragon whose soul must've been reborn as man. The Dragon Priests were probably such individuals as many draugr/ancient nords as well as Akavirians are able to use the thuum although limitedly. When Miraak rebelled rather than call him Dovahkiin (their name in the oppressors tongue) his followers probably only referred to him as Dragonborn as a slight to the Dovah. Miraak more than likely slew some dragons and ate their souls. Those who were loyal to Miraak witnessed these slayings and raised the Dragonborn to Arthurian legend and thus began the changing of history where the Dovahkiin became a slayer of Dragons. Eventually the Akaviri later having learned of an individual who slew dragons and ate the souls fled Akavir in search of a leader and a land that could protect them from dragon tyranny. So Miraak became the first dragonborn and the Akaviri read the elderscroll which stated that Alduin would be slain by the Dragonborn. Since they didn't see anything pass that they assumed our PC was the Last Dragonborn. Hence why Miraak referred to himself as the "First" and us as the "Last".
@blorpbleepboop
14 сағат бұрын
@@jebbthefool or Miraak is the actual first Dragonborne and you guys are over complicating it
@dillongage
Ай бұрын
I mean. Hes the first dragon born anyone, anywhere knows about, so far all intents and purposes he may as well be the first. Clearly no one before him had ever been noticeably dragon born, otherwise the dragons would have never let him join their ranks or attain ANY level of power. They wouldnt intentionally grant power to, quite literally, the only earthly being besides themsleves capable of actually killing them, if they already understood what a dragonborn was and how they worked. With that in mind, its pretty safe to say Miraak was the firsr dragonborn that did anything at all even slightly relevant to the fact that he was dragonborn. If there was one before him, they likely lived and died without ever realizing what they were. So while his claim might not be literally true, its also not exactly wrong.
@ASavageEye
5 ай бұрын
This is a fun and interesting theory but that is all it is. It is stated quite clearly who and WHAT Miraak was and it was not left with any form of doubt. The entire premise of the story is that the First will defeat the Last, putting an end to the cycle of Dragonborn being needed. Once our hero dies it is over and the next cycle can begin in whatever form it manifests itself. All you have done here is take a bunch of information from various sources and concocted a massive " what if?" around Miraak. Why do people like you always go out of the way to ruin a perfectly good story just so you can try and prove yourselves smarter than everyone else? The sheer amount of "could, possibly and maybe" in this is ridiculous.
@sethharris813
5 ай бұрын
Ever since Miraak casually says he could have easily beaten Alduin but chose a different path I knew he was a liar.
@st.anselmsfire3547
5 ай бұрын
"I could've beaten Alduin... if I wanted to."
@theemerdareloth
5 ай бұрын
Same energy as "I have a girlfriends, she just goes to a different school, you wouldn't know her."
@Miss_Camel
5 ай бұрын
Ever since I had to spend hours googling to learn to crouch and hide and use conjurations to let himself get tired out and die because he’d glitch if I even hit him ONCE, I doubted his claims. 🤣
@lethal5383
5 ай бұрын
Miraak wasn't lying about that. He never said he could have (easily) slain Alduin, just that he could have slain him, he straight up says that Alduin could have been troublesome to him. Given we know Miraak is a Dragonborn one of the only being capable of slaying Alduin and more than likely knew about dragonrend and was in process of recieveing knowledge from Hermaeus Mora he wouldn't be lying because he was def capable or at least qualified to beat Alduin during that time.
@Trelitty11
5 ай бұрын
@@lethal5383problem is Herma mora didn’t have knowledge of dragonrend since it was created by the 3 nord heroes only after they had asked miraak for help and he said no .
@tactile2878
Ай бұрын
Miraak: "The first dragonborn, meets the last dragonborn." Player: "That's a nice argument, Miraak, why don't you back it up with a source?" Miraak: "My source is that I made it the fuck up."
@Become-Eggplant
Ай бұрын
Nice Maxor MGSR reference
@AssassinBunny107
Ай бұрын
@@tactile2878 🤣🤣🤣 gold
@kristopherwilliams9031
5 ай бұрын
What I always personally thought was that Miraaks claim of being the first dragonborn was misleading but not particularly a lie in a sense. We have to recall what a dragonborn is by nature, they aren't just divinely blessed mortals, they are dragon slayers. The only mortals who can truely and completely slay a dragon due to their ability to absorb dragon souls and steal their powers. It's possible what Miraak meant by "first dragonborn" was that he was the first dragon slayer. This would also explain his falling out with the dragon cult. As a member of a cult who worships and serves the dragonkind, the act of dragon slaying alone would be seen as blasphemy, then to go even further and absorb the dragons soul and steal its knowledge and power which rendered the slain dragon unressurrectable even to Alduin. That would be the seen as the ultimate heresy by the cult. It would also explain why Hakon and the others sought Miraaks help defeating Alduin. They wanted the aid of the first true dragonslayer who just might have the raw power and natural disposition to oppose and defeat Alduin.
@ASavageEye
5 ай бұрын
There is nothing in lore that states that a Dragonborn MUST be a dragon slayer. It is stated , quite clearly, that a Dragonborn is any mortal ' born with the blood of a Dragon'. Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn but he never killed a single Dragon. Even the stupid guards of Whiterun knew that.
@RickTheWiseST
2 ай бұрын
exactly what i was thinking- there could have been many dragonborns before miraak, but he was the first to be recognised as one by his dragon slaying. (unlike like the royal family of the empire who were dragonborn but never killed a dragon)
@richardprice1378
2 ай бұрын
I believe talos would be considered the true first dragonborn. Imperial emperor's were dragonborns technically as the dragon blood ran through the septim dynasty up until the 4th era
@Michael-bn1oi
2 ай бұрын
@@richardprice1378 That's really dumb. There are many confirmed Dragonborn well before Tiber Septim/whatever you want to call whoever became Talos.
@braedonmatthews
Ай бұрын
@@richardprice1378There are a lot of confirmed dragonborns before tiber septim
@HeldIntegral
5 ай бұрын
Dragon priests not being able to shout in game is such an oversight 🤦
@theemerdareloth
5 ай бұрын
It's ridiculous, honestly
@ElucidYT
5 ай бұрын
Dragon Priests aren't dragonborn so learning shouts would be really difficult and take years and years to learn. Their masks have never been stated to give them the ability to shout, but it's known that they draw most of their power from their masks to rule over their subjects. So personally, I think just because they have the makes doesn't mean they should be able to shout Then again, countless Draugr shout so you may be on to something 😅
@sephikong8323
5 ай бұрын
@@ElucidYTThing is, Thu'Um was a VERY big deal in ancient nordic culture, it was essential for war and was central in religious matter as well, so the fact that in game the religious leaders of the era cannot use it, even though they got to that level of power after literally decades of mastery is really weird. The only explanation that makes some bit of sense is that their masks prevent them from using their voice freely and thus cannot use Thu'Um because the Dragons didn't want to have such powerful humans around that could actually challenge them so they took away their Shout in a way in exchange for some other powers through the masks which made them more subservient
@HeldIntegral
3 ай бұрын
Except that miraak has a mask and he can shout but Vahlok the Jailer is a maskless dragon priest, and he won't shout. Despite being known to have the ability. I think it's clear from Morokei that they can shout as far as lore is concerned, but due to game limitations, they are not able
@alexandertiberius1098
2 ай бұрын
@@ElucidYTThere are draugr that can shout, likely because they were dragon cultists who dedicated their lives to the dragons.
@zehkiel8018
5 ай бұрын
To be fair, "the last dragonborn" sounds better than "the latest dragonborn".
@RealBradMiller
2 ай бұрын
The Latest Dragonborn 2: Imp Stool Boogaloo
@Koumajutsu
Ай бұрын
or even "The Current Last Dragonborn", assuming, "There can be only one" {cue highlander theme}
@HappyBeezerStudios
Ай бұрын
@@Koumajutsu and we can't even be sure about that.
@dillongage
Ай бұрын
@@HappyBeezerStudios we can be absolutely sure thats not true. Miraak was the first dragon born, and he never died. Therefore, there has ALWAYS been atleast 2 dragonborn, from Alessia all the way through Martin Septim. Literally thousands of years of 2 concurrent dragonborn.
@MrHikagemono
2 ай бұрын
I always stood on the idea, that he means "The First Dragonborn" to stand against Alduin, and us being the last, according to the prophecy. As he so boldly claims "I could have slain him myself, but chose otherwise." I think he might mean it chronologically as in: Dragonborn characters, who have opposed Dragon Lordship, or rebelled. But then again, same as for your own theory, no real evidence supporting either versions.
@ossiejcurtis
2 ай бұрын
This is definitely it. But there could be more ancient nord dragonborns in atmora or men in akavir
@dracorex426
Ай бұрын
We know for a fact that Miraak is a Dragonborn. We don't have any records of a Dragonborn existing before him. So he's definitely the first _recorded_ Dragonborn. That, at least, lends some credence to his claim. We also can be pretty sure that he meant "first" in the chronology sense because otherwise it wouldn't be worth noting that the First Dragonborn and the Last Dragonborn were meeting.
@jimm60701
Ай бұрын
I think the two main problems here are that: 1. You've found no real evidence of your new conclusion; while this would be fine in theory, you actively dismissed direct testimony for not being backed by this. 2. Your new conjecture falls apart for the exact same counterpoints you made to discredit the original claim. We have no evidence that, if Dovahkiin existed before Miraak, that none of them ever served Mora. As you pointed out in your original deconstruction of Miraaks first title; the "First" in "First Servant" doesn't necessarily pertain to chronology. In fact; it seems significantly less likely in this scenario. "First" in the note doesn't even refer to Miraak as a Dragonborn, and the liklihood that Miraak is a chrononical first servant of a creature as ancient as Mora is dismissable in it's own right. This notes reference to Miraak as "The First Servant" is due to Miraak being the "Primary" or most significant servant. No other interpretation makes sense. As such it's not reasonable to use this as 'evidence' of Miraak being the first *dragonborn* servant specifically. (He is, but only by virute of being the first Dragonborn). The simplest answer here is obviously the correct one. The Dragonborn came about as a means to settle an imbalance within Akatosh's presence on Nirn. Prophecised to slay Alduin, the First Dragonborn was born as a disloyal servant of the Dragons; however corrupted by Mora and eventually taken by him, new Dragonborns arose through the ages in wait for Alduins return. Until finally the deed was done, Alduin was defeated and the need for a Dragonborn left the world. With the largest fragment of Akatosh returned, the smaller fragments intended to defeat and recapture Alduin no longer serve a purpose and similarly, rejoin the whole.
@Mustang-fu6on
5 ай бұрын
Yeah, so, just one thing. I watched the whole video, and while I agree that Miraak being the first Dragonborn ever just because he said so is improbable, there was a little inconsistency that caught my eye - in considering that when Miraak says "first" he is referring to "serving Hermaeus Mora", how would he know that the other Dragonborn in front of him is going to be the "last" to serve Herma-Mora? Like, he planned to break free from Hermaeus, and he planned to kill the LDB, seeing as he sent cultists to do so. Why would he consider that the LDB would become the last servant of the Daedric Prince? As I write this, maybe, just maybe, I think that Miraak was actually a genius and sent the cultists knowing they'd get murdered, just to attract the last Dragonborn to Solstheim where he could then swap places with them, making this whole debacle make sense in the end. But then this is Bethesda. Do I think they had the foresight to come up with this? No. What I do think they thought was more like: "whoah first confronts last cool cool sell sell."
@venerablewu8744
2 ай бұрын
Because the world will end soon Thats what alduin was supposed to do ages ago even So yes once the world is destroyed nobody can be under hermanos servitude
@Mustang-fu6on
2 ай бұрын
@@venerablewu8744 that would make sense if Miraak didn't have special dialogue for the Dragonborn if they already beat Alduin. He says "I could have defeated Alduin myself if I wanted to, but I chose another way." So basically this guy that was defeated by a dragon priest during the dragon war is telling me that he could slay the ultimate dragon if he wanted to, but he didn't because reasons. Sounds like a total bullshit claim, right? But still, it's in the game and it makes it impossible for him to actually know that the world was about to end.
@davidmaddy8382
2 ай бұрын
@@Mustang-fu6onYh I think canonically you’re meant to beat aldiun before first meeting miraak cuz then the prophecy can be aligned to your actions.
@Mustang-fu6on
2 ай бұрын
@@davidmaddy8382 yeah, I am of that opinion as well. I once saw somewhere that that's how Bethesda is going to get rid of the Last Dragonborn. They defeat Alduin, defeat Harkon, change the course of the Civil War, then go off to Solstheim to face Miraak, where they are then imprisoned by Hermaeus Mora and forced to stay in Apocrypha forever. That way they (Bethesda) don't have to worry about a Demigod with the ancient power of the Thu'um and an army of dragons at their beck and call messing around in their setting.
@davidmaddy8382
2 ай бұрын
@@Mustang-fu6on Really??? That be would be unfortunate but I can understand it. There isn’t many that can stop to challenge TLD’s current state. It would be unfair 😂
@DioBrandoWRYYYYYY
2 ай бұрын
I just get a big dirty feeling from the line about the first and last being something that someone (in my mind, Emil, because he's everyone's favorite whipping boy) just pitched that line because it sounded cool and made it sound like the fight you're about to have has even more "meaning" and they just didn't care about any further implications.
@Mustang-fu6on
2 ай бұрын
@@DioBrandoWRYYYYYY my opinion exactly, mate. Thanks for putting it out there.
@Ilzhain
2 ай бұрын
One reason I think that Miraak could actually be the first dragonborn chronologically speaking or at least see himself that way is the reason for the last dragonborn's existence. According to another theory I heard at one point and buy into fully, Alduin was created to be the world-eater but never had any intention of fulfilling that role, preferring instead to rule over mortals with his dragon cult. The last dragonborn is blessed by Akatosh not to stop Alduin from eating the world but from regaining his power and rebuilding the dragon cult, every reference I can recall to alduin returning to devour the world is extrapolation by characters in game based on his title, with the actual prophecy merely denoting that he will return. If this is the case it would make sense that Miraak could have been blessed by Akatosh in order to kill the wayward Alduin but as he said himself he 'chose a different path'.
@imALazyPanda
Ай бұрын
I do agree with this. I am not sure where i heard this or what can corroborate it in game but the dragonborn was created by akatosh in response to alduin. Which would mean that the first dragonborn chronologically would have to be during the reign of alduin, which would line up with miraak.
@GamerEnthusiast3188
20 күн бұрын
Considering that prior to Al-Esh, Paravant, or Emperess Alessia that there was no deity existing as Akatosh. The ancient Atmora worshipped their time deity Alduin, whereas the Aldmer/Altmer worshipped Auriel their time deity. Al-Esh made up Akatosh to appease their new Nordic friends of Skyrim and to keep the newly freed Nedes united for her Empire. The Nedes believed in the same deities as their Ayleid oppressors through the centuries of slavery. Therefore, we should be more precise when speaking of figures prior to Al-Esh. Also the Amulet of Kings story first speak of Akatosh gifting Al-esh but that is upon her deathbed. Thus Akatosh was most likely added in via Imperial propaganda after her death. Dragonborn understandings will have to be fleshed out more as it really ties into Ancient Atmora and the Dragon cult of those eras.
@Ilzhain
20 күн бұрын
@@GamerEnthusiast3188 iirc Paarthurnax says something along the lines of 'Alduin's fate was sealed when he claimed the authority that by right belonged to our father Bormahu, Akatosh'. I'm paraphrasing a bunch but that line certainly implies that Alduin is and always has been a separate (though connected) being to the aedric entity that the dragons know as Bormahu which Paarthurnax recognises as being one and the same with Akatosh.
@GamerEnthusiast3188
20 күн бұрын
@@Ilzhain Yeah the lore is a bit all over the place in reality. Because we will read certain in game books in Morrowind, Oblivion etc., that is later muddied or at worst completely retconned in Skyrim and ESO. Again from my perspective too many changes were made to the Nords' lore. The ancient tongues for example were able to Shout and it had no connection to dragons or the Dragon Cult prior to ESV. I tend to give more credence to the lore that is tied to the more 'historical', 'cultural' stories. The greybeards tend to tie the voice a bit more towards Kyne/Kynerath. Again honestly I think Bethesda muddied the Nordic lore with Alduin to such a degree that they needed to try to explain the Father of the Dragons, turning Alduin from the Chief Deity to the First Born. They then attempted to make the slight differentiation between Aka and Akatosh. Whereas before it was only Alduin.
@belo77o
5 ай бұрын
"*Projectile vomits or something, I don't know why he makes this noise, but it's hilarious,*" Best part of the video.
@theemerdareloth
5 ай бұрын
It's my favorite part of the DLC hahaha
@Khoros-Mythos
5 ай бұрын
*BLARRRRGGGHHHH*
@KoshTimeStepper
3 ай бұрын
I think with excitement of having another Dragonborn as a servant, he stubs one of his tentacles on his desk leg or something.
@GlobTheDabGlob
5 ай бұрын
I will never get tired of Elder Scrolls lore.
@SwankyKitteh82
5 ай бұрын
The story and narrative ending for the Dragonborn DLC does allude to the fact that the player character never canonically leaves Mora's realm after defeating Miraak. So, like so many legendary heroes before them, they'll simply up and disappear from history suddenly from the perspective of the common folk of Tamriel. This of course, also fits Bethesda's typical modus operandi in removing the previous game's player character from the playing field to make room for the next game's narrative. The previous instance of this being "The Hero Of Kvatch" and later the Oblivion Crisis from Elder Scrolls 4. Who would put on the mantle of Sheogorath, and thus slowly over time assimilated that mantle to literally become Sheogorath. Only maintaining small cryptic snippets of their former consciousness from before they did so. Great video, though. Do carry on with this path.
@matthewpaddon3895
5 ай бұрын
And of course the Nerevarine, who, after the events of Morrowind, seemingly travels to Akavir and is never again heard or seen.
@deadsoul7409
5 ай бұрын
Honestly they shouldn't have made us a dragonborn cuz they're simply too powerful and significant to just disappeare with no trace also miraak said he can escape mora's realm if he absorbed our souls so why can't we do the same? Plus don't you remember that when we visit to apocrypha it's our soul/mind that goes there wich means our body is still in nirn
@Trelitty11
5 ай бұрын
It’s not hinted at at all that you don’t leave apopchrypha ….. re read that dialogue
@shauntempley9757
5 ай бұрын
@@Trelitty11 Yes. The quest begins when you leave for the Horn. That is where I suspect Miraak's quest occurs. This is different for the Shivering Isles, since all the other events have to take place in Oblivion, up to Tiber Septum fighting Dagon. I doubt he would tolerate any Daedric Prince attacking during that time. I think it ends canonically before the Horn is retrieved.
@Naruku2121
2 ай бұрын
@@shauntempley9757 So basically you could argue that canonically because the quest starts in the beginning phases of the main quest, that our PC gets wrapped up in the events of Solstheim, returns back to Skyrim to still defeat Aludin? While if they really wanted to make it a final end for the last DB the quest for DB gets unlocked after defeating Alduin?
@odd-eyes6363
2 ай бұрын
Seeing someone engage in TES lore from a historian standpoint is such a delight. I'm tired of people in the TES fandom just taking statements at face-value even if that makes the lore inconsistent with what we actually see in the games. Just look at how quickly people accept Pelinal is a time traveling cyborg and ignore the fact that there are almost no primary sources on his life, as the Song is just a supposed translation made by the Empire itself. No one talks about how the "praise Reman" thing is likely propaganda to legitimize a human Cyrodillic empire.
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@@odd-eyes6363 I should do an analysis of the Songs of Penial soon.
@Missingn0mast3r
2 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth if you do read up on Pelinal, i seem to recall there's a character involved in that story that *also* lays claim to being a first dragonborn of some kind, and might reinforce or recontextualize this video, depending on when they're around.
@HappyBeezerStudios
Ай бұрын
I see Penial as time traveling cyborg more as tongue--in-cheek weirdness in the lore. A bit like how the dwemer basically built god, realized the entire universe is just a dream, stopped believing in their own existence, and zero-summed themselves away. Or how Vivec knows that the Nerevarine can load a previous savegame, so no matter how often Vivec fights, his opponent can try again in an infinite amount of timelines and will eventually succeed. Or how Hermaeus Mora has cut content in his library. Content that got cut when the Aedra created Mundus.
@ihateyou5463
Ай бұрын
I mean, hes an incarnation of a god so its very possible the reman thing was real since the gods of tes go through the past present and future in ever second of the day, at least according to azura and vivec. The cyborg thing i feel like is less real, unless you consider him a cyborg because he doesnt have an organic heart
@kamixakadio2441
29 күн бұрын
There are 0 lore inconsistencies with Miraak being the First Dragonborn.
@symmetryking8884
5 ай бұрын
Elder Scrolls lore is one of my favorite interests, one which I have sunk an unbelievable amount of time into studying as a hobby over the last 13 or so years since I've fallen in love with the games. I love it when someone makes a video about the Elder Scrolls lore and not only clearly has researched the material, but also has a theory which is clearly substantiated with said material. While there is nothing directly corroborating that Miraak is the first Dragonborn chronologically over him just taking that as a title, he is the earliest example we have in lore of someone being Dragonborn. Not in recorded history yet, mind you. The first Dragonborn in recorded history, as recognized by most in universe historians, is Alessia. The events of Skyrim are what teach to us players that there was a Dragonborn in history who predates Alessia, he was simply not well known and hardly written about in accepted history. It is perfectly reasonable, and quite likely, that there could be a Dragonborn that predates Miraak as well, we simply have yet to discover them if they even exist at all. Regarding the dialogue that you quoted as the main lynchpin of your theory, I do not think it is conclusive unfortunately. While he refers to Miraak as "First Servant", he is the only one to ever do so directly as every example we have in the lore of him being referred to as First Servant is only in letters related to Sabinius. See "First Servant's Letter Page 1 and 2". Cipher Agrushna also refers to Miraak by that title, but she is only echoing what the player character said, and the player character just read it from the aforementioned letters. When you inquire to her about who the First Servant is, she gives vague reference that he is "merely a legend", but we have no seen these legends and cannot corroborate if she's just being an unreliable narrator. Just as you said, if only one or two sources make a claim to something, that isn't enough to take the claim as factual. Miraak being referred to as First Servant in these instances, while that could be due to a myriad of factors (one of those factors being your really well researched theory) it also does not directly contest the claim that he isn't The First Dragonborn as well as The First Dragonborn Servant of Hermaeus Mora, as both claims can be equally true. My personal opinion on why this is feasible is because Dragons by nature (and by extension Dragonborns) are always in pursuit of power and have been known to, on several occasions, give themselves to Gods in pursuit of this power. See Durnehviir in the Soul Cairn. So it would be reasonable that if a Dragonborn did exist before Miraak, they would have given their service to Hermaeus Mora as Mora was a well known and powerful God. Especially to the Skaal/Proto-Nordic pantheon of those who worshipped Dragons in the cults, who see Mora as one of their most feared and powerful Adversary Gods. I don't think that any of this point directly supports the claim that he is the First Dragonborn nor does it support the claim he wasn't and was simply just using it as a title, as the answer could simply be that Dragonborns who predate Hermaeus Mora simply didn't know of him, were too scared of him, or were too smart to be enslaved, etcetera, but it in my opinion the point is enough of a refutation to at least cast doubt on the idea that the letters are completely authoritative. I am sorry for the word salad. English is not my Native language and I apologize if any of this was hard to read. I love this video and how well researched it is and how much it made me think about this topic more indepth than I have in the past. I personally am of the opinion, after hearing your points and thinking on my own points, that Miraak is either The First Dragon, The First Servant, both, or neither. Keep up the great work man, and I can't wait for the next video 👍😊
@theemerdareloth
5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the great comment! Glad you enjoyed the video, and I'm always happy to hear other opinions that may differ from mine. I really like the extra details you added about the First Sevant stuff.
@symmetryking8884
5 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth Thank you for the response! I admit I had to do a bit of ad hoc research on my own as your points were really solid. I hope you have a great day. Can't wait to see more of these types of lore videos where you give your theories and also I'm super excited for the next attribute tier list. Those have quickly become my go to watch whenever I'm at work or school haha
@thomasfrye6335
Ай бұрын
I always saw it as he’s the first recorded Dragonborn, the first to realize their power. There likely were several before him, but they didn’t fully awaken.
@joshuamourning6650
16 күн бұрын
@@thomasfrye6335 very possible like who's to say we are the last dragonborn whos to say a new one appears to maybe create a new empire or if it's a elven dragonborn a empire of elven creation
@Espo11B
5 ай бұрын
Mirak was alive during the dragon war which is when Kyne granted humans the ability to shout. So it makes sense that the first Dragonborn would pop up around the same time.
@dillongage
Ай бұрын
He was alive well before the dragon war most likely. If he was alive during the Dragon War he likely would've been the leader, seeing as he could actually kill dragons permantly.
@Espo11B
Ай бұрын
@@dillongage in the game Mirak says the 3 heroes you fight with at the end asked him to join them in their fight against Alduin and he refused.
@doomguy19931
Ай бұрын
The Last Dragonborn: "That's a nice argument, Miraak. Why don't you back it up with a source?" Miraak: "My source is that I made it the fuck up."
@Calcifer4422
2 ай бұрын
Immediately subbed once I saw the historian quoting their epistemic schema, brilliant communication and reasoning skills and I hope you keep this up.
@ravindunandirathna1600
5 ай бұрын
By First Servant, i think it's supposed mean that Miraak was the first mortal Servant of Hermaeus Mora rather than the First Dragonborn Servant. It's said that Miraak is considered a myth even in Apocrypha and nobody there knows about it Dragonborn status so with that context it doesn’t make sense to them to think he's supposed to be the first dragonborn servant but does make sense if he's considered to be the first mortal servant since they know he's mortal from the Merathic Era (the Orc Cypher who gives you the quest says this). Another thing i consider about Miraak's claim about being the First Dragonborn is valid is because he was in Apocrypha itself for thousands of years learning which has knowledge from the past and the future. And the fact that other mortals of servants of Hermaeus Mora being shown to be incredibly knowledgeable on most subjects. For example a Servant of Mora without having prior knowledge of a person or an object can be be instantly knowledgeable about it's entire history by just looking at it for the first time. Others have shown the ability to see the threads of fate itself and even manipulate it in a smaller scale. Seekers are also shown to incredibly knowledgeable about universe and it's workings. They are the ones who write black books and have the ability to remember everything they read to a point where mortal servants of Hermaeus Mora looks at them at awe. And Miraak has the ability to command. With all those in mind i highly doubt Miraak's claim of being the First is wrong because if he really wasn't he and most others on Apocrypha would have already known that due to their background.
@theemerdareloth
5 ай бұрын
Well, my main points here are really: 1.) We don't know what he meant by First (i.e. First to do what) 2.) Just because there are no Dragonborns we know of prior, doesn't mean that Miraak is the first in the timeline In my eyes, there are too many unknowns (Akavir, unrecorded history, etc...) to conclude that Miraak is historically the first. I like your ideas here though, but I don't think they solve the problem of Miraak's meaning/intent. I also don't see what him having the Bend Will shout has to do with the prior stuff, but I may be misreading what you mean.
@ravindunandirathna1600
5 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth 1) First Servant seem pretty straight forward. He's first mortal servant of Hermaeus Mora. If you ask a cypher about First Servant they'll not tell you that he's the first dragonborn servant because they don't know about his dragonborn status. By First Dragonborn. He's the first mortal to have the blood and soul of a dragon. It's isn't about the actions he did or would do. 2) Sure we might not know whether he's the first or not because of the limited knowledge we have but my point is someone like Miraak definitely would given his background. If there were other dragonborns before him he would have definitely learned much about that during his time in Apocrypha and so would know that he was not the first dragonborn that existed on nirn. So I think his claim of being the first is pretty solid in that context.
@Sanguivore
2 ай бұрын
I’m curious: if Miraak *was* the First Dragonborn, why? Why did Akatosh bless him of all people as his first?
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@@Sanguivore That's a good question.
@ravindunandirathna1600
2 ай бұрын
@@Sanguivore Skyrim's Official Guide Book and Miraak's own dialogue hint that he was destined to slay Alduin. >So you have slain Alduin... Well done. I could have slain him myself, back when I walked the earth, but I chose a different path. Note in the second sentence where he says he chose a different path. As in originally he had his path/destiny laid out to him and while it was within fate, he was he was not bound by it and chose to walk his own.
@B3_W0lf
5 ай бұрын
Absolutely make more of this type of video! They inspire me more than most others to play the core games, TESL, etc. It adds depth to everything, and in doing so makes playing much more enjoyable. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
@ihaveadigbick.3785
2 ай бұрын
0:49 I thought the undead dragon priests in general weren't liches, just very powerful draugrs and the named ones are only more powerful thanks to the dragons bestowing them masks, which they were named after. Also, isn't the quest with Hevnoraak is about we trying to prevent him to becoming a lich? It would be weird if they were all liches except Hevnoraak who is some reason isn't one at the time the Dragonborn is exploring Valthume while all the others are.
@YourWaywardDestiny
2 ай бұрын
My take on Miraak being the first _is_ a secret third option. See, if we take that the Last Dragonborn succeeding in sending Alduin back to Akatosh is how this happens, it is unlikely that the Last Dragonborn will be the literal last in history as you said, but that's still the title that one specific Dragon Born has. The Last Dragonborn is called that because of how hopeless a task it seemed to be putting down Alduin; if the LDB didn't succeed, that would be the last to be _known._ No other Dragonborn would survive Alduin's reign, not with how troublesome those who are Dragon Born tend to be. It's the same for Miraak over all. He probably wasn't the literal first ever mortal to be born with a dragon soul. He was just the first guy who figured out his gift well enough to cause a ruckus. He was probably the reason the dragons even have a word for this specific case, at least. Just the first of any note, not the first literally.
@TheAntiburglar
Ай бұрын
....I did not expect to see Dr Ehrman show up in an Elder Scrolls video, but I'm here for it. SUBSCRIBED!
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
Maybe I'll get him for a real interview for the next video.
@roozbeh6999
2 ай бұрын
> miraak isn't the first just because he said so ok is there any evidence to suggest otherwise ? > uhhh
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@@roozbeh6999 The point is there's no evidence supporting it either.
@roozbeh6999
2 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth there's more evidence supporting him being the first , the only thing backing up your theory is that he " may " have lied .
@1001pierre
2 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth Herma Mora states him to be the first. Thats pretty much all the evidence you need.
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@1001pierre Here's a link to Mora's UESP page. Every line of dialogue that Hermaeus Mora states in Skyrim is listed here. Feel free to search for one time Mora calls Miraak the First Dragonborn. It's okay that you don't like my theory. It's just for fun at the end of the day. And in all likelihood, Miraak IS supposed to be the literal First Dragonborn in the timeline. But Bethesda did not historically corroborate this fact. No one else other than Miraak says anything about him being the First to do anything, and the point is that, in real life, people lie, and that's a real question that must be considered when you do history.
@kamixakadio2441
29 күн бұрын
@@theemerdareloth Well, there is evidence supporting it. First being, this is a game, not actual world history, so any line said is done with more honest intent than what a person might say in real life, where lying is a constant issue. Second, the entire Advertisement for the Dragonborn DLC revolved around Miraak being the First Dragonborn, spoken by someone else that isn't Miraak. It said by Storn, the Skaal Shaman in the trailer: "You didn't think that you were the only one? He was the First Dragonborn." Third, he is an Actual Dragonborn, which innately gives him the same potential for power as The Last Dragonborn, meaning some of his claims, such as him having been able to kill Alduin if he wanted to, legitimate, which in turn would also support him Not being a liar with his claims, which means when he says he was the First Dragonborn, he's probably telling the truth. Miraak wasn't a simple Villain like Harkon, his crime was wanting to return to the world he came from, to be unbound from the service of a Daedric Prince he obviously knows has no intention of letting him go willingly. Now, I'm all for theories, Especially when it comes to The Elder Scrolls, given the wast expansive possibilities of unexplored happenings in the lore, but I find questioning the legitimacy of Miraak being the First Dragonborn, as ridiculous as questioning whether we, the player, is actually The Last Dragonborn. Bethesda Did corroborate this fact, it's just that expecting Dragonborns to have existed since the Early merethic era, it's just probably expectations that do not allign with the actuality of the reality of the canonical history of the TES world. I think it's also important to note, that since the TES world operates in Kalpas, you Can argue that Miraak is not the first dragonborn since the first Kalpa, since there's obviously been more Kalpas, but he certainly is the first dragonborn of This, the 13th Kalpa.
@ChrissieBear
17 күн бұрын
This is giving Bethesda too much credit. Their writing philosophy is literally "keep it simple, stupid".
@voxlity
2 ай бұрын
I always thought Miraak was just trying to say something cool and took some poetic liberties.
@Jonas_æ
5 ай бұрын
Interesting angle and theory. Can't say I'm completely onboard, as it just comes across like a very opaque and roundabout way to say it refers to first and last ((servant of Herma Mora)) without saying so directly or even really hinting to it. Especially the Elder Scroll prophecy has no mention of Mora, yet speaks of the dragonborn being the last. It's a reach. Not a bad reach, but a reach nonetheless. Regardless, I really enjoyed the video. Great presentation of the content and your ideas and methods. Would love to see you do more.
@Jonas_æ
5 ай бұрын
My personal interpretation is that it is actually as simple as stated. Miraak was the first granted the dragonblood/ soul of a dragon, and the Skyrim main character is the last. Miraak was destined to slay Alduin. I believe that is why he was granted the dragonblood. He turned from that path, and Alduin's slaying was postponed with the use of the Elder Scroll at the Throat of the World. The Last Dragonborn was granted the dragonblood in the time when Alduin was sent to, and by choosing to walk that path he would do what the first dragonborn was destined to do - thereby becoming the last dragonborn. As in the last to be given the task of slaying Alduin, as that was the inital purpose of the dragonborn. I'm keeping this short. I could go on about Alduin as the aspect of end of time, the Aka oversoul, the dragonborn emperors as a separate thing, but also the likelihood of the Empire not returning to what it was, thereby also making it true that there were no more dragonborn rulers, etc.. But that is the essence of it: First, because he got the job. Last, because he finished the job.
@non1263
5 ай бұрын
There's a theory somewhere out there (I don't remember who I heard it from) that Hermaeus Mora did something to Miraak or gave him knowledge that allowed him to become dragonborn. Perhaps it was knowledge plucked from the future and used in the current timeline for Miraak to steal the title of "First Dragonborn". Similar to how people theorize that Mankar Camoran used Mehrunes Razor to make himself Dragonborn in Paradise in order to wear the Amulet of Kings.
@KolonelCeanders
2 ай бұрын
An interesting theory, my only issue with this is why would hermaeus mora care about some random guy that found him
@HappyBeezerStudios
Ай бұрын
@@KolonelCeanders maybe dragonpriest Miraak was interesting enough. Or Hermaeus Mora saw the opportunity to gather knowledge.
@kamixakadio2441
18 күн бұрын
@@HappyBeezerStudios Highly doubt it.
@MoonlitTheft
2 ай бұрын
As always, I really like your ES-lore vids! Though I can't quite agree with the first meaning that he's the first servant in service. All you're really doing here is shoving two completely different things together ( servant and dragonborn ) as if it's impossible for him to be the first in two different things. Even more so since neither title actually has anything to do with each other. So it feels like a bit of a reach to me? To be fair, I think that while normally 'just because there isn't proof, doesn't mean it didn't happen' works perfectly, I feel it doesn't really hold up in games as much, even in an extremely detailed world like ES. Because 'there's no proof there were others before him' basically translates to, 'there never was any reasons for the writers to have to come up with one', and whether one shows up later to turn Miraak into a liar, or whether Miraak stays the first one, basically depends on the whim of a lorewriter in future games.
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@MoonlitTheft Thanks, I'm glad you've enjoyed them! Like I stated before in the video, I think that in all likelihood, Bethesda, in reality, did want Miraak to be the chronological first. However, I'm not a huge fan of your idea that they didn't need to write more for him when one line of dialogue or text from another perspective would've been enough. Take a series like Dark Souls. Dark Souls has almost all of its stories told through the interpretation of items and NPC dialogue. Yet, even still, I have a better idea of who Gwyn was in that series than who Miraak is supposed to be in Skyrim. Bethesda did a poor job establishing him as The First Dragonborn in my eyes, and, if you take away anything from this video, I would hope it to be that, egardless of if you agree with him being the First Servant or not. Again though, thank you for the comment, always love to see people engaging with the material.
@elfofcourage
5 ай бұрын
Doesn’t Hermaes Mora imply that he is?
@benmccoy6417
2 ай бұрын
Alessia wasn't the first dragonborn nor was it akatosh who blessed her as akatosh was invented by her and people afterwords it was shezar rather who blessed her even the origin of the empire is flawed and contradictory the fact is miraak is the first dragonborn and because of this DLC it retcons the imperial religion as does the very existence of the player character like it or hate it it's the current cannon until Bethesda says so
@DoctorDoubt
5 ай бұрын
I have a hope and prediction. If you keep going as you are, when Elder Scrolls 6 releases in 17 years or so, your channel is going to explode. I just hope you don’t forget about Legends in all that newfound fame. Love the Vid!
@anniegerlach2563
6 күн бұрын
Love the energy. This is superb format
@Scowleasy
5 ай бұрын
Tl:dr “First Dragonborn” could mean: The 1st chronologically An honorific title I.e first as in the most powerful or “first among the Dragonborn” Some other third meaning. This main issue is Dragonborn could have had different meanings throughout history, as we can’t confirm if people like Reman or Alesia could absorb dragon souls. To me it seems like capital D Dragonborn are always significant to history in some way, with TLD being one such main character. People with dragon blood will probably exist after TLD, but likely won’t ever be in the spotlight in the same way again.
@PowerfulRift
2 ай бұрын
You’re bringing on Dr. Bart Herman? Inspiring philosophy invited him on. This is very surprising for an elder scrolls video.
@thinwhitedukestar
5 ай бұрын
As always, loved the video and definitely appreciate a fresh take on some (fairly) stale lore. I somewhat agree with you in my own headcanon of the "First Dragonborn" statement being a lie, but for different reasons. "Dovahkiin" is generally defined as a mortal with the blood and/or soul of a dragon, which becomes interesting if one leans into the idea about Ysgrammor, the Five Hundred Companions, etc from Atmora were actually Dragons - it's been awhile since I read about this theory and I can't remember if it's based on Kirkbride out-of-lore texts or whether it's heavily implied in an ingame text. Regardless what that leads me to consider is the fact that the early Nord settlers were all either dragons, dragons who gained humanoid forms, or somewhere in between. These dragon-nord people would then fit theoretically fit the definition of a Dovahkiin - a mortal with the blood/soul of a dragon. It's not a huge stretch to assume that those such as Miraak and Vahlok would also carry this early Dragonborn blood of the Atmorran settlers and thus Miraak is most certainly not the First Dragonborn, not even the first Dovahkiin Dragon Priest. Anyway, this is all my own personal theory but it's certainly an interesting discussion about who actually was the first Dragonborn, especially considering the pre-Skyrim lore of Alessia being the first to have the Dragon Blood. Either way, loved the video and please keep the lore content coming :)
@moviemaker2011z
2 ай бұрын
i think the claim is right that he is the first and i can explain why in a bit of a shorter time frame. mainly we know that alduin was suppose to "eat" the world and end the cycle, leading the universe to be born a new. we know that this has happened several times (or at least its implied to have happened). miraak's claim to be the first could simply be that he is the first in THIS cycle and that we the player character are the last of this cycle. being a servant to hermaus mora could give him access to information that we the player character could never access such as how he knew who we are, our estimated kill count of dragons, and if we beat alduin. so he would definitely know if we were the last or just one of many more to come. all im saying is that its easy to buy into the idea that we are simply the last dragonborn for this cycle and that when alduin returns (which we know for a fact he WILL) he will then fulfill his destiny of once again ending the cycle and bringing forth a new one where again dragon blood with be gifted to those who are worthy. its a stretch but its the most simplistic answer that ties in exactly with how bethesda structured the franchise. also it could be that miraak is saying hes the first to realize his ability to steal the souls of dragons and was the first to actually USE that ability to fight them. there could have been many before him they never knew they could slay a dragon and harness the power of their souls and its just that miraak figured it out and rolled with it. and let us not forget that to be a dragonborn you must have the blood of a dragon within you and as the game states OVER AND OVER again that the ability to absorb the soul of a dragon and shout with ease is what identifies you as a dragonborn. so again, miraak could have been near a dragon that died and absorbed its soul and realized that he is indeed that of legend and decided to use that power for evil. its not that hes the first dragonborn but the first to fully utilize the power he had and take the title. if anyone wants to debate this further i am more than happy to discuss it because this is honestly a fun topic and could lead to many new understandings of the lore.
@moviemaker2011z
2 ай бұрын
i just wanted to add that the dragonborn absorbs the souls of the dragons they slay and that those ones cannot be resurrected even by alduin himself and his immense power. because of the age that miraak lived in where people lived day and night serving the dragons its easy to assume nobody ever tried until the war started and miraak just happened to be the one there and discovered he could absorb their souls. its also likely that when alduin couldnt resurrect the ones he absorbed he started to understand that power he had and what he could be capable of. its no doubt that miraak is and will always be evil, he was never a good person at any point in his life. but even he had to have known that if he could get to aludin there was a chance to absorb his soul and harness near ultimate power which would have drove him to wanting to face off against him... i will also add that even if he had thought this it wouldnt have mattered. when we beat alduin we didnt absorb his soul, it went back to akatosh where one day alduin will of course return to do his damn job and there wont be a dragon born to stop him. so even if miraak fought alduin and even if he won, all it would have done was exactly what we did but many years sooner. just figured i would add that because im a doofus and forgot to mention it.
@gaspo2880
5 ай бұрын
I've always thought realms of Oblivion, especially Hermaeus Mora's are pockets aside from time (given that Akatosh's influence would not be present within, as well as all the texts Hermaeus has from both the past and the future timelines of Nirn). If we're assuming that Miraak became Dragonborn within Apocrytha, with guidance of Hermaeus Mora, there would not be any sensical chronoligical support for him being the First. We've had Elder Scrolls antagonists and many other characters be outright wrong about certain pieces of information (Mankar Camoran has called Coldharbour the realm of Meridia, likely attributed to his insanity). Miraak is likely not insane, but there is definitely a lot of unfounded pride in himself that seemingly comes from nowhere. Aside from being Dragonborn, Miraak historically has done nothing but lose and is practically imprisoned in Apocrytha. It may sound silly, but I genuinely think calling himself the first (maintaining his pride) may be what's keeping him from going insane from Mora's influence + all the Ls he's taken.
@theemerdareloth
5 ай бұрын
Miraak is the King of Ls
@Gothmog3019
4 ай бұрын
I think the most likely thing is that Miraak was the first one to realize the power of dragon-born. the player doesn't even know until we kill a dragon, i think Mirrak was the first to have the powers of a dragons born, if not the first too be given the blood; the first Dragon-Born but not the first Dovakin. He may have discovered this ability after his betrayal, upon killing his own first dragon.
@coeal2680
3 күн бұрын
Just as it is cannon for the Hero of Cyrodill became the mad god Sheogorath, i think they should continue this in the games, making it cannon that the Dovakin became the servant of Hermaeus
@striker8961
12 күн бұрын
At first I thought this all would be very underwhelming, but having the prophecy mention what is probably canonically the last things the Dragonborn does and their ultimate fate is quite fitting.
@spyrofrost9158
18 күн бұрын
I'd find it strange that an Elder Scroll would use 'first and last' specifically in reference to service to Hermeaus Mora, but then again those pieces of paper have probably said much weirder things.
@imperialwarden5113
24 күн бұрын
I'm so glad I found this video cuz I recently saw a video where someone visited apocrypha and defeated miraak. In that video he calls himself the first Dragonborn. I question if that was actually true cuz I don't remember any lore book or script saying he was. Awesome lore and great video and format!
@animateddysfunction
5 ай бұрын
damn impressive video. using a New Testament scholar explanation for historical documents, statements, and applying a method for understanding accuracy was a brilliant touch. you're take on the meanings of "first" and "last" is also cleaver. please keep it up!
@Princess_Celestia_
Ай бұрын
18:14 I think its far more likely that you're just over thinking things and reaching conclusions from non-existent evidence. We saw this same thing play out IRL all the time with Fenn treasure hunters overthinking Fenn's poem. A lot of them just couldn't except that "Were warm waters halt" was referecing a hotspring feeding into a river or stream thus pointing at Yellowstone National Park as the location the treasure was hidden (thats where it was actually found, by the by). Which had them looking in every location where water was too cold for warm water fish to live and all other wacky locations that made no sense. Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the correct explanation, Mirrik is the literal first dragonborn to exist, the player character is the last dragonborn to exist in that moment, its really just that simple.
@RevanX77
Ай бұрын
Why exactly do you have such a contention with the idea that Miraak was the first Dragonborn? I mean you say "We can't substantiate this!" for his first-hand claim that he was the first Dragonborn, but later in the video you take Sabinius calling Miraak "First Servant" as proof that Miraak was the first Dragonborn servant of Hermaeus Mora, despite Sabinius' claim also being both unsubstantiated and also vague? Couldn't you take that simply to mean that Miraak was foremost of all servants of Hermaeus Mora? This whole video reads like motivated reasoning, just the construction of a narrative in order to support an idea.
@iainhansen1047
16 күн бұрын
As always elder scrolls fans manage to make better lore then Bethesda
@TheGreatestJediOfAllTime
11 күн бұрын
Bethesda owning the elder scrolls and fallout ips is a travesty in my opinion.
@Palemagpie
Ай бұрын
Would totally track that being Dovakiin is like a rare. But not wholly unique mutation in the races of men & mer. Like green eyes, or down syndrome. Both. Have occured multiple times in human history. And still occur with regular frequency in humanity. Not everyone with green eyes. Or a chromosomal disorder is related. However unique spontaneous mutations also do exist. To stick with eyes as the example. Blue eyes in human beings are a spontaneous single generation mutation. Everyone alive today with blue eyes. Can trace a direct ancestry to a singular source. Its the same with colourblindness. There are several types of colourblindness, but each was a spontaneous single generation mutation. Those conditions independently occurred only once.
@justyce_yt
2 ай бұрын
The Elder Scrolls lore is based on hundreds of unreliable narrators. And what we experience in the games. Quite similar to reality! The only "lore" we have on the real world is what we learn from (un)reliable sources and what we experience. It's kinda fun :D
@striker8961
12 күн бұрын
"The First Servant" sounds to me much more likely to mean he is the highest ranked servant, and or the first servant to ever serve him.
@egrojasecd511
Ай бұрын
I don't think Miraak was actually the first dragonborn, because then the story of Saint Alessia is just a big lie. Writing this I realized that if there were actually dragonborn before Miraak, the story of Saint Alessia being the first dragonborn isn't true, which aligns what the video says, Miraak is the first dragonborn to serve Hermaeus Mora therefore Alessia is the first Dragonborn who was a human emperor, or something like that.
@Betrr
2 ай бұрын
Miraak being the first dragonborn to serve herma mora implies that there were others, except the player character of skyrim replaces miraak making miraak the only dragonborn to serve herma mora up until the events of the dlc so the ESO note wouldnt really make sense if the word "first" meant the first dragonborn to serve herma mora. Unless there were others that served him but never replaced Miraak which wouldnt make sense because if herma mora did have more than one dragonborn he wouldve wanted to replace miraak as soon as possible because miraak's been trying to escape since forever. it would make more sense that the "first" in the ESO note referred to miraak being the first dragonborn since dragon borns in general are very famous people and they would be easily recognizable but that would imply that the guy who wrote it lived long enough to see multiple dragonborns being born and we don't really know the frequency of when akatosh decides to create dragonborns It's a cool theory but i dont buy it. cool video tho i liked it
@johannestruppel7639
2 ай бұрын
Describing the Protagonist of Skyrim only in relation to when they served Hermaeus Mora, is in my opinion a gros overstatement of this service, in the grand scheme of things, diminishing their service to akatosh, Talos and the world. I think it is far more likely, that the Protagonist is indeed the last Dragonborn ever, or that he would have been the last, if he had not succeeded in stopping Alduin. However, if it is true, that Miraak is the onlyone to truely describe himself as the first Dragonborn, I can see, how he would describe himself that, meaning foremost among Dragonborns, as a Sign of his Arrogance. Possibly he might even describe the Protagonist as the last Dragonborn, meaning the least among them, as an insult. He might also mean first to serve Mora, because that is defining for his character. I also have a diffrent perspective to offer, that Akatoshs blessing is not distributed linearly in time, but that from the timeless perspective of a God, Miraak could be the first and the Protagonist be the last to be blessed as Dragonborn, while People in the Past, present and future, might be blessed inbetween them, only in a cosmic sense.
@canadianidiot1220
Ай бұрын
I always figred it was temporal but used for the dragornborns that are meant to fight alduin. Mirrak was the first dragonborn meant to kill alduin and ours is the one that ends him. There are rumors of mutliple dragonborns being around at the same time. I remember hearing about another dragonborn being there around the time of Talos founding the empire. As such, its possible that, as a dragon priest, mirrak killed other dragonborns beant to kill alduin before the world eater was sealed away.
@dowekeller
2 ай бұрын
I don't think there's any mention of dragonborn having a more powerful thuum, just a more convenient method of learning them. There were many powerful tounges in those days, judging from the nord conquest of Morowind.
@DD-mp1kl
Ай бұрын
as much as the elder scrolls can change, at least they are neutral/unbiased. Which is still a much more trustworthy source than Miraak just saying "dude trust me".
@arglebargle42
2 ай бұрын
Ok great video till you called Bart Ehrman 'well respected in his field', now your channel is blocked.
@absWoWleanrstoplay
5 ай бұрын
The last dragonborn doesn't necessarily have the blood of a dragon (15:05), but he possesses the soul of one. The last dragon-blood that possessed the blood of a dragon was Martin, which he used his blood to become the avatar of Akatosh and drive Mehrunes Dagon out, preventing him from merging his realm with the player's. Good video though
@ravindunandirathna1600
5 ай бұрын
LDB has the blood of Dragon. That's how he opens the seal of sky heaven temple. Further more Arengir, Paarthurnax and even gods like Tsun says the LDB has dragon blood.
@anti-lifeequation1683
5 ай бұрын
@@ravindunandirathna1600 Some of these people need to know their lore before they start to think about cooking.
@MultiSpeedMetal
3 ай бұрын
When was the last time you replayed Skyrim’s main quest? You’re just blatantly wrong. We can argue about whether some Dragonborn only have the blood while another type has blood and soul (I think that’s bullshit) but at the very least both have the dragon blood.
@truerebel5467
2 ай бұрын
No, there are two types of dragonborn. The ones that are gifted with the blood (either by pact or being an offspring) and the ones that have both blood and soul (True dragonborn which are prophesized, Wulfharth, Tiber Septim, Miraak, TLD). It's even obvious when you kill miraak because after you slay him you take his soul and guess what happens? He disintegrates like every other dragon.
@absWoWleanrstoplay
Ай бұрын
@MultiSpeedMetal wow great argument 👏, good input
@thejokerz9751
Ай бұрын
I would like to see more Of this Content on the this channel Especially since I'm A noob to the Lord
@omegagilgamesh
3 ай бұрын
"'An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' is an adage I'm sure we're all aware of." Maybe for people who frequent this channel. Half the people in my town probably can't give a definition for 'adage,' let alone survive the brain aneurysm from trying to interpret the words of that adage. To them, convenience is the only proof that exists, they just hide it behind (really, REALLY poor) semantics.
@AudreyStryder222
2 ай бұрын
The dragonborn is a being able to devour dragon souls. He does this- we see it. He's a dragon born. Case closed
@jameshagler3620
Ай бұрын
I was not expecting Dr. Erhman or Within Reason to appear in a Skyrim video
@iIVIakeitRainXO
10 күн бұрын
This is very interesting I love Skyrim lore, just to play devils advocate though, could it be as simple as miraak was the first person to call himself Dragonborn?
@iIVIakeitRainXO
9 күн бұрын
As in maybe the concept Dragonborn was made by Miraak
@nickboon1235
9 күн бұрын
Love how they gave Miraak an offbrand darth vader voice
@coronin8587
5 ай бұрын
I genuinely doubt that Bethesda thought so much into it as Miraak lying about being the first Dragonborn. I find it much more likely that, as with the majority of Skyrim’s depiction of TES lore, they just forgot/retconned pre-established material for the sakes of a “cool story.” When something like Dragonbreaks, essentially in-universe retcons, are introduced into a medium, you start to see how lazy the writers are at keeping everything straight.
@avvc21
25 күн бұрын
Bad take. I will not elaborate
@coronin8587
25 күн бұрын
@@avvc21 Your opinion, and neither shall I.
@avvc21
25 күн бұрын
@@coronin8587 good talking to you. Have a lovely week
@chief_tobias_
2 ай бұрын
Lmao, using Bart Erhman to prove (or disprove) Miraak.
@kaworunagisa4009
5 ай бұрын
About LDB serving Mora. I wonder how the Daedric Princes are going to share, because LDB can potentially be a champion for all of them, or at least all of the ones used in Skyrim. And if LDB is a werewolf or a vampire, imo, Hircine or Molag Bal have a far more substantial claim to their soul than the old Herma-Mora.
@Khoros-Mythos
5 ай бұрын
I think in 2011 the Last Dragonborn was supposed to be the literal last dragonborn, in 2012 Miraak was probably the literal first dragonborn. But as we've seen with ESO profit will come before lore every time, so it wouldn't be surprising if Bethesda/Zenimax retconned it to sell more pixels in the crown store.
@theemerdareloth
5 ай бұрын
"Sell more pixels on the Crown Store" is a phrase in going to have to adopt soon here.
@brucenbrooklyn
Ай бұрын
I may never live to see an elder scrolls game like this again
@unicyclepeon
5 ай бұрын
The lore in ESO is all over the map, in both quality, purpose, and logic. So I find a singular note like this to be unconvincing. To the point that I prefer the mystery, over the new lore, in this case. But I appreciate the video. Good stuff.
@gamesretweets9979
Ай бұрын
Princeps. First among Equals.
@dylanium5755
5 ай бұрын
I was so thrown seeing Bart Ehrman in an Elder Scrolls video! Good move though
@Princess_Celestia_
Ай бұрын
17:17 Bit of a stretch. The "first servant" denotes there are other servants. As far as we know, he only ever had the 1 dragonborn as a servant up to that time, so if this "first servant" is referrencing him being the first dragonborn to serve him, it wouldn't make sense to call him the "first servant" until after the last dragonborn comes into Hermaes's service. Like I said, a bit of a stretch.
@OLR1337
3 күн бұрын
i dont think its a stretch in the sense that its not the meaning of the text shown around 17:00 - i think bethesda put in that text to make the "first dragonborn" actuqlly make sense, although bethesda themselves are stretching language to do so
@andyduke6119
5 ай бұрын
1. I never expected to see Bart Ehrman in a video game lore video. 2. My college Lit professor asked why we should objectively trust a character's POV. That stuck with me.
@ruperterskin2117
Ай бұрын
Appreciate ya. Thanks for sharing.
@perryneum778
Ай бұрын
Hey Dareloth, thank you so much I LOVE your lore videos, they are top notch!
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
That means a lot to hear, thank you so much!
@pieceofbread5686
5 ай бұрын
The whole Hermeaus Mora stuff makes no sense at all. There is no reason to believe that the titles of "First Servant" and "First Dragonborn" have any connection at all. "First Servant" clearly just means highest servant of Hermaeus Mora, as you have already mentioned that "first" is often used in this way. I see no connection between the two titles. Also, it is true that just by him calling himself the "First Dragonborn", we do not actually know what use of the word "first" Miraak meant, but the quote goes "And so the First Dragonborn meets the Last Dragonborn at the summit of Apocrypha," which, by usage of both "first" and "last" implies to me that he actually means this in a chronological sense. So, is he actually the chronological first Dragonborn? Maybe. He could, of course, be lying, or he could really be the first Dragonborn, or maybe he is the first Dragonborn to his own knowledge. Maybe "First Dragonborn" is just a way to say "First Known Dragonborn", or "First Recorded Dragonborn".
@friedrichfreigeist3292
5 ай бұрын
He just cites Bart Ehrman just like that. Based.
@metalmaria26
Ай бұрын
I thought Alessia was the first Akatosh blessed with dragon blood.
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
That will be touched on soon
@AbaddonTheSlightlyConfused
4 ай бұрын
Honestly i always thought it was weird that he calls himself first. I alway thought St. Alessia was the first dragon born. Though most dragon born emperors can't shout if I'm not mistaken
@AssassinBunny107
Ай бұрын
So are you an actual historian outside of youtube? Because man these videos are immensely professional and increbily well structured. First video of yours I watched was the Mankar Camoran one and watched it about 5 times. Love the videos man! Would you ever consider doing a video based on the Arcturian Heresy?
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
I do have a Bachelor's Degree [Majored in History, Minored in Philosophy], but I don't do it as a profession.
@AssassinBunny107
Ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth it really shows man! Keep up the fantastic work cant wait for your video on the Last Dragonborn 👍
@Mankorra_Gomorrah
2 ай бұрын
One of the things I love the most about elder scrolls is stuff like this. The community is, in a sense, part of the universe taking evidence from the games and forming theories and ideas based on it and then discussing them together. The players are also the scholars and researchers that can occasionally be found in books in game.
@zinc657
2 ай бұрын
Sorry but bethesda aint that deep
@TheSlackerNamedJack
2 ай бұрын
I think early on you said you were asking for a critique. Let's just start with I love the videos so you got the sub. I do find like this weird dissonance between your background audience and your voice I don't know if just your microphone is set to be too loud or your oration style is kind of dissimilar to... Feels a little bit like you a professor and a little less like a narrator. Maybe both? But I look forward tomorrow videos
@theemerdareloth
2 ай бұрын
@TheSlackerNamedJack Appreciate the feedback. Audio has always been my biggest issue. I don't really have a great mic to begin with. Trying to get better at it though!
@TheSlackerNamedJack
2 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth No problem. I do apologize about the typos. I use voice to text and It's not quite all the way there
@Parakasha0
Ай бұрын
I was really liking this video, though I would have preferred you read the text from ESO rather than have an AI do it for you. Some good points nonetheless!
@theemerdareloth
Ай бұрын
@Parakasha0 Yeah, I know, I don't do that anymore. Thank you!
@Parakasha0
Ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth That's awesome to hear! I really enjoyed your scholastic lens in contrast to many of the other perspectives out there, so I'm looking forward to more!
@InfiniteStyler
5 ай бұрын
The first doesn't matter... Only the last.
@Pakshee_C
3 ай бұрын
I'm actually not convinced. The note about the first servant is no undeniable proof. There 'first' could be an honorary title like a first lady. Or the first mortal sevant (or actually first servant if Moras daedra dont count because he created them and are like clever drones or slt). I think he is in fact the first dragonborn. It could be a concept Akatosh invented to stop the rogue Alduin. (And skyrim has end-of-the-kalpa-vibes anyway. Maybe it will end soon and there will be more dragonborns in the next world). And I also like the twist more of Alessia being the first dragonborn aaaall this years and then it turns out there was a secret truely first dragonborn that became evil. And bringing the meaning of words into question can be applied to a lot of thing. 'We dont know what there words meant' is ... not a strong evidence in my mind. 'I am Alduin, first born of akatosh (in the year 0 era 5 and I have lots of older siblings)'. 'These are the closing days of the 3rd era... and the final hours of my life. But my Life is being the emperor. I simply stop ruling and survive in secret in the sewers' I found your channel today and I like your videos but this simply didnt convince me🤭 Mannimarco the first lich isnt the real first lich was ok (although I think the dragonpriest are no liches and still alive in lore, but thats not the point).
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
Thank you! Means a lot!
@theemerdareloth
3 ай бұрын
I was also mowing the lawn during my first message, so I just wanted to reply quickly before, so I remembered to follow up with you. I'm totally open to my Miraak theory being incorrect. I fully submit that the developers intention was almost certainly to have him be the first chronically. However, they did a poor job providing a reason to believe him. They needed a second piece of evidence in my mind, and this theory is essentially a fun alternative idea that works within the evidence provided, but it also does rely a bit on interpretation. Thanks again for the great comment. Love to see people engaging with the videos.
@Pakshee_C
3 ай бұрын
@@theemerdareloth it reminded me a bit of the thu'um in general. They did a bad Job there too (or i dont get it). Paarthurnax first taught humans the thuum to fight the dragons but all draugr dragon loyal draugr do it as well 🫤
@Crow_Rising
10 күн бұрын
Regarding the matter of whether The Last Dragonborn is truly the last chronologically, there's something interesting I think needs to be pointed out. There's a philosophical conversation TLD has with Paarthunax regarding whether it's even morally correct to stop Alduin. Paarthunax makes the case that perhaps it is simply the current world's time and the next would should be allowed to "hatch" and experience life. One of TLD's options is to take the stance that the next world will have to take care of itself, implying that it is each world's responsibility to take care of itself and that when presented with the end it's not wrong to fight back against it for preservation. A sort of rebellion against fate, you could say. The point I'm getting at is that it's entirely possible that this point in time really was meant to be the end, but the very existence of TLD was Akatosh's way of giving the world a chance to defy that fate and continue on unscripted. From this point on everything could be completely free to play out unforetold should TLD's quest prove successful. In this way, TLD would only be "The last" in the sense that they were the last prophesized, not necessarily the last in general. Extending this logic to Miraak, it could very well be that there were other Dragonborn before him, but they had nothing to do with prophecy. They lived out rather unimportant lives accomplishing nothing of note and were unrecorded in any Elder Scroll prophecy or in any historical documentation. This would mean therefore that he was simply the first to have a prophecy attached to him. The first of notoriety. Regarding the possibility of Miraak's usage of "The first" being in reference to him being the first to serve Hermaeus Mora, he also in the same breath refers to the player character as "The last", and this is the same language used in the prophecy to describe them. Because of this, I think it's unlikely that this is what Miraak means. If it did somehow reference this, it would mean that Hermaeus will never get another Dragonborn to serve him again, which seems unlikely given his capabilities and doesn't at all seem to be what the prophecy is talking about. Rather, when Miraak discusses "The first meets the last", it seems more that he's talking Dragonborn to Dragonborn, not Servant to Servant. Regarding the usage of the phrase "The first servant" in TSO, it's rather unlikely that Miraak was chronologically the first person to ever serve Hermaeus in general, so this phrase is likely in reference to him being the most powerful and/or important, the first that would be called on to handle important tasks.. This does also hint towards the possibility of Miraak discussing power as opposed to chronological order. He could hold the belief that he is the most powerful Dragonborn to ever exist, and that so far TLD is the least powerful. If he were to make a list ranking Dragonborns in order from most to least powerful, he would be the first and TLD would be the last. If it were to turn out the timeline chronology wasn't what was being discussed, this is the hypothesis I would gravitate to. It makes sense for him to hold this viewpoint because TLD is the most recent to have ever existed, and so in Miraak's eyes could be the most green. However, it is still only a possibility and not anything grounded in solid fact.
@uh9104
Күн бұрын
Hold up remember valhok didn’t fight mirrak alone he had help of mutiple dragons that mirrak had to kill before killing him. Which we know as we can count the dragon dead body’s
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